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Glenn Harper:
Hello, everybody. Glenn Harper here.

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Julie Smith:
And Julie Smith.

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Glenn Harper:
For another edition of the Harper Empowering Entrepreneurs

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podcast. Today we've got a great guest named Glen Dunlap.

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Totally cool name, by the way.

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A fellow entrepreneur who of course has multiple companies.

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One is peer view data and analytics, analytics and advisory

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platform for accounting firms headquarters in Indianapolis,

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Indiana. And in his spare time, he runs big league tours

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four for the Major League Baseball that provides an

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opportunity to tour the great ballparks and catch a great

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baseball game at the same time.

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Thanks, Glenn, for being part of the show today.

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Glenn Dunlap:
Thank you, Glenn. Thank you, Julie.

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Look forward to being with you.

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Glenn Harper:
That's exciting.

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You've got two very different businesses, but they have

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this one thing in common and that would be data.

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Glenn Dunlap:
We do have data involved.

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Yes, that's right.

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Glenn Harper:
I suspect when the movie Moneyball came out, you were

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jonesing for that, huh?

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You're one of those guys?

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Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, it's it's it is fun.

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I mean, probably more so from a fan perspective was just

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kind of fun to see some of the things and sort of see

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inside baseball even more, which was which was definitely a

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fun thing. But it's it is fun.

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And you can combine your loves in different ways, right?

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Glenn Harper:
Again, people just don't find joy in numbers.

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But there's some of us out there that just do.

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And you're one of those guys.

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Apparently, so.

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That's good. Yeah. Yeah.

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So I've got a I got a all the fans have asked me to ask

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this question today and and this is a serious question.

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But what tastes better?

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A hotdog in a ballpark or a steak in a classy steakhouse?

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Glenn Dunlap:
I would say that it depends on who you're with.

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Glenn Harper:
Gotcha.

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Glenn Dunlap:
I think hot dog in a ballpark can be one of the best meals

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ever. Agreed.

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Yeah, but. But if you're with lousy company, a steak

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restaurant could be the worst meal ever.

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Glenn Harper:
Agreed. Are you a are you a major league baseball fan?

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A football fan or you like chess?

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Glenn Dunlap:
It's like, I don't know.

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Do you like bicycles or elephants?

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That's right. So, yeah, the baseball fan through and

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through. I mean, that's been my favorite sport.

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I do love basketball.

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Probably is my is my second favorite sport.

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But it may be the only sport to watch if I'm serious here.

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Which is which is another tough season for baseball fans.

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Glenn Harper:
Can't they figure it out that people just want to have a get

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away from it all and just watch a game and not deal with

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the controversy? How hard is that for these guys to

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understand?

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Glenn Dunlap:
Well, evidently, very difficult.

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Glenn Harper:
Yeah, it seems that way.

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So in your spare time, do you like do all that Amazon stat,

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that data?

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Is that what you study to for fun or is it mostly just the

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analytical stuff that you do in both of your companies?

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Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, I don't really do too much.

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I well, first of all, I'm kind of obsessive compulsive, so

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I don't really I've never allowed myself to do a fantasy

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team or to do anything like that because I just I know what

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would happen. It would just be this endless spiral.

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So I just. I don't even start.

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So. So I've never done that for any sport and won't.

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And so I don't.

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But I do enjoy taking a look at the look at stats and

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having some fun with that.

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Glenn Harper:
Yeah, a man's got to know his limitations, that's for sure.

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Well, do you want to share a little bit about what your

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business is doing? How they do it?

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Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. Yeah. Any.

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Any preference in order or.

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No.

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Glenn Harper:
Pick whichever one you like.

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Glenn Dunlap:
Well, we're talking let's talk baseball, because I think the

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rest of the time we'll talk about peer.

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So, you know, several years ago, I went through a program

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at at our church, which was before I die, I want to and it

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wasn't all about bucket list stuff.

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It was also about leaving a legacy and mentoring the poor.

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You, too. So it was it was more meaningful stuff than

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Bucket List, but there was a bucket list column of things.

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And one of those things was I said I wanted to go visit all

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30 stadiums with my dad and my son.

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Because when you when you phrase something like Before I

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die, that really puts a different spin on it, right?

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So when I did that, I thought, you know, I'm not going to

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have my dad forever and my son's not going to think I'm

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cool for much longer, so I better get this done.

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So I started to look at how I could do it.

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And, you know, this is a common theme for me that I didn't

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like how other people were doing it.

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So I felt like I could build a better mousetrap.

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And that's kind of what I did.

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Nice. So in 2006 launched big league tours and we started

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providing baseball tours to fans.

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And really the premise was I'd gone on group tours before

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and didn't really like it.

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I was in France with a group tour at my French club in high

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school, and at 15 they dropped us off at the Louvre and

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said, You've got 2 hours, we'll pick you up right back

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here. And I'm thinking that even at 15, I'm kind of like 2

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hours, you know, we could spend days in here.

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So I kept thinking, I'll never do another group tour.

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Right now I own a group tour company.

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Right. So the thing is, is that we build in things that

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that provide the benefits of being with a group when you

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can't. So we get behind the scenes tours at stadiums.

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We sit in great seats, we know where to stay in the cities,

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that kind of thing. But we also give you a lot of

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flexibility to go out and do other things.

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So if you've been to New York a bunch of times, you don't

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want to be on the same double decker bus tour that you've

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been on before. So you get a lot of flexibility.

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If you've not been to the 911 Museum or whatever, you can

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go do those things on your own and we help people out with

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that. But we just try to build in where it's the best to

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take advantage of the tickets, the relationships, the

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knowing where to stay and helping people kind of make those

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choices.

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Glenn Harper:
So is it a is it a standard like tour each one, or do you

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mix it up every year?

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Glenn Dunlap:
We have some pretty common ones.

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Our most popular tour is Fenway Park, the Hall of Fame of

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Cooperstown, Yankee Stadium and Citi Field.

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So that's the one call Hall of Fame tour.

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And we can do that package multiple times each year.

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So it's it just depends on the on the schedule when the

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teams are in town and how we can set those things up as to

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what our options are.

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But we work through those packages and we're going to do

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the East Coast, Mid East, Midwest, West Coast stuff, south

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and Southwest. So those are pretty common.

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Glenn Harper:
Isn't it funny? You know, you went on a tour like we all

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have been on tours and they really just kind of suck.

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You're just herd of cattle running through places and you

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don't even get a chance to pause and reflect and look at

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anything. And and there's that entrepreneurial spirit that

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just hit you. I said, You know what?

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I can do this better.

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Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. And it's it's it's interesting.

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I mean, you know, you see.

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You know, like we go through the stadium tours at all the

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different parks where we can.

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Sometimes it's good to allow and it certainly has changed

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that. But as you're going through the tour, you get you get

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the security guards that are just pushing people through,

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pushing people through a tour.

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And I you know, at first I used to get upset about that.

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And then I now ask the security guards and how have you

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worked here? And they'll tell me anywhere from six months

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to 36 years.

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And so you've seen this a time or two?

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Oh, God, yeah, I've seen this.

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But you know what? This is the first time.

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You know, let's let's let's chill out a little bit.

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Let's calm down. And they're like, oh, yeah, okay.

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They kind of forget, you know, I live here every day, you

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know? So it's kind of one of those where you kind of go,

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let's just let them enjoy this for a second.

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You know, there's the next tour will happen when that

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happens.

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Glenn Harper:
Thanks. Lighten up, Francis.

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We got this.

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Glenn Dunlap:
Right. Exactly.

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Glenn Harper:
Sweet. Let me talk about your other company.

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Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. So, you know, private data we started seven years ago

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was was actually just sort of born out of my experience in

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in working with entrepreneurial companies.

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Most of my career, I've done part time CFO, corporate

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finance kinds of things, forecasting, modeling, doing

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financial projections and doing business plans, strategic

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plans, also helping companies with debt and equity

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placements. And when you're doing that work, you get asked

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the question a lot of times, what do you see other

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companies like me? How fast are they growing?

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How much are they spending on health insurance and how bad

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is their turnover? And just think questions that you would

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you would get in besides sort of anecdotal information

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like, okay, we've got, you know, however many other clients

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that maybe are in this space, I can kind of answer that and

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kind of come up with some, some things around those things.

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But, you know, it's always one of the things that just kept

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in the back of my mind somebody needs to do a better job

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with this. And I was a user of some of the other apps, but

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I just I didn't like how they were doing it.

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You know, as a, for instance, the banks use the RMB, a the

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risk management association stuff and it's, it's great for

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their purposes, but if you're trying to make it a different

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business decision off of it, you don't have four line items

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for the revenue cause net income.

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You're not going to change anything based on those four

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line items. So it doesn't really give you the details to

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dig into their data and to understand it.

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So that's why it was just kind of one of those things that

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I kept saying, somebody needs to do a better job of this

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and better job of this. And that's how we how we get

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started. And there's a phrase that I have I'm not the

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person who originated that somebody else said it, but it

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was a phrase that I've just adopted.

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And that is you have to be willing to say the phrase this

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may not work, but.

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Right. And so I went to some of my former clients and said,

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you know, hey, this may not work, but and they went, Yeah,

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let's do it. So 15 we started with professional services

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companies and ask them, they said, What do you need?

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So let me have three or four years of financial data.

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So they gave me a balance sheet and so we compiled that

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data and went back to them and they all kind of went, you

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know, if you don't really have 15 or 20 law firms or ad

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agencies or software development companies in engineering

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firms, then we don't know how comparable this is.

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If you've got three of each of us said, Well, we don't

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know, it may not work, but let's try it.

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So we did. And we went back to them and all of them said,

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Oh, this is great.

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We would pay you for this kind of thing.

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You kind of go, Okay, well, maybe we're on to something.

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So, you know, so we started at kind of a high level like

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that and knew that we would have to start there and then

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kind of drill into it. But we, we started with, with that

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in mind and then we kind of grew from there.

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Glenn Harper:
How big of, you know, different entrepreneurs, different

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sizes, you know, they just need different services and data

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and advice and what not, what size company that is your

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services kind of tailored to is this like a 20 and under

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employee? This is 100 and under employee.

