1 00:00:03,725 --> 00:00:06,805 Marvin: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly, 2 00:00:06,885 --> 00:00:10,245 Marvin: and we're back with another Casting Angles with Mack Brown. How are you, Mack? 3 00:00:11,505 --> 00:00:13,185 Mac: I'm doing great. How are you doing, Marvin? 4 00:00:13,365 --> 00:00:16,125 Marvin: As always, just trying to stay out of trouble. And, you know, 5 00:00:16,145 --> 00:00:17,605 Marvin: we were talking before we started recording. 6 00:00:17,705 --> 00:00:21,685 Marvin: We're recording this on the evening on Memorial Day. We want to wish all of 7 00:00:21,685 --> 00:00:26,745 Marvin: our veterans in active duty, military, a happy Memorial Day and thank them for 8 00:00:26,745 --> 00:00:27,765 Marvin: everything they do for us. 9 00:00:28,905 --> 00:00:34,785 Mac: That's right a lot of them gave it all and it's a great day to remember and 10 00:00:34,785 --> 00:00:36,505 Mac: honor those vets that served. 11 00:00:37,025 --> 00:00:40,545 Marvin: And I'll also just put out a public service announcement close to where I grew 12 00:00:40,545 --> 00:00:47,005 Marvin: up in Lynchburg but in Bedford Virginia on June 6th there's the National D-Day 13 00:00:47,005 --> 00:00:49,405 Marvin: Memorial and they're going to have a very very special, 14 00:00:51,205 --> 00:00:55,085 Marvin: multi-day ceremony to celebrate the 80th anniversary of the D-Day invasion, 15 00:00:57,145 --> 00:00:57,425 Marvin: Oh. 16 00:00:57,425 --> 00:00:58,865 Mac: That'd be good. Are you going to go up? 17 00:00:58,865 --> 00:01:02,025 Marvin: I very well may. I'm still trying to kind of work things out, 18 00:01:02,125 --> 00:01:03,005 Marvin: but it's an amazing thing. 19 00:01:03,125 --> 00:01:08,665 Marvin: And one of the reasons why they put the National D-Day Memorial there was because, 20 00:01:08,785 --> 00:01:11,705 Marvin: you know, back in the Second World War, you know, a lot of times you served 21 00:01:11,705 --> 00:01:13,465 Marvin: kind of with everybody from your hometown. town. 22 00:01:14,285 --> 00:01:20,745 Marvin: And apparently Bedford had the highest casualty rate of kind of any town in 23 00:01:20,745 --> 00:01:21,885 Marvin: the United States on D-Day. 24 00:01:22,005 --> 00:01:26,185 Marvin: So it's there. It's a phenomenal memorial. 25 00:01:26,605 --> 00:01:29,485 Marvin: And I think, you know, if folks make the effort to get up there, 26 00:01:29,705 --> 00:01:30,745 Marvin: they won't be disappointed. 27 00:01:32,325 --> 00:01:35,365 Mac: Well, that sounds like a good time. Maybe we'll go up there and stay at your 28 00:01:35,365 --> 00:01:38,245 Mac: mom's and eat lasagna and go to bed. 29 00:01:38,245 --> 00:01:42,325 Marvin: That yeah there you go and maybe get a little uh smallmouth bass fishing in 30 00:01:42,325 --> 00:01:46,425 Marvin: but uh speaking of uh smallmouth bass i know it's been uh you know in our neck 31 00:01:46,425 --> 00:01:49,425 Marvin: of the woods down here in the mid-atlantic we've been getting ripped with rain 32 00:01:49,425 --> 00:01:54,625 Marvin: um and uh you and i were talking before we started recording that uh unless 33 00:01:54,625 --> 00:01:57,965 Marvin: you like chocolate milk you probably need to stay off the dh and head up high right. 34 00:01:59,765 --> 00:02:04,025 Mac: Pretty much we've been getting hammered with thunderstorms like for weeks like 35 00:02:04,025 --> 00:02:08,105 Mac: every just just about every day and it's run chocolate out there. 36 00:02:08,145 --> 00:02:12,545 Mac: There's not a lot of floats and things going on. It's been pretty dirty for 37 00:02:12,545 --> 00:02:13,545 Mac: about two and a half weeks. 