Hey, bro, how do I pronounce your last name?

Sorry, Wise Hop Wise.

And I'll address the name when we're doing the hero's Journey part name, so no worries, Adam.

Yeah, okay.

All right.

Isaac Weishop is a prominent author, researcher, and host of the Occult Symbolism and Pop culture podcast since 2014, where he explores the hidden meanings behind pop culture conspiracies and esoteric philosophy.

With a background in engineering and a deep interest in the cult systems, Isaac bridges the gap between mainstream entertainment and the arcane by decoding the symbols, rituals, and belief systems woven into films, music, and celebrity culture.

He's written several books on Illuminati symbolism, occultism, secret societies, and the paranormal.

Drawing on a mix of research, intuition, and cultural analysis, Isaac offers a critical yet accessible lens on the forces shaping the modern world from the shadows.

Isaac, welcome to Here for the Truth.

Hey, thanks for having me on here.

I'm here to drop some truth bombs, man.

I'm trying to bring over that tinfoil hat perspective today.

Let's go, bro.

Let's go.

These conversations very much are connected to our origins of this podcast as well.

Yeah, so we're excited for this one, man, for sure.

One way we always like to kick these conversations off with first time guests is we want to explore your personal hero's journey a little bit.

So like, how did you get here?

What led you down this path?

What were the major rites of passage or turning point moments that kind of catalyzed this for you?

So I've, I've, I've.

You're going to cut me off if I talk too long?

No worries, man.

But, so I was, I was born in 79, right.

Just to put my age into perspective because I think that's important because I was raised on 80s and 90s pop culture and that included.

I've always had an interest in the paranormal.

Right.

I was really into, you know, X Files as much as a, you know, 14 year old kid could be into X Files.

And you know, anything was alien related like, would just grab my attention and I was always super interested in these things and, and I, I don't know where that comes from exactly.

I think it was because my, my father was really into horror movies, so I just, I just mainlined all 80s horror movies growing up and 70s horror movies, you know that.

So those are kind of my interests.

And I've always been intrigued by the.

I guess like antinomian would be the term you would use.

And I don't, I don't, I didn't know that at the time, it was only when my studies of the occult and Left Hand Path thinking would come sort of to a realization for me is that I was always interested in the sort of rebel archetype, the sort of Luciferian archetype, people, and that included my pop culture interest.

Like, I was always in, like, you know, a lot of people were really into sort of pop music, and I was always really into, you know, the gangster rap stuff.

And I remember, like, when Body Count came out and two Live Crew, and like, at the time, they were really risque, you know, and I was always drawn right to whatever.

Whatever the sort of rebellious thing was.

That was always my.

My draw.

And simultaneously, I grew up with.

My mother would take me to her Church of the Nazarene.

And I didn't really love it, to be honest.

It wasn't really my.

My thing.

But there was an influence there.

There was a Christian influence there which has stuck with me.

And if you read my first book I wrote in 2012, that was kind of my.

My entrance into all of this alternative thinking is questioning if things like Christianity was the right answer.

I don't know.

And I can't.

I can't provide that answer because it's so subjective and I have doubts about a lot of things about it.

But ultimately I go back to it and always question, like, is that because this was sort of indoctrinated into me as a child?

I mean, what if I was born in some other country where they practice some other kind of religion?

Like, these are the kinds of things that, like, rattle around my brain all day.

And I don't really have a great answer for it, but ultimately I ended up becoming baptized Greek Orthodox.

Christian.

My Greek Orthodox here.

Oh, hey.

I mean, I was raised.

I'm Greek.

It's my background.

I was raised in the Greek Orthodox Church.

Okay.

I fully 100 follow it these days, but yeah.

Oh, it's a Connie's.

Yeah.

That's funny.

My wife's actually the Greek one.

I'm not Greek at all, but she.

She.

You mean.

You mean Weisshoff isn't a Greek last name?

Oh, yeah.

Let me.

Let me.

Let me address the name.

We'll come back to the name.

Let me.

Let me kind of keep going on the journey and then go to where, quote unquote, Isaac Weishop comes to life like Frankenstein's monster.

Yeah, so.

So yeah, I met my wife.

I was in the military, met my wife, and she was a submarine.

Orthodox.

Right.

She would surface twice a year for, you know, Easter.

For Easter.

Yeah, bro.

Yeah.

And so I, I never really loved the Church of Nazarene.

No offense, mom, if you're listening, she knows this because, like, I hated, I never wanted to go.

And they were like, my mom was like, well, well, when you turn 16, you can make that choice for yourself.

The day I turned 16, I was like, I'm out.

See ya.

Because like, I just couldn't get along with the people in there.

I don't know what it was.

It's no offense to non denominational Christians.

It just wasn't my thing.

I didn't like the rock band church thing.

It just felt weird to me.

Felt kind of phony.

I don't know what it was.

So when I met my wife and we decided to get married, she was like, well, I'd like to do it in the Orthodox church.

I was like, all right, cool.

So I meet with the priest.

I said some unknowing to me, some heretical things about the communion, not knowing anything about the Orthodox faith.

And I didn't know what transubstantiation meant.

And I.

We got into a sort of argument at the church there because he asked me about the blood and body of Christ.

And I was like, well, I know it's not really blood, it's not really body.

And he was like pretty upset about that because he's like, well, we transubstantiated.

That's literally what we, what we are consuming.

And I, and I didn't get that.

So I go through catechism and I was really hardcore about orthodoxy from like 2003 to around 2000, maybe 17 or 18.

And I didn't like fall away from the church or nothing.

I just kind of stopped going as much, you know.

You know, life just starts catching up with you.

You start sleeping in on Sunday and then next thing you know you're like, I don't know how I Woke up at 8 in the morning to go to church every Sunday.

And dude, I was 15 years, perfect attendance, Sunday school.

Growing up in Jersey.

My mom would like break like knock on our doors, my brother and me, every Sunday morning, wake us up head there.

I was an altar boy.

I was super involved growing up.

And then of course I move away to go to college and.

And I was like, I'm sleeping in, I'm partying and all that.

So anyways, I just wanted to.

It's hard, right?

Where, where.

If you don't mind sharing, where did you live in Jersey?

I'm from.

I'm from Lancaster, Penn.

Allentown, Penns.

Oh yeah.

I lived in Northern Jersey.

I was in.

I went to St. George Greek Orthodox Church in Clifton, New Jersey.

I grew up in Wayne.

I grew up in Wayne.

Yeah.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, I've been down to.

Because my dad's family is from South Jersey, so I've been to the Orthodox church in.

I think it was in Cape May.

I forget the name of it.

Anyway.

There's a lot of Greek parishes in Jersey.

Anyways.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, I was the.

I was the Luca mother chef for almost 20 years in my.

The Greek festivals.

Yeah, for the festivals.

Yeah.

Oh, dude.

Dude.

We just moved my mom out here from Jersey because my dad passed away last year.

I live in.

I live in California.

And we took her to the South Bay Greek Festival.

Dude.

And we ate some lucamadas.

Oh, nice.

Yeah, it tastes good.

Boy, cooking them up is a real nightmare.

It's so hot.

For sure.

So.

So, yeah.

So like, like the faith background is part of the journey.

And when what, what had happened was I started college.

I got out of the military.

I started college around 2003.

And I was going to school for engineering.

And the only reason for that was because I was good at math.

And my uncle was an electrical engineer since, like the freaking 70s.

And he was loaded.

He was the only person I knew with money.

My whole family, everyone else was broke, right?

And I, I was like, I don't want to be broke anymore.

How do I not be broke?

And I was like, well, my uncle's an engineer.

I'm going to do what he did.

So I went to school for engineering and I had like a two year period between undergrad and grad school.

So I.

And you know, you get.

You go to college.

And I was working full time, going to college full time.

And I was just in a habit of research and regurgitation.

And when you do that, for six years, my mind was conditioned right at this point.

So I finally get done with school and I'm like, I got all this free time and I'm like, well, what, I'm gonna sit here and just like, play video games?

Like, no, I got.

I. I was addicted to learning.

So I started the blog illuminati watcher.com and the purpose of it, originally, the original vision was I was inspired by.

There's a website called Bloody Disgusting.com that does horror movie stuff.

And it's like a mix of horror movies with action figures with, you know, television shows.

It's like a variety of things.

And that was like, the original vision was to talk About a variety of things, including.

And I'm.

I'm going to be careful with the words I use.

Because you're putting this on YouTube, right?

Yeah, I mean, we have a new YouTube channel.

We were deleted off of YouTube years ago with our first channel.

Oh, well, you're about to get.

You might get this one.

Torch.

I'll be careful with my words.

I use.

I'll use the.

The YouTube Safe for Work language here.

But part of the blog was to investigate, you know, theories of alternative thought.

Right.

Particularly like David Icke.

I was really into David Icke at the time, and that was the most popular post I would make.

So I started focusing in on it.

2012.

I decided, hey, I wrote a thesis that was, you know, 100 some pages.

I could write a book.

So I write a grand unified conspiracy theory.

I just said the naughty word.

Sorry.

You're good, right?

You're good.

So I think we're okay with that.

Okay.

So I, I write the first book.

And that was like the crux of the first book was me saying, I like all of these.

I consume a lot of content about people presenting different theories about things.

What I didn't like was how oftentimes they go down this realm of this sort of spirituality and how it's.

It's a.

It's either pro Christian or it's pro New age.

And at the time I was like, well, I don't want your sort of spiritual bias to come into this.

I just want to know the truth.

Yeah.

And that was my original aim and intent.

I didn't realize, though, at the time.

It took me years of research to realize that it is a spiritual thing.

That's like the main guiding principle behind all this.

And it takes you into this study of what they call the occult or the hidden, and you find out that it really is all about these ideas of spirituality and Christianity, in a sense.

And let me go back two steps here.

So when I started the blog, I had a post about.

I think it was something silly about a. I was watching Storage wars on Africa channel and I.

There was some theory about something on there.

I don't remember what.

And I posted on there and show out of Tulsa, Oklahoma, reached out to me and they're like, hey, we want to interview you for our radio show.

I was like, what?

Because I was just blogging, you know.

No, I didn't have a following or anything.

I said, okay.

And they're like, well, what's your name?

And I. I didn't want to tell my real name.