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This is a $10 million company.

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And above, where do you think that sweet spot is?

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Glenn Dunlap:
You know, I think really the sweet spot for most business

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owners using this kind of data would be, I would say, firms

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that are probably not quite as internally sophisticated,

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that they don't have a ton of stuff.

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So I would say some of the lower end of that spectrum with

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the exception that we see.

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So our our clients are CPA firms.

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So we're working with firms across the country and we kind

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of went in through different doors.

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Initially, it was kind of everybody would push us to the

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audit team that, hey, they need analytics for the audit, so

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this could be helpful on the front end.

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So, so we started working with audit teams there and most

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audits are going to be larger firms.

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So it's not a small firm.

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So are the users inside the firm at that?

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Not typically. I would say it's more for the CPA firm using

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it. So we have a lot of data for firms that are 10 million,

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50 million, hundred million and up because of that that

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pathway. What's transitioned is is that as we've gotten

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more granular in our data, then it started to come where

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firms that are doing client accounting, advisory services

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practices, they've connected their clients QuickBooks

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Online files as a for instance.

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And so now that data is coming in monthly.

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And so you see $1,000,000 demo practices that are getting

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data every month from their CPA firm that shows them not

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only how they're doing or how they did last month, but how

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did the rest of the profession do and how do I compare to

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that? And they can sort that by size or geography by

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specialty, and start to look at some comparisons from that

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standpoint. So it changes that conversation and I'd say

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there are different uses for it and we've got people across

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the spectrum using the database.

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Glenn Harper:
Sounds weird that you're suggesting that, you know, I could

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look at somebody else's data and predict my own.

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I mean, that's that sounds like poppycock.

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Is that is that true?

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Yeah. Well, you know, let's not dance around it.

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Let's get right to it. Right. Go right to the pie.

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No, it's a it's an amazing thing.

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You know, I see a lot of entrepreneurs.

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They are so busy doing their work that they really never

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have a lot of time to analyze those things.

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And I guess what you're suggesting is that when this goes

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to the CPAs, the CPAs can have a high level quick

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conversation, say, hey, by the way, Bob, here's where

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you're stand with firms your size doing this kind of thing.

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And this might help you out a little bit.

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And it just gives them a chance to maybe pause and reflect

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and go, oh, wow. Wonder why that's so high, why that's so

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low, and just see if they're in the range.

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Right? Because people just they always want to compare,

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right? Everybody wants to know how they're doing.

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The competition.

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Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. You know, so we part of what motivated me to do this

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was, you know, prior to launching Peer Review, I was a

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partner in an outsourced accounting firm in Indianapolis.

295
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But Milestone Advisors, it's it's a transition.

296
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And actually the firm that firm sold to a larger fair

297
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amount of Oregon recently or California.

298
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But they when we when I right before I left, we had two or

299
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300 companies that we were servicing on a monthly basis

300
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where we had 30 employees and we were doing the day in, day

301
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out accounting stuff. And one of the things that happened

302
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was that through the 2008 2009 economic downturn, we would

303
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see firms inside the same industry, firms that were killing

304
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it and firms that were being killed.

305
00:14:34,420 --> 00:14:36,370
And yet they all used the same language.

306
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You know, it was from a public perspective, they were all

307
00:14:38,590 --> 00:14:42,070
saying, you know, that's the new up or 20% down flat and

308
00:14:42,370 --> 00:14:45,310
working harder and smarter and less to show for it.

309
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And all those things that were the, you know, the kind of

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the common sort of public persona phrases that people were

311
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using. And my partners and I were all looking at each other

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like, this doesn't hold up.

313
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You know, there are people that are doing really well in

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this space. And so we kept saying, you know, there's got to

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this is kind of the thing that, you know, there's got to be

316
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a way for business owners to really understand what's

317
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happening in their space rather than it being something

318
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that's just, you know, all the lies that we tell each other

319
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at cocktail parties, how good or bad we think it's going or

320
00:15:17,110 --> 00:15:19,660
what we think we're supposed to say when we're when we're

321
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out in that space. And so, you know, if you were killing

322
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it, you didn't really want to tell everybody, you're

323
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killing it, you're being killed.

324
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You also didn't really want to admit that either.

325
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So, you know, this was a way to plug in and say, okay, now

326
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:36,220
I can at least see with without anybody's sort of public

327
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face, there's no varnish on this.

328
00:15:38,020 --> 00:15:41,950
This is just the the data that says that here's how 100

329
00:15:41,950 --> 00:15:45,010
other or 250 other companies are doing in my in my

330
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vertical. And then I can sort out from that.

331
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What does that mean to me?

332
00:15:49,690 --> 00:15:52,540
You know, I don't I don't sit here and profess that

333
00:15:52,540 --> 00:15:56,200
benchmarks are the best thing in the world and that, you

334
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,770
know, that you should you should try to mirror those at all

335
00:15:59,770 --> 00:16:04,660
costs. But as you said, Glenn, they're really a way to kind

336
00:16:04,660 --> 00:16:07,830
of reflect and say, here's what we're saying.

337
00:16:08,470 --> 00:16:11,320
We can accept that. Here's where we're different maybe why?

338
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What could we learn from that?

339
00:16:12,430 --> 00:16:15,190
And maybe some of those things are things that you would

340
00:16:15,190 --> 00:16:18,010
want to change and other things that you wouldn't.

341
00:16:18,010 --> 00:16:21,940
You know, a common thing we see is my my margins are

342
00:16:21,940 --> 00:16:22,990
dramatically different.

343
00:16:23,230 --> 00:16:25,780
My material costs are higher, my labor costs are different.

344
00:16:25,780 --> 00:16:28,420
I've got labor costs below the line versus the things above

345
00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:29,770
the line in.

346
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,010
And so I'm growing really quickly.

347
00:16:33,010 --> 00:16:35,200
But my my net profits are thin.

348
00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,870
So are there things that if I understood the cost better,

349
00:16:37,870 --> 00:16:40,540
what I did differently, what can I learn from that?

350
00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:44,380
And it's we can all say that we're our business is so

351
00:16:44,380 --> 00:16:46,210
unique that we can't compare to anybody else.

352
00:16:46,210 --> 00:16:48,640
But the reality is, is that there are a lot of ways that we

353
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:53,920
can we can compare and learn and and try to figure out, is

354
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,380
this something I need to do something different about or is

355
00:16:56,380 --> 00:16:59,440
this just something that versus making a strategic,

356
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:01,990
intentional decision to continue down this path?

357
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,420
Julie Smith:
So, Glenn, I want to pivot a little bit and I want to take

358
00:17:04,420 --> 00:17:05,770
you back in time.

359
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,980
When did you know you wanted to be an entrepreneur?

360
00:17:08,980 --> 00:17:11,860
I've heard a couple of stories and I really love them.

361
00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:14,050
So I'm hoping I get the same one from you.

362
00:17:18,050 --> 00:17:21,950
Glenn Dunlap:
I think that I know probably early.

363
00:17:22,190 --> 00:17:24,350
I don't know that I necessarily knew early.

364
00:17:24,350 --> 00:17:28,520
But I will I will tell you, I grew up in a really small

365
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:34,070
town in central Indiana, and that's where my parents had

366
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grown up. They knew a lot of people.

367
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:38,870
And so my dad, when I was probably.

368
00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:42,870
You know, fourth grade or something like that took me took

369
00:17:42,870 --> 00:17:45,630
me into town and into town.

370
00:17:45,630 --> 00:17:46,770
I mean, there's a lot of people.

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Glenn Harper:
So it's a big deal, though.

372
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It is going to town.

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Glenn Dunlap:
In the town. And we were in a truck and we had a push

374
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forward, a gas canister back.

375
00:17:55,020 --> 00:17:58,620
Right. And so my dad took me around and we stopped and he

376
00:17:58,620 --> 00:18:01,320
would say, okay, this is Wayne McMahon.

377
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:03,690
I went to school with his daughter, Pat, you know, and

378
00:18:03,690 --> 00:18:06,600
like, okay, Wayne's yard has been mowed for a couple of

379
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,910
weeks. You know, come back here and talk to Wayne.

380
00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:12,000
Took me to the next house, said, this is so-and-so,

381
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,230
so-and-so. There you are.

382
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,060
He's he's laid up, you know, something?

383
00:18:15,060 --> 00:18:16,890
So, you know, come back here.

384
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,250
Took me around to I don't remember how many homes, but then

385
00:18:20,250 --> 00:18:22,740
he drove me around and showed me different homes, took me

386
00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:27,750
back to the first house and dropped me off and said, Do as

387
00:18:27,750 --> 00:18:29,490
many of these yards as you can and I'll pick you up the

388
00:18:29,490 --> 00:18:30,750
last spot at the end of the day.

389
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:32,040
Glenn Harper:
Fantastic.

390
00:18:32,370 --> 00:18:37,140
Glenn Dunlap:
Just drop me up. And I was like, okay, you know, so had to

391
00:18:37,140 --> 00:18:38,550
go up and knock on the door.

392
00:18:38,580 --> 00:18:41,670
The old guys with the cigars coming to the door to talk to

393
00:18:41,670 --> 00:18:43,440
you and scared the crap out of me.

394
00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:47,250
And then I had to sort of size up what I was going to, how

395
00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:49,740
long he's going to take me and figure out and then ask them

396
00:18:49,740 --> 00:18:52,590
to get paid and go back up and ask for the money and go to

397
00:18:52,590 --> 00:18:54,330
the next house and do that all the way around.

398
00:18:54,330 --> 00:18:56,490
And I didn't know any of these people from Adam.

399
00:18:56,490 --> 00:18:57,750
They didn't really know me.

400
00:18:57,750 --> 00:19:02,340
I would explain who my dad was and they would say, Yeah, do

401
00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:04,920
the yard or not, scram, kid, you know?

402
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,500
And so end of the day, he came back.

403
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:08,590
How'd you do? You know, and I.