38 00:02:13,665 --> 00:02:18,585 Mac: So we've been going up on the wild streams more up high and that those are fishing really well. 39 00:02:19,645 --> 00:02:23,405 Marvin: Yeah. And I know you also had some good news because, uh, I saw your Instagram 40 00:02:23,405 --> 00:02:26,685 Marvin: feed that both the, uh, most important to you, right? 41 00:02:26,745 --> 00:02:29,665 Marvin: Cause your son's run on the boys team, but the boys and the girls track team 42 00:02:29,665 --> 00:02:31,965 Marvin: at Swain County high school won the state championship. 43 00:02:33,297 --> 00:02:37,077 Mac: That's right. Yeah, that was really neat. We've been going down there since 44 00:02:37,077 --> 00:02:40,557 Mac: Connor was in high school, and he graduates next week. 45 00:02:40,777 --> 00:02:44,737 Mac: And it's been a long learning process for all of them, 46 00:02:44,777 --> 00:02:50,357 Mac: and it was nice for those seniors that are going out to go out that way because 47 00:02:50,357 --> 00:02:55,837 Mac: that's the first time in Swain County history that the boys pulled that off. 48 00:02:55,897 --> 00:03:00,097 Mac: And the girls, I think that was the girls' 10th state title in a row. 49 00:03:00,677 --> 00:03:06,097 Mac: The girls really have a dynasty going here. right now, but I thought that it 50 00:03:06,097 --> 00:03:09,957 Mac: would lead us in maybe to just talking about goals because, you know, 51 00:03:09,977 --> 00:03:11,837 Mac: I was thinking about my son graduating. 52 00:03:11,877 --> 00:03:15,177 Mac: He started doing all this in third grade and he was serious about it. 53 00:03:15,797 --> 00:03:18,257 Mac: You know, real serious like through middle school and high school. 54 00:03:19,317 --> 00:03:23,857 Mac: Just talk about some basic kind of goals if people go up high to try out the, 55 00:03:23,857 --> 00:03:27,817 Mac: you know, the wild streams to have a purpose what they're doing there. 56 00:03:27,917 --> 00:03:31,597 Mac: You know, there's so much on social media showing these, you know, 57 00:03:31,617 --> 00:03:36,057 Mac: nice fish and And this and that all over the country, but it's like, 58 00:03:36,117 --> 00:03:40,397 Mac: I think the big process is to have a specific goal. 59 00:03:40,517 --> 00:03:45,917 Mac: Just from doing this for 40 years, I'd say a great goal for the listeners would 60 00:03:45,917 --> 00:03:49,357 Mac: be to go out and just pick a big dry soil you can see. 61 00:03:50,157 --> 00:03:53,317 Mac: You know, something like a golden stone. There's still a lot of golden stones 62 00:03:53,317 --> 00:03:57,597 Mac: out there. So a size 12 golden stone that you can see in fast water. 63 00:03:58,277 --> 00:04:03,437 Mac: And just work on drift for the whole day. and when we say we've got to make 64 00:04:03,437 --> 00:04:06,697 Mac: a goal with that I would say work on drift a lot of people go well that's a 65 00:04:06,697 --> 00:04:09,517 Mac: good drift and it's two or three feet and other people say well six feet, 66 00:04:10,257 --> 00:04:13,357 Mac: well if somebody really plays that game. 67 00:04:14,947 --> 00:04:18,807 Mac: Then it really shouldn't be a limit. You know, even with the multiple complex 68 00:04:18,807 --> 00:04:23,067 Mac: currents, they ought to be able to pull out 20, 30 feet and make it go from 69 00:04:23,067 --> 00:04:25,927 Mac: 30 feet above to 30 feet below. Now we're talking 60 feet. 70 00:04:26,507 --> 00:04:29,507 Mac: So that's all line control, what we do after it's on the water. 71 00:04:30,187 --> 00:04:35,587 Mac: As much as we teach and talk about casting, Marvin, I think that the drift exercise 72 00:04:35,587 --> 00:04:40,607 Mac: is just a wonderful drill for line control of what we do to enhance it. 73 00:04:41,507 --> 00:04:44,527 Marvin: Yeah, and it's interesting, right, Because you kind of start with where you 74 00:04:44,527 --> 00:04:47,707 Marvin: put your body to get the best cast possible. 