So I came up with the moniker Isaac Weishop as a play on the initials of Illuminati watcher, the I and the W. Right.

So Isaac Weishop, you know, and Weishop is the name of the Bavarian Illuminati founder Adam Weishop.

So it's a terrible pseudonym.

No one knows how to spell either, either first or last name.

So in hindsight I shouldn't have chose that one.

But hey, here we are.

So I've, I've been on that journey since basically 2011, full time of.

I've written nine books.

I've been podcasting since 2014 and it's taken me on a lot of crazy adventures and you know, the hero's journey aspect of it, I guess if there was one.

There's been some really dark encounters and a lot of strange connections I've made over the years doing this.

And, and it's, it's weird, right?

It's weird to sit here in 2025 because in 2020 everything changed in the podcast realm, especially in the sort of truther realm, and a lot of people started getting really sort of fervent about these things and a lot of interests were devoted to this school of thought and we've had a lot of new people show up and in my personal opinion, you know, and I'm a paranoid guy, so like, let's get that right off, off the bat.

I'm a paranoid guy.

I don't really trust anybody.

There's some people I've been working with since 2011 that I trust fully, you know, like Jay Dyer, you know, also Greek or not Greek Orthodox, but he's Orthodox.

I don't know if he's Greek Orthodox.

But yeah, I might have seen that on, on like his post or something Instagram once.

Yeah, yeah, he's Orthodox for sure.

He's an ortho bro, like me, I guess.

But like, and, and we don't, and to be fair, like, I don't agree.

My, my place in this truth around is like, I don't agree with everything every truther says.

I really don't.

I, I am totally not on board with everything they say.

Like, I'm very anti Q. I think that's a big psyop from the get go.

There's a lot of things we could go down the list and most of it's like too, too hot for YouTube, but, but there's a lot of people I trust whether I agree with them or not.

That's, you know, people like Jay Dyer and Greg Carwood and Sam Tripoli.

Like, these guys I've known for, since before 2020, and they're all good people and I trust them.

And then that's not to say I don't trust anyone that came around after, but there's a lot of people that I suspect are part of a attempt to create a new mainstream media and alternative stream media.

And you see it, you know, when you're in this sort of business, you see it when, you know, some people get.

For whatever reason, they're allowed to accumulate a giant following and not get banned, even though they're saying the certain terms and words that I, you know, I've been banned off YouTube three times.

I've been banned off of Vimeo, which I was paying Vimeo.

I've been banned off everything.

I've got a. I've got a sob, sob story on my website, on the Start Here page.

But I just face constant battles and I, I try to differentiate myself from the rest of the truth or community in the sense that not the rest of that sounds like I'm throwing shots.

I, I try to be the guy who inserts some form of rational normie point of view into this stuff because a lot of people that get into this and, And I was there, too.

I was very overzealous at the beginning.

Every, every celebrity covering one eye, I was like, oh, my God, they're in the Illuminati and they worship the devil, you know, and, and there's elements of that that could hold some truth or it's at least worth peeling back.

But I've sort of found that a lot of that becomes sort of.

What do you call it?

It's kind of like when.

Well, I can't use the term I want to use, but they're like, people like, they get off on.

On just like, pat themselves on the back with, like, their own point of view.

They're like, well, see, that's why Christ is the best.

And again, like, I'm a Christian.

I, I'm on board with all this.

Like, I'm definitely a Christian, but I think some people, they find these things and they like to make a boogeyman out of these celebrities.

And I'm like, I don't know if it's that simple.

I don't, I really don't think it's that simple.

I think there's a lot of strange things happening behind the scenes that we don't know about.

And the more I learn about these occult belief systems and religions and secret societies, it's clear that they're Using these celebrities on some level.

And I think some celebrities know about and some don't.

And.

Yeah, I think.

Yeah, that's the thing there too, is because it's like they're down the line very often.

So, like, just because you see a hundred celebrities, you know, in a mashup montage with their hands over their eye doesn't mean they're like, listen, I think I want to put my right hand over my right eye so I could.

I could tell everyone what group I'm a part of.

Like, you know, like, you have an ad agency and you go up and then all of a sudden there's a photographer and.

Anyways.

Yeah, yeah.

And some of those.

And what's making it even more difficult today is with AI, you can.

Because there's.

There's a famous montage, I'm sure you're alluding to, of a lot of black and white images of, like, just dozens of celebrities doing the same thing covering one eye.

Yeah.

And I suspect, like, just by looking at them, you know, years ago, it looks like a lot of them aren't natural.

Like, they look very much like someone photoshopped that angle.

Some of them are real, though.

So I don't know it.

I don't discount the thing.

I'm not like, oh, if you believe that, you're stupid.

I just think that I just become very.

It can become very black and white people.

People enter this world, and I think, you know, complex thinking is something that most people are lazy to kind of engage in.

So they discover one thing, they pull one thread, and all of a sudden, anything connected to Hollywood, anything connected to celebrity culture, anything that's received a level of popularity, fame, wealth, just falls into this basket.

I think it's just a symptom of lazy thinking, you know, whereas there's nuance each.

Things are a case by case basis, in my view.

Yeah.

And.

And things got really weird because back in the day in 2014, I.

You know, when you podcasted back then, you had to pay a host.

So I was paying a host.

I remember there was a listener of mine, or someone who read my blog, I should say, and he was pushing me to do a podcast.

I had a couple friends who were like, yeah, we should podcast, like Joe Rogan.

And I was like, I don't know, dude.

And at the time I was doing YouTube videos, so I thought, all right, well, I mean, it's not that big of a jump.

I'll just do it.

And I was paying.

Like, I don't remember.

It was like 20 bucks a month to have this hosting, but that's a totally different game.

Like today, now you can make big dollars on it.

And I. I think that that makes it more enticing to be more sensational and that, you know, like, you're gonna make more money by doing certain things, being sensational and sort of like saying obscene, crude, demeaning things about people or going heavy into one side of the political spectrum, either left or the right.

But that's where all the money's at.

And, like, I.

That's just not me in my real life.

That's not how I want to make my money, and that's not how I want to earn a living.

And I, like, I'd rather sleep at night.

And I always say, because, you know, and thank goodness I've got a background in engineering and program management because, like, that's my.

I always say, like, that's the thing.

Working a dreaded day job is the thing that makes my show.

I could be more authentic with how I want to present my stuff because there is temptation to, you know, kind of be sensational about things.

Because, I mean, look at Alex Jones, right?

Like, that's the way.

That's the way he rolls.

It's like he's like, everything's an emergent emergency broadcast.

And it's like, oh, my gosh, dude, like, my heart.

That's a pretty good impression.

Thanks.

Yeah, I. I've done a couple Alex impersonations on my show, so I've been working on it.

You got.

You got to have that real gravity.

It was like, folks, folks, listen up.

You know, he's always pounding on the desk.

That's like, the point, right?

But, yeah, I hear what you're saying, man.

Like, polarization is extremely engaging.

And now there's all these different incentives and avenues to make lots of dollars by having more engagement, by having more clicks, even through X.

People are making massive bank on X just by sticking to extreme narratives.

Because it continues this view count, you know?

Yeah, I've seen it too.

Like, people using, like, offensive language about stuff, and I'm just like, oh, I just.

I just couldn't do it, man.

I'd rather go.

I'd rather just quit it and just work overtime at the dreaded day job than.

Than sit here and like, bro, you're Greek Orthodox.

You gotta have some class, bro.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, that's right.

Yeah, you got it.

You know it.

Yeah, so.

So, like, I try to live by that, and then on top of that, I've got a Great wife who, like, keeps me in line because it's not like I'm not.

Sometimes I can go down that rabbit hole, and I'm kind of nutty.

Right.

Like, in 2020, things were crazy and, like.

Anyway, yeah, I don't talk about certain things on here, but you know.

You know what happened back then, and, like.

Yeah, yeah, we've had things on it.

Yeah.

Yeah, things were really dicey back then, but, yeah, so.

So, yeah, the hero's journey is.

Oh, yeah.

I was.

I was trying to tell you there was, like.

There's been a lot of strange interactions I've had with, like, some famous people.

And, like, I got to.

I got to do Dave Navarro show twice back in, like, 2016.

And it was just weird to me because it's like sometimes these.

These celebrities, like, they're really into this sort of stuff, and I.

And I don't think it's just because they like truth or things.

Like, sometimes I think there's something they know about what goes on behind the scenes, and they're trying to understand it some more.

Yeah.

And there was some other, like, really crazy stuff that had happened in my past of doing this stuff, real close calls with, you know, like, I was.

I was.

I was friends with Max Spears before he passed away, and that was, like, a whole weird situation there.

And I don't know.

There's a lot of weird stuff, man.

And it's.

What I'm saying is there's enough weird stuff going on that I believe wholeheartedly there's something behind the scenes.

There's something hidden, there's something occult going on with the power brokers of society, mainstream media, the Hollywood.

And I'm certainly not saying every single one is guilty.

I'm just saying that behind this all, there's something going on.

And.

And I think that a lot of people are waking up to that stuff.

When you see, you know, certain things happening, like the whole Diddy trial, who, you know, now he's gonna get off, and.

And the whole Epstein thing, like, there's a lot of weird things going on.

You're like, this doesn't add up.

And.

And it's because there's some.

There's like, two versions of reality happening.

And that's where you get into sort of some of these ideas that I. I focus on with my show of occult systems of ritual, magic, and manifesting realities and things like that.

Yeah.

What do you.

What do you think?

Real briefly, just like, with the whole Diddy thing, like, you think they'd want maybe someone to take the fall.

I feel like some things they like, they kind of give people a bone, you know, they just throw it out there.

Oh, look, this bad person, we're going to put them in prison.

But like it just seems like that just kind of has gone away and.

Yeah, yeah, there's, there's.

You know, it's interesting because he was such a central figure in the legacy of hip hop.

You know, I grew up listening to hip hop.

My second book was called Sacrifice Magic behind the Mic.

And I talked about these exact Subjects back in 2013 or 14 or whatever year it was.

And the whole Diddy thing is strange because when you unpack, because I did several shows on Diddy.

I did like a four hour deep dive on the history of Diddy.

I mean, he goes and, and we can talk about the ideas of like ritual sacrifices and how that's sort of a.

