[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's Around the House. Dr. Decks, welcome to Around the House, brother.

[00:00:04] Dr Decks: But basically, what these heat blankets do is they're designed to repair carbon fiber on Boeing jets. Okay? So we took this technology and we had the company make us a specific size that we could take a deck board and put it in basically a silicone heating blanket sandwich that there's an outside layer of installation and then there's the heating blankets and then there's a deck board and we heat that board up for a certain amount of time at a certain temperature and it becomes pliable and then when we take it when it's still hot and we put it into a shape or a form that we create on the floor of our shop and then that becomes the new shape of that board.

[00:00:46] Eric Goranson: When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot to know, but we've got you covered! This is around the house. Welcome to the around the house show. This is where we talk everything about your home every single week. Thanks for joining us. [00:01:00] We have a special guest in the studio. I've been trying to get this guy on the radio and podcast now for a couple of years, and we finally done it.

[00:01:09] Eric Goranson: Dr. Decks, welcome to around the house, brother. Thanks for having me, Eric. This is great, man. Finally, you and I got to connect at that keen utility event. I know my listeners are like. Another person that you've talked to at Keen Utility, but yes, you and I finally got to sit down and connect a little bit. And that was a great time.

[00:01:27] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. I really enjoyed it. That was awesome. So let's talk a little bit about Decks, man. Cause you to me across the U S are the guru of doing. Beautiful, thought out composite decks out there, man. And there's nobody doing it like you. There's a lot of imitators in my book, but you're the master out there, man.

[00:01:48] Eric Goranson: And what got you into this?

[00:01:49] Dr Decks: You go to school, you go to high school and then you decide, okay, what are we doing here? And back in the eighties, in the late eighties, um, college was a thing, but it wasn't being pushed on [00:02:00] everyone. And I had a stepfather who thought maybe I'd be good in the trades.

[00:02:04] Dr Decks: And I started working for a management company that was responsible for several hundred apartment complexes. And they put me on a carpentry team and I was basically, pretty well built and a lot in better shape when I was younger and they're like, Hey, you can rip these decks out for us and then go from there.

[00:02:24] Dr Decks: And I had worked with my father. A little bit in the summertime learning some of the points of carpentry, but I really got my feet wet working with these people in the this apartment complex just going back and some of these decks should not have ever been even, Considered walked on, not even looked at.

[00:02:40] Dr Decks: They were so rotten. Like we, they would have them blocked off so people couldn't access them. And then I'm out standing on it, tearing it apart. And I swear, I almost killed myself a couple of times. Cause the decks as a deck is falling, I'm backing up into the breezeway. So I don't die, and that was my intro into construction. And then after a couple of years of that. [00:03:00] I was like 19, decided to move to Reno, Nevada, work for my father for a couple of years. He was a master carpenter down there and he was really into Redwood and alternate, just mostly wood. And then in 1991, I moved back to Washington state with my fiance, who is my wife now of over 28 years.

[00:03:19] Dr Decks: And we started Dr. Dax in 1991.

[00:03:23] Eric Goranson: And yeah, well done. Well done. And, it's interesting. It's so interesting how over the years, a deck is a deck, but it's not. How from 1991 to now, how technology has changed and how you built a deck then versus now,

[00:03:40] Dr Decks: Who, who would have thought that outdoor living was going to become such a powerful tool for people to have and.

[00:03:47] Dr Decks: I'm going to jump forward quite a bit here and say, COVID was my enemy and my friend as people, as the beginning of COVID happened and everything was shutting down, so did my contracts and my agreements with people. I lost, [00:04:00] 750, 000 worth of work and was stressing out. But then as COVID went on, people Realize, Hey, we're staying in this house.

[00:04:09] Dr Decks: I'm in this house for 26 hours a day and I need a place I can get outside and do whatever I want to do outside, I felt bad for these, some of these people. And so the creativity That is, has come forth through the years. We, I used to bang out wood decks.

[00:04:26] Dr Decks: That's why I got my start treated, pressure treated. And cedar is King where I live in the Pacific Northwest and Tacoma, Washington. I would do a tight knot cedar, and I was just blanging it down with an air gun, nailing, face nailing it with stainless steel ring shanks or whatever.