404
00:19:08,820 --> 00:19:13,200
Well, I told him and and then those became that that was

405
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:17,820
the start of that. And so that was something that I did all

406
00:19:17,820 --> 00:19:20,250
the way until I went into college and then had to pass that

407
00:19:20,250 --> 00:19:20,460
on.

408
00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:23,940
Glenn Harper:
So did your does your dad, was he an entrepreneur or did he

409
00:19:23,940 --> 00:19:25,280
work for a company or.

410
00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:29,940
You just it's just the opposite of my dad was my dad worked

411
00:19:29,940 --> 00:19:33,720
for General Motors, was a committeeman and labor union was

412
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,440
you know, my dad would work circles around anybody but, you

413
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,970
know, was was part of the club.

414
00:19:39,970 --> 00:19:43,920
But from a union standpoint and, you know, I'd always ask

415
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,890
him like that, you know, you'll work anybody out.

416
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,020
How can you accept that you got the same raise as the guy

417
00:19:49,020 --> 00:19:50,880
that's sleeping over there?

418
00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:53,160
He's like, that's just that's how it is, you know?

419
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,210
And I'm like, I don't get.

420
00:19:55,230 --> 00:19:57,600
It. Do you think he was probably yeah.

421
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,750
Do you think he probably saw something that he didn't want

422
00:20:00,750 --> 00:20:03,900
you to go into that and he saw something in you and said,

423
00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:07,260
Hey, I think Glen is going to be a little more self

424
00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:09,330
sufficient and going to hustle on his own.

425
00:20:09,420 --> 00:20:11,790
Do you think he saw that or he just was like messing with

426
00:20:11,790 --> 00:20:13,290
you? Because, you know, dads do that kind of stuff.

427
00:20:13,290 --> 00:20:15,210
They they never really know where they're coming from.

428
00:20:15,210 --> 00:20:16,410
They're like spider monkeys, right?

429
00:20:16,410 --> 00:20:20,400
Glenn Dunlap:
But yeah, you know, my dad my dad has always worked and

430
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,770
worked hard. He did the same when he was in junior high in

431
00:20:22,770 --> 00:20:27,930
high school. And, you know, it was kind of he was second of

432
00:20:27,930 --> 00:20:31,290
six kids. And I think it was out of necessity for them.

433
00:20:31,290 --> 00:20:33,030
It wasn't quite necessity for us.

434
00:20:33,030 --> 00:20:35,520
But I think he also thought this was a good thing to to

435
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,600
build work ethic and and just to go after it and to, you

436
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,150
know, to to start early and to do those things.

437
00:20:42,150 --> 00:20:44,580
And if I wasn't doing that, I was baling hay or hoeing

438
00:20:44,580 --> 00:20:49,260
fields or whatever that it's a farming community so that

439
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,480
the things that you had around in that space.

440
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:56,670
But, but it really actually taught you early that I've got

441
00:20:56,670 --> 00:20:59,430
this, this customer and I'm going to take care of them and

442
00:20:59,430 --> 00:21:02,040
they're expecting me to do this and I need to get paid to

443
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,660
do this. So I need to ask them for money.

444
00:21:03,660 --> 00:21:06,510
And so those were all the things that were kind of early

445
00:21:06,510 --> 00:21:11,760
on. And so sort of I know it's that's part of the story, I

446
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,540
guess, is that, you know, I'm a piano player and I, you

447
00:21:15,540 --> 00:21:18,210
know, when I was going through high school, I really

448
00:21:18,210 --> 00:21:20,490
thought I was going to graduate and move to New York,

449
00:21:20,490 --> 00:21:23,040
Nashville or LA and just try to make it music business.

450
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:25,950
And that was that was all I had my sights on.

451
00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,550
And my parents were like, Yeah, you can do that, but we want

452
00:21:29,550 --> 00:21:32,070
you to get a four year education first and then you can go

453
00:21:32,070 --> 00:21:35,730
to New York, Nashville, or which that was best advice I've

454
00:21:35,730 --> 00:21:41,760
gotten so far. So in college I worked at Cedar Point, which

455
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,800
is you guys surely so I worked at Cedar Point a couple of

456
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:49,800
summers playing shows, playing piano and shows up there.

457
00:21:50,250 --> 00:21:53,190
And it was my second summer up there that, you know, you're

458
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:55,950
kind of on break. And all these performers that are singing

459
00:21:56,100 --> 00:22:01,500
and there's a there's a guy there and he's 35 and I'm what,

460
00:22:01,770 --> 00:22:06,450
1920? And he's teaching school, working at Cedar Point in

461
00:22:06,450 --> 00:22:08,580
the summers and still trying to make it in the music

462
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:11,460
business. And it kind of had one of those moments where I'm

463
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:13,980
sitting there looking at this guy like, I don't want to be

464
00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:16,500
that guy. I don't want to be that guy.

465
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,250
And so I went back to school and I was an entrepreneurship

466
00:22:20,250 --> 00:22:24,180
major at State and I just went headlong I'd been doing

467
00:22:24,180 --> 00:22:25,350
major at that point.

468
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:29,130
I just took the music theory minor that I'd already gotten

469
00:22:29,190 --> 00:22:33,480
that. Yeah, that's that's something I'll always have.

470
00:22:33,660 --> 00:22:37,710
But it's a heads down entrepreneurship degree from this

471
00:22:37,710 --> 00:22:40,880
point forward. And not even really thinking I was going to

472
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,210
be knowing that I would start a business, but just that I

473
00:22:44,210 --> 00:22:46,700
loved it. How did you pick starting?

474
00:22:47,390 --> 00:22:48,650
Glenn Harper:
How did you start?

475
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,720
How did you go to school for an entrepreneurial degree?

476
00:22:51,260 --> 00:22:52,820
Does that even exist? We have that here.

477
00:22:52,820 --> 00:22:54,140
I don't even know if that existed.

478
00:22:54,140 --> 00:22:55,820
I mean, this is probably what back in the fifties?

479
00:22:55,820 --> 00:22:57,040
Sixties. When did you go to school?

480
00:22:57,050 --> 00:22:57,860
I don't even know.

481
00:22:58,730 --> 00:22:58,950
Julie Smith:
Yeah.

482
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:03,620
Glenn Harper:
Any time. I think I saw you in that that one movie,

483
00:23:03,650 --> 00:23:05,740
Hoosiers. Maybe you were playing in the game, and that was

484
00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:06,600
in the small town.

485
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:07,760
Glenn Dunlap:
See, Glenn, I prepped you.

486
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,190
I prepped you for this, okay?

487
00:23:09,530 --> 00:23:09,700
Yeah.

488
00:23:09,930 --> 00:23:13,130
Glenn Harper:
No. Again, I don't even know that was an option, right?

489
00:23:13,130 --> 00:23:14,060
I mean, how did you pick.

490
00:23:14,060 --> 00:23:17,750
Glenn Dunlap:
That small town was the small town in Indiana wasn't mine.

491
00:23:18,510 --> 00:23:21,170
So. But I didn't know about it.

492
00:23:21,170 --> 00:23:22,820
I didn't know about the entrepreneurship degree.

493
00:23:23,060 --> 00:23:25,880
When you go to school, then then I don't know when they

494
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,670
have you declare now, but back then you had to do a rule of

495
00:23:28,670 --> 00:23:31,280
11 or rule of nine. You had to finish all of this sort of

496
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,560
stuff in your first two years and then you declared your

497
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:39,650
major. So somewhere along the way, that was a guy that I

498
00:23:39,650 --> 00:23:42,230
was in a group with at at Ball State.

499
00:23:42,230 --> 00:23:45,290
We're out on the loading dock one day and he says, What are

500
00:23:45,290 --> 00:23:47,210
you what are you studying? And I go, I don't know.

501
00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:49,580
I haven't declared yet. And he goes, You need to be an

502
00:23:49,580 --> 00:23:50,600
entrepreneurship major.

503
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,920
Like, I don't even know how to spell it and say, What are

504
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,560
you talking about? And he said, Yeah, he's my wife's

505
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,690
involved in this thing. And he said, Yeah, you go over

506
00:23:59,690 --> 00:24:01,760
there and he goes, I got this.

507
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,950
You go over there right now and declare that as your major.

508
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,740
And I was like, I don't even know what it is.

509
00:24:06,740 --> 00:24:09,380
So I went over there and looked at it and I was like, Well,

510
00:24:09,380 --> 00:24:10,580
this sounds kind of interesting.

511
00:24:10,580 --> 00:24:12,860
And then I signed up for the class.

512
00:24:13,460 --> 00:24:16,730
I took the intro class, I bought as I bought the book, I

513
00:24:16,730 --> 00:24:18,170
read it cover to cover the first line.

514
00:24:18,170 --> 00:24:22,610
I'd never done that with a school textbook ever, and was

515
00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:24,470
like, Wow, this is this is it.

516
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:25,670
This was what I wanted to do.

517
00:24:26,180 --> 00:24:29,660
Glenn Harper:
So that's so literally you must have had this is probably in

518
00:24:29,660 --> 00:24:31,730
your genes somehow that you had to be an entrepreneur and

519
00:24:31,730 --> 00:24:33,350
you had to figure out how to get it out of that.

520
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:34,880
Your dad was trying to get out this guy.

521
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,370
I mean, imagine if somebody said you should be in like, you

522
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:39,980
know, Roman art history or something.

523
00:24:39,980 --> 00:24:41,720
I mean, where would you be today?

524
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:42,950
Think about that.

525
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:44,900
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, that's right. That's right.

526
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:47,330
Or I would still be outside of the loop, but I would be

527
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:48,080
selling those little.

528
00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:49,640
Glenn Harper:
Selling the little guys.

529
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,920
Right. And God forbid you go in and get an accounting

530
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,390
degree. That'd be horrible.

531
00:24:53,690 --> 00:24:55,820
I can't imagine what you two turned out to be.

532
00:24:57,170 --> 00:25:00,020
Glenn Dunlap:
You know, I tell you, the funny story about that is that I.

533
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,240
I absolutely hated accounting when I went through.

534
00:25:02,390 --> 00:25:04,100
Glenn Harper:
You're killing me. I'm sitting right here.

