1 00:00:07,230 --> 00:00:10,500 Matt Edmundson: Well, hello and welcome to the e-Commerce podcast 2 00:00:10,500 --> 00:00:12,360 with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:12,750 --> 00:00:17,310 The E-Commerce podcast is all about helping you deliver e-commerce. 4 00:00:17,315 --> 00:00:17,820 Wow. 5 00:00:17,850 --> 00:00:20,880 And to help us do just that today. 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,510 I'm chatting with my very special guest, Brandon Amoroso from electriq 7 00:00:26,759 --> 00:00:33,795 about how to increase your customer retention: the ultimate guide. 8 00:00:33,885 --> 00:00:34,455 Oh, yes. 9 00:00:34,695 --> 00:00:38,235 Uh, but before Brandon and I jump into that, let me suggest a few other 10 00:00:38,265 --> 00:00:41,835 e-commerce podcast episodes that I think you'll enjoy listening to. 11 00:00:42,345 --> 00:00:47,234 Uh, check out maximizing the lifetime value of a customer with Valentin Radu. 12 00:00:47,625 --> 00:00:48,644 Uh, that was a great episode. 13 00:00:48,644 --> 00:00:50,175 Valentin's such a top bloke. 14 00:00:50,504 --> 00:00:52,389 Uh, and the other episode you should check out. 15 00:00:52,529 --> 00:00:57,120 Is customer value optimization, the real silver bullet of e-commerce 16 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,570 with the legendary Will Laurenson. 17 00:00:58,589 --> 00:01:03,360 You can check out both of those episodes along with our entire of 18 00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:08,429 archives of episodes, uh, on our website for free at e-commerce podcast.net. 19 00:01:08,700 --> 00:01:09,960 I like to say this every week. 20 00:01:10,020 --> 00:01:14,250 Uh, Brandon, I'm always amazed by how many people check out past episodes, 21 00:01:14,250 --> 00:01:16,200 you know, going back years, uh mm-hmm. 22 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,080 and, um, looking at those stats so you can see all of. 23 00:01:19,770 --> 00:01:20,880 On the website, they're still there. 24 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,050 You can still listen to them. 25 00:01:22,470 --> 00:01:22,800 Now. 26 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:27,149 This episode is brought to you by the e-commerce cohort, which 27 00:01:27,149 --> 00:01:29,429 helps you deliver e-commerce wow. 28 00:01:29,429 --> 00:01:31,400 To your customers. 29 00:01:32,235 --> 00:01:34,005 Now, here's the question, right? 30 00:01:34,035 --> 00:01:37,455 How do you stay on top of things in a way that works for you 31 00:01:37,455 --> 00:01:38,895 and your eCommerce business? 32 00:01:38,895 --> 00:01:42,705 Because there's always so much to learn about eCommerce given 33 00:01:42,705 --> 00:01:44,625 the rate and speed of change. 34 00:01:45,045 --> 00:01:47,835 Hence, we now have the eCommerce cohort. 35 00:01:47,865 --> 00:01:51,795 It is a lightweight membership group with guided monthly sprints at cycle 36 00:01:51,795 --> 00:01:54,885 through all the key areas of e-commerce. 37 00:01:55,304 --> 00:01:58,514 So if you're working by yourself, whether, if you're working in a team, 38 00:01:58,725 --> 00:02:02,654 it's gonna help you stay on top of what is going on in the market and 39 00:02:02,654 --> 00:02:04,824 how it applies for your business. 40 00:02:05,054 --> 00:02:08,535 It gives you clear and actionable jobs to be done, so you'll know 41 00:02:08,535 --> 00:02:11,325 what to work on and you'll get the support to get it done that you need. 42 00:02:11,329 --> 00:02:13,424 So whether you're just starting out in e-commerce or. 43 00:02:14,235 --> 00:02:17,955 You may be like me, a bit of a dinosaur, someone who's been in e-commerce for 44 00:02:18,185 --> 00:02:22,035 a really long time, a well established e-commercer as we like to say. 45 00:02:22,395 --> 00:02:28,365 I encourage you to definitely check out ecommercecohort.com, or you can email 46 00:02:28,365 --> 00:02:34,245 me directly, matt@ecommercepodcast.net with any questions that you may have. 47 00:02:35,215 --> 00:02:35,705 Okay. 48 00:02:36,910 --> 00:02:37,810 Let's get into it. 49 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:44,290 Brandon is the founder and CEO of Electriq, A drinks company that scales 50 00:02:44,290 --> 00:02:49,600 brands with profitable e-commerce models built from innovative proprietary 51 00:02:49,630 --> 00:02:54,610 methods powered by the freedom and individuality of the Gen Z mindset. 52 00:02:54,890 --> 00:02:59,770 Electriq has fueled over 35 in-house specialists in a range of 53 00:02:59,770 --> 00:03:05,510 growth focus strategies, including email, SMS marketing, SEO, content 54 00:03:05,510 --> 00:03:12,740 marketing, paid acquisition web design and development, and basically 55 00:03:13,020 --> 00:03:14,240 a whole range of other things. 56 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,880 So, uh, I'm excited to have this conversation with Brandon. 57 00:03:16,885 --> 00:03:18,200 Brandon, welcome to the show. 58 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:19,160 It's great to have you here. 59 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:21,830 Thanks for joining me here on the e-Commerce Podcast. 60 00:03:23,055 --> 00:03:23,415 Brandon Amoroso: Of course. 61 00:03:23,415 --> 00:03:24,075 Thanks for having me. 62 00:03:24,435 --> 00:03:24,975 Matt Edmundson: Oh, no worries. 63 00:03:24,975 --> 00:03:30,795 Now you are hailing in from, uh, Miami, Florida right now, which is no doubt gonna 64 00:03:30,795 --> 00:03:35,715 have much warmer weather than, uh, what I've got here in, uh, well at least it's 65 00:03:35,715 --> 00:03:37,545 sunny, sunny Liverpool here in the uk. 66 00:03:37,545 --> 00:03:40,005 So, uh, but you were mentioning you're off to Toronto. 67 00:03:40,285 --> 00:03:41,184 Uh, fairly soon. 68 00:03:41,184 --> 00:03:44,035 So you're gonna have colder climates very, very shortly, right? 69 00:03:44,545 --> 00:03:45,174 Brandon Amoroso: Yes. 70 00:03:45,394 --> 00:03:49,315 Fortunately though I will only be there for about four nights, so I won't 71 00:03:49,315 --> 00:03:50,424 have to deal with it for too long. 72 00:03:52,225 --> 00:03:54,804 Matt Edmundson: like, yeah, just keep telling yourself when it's cold. 73 00:03:54,804 --> 00:03:56,424 You just, it's only a few more nights to go. 74 00:03:56,424 --> 00:03:57,625 It's only a few more nights to go. 75 00:03:57,625 --> 00:03:58,644 I should escape soon. 76 00:03:59,274 --> 00:04:01,614 Uh, welcome to the show, uh, Brandon. 77 00:04:01,614 --> 00:04:04,165 Tell me about electriq, uh, and what it does. 78 00:04:04,195 --> 00:04:05,035 What's your company? 79 00:04:06,135 --> 00:04:08,715 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah, so we're a Shopify Plus agency that 80 00:04:08,715 --> 00:04:10,995 specializes in retention marketing. 81 00:04:11,385 --> 00:04:16,905 So say almost 90% of the time we're working with our clients on their email 82 00:04:16,910 --> 00:04:20,835 and sms, uh, marketing specifically, uh, the automations within their 83 00:04:20,835 --> 00:04:26,085 Klaviyo accounts, uh, helping them understand how like segmentation and 84 00:04:26,085 --> 00:04:31,965 personalization of that can increase and improve, uh, retention and ltv. 85 00:04:32,550 --> 00:04:35,130 And then second is web design and development. 86 00:04:35,219 --> 00:04:39,090 So really anything customer experience related, uh, from the 87 00:04:39,090 --> 00:04:43,409 moment that they begin that checkout process all the way through, uh, 88 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,150 making their subsequent orders. 89 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,960 That's where we step in and help brands navigate, uh, the Shopify 90 00:04:48,990 --> 00:04:52,090 ecosystem, all the tools that they should or should not be using. 91 00:04:52,530 --> 00:04:56,115 And then deploying that across email and SMS and their website. 92 00:04:56,625 --> 00:04:57,075 Matt Edmundson: Wow. 93 00:04:57,125 --> 00:04:59,175 There's, there's a lot going on there. 94 00:04:59,415 --> 00:05:03,885 Um, have, is this your, uh, how, how long has Electriq been around? 95 00:05:03,890 --> 00:05:06,795 Is this a, a fairly new venture or has it been around a few years? 96 00:05:08,085 --> 00:05:08,295 Uh, 97 00:05:08,295 --> 00:05:13,215 Brandon Amoroso: a couple years, but I, I was freelancing in like 2017 and 2018, 98 00:05:13,725 --> 00:05:15,945 uh, just for small Shopify businesses. 99 00:05:15,945 --> 00:05:21,540 And then, uh, Electriq officially launched about mid 2019. 100 00:05:21,780 --> 00:05:21,870 Mm-hmm. 101 00:05:22,275 --> 00:05:26,520 . And then, um, we were acquired back in April this year. 102 00:05:26,820 --> 00:05:26,940 Oh wow. 103 00:05:26,940 --> 00:05:32,280 By, uh, by a beverage technology company, uh, who was entering the Shopify space 104 00:05:32,460 --> 00:05:38,230 with their, um, own tax and compliance app for alcohol merchants to be able 105 00:05:38,230 --> 00:05:39,470 to ship across the united states. 106 00:05:39,860 --> 00:05:44,684 So it was stylized as a Shopify for wine, and that launched 107 00:05:44,684 --> 00:05:46,484 about six, seven weeks ago now. 108 00:05:46,905 --> 00:05:48,674 So now we have the agency running. 109 00:05:48,914 --> 00:05:52,965 Um, but then that's another sort of business unit that I'm focused on as well. 110 00:05:53,474 --> 00:05:53,864 Matt Edmundson: Wow. 111 00:05:54,405 --> 00:05:56,655 So you, you set up a business three years ago. 112 00:05:56,655 --> 00:06:00,705 You get it acquired this year by, uh, drinks, I think it was drinks.com, 113 00:06:00,765 --> 00:06:01,575 uh, bought out your mm-hmm. 114 00:06:02,025 --> 00:06:04,905 , um, bought out your agency, but you are still involved. 115 00:06:04,905 --> 00:06:07,264 That's all part of the, uh, the deal of the sale? 116 00:06:08,794 --> 00:06:09,034 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah. 117 00:06:09,034 --> 00:06:16,860 So from a day to day standpoint, um, I was already in the process of, um, 118 00:06:16,950 --> 00:06:24,315 putting in sort of a, a VP and up, uh, level across electriq so that I 119 00:06:24,315 --> 00:06:27,885 wasn't running around doing 10,000 things every day and could focus more 120 00:06:27,885 --> 00:06:30,225 on like the, the long term strategy. 