[00:04:41] Dr Decks: And then as synthetic decking came about, I was like, Whoa, what's this? Anytime you're in an early adopter of anything, you're going to have issues with that first,

[00:04:50] Eric Goranson: That first track stuff. Exactly. No problem with tracks, but man, that first stuff compared to where it is now was a world of difference backwards.

[00:04:58] Eric Goranson: That stuff didn't hold [00:05:00] up well.

[00:05:00] Dr Decks: Yeah, exactly. It was just ridiculous. So, as technology advanced and then we started, we're introduced to PVC. And right when PVC, a product called AZEC now it used to be called ProCell back then, and it might've been called something else before that, I might, I don't know everything about building decks I just take a different stance or an approach to how I build.

[00:05:23] Dr Decks: And I have a specific style that I've developed over the last 32 years. And I think a lot of people like the way I do a build, but there's other companies that do just as, a lot of amazing work and they add their flair to it as well. And I've steered away from certain things, but then I've also adapted into and adopted some really amazing technology.

[00:05:44] Dr Decks: To create some really artistic and unique living environments. And I've exploited the heck out of that just to make my point, to get a name

[00:05:53] Eric Goranson: and what you've done with curves and half circles and [00:06:00] inlays is what blew the industry up.

[00:06:02] Dr Decks: Yeah. Automation, which kind of took a break from, because we actually filmed a pilot television show around deck automation.

[00:06:10] Dr Decks: Yeah. And what deck automation is when you take electronics and you actually make parts of decks move. And I was like the only guy doing that to my knowledge. I was making hatches and panels and then I was like, Oh, let's make a barbecue appear with a remote control, and let's let's make a set of tables and benches pop up out of the deck.

[00:06:28] Dr Decks: And I was doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And we got. We aired on nationally on the DIY network. We we aired twice in the same night. We did not get a series for, I got as close to getting my own television show as you can get without getting one. Basically.

[00:06:42] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And I caught it. I saw it. So it was good.

[00:06:46] Eric Goranson: I liked it. I was,

[00:06:48] Dr Decks: Hey, I thought it was pretty good too. I left everything on the table at that point in time. Everything I could. I was working from dark to dark seven days a week giving away My time, my blood, my sweat, my [00:07:00] tears, all of it for the opportunity to possibly get that big break and it didn't happen and that was unfortunate.

[00:07:08] Dr Decks: It took me about a year to get over that. But in the meanwhile, I think

[00:07:12] Eric Goranson: that was a blessing in disguise, brother. Let me tell you what, let me tell you what, because, and I'll say this from knowing so many friends out there that came in that way, into the home it, your time that you did it. If you would have done that seven or eight years before, you could have been making really good money at it on HDTV DIY network.

[00:07:32] Eric Goranson: But the stuff now that's 500 bucks a week. And

[00:07:35] Dr Decks: yeah per talent. If you're the talent, you make 500. Here's the deal. If you get three years out of a series, if you get bought three for three years, then is when you start to actually make money. But how many of these shows do you actually see make it three years?

[00:07:50] Dr Decks: Most don't. When I did this show, it was 2016 and flip shows were the thing, the hottest thing. There was 30. Shows vying [00:08:00] for two slots on the on Scripps network, on the DIY network. Which Scripps owns HDTV, DIY food, channel travel time.

[00:08:10] Eric Goranson: Yeah. That's who owned

[00:08:11] Dr Decks: it. Okay. And they chose to flip shows.

[00:08:13] Dr Decks: I should have called my show deck flip and I probably would have had a better chance of getting bought. I

[00:08:20] Eric Goranson: totally agree. But at the same time, man, that would have been really good for you, but I think it would have also been such a boat anchor for you as well. That would have held you back because you wouldn't be doing all that stuff you're doing now.

[00:08:31] Dr Decks: Yeah, man, after that, I delved really into, I've always been into deckboard bending and that's probably my, still my passion. I love doing it. I don't do it every weekend. Like I'm not that dedicated to it, but I've done thousands and thousands of feet. I've burned up 100, 000 worth of products over the last 20 years mastering my craft.