535
00:25:04,970 --> 00:25:06,200
Glenn Dunlap:
Well, I know, I know.

536
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,960
But the thing was, was that I'm in.

537
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:11,870
Show me the big picture first and then I can.

538
00:25:11,870 --> 00:25:15,260
And I didn't get that when I went through, you know, your

539
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,240
debits and credits and t accounts.

540
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,960
And my whole thing was, oh my God, this is make work, this

541
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,090
is busy work. I'll hire somebody to do this crap.

542
00:25:23,090 --> 00:25:24,560
I'll never do this in my life.

543
00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:27,200
Yeah. Famous last words, right?

544
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:31,970
Surprise. But when I went to my when I went through the

545
00:25:31,970 --> 00:25:34,190
senior class where we had to write a business plan and it

546
00:25:34,190 --> 00:25:36,230
was pass or fail, you got you either got an A and

547
00:25:36,230 --> 00:25:38,540
graduated, you got an F and had to stick around another

548
00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:40,670
year because it didn't they didn't offer the course until

549
00:25:40,670 --> 00:25:41,840
the spring the next year.

550
00:25:42,170 --> 00:25:45,050
So a lot of pressure on to to get it done.

551
00:25:45,050 --> 00:25:48,540
And when I built the forecast for that, it was kind of like

552
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,150
income statement, cash flow statement, balance sheet.

553
00:25:50,150 --> 00:25:51,950
You know, I'm saying, wait a minute, this is the balance

554
00:25:51,950 --> 00:25:53,780
sheet. This this comes from over here.

555
00:25:53,780 --> 00:25:55,370
This is how those are interrelated.

556
00:25:55,370 --> 00:25:57,440
And then all of a sudden it became like, well, this makes

557
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,620
sense to me now. It's like, you know, all the way through.

558
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:06,890
I hadn't got it because when the when the story problems

559
00:26:06,890 --> 00:26:09,680
say, you know, let's say you're a payables clerk inside

560
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,710
Ford Motor Company, I'm like, I would jump off the highest

561
00:26:12,730 --> 00:26:13,310
kill now.

562
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:14,540
Glenn Harper:
Kill me now.

563
00:26:14,540 --> 00:26:17,570
Glenn Dunlap:
If that was I just couldn't I couldn't picture myself doing

564
00:26:17,570 --> 00:26:19,430
it. And then I just I would shut it off.

565
00:26:19,430 --> 00:26:21,170
I'm like not not going to be that guy.

566
00:26:22,370 --> 00:26:26,990
Glenn Harper:
Now, it's funny that accounting now, you know, there is the

567
00:26:26,990 --> 00:26:29,750
actual date that has to happen and data entry and whatever.

568
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:33,650
But most accounts now it's that's not where your value is.

569
00:26:33,650 --> 00:26:36,410
It's all in interpreting and trying to predict the future.

570
00:26:36,410 --> 00:26:38,750
And again, you're helping with that by having those data

571
00:26:38,750 --> 00:26:40,040
analytics to do so.

572
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,390
How does you know, we're I'm always fascinated with

573
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:45,980
entrepreneurs, how they get started and what they're doing,

574
00:26:45,980 --> 00:26:49,010
how they do it. And and it just your story just is it's

575
00:26:49,010 --> 00:26:52,100
amazing, right? It's it's very like everybody else is just

576
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:55,040
a whole different path. But, you know, what do you

577
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,430
actually, you know, do you have any bad habits that you

578
00:26:58,430 --> 00:27:00,260
have to support? And that's why you went into an

579
00:27:00,260 --> 00:27:02,780
entrepreneur system, because you can't really go and do a

580
00:27:02,780 --> 00:27:04,880
real job and get paid a fixed amount.

581
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,520
You have to have that wiggle room to go do your thing and

582
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,490
have that freedom, I should say, perceived freedom.

583
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,510
What is it that you know?

584
00:27:12,620 --> 00:27:14,000
When did you decide that? That's it.

585
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,290
I'm not working for the man anymore.

586
00:27:15,290 --> 00:27:16,370
I'm doing my own thing.

587
00:27:17,550 --> 00:27:21,710
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. I think it was.

588
00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:22,850
It was, you know.

589
00:27:23,820 --> 00:27:28,260
I was at a consulting firm before I left and joined, and we

590
00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:33,030
launched Milestone Advisors in 2003, and it was when I had

591
00:27:33,030 --> 00:27:37,320
the fourth managing partner in in the beginning of the

592
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:38,790
fourth year that I was there.

593
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:44,640
The fourth different compensation structure and stuff.

594
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,230
And it just was this moving piece.

595
00:27:46,590 --> 00:27:49,980
And candidly, it was they came to me and said, when I when

596
00:27:49,980 --> 00:27:54,420
I started in this job, it was it was a consulting firm that

597
00:27:54,420 --> 00:27:56,430
was owned by a law firm. So think about late, late

598
00:27:56,430 --> 00:27:59,160
nineties. You had all the tech stuff that was going on.

599
00:27:59,340 --> 00:28:04,350
You had all the high growth stuff and dotcom stuff that was

600
00:28:04,740 --> 00:28:08,310
crazy, right? And so the law firms had all formed

601
00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:10,530
consulting companies because they felt like they were

602
00:28:10,530 --> 00:28:12,030
giving up all that revenue.

603
00:28:12,210 --> 00:28:15,090
So this was a consulting company owned by a law firm.

604
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,330
And when I went to work there, they set my compensation

605
00:28:18,330 --> 00:28:21,960
structure up, thinking that 90% of the revenue would come

606
00:28:22,380 --> 00:28:25,380
as referrals to me from the law firm and 10% I would need

607
00:28:25,380 --> 00:28:26,580
to go generate on my own.

608
00:28:27,210 --> 00:28:29,580
And they came to me when the when the fourth managing

609
00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:31,650
partner started, they came to me and said, hey, we did an

610
00:28:31,650 --> 00:28:35,760
analysis of the revenue and you know how much you've

611
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:37,220
generated us? I don't know.

612
00:28:37,740 --> 00:28:40,260
And they said, well, you know, we thought it was 9010.

613
00:28:40,470 --> 00:28:42,390
Yeah, they go, Well, it sort of is.

614
00:28:42,390 --> 00:28:46,230
But 93% of the revenue you've generated in 7% came from law

615
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:50,460
firms. And so then they go, Yeah, we want we want you to be

616
00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:52,170
the sales guy for the firm.

617
00:28:52,170 --> 00:28:53,970
And I went, Yeah, no.

618
00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:55,950
Glenn Harper:
I don't do sales. I'm not a sales guy.

619
00:28:56,460 --> 00:28:57,780
Glenn Dunlap:
I don't want to be, so I don't want me.

620
00:28:58,050 --> 00:29:00,480
But what was going through my mind was, is if I can sell it

621
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,730
for you knuckleheads, I'm going to go sell it for myself.

622
00:29:02,970 --> 00:29:07,140
So I literally kind of walked out of that room a little bit

623
00:29:07,140 --> 00:29:10,740
bigger and went back to my office and I started calling

624
00:29:10,740 --> 00:29:13,770
clients and said, Hey, if I leave here, would you follow

625
00:29:13,770 --> 00:29:16,020
me? And they went and I didn't have a non-compete.

626
00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:18,060
I didn't have anything holding me back.

627
00:29:18,150 --> 00:29:22,440
So I went to one of the one of the founders of the firm and

628
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,000
said, I think it's time for me to go.

629
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:25,110
I'm going to go do my thing.

630
00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:28,560
And he was fully supportive of it and helps me help me go.

631
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,610
So I think it was kind of one of those where it wasn't so

632
00:29:32,610 --> 00:29:37,920
much sticking it to the man kind of stories, but more of

633
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:39,990
the confidence that it's time.

634
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:45,210
I was in my mid thirties, I had enough of a network and

635
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:48,270
confidence to go do this on my own and felt like I had a

636
00:29:48,510 --> 00:29:49,710
book of business and I could.

637
00:29:50,580 --> 00:29:54,870
It wasn't quite like sort of taking the safety net out from

638
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:58,080
underneath the high wire, but it was it was enough that I

639
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:01,860
felt enough, confident enough.

640
00:30:01,860 --> 00:30:03,120
And I would also say this.

641
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,610
I had a quick conversation with my wife and she said, Yeah,

642
00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:08,040
I think it's time. And I didn't wait for her to change her

643
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:08,250
mind.

644
00:30:09,810 --> 00:30:12,660
Julie Smith:
So throughout the process, you know, as you went through,

645
00:30:12,660 --> 00:30:15,420
you said your mid thirties, did you have a mentor or anyone

646
00:30:15,420 --> 00:30:18,240
that kind of helped, you know, like give you some

647
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,760
information to guide you down that you know, you got the

648
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,580
confidence from your success, but did you have any, anyone

649
00:30:23,580 --> 00:30:26,220
else in your ear that kind of helped guide you that way?

650
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,250
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, there were there were a few people.

651
00:30:30,250 --> 00:30:34,790
I think when David Millard was one of the founders, he was

652
00:30:34,790 --> 00:30:36,430
the named partner in the law firm.

653
00:30:36,430 --> 00:30:38,950
And once one of the partners in the consulting company,

654
00:30:39,670 --> 00:30:42,880
David, had been on the board of the Small.

655
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:45,430
I ran the Indianapolis Small Business Development Center,

656
00:30:45,430 --> 00:30:47,590
and so we'd gotten to know each other through that.

657
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:52,420
And it was at a lunch that that I went to him to get some

658
00:30:52,660 --> 00:30:55,720
career advice and he said, I want you to come to Concord.

659
00:30:56,110 --> 00:30:57,120
And I said, I didn't.

660
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,210
This wasn't about me seeking a job for me because I know, I

661
00:31:01,210 --> 00:31:04,240
know, but I want you. And then the whole time I was there,

662
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,890
he gave me an awful lot of confidence in what I was doing

663
00:31:08,890 --> 00:31:12,580
because I had gone from on a Friday giving my services away

664
00:31:12,580 --> 00:31:15,610
at the Small Business Center to on Monday, charging a

665
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,100
pretty decent fee on an hourly basis.