121 00:06:30,555 --> 00:06:35,895 So I'd say more and more of my time is being spent on, uh, the app and 122 00:06:36,045 --> 00:06:41,145 acceleration and adoption of it within, uh, the Shopify ecosystem, doing events, 123 00:06:41,175 --> 00:06:45,135 putting together all the content and resources, building things out like the 124 00:06:45,195 --> 00:06:50,305 help desk, uh, all the stuff that comes with being a Shopify Plus certified app. 125 00:06:50,825 --> 00:06:56,035 Um, so it's been fun because I've been learning a lot along the way and. 126 00:06:57,105 --> 00:06:58,995 I still get to have the agency as well. 127 00:06:58,995 --> 00:07:00,855 So it's sort of the, the best of both worlds. 128 00:07:01,335 --> 00:07:04,275 Matt Edmundson: I was gonna say, it's interesting because you, we don't have 129 00:07:04,275 --> 00:07:08,055 many people on the show that have been bought out as recently as you have. 130 00:07:08,625 --> 00:07:12,405 Um, and you've gone from this sort of transition, which starts life as a 131 00:07:12,405 --> 00:07:18,525 freelancer to running an agency, um, quite a rapidly growing agency by the 132 00:07:18,525 --> 00:07:23,175 sounds of it, with the team size that you have, um, to then being acquired. 133 00:07:23,175 --> 00:07:24,055 So now you are. 134 00:07:25,105 --> 00:07:27,115 I guess you're employed by drinks.com. 135 00:07:27,115 --> 00:07:31,075 You know, you've, you've sort of gone the full gamut of, of, uh, of sort 136 00:07:31,075 --> 00:07:36,355 of statuses here, haven't you, from freelancer to CEO to, you know, working 137 00:07:36,355 --> 00:07:38,685 with a, within a larger organization. 138 00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:40,255 How have you found that whole transition? 139 00:07:41,635 --> 00:07:44,215 Brandon Amoroso: Um, there's definitely pros and cons. 140 00:07:44,365 --> 00:07:51,265 Um, I inherently just have an entrepreneurial spirit, I would say, 141 00:07:51,535 --> 00:07:57,120 And so the, the nice thing about drinks is that it is still sort of scrappy 142 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:58,830 and, and has that startup mindset. 143 00:07:59,039 --> 00:07:59,159 Mm-hmm. 144 00:07:59,620 --> 00:08:03,270 and being a part of the executive team there still allows me to have 145 00:08:03,270 --> 00:08:08,070 some, uh, autonomy and, and decision making sort of power that goes into it. 146 00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:11,370 Though obviously it's not the same as it was with the electriq because 147 00:08:11,375 --> 00:08:16,440 that was just a hundred percent me and, um, there wasn't necessarily 148 00:08:16,979 --> 00:08:21,659 as much, uh, red tape as you get when you start to get into larger. 149 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:27,840 Uh, in larger organizations, but, um, I don't think the transition has been, has 150 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,740 been too difficult, especially because they were, they were a client of ours. 151 00:08:31,830 --> 00:08:35,700 Um, and that's sort of how this whole thing came to be. 152 00:08:35,789 --> 00:08:36,659 So already comfortable. 153 00:08:36,809 --> 00:08:38,309 Familiar with, with working with them. 154 00:08:38,580 --> 00:08:39,070 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 155 00:08:39,070 --> 00:08:41,640 I figured you must be if you'd, if you'd sold to them. 156 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,330 But it's interesting that actually the sale came to an existing client. 157 00:08:45,335 --> 00:08:48,060 They'd obviously, they'd used your services and gone, No, we, we wanna 158 00:08:48,065 --> 00:08:49,470 bring this more full-time in-house. 159 00:08:49,950 --> 00:08:52,844 Um, I've seen that actually quite a few times. 160 00:08:52,905 --> 00:08:56,085 Uh, bigger companies, they'll go to agencies, they'll use agencies, and 161 00:08:56,090 --> 00:08:57,464 then they'll end up buying the agency. 162 00:08:58,035 --> 00:09:01,275 Um, which is, is quite an interesting strategy, I think, from 163 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:02,895 corporations to do that these days. 164 00:09:03,525 --> 00:09:08,745 Um, customer retention, uh, is technically what we're talking about. 165 00:09:08,745 --> 00:09:10,755 So let's, um, let's dig into that. 166 00:09:10,755 --> 00:09:16,695 So, um, how did you end up sort of getting involved in customer retention? 167 00:09:16,695 --> 00:09:19,965 So you talked about email and SMS and the segmentation and 168 00:09:20,025 --> 00:09:21,135 helping customers with that. 169 00:09:21,135 --> 00:09:25,395 Was that um, something that was very intentional or was that something that was 170 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,495 kind of accidental getting involved with? 171 00:09:28,995 --> 00:09:29,925 Brandon Amoroso: I think a little bit of both. 172 00:09:30,375 --> 00:09:36,945 I never really enjoyed, um, the paid media side of things, everything. 173 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:41,220 Facebook ads, the TikTok ads never was something that I could 174 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,020 really get passionate about. 175 00:09:43,260 --> 00:09:43,350 Mm-hmm. 176 00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:49,590 . Um, and then as I saw Claviyo sort of continue to rise within the Shopify 177 00:09:49,620 --> 00:09:51,630 ecosystem, all the integrations. 178 00:09:52,575 --> 00:09:56,565 Um, amongst the various app providers as well and how they all sort of 179 00:09:56,865 --> 00:10:01,875 came together in Klaviyo as the central hub of data on each customer. 180 00:10:02,235 --> 00:10:04,065 That was a lot more interesting to me. 181 00:10:04,215 --> 00:10:09,045 Um, the ability to create these personalized experiences at scale 182 00:10:09,285 --> 00:10:13,694 by leveraging various different tool sets to get data plugged into Klaviyo 183 00:10:13,755 --> 00:10:15,105 that you could then create it off of. 184 00:10:15,495 --> 00:10:22,439 So, uh, we actually stopped doing anything to do with paid acquisition, uh, in 2021 185 00:10:22,620 --> 00:10:25,500 and moved entirely into just retention. 186 00:10:26,010 --> 00:10:30,900 And um, that was definitely a great transition for us because not only did 187 00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:35,250 it make our team more focused and you can't be an expert in anything or in 188 00:10:35,250 --> 00:10:40,740 everything, but it also was a lot easier in terms of the sales process with new 189 00:10:40,740 --> 00:10:45,510 potential clients because we have one very specific area that we focus on. 190 00:10:45,930 --> 00:10:46,995 Customer retention. 191 00:10:47,354 --> 00:10:53,114 Um, we, you come to us in order to increase ltv and we're not a 192 00:10:53,295 --> 00:10:57,885 traditional email and SMS agency in the sense that we're not just doing 193 00:10:57,885 --> 00:10:59,834 things within your Klaviyo account. 194 00:10:59,954 --> 00:11:02,864 Like we're making recommendations that are more holistic 195 00:11:02,925 --> 00:11:04,275 across that customer journey. 196 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:04,594 Mm-hmm. 197 00:11:05,025 --> 00:11:05,026 so. 198 00:11:07,344 --> 00:11:08,474 I sort of fell into it. 199 00:11:08,564 --> 00:11:12,435 Um, definitely wasn't intentional to to begin with, but as I started working more 200 00:11:12,435 --> 00:11:17,084 and more within the e-commerce industry, saw how much opportunity there was there. 201 00:11:17,535 --> 00:11:17,895 Yeah. 202 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:18,135 Matt Edmundson: Nice. 203 00:11:18,135 --> 00:11:18,464 Fair enough. 204 00:11:18,885 --> 00:11:20,505 Okay, I have a big question for you. 205 00:11:20,505 --> 00:11:22,444 Is it Clavio or Klaviyo? 206 00:11:23,685 --> 00:11:27,925 Brandon Amoroso: I think they want us to say Klaviyo. 207 00:11:28,665 --> 00:11:30,015 But I can't remember what it was. 208 00:11:31,665 --> 00:11:34,155 Matt Edmundson: I just, I, I, I really should call them one day 209 00:11:34,155 --> 00:11:36,305 and ask them, Listen, how am I supposed to put, Is it Klaviyo? 210 00:11:36,345 --> 00:11:36,965 Or clavio? 211 00:11:37,035 --> 00:11:38,085 Brandon Amoroso: There's a right way to say it. 212 00:11:38,085 --> 00:11:40,245 They've got t-shirts with the phonetic spelling on it. 213 00:11:40,555 --> 00:11:41,105 as a joke? 214 00:11:41,295 --> 00:11:41,785 Matt Edmundson: Okay. 215 00:11:41,785 --> 00:11:42,105 Yeah. 216 00:11:42,165 --> 00:11:48,305 But maybe they should just send me one of those , So, um, Clavio 217 00:11:48,355 --> 00:11:52,875 or Klaviyo, you've mentioned that this is the platform that you use. 218 00:11:52,875 --> 00:11:58,095 Is this, is this your sort of platform of choice for, uh, email marketing? 219 00:11:58,305 --> 00:12:00,255 Um, especially around customer retention? 220 00:12:01,455 --> 00:12:01,845 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah. 221 00:12:01,905 --> 00:12:06,915 We only use Klaviyo for email, SMS marketing, uh, with any 222 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,085 brand that's on Shopify. 223 00:12:09,905 --> 00:12:12,025 Matt Edmundson: And why, why Klaviyo? 224 00:12:12,045 --> 00:12:13,965 Why that particular product? 225 00:12:15,555 --> 00:12:16,125 Brandon Amoroso: Because of. 226 00:12:17,025 --> 00:12:21,765 Sort of the number in depth of integrations that it has with the 227 00:12:21,765 --> 00:12:27,615 rest of, um, with the rest of our app, uh, tech stack for merchants. 228 00:12:27,725 --> 00:12:31,215 Mm-hmm, everything from the customer service platform to the reviews 229 00:12:31,215 --> 00:12:33,225 platform, to the loyalty platform. 230 00:12:33,525 --> 00:12:38,205 Everything integrates with Klaviyo, so we get that unified view of a customer. 231 00:12:38,625 --> 00:12:45,585 Um, and then there's been a lot of investment amongst, uh, the various apps. 232 00:12:46,215 --> 00:12:48,975 Into making their Klaviyo integrations more robust. 233 00:12:49,155 --> 00:12:53,205 So there's some specific features and functionality that only exist 234 00:12:53,235 --> 00:12:57,555 amongst, like Recharge and Klaviyo, for example, that you wouldn't 235 00:12:57,560 --> 00:12:59,595 get in any other email platform. 236 00:13:00,525 --> 00:13:03,285 So that is the main reason. 237 00:13:03,465 --> 00:13:03,555 Mm-hmm. 238 00:13:03,855 --> 00:13:08,345 . And then, um, for us, it just makes sense to, it's not like we're a 239 00:13:08,345 --> 00:13:10,245 team of, uh, a hundred people. 