[00:08:52] Dr Decks: And I have some really great art that I want to put out to the internet. And now that I have an audience I'm going to [00:09:00] do that. It's just a matter of when, I don't know when, cause I'm just trying to keep my business afloat and keep things going right now, and that can be a total time suck in itself.

[00:09:11] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Let's talk about that board bending for a little bit for people in the audience out there that are going, what is Dr. Decks talking about right now? Let's describe that a little bit so they understand what that is.

[00:09:21] Dr Decks: Sure. I'm known for that nationally and actually around the world because of my social media footprint.

[00:09:28] Dr Decks: But what deckboard bending is we take silicone heating blankets designed by a company called Heatcon in Seattle. Now, Heatcon makes 25, 000 hot bonders for Boeing airplane jets. They repair carbon fiber on Lamborghini cockpits on their cars. Some of the team goes over to Italy and they do some testing on some of the newer cars that, that Lamborghini is making.

[00:09:50] Dr Decks: But basically what these heat blankets do is they're designed to repair carbon fiber on Boeing jets. So Yep. Okay. So we took this technology and we had the [00:10:00] company make us a specific size that we could take a deck board and put it in basically a silicone heating blanket sandwich that There's an outside layer of of installation, and then there's the heating blankets, and then there's a deck board, and we heat that board up for a certain amount of time at a certain temperature. And it becomes pliable. And then when we take it when it's still hot and we put it into a shape or a form that we create on the floor of our shop.

[00:10:28] Dr Decks: And then that becomes the new shape of that board. So basically we take a firm straight deck board. We heat it up and turn it into a spaghetti noodle, and then we turn it into the shape we want. And if we're good, we do it to perfection where it looks like it came from the factory that way. But oftentimes than not, there's always some kind of a small imperfection in the board because there's just too many what ifs and every color has to be heated to a different temperature.

[00:10:54] Dr Decks: Every, yeah every brand is different. We don't really do a lot of cap composites anymore. [00:11:00] PVC is where I'm at. That's my love. I love ASEC decking. I bleed ASEC, so that's the stuff I use and it's a great product to do what I do with.

[00:11:10] Eric Goranson: And for you, you get the luxury of being familiar with one brand.

[00:11:14] Eric Goranson: Exactly what it's going to do. You're not dealing with the six different brands that are out there and this company's house brand that maybe made it this way one year and makes it that way the next or whatever. Yeah,

[00:11:24] Dr Decks: I've pretty much touched them all. And I, I've backed off of some of that, some of these newer boards that are coming from China.

[00:11:30] Dr Decks: I haven't really messed with those. I'm sticking to us made products that I really enjoy working with. And Hey, okay. So 15 years ago when I was doing this and I was getting it on the cover of professional deck builder magazine. ASICs like, or it was TimberTech back then TimberTech and ASIC were actually separate companies and TimberTech had XLM, which was a PVC.

[00:11:53] Dr Decks: And they're looking at me and they're like, Nope. So we're not endorsing this. I said, we love you, but here's the [00:12:00] deal. It's not, you were worried about Jason. It's the 10 other people or 20 other people that are going to try to do this. Now there's hundreds, if not thousands. But back then we're worried about these other guys that are going to come in.

[00:12:13] Dr Decks: And they're not going to frame the deck they're not going to do this properly. They're not going to do it the way you do it. And then we're going to have warranty issues. And I said, I don't give a crap about your warranty.

[00:12:23] Eric Goranson: I said,

[00:12:23] Dr Decks: not a problem. My, all my clients understand that we're totally voiding the warranty.

[00:12:28] Dr Decks: They love a rebel. They love the fact that I'm exploiting it and that I'm destroying something that, that could potentially save, somebody, something in the future. But I understand that I'm exploiting the warranty and that's okay. Because what we're creating is so much cooler than what we started with,

[00:12:45] Eric Goranson: absolutely. Absolutely. And that's cool. I remember the first time seeing your stuff. I was like, all right, this cat's got something different going here. And I thought it was stunning just with the stuff you do with that and the railings and everything else. And one of the things that I [00:13:00] really appreciated out of it is.