An element of energy focus in the occult.

And that's where Diddy got his start, right?

Is with a little bit of like a blood sacrifice thing because he was running basketball tournaments.

And one, he oversold the tickets for this basketball tournament with.

I think it was with Def Jam or not Def Jam, who was Heavy D signed under.

Was it Heavy D?

I don't remember.

It doesn't matter.

Anyway, he.

He oversold tickets and there was a stampede and a bunch of people died of this basketball tournament.

And it didn't, it didn't even slow him down.

Like he just got way more famous after that.

Which, you know, you could argue what you want about that, but there is an element of Saturnian ritual sacrifice.

And I think that Diddy is.

When you read through the court documents specifically, the most interesting one is Lil Rod, the music producer that, that sued him right after Cassie sued him.

He, he lays it out like a dang truther.

He's saying, look, he's Diddy's running Epstein operations with blackmailed videotapes and he's paying off cops and he's doing hits on people and there's trafficking going on and, and he even names, names the most powerful man in all of music, Lucian Grange.

He names him specifically in the documents.

He also names a. I can't think of her name.

Oh man, I can think of her name.

Anyways, he names a.

A woman who's very prominent in the.

As an eight who runs an agency for massive Hollywood stars like Brittany Lou Taylor.

Lou Taylor.

And Robin Greenfield.

He names, I believe, Robin Greenfield who's like, kind of works with Lou Taylor.

He names her specifically.

And, and these are huge names in the music industry.

And then you also add in the fact that little Rod says he was basically abused or subjected to certain amounts of trauma, I should say, by, you know, famous people.

Cuban Gooding Jr. Is named in the document.

There's a photo of him and Kiwi Gooding Jr. And, and the.

There's a bunch of.

Obviously bunch of celebrities and rappers that did he's affiliated with that hang out with him.

Like Jay Z's his best friend.

And you know that.

And you hear all the people, all these video clips of people talking about going to these Diddy parties.

Ashton Kutcher.

Who him and Mila Kunis recently.

Oh, yeah.

LeBron James.

Yeah.

Kevin Hart.

Jamie Foxx, who was his videographer since the 90s.

There's videotapes of him, you know, run around the video camera talking about how wild these parties are.

And everyone's either being real quiet and not saying a word or they're trying to, like, distance themselves.

Like how Jamie Foxx had that comedy stand up that he did on Netflix where the whole thing was.

It wasn't even funny.

And it seemed like there was only one main message that I got from it and that was him trying to distance himself from Diddy.

He was saying that, you know, he never saw any of this stuff at the parties.

And.

But then he also compares Diddy to the devil.

So I don't know what Jamie Foxx's role is, but in the 90s, it was all good because he was best friends with him and filming the parties.

But then he had that in that thing where he had that medical emergency and slipped into the coma or whatever it was, and he allegedly was.

One of the allegations going around was that Diddy had something to do with it.

But he comes out and he says, no, nothing to do with that.

And in fact, I don't.

I never hung out of those parties.

And I was.

It's just weird.

The whole thing is bizarre.

What.

What role?

I know there's a lot of conjecture, but what role do you think Diddy played in Tupac's death?

Yeah, so, you know, I think.

I think it's like official, sort of like in the court convicted with Keith Keefe D or whatever his name is, that he claimed that Diddy paid him off or I guess handed him the money to hand to the guy who put a head out on Tupac.

And there's all these, you know, allegations of him, like doing it to Big as well.

There's a lot of strange stuff.

And then you look at all the deaths around Diddy with Kim Porter, his own, you know, baby mama who died from a weird pneumonia when she was, like, very fit and she was in her 40s.

And then Brittany Murphy, who was dating Ashton Kutcher, dies from pneumonia very.

You know, you could argue that she was.

I think they're saying she was bulimic or something, but she was relatively fit in her 40s.

Like, it's not.

It's.

Anyway, and then her husband, also.

I forget his name.

He.

He again died from pneumonia in his.

In his 40s or 50s, maybe.

And then the thing that makes it weird, when you get into the realm of the occult, you start peeling back some of these weird metaphysical things and you find out stuff like how Britney Murphy lived in the same house that Britney Spears had lived in.

And Britney Spears was talking about how she saw these, like, dark spirits in there, and that's the reason she left the house.

So are we.

Are they messing with.

With forces?

You could argue that, because there's a thing called the Faustian bargain where, you know, you sell your soul for fame and fortune.

And you see this constantly referenced.

You see.

And over the years, I've read many books of celebrities that have talked about this exact thing happening.

Dave Grohl from Foo Fighters literally says that he sold his soul in the mirror to be famous in his autobiography.

Same goes for Roseanne Barr.

She wrote a book and she talked about how she sold her soul to the devil to be famous.

And then later, she was bugged out by it.

So she talks to her Kabbalah priest, which, you know, Kabbalah is one of these occult religion systems that Ashton Kutcher and Mila Kunis that, you know, they wear the red string bracelet.

That's.

That's how, you know they're into Kabbalah.

Tucker Carlson, same thing.

But they.

She talked to this Kabbalah priest and was like, hey, like, do I really gotta give the devil my soul?

And the Kabbalah priest, like, no, that's all nonsense.

You're good.

Don't even worry about it.

And she kind of was like, oh, okay, cool.

I guess I'm good now.

And so did Matthew Perry.

Same thing.

Said the same thing.

Like, it's just weird, like how I just.

I. I refuse to believe that this is just people saying stuff to be sensational or to have some kind of interesting backstory.

Which it.

I mean, it could be, right?

It could be.

But it goes back to Robert Johnson, who was the.

The guy who learned how to play the blues, right?

Selling assault, the crossroads to the devil.

And he had musician friends that.

That said, yeah, this guy couldn't play a lick.

And then he sold us all at the crossroads.

And now he's like this prominent musician, blues musician.

And then, you know, you get into Led Zeppelin, and, you know, it's just like, I could go all day like a nutty person.

When I was.

When I was like 12, 13 years old, playing Stay With a Heaven backwards creeped me the freaking hell out.

Oh, yeah, man.

That, like, they, like.

That's so intentional, you know, like, coding that message in there.

Yeah, Led Zeppelin's fat.

I. I'm a pretty big Led Zeppelin fan.

And the.

You know, Jimmy Page was into Aleister Crowley, the.

The world's wickedest man there.

He's.

He's kind of the.

The biggest boogeyman of the occult, if you guys are familiar with him.

But, you know, Robert Plant, he.

He went and retrieved dirt from the crossroads where Robert Johnson sold his salsa.

He was into this too.

And his.

His mother was a gypsy, so like, they had a sort of alternative sort of upbringing.

But Jimmy Page also owned, like, a bookstore of occult literature.

He's super into Aleister Crowley to the point where he purchased the.

The Bull Skin Estate, where.

In the Loch Ness in Scotland, where Crowley was doing rituals and summoning entities.

Supposedly this was earlier on in his career as a magician, and he wasn't really good at finishing the rituals, so that there were supposedly all these sort of spirits on the.

On the grounds there.

And Jimmy Page saw a floating head while he was there.

And the Bowl Skin recently burned down just a few years ago, and someone rebuilt it.

But yeah, you know, and that also ties into Loch Ness and makes you wonder, like, oh, all that talk about seeing creatures of the Loch Ness, like, maybe that was just some kind of entity that Crowley summoned in.

Into existence.

And it's, you know, in the lake there.

Who knows, man?

Listen, there's so many avenues we can go down, especially from a, like a music Hollywood standpoint.

But I know one of the things we wanted to kind of dive into is like, your thoughts and your views on the whole Kobe.

Kobe Bryant situation that happened back in.

Was that 2020 now?

Yeah, 2020.

I can't believe it's been like five and a half years and then potentially your thoughts on even the home, you know, Michael.

Michael Jordan's father being murdered and things of that nature.

So, full disclosure, I'm not really into the sports ball, right?

So I never seen Kobe Bryant play a game in my life.

I. I have.

I. I was really into all Sports until I turned about 16, so we're talking like 95.

So I was huge into Michael Jordan, you know, back when they were dominating basketball.

But after that, I, you know, I don't know what happened.

It's not like I'm anti sports.

I just kind of moved on.

And, you know, 10 years blows by now you don't know anyone who's playing.

So I just last year started watching NFL again.

So, you know, I'm really into football right now.

But the.

So full disclosure, I don't know much about Kobe Bryant besides what I researched.

Obviously, he's one of the greatest, if not like the greatest basketball player of all time, which is, you know, quite an accomplishment.

And so when he died In January of 2020, as everyone knows, he was in a helicopter, that the.

The fog was too thick, and they.

They.

They ran into the side of a.

A hill or a mountain or whatever in Calabasas, very close to where I am.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, I. I love Southern California.

So that's.

Yeah, that's.

That's also part of this whole thing.

Like, people talk about the.

The city of angels, and, like, a lot of people get into this whole thing of it's a city of fallen angels and there's a lot of, like, demonic forces and how Hollywood is a reference to ritual magic.

It's.

It's.

It's a term about a.

The holly stick.

Yeah.

Being the most magical, most magical wood that you can make a wand out of.

But anyway, the.

What's interesting is there's a lot of.

A lot of theories about what happened here, and I guess we can kind of go through them a little bit here.

So the first one.

Well, the first one was like, the.

The debris of the crash, I guess the helicopter was black and the debris was blue and white is like one of the early theories that I saw, which at the time, I didn't think a whole.

I didn't invest a lot of energy into the theory about the, you know, the one country that has the same colors for their flag, because I found.

I just.

I just.

I don't know.

I always feel like that there's like a weird kind of vibe to that whole theory that I'm like, I don't know if I want to associate with that.

There's enough people that talk about those things.

I'll let them do it.

But let's stick to, like, the, like, things that are, you know, the.

Maybe the most rational potentially.

Okay.

Okay.

So if you look at the.

The ideas of predictive program, because a lot of people talk about how in Hollywood and entertainment there will be examples of things that happen on shows or movies before they actually happen in real life.

And there's a few reasons why they think that happens.

One is like a karmic retribution thing.

Another is to sort of prepare the mind to understand what's going to happen.

That's a lot of theories about like, 911 when you see, you know, the Simpsons had a thing of the twin towers.

There was a record that had the tin towers blown up.