75 00:04:47,807 --> 00:04:50,547 Marvin: But what we're really talking about, depending on conditions, 76 00:04:50,687 --> 00:04:53,167 Marvin: is probably some type of a reach cast. 77 00:04:53,407 --> 00:04:56,507 Marvin: And then you're managing your line until it comes to you and gets below you. 78 00:04:56,567 --> 00:05:00,967 Marvin: And then you're going to probably start stack mending below you to keep the drift. 79 00:05:01,687 --> 00:05:06,147 Mac: And there's going to be stack mends. Like if we do the example I just said and 80 00:05:06,147 --> 00:05:07,747 Mac: go 60, that's one of the main drills. 81 00:05:07,947 --> 00:05:12,947 Mac: I can remember years ago with the youth kids when they were winning all the gold in Europe. 82 00:05:13,087 --> 00:05:16,727 Mac: Every one of those kids that was on that would work with them individually up 83 00:05:16,727 --> 00:05:20,427 Mac: in the park and that was the goal i mean i just tell them look we're going to 84 00:05:20,427 --> 00:05:24,947 Mac: go from here to there let them try it first let them fail show them how to do 85 00:05:24,947 --> 00:05:28,067 Mac: it then they'd copy it and that was so, 86 00:05:28,987 --> 00:05:35,827 Mac: important for pulling off those kind of drifts and so a lot of hump men's um you know a hump man, 87 00:05:36,487 --> 00:05:39,327 Mac: is different it's like going up up up so when we're paying line 88 00:05:39,327 --> 00:05:42,927 Mac: out below us but yeah there'll be stacks it's just 89 00:05:42,927 --> 00:05:46,667 Mac: here's the thing to go like on a gradient 90 00:05:46,667 --> 00:05:50,867 Mac: rich stream like the smoky size you're going to be doing something with the 91 00:05:50,867 --> 00:05:55,447 Mac: rod the entire time it's never sitting out it's either being humped in or getting 92 00:05:55,447 --> 00:06:00,627 Mac: ready to stack it out or something and that's that's what i've you know that 93 00:06:00,627 --> 00:06:03,947 Mac: i've seen a lot over the years guiding that um. 94 00:06:05,099 --> 00:06:08,819 Mac: Makes you want to go fish more than God, you know? Yeah. People don't see that 95 00:06:08,819 --> 00:06:11,899 Mac: naturally. And so I'm saying it's a drill for people to improve. 96 00:06:12,679 --> 00:06:18,359 Mac: Yeah, make the goal big, not just five, six feet. Make it big goal. 97 00:06:19,159 --> 00:06:23,859 Mac: And you'll find that the more they exercise that drift game and, 98 00:06:23,879 --> 00:06:28,279 Mac: you know, put the fish second, put drift as their priority, the fish will start following. 99 00:06:28,559 --> 00:06:31,879 Mac: They're going to catch way more numbers of fish than they've ever dreamed of 100 00:06:31,879 --> 00:06:34,019 Mac: just by making drift their exercise. 101 00:06:35,099 --> 00:06:38,279 Marvin: Yeah. And then I guess we should also add that, you know, that's really talking 102 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,879 Marvin: about dead drift, but we also want to talk about learning to animate the fly 103 00:06:41,879 --> 00:06:42,979 Marvin: and manage your line, right? 104 00:06:44,239 --> 00:06:47,019 Mac: Oh, yeah. That's another one of the tricks. Like, is it going down? 105 00:06:47,599 --> 00:06:51,379 Mac: You get it like in a little pocket or something to animate it and make it, 106 00:06:51,399 --> 00:06:53,779 Mac: you can make it hop and skitter and dance. 107 00:06:53,779 --> 00:06:58,239 Mac: That's what Mark Cathy was famous for here, is the animation of the fly, 108 00:06:58,379 --> 00:07:01,239 Mac: you know, to make it look like it's alive. 