[00:13:02] Eric Goranson: That's the pretty stuff, but man, when it comes down to the framing of that deck and the protecting of that framing, dude, you are as brutal as anybody on doing that. And I love that. And I think it's worth talking about for a bit.

[00:13:14] Dr Decks: We both live in the Pacific Northwest and you get just as much, if not more rain than we do.

[00:13:21] Dr Decks: And. I've torn out hundreds of decks. Yeah. So I got some guy in the East that's commenting on my posts and saying, Why are you using so much waterproof membrane tape on your framing? You're just working for G Tape and you're just trying to sell more product. And I'm like, Hey man, You're entitled to the way you feel, but if you see, why don't you just go back and look at some of the demo videos I've done and look at the crumbling in my hands when I grab something that's 20 years old or younger and it crumbles in my hand, right?

[00:13:51] Dr Decks: So I put on

[00:13:52] Eric Goranson: a deck surface that you could get technically 30 years out of it and have framing down there that might last 15 or

[00:13:59] Dr Decks: 18. Yeah. [00:14:00] Yeah. So anytime I started doing, I, okay. So I started using back before G tape was a thing, there's this stuff called Vicor. Would say as early as 2000, I started taking Vicor and cutting it into strips and putting it on top of flat blocking to protect it from getting moisture and I'm not saying I started any kind of a trend or anything, but I was the first one in the United States to ever touch G tape.

[00:14:25] Dr Decks: I knew the guy, I knew the guy at the distributor. We actually got G tape on our TV show. And I guess the people in Japan were going berserk because they thought that was the coolest thing, that their product, and this is like 2016. They didn't, that's when G tape came out to the States. It'd been out in Japan for many years.

[00:14:41] Dr Decks: Cause they use it in the automotive industry and all these other places, but it's actually owned by Mitsubishi. And It's funny how you can make a footprint And not even realize what you're doing with it until somebody says, yeah, these guys in Japan are really digging what you're doing with their product.

[00:14:55] Dr Decks: It's I was just trying to protect some framing.

[00:14:57] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:14:57] Eric Goranson: You're just doing what you got to do to get this [00:15:00] client that paid you good money to do the project. You're like, I'm going to do all I can to protect their investment on this.

[00:15:05] Dr Decks: So I think it's a worthwhile investment, at least the joist tops, I protect the beam tops and everything else.

[00:15:10] Dr Decks: It's anything that water is going to sit on. And faster, or if pine needles and we have a lot of that kind of stuff here. So that stuff's the worst it is. And it's stuck in between the deck boards and that's the first place you're framing rods.

[00:15:22] Eric Goranson: I still have to go through my deck with, I have a really cheap battery powered plug in power washer, which is great for cleaning that stuff out.

[00:15:30] Eric Goranson: I want to hurt the deck, so it's not that good, but it's perfect. Cause three times a year on my back deck, I'm out there knocking that stuff down. Cause it just, it packs up in between every one of the deck boards.

[00:15:41] Dr Decks: Yeah, all the time. And they even make tools called the deck flosser. And there's all kinds of people that have come up with ideas to do that.

[00:15:49] Dr Decks: But I think your idea is probably the best is a light pressure washing to clear the gunk out. It's a great idea.

[00:15:54] Eric Goranson: That's all I do. And I, that's all that thing ever does is just cleaning off the deck with that, just to keep it good. Cause [00:16:00] yeah, you're right. And that stuff gets packed down in there in the Northwest.

[00:16:03] Eric Goranson: And if you've got that pressure treated wood, even. Ground contact wood, that stuff just loves to tear that up.

[00:16:09] Dr Decks: Yeah. It'll still rot, man. If it's in the wrong environment, does not matter. I don't care what people say, how long it's going to last. It's you gotta protect it.

[00:16:17] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:16:19] Eric Goranson: And you have been doing recently and I see more and more of it. And I don't know if it's just that I'm catching up more and more on your channel, but man, you're two and almost three story decks that you've got going out there are pretty spectacular.

[00:16:32] Dr Decks: Thank you. Yeah, I've been building a lot of squares and rectangles lately, and I don't, personally I love doing curves, but I pitch it to everybody.