Biggie had a line about blowing up the World Trade Center.

Did you see the Back to the Future video that says it predicts 911 too?

Have you seen that one?

That's pretty fun.

Yeah, yeah, that one's good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I did an episode about Back to the future forever ago in regards to that.

Because.

Because it goes from the.

The Twin Pines Mall to the like the Lone Pine Mall or whatever it is, like from two into one, which is very.

Which is a very occult thing.

And.

And there's also some weird stuff in that movie.

If you.

Do you remember if you watch Back to the Future in the marquee, they're living in this little wholesome, you know, 50s town.

And in the marquee to the movie theater next to the ice cream shop, it's like.

It's got like movie titles of smut.

Did you ever notice that?

I know.

Not that one.

It's.

It's wild.

Yeah.

Look at that.

It's crazy.

And you're like, why did they put that on there?

Anyway?

Well, we'll stick with Back to Kobe.

Kobe.

So.

So this idea of predictive programming and Kobe had said he wanted to die young, which is always an alarming thing.

That.

That was per an interview DJ Vlad had with, I think Nick Cannon.

He said that.

And the idea is that there's power in the spoken word.

There's power of manifesting reality, maybe even on a subconscious level.

So when people say that kind of stuff, I think it does hold a certain amount of power.

And what's interesting is that Kobe Bryant believed in magical thinking, which we'll talk about here in a second.

But for him to say he wanted to die young, it reminded me of Ke$ha, the artist who.

She had that very famous song Die young.

Right.

And it was number one on the.

On the.

On the charts.

When an event happened up in Connecticut.

I'm not gonna say the term on here.

Yeah.

But you know what I'm talking about, where bad things happen to a bunch of kids.

And they took that song Down.

And that's understandable.

Right.

But then Kesha come out and said, I never wanted to sing that song.

I was against singing it.

I didn't even like those lyrics.

And they made me.

They forced me to sing this song, which I thought was really weird.

And then.

Then she later has this whole weird fallout with Dr. Luke, her producer, and she had this whole vendetta against the music industry because of, like, some horrible things that happened to her.

Yeah.

Weird, weird stuff that happens sometimes on the sort of subconscious level.

That's kind of the most rational part.

Then you've got the fact that Kobe had made a pact to never fly in a helicopter with his wife, which is.

I mean, I guess it's kind of understandable.

It's also pretty rational because you're like, yeah, because if it goes down and you don't want your kids to have no parents.

So, like, I kind of get that one.

Still kind of strange.

But then it gets weirder because there was a cartoon on Comedy Central called Legend of Chamberlain Heights.

Yeah.

And there was an episode in 2016 called End of Days, which is a curious title.

And there's a scene where a helicopter with Kobe inside of it crashes.

Kobe goes to crawl out of it, and then the helicopter explodes and kills him, and his NBA championship rings roll off.

And these kids pick it up and they say, oh, these are shacks anyway, which, you know, obviously referring to the basketball player Shaq.

And on one level, you think this.

This is just like a diss against Kobe, I guess, and saying that, like, you know, Shaq pulled the weight of the team or whatever.

But to me, I look at that because Shaq's a very prominent Freemason, and I think, well, that's kind of strange.

Like, are they saying, like, this is going to happen and Shaq is going to have something to do with it?

No idea.

These are just speculation.

Yeah.

I mean, the odds of being so in the nose with a helicopter crash.

Curious.

Very weird, right?

Very weird.

And.

And from here, like, if for people who are looking for a reason, if they're like, you have a.

Why.

Why would they do that?

How would they know that?

You have to understand how the occult works and how they think and they believe in hermetic principles, which is.

Well, we can come back to that.

Let me.

Let me put a pin in that.

We can talk hermetic principles later if we get down into it.

But this was also the morning of.

The 6, the 62nd, the Grammys when it happened, which, again, is a very interesting ritualistic date city.

2.

6/2 is 8.

Kobe famously wore number 8 for half of his career.

Yeah, he.

Yeah, that whole thing with the numerology of Kobe is also fascinating because in high school, he was number 33, which is a super occulted number because 33 is the age of Christ.

33 is Christ when he, you know, died and resurrected.

And then 33 is also the highest point of the Scottish rite of Freemasonry, which is like speculative Freemasonry.

And they do initiation rituals, and you can.

You can progress up to the 32nd degree, but only those who make it to 33 have been invited into it.

So it's very much a.

A boys club of, like, who can hold the secrets.

Who.

Who's like, in the boys club.

So his high school jersey was 33.

Yeah.

And 33 basically represents man turning into a God, or apotheosis, which is a recurring theme you'll find in the career of Kobe.

Brya.

And then when he gets into the NBA, he uses the number eight, which is the symbol for the Ouroboros, a snake eating its own tail.

Again, it's immortality, it's apotheosis, it's man becoming God.

And then he changes it to 24.

Because he said he was better than Michael Jordan, and Michael Jordan was the God of basketball.

Right?

So, like, he has this kind of recurring theme that he keeps pushing of.

Of he's more than just a normal player.

He's.

He's a God.

Right?

And.

And this goes into the Black Mamba thing, His.

His alter ego, which.

And.

And to finish the helicopter stuff, there was a.

The rapper Tyga, who I want.

Who I met in Las Vegas one time, by the way.

I didn't meet him, but, like, I walked past, we were going through mgm, and this is before he was super famous.

I just happened to be really into rap music, so I knew who Tyga was.

This is before he got real famous.

And he.

He was walking and I noticed the dude, I was like, well, you can tell.

You can tell with someone famous is kind of walking by.

Like, they just look different, right?

They carry themselves differently.

Pretty short guy.

I'm not the tallest guy on earth, but he was shorter than me.

I walked right past him.

And like, I still kick myself to this day because I really like Tiger as a rapper, as a performer.

But, yeah, he had a video called Young Kobe and there's a helicopter in it.

So did Chief Keef.

He has a video called Kobe Helicopter in it.

Right.

This is all before the death.

This is also One of the most interesting aspects to me is so a few years earlier, LeBron James signed to the Lakers, the soul team that Kobe was on for his whole career.

And 12 hours before Kobe died, LeBron surpassed Kobe for number three on the all time scoring list.

And this happened in the city of Philadelphia where Kobe was born.

And so there's a lot of conjecture around LeBron.

And you know, he's pre NBA ritualistic hand gestures, he's pre game hand gestures, etc.

Like for me, I remember when it happened, I was like, that is weird.

Like, is this a passing the torch sacrifice moment?

You know, which I think there's something to that.

You know, it's like Michael passes to Kobe, Kobe passes to LeBron.

Because LeBron followed in Kobe's footsteps in many ways with the career steps that, that Kobe took with writing books.

Their adoration for a book called the Alchemist, which, which we'll get into here.

I got, I got something on that.

But we got to get up to the point where he releases children's books that are full of occult teachings.

And the main, like one of the most occulted things about Kobe is this alter ego of Black Mamba, which a lot of people I think argue that truthers look too deep into this stuff.

But when you look at the ideas of mind control techniques and knowing how the mind works, you inevitably get into the CIA, MK Ultra stuff, which was studying how to try to dissociate someone's mind, how to force the creation of an alter ego.

Because what they wanted to do was create mentoring candidates or see if they could create a mentoring candidate that could go into a murder in this dissociated state and then come back to their normal self and not even remember it, right?

Like it's like the perfect sort of hitman.

And they were trying to make that happen.

So they were practicing all these ways of disassociating and, and they got this from the, the German, the World War II Germans that we took over here in Operation Paperclip.

Like that's where this came from is these sadistic experiments they were doing over there.

And we were like, oh yeah, cool, let's hire them and bring them over here.

And then we also hired a bunch to do, you know, rocket science with Aleister Crowley's bestie there, Jack Parsons, which gets us into a whole nother rabbit hole of satanic occult stuff.

But in NASA and things like this.

Well, people can go read your books, they can read your books to go all this stuff.

Yeah, yeah, I got one right Here, actually, it's the dark pad.

I just, I just opened up a new shop, so I'm selling, I'm going through my inventories.

But the, the, the Black Mamba was Kobe's alter ego.

And he says many things.

I got some quotes here for people who think like.

Because I think in general, people don't think about this and they just think like, yeah, it's because he's, you know, it's like when you're performing, you're, you're, you're putting on a show and you're just like, you know, you got to sort of pump it up and you got to harness some kind of other personality.

And he said, Kobe said I had to separate myself.

It felt like there were so many things coming at once.

It was just becoming very, very confusing.

I had to organize things, so I created the Black Mamba.

And then he said that Kobe was tasked with dealing with all of his personal challenges while the Black Mamba handled business on the court.

And he uses a symbol for the black.

There's like two symbols.

And maybe you guys can correct me here, but there's two symbols he uses primarily of what I believe is the Black Mamba.

And then the one is like that sort of looks like a cross of sorts with almost like you could, you could interpret to a two headed snake on it, which is very reminiscent of the Freemasonic double headed eagle.

Right.

And you always see the eagle iconography mixed in with snake iconography.

You know, snake represents Lucifer.

The eagle is actually representation of man becoming God.

It's the alchemical process of turning into the phoenix.

Because the eagle in occult Freemasonry is the phoenix mythical bird.

And the reason I say that is from Manly P. Hall.

He talks about this in the Secret Teachings of All Ages, which is a very difficult book to read.

I don't recommend that for beginners.

I don't.

I don't even recommend it.

For me, it's so difficult.

I'm like, what is this guy talking about?

But then another version of a symbol that I've seen.

And I don't know if this is the Black Mamba or just something different Kobe had.

But there was A.

The 8, right, which is his basketball jersey number.

And it's the ouroboros of the snake eating his tail, which again is the idea of regeneration.

It's the idea of man becoming God.

Like it's this apotheosis theme that he constantly is, is showing us, right?

So all of that was like, fine.

Because when he, when he, when he Died.

You know, when celebrities die in tragic early fashion like this, it.

All the speculation happens, right?

And I really try to focus in on it and see if there's anything there before I just sort of like, you know, jump in the ring with everyone else who's trying to like, sensationalize someone's tragic.

You know, this guy, it sucks because, like, the guy had a wife and kids and it's like his, his eldest.

Daughter died with him as well as her whole team.

Like, yeah.