109 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:06,919 Mac: And the best way to do that is in the evening, watch a don that's going down 110 00:07:06,919 --> 00:07:12,739 Mac: the river late in the day, and it gets to a rapid at the tail end of a pool, and watch what it does. 111 00:07:12,899 --> 00:07:15,539 Mac: When it sees the fast water coming up, it's got great eyesight, 112 00:07:15,779 --> 00:07:19,339 Mac: and you'll watch it start jumping and skittering, trying to get flight, 113 00:07:19,419 --> 00:07:23,359 Mac: trying to get flight while its wings are getting hardened. and it'll do everything 114 00:07:23,359 --> 00:07:26,559 Mac: in its power to not go down in the riffle. 115 00:07:26,859 --> 00:07:29,479 Mac: You know what I mean? To get flight. It'll do those little exercises. 116 00:07:29,719 --> 00:07:32,479 Mac: So when it gets to the tail, it'll try to get flight. 117 00:07:32,579 --> 00:07:37,639 Mac: It might come off the water six, eight inches and land four feet back up from 118 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:40,379 Mac: the tail of the pool and it drifts and it comes back up. 119 00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:46,739 Mac: You can learn to animate that and mimic that with the line control that we're talking about. 120 00:07:47,459 --> 00:07:51,399 Mac: You can do that with a dancing line mend than to make it come back up. 121 00:07:52,299 --> 00:07:58,219 Mac: And I mean, so it's the combination. But I think deadrifts, I think it's easier to animate. 122 00:07:59,419 --> 00:08:02,039 Mac: I don't know, I shouldn't say that. I guess everybody's different. 123 00:08:02,219 --> 00:08:03,159 Mac: I mean, it might be easier. 124 00:08:03,679 --> 00:08:08,879 Mac: I think deadrifts, though, you can mix them up, like practice deadrifts exercises, 125 00:08:09,299 --> 00:08:14,579 Mac: then practice animating exercises, then practice the combination together, you know, to do both. 126 00:08:15,799 --> 00:08:19,059 Marvin: Yeah, and then really to kind of step back out of it, what we're really talking 127 00:08:19,059 --> 00:08:22,199 Marvin: about is the stuff that we've talked about over and over and over again about, 128 00:08:22,239 --> 00:08:26,379 Marvin: you know, you know, striving for continuous improvement, being curious. 129 00:08:26,399 --> 00:08:29,199 Marvin: And, you know, the great thing is you don't have to eat the elephant all at 130 00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:33,479 Marvin: one time. You pick kind of one thing you want to work on on the water and go work on that. 131 00:08:33,619 --> 00:08:36,739 Marvin: And, you know, you just, you know, you get it sort of figured out and then you 132 00:08:36,739 --> 00:08:39,679 Marvin: kind of put that in your quiver and, you know, you pick another thing to work on. 133 00:08:39,719 --> 00:08:43,459 Marvin: You don't have to like, you know, become the greatest fly fisherman ever on 134 00:08:43,459 --> 00:08:46,039 Marvin: one outing. You know, you just kind of have to have a methodical approach. 135 00:08:46,119 --> 00:08:48,879 Marvin: I imagine it's a lot like the way your boys train for track. 136 00:08:50,372 --> 00:08:54,052 Mac: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, they got specific goals. And, yeah, I mean, 137 00:08:54,072 --> 00:08:58,552 Mac: looking at the schedule of what they did two months leading up to state, 138 00:08:58,672 --> 00:09:00,032 Mac: I mean, it's pretty intense. 139 00:09:00,492 --> 00:09:04,312 Mac: I went up there a lot to watch them. And what they do is they start resting 140 00:09:04,312 --> 00:09:07,592 Mac: you less and less. So you're doing like 400 repeats, 200 repeats. 