[00:16:40] Dr Decks: But there's a lot of conservative clientele that really, that's beautiful. They think I'm going to really ding them for it or something. So they just stay, we'll keep a rectangle. If I'm going to build a rectangle, I'm going to build a really nice one, and those double deckers are really cool because what we're doing is we're waterproofing the upper deck with a waterproof membrane.

[00:16:58] Dr Decks: And or I actually have [00:17:00] a masterclass on it of waterproof bladders, and so we put a waterproof bladder on the upper deck and then we soft at the underside. So it becomes like a really nice place to hang out three seasons, even four seasons. If you're out there, all those great things, right?

[00:17:14] Dr Decks: Absolutely. So, that's a cool feature and we're doing more and more of that. Instead of doing a patio cover, we're actually just building another deck. Above it and waterproofing it. And then they get that balcony. Now this last one we're doing is pretty big. It's like a 16 by 20 upper and it's free spanning.

[00:17:32] Dr Decks: So there's no posts in the middle of the deck or anything like that. Now it's really nice. And the people are really, the client is very happy right now. So we're just, trying to get that one buttoned up here. So are you,

[00:17:43] Eric Goranson: so you're using that bladder system where basically you're putting that sheet rubber.

[00:17:47] Eric Goranson: Over the top of, I'm going to oversimplify this, but just so people can get an idea is taking that sheet flexible rubber sheet and drooping it down in between those deck boards to create a trough. So when the water [00:18:00] comes through the deck that you can take it over towards a gutter system.

[00:18:03] Dr Decks: You direct it away.

[00:18:04] Dr Decks: You cut the, you cut EPDM pond liner into wedges and then it's tight at the house and it has more taper towards the outside of the deck. So when you install it, it gets, it gives it natural drainage. And you do that all within the joist bay. And then you overlap the layers and you put additional tape on to protect the screw head screws, excuse me, going in so that they don't leak.

[00:18:30] Dr Decks: The whole idea is that you're creating a completely, oh, and it also protects the joists in the framing.

[00:18:36] Eric Goranson: Yeah, it's perfect. It's like the perfect waterproofing over the top of that.

[00:18:39] Dr Decks: Yeah. So you're protecting your frame. And you're getting a nice dry space below that. And in this case, you're getting a dry space below that and on the ground.

[00:18:48] Eric Goranson: Yeah. I have that mud mess underneath the deck where it's come through and tore the dirt up down there. You can almost see where the deck boards are sometimes on houses in the Pacific Northwest where it drops down and it almost cuts [00:19:00] holes in the strips in the ground below

[00:19:02] Dr Decks: good graphic explaining that very well, Eric,

[00:19:04] Eric Goranson: it's just what it is.

[00:19:05] Eric Goranson: And it's funny. Okay.

[00:19:07] Dr Decks: You're right. I've seen, I see it all the time, man.

[00:19:09] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And so it's crazy. And what I like about this whole thing too, is. It doesn't, you got enough angle that when the rain and the water goes, it doesn't collect up so much of that. It's not like it's super flat. So any pine needles and stuff to get in there, it's just going to get washed out into that gutter system.

[00:19:26] Eric Goranson: Yeah,

[00:19:26] Dr Decks: I've actually Mike Gurdon. He I love Mike, by the way. He's a good guy. Don't follow him. Maybe search him out on Instagram. He he did one 20 years ago and a similar style that I do. And he tore the decking up because the decking was bad. I don't know if it's one of his rentals or something.

[00:19:42] Dr Decks: And there was hardly any sediment after 20 years. And so people, that's one of the things people always challenged me on is, Hey what, aren't things going to build up? So I've physically done videos of, I put crap down in the joist bay and then we've ran water in it and it floods it out. Yeah. People still have an [00:20:00] issue with it for some reason.

[00:20:00] Dr Decks: It's funny. But I've never had a call back. Yeah. I've never had a waterproof bladder.

[00:20:06] Eric Goranson: No. And my curtain, by the way, if you guys aren't following him out there, he's the old godfather of decking out there as far as the, how you connect it. He's been doing this for decades, but he's the guy that

[00:20:17] Dr Decks: years.