And this is, this is also another issue we find in our.

In this world of alternative research and conspiracy is like, people can't wait.

Like, it's like, no, I have to be the first one to tell the story and then I gotta jump on the bandwagon and I gotta come to my conclusions.

It's like, what, you know, it all after a day, you have all the answers.

You know exactly what it is.

Day one after an event, like, come on.

Yeah, we, we become experts on everything that, you know, we experts on health and there were experts on the economy, There were experts on Kobe Bryant.

Like, I, I totally get it.

I totally get it.

And I think like, a general lack of empathy comes through in some of the extreme truth seeker archetypes as well, where it's like, oh, someone just falls into this category, therefore they weren't human, they didn't have lives, there's no separation of anything going on, etc, you know, like, for me, man, like, I love Kobe.

Like, Kobe's legacy was and is a huge inspiration to me.

Just the drive, the will, you know, getting over the hump, etc, whatever it might be.

And it's like.

But I'm able to separate that from whatever else there might be there as well, you know?

Right.

And I feel you, man.

And I, that's the struggle I constantly have with it because I look at stuff like, even though I didn't know Kobe, I, you know, don't know much about him.

I had no connection to him whatsoever.

Like, I feel for him as a human being.

It's like, dude, this is tragic, man.

This sucks.

Like, no matter what happened, it's like his wife and kids are like, and the one kid, like you said died with him.

It's like, what an awful experience.

So, like, I hate how sleazy it feels, but nonetheless, it is how it rolls.

It's like, these are trending topics and people want to like, find some meaning in it all.

And like, I guess the comparable example for me would be Ozzy Osborne.

Like, I really liked Ozzy Osbourne.

A lot.

I don't know if he was a good dude or not.

Like, it seemed like he had issues with alcohol and seems like he wasn't the most loyal, devoted husband on the planet.

I mean, there's also a ton of like, satanic symbolism of what he does.

But nonetheless, I just like you, I can sort of separate those things and be like, it doesn't really matter.

Like, to me, it's, what did the music mean to me?

How did it make me feel?

How did it get through?

How did it get me through hard times in my past?

Yeah.

And then it's.

This is him.

Like, this is a guy who had a family that they all seem to love each other very much.

So, like, he seemed like he was a pretty good dad and husband and it's none of my business to begin with anyway.

Even if he was a terrible husband or a great husband, it doesn't matter, right?

Like, people miss him and.

But then on the same hand, I also feel like I can talk about him and say, well, this is.

Some of this because I did a whole show about him and I read through his book, I Am Ozzy.

And there's actually a lot of sort of capitulation he had about Satanism because in the, the beginning of Black Sabbath, they were, they were purposely evoking like, satanic symbolism.

Like, Geezer Butler was really into the occult and he had this book which Ozzy, as the legend goes, there was a.

This 16th century magic book and they saw these dark shadow figures and it freaked Ozzy out and whatever.

And that's where like Black Sabbath came from.

And they, they employ a lot of that dark imagery in all of their, their albums and, and work.

And to me, I really, like, I talked about the beginning of the show.

Like, I'm really drawn to that.

It's really fascinating to me.

It doesn't make me want to worship the devil or like, you know, kill animals or something crazy.

Is it like his lyrics to Mr. Tinker Train, they're pretty weird too.

Have you read those?

They seem a little like potentially pedophilic or something.

Totally.

Yeah, totally.

Yep.

That.

And, and you know, he had a whole song to Mr. Crowley, right?

Which is Aleister Crowley.

And I think when, I think when he.

I think Mr. Crowley was written with Randy Rhodes, the guy who people claim is the blood sacrifice for Ozzy.

He was the, the guitarist and he helped Ozzy write his tracks when he went solo.

He died in that plane crash right next to Ozzy, basically.

Yeah, there's a lot of weird stuff With Ozzy.

And it goes back and forth because in his book he, he.

He talks about, like, how weird he thought these satanic people were.

And he was like, he didn't like that.

He didn't really like the, the weird vibes he was getting from a lot of people.

But the, the, you know, the music was like, people liked it, so he just kept doing it.

And some people say that he even would say prayers before every concert, like he was a Christian.

So I, I don't know.

It's hard to know what's real and what's like, propaganda.

Yeah.

But anyway, going back to Kobe.

Yeah.

One other thing I want to mention.

You know how I mentioned it was the, the day of the 62nd Grammys Awards, so they were actually being held in Staples center where like, Kobe spent his whole career as well.

And so just think about like, in terms of the potential of like a mass televised energy harvesting thing.

Like all eyes then came onto Staples center as not just this musical kind of awards celebration, but like, as a memorial, you know, so to speak, as well.

Just really like harnessing whatever was in the field there.

And that's, and that's one of the ideas of when people try to understand how this works.

Eliphaz Levy, who was a French occultist magician, he talked about the magnetic chain and how you could basically charge up sigils and symbols with enough energy and focus.

And that's kind of what the idea of when, When Nazi Germany took the Olympics, they, they incorporated the opening ceremony because they used to not do it this way before and because they were really into like, pagan occult stuff.

Right.

So they, they started the tradition of the, the Olympic flame going all the way to.

What's it called, Mount Hera in Greece or something like that?

Anyway, Yeah, I don't know the exact.

Yeah, the first opening ceremony, was that those Berlin Games, what was it?

Munich or Berlin?

I remember anyway.

Yeah, I think it was Berlin.

But yeah, yeah, that was, that was because the occultists and the Nazi party, they, they made that happen.

That's interesting.

I always wondered what.

Where it's such a big ordeal.

And then obviously we can have multiple episodes just talking about the different opening ceremonies from the Olympics and like, what they're potentially like, programming the public to get ready for.

I mean, that's weird as hell too.

And they're so odd.

It's like, how does this, what does this have to do with like, a bunch of like, amazing, like, athletes from different countries about to compete against each other?

It's like, so odd.

Some of these.

Yeah, that's one of those.

That's one of those things that over the years, you know, there's certain events that everybody's clamoring for.

The.

The symbolism breakdown, and it's the opening ceremonies, the closing ceremonies, and the Super Bowl.

The Super Bowl.

So, like, those are.

Those are my overtime days.

Anytime that happens, I'm like, clear the calendar.

I'm.

We're not doing nothing.

I gotta be locked in on this thing because, you know, everyone just wants the interpretation.

And you're right.

What you said earlier, you're 100% right.

There's this battle that happens of theorist who can get it out first.

Because I've been the.

I've been labeled this before, too.

Like, if you're a little late and you happen to find the same information, people like, oh, he stole that from this other guy.

And it's like, truth is just we.

We slice each other's throats as fast as humanly possible.

And it's like, you build a following online, social media, and you almost feel this pressure, like, I have to comment.

I have to comment on something, you know, right away.

You know, people.

People are waiting for me to comment, you know, Totally.

And that's how.

That's how it goes.

And that's just the nature of it, unfortunately.

But I try to.

I try to be.

I try to.

I try to sort of leverage things beforehand.

Like, if I know who's performing at the Super Bowl, I'll kind of go through their whole catalog, watch all their music videos, and.

And sort of come up with like, okay, here's all the themes of what I see from them.

So let's see what happens at the Super Bowl.

Like, I kind of do that.

And also, too.

It's a matter of communication, too, because you see people, how they communicate, and they come across as very absolute, as opposed to, you can communicate the same information and go, hey, this is where I am at right now in my research.

I know this event just happened.

These are my thoughts.

I'm open to changing.

I'm open to things shifting down the road.

And that tells a completely different story.

As opposed to day one, day two, right after, okay, this is what happened.

The Kobe murder.

This is.

Or the Kobe death, et cetera, et cetera.

And so I think it's like.

I think that allows you some grace where you go, listen, you know, I could comment on something right away, and I have enough space to go.

I could be wrong, and I may change my point of view down the road.

That's just, you Know my two cents on that.

Yeah.

And I think that those are important things to, to consider.

Right.

Because I've, I've.

Man, what was I doing recently?

There's something I did.

Oh, the Ozzy show.

I did.

I, I mistakenly said that he was from Leamington Spa when he was actually from Birmingham.

Like, pretty famously from Birmingham.

I don't know anything about England or the uk.

I've never been there.

But Leamington Spas were Aleister Crowley and Leon Vitales from.

Leon Vitale from Eyes Wide Shut and Kubrick's History.

But the.

He actually lived in Leamington Spa when he was the beginning of Black Sabbath.

So I had to stand corrected there.

But yeah, so sometimes in the rush to sort of get something out, you kind of get things wrong a little bit.

And.

Yeah, and that's okay.

The thing is.

That's okay.

It is okay.

Like, yeah, we're all human.

We all make errors.

Again, how do we come across?

You know, do we have integrity with what we put forth?

Do we take responsibility?

Oh, yeah, I was, I was mistaken there.

Like, there's nothing wrong with that.

I just, I have the issues with the hardcore absolutists that are just like, I'm right, I know the answers.

Yeah, absolutely.

I agree with you 100% on that.

It's, it's.

It.

I feel like it makes you kind of less human and less trustworthy.

But.

Hey.

But yeah, the, the, the, the Olympic flame, the idea is, is like what Elvis Levy was saying would be to go to your Staples Center.

Point is you get mass focus and mass attention, and it's like a concert that the performer can feel the energy from the crowd and it sort of charges them up.

And that's kind of the idea with the Living Flame.

Like, we're all focused on watching this flame and it's like this huge central point of the, of the ceremony.

Right, but these are all ideas that tie into the realm of magic.

These are not.

These are, These are ideas that Kobe Bryant subscribed to as well.

Because when he died, I didn't know this at the time.

On my first show I did about him.

It was like my second or third show where I unpacked his kids books.

I read through.

He had two books released at the time through a media company he started called Granity.

And if you read through the books, Granity is based on a term that he called.

I think it's called grana in the books and it means magic.

And he's talking about, you know, and you could argue that all this is just like Disney, right?

Disney talks about magic and it's like, for kids.

So, like, I get that that's one angle of this, but the other angle is you're talking about real occult practices and real hermetic principles of magic and literally manifesting new realities.

And.

And Kobe talks a lot about this kind of stuff.

Right.

And.

And.

And look, aren't there positive elements, though, of that?

Like, man, totally.

Realities.

Yeah.