240 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,150 It makes more sense to go all in on one platform and truly be experts 241 00:13:15,150 --> 00:13:19,709 within that versus saying, Oh yeah, we do, uh, email and SMS marketing 242 00:13:19,714 --> 00:13:25,530 across Klaviyo, uh, MailChimp, list track, editable, and so on. 243 00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:26,040 Yeah. 244 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,260 It just doesn't, it would spread us too thin. 245 00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:28,890 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 246 00:13:28,890 --> 00:13:29,699 No fair play. 247 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:30,900 It's interesting. 248 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:36,990 I, I mean, I've been around e-commerce for a fair few years now, and it's 249 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:42,990 interesting to me that Clavio or Klaviyo seems to have sort of come out of nowhere. 250 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:48,510 I mean, not recently, but there were definitely other contenders in the market 251 00:13:48,510 --> 00:13:51,450 when they came onto the market, um mm-hmm. 252 00:13:51,780 --> 00:13:55,770 And they, I think they've, it feels to me like they've revolutionized 253 00:13:55,770 --> 00:13:57,150 the whole industry a little bit. 254 00:13:57,150 --> 00:14:00,840 And so they seem to be, and I don't have any data to prove this is just. 255 00:14:02,010 --> 00:14:04,680 What I, what I see, feel kind of thing. 256 00:14:04,950 --> 00:14:08,730 They seem to be the market leader, or at least one of the market leaders now in 257 00:14:08,730 --> 00:14:10,920 this whole email marketing side of things. 258 00:14:10,925 --> 00:14:12,810 And a lot of people talk about 'em very favorably. 259 00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:18,180 Um, we in fact use Klaviyo ourselves, uh, for our own e-commerce brands. 260 00:14:18,180 --> 00:14:22,830 And so, um, it's just, it's really interesting to sort of chart their 261 00:14:22,830 --> 00:14:27,795 story and, especially because there were other companies around beforehand 262 00:14:27,795 --> 00:14:29,175 that maybe haven't done as well. 263 00:14:29,305 --> 00:14:32,445 Uh,and so maybe they've just been faster at adapting. 264 00:14:32,445 --> 00:14:35,085 And one of the things like you say, that I like about 'em is they do adapt 265 00:14:35,085 --> 00:14:37,695 with a whole bunch of other stuff through their, through their APIs. 266 00:14:37,695 --> 00:14:39,995 So watch this space. 267 00:14:40,025 --> 00:14:42,105 We should probably get someone from Klaviyo onto the podcast 268 00:14:42,105 --> 00:14:46,635 and talk to 'em about, actually a little memo to self, uh, there. 269 00:14:47,835 --> 00:14:53,295 So, um, this ultimate retention program uh, of yours, Brandon. 270 00:14:53,295 --> 00:14:54,495 Let's talk about that. 271 00:14:54,495 --> 00:14:57,736 So, over the last few years of doing all of this, you've, you've figured a 272 00:14:57,741 --> 00:14:59,415 few things out, it's fair to say, right? 273 00:15:00,824 --> 00:15:01,365 Brandon Amoroso: I would hope so. 274 00:15:03,765 --> 00:15:03,944 . . Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 275 00:15:04,185 --> 00:15:05,955 Otherwise, it's gonna be a really short interview. 276 00:15:05,985 --> 00:15:06,465 I'm just saying. 277 00:15:08,805 --> 00:15:10,694 So, what have you, um, what have you learned? 278 00:15:10,694 --> 00:15:13,605 What, Just gimme an overview of the, the sort of the, 279 00:15:13,965 --> 00:15:16,125 this, this idea that you have. 280 00:15:17,955 --> 00:15:18,135 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah. 281 00:15:18,135 --> 00:15:25,770 So you get sort of the basic framework of which to build your retention program. 282 00:15:25,980 --> 00:15:26,160 Mm-hmm. 283 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,760 , um, when you get up and running with, with the Shopify store, but 284 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,110 everything is sort of, um, you, you're getting the, the basics. 285 00:15:34,115 --> 00:15:36,480 You're not necessarily extending it. 286 00:15:36,540 --> 00:15:40,590 And that starts all the way with, I mean, uh, Shopify for example, 287 00:15:40,620 --> 00:15:43,199 provides the ability to send out an abandoned cart email. 288 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:43,590 Mm-hmm. 289 00:15:43,830 --> 00:15:47,700 . So if you're a brand that just is getting up and running, Shopify can support 290 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:52,800 that for you, but truly to extend that functionality, you're gonna wanna get 291 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,850 up and running with Klaviyo, build out abandoned cart flows there, segment it 292 00:15:56,850 --> 00:15:59,190 based off of like what the cart size is. 293 00:15:59,190 --> 00:16:00,990 Is it a new or returning customer? 294 00:16:01,050 --> 00:16:03,870 Are they one shop buyer or subscription customer? 295 00:16:04,260 --> 00:16:08,700 And so anything within e-commerce can start out very simple and 296 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:10,980 then become very complex quickly. 297 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:17,115 And so it's all about sort of identifying what are the lowest hanging 298 00:16:17,295 --> 00:16:21,945 sort of, uh, fruit optimizations and initiatives that we can push forward, 299 00:16:21,945 --> 00:16:23,595 that's gonna drive the most roi. 300 00:16:23,595 --> 00:16:27,555 Because if you try to do everything all at once, you are going to end up doing 301 00:16:27,555 --> 00:16:32,925 everything sort of half baked and not, not really in a, in a strong, cohesive manner. 302 00:16:33,255 --> 00:16:41,625 So, Part of what we've been focused on is which of these things are the 303 00:16:41,625 --> 00:16:43,785 initiatives that we want to tackle first? 304 00:16:43,845 --> 00:16:45,265 And so there's very specific. 305 00:16:45,780 --> 00:16:50,760 Sort of changes to a brand setup that we wanna make, day one, whether 306 00:16:50,765 --> 00:16:53,250 they're large or small, because we know they're gonna have the most 307 00:16:53,250 --> 00:16:55,500 outsized, uh, return on investment. 308 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:55,650 Mm-hmm. 309 00:16:56,095 --> 00:17:00,540 versus other areas which are more of a nice to have, or, Hey, you're 310 00:17:00,545 --> 00:17:03,600 a, you're a really large brand, you can invest and get to this point. 311 00:17:03,810 --> 00:17:06,450 So we are going to focus on this with you. 312 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,915 Everything from like your campaign sending strategy could be uh, based off 313 00:17:12,915 --> 00:17:18,075 of a couple of key segments, but you can get as granular of your segmentation 314 00:17:18,075 --> 00:17:23,175 as, as you could even dream of based off of how much data's in Klaviyo mm-hmm. 315 00:17:23,665 --> 00:17:26,954 . So, uh, sort of a walk before you run approach. 316 00:17:27,075 --> 00:17:27,435 Mm-hmm. 317 00:17:28,655 --> 00:17:29,345 . Matt Edmundson: I like that. 318 00:17:29,655 --> 00:17:31,514 I like the, the walk before you run. 319 00:17:31,725 --> 00:17:37,034 And I , I laughed or I smiled when you said, you know, things in e-commerce can 320 00:17:37,034 --> 00:17:40,605 start off relatively simple and become horrendously complicated quite quickly. 321 00:17:41,205 --> 00:17:45,225 Uh, and if I, I could just hear, uh, all over the globe as people were listening 322 00:17:45,225 --> 00:17:46,995 to the show, people just going, Amen. 323 00:17:46,995 --> 00:17:47,655 Amen. 324 00:17:47,655 --> 00:17:48,075 Amen. 325 00:17:49,665 --> 00:17:52,065 Because we've all been there, haven't we? 326 00:17:52,125 --> 00:17:54,705 Uh, where things have just got horrendously complicated 327 00:17:54,705 --> 00:17:55,845 and unnecessarily so. 328 00:17:55,845 --> 00:17:57,525 So how do you stop that? 329 00:17:57,530 --> 00:18:02,685 How do you prevent, um, shiny object syndrome? 330 00:18:02,685 --> 00:18:07,065 How do you prevent, uh, the desire to change everything in instant because 331 00:18:07,065 --> 00:18:10,365 you feel like everything needs to be changed cuz stuff just isn't working. 332 00:18:10,919 --> 00:18:13,649 Um, how, how do you avoid going down that road? 333 00:18:15,389 --> 00:18:17,610 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah, so the biggest thing for me is when you're doing 334 00:18:17,610 --> 00:18:21,479 anything, just making sure that you have documentation around it. 335 00:18:21,989 --> 00:18:25,530 Um, and if you are going to be, like implementing testing, for example, 336 00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:30,479 that you have a, a framework to log and analyze those test results moving forward. 337 00:18:30,479 --> 00:18:32,760 So you're not just like testing for the sake of testing. 338 00:18:32,770 --> 00:18:33,379 Mm-hmm. 339 00:18:33,386 --> 00:18:35,010 , but I think the best example.. 340 00:18:35,850 --> 00:18:38,955 Um, we've been in a couple of Klaviyo accounts where it's 341 00:18:38,955 --> 00:18:40,035 just an absolute nightmare. 342 00:18:40,125 --> 00:18:45,315 It's likes a hundred, there's like a hundred flows. 343 00:18:45,555 --> 00:18:50,385 Um, they have been set up by like four or five different agencies. 344 00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:53,355 There's been in-house people that are tweaking them as well. 345 00:18:53,625 --> 00:18:58,335 No one really knows what customers are getting which emails and texts at 346 00:18:58,335 --> 00:19:00,195 what point of their, of their journey. 347 00:19:00,705 --> 00:19:06,870 And, uh, there's no consistency in terms of, uh, branding across, across them. 348 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:12,600 And I think that spawns out of not having sort of documentation mm-hmm. 349 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,460 and basically a, a roadmap of this is what we built out in Klaviyo. 350 00:19:17,730 --> 00:19:20,640 This is like the last day that it was edited. 351 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,100 This is what we're currently testing within the flow. 352 00:19:23,250 --> 00:19:26,640 So it really comes down to just organization and, and managing 353 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:31,140 that and having somebody like in house who's, who's truly owning it. 354 00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:31,830 Mm-hmm. 355 00:19:31,870 --> 00:19:37,065 Because if you just throw five different agencies at your Klaviyo account, then 356 00:19:37,065 --> 00:19:41,294 you're constantly going to be reinventing the wheel, and you're not going to 357 00:19:41,385 --> 00:19:46,095 know if there's any incremental benefit or ROI to that, to that decision. 