[00:20:18] Eric Goranson: Yeah, literally. And Mike, I know you're probably going to listen to this, so you could laugh at us, but I used to work with him on stage in the high performance building zone down at the kitchen of bash shows. So him and I used to share a stage sometimes. And so he's just such a master at that. And you catch him on fine home building and that kind of stuff.

[00:20:34] Eric Goranson: So

[00:20:35] Dr Decks: yeah, that's awesome. I've seen him at several trade shows and I've never, I feel guilty cause I've never taken the time to. I'm usually working the show too. So it's not like I get to have a minute where I can go sit down in the audience and just listen to what he has to say, because I'm sure he would teach me.

[00:20:50] Dr Decks: As a matter of fact, I have him on speed dial because I often consult him when I come up against something that I'm not a hundred on, because it happens to all of us, right? I'm a professional deck builder. That's what I do for [00:21:00] a living. I've done it for a long time, but to have a vote of confidence from somebody that you could really trust.

[00:21:06] Dr Decks: He always picks up my phone calls too. Yeah. Usually I don't ever go to voicemail with him.

[00:21:12] Eric Goranson: He's just a good guy that way. And that's but that's what I love about this industry of the experts that we have out there is that and I've talked this with other people here is that the good people get along, right?

[00:21:23] Eric Goranson: And everybody's there to help each other. Cause we all have questions at some point. Yeah. Yeah. All of us. Oh, if you don't, then you might be getting cocky and putting yourself in a position where you should be asking questions,

[00:21:34] Dr Decks: some of these younger builders. I'm looking at some of the stuff they're putting out and I'm just like, man, they're putting screen rooms and all kinds of accessories and really lighting it up.

[00:21:43] Dr Decks: And. They're staging it perfectly. I'm like, man, I never took the time to stage anything hardly. And like when it comes to competition, like we enter our decks into a national deck building competition and I'm looking at the competition this year, I'm like, man, I don't even know if I'm going to enter anything.

[00:21:57] Dr Decks: Cause I don't think I have anything worthy of [00:22:00] placing except the one I'm building right now. If I finish that in time, I'll probably enter that. But I don't know if it'll even place because there's just so many similar type builds that are just money, I'm just impressed.

[00:22:12] Eric Goranson: And that's good. I like it when, somebody like you, that's gone out there and it's been a trailblazer and it's risen the water and bringing all the boats up too, because there's other guys out there that are going, all right, I see how he's doing it.

[00:22:23] Eric Goranson: I better do my stuff better and there's nothing wrong with it. We're

[00:22:26] Dr Decks: elevating, we're elevating the game. That's for sure. I don't, and I'm not saying that out of conceit. No I'm saying it because I get DMS every day. With guys telling me that and I'm glad that I've talked to beginners I talked to attorneys and lawyers.

[00:22:42] Dr Decks: I talked to pizza makers And I talked to carpenters, there's a ton of people that follow and that are constantly Asking me for information. Nice. It's overwhelming.

[00:22:54] Eric Goranson: Oh, I bet. So what are you doing for deck fasteners these days? I've holding the, holding that ASEC down.

[00:22:59] Dr Decks: Yeah. We're [00:23:00] doing one of two things usually we're either face screwing and cortexing it with a stainless steel top lock screw, which is now available to everybody, by the way or we're using the fast and master fusion lock gun, which is more of a professional made from.

[00:23:16] Dr Decks: Professional deck builders it's a little quirky. Some guys don't like it because, a clip might slip here and there, but when you use it every day or every week, you get used to those things and you get through it, but those are usually the only two I've used other clips before.

[00:23:33] Dr Decks: I'm not going to mention any brands, but I've actually had some issues with the screw snapping and I've had to go back and then I had to cortex a bunch of decks anyways. Yeah, because the ends all snapped on these because PVC moves, man, it's going to move, it gets hot, it gets cold, it grows, it shrinks.

[00:23:50] Dr Decks: And when it does that, if, and I used an impact driver to drive these screws down and I wasn't supposed to. But I'm like, Hey man, we're going to produce two, and [00:24:00] after I talked to these guys, I had six decks do it. And I'm like I'm just done with these. I'm sorry. I can't use these.