666
00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:21,220
And so that can be a difficult shift.

667
00:31:21,220 --> 00:31:24,250
And he just was right behind me the whole way and just

668
00:31:24,550 --> 00:31:25,600
continued to support me.

669
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:31,330
And that was great mentor about about how to firms the

670
00:31:31,330 --> 00:31:34,870
structure and set up and just kind of how to organize those

671
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:37,960
things and he was he was great from that perspective.

672
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,270
He was also great with with clients.

673
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,400
He was just one of those guys that could sit in a room and

674
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,230
have a conversation with the client and and give them the

675
00:31:47,230 --> 00:31:51,100
good, the bad, the ugly and just learn from being able to

676
00:31:52,690 --> 00:31:54,910
and the way he handled the client situations.

677
00:31:55,300 --> 00:31:59,350
Glenn Harper:
It's funny when you have when you do work for clients and

678
00:31:59,350 --> 00:32:02,200
you have that relationship with them and they just

679
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,110
appreciate what you do and how you do it for them.

680
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,940
You don't realize how much equity that is, right, that

681
00:32:10,090 --> 00:32:12,640
they'll follow you anywhere, you know, because they believe

682
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,770
in you, because you believed in them and you help them and

683
00:32:14,770 --> 00:32:15,910
you're going they're going to help you.

684
00:32:15,910 --> 00:32:18,160
And it's just a cool thing to have that relationship.

685
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,520
And you mentioned it a little earlier that, you know,

686
00:32:21,790 --> 00:32:23,830
literally you're working for this other firm, you're still

687
00:32:23,830 --> 00:32:25,960
working there, and you call them up and say, hey, if I go,

688
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:28,660
will you come? And they're all like, absolutely, we dig

689
00:32:28,660 --> 00:32:31,210
you. I mean, that had to be a kind of a I don't want to say

690
00:32:31,210 --> 00:32:33,370
humbling experience, but just had to be a real like, wow,

691
00:32:33,370 --> 00:32:34,480
that's that's deep.

692
00:32:36,830 --> 00:32:42,110
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, it was. And it was it was quite a kind of time.

693
00:32:42,110 --> 00:32:45,440
I mean, it was it gave you the confidence.

694
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,680
But you also knew then that they're counting on you and

695
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:53,360
you've got to deliver here in order to maintain these

696
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,550
relationships that they're not there.

697
00:32:55,550 --> 00:32:57,500
They may be there because you're there, but they're also

698
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:00,080
going to also, you know, the pressure's on.

699
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,640
There's no other name behind this.

700
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,100
It's you. So so you've got to do it.

701
00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:05,240
So, yeah, it's.

702
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,350
Glenn Harper:
The buck stops there.

703
00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:06,770
Glenn Dunlap:
It's good.

704
00:33:07,370 --> 00:33:10,790
Glenn Harper:
Did you how long did it take you on your journey before you

705
00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:13,940
realise that you couldn't do everything yourself and you

706
00:33:13,940 --> 00:33:18,080
started implementing a team or strategic relationships and

707
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,060
things like that? Was that right away or do you wait a

708
00:33:20,060 --> 00:33:22,070
little bit and try to struggle through it on your own?

709
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:23,570
How that how'd that play out?

710
00:33:24,930 --> 00:33:28,830
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. You know, I left and it's really funny because when I

711
00:33:28,830 --> 00:33:34,410
left, one of the partners at the firm had laid a printout

712
00:33:35,250 --> 00:33:37,800
of of a of a guy's website.

713
00:33:39,340 --> 00:33:41,250
You remember when we used to print web pages?

714
00:33:41,250 --> 00:33:43,410
Because that was how we expected.

715
00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:46,260
Yeah. So there was a printout of a web page of a guy that

716
00:33:46,260 --> 00:33:47,850
he's like, you know, you ought to get to know this guy.

717
00:33:47,850 --> 00:33:52,560
And so I had already scheduled a meeting with with him, and

718
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,000
he had just started his own thing.

719
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,500
And I was starting my own thing.

720
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,440
And after we met, we kind of, you know, maybe we got to do

721
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,130
this together because there's you've got a book.

722
00:34:02,130 --> 00:34:04,350
I've got a book. We had some overlap and the things that we

723
00:34:04,350 --> 00:34:06,510
were doing. But he was a CPA and I'm not.

724
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:08,640
So we brought some of those things together.

725
00:34:08,940 --> 00:34:11,430
And so as we kind of talked about that, we formed.

726
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:14,040
But then we also realized that we both needed.

727
00:34:14,850 --> 00:34:17,460
You know, to to to build some leverage into the model

728
00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:20,610
because it was just that roller coaster.

729
00:34:20,610 --> 00:34:23,370
If you're on your own, your head's down on projects and you

730
00:34:23,370 --> 00:34:25,920
may. It may be great revenue, but you finish those projects

731
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:27,660
and you look up and you go, Oh, crap, there's.

732
00:34:27,750 --> 00:34:28,800
What do I do now?

733
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,630
So we like we've got to we've got to build an entity almost

734
00:34:33,630 --> 00:34:39,480
right of way. So we hired two people, a CPA that was a stay

735
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,780
at home mom that wanted some some extra hours to be able to

736
00:34:42,780 --> 00:34:46,230
get get her kids on the bus in the morning and be there

737
00:34:46,230 --> 00:34:48,000
when they get it. Got off the bus.

738
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:50,730
But she didn't want to go back in public accounting, so she

739
00:34:50,730 --> 00:34:53,370
came to work for us. And then the guy that had worked for

740
00:34:53,370 --> 00:34:55,800
me for a couple of years at the other firm, that was also

741
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:57,000
an entrepreneurship major.

742
00:34:57,810 --> 00:35:01,080
And so we hired two people the same day and then just

743
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,160
continue to build from there.

744
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,170
But it was almost right away.

745
00:35:04,170 --> 00:35:06,720
We recognize that if we don't build leverage into the

746
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:10,080
system, it will just be the same size forever.

747
00:35:10,380 --> 00:35:13,020
Glenn Harper:
Do you just magically have all this money that you just hire

748
00:35:13,050 --> 00:35:14,580
to people like that on the same day?

749
00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:17,040
I mean, what how does that even happen?

750
00:35:18,370 --> 00:35:24,270
Glenn Dunlap:
We had we had we had projects that that we were able to

751
00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:26,640
engage them on right away.

752
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,620
Beth, who started with this on a on a she started hourly,

753
00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:34,380
part time. So she was only getting paid when she worked.

754
00:35:35,910 --> 00:35:39,780
Bill, the guy that came with me, he said when I left, he

755
00:35:39,780 --> 00:35:41,700
said, I don't know what you're going to do, but I'm going

756
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:44,460
to I'll go with you, whatever, and just take care of me

757
00:35:44,460 --> 00:35:48,300
however you can. So we it was just two people that kind of

758
00:35:48,300 --> 00:35:50,550
saw what we're doing and said, you know, yeah, just take

759
00:35:50,550 --> 00:35:52,110
care of me, you know? And they did.

760
00:35:52,110 --> 00:35:55,710
And they came in and, you know, we were we were super

761
00:35:55,710 --> 00:35:57,270
grateful for folks like that.

762
00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,200
Glenn Harper:
You figure as an entrepreneur, like, you probably made that

763
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,120
decision sooner than most.

764
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,330
And at that point in time, when you realize that there's

765
00:36:06,330 --> 00:36:09,270
people that want to be part of what you're doing and and

766
00:36:09,270 --> 00:36:13,740
help you achieve what you want as a collective, the whole

767
00:36:13,740 --> 00:36:16,800
in yourself, and help them achieve something greater.

768
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:18,960
I mean, you would have sold a kidney literally to hire

769
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,230
somebody at that moment in time because most yeah, most

770
00:36:22,230 --> 00:36:23,910
entrepreneurs, they're just like, oh, I can't afford, I

771
00:36:23,910 --> 00:36:25,680
can't afford, I can't they never can afford it.

772
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,070
So it's sort of like you got to either you got to do it or

773
00:36:29,070 --> 00:36:31,440
you're just never going to do it. So I applaud you for

774
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,540
making that decision. That's a tough decision when you're

775
00:36:33,870 --> 00:36:36,660
bank counts negative and you're like, Well, I guess we got

776
00:36:36,660 --> 00:36:38,940
to go all in. And a lot of people don't do that.

777
00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:41,250
If you're listening to this podcast, you know, don't make

778
00:36:41,250 --> 00:36:43,440
foolish decisions, but you've got to believe in what you're

779
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,090
doing. You've got to believe you got the right people.

780
00:36:45,090 --> 00:36:48,150
And, you know, price is what you pay, values what you get,

781
00:36:48,150 --> 00:36:51,330
and you've got to make those decisions that will help get

782
00:36:51,330 --> 00:36:52,470
you to the next level.

783
00:36:54,620 --> 00:37:00,710
Glenn Dunlap:
You know, we joke, Glenn, about the about in our in our app

784
00:37:00,710 --> 00:37:03,650
we have you can only put in financial statement

785
00:37:03,650 --> 00:37:06,410
information, but we have some some survey questions that

786
00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:10,760
will help you understand, you know, kind of as you're doing

787
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,100
planning so your advisor can work through this with you.

788
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:15,950
So you can say, you know, what are your short term like?

789
00:37:16,190 --> 00:37:18,170
What do you expect sales to do over the next year or what

790
00:37:18,170 --> 00:37:20,360
do you expect employee employment levels and all these

791
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:21,830
things? Or so?

792
00:37:21,830 --> 00:37:24,350
What are your expectations, your priorities, your concerns?

793
00:37:24,620 --> 00:37:29,600
And it's you know, we rarely get entrepreneurs that think

794
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,190
that the 2 to 3 years is is going to be flat or down.

795
00:37:34,190 --> 00:37:36,230
That's almost always some level of up.

796
00:37:36,230 --> 00:37:38,780
Right. And there's some level of optimism that we as

797
00:37:38,780 --> 00:37:41,720
entrepreneurs just sort of have to have or otherwise we

798
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:42,860
wouldn't do what we do.