358 00:19:47,550 --> 00:19:51,480 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, we had, um, we had one agency looking after 359 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,000 our Klaviyo email list, uh mm-hmm. 360 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,480 or our Klaviyo email, uh, the whole thing that we're looking after Klaviyo. 361 00:19:58,050 --> 00:20:01,500 Uh, and in April this year, I think it was April, April 362 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:03,510 May, we switched out agencies. 363 00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:07,920 Um, and we, we bought somebody else in that could make a big difference. 364 00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:10,680 Um, cuz we, we just sort of, actually, something's not right. 365 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,320 It's not performing how we, how we think it could. 366 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,260 Um, and so they've made a whole bunch of changes. 367 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:20,550 And so actually in hindsight, what I wish we'd have done was. 368 00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:23,100 Exactly what you've just said. 369 00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:23,340 Right. 370 00:20:23,340 --> 00:20:27,360 Had the documentation from agency number one saying this is all the stuff. 371 00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:31,140 Because the confusion after doing that, bringing in that second 372 00:20:31,140 --> 00:20:33,370 agency has been quite stark. 373 00:20:34,070 --> 00:20:34,680 Mm-hmm. 374 00:20:34,860 --> 00:20:37,050 and we that we then integrate on top of it. 375 00:20:37,050 --> 00:20:39,700 We integrated a new, um, dashboard. 376 00:20:39,890 --> 00:20:40,800 Right. 377 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:41,570 A BDI. 378 00:20:41,570 --> 00:20:46,160 So we, we, we integrated this new dashboard, which also beautifully 379 00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:47,800 integrates with Klaviyo. 380 00:20:48,260 --> 00:20:52,790 And so, um, we were having all this, we had the website and now we've got 381 00:20:52,795 --> 00:20:54,310 this dashboard talking to Klaviyo. 382 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,770 Plus, we've now on our second agency Wow. 383 00:20:58,305 --> 00:21:02,175 We're still trying to unpick, I think a whole bunch of the problems that 384 00:21:02,175 --> 00:21:04,005 came about as a result of doing that. 385 00:21:04,365 --> 00:21:08,895 Um, because we didn't understand how stuff was all gonna work together in terms of 386 00:21:08,895 --> 00:21:12,405 what other people had done and who was getting what and who wasn't getting stuff. 387 00:21:12,945 --> 00:21:19,365 Um, so it's been a really steep learning curve. 388 00:21:19,755 --> 00:21:23,375 But when you talk about, and, and, and I sit here in hindsight, right, 389 00:21:23,375 --> 00:21:29,115 Brandon going, we should have done what you've just suggested, um, because it 390 00:21:29,115 --> 00:21:30,465 would've saved us a whole lot of pain. 391 00:21:30,585 --> 00:21:35,505 But if I'd sit, sat here and listened to you talk and had not gone through that, 392 00:21:35,565 --> 00:21:37,215 I'd have just gone something like that. 393 00:21:37,245 --> 00:21:37,965 Makes sense. 394 00:21:37,965 --> 00:21:40,905 But documentation that's not sexy is it? 395 00:21:41,205 --> 00:21:44,655 Uh, I, that that whole getting organized thing is just not sexy. 396 00:21:45,105 --> 00:21:48,535 Uh, and so it'll probably become task number 806. 397 00:21:49,165 --> 00:21:49,675 To-do list. 398 00:21:51,475 --> 00:21:52,615 Brandon Amoroso: Yes, it is. 399 00:21:52,794 --> 00:21:57,145 It's not sexy, but it'll, it'll save you a lot of time in, in the long run. 400 00:21:57,385 --> 00:21:59,155 And it doesn't have to be complicated either. 401 00:21:59,245 --> 00:22:01,465 Just it's very, very simple. 402 00:22:01,470 --> 00:22:04,139 It could be a spreadsheet just tracking. 403 00:22:04,409 --> 00:22:04,709 Mm-hmm. 404 00:22:04,949 --> 00:22:10,709 , um, what's been done and when, and if you are testing, what are you testing? 405 00:22:10,709 --> 00:22:12,030 What's the desired outcome? 406 00:22:12,419 --> 00:22:17,220 Um, there's actually an interesting thing I was reading about how if you 407 00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:22,899 don't write down your expected outcome from like a test that you're running, 408 00:22:23,550 --> 00:22:28,050 if whenever you get the results, Even if they're not originally what you 409 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:34,590 had expected, like human nature will rationalize whatever the actual result is. 410 00:22:34,590 --> 00:22:34,650 Yeah. 411 00:22:34,770 --> 00:22:38,340 If you don't have it written down like, hey, this is what our hypothesis was. 412 00:22:38,550 --> 00:22:38,700 Mm-hmm. 413 00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:42,000 . Um, and the reason why that's important is because if you just are 414 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,580 constantly rationalizing whatever the results are, there's no way to 415 00:22:44,580 --> 00:22:47,820 reflect on, oh, what should we have done differently or tweak differently 416 00:22:47,820 --> 00:22:50,400 to improve, like CTR, for example. 417 00:22:50,430 --> 00:22:50,700 Mm-hmm.. 418 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:54,120 Um, so that was something that I found pretty interesting as well. 419 00:22:54,889 --> 00:22:56,640 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, No, that's a good point actually. 420 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:01,710 That whole, um, mapping expected outcomes because you're right, because, uh, 421 00:23:01,710 --> 00:23:06,990 it, it helps you if you're objective enough, it means you can analyze your 422 00:23:06,990 --> 00:23:11,100 thinking, um, and to go actually, so we didn't achieve this outcome. 423 00:23:11,105 --> 00:23:12,420 It was either better or it was worse. 424 00:23:12,425 --> 00:23:16,510 So what led me to believe that this was the expected outcome is actually 425 00:23:16,515 --> 00:23:17,850 quite an interesting question, isn't it? 426 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:19,790 And why, Why did I go down that road? 427 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:24,930 Um, it, um, have you ever, ever read the book Black Box Thinking 428 00:23:25,050 --> 00:23:26,500 with, is it Matthew Syed? 429 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:27,930 I think that's the guy that wrote the book. 430 00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:29,250 Brandon Amoroso: I, I have not. 431 00:23:29,490 --> 00:23:34,260 Um, but I will, I'll add it to my list if you, uh, you recommend it. 432 00:23:34,860 --> 00:23:35,220 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 433 00:23:35,225 --> 00:23:37,890 He's, um, his whole, the whole premise of the book is how do 434 00:23:37,890 --> 00:23:39,160 you deal with failure, Right. 435 00:23:39,420 --> 00:23:40,110 And. 436 00:23:41,370 --> 00:23:46,590 And he, he contrasts, uh, the airline industry and the medical industry 437 00:23:46,590 --> 00:23:50,280 in the states and how they, how they both deal with failure and how the 438 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:54,179 medical industry really doesn't like failure and does everything to avoid 439 00:23:54,185 --> 00:23:58,320 it because of the million lawsuits that are gonna come their way, whereas 440 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,090 the airline industry learns from it. 441 00:24:00,389 --> 00:24:00,780 Right. 442 00:24:00,780 --> 00:24:06,480 And, uh, we now have some of the safest stats ever coming out of an 443 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,219 industry that was notoriously unsafe. 444 00:24:08,219 --> 00:24:10,199 And it's because of how they deal with this. 445 00:24:10,199 --> 00:24:14,370 And I think the documenting of your hypothesis is a simple idea, isn't it? 446 00:24:14,590 --> 00:24:18,870 It's like, if I jot this down, um, rather than just brushing over 447 00:24:18,870 --> 00:24:22,439 it because we don't like it when we're wrong, but analyzing it and 448 00:24:22,439 --> 00:24:23,969 going, What can we learn from that? 449 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:25,919 I think it's a really powerful idea. 450 00:24:26,070 --> 00:24:27,360 Uh, super, super powerful. 451 00:24:28,500 --> 00:24:28,620 Yeah. 452 00:24:28,620 --> 00:24:29,159 So. 453 00:24:30,754 --> 00:24:31,665 Customer retention. 454 00:24:31,754 --> 00:24:35,205 Um, what are some of the, what are some of the components then that 455 00:24:35,205 --> 00:24:38,835 we should be thinking about, uh, as a, as eCommerce entrepreneurs? 456 00:24:39,945 --> 00:24:40,064 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah. 457 00:24:40,064 --> 00:24:45,855 I mean, the easiest place to start is going to be your email and sms. 458 00:24:45,975 --> 00:24:46,064 Mm-hmm. 459 00:24:46,304 --> 00:24:46,544 flows. 460 00:24:47,115 --> 00:24:51,165 Those have the most outsize impact on, on customer retention. 461 00:24:51,645 --> 00:25:01,004 Um, then from there, there's some more, I would say sort of soft initiatives 462 00:25:01,004 --> 00:25:05,775 that you can push forward that don't have as necessarily of a direct, uh, 463 00:25:05,805 --> 00:25:08,955 correlation to, Oh, like I can see how many people clicked on this, how 464 00:25:08,955 --> 00:25:10,155 much revenue was driven through it. 465 00:25:10,155 --> 00:25:10,245 Mm-hmm.. 466 00:25:10,545 --> 00:25:14,835 But like, if you don't have a strong customer support team, uh, in place, 467 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:19,065 then your customer retention is naturally going to suffer from that. 468 00:25:19,185 --> 00:25:23,965 And something that we've been, uh, chatting through with, with is how 469 00:25:23,965 --> 00:25:28,560 brands should be looking at customer service not only as like a retention 470 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,910 hub, but somewhere that actually additional revenue can be, can be driven. 