141 00:09:08,432 --> 00:09:11,272 Mac: You know, normally early in the season, you might have a minute rest. 142 00:09:11,872 --> 00:09:15,412 Mac: They keep cutting that time down and cutting it down to where you got 15-second 143 00:09:15,412 --> 00:09:19,752 Mac: rest and you're still doing the same number. So it ends up being a lot higher 144 00:09:19,752 --> 00:09:22,212 Mac: intensity because there's not as much rest in between. 145 00:09:23,472 --> 00:09:27,792 Mac: But same thing in angling. I like that idea, what you said about don't try to 146 00:09:27,792 --> 00:09:31,032 Mac: eat the elephant all at once because that's really true. I mean, 147 00:09:31,072 --> 00:09:31,872 Mac: to be honest, it's impossible. 148 00:09:32,352 --> 00:09:36,692 Mac: Nobody could eat the elephant all at once in a day, not with the amount of things that are out there. 149 00:09:37,272 --> 00:09:40,392 Mac: There's just too many things to say. Somebody could do that in a day. 150 00:09:40,972 --> 00:09:46,432 Mac: So, so having, having small goals that are attainable and to keep working on 151 00:09:46,432 --> 00:09:52,052 Mac: those and keep building on those as far as like building blocks is really the best way to get it. 152 00:09:52,552 --> 00:09:55,452 Marvin: Yeah. And I would say, you know, you know, thinking about that, 153 00:09:55,472 --> 00:09:57,912 Marvin: I mean, there's so many things that actually have nothing to do with being on 154 00:09:57,912 --> 00:10:00,052 Marvin: the water, right? Like your knots, right? 155 00:10:00,492 --> 00:10:03,612 Marvin: Having your, you know, your gear arranged, right? And that's like, 156 00:10:03,632 --> 00:10:07,552 Marvin: I'm a huge proponent of, you know, you can change your gear configuration, 157 00:10:07,832 --> 00:10:09,812 Marvin: but don't change it every time you go out. 158 00:10:09,812 --> 00:10:12,712 Marvin: Because if you reach in a pocket, you want the same thing that was there last 159 00:10:12,712 --> 00:10:16,712 Marvin: time, unless you've made a conscious decision to move it somewhere else for a reason. 160 00:10:16,772 --> 00:10:20,532 Marvin: And those are the things, you know, over time that, you know, 161 00:10:20,552 --> 00:10:22,992 Marvin: you'll be able to get ready faster, you'll be able to re-rig faster, 162 00:10:23,172 --> 00:10:24,872 Marvin: and you'll just become more confident on the water. 163 00:10:26,152 --> 00:10:30,192 Mac: Mm-hmm. Yeah, they can do, I mean, knots are a great thing to do at home. 164 00:10:31,752 --> 00:10:35,652 Mac: That's the best place to get fast at those, get fast at those at home. 165 00:10:35,772 --> 00:10:38,252 Mac: And the key is, is just have a couple of knots. You don't need, 166 00:10:38,372 --> 00:10:43,432 Mac: I mean, my gosh, fly fishing has so many different specialty knots, 167 00:10:43,692 --> 00:10:48,452 Mac: but the way to do it, like what we use in the school, is really just two knots. 168 00:10:48,672 --> 00:10:51,392 Mac: I mean, pretty much everything you ever want to do is two knots. 169 00:10:52,615 --> 00:10:56,555 Mac: And you don't need, I mean, that's a big part of what intimidates people about 170 00:10:56,555 --> 00:11:01,055 Mac: this sport is thinking about all the different knots and there's really not that many. 171 00:11:02,475 --> 00:11:07,795 Mac: You can make it really simplified as far as once you have your butt section, 172 00:11:07,875 --> 00:11:09,675 Mac: the leader on there, everything is two knots. 173 00:11:10,375 --> 00:11:15,215 Mac: Then get fast at them, get them down three seconds, three, four seconds or less. 174 00:11:15,215 --> 00:11:19,995 Mac: Yes, because I mean, I see far too many people in God and they get proud and 175 00:11:19,995 --> 00:11:21,015 Mac: want to tie their own rig. 176 00:11:21,235 --> 00:11:23,615 Mac: And I'm just like, let me tie it for you. No, I want to tie it. 177 00:11:24,455 --> 00:11:27,175 Mac: And you look at them tie it and it's like six, eight minutes later, 178 00:11:27,335 --> 00:11:29,355 Mac: you know, that's time wasted. 