799
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:43,760
Glenn Harper:
Mandatory.

800
00:37:44,750 --> 00:37:49,970
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. So I think that was when we launched in 2003.

801
00:37:49,970 --> 00:37:52,130
We thought everything was going to be up into the right.

802
00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:54,440
Glenn Harper:
Well, it's still right and it went there.

803
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,060
Absolutely. It just took a little bit.

804
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:58,280
Glenn Dunlap:
That's right.

805
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,450
Glenn Harper:
Do you have, you know, most entrepreneurs, they have this,

806
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,900
you know, some kind of superpower that basically sets them

807
00:38:05,900 --> 00:38:09,080
apart from their competition or everybody else, because

808
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:12,110
it's just they got this shtick that there's this thing.

809
00:38:12,180 --> 00:38:16,040
Did you even have you evaluated yourself and thought about

810
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,300
what your superpower is?

811
00:38:17,300 --> 00:38:18,680
Is it client communication?

812
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:19,760
Is it risk taking?

813
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:22,160
Is it, you know, concerted effort?

814
00:38:22,190 --> 00:38:24,680
Is it just who you just got some swag?

815
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,080
What do you think that thing is that separates you?

816
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,930
That kind of makes you the successful entrepreneur that you

817
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:30,380
are?

818
00:38:34,330 --> 00:38:35,530
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, I don't.

819
00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:41,110
I think if there's anything, it's a willingness to ask that

820
00:38:41,110 --> 00:38:46,230
stupid question. It served me well when I was working with

821
00:38:46,230 --> 00:38:49,260
clients in a in a consultative situation.

822
00:38:50,410 --> 00:38:52,010
Look, maybe I don't understand this.

823
00:38:52,020 --> 00:38:53,220
Help me help me understand this.

824
00:38:53,220 --> 00:38:57,390
And I don't know your business as well as you, but can you

825
00:38:57,390 --> 00:39:00,840
tell me this or can that that I'm having trouble lining

826
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:02,430
that up. Help me make sense of that.

827
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:06,780
But I do the same thing now with as we're delivering things

828
00:39:06,990 --> 00:39:08,620
from a from a software perspective.

829
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:11,820
You know, I'll sit with clients that are using the app and

830
00:39:12,060 --> 00:39:16,710
then it's either a round of boardroom or on a zoom call or

831
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:19,230
whatever, and you'll see people's reaction.

832
00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:24,330
And I'll go, I know you're thinking about something or help

833
00:39:24,330 --> 00:39:25,680
me understand what you're thinking about.

834
00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:28,020
Or That doesn't seem like that sat right with you.

835
00:39:28,050 --> 00:39:30,480
What's what are your what are you thinking about there?

836
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,570
Or how can we make this report better?

837
00:39:33,570 --> 00:39:36,330
What are you thinking about? And it's just those things

838
00:39:36,330 --> 00:39:41,460
that our best ideas I don't I don't have the sort of.

839
00:39:41,970 --> 00:39:43,560
Right. They're not invented here syndrome.

840
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,730
It's like if somebody tells me, you know, I had I had a

841
00:39:47,730 --> 00:39:50,790
prospect the other day who's becoming a client.

842
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,270
They've told me they're ready to move forward, but said, I

843
00:39:54,270 --> 00:39:56,520
think you've solved the problem for the CPA, but I don't

844
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,080
think you've solved it for their client yet.

845
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:00,650
And that hurt.

846
00:40:00,710 --> 00:40:04,070
You know, that was one of those where I was like, oh, what?

847
00:40:04,310 --> 00:40:05,720
You know, I'm like, what do you mean?

848
00:40:05,750 --> 00:40:08,390
And so. And so then you have to go.

849
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,970
You can't. You can't get all wrapped up.

850
00:40:10,970 --> 00:40:12,740
This is you know, they didn't just tell you your baby's

851
00:40:12,740 --> 00:40:14,120
ugly. There's something here.

852
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,000
So it's like, okay, so help me understand that.

853
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:18,120
What do you mean by that? Let's go.

854
00:40:18,140 --> 00:40:22,370
Let's dig into it. And, you know, I think we've I think as

855
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:25,370
a result of that, our team is about ready to push one of

856
00:40:25,370 --> 00:40:30,320
our I think one of our best updates to the application that

857
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,360
as a result of that conversation six months ago and it's it

858
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,200
it took me three months to figure out how to solve that

859
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,950
problem that but it was one of those where 4:00 in the

860
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:44,420
morning I wake up and go, you know, we can do it.

861
00:40:44,420 --> 00:40:47,810
And I'm slack in our team and they're like, Hey, you got to

862
00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:49,160
stop slacking. It's at 4 a.m.

863
00:40:50,180 --> 00:40:51,830
like, welcome. What else is is.

864
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,320
Glenn Harper:
And nobody else works. 24 seven.

865
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:55,670
Yeah. Come on, everybody.

866
00:40:55,730 --> 00:41:00,080
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, that's that's it's it's just listening and asking

867
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,200
questions and being willing to just make those changes.

868
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,710
I think that's the if there's anything that I would credit

869
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:07,460
our success to.

870
00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:09,950
Julie Smith:
What I think I hear you saying, which I think has been a

871
00:41:09,950 --> 00:41:14,930
common theme on our podcast, is you used information to

872
00:41:14,930 --> 00:41:17,630
provide that you saw the opportunity and you were able to

873
00:41:17,630 --> 00:41:20,450
provide the solution. So you didn't see it as you weren't

874
00:41:20,450 --> 00:41:22,430
able to do something or a failure.

875
00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:25,130
We hate that word, but you saw it as an opportunity and you

876
00:41:25,130 --> 00:41:28,010
were able then to provide the solution, which I think is

877
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:29,960
amazing. It's a great superpower.

878
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,320
Glenn Harper:
It is. And I think the second thing that you probably did,

879
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,790
too, is, you know, when you walk into a room, you kind of

880
00:41:37,790 --> 00:41:39,320
know what you're talking about.

881
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,400
But it isn't about that.

882
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:41,570
It's about learning something.

883
00:41:41,570 --> 00:41:44,240
Right? And you've got to listen to what people want and

884
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:47,000
what they need. And as an entrepreneur, your brain's going

885
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,380
1000 miles an hour anyway.

886
00:41:48,380 --> 00:41:49,580
It never shuts off.

887
00:41:49,580 --> 00:41:51,530
And all you're you're just gathering data.

888
00:41:51,530 --> 00:41:53,600
You're just like a combine. Just bring it all in, and then

889
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,310
you're going to spit out a great product after it.

890
00:41:55,310 --> 00:41:57,020
And I think that's what you're doing, right?

891
00:41:57,020 --> 00:41:59,270
I mean, you're listening instead of just talking.

892
00:42:01,140 --> 00:42:02,580
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. And it's hard. It's hard.

893
00:42:02,580 --> 00:42:04,440
I'm not great at all of those things all the time.

894
00:42:04,620 --> 00:42:06,960
You know, I love product.

895
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,330
I love I think it's I think it's great.

896
00:42:10,050 --> 00:42:12,660
And that's one of the challenges is being being the

897
00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:18,780
inventor, I guess, of the in thinking of of wanting to be

898
00:42:18,780 --> 00:42:21,840
able to share that story and tell that it's really hard to

899
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:22,950
sort of set that aside.

900
00:42:22,950 --> 00:42:24,810
And and it's not about that.

901
00:42:24,810 --> 00:42:29,040
It's about the solution for them and how we can help them

902
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,590
solve problems. And, you know, it's it's tough.

903
00:42:31,590 --> 00:42:33,600
You know, you go through all those different selling things

904
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,360
about helping people understand how sick they are before

905
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:37,400
they need the solution. Right.

906
00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:39,960
Or how big is the state, the problem.

907
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,570
And nobody likes to be uncomfortable, especially, you know,

908
00:42:46,170 --> 00:42:49,340
if you start telling people things that you see wrong or

909
00:42:49,350 --> 00:42:51,450
that you've got to earn that.

910
00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:56,700
So there's there's time in that, but it's when you do sort

911
00:42:56,700 --> 00:43:00,000
of get out of the way and let that take care of itself,

912
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,560
then it works.

913
00:43:02,130 --> 00:43:05,310
Glenn Harper:
Do you there's a one trick more trick question because I

914
00:43:05,310 --> 00:43:08,850
love those. Is there is what's the end game?

915
00:43:08,850 --> 00:43:13,500
Are you like, oh, when I hit 90, I'm going to retire and

916
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:16,050
you know, I only want to make 100 million or is it going to

917
00:43:16,050 --> 00:43:17,100
make 100 billion?

918
00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:18,930
What's your end game or do you even have one?

919
00:43:18,930 --> 00:43:21,360
I know, I know the answer, but go ahead and we'll try it.

920
00:43:22,670 --> 00:43:25,040
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah, you know. Well, tell me what the answer should be

921
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:25,670
first. I mean.

922
00:43:26,350 --> 00:43:27,770
Glenn Harper:
That's what a good accountant does.

923
00:43:27,830 --> 00:43:30,360
Right. What do you want the answer to be now?

924
00:43:30,380 --> 00:43:32,960
I think the end game generally is there is no end game.

925
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:34,640
You just you enjoy what you do.

926
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:36,520
You love what you do. You're helping people.

927
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,260
The money probably doesn't really matter.

928
00:43:39,260 --> 00:43:41,300
I mean, it's important, but it's not why you do it.

929
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:42,710
And you're helping people.

930
00:43:42,740 --> 00:43:46,940
You have it. You get up in the morning going out there and

931
00:43:46,940 --> 00:43:50,240
slaying dragons and everybody's thankful for what you do

932
00:43:50,240 --> 00:43:52,160
for them. Why would you ever stop?

933
00:43:52,670 --> 00:43:54,980
So the only question really on that point, I'm guessing

934
00:43:54,980 --> 00:43:57,410
that's the case. And then if would you ever go into other

935
00:43:57,410 --> 00:44:00,020
businesses, you're how far can this business go that you're

936
00:44:00,020 --> 00:44:00,860
in these two?