471 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,200 And so they're now, they're now, uh, rolling out, uh, analytics within the 472 00:25:37,205 --> 00:25:43,785 platform that allow us to track like, Oh, this CS agent actually made $5,000 this 473 00:25:43,785 --> 00:25:48,015 month in additional revenue from their interaction with customers chatting in. 474 00:25:48,555 --> 00:25:52,395 Uh, so that's, that's a really crucial component that I think a 475 00:25:52,395 --> 00:25:56,355 lot of brands have looked at as a cost center historically, which is 476 00:25:56,360 --> 00:26:00,645 definitely not, um, the way that you should be approaching it today. 477 00:26:01,695 --> 00:26:06,825 Another thing is subscription programs, they are, um, beneficial 478 00:26:07,125 --> 00:26:09,585 obviously from a LTV standpoint. 479 00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:15,870 But not a tremendous fan of the companies that have like 40% off your 480 00:26:15,870 --> 00:26:20,190 first subscription order and then essentially set it up so that you have 481 00:26:20,195 --> 00:26:23,700 to become a subscription customer in order to be a customer of their brand. 482 00:26:23,940 --> 00:26:24,240 Mm-hmm. 483 00:26:24,315 --> 00:26:28,650 , the way that we like to approach it is much more of a try 484 00:26:28,770 --> 00:26:30,480 before you subscribe, approach. 485 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,100 And so maybe the first order or the first two are one shot, but then because of 486 00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:39,975 the email and SMS flow, so we have set naturally that customer will get pushed 487 00:26:39,975 --> 00:26:46,155 into a subscription program, um, for something that they actually like because 488 00:26:46,155 --> 00:26:51,675 it's a lot easier to keep a customer as a one shot customer and then like 489 00:26:51,675 --> 00:26:56,445 transition 'em into subscription versus if they start out on a subscription and then 490 00:26:56,445 --> 00:27:00,885 they churn significantly more difficult to ever get them back as a customer. 491 00:27:00,955 --> 00:27:01,395 Okay. 492 00:27:01,395 --> 00:27:05,639 I don't know if there's something to do with like, It's like the way the 493 00:27:05,639 --> 00:27:10,110 human brain works or something, but you, it's almost like you're canceling 494 00:27:10,110 --> 00:27:11,909 that relationship with that brand. 495 00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:12,360 Yeah. 496 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,949 If you're, if you're unsubscribing from, uh, your subscription program, whereas 497 00:27:16,949 --> 00:27:21,209 the one shot's much more transactional and, uh, so we much prefer that route. 498 00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:24,389 And uh, and I'd say the last thing though, there's a bunch of other 499 00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:27,689 stuff, but one of the most impactful. 500 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,250 Uh, things that we do across all of our clients when we get started with them is 501 00:27:32,250 --> 00:27:38,310 move their transactional communications outta Shopify into Klaviyo, okay? 502 00:27:38,315 --> 00:27:44,710 Because about 15 to 20% of a brand's, uh, website traffic 503 00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:47,190 goes to that order tracking page. 504 00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:51,780 So we set up custom order tracking pages that have like product cross 505 00:27:51,780 --> 00:27:54,210 sells, additional brand information. 506 00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:57,060 If you're a one shot customer, we show you all the benefits 507 00:27:57,060 --> 00:27:58,320 of the subscription program. 508 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:03,240 If you are a subscription customer, we push you into the referral, uh, program. 509 00:28:03,899 --> 00:28:08,879 And then we're also able to like test and create personalized transactional 510 00:28:08,879 --> 00:28:13,845 journeys in Klaviyo where, I mean, these emails are getting 90% open 511 00:28:13,845 --> 00:28:16,485 rates, like 25% click through rates. 512 00:28:16,785 --> 00:28:22,935 It is such a higher, um, engagement than you're gonna see with 513 00:28:22,940 --> 00:28:24,315 your marketing communications. 514 00:28:24,315 --> 00:28:24,405 Mm-hmm. 515 00:28:24,735 --> 00:28:27,795 . And so if you just leave them in Shopify, you have no idea what is 516 00:28:27,795 --> 00:28:29,055 happening with those customers. 517 00:28:29,055 --> 00:28:31,185 You can't see the data, you can't do any testing. 518 00:28:31,365 --> 00:28:32,865 You can't make it personalized. 519 00:28:33,195 --> 00:28:36,705 So getting those over into Klaviyo has been a huge unlock for us. 520 00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:41,460 That is, I mean, if you're a customer who just places, uh, an order of the 521 00:28:41,460 --> 00:28:44,580 brand for the first time, most of your experience with that brand is 522 00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:46,139 gonna be the transactional journey. 523 00:28:46,169 --> 00:28:50,580 Your order confirmed, order out for your shipping, order delivered, and so on. 524 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,000 Um, so making sure that that is really set up for success. 525 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,090 Mm-hmm. 526 00:28:54,330 --> 00:28:56,560 branded, the whole thing is very important. 527 00:28:57,705 --> 00:29:00,885 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's a really interesting point and I, and I wanna 528 00:29:00,885 --> 00:29:04,935 just dig into this a little bit more because, um, it's a bit of a, a bit of a 529 00:29:04,935 --> 00:29:09,225 soapbox for me, if I'm honest with you, uh, Brandon, in the sense that the most 530 00:29:09,225 --> 00:29:13,425 neglected emails are our transactional emails for just about every e-commerce 531 00:29:13,425 --> 00:29:20,010 business I've ever worked with and they're the most opened emails by clients. 532 00:29:20,340 --> 00:29:23,820 Um, I think I've read a stat, I dunno if it's still true, but, 533 00:29:23,820 --> 00:29:25,860 uh, the, your order is shipped. 534 00:29:26,220 --> 00:29:29,340 Email, you know, with the tracking information is opened by sort 535 00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:31,889 of 60 to 70% of your people. 536 00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:33,450 That's a lot, right? 537 00:29:33,450 --> 00:29:34,110 Of opens. 538 00:29:34,110 --> 00:29:34,169 Yeah. 539 00:29:34,830 --> 00:29:37,260 Um, and all they tend to be is just emails. 540 00:29:38,129 --> 00:29:39,810 Uh oh Matt, you're order shipped. 541 00:29:39,810 --> 00:29:40,750 Here's a tracking number. 542 00:29:40,790 --> 00:29:41,360 Thanks. 543 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:42,510 Um, you know, Right. 544 00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:43,320 And that's it. 545 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,090 And usually that comes from the shipping company. 546 00:29:45,090 --> 00:29:46,050 I don't even send it out. 547 00:29:46,050 --> 00:29:52,530 And so, um, that, that whole transactional email, um, getting them 548 00:29:52,530 --> 00:29:55,470 out of Shopify, and to Klaviyo, you can do then so much more with 'em. 549 00:29:55,470 --> 00:29:59,310 What sort of things have you found Works really well with the transactional emails? 550 00:30:00,690 --> 00:30:04,890 Brandon Amoroso: So, simplest thing we do is just create a separate 551 00:30:04,895 --> 00:30:09,060 transactional journey for one shot customers and then create a different 552 00:30:09,065 --> 00:30:10,580 one for subscription customers. 553 00:30:10,950 --> 00:30:14,699 Because we want to, uh, be speaking to them differently. 554 00:30:14,909 --> 00:30:19,290 Uh, for the one Shot customers, we are promoting the subscription program, 555 00:30:19,740 --> 00:30:21,149 additional products that they should try. 556 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,400 Whereas on the subscription customer side of things, we're, we're reinforcing some 557 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,640 of the perks and benefits that they're getting for being a subscription customer, 558 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,270 just to continue to let them know that, uh, but then they're a subscription 559 00:30:33,275 --> 00:30:36,840 customer, so they're gonna be more likely to refer a friend than somebody who's 560 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,180 just purchased, uh, as a one shot order. 561 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:39,390 Mm-hmm. 562 00:30:39,629 --> 00:30:42,570 . So then we promote the referral program, uh, pretty heavily. 563 00:30:42,930 --> 00:30:47,610 So that's just one basic example of how you can then personalize the 564 00:30:47,615 --> 00:30:51,280 transactional journey to make it a little bit more relevant for that customer. 565 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:52,160 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 566 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:52,410 No. 567 00:30:52,469 --> 00:30:52,800 Brilliant. 568 00:30:53,250 --> 00:30:53,610 Brilliant. 569 00:30:53,610 --> 00:30:54,300 Absolutely. 570 00:30:54,959 --> 00:31:00,899 Um, so you've, you've, you've got these different workflows for your one stops, 571 00:31:00,959 --> 00:31:05,729 uh, for your subscription and for your, um, you know, and you're sending 572 00:31:05,729 --> 00:31:07,679 them down these sort of different journeys, you're dealing with them. 573 00:31:07,949 --> 00:31:10,500 What are the sort of forms of segmentation do you use? 574 00:31:10,500 --> 00:31:13,469 I mentioned you mentioned earlier about you've got a, a flow 575 00:31:13,469 --> 00:31:15,060 around abandoned carts, right? 576 00:31:16,229 --> 00:31:16,260 Mm. 577 00:31:17,265 --> 00:31:22,365 Brandon Amoroso: So I'd say the most complex abandoned cart flow that we've 578 00:31:22,365 --> 00:31:28,335 done is taking into account, um, if it's a new versus returning customer. 579 00:31:28,365 --> 00:31:28,975 Mm-hmm.. 580 00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:32,535 And then if it's a returning customer, is it a one shot customer 581 00:31:32,540 --> 00:31:34,005 or a subscription customer? 