179 00:11:30,895 --> 00:11:35,015 Mac: Get them fast. Six, eight minutes is unacceptable. I'll just go ahead and say it. 180 00:11:35,555 --> 00:11:38,275 Marvin: But, you know, it's funny too, right? Because we've got, I don't know what we've 181 00:11:38,275 --> 00:11:41,935 Marvin: got, maybe, I don't know, two weeks of DH left in North Carolina. 182 00:11:42,115 --> 00:11:45,995 Marvin: So, you know, things are going to change. And so, you know, kind of building 183 00:11:45,995 --> 00:11:49,955 Marvin: on this education theme, Mac, I know you've got some topical schools throughout the summer. 184 00:11:50,015 --> 00:11:54,115 Marvin: You want to tell folks a little bit about those, kind of where they can get more information. 185 00:11:54,255 --> 00:11:56,855 Marvin: And also, I know you're taking people down the river. And if you're not, 186 00:11:56,915 --> 00:11:58,995 Marvin: you've got people that work with you that are. 187 00:12:00,595 --> 00:12:04,175 Mac: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we've still got like a wet fly. 188 00:12:05,035 --> 00:12:07,955 Mac: There's a dry fly school this weekend, a wet fly school coming up. 189 00:12:08,815 --> 00:12:14,555 Mac: We run those specialty schools like two days long ton of a short like the week 190 00:12:14,555 --> 00:12:17,795 Mac: long school we do compressed into two days just dedicated to the one, 191 00:12:18,835 --> 00:12:23,755 Mac: topic and that way you know people can look at those and if they want to work 192 00:12:23,755 --> 00:12:27,435 Mac: on you know their wet fly game and then we cover pretty much everything, 193 00:12:28,135 --> 00:12:32,235 Mac: that we do in the week long school on wet fly during that and that just gives 194 00:12:32,235 --> 00:12:34,255 Mac: them an opportunity and they can find that info on, 195 00:12:35,215 --> 00:12:39,775 Mac: either on social media stuff Go to the website, mackbrownflyfish.com. 196 00:12:40,675 --> 00:12:42,155 Mac: That's the easiest place to find it. 197 00:12:42,635 --> 00:12:45,495 Marvin: Yeah, but you're an email or a phone guy, right? 198 00:12:47,275 --> 00:12:51,935 Mac: Yeah, pretty much, or text. I like text. Texts work good, too, 199 00:12:52,015 --> 00:12:55,255 Mac: because I'm in and out of service a lot this time of year. 200 00:12:55,575 --> 00:12:58,575 Mac: When I go up high in the park, as soon as I go a mile from the house, 201 00:12:58,655 --> 00:13:00,955 Mac: there's no service up there, 202 00:13:01,095 --> 00:13:03,915 Mac: so I don't get the message until later on and leave a message, 203 00:13:03,975 --> 00:13:09,075 Mac: too, because these days I'm getting so many telemarketers too a day that it 204 00:13:09,075 --> 00:13:11,195 Mac: might be somebody looking for one of those schools, 205 00:13:11,355 --> 00:13:13,935 Mac: but if I don't leave a message, then I assume it's a telemarketer. 206 00:13:14,935 --> 00:13:19,915 Marvin: Yeah, there you go. And folks, I would say just remember, eat the elephant one 207 00:13:19,915 --> 00:13:23,135 Marvin: bite at a time and just pick one thing to work on and work on it until you get 208 00:13:23,135 --> 00:13:24,295 Marvin: it right and then add another thing. 209 00:13:24,595 --> 00:13:28,075 Marvin: And as I always say, you owe it to yourself to get out there and catch a few. 210 00:13:28,695 --> 00:13:30,835 Marvin: Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Mac. 211 00:13:31,995 --> 00:13:32,955 Mac: Tight lines, Marvin.