937
00:44:03,740 --> 00:44:06,500
Glenn Dunlap:
So I absolutely agree with everything you just said.

938
00:44:06,510 --> 00:44:07,610
I love what I do.

939
00:44:08,330 --> 00:44:11,810
You know, I would I'd be happy doing this the rest of my

940
00:44:11,810 --> 00:44:15,020
life. So I it's kind of one of those things when when you

941
00:44:15,020 --> 00:44:16,820
get asked the question about the endgame, it's kind of

942
00:44:16,820 --> 00:44:18,480
like, does it have to have the end?

943
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:25,550
I don't want to stop. But I think the challenge for us in

944
00:44:25,550 --> 00:44:33,320
the software company is that it's sort of an up or out push

945
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,230
in software that if you're not continuing to, you see it

946
00:44:36,230 --> 00:44:39,200
all the time. When somebody builds a lifestyle software

947
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,960
company and they stop developing, then they get passed by

948
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,450
people that are innovative and they just and all of a

949
00:44:44,450 --> 00:44:46,010
sudden what they have is a lifestyle.

950
00:44:46,010 --> 00:44:49,190
Business is no longer providing them that same lifestyle.

951
00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:54,020
So. So it's it's a it's a growth plan for us.

952
00:44:54,020 --> 00:44:57,200
And we're we're looking at the different opportunities that

953
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:59,780
we can take there. So we're in the CPA space.

954
00:44:59,780 --> 00:45:02,540
We've got some some announcements that we'll be making

955
00:45:02,540 --> 00:45:06,050
later this year that just after the busy season, that will

956
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:10,610
be some some big opportunities for us to continue to expand

957
00:45:10,610 --> 00:45:12,830
and go deeper and wider in that accounting space.

958
00:45:13,010 --> 00:45:14,210
And we'll continue to do that.

959
00:45:14,210 --> 00:45:17,900
But there are other users of this data, too, that we have

960
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:19,430
our eyes on that.

961
00:45:19,430 --> 00:45:22,580
And just thinking about like, how can we how can we

962
00:45:22,580 --> 00:45:25,250
transition that? If, you know, today, I would say that our

963
00:45:25,250 --> 00:45:28,190
our our mission is to really help CPAs and their clients to

964
00:45:28,190 --> 00:45:31,520
make better decisions. And if you if you back that up it

965
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,370
eventually to be that it's really about the business owners

966
00:45:34,370 --> 00:45:38,160
and their advisors. And it's a broader set that would be of

967
00:45:38,180 --> 00:45:40,820
people. It could be investors.

968
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:45,590
So private equity, venture capital, angel investors, there

969
00:45:45,590 --> 00:45:49,550
are lenders, the bank and non-bank lenders that would be

970
00:45:49,550 --> 00:45:52,850
interested in having this kind of data to help them make

971
00:45:52,850 --> 00:45:56,030
better decisions and be able to pass it on to their clients

972
00:45:56,030 --> 00:45:57,200
and use in different ways.

973
00:45:57,230 --> 00:46:02,150
So we're looking at some of those other markets, but for

974
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:06,950
now, we know we're here with CPAs for for really a couple

975
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:09,890
of reasons. I mean, one, they have a real need for this and

976
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:10,190
they.

977
00:46:10,220 --> 00:46:12,440
Glenn Harper:
Also really cool. Cpas are really cool.

978
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:13,910
And you want to hang with them. I get it.

979
00:46:14,030 --> 00:46:14,750
I understand that.

980
00:46:15,170 --> 00:46:16,750
Glenn Dunlap:
What else would you want to spend your time?

981
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,260
Glenn Harper:
I can't think of any place better.

982
00:46:19,250 --> 00:46:20,840
Glenn Dunlap:
So it's right here.

983
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:23,630
Glenn Harper:
Right there. You know what's funny about what you said is

984
00:46:23,630 --> 00:46:25,970
and that's what I love about entrepreneurs, literally.

985
00:46:25,970 --> 00:46:27,680
You've got these two businesses, they're doing what they

986
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:31,430
do, but you literally have like 12,000 other ideas that are

987
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:33,680
just floating around out there that you need to attack and

988
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,740
slay. And and as an entrepreneur, the key thing, and I

989
00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:39,260
think that's what Glen is saying is, you know, figure out

990
00:46:39,260 --> 00:46:41,870
what you're doing, make sure you got that down, and then

991
00:46:41,870 --> 00:46:43,700
methodically go through the next steps.

992
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,220
Don't try to do everything at once because you'll never get

993
00:46:46,220 --> 00:46:48,440
anything done. You've got to just get the one thing done

994
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:49,640
and just keep moving on.

995
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:52,070
Would you agree with that? That that that comment?

996
00:46:53,390 --> 00:46:55,540
Glenn Dunlap:
Yeah. Let me ask you about mentors earlier.

997
00:46:55,550 --> 00:46:58,610
Larry Baker is one of my best mentors.

998
00:46:58,610 --> 00:47:01,730
And Larry and I talked about I mean, he made me read The

999
00:47:01,730 --> 00:47:04,670
Crossing the Chasm, and we had to go through that a lot.

1000
00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:07,700
And when you read that, there's the whole comparison.

1001
00:47:07,700 --> 00:47:11,450
It's the beachhead. You've got to you've got to focus on

1002
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:13,210
winning this beachhead.

1003
00:47:13,220 --> 00:47:14,600
You've got to win this victory.

1004
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,430
And then you can focus on the other things.

1005
00:47:16,430 --> 00:47:19,280
And that's the crossing the chasm approach is, is that you

1006
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:22,340
can't you know, I think they also use the bowling pin

1007
00:47:22,340 --> 00:47:24,340
analogy that you can't focus on the ten pin.

1008
00:47:24,350 --> 00:47:25,760
You've got to focus on the lead pin.

1009
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,370
And for us, the CPA space is that lead pin.

1010
00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:32,050
And by striking it and striking it well, it will help us to

1011
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:33,920
to get the other pins to fall.

1012
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,190
And we chose CB's because of the volume of data that's

1013
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:39,740
there. But we also chose it because the veracity and volume

1014
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,250
and veracity, when you think about who has the most trusted

1015
00:47:43,250 --> 00:47:45,410
source of data, and that's one of the challenges with the

1016
00:47:45,410 --> 00:47:47,090
other data sources that are out there.

1017
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,270
You know, they're they're scrambling to get data.

1018
00:47:51,290 --> 00:47:53,570
If you look at some of the places where you can submit your

1019
00:47:53,570 --> 00:47:58,590
own data to it, I mean, that's that's not not the same.

1020
00:47:58,590 --> 00:48:01,550
And so we're getting, you know, and we don't want to bolt

1021
00:48:01,550 --> 00:48:05,600
into accounting applications and just pull in everybody's

1022
00:48:06,230 --> 00:48:09,350
QuickBooks files because and not to beat up a QuickBooks,

1023
00:48:09,350 --> 00:48:13,640
but it's more about the users of that in that, you know, in

1024
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:17,180
our firm we were getting called in where nobody had touched

1025
00:48:17,180 --> 00:48:20,330
their files for two weeks, two months or two years and

1026
00:48:20,330 --> 00:48:22,610
cleaning that stuff up. I don't want that data coming into

1027
00:48:22,610 --> 00:48:26,150
the app. I only want data that CPA firms are, you know,

1028
00:48:26,150 --> 00:48:28,280
through their accounting services or closing the books.

1029
00:48:29,060 --> 00:48:32,030
And we've got solid data that's coming into the app every

1030
00:48:32,030 --> 00:48:35,750
month. So so we've very specifically chosen the path to get

1031
00:48:36,350 --> 00:48:38,540
a large amount of reliable data.

1032
00:48:38,540 --> 00:48:41,690
And that's that's really why we're why we started here.

1033
00:48:42,940 --> 00:48:44,740
Glenn Harper:
As an entrepreneur is.

1034
00:48:44,740 --> 00:48:47,800
And at this point in your in your journey, is there

1035
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,330
something you could tell yourself 20 years ago if you just

1036
00:48:52,330 --> 00:48:55,240
would have done this or if you just would have changed this

1037
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:59,800
or just tweak that, you would be in a better position than

1038
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,430
you are now, whether it's getting some different advice,

1039
00:49:03,460 --> 00:49:06,460
making a decision quicker, hiring, getting a mentor in

1040
00:49:06,460 --> 00:49:08,380
there, is there something that you're like, man, if I just

1041
00:49:08,380 --> 00:49:10,570
did that one thing, do you have you have anything like

1042
00:49:10,570 --> 00:49:11,020
that?

1043
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:20,310
Glenn Dunlap:
It's interesting. I think for me personally, I don't.

1044
00:49:22,500 --> 00:49:25,290
I think writing and communicating are two of the toughest

1045
00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:28,470
things for me. My just having this conversation with my

1046
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:32,850
youngest daughter last night about my SAT scores, my math

1047
00:49:32,850 --> 00:49:36,090
scores, verbal scores were just completely opposite.

1048
00:49:36,090 --> 00:49:40,470
And I think for me, being able to storytel and do those

1049
00:49:40,470 --> 00:49:43,980
things I think really well would have suited me really

1050
00:49:43,980 --> 00:49:46,710
well. From a personal standpoint, from a business

1051
00:49:46,710 --> 00:49:51,350
standpoint, I think I think stepping back and saying like.

1052
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,200
We talked about the two people that we hired right away, I

1053
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,530
think, in when we launched Milestone Advisors.

1054
00:49:58,530 --> 00:50:01,530
But I think, you know, looking at your skill sets and

1055
00:50:01,530 --> 00:50:04,320
saying, okay, who else needs to be a part of this founding

1056
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:09,210
team? Who else needs to be a part of this to sort of be

1057
00:50:09,210 --> 00:50:11,850
there and believe in this thing and to move forward with

1058
00:50:11,850 --> 00:50:15,330
this? I think that's a that's a really key thing because

1059
00:50:15,750 --> 00:50:18,630
when you do that hard assessment of your own skills and

1060
00:50:18,630 --> 00:50:22,590
what you have, it's when you launch something like this,

1061
00:50:22,710 --> 00:50:27,090
it's helpful to have a team of people who are very

1062
00:50:27,090 --> 00:50:32,610
complementary and skill set and are baptized with their

1063
00:50:32,610 --> 00:50:34,590
sword out of the water kind of thing that they're ready to

1064
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:37,290
charge. Really?