582 00:31:34,455 --> 00:31:39,930 And then, um, also taking into account what is the cart size as well? 583 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,870 So you have a bunch of different branches going on in there. 584 00:31:42,870 --> 00:31:42,960 Mm-hmm. 585 00:31:43,385 --> 00:31:44,340 within that flow. 586 00:31:44,730 --> 00:31:48,060 And, uh, the reason why we're checking for, is it a new 587 00:31:48,065 --> 00:31:49,380 versus returning customers? 588 00:31:49,385 --> 00:31:53,730 Because if it's a new customer, then we are just going to communicate with them 589 00:31:53,735 --> 00:31:58,290 differently and maybe even have higher incentivization through the form of offers 590 00:31:58,290 --> 00:31:59,970 to get them to make that first purchase. 591 00:32:00,330 --> 00:32:03,845 Or if you're a returning customer, we might reference 592 00:32:03,870 --> 00:32:05,910 whatever your previous order was. 593 00:32:06,060 --> 00:32:10,830 Mm-hmm, um, or include information in there about, uh, certain 594 00:32:10,830 --> 00:32:13,080 profiles or characteristics that we have on that customer. 595 00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:17,310 Then one shot versus subscription is important cuz if you're an active 596 00:32:17,315 --> 00:32:22,530 subscription customer and you abandon checkout, we're probably going to not 597 00:32:22,530 --> 00:32:25,910 be as aggressive in our communication with you because you're an absent, 598 00:32:25,910 --> 00:32:27,600 you're an active subscription customeer. 599 00:32:28,030 --> 00:32:31,365 Umrif you are not then, then we will be. 600 00:32:31,455 --> 00:32:33,195 And then the cart size is important too. 601 00:32:33,495 --> 00:32:37,455 Cause if you have $500 a product in your cart, maybe we give you a code. 602 00:32:37,460 --> 00:32:40,725 Whereas if you only got $50 in it, you don't say anything. 603 00:32:41,055 --> 00:32:44,955 Um, so that's just one example. 604 00:32:45,045 --> 00:32:49,485 But you can continue sort of further down the, the rabbit hole there. 605 00:32:50,445 --> 00:32:50,774 I don't know. 606 00:32:50,774 --> 00:32:53,805 Let's say you have like a quiz on your website that, or you have a review 607 00:32:53,805 --> 00:32:57,645 request process that asks people for their skin type, since it's a 608 00:32:57,645 --> 00:33:02,504 skincare brand mm-hmm., you could then split out the, uh, flow based off 609 00:33:02,510 --> 00:33:04,605 of skin type and reference in there. 610 00:33:04,635 --> 00:33:08,205 Like, Oh, hey, you have dry skin, so you should be also looking 611 00:33:08,210 --> 00:33:10,155 at these relevant products. 612 00:33:11,490 --> 00:33:16,050 And you can sort of continue on, on down the path there, but it's really all about 613 00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:18,600 leveraging, uh, zero and first party data. 614 00:33:18,605 --> 00:33:23,220 Mm-hmm., like you can get a lot, uh, a lot of the way there with first party data. 615 00:33:23,490 --> 00:33:27,690 And then from there look at, hey, what else would we need to make this 616 00:33:27,695 --> 00:33:30,510 more relevant, um, for the customer? 617 00:33:30,570 --> 00:33:34,710 And that's typically where zero party data will come in, in the form of like quizzes, 618 00:33:35,130 --> 00:33:38,385 um, reviews, post purchase surveys. 619 00:33:38,425 --> 00:33:38,605 Mm-hmm. 620 00:33:38,605 --> 00:33:39,335 stuff like that. 621 00:33:40,805 --> 00:33:42,045 Matt Edmundson: Super powerful stuff. 622 00:33:42,050 --> 00:33:49,155 I, it's, it's, um, it goes back to, uh, I mean, it, it sounds complex, 623 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,165 Brandon, what you're talking about, but it really isn't, and, and you are 624 00:33:52,170 --> 00:33:56,475 talking about actually just putting yourself in the shoes of your customer. 625 00:33:56,475 --> 00:33:59,399 If your customer is this type of customer, What sort of 626 00:33:59,399 --> 00:34:01,560 stuff do we want to give them? 627 00:34:01,860 --> 00:34:04,860 If they're this type of customer, what's gonna make sense for them 628 00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:07,170 and let's give them that information rather than just doing this sort of 629 00:34:07,175 --> 00:34:09,449 blanket one size fits all type thing. 630 00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:13,290 Um, email and sms. 631 00:34:13,295 --> 00:34:16,020 You mentioned about sms, doing SMS stuff. 632 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:21,529 Uh, and have you found that there's a difference between email and sms 633 00:34:21,529 --> 00:34:25,259 in terms of its, I know, I know a lot of people, for example, who 634 00:34:25,259 --> 00:34:27,159 will do email but won't do sms. 635 00:34:27,405 --> 00:34:32,325 Uh, and so I'm kind of thinking, um, what would be the reasons why I should 636 00:34:32,325 --> 00:34:34,065 start looking at something like sms? 637 00:34:34,065 --> 00:34:35,625 Is it too competitive yet? 638 00:34:35,625 --> 00:34:36,284 Do, you know, what I mean? 639 00:34:36,284 --> 00:34:37,185 These sorts of questions. 640 00:34:37,185 --> 00:34:38,264 I wonder what you thought about that. 641 00:34:39,525 --> 00:34:45,795 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah, I don't really, I don't see a reason why, um, any 642 00:34:45,795 --> 00:34:49,295 brand would not do SMS marketing. 643 00:34:49,830 --> 00:34:52,980 Um, it's a different communication channel for sure. 644 00:34:52,980 --> 00:34:55,710 Like you can't treat it in the same way that you treat email marketing. 645 00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:59,820 Otherwise, you're gonna end up with a lot of unsubscribes, and you're also 646 00:34:59,820 --> 00:35:06,060 gonna have to pay a lot because it's pay per text sent out versus email, which 647 00:35:06,065 --> 00:35:10,770 is not like, I mean, I have a hundred thousand contacts in my Klaviyo account. 648 00:35:11,130 --> 00:35:12,870 I can send them as many emails as I want. 649 00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:15,255 I'm not going to be charged on a, on a usage basis. 650 00:35:15,475 --> 00:35:18,475 Whereas, uh, there's carrier fees associated with text. 651 00:35:18,495 --> 00:35:23,115 So if it's an SMS or an mms, you're paying for that message to go out. 652 00:35:23,595 --> 00:35:29,444 So that just makes it a less, um, frequent communication channel. 653 00:35:29,444 --> 00:35:31,815 Mm-hmm, and you're also in somebody's text message inbox. 654 00:35:31,815 --> 00:35:37,634 So it's much more personal and you need to treat it in, in, in a higher regard 655 00:35:37,935 --> 00:35:42,015 than you do email, where people are used to being on hundreds of email lists 656 00:35:42,015 --> 00:35:45,555 that they just sort of click through and it's not, it's just not the same. 657 00:35:46,125 --> 00:35:49,035 Uh, but SMS has an outsized return compared to email. 658 00:35:49,185 --> 00:35:51,884 I mean, click through rates are, are significantly higher. 659 00:35:52,245 --> 00:35:55,815 Um, the ROI is usually significantly higher. 660 00:35:56,725 --> 00:36:01,694 So any brand that's, that's not doing it, the easiest way to get started in 661 00:36:01,694 --> 00:36:08,535 a, in a way that wouldn't open it up, the floodgates would be to basically 662 00:36:08,535 --> 00:36:12,455 create like a segment of, of your absolute best customers in Klaviyo. 663 00:36:12,975 --> 00:36:18,555 Invite time to a V.I.P SMS subscriber list where you can send them, uh, 664 00:36:18,734 --> 00:36:22,095 like new product announcements and launches before you send them 665 00:36:22,095 --> 00:36:24,615 to the rest of your email list. 666 00:36:24,984 --> 00:36:28,440 Uh, start to build some exclusivity around that channel in, in that way. 667 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,910 Or, I mean, just add in a, a two step popup on your website if you 668 00:36:32,910 --> 00:36:37,470 want to open up to everyone and have email capture be on the first page. 669 00:36:37,470 --> 00:36:41,520 And then the second screen would show, uh, that SMS lead capture. 670 00:36:41,670 --> 00:36:45,870 And with some of our brands, we incentivize SMS sign up by 671 00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:48,720 saying, Well, if you give us your phone number, then you're gonna 672 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:50,150 be entered for a chance to win. 673 00:36:50,530 --> 00:36:54,300 Uh, something like a gift with your order or you can do an 674 00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:56,190 additional percentage off. 675 00:36:56,250 --> 00:37:02,190 Maybe it's 10 for email, 15% for sms, um, but pretty much across the 676 00:37:02,190 --> 00:37:07,080 board of any brand that we work with, the LTV of SMS subscribers is higher 677 00:37:07,230 --> 00:37:10,080 than that of email only subscribers. 678 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:10,810 Matt Edmundson: Okay. 679 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:12,345 That's an important point. 680 00:37:12,350 --> 00:37:12,615 Right. 681 00:37:13,065 --> 00:37:16,425 And I like your strategy there for getting the, uh, the SMS subscribers. 682 00:37:16,425 --> 00:37:20,925 So what you, you mentioned treat the SMS box differently to the inbox. 683 00:37:20,925 --> 00:37:25,545 What sort of, um, text messages work well in your opinion? 684 00:37:27,225 --> 00:37:34,185 Brandon Amoroso: More like authentic, fun, cheeky, uh, personality from the brand 685 00:37:34,395 --> 00:37:37,065 than your standard like email marketing. 686 00:37:37,070 --> 00:37:40,080 Here's a bunch of pretty pictures and design. 687 00:37:40,450 --> 00:37:44,520 Which I would argue for email marketing, even some of the best performing emails 688 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:48,210 are just like a simple text based email from the found, from the founder. 689 00:37:48,330 --> 00:37:48,420 Mm-hmm. 690 00:37:48,830 --> 00:37:51,840 But we've had a lot of success with like the founder taking a selfie at the 691 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,250 warehouse and giving some cute like, anecdotal story to their subscribers 692 00:37:56,255 --> 00:38:00,090 with sort of a, a link out to whatever product they were referencing. 693 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:06,540 Um, and then making sure that you have people on the other end of that channel 694 00:38:06,570 --> 00:38:08,130 cuz it's a two-way communication channel. 