Yes.

Obviously hermeticism is very much so aligned with, you know, natural law principles and things like that as well.

So just not to throw these words out there then.

People just cling to these words, like hermetic, everything.

Hermetic is evil, you know.

Right, Totally.

Because.

And that's where.

That's where I get kind of trapped into this.

This state of not being sure where to go with it.

Because I practiced a lot of New Age stuff, read a lot of New Age things, meditation.

I've done yoga before, you know, who hasn't?

But I was really into quantum thinking and stuff.

Like Dr. Joe Dispenza's books I read.

What the bleep do we know, like, two of those books.

Who's the guy who's the Toltec priest who does all the.

For what's it called anyway?

Don Miguel Ruiz.

Yeah, yeah.

I've read a couple of his books.

So, like, all those things are very inspirational to me.

They're very good.

It's very good to have positive thinking.

So, like, that there is that element of you do create your own reality with your thoughts.

Like, if you sit here and think negatively about things all day long, you're going to be in a negative state.

You will create your own hell and you will live in it.

I 100 believe in that.

So I'm not condemning all magical thinking or all New Age thoughts, but that's the focus of the show as I talk about the occult and these sort of hidden.

Hidden ideas and occult esoteric ideas.

And that includes hermetic thinking, ritual, magic.

And Kobe was also into this stuff.

And that's not to say he worshiped the devil by any means, but he was definitely into occult concepts, which is why he named his multimedia company Granity, which means magic to him.

That was his interpretation of the term magic.

And he said repeatedly his favorite book was the Alchemist by Paul A. Coelho, same as LeBron James.

Like, they both said that that was their favorite book, which.

It's a lot of people's favorite book, to be fair.

I mean, I read it four times.

I love that book.

So I'm curious.

I actually.

Because you wrote a book of this, so yeah, you can maybe touch on some things related to that.

Because I feel like a lot of our audiences listen to like, I read that book.

I kind of like it.

It's a simple, sweet story about listening to your heart and following your dreams and paying attention to the omens.

I think the person who probably hasn't read it is LeBron.

He probably, he's probably on page one on his, on, on an interview.

And the reporter's like, so what do you think about the Alchemist?

Well, you know, it's a, it's a great story and it's filled with a lot of education and it's a lot of things to help people.

You guys aren't LeBron fans or what?

Well, no, I mean, I, I, no, I listen as I play basketball.

I love basketball.

I was, I admire excellence, you know, I do admire excellence.

And so you have someone like LeBron who's had the most projections onto him coming into the league as a 16 year old and like, has pretty much lived up to them and exceeded them.

So I respect them there, you know, as an athlete.

But like, come on, like him holding the Malcolm X book at the interviews, like, it's like, who are the handlers that go walk out with this book?

And yeah, there's like a history of like him lying and just pretending to have done things and read things, etc that like, he obviously hasn't.

They're just going on these weird rambles that like a completely different to the, the book in question or whatever it might be.

Okay, I didn't know any of that.

I didn't know any of that.

Okay, interesting.

Beyond any like sociopolitical stuff that he gets behind, but just, it's just funny, you know, he holds a book and it's usually like, like the first couple pages that are like, that are like, like he's holding or bookmarked or something.

I think a well known one was the, was the Malcolm X one.

I think he was like holding it and then someone asked him questions about the Malcolm X book and it was like obvious he hadn't read the book.

It was so vague and so general.

Was a good man and you know, like.

All right, bro, give us some details.

Okay, continue.

I mean, at least, at least watch the movie, bro.

Come on.

Yeah, so.

So yeah, the reason the Alchemist has it's, it's got a lot of like New age occult ideas within it of alchemy, obviously.

Right.

And the author, Paul Coelho in his history he was actually practicing black magic.

He went to some Jesuit school.

He was in a punk rock band that had.

Because he was a, he was a follower of Aleister Crowley.

He was actually a Thelemite.

Crowley had a religion called Thelema and Coelho was, was.

He had lyrics adoring Thelema.

I forgot what the line was.

There was a line he would repeat in the song about this new age coming that Crowley talked about called the Aeon of Horus.

So he for sure at some, you know, in his history was into this very like occulted stuff of Aleister Crowley.

And you know, that's, that's, that's the point of the, the Alchemist is it is based upon alchemy and the hermetic wisdom, which it depends on how crazy you want to get, right?

I think that all of these new age practices, they're a funnel.

And the funnel can lead you all the way into like left hand path, Luciferian thought and even Gnostic thought, right?

And that's the like the warning I would have.

And I don't even care if people want to worship the devil.

If people want to believe that we live in a simulation.

Like, doesn't bother me one bit.

I could care less.

I have friends that are atheist friends that have satanic tattoos.

Like it bothers me none at all.

I just think people should be aware of the influences.

Like if someone is fervently Christian and they're trying to live a Christian lifestyle, I would never tell them, well, don't read the Alchemist because that's rooted in, you know, black magic, Satanism, because that's what the author was into.

I would just tell them the author was into this stuff.

So like know that there might be a, a funnel where you get into this thing and you start practicing and next thing you know you're doing shadow work.

Next thing you know you're subscribing to Gnostic thought.

And then the next thing you know you're worshiping the devil, right?

Like that's a possible progression.

I don't know how many people actually go all the way down that pipeline.

But it's possible, right?

Like you can't be totally naive.

You know, what does the Bible say?

Be wise as serpents.

Because, because these things can sort of chip away at, at things.

And sometimes you could argue with me.

They're like, well, yeah, it's because, you know, organized religion is a man made thing to deceive us.

And it's like, okay, I mean there's elements of that, that I, I see and I agree with some elements of that that I think.

I, I think the important thing is, is that every individual has a mind and it's like, how do you use it and how do you discern and how do you not throw the baby out with the bathroom water?

Right.

You know, don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Exactly.

You know, because again, like we can have a whole conversation on, on organized religion, like you said, we can have a whole conversation on the issues with, you know, certain new age things or psychology and then.

But there's also gold to be mined within there.

So I think it's up to the individual to go, hey, how can I utilize this to know myself better, to have a better life and to be a good human being, you know, without getting sucked into the dogma of it or being taken down a path that pulls you further away from, from who you are at your essence.

But anyways, same, same with psychedelics.

I think they're very powerful tools you could use.

You could also ruin your entire life with them.

I mean, I, I agree, man.

We've had conversations on that, especially looking at things from a physiological and a nervous system standpoint as well.

I wanna, I just want to add a caveat.

I know you seem to be pretty conclusive on Aleister Crowley.

I know previously we mentioned both being like influenced along our journeys by Michael Tercerian in certain aspects.

Michael actually mounts a defense for Crowley.

And Michael believes Crowley is one of the most demonized characters in history and has been weaponized as this massive boogeyman of the occult.

But there is other narratives around there about Crowley.

Just whoever's listening, like maybe it's not as, as conclusive, but I want to share that article with you that Michael wrote on Crowley after this show as well, actually might open some other perspectives potentially.

Yeah, for sure.

I, I think that there, I think there is an element of him being demonizing him leaning into that and sort of just like rolling with it for the publicity and, and you know, yeah, it feels good that people talk about you, I guess.

But he's also, he was like horrifically abusive to his, his wives.

He drove them insane to the point of being institutionalized and them killing themselves.

He was horrific to animals and which sacrificed them and he supposedly even allegedly sacrificed a baby at the Abbey of the Lima in Italy and that's why Mussolini kicked him out.

So I, I, it's a, it's amazing, man.

Maybe there's redeeming qualities, but like to him, I'm Like F. Crowley all day.

Like, yeah, bro.

Yeah.

So.

I don't know.

I, I don't.

Michael Siren knows far more about Crowley than I do, so, like, I, I definitely would consider what he has to say, for sure.

Well, yeah, totally.

And I think this is it.

Even in the name of our podcast.

We say this all the time.

We're here for the truth.

Like, I like to be open to things.

Like, I want to check myself when I feel like I'm so sure about something.

I want to see what can I do to create a little space to go.

Maybe there's something I'm missing.

Doesn't mean I take.

I, like, don't follow my convictions because I'm going to continue to do that.

But I like this, even this little conversation here.

Like, there's probably so much truth to what you're saying and maybe, maybe there are stuff that, that our audience like, may not be aware of and, and they each can go down their own path and like, read whatever books they want to read and come to their own fucking concl.

Conclusions.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I do think that you've got a.

There's also a, you know, this was.

He was around, you know, 100 years ago, different culture back then.

Zeitgeist was probably different at the time.

Yeah.

So.

So, I mean, there's a lot of, there's a lot of angles you could run with that.

And I think no one's perfect.

So, like.

But anyway, he, he did say something about how, like, he was Satan's right hand man.

Unless he was again, like, unless he was just being sensational for people, who knows, you know, but, but to get back to Kobe, what I find the most interesting about Kobe's sort of odd connections to the occult is these, these kids books he had because.

And I, I've got two of them here that I read through.

The first was the wizard series Training Camp, which was the first book that he wrote.

And it was March 31, 2020, that it released.

So it was right after his death.

And it's.

I got some notes here.

The, The New York Times called it a story of strain and sacrifice, supernatural breakthroughs and supreme dedication to the game.

And in the book, the.

There's this presence there, this guy named Professor Robbie who is constantly whispering in the boy's ears, sort of like train, like grooming them, telling them what to do.

Very much like Aleister Crowley's holy guardian angel called Awaz, because Awas would whisper into his ear and inspire him and stuff.

Right.

But the storyline is about These kids going through various initiations to go to this training camp to play basketball.

And they would go through these ritualistic initiations where they would have to face death, they would face fears, face the darkness, which is a classic sort of initiation tactic of going from dark to light and also facing one's own death.

And the boys sign a contract with this Professor Ro Lobby guy, the wizard.

They sign a contract for wisdom so they can be better at basketball and, you know, get fame and fortune and all these things.

It's a Faustian bargain, basically.

And the contract says that they're bound to the laws in the kingdom of.

Of Granity, which is like this magical realm.

And the first book is about the.

It's about a few characters.

One of them's name is Rain, and Rain is actually Kobe.

Like, it's about Kobe himself.

So he kind of is allegorically explaining how he got famous, which you could argue like, did he sign a Faustian bargain?

You could argue that, right.