1065
00:50:38,070 --> 00:50:38,820
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

1066
00:50:38,820 --> 00:50:44,010
Glenn Harper:
So I think probably the one of the funny things is your

1067
00:50:44,010 --> 00:50:48,090
first experience of communication, selling or to these old

1068
00:50:48,090 --> 00:50:50,640
guys that were mad that you were mowing their grass, they

1069
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,380
didn't want to talk to you anyway, you know?

1070
00:50:52,380 --> 00:50:55,410
And so it probably took a while to get over that, to like,

1071
00:50:55,410 --> 00:50:57,440
hey, wait a minute, people really do want to talk.

1072
00:50:57,450 --> 00:50:59,100
They don't want to get off my lawn, kid.

1073
00:50:59,940 --> 00:51:02,280
So that's probably would be probably is something that was

1074
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:02,880
helpful.

1075
00:51:04,060 --> 00:51:06,850
Glenn Dunlap:
You know, one of the things that I think that I had.

1076
00:51:08,420 --> 00:51:11,600
You know, not so good mentors.

1077
00:51:11,870 --> 00:51:15,860
Think about the transition now when you think about it.

1078
00:51:16,460 --> 00:51:19,700
So I spend a lot of time in groups of CPA firms that are

1079
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:24,260
talking about the challenge with, you know, working with

1080
00:51:24,470 --> 00:51:27,980
millennials and how do they handle this workforce and all

1081
00:51:27,980 --> 00:51:29,390
those things. And there's, there's.

1082
00:51:31,490 --> 00:51:35,660
When I started, I'm not 90, but I did start a while ago

1083
00:51:35,660 --> 00:51:39,530
working. And one of the things with that is that you you

1084
00:51:39,710 --> 00:51:42,830
did whatever the boss told you to do and you did it, and

1085
00:51:42,830 --> 00:51:45,080
you stayed as long as it took, and you did whatever it took

1086
00:51:45,410 --> 00:51:48,200
to get the job done. And it was just kind of like that was

1087
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,030
the expectation. You went into it a lot.

1088
00:51:51,050 --> 00:51:55,520
I think I lived to work in a lot of ways and I think this

1089
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,030
generation works to live and so there's a whole shift in

1090
00:51:59,030 --> 00:52:01,640
that. But the thing that I hear a lot of people doing right

1091
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:07,220
now is is sort of sugarcoating it and doing all the stuff

1092
00:52:07,220 --> 00:52:11,210
that, you know, trying to make it work so nice and pleasing

1093
00:52:11,210 --> 00:52:14,660
and all that stuff. And I, I get it.

1094
00:52:14,660 --> 00:52:17,540
I mean, I don't it shouldn't be, you know, you shouldn't

1095
00:52:17,540 --> 00:52:19,670
have to slug through everything every day.

1096
00:52:19,940 --> 00:52:22,820
But the flip side of that is, is that I think people are

1097
00:52:22,820 --> 00:52:23,840
looking for a challenge.

1098
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,450
They want to be part of something that's bigger.

1099
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:32,090
And it's it's not so much that people want to be under the

1100
00:52:32,090 --> 00:52:35,630
thumbscrews that I kind of felt like I grew up in that it

1101
00:52:35,630 --> 00:52:37,970
was like scared of the boss and not knowing, you know, all

1102
00:52:37,970 --> 00:52:41,630
those things that they want to be a part of it and they

1103
00:52:41,630 --> 00:52:43,250
want to be a part of something bigger.

1104
00:52:43,250 --> 00:52:48,290
And and, you know, they'll do hard stuff, they'll work and

1105
00:52:48,290 --> 00:52:49,910
they'll accomplish major things.

1106
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:55,100
So, you know, one of the things that happened to us, we

1107
00:52:55,100 --> 00:52:58,820
were doing only annual financial statement analysis going

1108
00:52:58,820 --> 00:52:59,840
into the pandemic.

1109
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,990
So beginning of 2020, we only had annual stuff.

1110
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:05,960
And when the pandemic hit, things were shutting down.

1111
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,880
The economy is going to hell in a handbasket.

1112
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,560
Nobody knew what was going to happen.

1113
00:53:10,380 --> 00:53:13,510
And and all of a sudden, at the beginning of March, as the

1114
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:16,990
wheels are falling off of this stuff, I went, Oh, nobody is

1115
00:53:16,990 --> 00:53:20,710
going to load anything in and look backwards at 12 3119

1116
00:53:20,710 --> 00:53:24,790
because they're worried about payroll next week, next

1117
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:25,850
month, whatever they don't.

1118
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,000
And so it was kind of what are we going to do to survive?

1119
00:53:29,020 --> 00:53:33,460
And I came back to our team and said, we have to release a

1120
00:53:33,460 --> 00:53:37,750
monthly version of our app within the next four weeks.

1121
00:53:38,770 --> 00:53:40,510
And the team said, we can't do it.

1122
00:53:40,990 --> 00:53:43,360
And I said, Well, then we need to turn off the lights and

1123
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:44,630
go home and we're done.

1124
00:53:44,650 --> 00:53:45,940
And they went, Huh?

1125
00:53:46,510 --> 00:53:50,800
And I said, We're we will be at best irrelevant for the

1126
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,960
next year, if not longer.

1127
00:53:52,990 --> 00:53:55,270
And we have to make this transition.

1128
00:53:55,300 --> 00:53:57,850
It was like one of those things where we we had to do it.

1129
00:53:57,850 --> 00:53:59,770
And I said I said, we have to figure this out.

1130
00:54:00,100 --> 00:54:02,440
And they all kind of looked at each other and, yeah, we'll

1131
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,190
do it. And it was one of those things where they they I

1132
00:54:06,190 --> 00:54:08,050
told them 415 was the deadline.

1133
00:54:08,050 --> 00:54:09,280
And you know why, obviously.

1134
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,580
But we flipped the switch and released the monthly version

1135
00:54:12,580 --> 00:54:14,830
of our app on April 17, 2020.

1136
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:18,070
And then we went to all of our clients and we said, you

1137
00:54:18,070 --> 00:54:22,480
know, you're using this with 20% of your of your client

1138
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,180
base. We're turning it all on for every single one of your

1139
00:54:25,180 --> 00:54:27,940
clients. We want to be part of the solution, not part of

1140
00:54:27,940 --> 00:54:30,460
the problem. So we're turning it on, use it for the next

1141
00:54:30,460 --> 00:54:32,740
six months and help your clients get through this.

1142
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,740
And it was really kind of that transition, but it was also

1143
00:54:35,740 --> 00:54:41,230
because you go to the team and you go, look, this is part

1144
00:54:41,230 --> 00:54:44,110
of a bigger thing. This is, you know, this we have to do

1145
00:54:44,110 --> 00:54:47,890
this and not just for our survival, but also we want to be

1146
00:54:47,890 --> 00:54:50,500
part of the solution for the CPA firms and their clients

1147
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:51,550
and help them through this.

1148
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,550
And, you know, once they got their heads kind of wrapped

1149
00:54:54,550 --> 00:54:59,380
around that piece, they they worked tons of hours in and

1150
00:54:59,380 --> 00:55:02,320
completed things. It was a it was a fantastic effort.

1151
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,620
But, you know, I didn't put a foosball table in to make

1152
00:55:06,130 --> 00:55:08,890
happy for them. Was like, you know, here's here's where we

1153
00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:11,080
got to go and, you know, let's go together.

1154
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:13,870
And when we do this, we'll get to the other side and it'll

1155
00:55:13,870 --> 00:55:17,380
be it'll be good. And that that not only saved us, but in

1156
00:55:17,380 --> 00:55:20,500
the sense that we still had a viable, relevant product that

1157
00:55:20,500 --> 00:55:21,760
we could continue to sell.

1158
00:55:21,940 --> 00:55:26,470
But it's it's enabled our our growth for 21 and 22.

1159
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:30,490
Julie Smith:
I think, you know, Glenn and I agree on that same concept.

1160
00:55:30,490 --> 00:55:32,110
Like, you have to be transparent and you have to

1161
00:55:32,110 --> 00:55:35,260
communicate the why. They have to understand what they're

1162
00:55:35,260 --> 00:55:36,400
going towards.

1163
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,260
And once they wrap their head around that, you'd be

1164
00:55:38,260 --> 00:55:40,180
interested what they're willing to put their head down and

1165
00:55:40,180 --> 00:55:44,050
do. So I think you you described that exactly to a tee.

1166
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,000
Glenn Harper:
We definitely call that leadership.

1167
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,340
And then you lead by example and you just laid it out and

1168
00:55:48,340 --> 00:55:50,680
said, look, if you don't if we don't do this, we're out of

1169
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,760
business and people would rather work towards something and

1170
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:57,040
work for a common goal than just come up and punch the

1171
00:55:57,040 --> 00:55:58,900
clock so that that's what it's all about.

1172
00:55:58,900 --> 00:56:00,610
So any entrepreneurs listen to this.

1173
00:56:00,610 --> 00:56:02,680
I hope you get a lot of good stuff out of here.

1174
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:05,140
Glenn, I appreciate you taking some time with us today.

1175
00:56:05,140 --> 00:56:07,780
And I wish you wish you luck on the rest of your day in

1176
00:56:07,780 --> 00:56:10,630
Indianapolis. And and hopefully we'll get some more snow

1177
00:56:10,630 --> 00:56:12,670
coming your way, which would be great, because that means

1178
00:56:12,670 --> 00:56:15,460
we're going to get it then it's all good.

1179
00:56:15,610 --> 00:56:18,520
Well, thanks again to Glenn Harper and Julie Smith.