695 00:38:08,130 --> 00:38:08,870 It's not mm-hmm. 696 00:38:08,950 --> 00:38:13,620 , it's not like email where most customers are not going to reply to your marketing 697 00:38:13,620 --> 00:38:19,049 emails, but uh, they definitely will reply to your text messaging, uh, campaigns. 698 00:38:19,319 --> 00:38:24,569 So the worst thing I think a brand can do is have an auto response that goes out 699 00:38:24,575 --> 00:38:28,970 when somebody sends a text back to your brand with something along the lines of. 700 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,529 Uh, this inbox isn't monitored. 701 00:38:31,529 --> 00:38:36,750 Reach out to us at help@brand.com, uh, and we'll be able to better assist you there. 702 00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:38,399 Like that's a huge missed opportunity. 703 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,689 Yeah, to create a relationship with the customer, service them like on demand 704 00:38:42,694 --> 00:38:44,580 and get them to purchase, uh, product. 705 00:38:46,095 --> 00:38:49,845 Matt Edmundson: So what are some of the, um, brands that you've seen do 706 00:38:49,845 --> 00:38:54,975 retention marketing well?What are, what is, I'm a, the reason I'm asking this, 707 00:38:55,005 --> 00:38:59,265 Brandon, is I, as, as much as I hate all the email I get every day, I do 708 00:38:59,265 --> 00:39:03,225 subscribe to people's email list, uh, and SMS list deliberately just to see what 709 00:39:03,230 --> 00:39:04,725 they're doing so I can learn from them. 710 00:39:04,725 --> 00:39:04,995 Right? 711 00:39:05,565 --> 00:39:08,595 Uh, and so I'm kind of curious who, who should I look at? 712 00:39:10,365 --> 00:39:12,585 Brandon Amoroso: So I could be self-serving and give you a client 713 00:39:12,585 --> 00:39:17,955 of ours, but, um, I, do that we don't mind, I, I, I'll, I'll go in a different 714 00:39:17,955 --> 00:39:24,775 direction, um, with an apparel company that I buy, uh, like my workout clothes 715 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,395 from, it's called, uh, 10,000 mm-hmm.. 716 00:39:28,815 --> 00:39:37,485 Um, and they have a, uh, like a loyalty program where, because I've purchased 717 00:39:37,485 --> 00:39:39,045 from them a certain amount of times. 718 00:39:39,345 --> 00:39:44,145 Um, and I think it was something like three months had passed and I had not gone 719 00:39:44,145 --> 00:39:47,835 back and made another purchase before, but they just had a new, like colorway 720 00:39:47,835 --> 00:39:50,145 drop for one of their pairs of shorts. 721 00:39:50,475 --> 00:39:54,585 Um, when sending out that communication to me, they referenced the fact that 722 00:39:54,585 --> 00:39:57,855 I had a $30 credit as a part of their loyalty program that I would be able 723 00:39:57,855 --> 00:39:59,445 to redeem just right within checkout. 724 00:39:59,635 --> 00:40:00,115 Right? 725 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:04,515 So, um, I was just clicked the link, took me right into like the shop 726 00:40:04,515 --> 00:40:06,825 pay flow and there I was spending. 727 00:40:07,890 --> 00:40:10,770 $32 or whatever on a $62 pair of shorts. 728 00:40:10,770 --> 00:40:16,470 But the, um, they got me back onto the website, got me interacting with the 729 00:40:16,470 --> 00:40:20,190 brand again, and were able to personalize it because of the fact that I had 730 00:40:20,190 --> 00:40:25,049 purchased that type of short before and they were referencing the loyalty 731 00:40:25,055 --> 00:40:28,799 program and dynamically pulling in like how much store credit I had left. 732 00:40:28,860 --> 00:40:28,950 Mm-hmm. 733 00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:31,890 to make it more likely that I purchase or that I click through 734 00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:33,090 and actually make that purchase. 735 00:40:35,265 --> 00:40:35,565 Matt Edmundson: Great. 736 00:40:35,655 --> 00:40:36,255 I like that. 737 00:40:36,345 --> 00:40:37,425 I'll check them out. 738 00:40:38,205 --> 00:40:43,035 Um, now we're due to the nature of when we record the e-commerce podcast. 739 00:40:43,185 --> 00:40:46,995 Uh, and when we air the E-Commerce podcast, they're two very different dates. 740 00:40:47,085 --> 00:40:52,385 Um, so this episode will come out, uh, after Black Friday. 741 00:40:52,385 --> 00:40:56,435 So I'm just curious in the closing minutes of the show, what are some of the tips 742 00:40:56,435 --> 00:40:58,745 maybe that brands should think about? 743 00:40:58,745 --> 00:41:00,545 Marketeers listening should think about? 744 00:41:01,055 --> 00:41:03,935 They've gone through Black Friday, they've got a whole bunch of new 745 00:41:03,935 --> 00:41:11,165 clients, um, top strategies here for, for keeping them and retaining them? 746 00:41:12,065 --> 00:41:17,190 Brandon Amoroso: So if you don't ask and hopefully you did this, 747 00:41:17,190 --> 00:41:21,120 but if not, then you can still, uh, recover the information. 748 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,960 But something we like to do for Black Friday, Cyber Monday, is when people 749 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,930 are checking out in that post-purchase survey, the first question that we 750 00:41:27,930 --> 00:41:30,330 ask is like, was this a gift or not? 751 00:41:30,330 --> 00:41:34,560 Mm-hmm, because if it's a gift, well then we're gonna communicate entirely 752 00:41:34,565 --> 00:41:39,480 different with that contact, then we will, if they say no, if it was a gift, 753 00:41:39,810 --> 00:41:43,269 why not surface them an offer to purchase for themselves right then and there? 754 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,325 Put them into a separate bucket within your email and SMS account to 755 00:41:47,330 --> 00:41:49,694 communicate with them, uh, differently. 756 00:41:49,995 --> 00:41:53,805 And then you have the other side of the coin, which is who's the recipient? 757 00:41:54,075 --> 00:41:56,685 Trying to get that information so that you can continue to nurture 758 00:41:56,685 --> 00:41:57,794 that relationship with them. 759 00:41:58,335 --> 00:42:02,265 Um, if it wasn't a gift, well then you're sort of within 760 00:42:02,444 --> 00:42:04,634 your standard retention flows. 761 00:42:05,504 --> 00:42:08,145 If you didn't do that, I mean, you could always just send out a 762 00:42:08,145 --> 00:42:13,050 campaign asking customers, Hey, was your recent order a gift or not. 763 00:42:13,050 --> 00:42:16,020 And then based off of that response, then you can start to 764 00:42:16,020 --> 00:42:17,340 personalize things a little bit. 765 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:18,180 Mm-hmm. 766 00:42:18,420 --> 00:42:26,370 . Uh, but I think the, the most powerful way I found to retain the, the Black Friday, 767 00:42:26,370 --> 00:42:33,450 Cyber Monday customers is to sort of dig in and split your customers out based 768 00:42:33,450 --> 00:42:40,290 off of those that are uh, heavily driven by incentive versus those that aren't. 769 00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:45,720 And you can do that by looking at like AOV lifetime value, um, number of 770 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:52,620 discount codes used, and then make sure that when you are sort of architecting 771 00:42:52,625 --> 00:42:57,150 your strategy of communication, uh, for December onwards, that you're 772 00:42:57,150 --> 00:42:59,279 taking that into, into account. 773 00:42:59,670 --> 00:43:04,660 Um, I think those are really the two, the two most powerful things. 774 00:43:05,020 --> 00:43:05,280 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 775 00:43:05,460 --> 00:43:06,465 No, very good. 776 00:43:06,765 --> 00:43:07,545 Very, very good. 777 00:43:07,545 --> 00:43:08,355 Thank you for that. 778 00:43:08,865 --> 00:43:09,165 Brandon. 779 00:43:09,165 --> 00:43:13,154 Listen, a question I like to ask all of our guests, uh, who have been on 780 00:43:13,154 --> 00:43:17,415 the podcast is, um, you've just given the best keynote speech of your life. 781 00:43:17,505 --> 00:43:21,315 Let's assume it's to, you know, the e-commerce cohort guys, because 782 00:43:21,315 --> 00:43:22,485 they sponsor the show, right? 783 00:43:22,485 --> 00:43:24,225 So you're in a hotel room, they're all sat there. 784 00:43:24,425 --> 00:43:26,575 You've done, you've delivered your keynote customer retention. 785 00:43:26,595 --> 00:43:27,315 They're all going wild. 786 00:43:27,955 --> 00:43:28,915 Well done, Brandon. 787 00:43:28,915 --> 00:43:29,395 That's awesome. 788 00:43:30,115 --> 00:43:31,435 Uh, they're all going a bit crazy. 789 00:43:31,585 --> 00:43:35,125 So you come on, you take your bow and you say, Listen, uh, all this 790 00:43:35,125 --> 00:43:40,404 is possible because of a person, a book, a film, a play, a podcast. 791 00:43:40,884 --> 00:43:44,365 Uh, who who do you thank, uh, at the end of that speech and why? 792 00:43:47,075 --> 00:43:47,194 Brandon Amoroso: Hmm. 793 00:43:48,805 --> 00:43:53,634 I'd say it'd probably have to be one of my, um, one of my mentors who helped 794 00:43:53,634 --> 00:43:59,415 me along the way with building electriq everything from the very non-glamorous 795 00:43:59,420 --> 00:44:04,455 side of things like payroll and accounting and, and the contracts and all that, 796 00:44:04,455 --> 00:44:08,115 just horrible, horrible stuff that I hopefully will never have to do again. 797 00:44:08,925 --> 00:44:16,125 um, Through the more like organizational strategic side of things, talking about 798 00:44:16,125 --> 00:44:21,464 things like, uh, institutionalizing process and procedure so that 799 00:44:21,555 --> 00:44:27,734 you can actually scale while not, uh, stifling, uh, innovation. 800 00:44:27,944 --> 00:44:31,605 And I think that was, that's one of the more important things that 801 00:44:31,605 --> 00:44:34,845 I've, that I've learned is like, process is extremely important. 802 00:44:34,935 --> 00:44:38,850 You can't have a 40 person company, I'd say you can't even really 803 00:44:38,850 --> 00:44:41,700 have a 20 person company without having like process guidelines. 804 00:44:41,910 --> 00:44:42,000 Mm-hmm. 805 00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:48,569 . But making sure that it's sort of drilled into the organizational 806 00:44:48,629 --> 00:44:52,169 culture that just because we have these process guidelines doesn't mean this 807 00:44:52,174 --> 00:44:54,419 is like how you need to be doing it. 808 00:44:54,900 --> 00:44:58,350 There's nuance and we want to continue to improve. 