And each initiate tells their sort of perspective of this story and of them going through all these different rituals.

And Ro Lobi is described as a witch or a wizard.

And they go through various stages of rituals with like pyramids and mountains and mirrors, which are all very occulted.

But what's interesting is that they confront their shadow, which is like a very Carl Jungian principle.

They confront the dark side, which is Kobe's black Mamba.

And in the story, they.

There's this like traumatic stuff that happens to them with these alchemical things that happen with this black goo.

But what's crazy is that there's a story about how the kids parents would die in an accident orchestrated by the government, which I thought, like, that's kind of.

That's kind of weird, right?

And then when we talk about Kobe's connections to China, it gets even weirder.

Right?

And I don't know if we're gonna have time for that today, but let me go through the second book real quick, because the second book has even crazier stuff in it.

And the second book is called the Tree of Ecroft.

It's force spelled backwards because force is a reference to the ideas of Star wars, which is also very occulted.

It's about balancing the force and confronting the shadow and Luke confronting Darth Vader.

But the.

The book, the Tree of Ecroft is about this.

This character named Precia, who makes a Faustian pack with this Luciferian energy, this spirit in exchange for athletic prowess.

So again, just like the other book, it's about a Kid sort of making this bargain to become a great athlete.

And in the book, she lights this flame to this fallen God named Harel.

And Harel gives her these magical abilities.

And in the story, she has this shadow version of herself that comes out and the shadow version takes over.

And the shadow version is so good at sports and athleticism that she's dangerous.

Like, the shadow side takes over her body and almost like kills any of her competitors because she's.

She's so, so good at this.

This sport.

Right.

And there's a lot of strange things in the book with.

They talk about magic, of course, and this academy of magic and how they talk about how she got this magic from.

From Harel, that.

That fallen God, and the.

And you find out that the magic that she got from Harel was actually a cursed magic.

That's why the.

The shadow is so sort of dangerous.

But she.

She.

She goes through this process of trying to, like, manage this shadow to.

So that she can use the athleticism.

And while she's at this academy trying to learn this stuff, they teach her all these occult practices like visualization and going into what they call the selfless zone, where it's like a death of the ego kind of realm, and you let the shadow take over and.

And.

And all the while, they're going through the study of magic.

Kind of like Harry Potter type stuff.

Right?

And the.

Let's see.

I got one more note here.

Okay, so that.

So there's a bunch of stuff that happens.

But anyways, at the end of the book plot, spoiler coming.

She walks in on her uncle, and her uncle is on his knees praying to this fallen God, Harel.

And the uncle tells her, hey, you know, evil isn't always a bad thing.

And that's how the book ends.

Like, that's insane.

Really.

It's crazy.

Yeah, you'd have to read it.

It's pretty wild that he put that in a book.

And then Lebron, like I said, he followed in Kobe's footsteps.

It's kind of like you alluded to is like, maybe there's this sort of passing of the torch.

Also, he was very much into the alchemist, which, by the way, Kobe was writing a book with Paul A. Coelho when he died, and Paul Quell.

And you would think anyone on earth would continue to publish this book either because they want the money, because it's got Kobe's name on it, or because out of respect and to be like, hey, this was a project he was working on.

I wanted to see it through completion Whatever.

No, Paul Coelho burned it.

He threw it in the garbage and was like, we're not doing this after he died, so whatever.

But LeBron also started writing kids books just like Kobe did.

And.

And there's all these theories about Kobe and.

Or LeBron being in the.

The boule, which is like the.

The supposedly, like the Black Skull and Bones secret society.

That's what that big chest, that big tattoo on LeBron's chest is.

It's like of a big sort of lion, and it's the same logo as the boule.

So, I mean, he could have been in the boule.

I. I don't know.

I don't know.

I haven't dug in enough on LeBron.

I know he has a crazy.

You guys are making me interested now, all this talk about him.

I know.

I'm kind of curious.

Yeah.

LeBron's interesting for sure, man.

For sure.

And we think about the potential for a Faustian bargain, you know, like, what comes to mind for me is that 2003, 2006 period, he was in a rape trial, right?

Yeah.

And then all of a sudden, the accuser doesn't testify, and then it's after that where he changes his name to Black Mamba.

The Nike campaigns resume.

He wins his number then, or what.

Did he change his number then as well?

He changed his number then as well.

Oh, the Nike campaigns resume.

He wins two championships without Shaq, etc.

Like, that's.

He really skyrocketed post that.

Right.

That rape trial, which he was never convicted of.

Yeah.

And, you know, if you're in a.

Compromised position at a certain point, and it's like, oh, hello, you know.

Yeah, because you know that.

That's like, kind of more mobster style things, right?

Like, you can.

You can like, humiliation ritual stuff.

It's.

It's.

And I think that's part of what the Diddy trial was, is I think Diddy, you know, Kanye west said Diddy was a fed, and I believe that.

And I think Diddy has a lot of footage and knows a lot of.

Has a lot of connections.

And like I said, there was.

Lil Rod said that Lucian Grange, the.

The guy who basically is the.

The main figure in all of modern day music.

He was hanging out with Diddy at some of these parties.

And I think that.

I think that he.

I think Diddy's plugged into intelligence agencies, and I think he's.

He knows where a lot of bodies are buried, and I think he was maybe getting a little too reckless.

So the.

The powers that be Might have checked him and been like, hey, man, you better watch it, because we could really mess you up.

Kind of like this whole thing with maybe.

Maybe the rape trial is like, maybe they're saying, like, hey, look, I don't know if you know who runs this thing, but, like, we could really ruin your life.

So, like, maybe they scare the crap out of them because Diddy was looking at life in prison.

He was literally supposed to be in there forever.

And I think.

I thought.

I thought I was.

I.

Not that I was going deep into the trial, but I expected.

It was like, okay, there's so much shit on him.

People have been talking about him, and then all of a sudden, it's like, oh, yeah.

Kind of like a slap on the wrist.

Yeah, it's.

It's bizarre.

I followed the case every.

Every transcript, every day I read, and I kind of thought that he was going to get off based on the things they were talking about.

And.

And it was just like, the Epstein thing.

I was like, why are we not talking about the bigger picture here of, like, the.

The.

All these other people involved and how all these people.

You know, because if you watch the First 48, I. I learned the law through TV, and they told me, if you're participating in doing it, like, if I.

If me and my buddy want to go rob this guy's house over here, and we break in and we stealing stuff, and the guy comes out with a gun and shoot and kills my friend, I'm going to prison for murder.

Like, that's the way it works.

So, like, when Jay Z is best friends with Diddy, I'm like, how is he not involved in any of this?

Right?

Diddy had that.

That baby mama that.

That died unexpectedly, too, right around the time Beyonce was around.

And there's a lot of weird things, and I'm just like, this is such nonsense.

The whole thing was crazy.

I was like, this is crazy.

They even took this to trial.

You know, the Southern district of New York has this supposedly, like, 99.5% success rate, and, like, they were coming out with the weakest stuff.

I was like, this is crazy, man.

Because even just reading through it, like, I think Diddy's a scumbag for sure, but, like, the.

The feeling I got reading through the transcripts was that they basically were trying to condemn him for being into freaky stuff and having.

And having.

And watching his girl have some other dude, like, drop the pipe.

And I'm like, well, I don't know.

Like, I'm not into that, but, like, That's.

You certainly shouldn't go to prison the rest of your life for that.

And I think that's what the jury thinks too.

They're like, well, I don't know, what do you want us to do?

He's freaky.

Who cares?

It's legal.

You're allowed to have freak offs.

But yeah, yeah, but it's the other stuff, right?

It's the other stuff that Little was all in little Rob's lawsuit that I was like, what about all of that?

Are we not going to talk about any of these things?

Like, there was a.

He was plugged into a lot of crazy stuff.

Yeah.

But anyways, videos with Justin Bieber and Usher, you know, that was, that video.

With Bieber was so creepy.

Yeah.

You know, dude's creepy for sure.

And I'm like, I find it hard to believe they don't have more things they could have thrown at him.

Exactly.

But I don't think that was the point.

I think the point was to scare him and to, for them to get him back in line so he could keep providing intel for them for whatever it is he's doing.

I, I know we probably need more time for this and you just have 10 minutes, but I.

Something I just want to touch on because it's a conversation I've, I've had with people.

When Michael Jordan left the NBA for two years to go play baseball, which was odd, you know, he's at the height of, you know who he player his prime, and then his father also dies.

Like, what are your thoughts on that?

Like the connections between that and of course, you know, he's had a big history of gambling and, and there are different thoughts and speculations on what may have occurred in your research.

What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah, I, I actually had never looked into this until you guys asked me that and I was like, well, let me look into it.

I don't know much about, about the story of his dad.

The only thing, the first thing that came to mind was Kanye west, who said something about how people go missing and how Michael Jordan's dad got killed for fame or whatever.

And I, I was like, what?

But Kanye west is kind of a crazy dude.

So I, he is, dude.

I don't, I don't get.

I don't get him either.

Seems like a glitch, dude.

Seems like a glitch.

Glitch.

Yeah.

I, I don't know what to make of the guy.

Sometimes he says stuff that, like I was defending him back in like2013 when he, when he was going on Sway in the morning.

And you know the answer.

Sway?

You didn't have the answers.

You know the answer is right.

Because he said a lot of stuff that I was like, if you could turn down the volume and all the crazy stuff.

Like, he's saying a lot of interesting things about how we're controlled by symbols and things.

And I.

But he's gone off the deep end, in my opinion, so I don't really pay attention to him anymore.

But he did say something about Michael Jordan's dad.

So anyways, I looked into all this because I was like, well, I don't know much about it when you guys asked me on the email.

And his dad died July 23, 1993.

And the story is that he was sleeping in his Lexus and got robbed in Lumberton, North Carolina, and they shot and killed him.

They find his body 11 days later.

And right off the bat, you get into a lot of ideas of numerology, which I'm not heavy into Gematria stuff, but there's an element there that could be, you know, worth looking at.

And, you know, if he died on the 23rd, that's in Discordian.

They call it the law of fives or the 23 enigma, that things always happen with the 23.

And that was Jordan's number.

Oh, yeah.

I didn't.

Duh.

Yeah.

I should have known that I was a huge Jordan fan when I was growing up.

I didn't even think about that.

Good.

Good call.

No, I didn't know that's when.

That's the date he died on.

So that's.

Yeah.

Also the, the first day of Leo.

Don't know if that's interesting.

Oh, I don't.

You know what's funny is like, I, I keep meaning to, like, get into astrology to understand it better, but I, I, it's confusing as it all get out to me.

Well, that is interesting.

The first day of Leo, the line.

And you brought up LeBron and the lion tattoo of the, of the, of whatever that the bullet black Illuminati is.

Whatever you said it was.

Yeah, yeah.

Look at us.

Look at us, guys.

I know.

We're making connections.

Let's start the podcast.

Get it out there, get it out there.

So, so, yeah, the 23, which.

Good point.

With the Michael Jordan jersey, then you got.

It was 1993.

93 is the, the number for Aleister Crowley's religion Thelema.

It also happened in Lumberton, North Carolina, which is where David lynch filmed Blue Velvet, or I should say it's where Blue Velvet takes place.

He actually filmed it in Wilmington, North Carolina.

But Lumberton, the only reason that came to my ex, I was like, oh, that's crazy, because Lumberton has all these.

Blue Velvet has all these connections with Twin Peaks, which is a fascination of mine.

If anyone's interested in Twin Peaks, I got a 55 episode deep dive on my Patreon.

You got to check out.

Oh, wow.

Just on Twin Peaks.

Just on Twin Peaks.

Everybody hates it.

Everyone on my feet is like, dude, shut up about the Twin Peaks.

And I couldn't help it.

Our show.

It was my favorite show.

Why you ruin it, bro?

I. I'm obsessed.

I absolutely love Twin Peaks.

I only started watching it just a couple years ago, and I watched it over the years.

So many people said, you got to watch Twin Peaks.

And I was like, I've never seen it.

I don't care.

And I got so sick in 2023, I'd seen everything.

I was like, well, let me try it again.

And I tried it again.

Didn't like it.

The whole.

The whole journey, I had ups and downs where I was like, this is stupid.

I don't even get it.

And I made it through.

And I was like, well, fine.

I finally finished it all.

It's like, you know, because it's a lot of content.

And I tried to go back to sort of watching the things I wanted to watch finally, but I. I didn't care.

All I could think about was Twin Peaks.

I was like, dude, what is up with this?

It, like, totally got in my brain.

And that's such a familiar experience for so many Twin Peaks fans.

And I was like, you know what?

All these people over the years wanted me to talk about Twin Peaks effort.

I'm doing it.

I'm doing an episode on every piece of Twin Peaks.

Every episode.

The movie, the books, everything.

I'm making a comprehensive theory.

And it pissed people off more than anything.

I mean, there's a handful of people that are Die Hards that were like, hell, yeah, this is great.

But most people were like, oh, my God, stop it already.

So that's funny in hindsight.

Don't do that ever.

Okay?

Start a whole separate podcast if you're gonna really nerd out.

Anyway, so.

Yeah, but like I said, the conspiracies are that Jordan was addicted to gambling and this was some kind of punishment.

You know, he was known for gambling excessively and apparently owed, I don't know, the mafia, lots of money.

But, like, he was good for it, right?

Like, the dude's Rich.

So I don't understand.

I don't know about that theory.

Another idea that I came across was NBA commissioner David Stern wanted to suspend him because of all this gambling problems.

So instead it somehow looked better for him to retire because his dad dies.

And then a few months later, Jordan retires from basketball.

Just like you said at the peak of his career.

They just.

The Bulls are just three people.

Yeah, it's three feet.

It's.

It is insane.

It doesn't make any sense.

I didn't realize this at all until I was looking into this.

I was like, that is weird.

Like, why would he do that?

And the, the.

What's strange is that when he came back to basketball, he came back to the Washington Wizards and the Wizards.

Ties us into all this occult stuff and magic.

Well, first he came back and won three more.

Three more championships with the Bulls.

And then he switched to the Wizards.

He had two.

Yeah, people were saying, oh, you could have maybe won eight straight, you know, but instead he takes a break.

The Rockets win two titles and then, and then he comes back and then they win three titles.

The second.

Geez.

Yeah, see, I, I had stopped watching sports around that time, so I didn't see him when he came back and that.

Listen, do you have any sports questions, bro?

We could be your consultants, you know, just credit us in your episode.

Yeah, dude, I might actually take you up on that because there's a lot of interesting sports conspiracy that I just don't have the background.

I didn't know he came back in three.

He really was like the best man.

Hard to mess with his like 6.06Finals MVPs.

I mean, it's never, never lost the finals appearance.

Yeah, man.

I mean, that's crazy.

Yeah, so.

So the, the idea is the, the idea you will find in a lot of Truth or Circuits is that.

Well, the.

It was a blood sacrifice.

You have to, you have to sacrifice one of your, you know, most loved people for the Illuminati.

Right?

So he put his dad on the, on the hit list.

Right.

And what, what.

I guess like the only connection I could maybe link that to say.

Yeah, maybe there's something.

There is because Jordan was the one that put Nike on.

They were, they weren't, they were nothing before Jordan.

They were, you know, Adidas and Converse had all the basketball stars.

Nike had nobody.

They signed him as a rookie.

He specifically Jordan made Nike a multi billion dollar industry.

He's still collecting hundreds of millions a year in checks from Air Jordan shoes.

I mean, it's crazy.

So he, he's a great movie, by.

The way, that, that Nike movie on that.

I think, I think I've seen that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's pretty interesting.

But the Nike symbolism, if you look at it, you know, Nike means like the goddess of victory.

But in, I think David, Ike was the first person that.

Or maybe it's Freeman Fly was the one, the first that talked about this.

The swoosh is actually showing us a.

The ring of Saturn, which, like, that's the only connection I could make into this idea of sacrifice.

Because when you get into some of the darker aspects of Left Hand Path occultism, you'll find the Fraternatus Saturnus, which is like the brotherhood of Saturn in this cult of the Black Cube.

And I just read this book by Arthur Morris called the Cult of the Black Cube that if anyone's trying to understand how this is a real thing, like, read the book because it goes through a few ancient cultures and one existing Saturnian culture in India.

And it gets, it's really out there on some levels because it talks, because you have to understand the history of the occult.

And there's a book by Mark Booth called the Secret History of the World that explains this bizarre interpretation they have of the creation of our world.

And they attribute Saturn as to being this sort of like, chaotic force.

And it's, it's supposed to, in terms of initiation, it's.

The Saturnian force is supposed to be the outer or the adversary.

And it's kind of the final, the final test for an initiate to sort of cross over and become this new enlightened character.

So they're always using this Saturnian current, this magical current.

And one way you can employ this Saturnian magical current is through blood sacrifice.

And so that's why in the Cult of the Black Cube, in these various cultures that worship Saturn, they would do human sacrifice.

Some people in the book, it's like, hey, because the book is very sympathetic to it, it tells you how to be a worshiper of Saturn.

And it says you can, you can blood sacrifice animals.

It, it offers different, different ways of like, bloodletting and stuff, like if you're not trying to kill animals and things like this.

But the, the existing Saturnian cults, they still do sacrifices.

Now, are they human sacrifices?

I believe it.

You know, these are, these are, you know, people that really believe this stuff.

So they think that the highest power comes from that.

And this goes back through like the Aztecs, you know, they would do the blood sacrifices at the top of Chichen Itza and, and this is a very gnostic thing.

They think that through the human sacrifice, if you do it violently enough, you can release the powers and the energy of the human spirit.

And they think that if you do it violently enough, it can escape this sort of gnostic prison planet and go back into the pleroma where the real God is and not this sort of fake God, the simulation world that we're stuck in.

I know, I know we're going really bizarre at the end here.

But the point is there's a, there's a cult of Saturn that this attorney and death cult that you could link into the whole Michael Jordan thing.

Yeah.

And not, not to mention, you know, Nike being the Greek God, goddess of victory, you know, is there some goddess cult connection?

Michael has a whole thing on female Illuminati.

And let me, let me put on your hat for a second and connect Aleister Crowley to this.

You know, just do it, Crowley.

You do what thou wilt, you know.

There you go.

Man, you guys are good at this.

Dude, you should, you should totally change up.

You're getting kicked off of YouTube anyway.

Yeah, yeah, we mix it up on this podcast of what we do, you know, that's great.

Well, listen, man, we want to honor your time.

I know you said 90 minutes.

You, you, you had to go.

Any final things you want to say?

You want to guide our listeners if they're interested in all this stuff, to read your books, to support you.

How can they do that?

Yeah.

So there's a few options.

Depends on what you're into.

If you like reading the old fashioned way, I've got nine books on Amazon and you can buy signed paperbacks@ultsymbolism.com or you can do the audible version.

I narrated almost all of them.

Or if you're not into books, I've got a podcast, Occult Symbolism and Pop Culture.

If you.

Oh, going back to the books.

If you want my first book for free, if you go to illuminatiwatcher.com and sign up for my email list.

If you go to the Start here tab or the free book tab, you'll see you can put in your email and I'll send you the PDF of my first book for free.

That's for like newbies who are brand new into this and it's really basic and.

But the, but the principles hold up after, you know, 14 years later.

But those are some options now.

And I've got a link tree allmylinks.com Isaac W. You can find jump offs to all of that Because I'm all over the place.

I'm on YouTube at a cult symbolism for my third attempt at building a channel.

But I'm kind of all over the place.

And unfortunately, in the business of what I talk about, you face constant cancellation and torching.

So I always just refer people to the link tree to find the latest place.

We'll have that link underneath in the show notes.

It's just the easiest instead of like posting 16 different links.

Yeah, it's a pain in the butt.

And my most popular social media is Instagram.

@ Isaac Wisehub, again, on the link tree, you can find that.

But yeah, that.

That's great, man.

I appreciate you guys having me on here, dude, you guys are great.

Thank you.

We appreciate it.

For sure, bro.

If you're down, we'll have to do a number two and get into, like, the CIA hip hop connections.

I think that'll be an awesome topic to cover.

Definitely.

Yeah, definitely.

That's that hip hop thing.

Hip hop's my life.

So, yeah, I'm definitely into that.

Love it, bro.

Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you, everyone else, for listening and we'll see you next time.

Take care.