809 00:44:58,650 --> 00:45:01,710 And so if there's ways that this process should be changed for the better that 810 00:45:01,710 --> 00:45:06,180 that, that idea should be surfaced and brought through the organization. 811 00:45:06,510 --> 00:45:10,140 Because you see really, really large companies who they 812 00:45:10,145 --> 00:45:11,940 have process guidelines and. 813 00:45:12,495 --> 00:45:15,345 Like, that's just the way it is and they're not getting changed 814 00:45:15,345 --> 00:45:20,445 no matter what, which can be, uh, really demotivating for Yeah. 815 00:45:20,475 --> 00:45:24,915 For a team, I think if they aren't able to sort of help craft and shape 816 00:45:24,915 --> 00:45:26,685 whatever the organization is doing. 817 00:45:27,345 --> 00:45:31,695 Um, I think that was a long winded way of saying probably one of, 818 00:45:31,700 --> 00:45:33,615 uh, my mentors along the way. 819 00:45:34,575 --> 00:45:35,805 Matt Edmundson: And what's the name of your mentor? 820 00:45:37,395 --> 00:45:38,535 Brandon Amoroso: Uh, it would be Zach. 821 00:45:39,630 --> 00:45:43,410 Matt Edmundson: Zach, my, uh, my son is called Zach, so I just think it's 822 00:45:43,410 --> 00:45:44,610 one of the coolest names in the world. 823 00:45:44,610 --> 00:45:46,800 So Zach, if you're listening, thanks very much. 824 00:45:46,980 --> 00:45:48,090 Uh, much appreciate it. 825 00:45:48,630 --> 00:45:53,190 Now, it's fair to say, uh, Brandon, you are not new to the world of podcasting. 826 00:45:53,190 --> 00:45:55,560 You actually have your own podcast as well, don't you? 827 00:45:55,565 --> 00:45:57,060 Why don't you tell the good folks about that? 828 00:45:57,820 --> 00:46:01,680 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah, so the podcast I have is called the D2Z podcast. 829 00:46:02,070 --> 00:46:06,915 Um, it is a little bit e-commerce focused just because that's 830 00:46:06,915 --> 00:46:08,024 the industry that I'm in. 831 00:46:08,415 --> 00:46:13,035 But really what it's more about is, uh, organizational sort of culture 832 00:46:13,035 --> 00:46:17,654 and entrepreneurship and how to take maybe a different approach than 833 00:46:17,714 --> 00:46:20,024 companies have done, uh, historically. 834 00:46:20,265 --> 00:46:24,495 And a lot of that is based out of sort of the, the Gen Z mindset and spirit around 835 00:46:24,495 --> 00:46:30,000 like autonomy and, and ownership and creativity and so we'll bring on a lot 836 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,340 of, uh, founders from the software side of things, from the brand side to talk about 837 00:46:35,850 --> 00:46:41,400 growing from one person to five people to 10, to 20, to 50 to a hundred and so on. 838 00:46:41,730 --> 00:46:45,450 And what are some of the challenges, things that they learned along the way. 839 00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:51,570 Um, so a little bit more about business growth as a whole than super tactical 840 00:46:51,570 --> 00:46:52,950 in the weeds on the e-commerce side. 841 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:54,060 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 842 00:46:54,065 --> 00:46:54,720 Is it going well? 843 00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:55,370 You enjoying it? 844 00:46:56,370 --> 00:46:57,015 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah, it's been great. 845 00:46:57,015 --> 00:46:57,735 I've learned a lot. 846 00:46:57,795 --> 00:47:01,905 Um, there's been some episodes where I, I really take a lot away for myself. 847 00:47:01,935 --> 00:47:02,025 Mm-hmm. 848 00:47:02,435 --> 00:47:06,315 in terms of things that I might wanna try, uh, within, uh, electriq 849 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:10,634 or drinks or even just personal day-to-day stuff for, for myself. 850 00:47:11,235 --> 00:47:12,105 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I see. 851 00:47:12,105 --> 00:47:12,525 You're right. 852 00:47:12,525 --> 00:47:13,215 I'm the same way. 853 00:47:13,215 --> 00:47:16,905 I have a, a permanent notebook on my desk cuz I'm analog right. 854 00:47:17,085 --> 00:47:19,905 Uh, and so I'm constantly taking notes. 855 00:47:19,905 --> 00:47:24,045 And so I've drafted a few questions down, uh, from our conversation. 856 00:47:24,285 --> 00:47:27,775 And tomorrow I always record the podcast the day before I go into the office. 857 00:47:28,010 --> 00:47:32,570 So, uh, tomorrow I head into the office where we sit down with the teams and 858 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,020 It's just like, well, this is what I learned yesterday from 859 00:47:36,020 --> 00:47:37,520 my conversation with Brandon. 860 00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:38,900 So what are we gonna do about that? 861 00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:41,210 So, uh, I totally get your your point. 862 00:47:41,210 --> 00:47:44,300 I dunno who benefits more, whether it's listeners or whether it's me in these 863 00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:45,920 podcasts, but I, I really enjoy them. 864 00:47:47,180 --> 00:47:49,160 How do, um, how do people reach you? 865 00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:51,110 Uh, how do people get hold of you if they want to connect? 866 00:47:52,260 --> 00:47:52,470 . Brandon Amoroso: Yeah. 867 00:47:52,470 --> 00:47:55,960 So, uh, you can always go on LinkedIn, just Brandon Amoroso 868 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,410 or my website brandonamoroso.com. 869 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:03,810 Uh, if you are interested in potentially, uh, working with the agency, then it's 870 00:48:03,810 --> 00:48:08,550 electriqmarketing.com, but it's a q instead of the c at the end of electric. 871 00:48:09,060 --> 00:48:15,790 Um, Which sort of have a little bit of that Klaviyo clavio thing going on there. 872 00:48:15,790 --> 00:48:17,520 Matt Edmundson: Because this name was available. 873 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:17,820 Right. 874 00:48:17,820 --> 00:48:18,400 That's it. 875 00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:18,570 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah. 876 00:48:18,570 --> 00:48:22,440 The people never know how to say it, which actually has worked out well 877 00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:24,210 because it, then they remember it. 878 00:48:24,420 --> 00:48:24,630 Yeah. 879 00:48:24,634 --> 00:48:27,420 Versus if it was just a simple name then, and maybe they 880 00:48:27,425 --> 00:48:28,770 won't, it wouldn't be as sticky. 881 00:48:29,390 --> 00:48:31,620 Um, but yeah, those would be the two best avenues. 882 00:48:31,710 --> 00:48:32,980 Um, happy to help, Fantastic. 883 00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:34,259 Help chat through anything. 884 00:48:34,569 --> 00:48:35,370 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. 885 00:48:35,385 --> 00:48:37,965 Well, uh, you can reach out to Brandon at those. 886 00:48:37,965 --> 00:48:40,905 We will of course put all his links in our show notes, which you can get 887 00:48:40,905 --> 00:48:42,795 for free at ecommercepodcast.net. 888 00:48:43,065 --> 00:48:48,495 Or if you're on our email list, we will email those out direct to your inbox using 889 00:48:48,495 --> 00:48:52,515 the magic of customer retention marketing as we've been learning about today. 890 00:48:53,085 --> 00:48:56,835 Uh, so Brandon, thank you for joining me on the e-Commerce podcast. 891 00:48:56,895 --> 00:48:58,605 Honestly, man, it's been an absolute blast. 892 00:48:58,610 --> 00:49:01,355 Really, really appreciate you taking the time to join us today. 893 00:49:02,225 --> 00:49:02,805 Brandon Amoroso: Yeah, of course. 894 00:49:02,805 --> 00:49:03,524 Thanks for having me on. 895 00:49:03,975 --> 00:49:04,515 Matt Edmundson: No problem. 896 00:49:04,964 --> 00:49:06,674 So there you have it. 897 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,354 What a great conversation. 898 00:49:08,354 --> 00:49:12,495 Huge thanks again to Brandon for joining me today and of course, 899 00:49:12,495 --> 00:49:15,944 a big shout out to today's show sponsor, the e-commerce cohort. 900 00:49:15,944 --> 00:49:20,895 Do head over to ecommercecohort.com for more information about this new 901 00:49:21,125 --> 00:49:24,165 type of community that you can join. 902 00:49:24,555 --> 00:49:24,734 Now. 903 00:49:24,734 --> 00:49:28,814 Be sure to follow the e-commerce podcast wherever you get your podcast from because 904 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:33,450 we have more great conversations lined up just like today's one with Brandon. 905 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:37,440 I don't want you to miss any of them, so make sure you subscribe, uh, and in 906 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:42,780 case no one has told you today, dear listener, you my friend, are awesome. 907 00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:44,670 Yes, you are absolutely awesome. 908 00:49:44,940 --> 00:49:49,035 It is a burden we just have to bear. 909 00:49:50,145 --> 00:49:51,555 Just the way it is, just the way it is. 910 00:49:51,555 --> 00:49:52,605 Just something we've all gotta do. 911 00:49:52,605 --> 00:49:56,895 So, uh, the e-Commerce podcast is produced by Aurion Media. 912 00:49:57,165 --> 00:50:01,365 You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. 913 00:50:01,695 --> 00:50:05,925 Uh, the team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon, Josh Catchpole, Estella 914 00:50:05,930 --> 00:50:07,905 Robin, and the Mighty Tim Johnson. 915 00:50:08,275 --> 00:50:11,625 Our theme song has been written by Josh Edmundson and my good self. 916 00:50:11,955 --> 00:50:15,815 And as I mentioned, if you would like to read the transcript or show notes, head 917 00:50:15,815 --> 00:50:22,775 over to the website, ecommercepodcast.net, where coincidentally you can also 918 00:50:22,775 --> 00:50:25,025 sign up for our said newsletter. 919 00:50:25,444 --> 00:50:29,915 So all of that said, I think that is it from me. 920 00:50:29,915 --> 00:50:30,870 That is it from Brandon. 921 00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:32,825 Thank you so much for joining us. 922 00:50:33,125 --> 00:50:34,595 Uh, it's been great to have you with us. 923 00:50:34,595 --> 00:50:37,485 Have a fantastic week and I will see you next week. 924 00:50:38,415 --> 00:51:05,315 Bye for now.