[00:24:05] Eric Goranson: So some of those screws are so thin.

[00:24:08] Eric Goranson: They're just, they're just, yeah. They're thinner than what your iPhone charging cord is. You know what I mean? They're just these little tiny things. And even when they're stainless, they're still, there's not that much meat there, especially when you put a lot of torque on it, putting it in.

[00:24:21] Dr Decks: Yeah. Those top lock screws though, that's the absolute best way to fasten down a deck. Even with the Cortex, with the AZEC vintage product You can barely see the quirks, but if you look hard enough, you can see them. It depends how particular your clients are.

[00:24:35] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And yeah there's, yeah, that's the thing.

[00:24:37] Eric Goranson: The client, depending on how they are, they can go out there and get on their hands and knees with blue tape if they want to, but yeah, there's always that guy, but you really, it's a deck and that's so much better. Think about where it used to be with ring shank and cedar.

[00:24:50] Eric Goranson: You didn't care,

[00:24:51] Dr Decks: right? Yeah. If you chalked your lines off, you're lucky. There was a I swear I was on, I was with a friend and he was a deck [00:25:00] builder and he subbed everything out and he didn't do any of the work himself. I don't do that. I actually am on every job every day with my team building.

[00:25:07] Dr Decks: And he had this guy that was just air nailing off this deck and he was trying to do it as fast as he could and he was missing the joists. He was missing. He was hitting the cracks. With the nail gun and splintering the sides of the decking. And he wasn't even on the joists. And I looked at this guy and I looked at the owner.

[00:25:28] Dr Decks: I'm like, dude, you better stop him. He fired him on the spot. Where did you find this guy, man? Like he, he like he was on something. Cause he was going way, way too fast. And it's unfortunate that people like that. Give us a bad name in the industry. And I'm trying to change that, man. I want to put out when everything I touch, I want people to look at it and go, dang, that is, that's nice.

[00:25:55] Dr Decks: That's better than average. That's above average. That's your stuff

[00:25:59] Eric Goranson: is stunning. And [00:26:00] I'm not just saying that cause you're sitting here on the show. If for me to refer back to what you're doing on this deck stuff, man, it is just, it's amazing. It's just, it's beautiful stuff. And you can tell the care that's been put into it.

[00:26:13] Dr Decks: Yeah, every project that I build, it's like it's mine until I'm done with it, absolutely. Guys get tired of me complaining to them all the time. It's man, I'm not in first grade, bro. But yeah, but if I don't remind you not to do that, you're gonna, I just sat there and watch you do it.

[00:26:27] Dr Decks: Exactly. So somebody's got to be responsible for it,

[00:26:30] Eric Goranson: Your name's on the your name's on the warranty at the end, brother. So that's the thing. There you go.

[00:26:33] Dr Decks: And I can't tell you, even the little stuff, I have to go back and in the evenings and weekends and fix because none of my guys are going to get up at, six in the morning on a Saturday and go do it.

[00:26:43] Dr Decks: Nope. So it's up to me, but it is my name and it is my business. So I'll put my, I'll put it behind it, man.

[00:26:50] Eric Goranson: No question. That's why you only get one reputation out there and that's why you've been owning it, man.

[00:26:55] Dr Decks: Thank you.

[00:26:55] Eric Goranson: I wanted to talk a little bit about helical piles a little bit, because those [00:27:00] are something that I think is really important depending on the land and the grade and all that other stuff, but it's not something I'm seeing.

[00:27:05] Eric Goranson: A lot of deck builders deal with, but. I've dealt with them a lot. I know you, you deal with them a fair amount now, especially in situations where you've got bad soil conditions or on a hill or something like that. Let's talk about those in deck building a little bit, because I think it's something that at least homeowners and contractors should be knowing about out there.

[00:27:23] Dr Decks: I started looking at helical piles as a viable solution to foundation or to footings when the state of Washington mandated a 60 pound per square foot live load instead of a 40 pound per square foot live load. What that did is it almost tripled the amount of concrete we had to pour just by adding that extra 20 pounds per square foot.

[00:27:43] Dr Decks: Thinking they were going to solve all these problems because of all the weekend warriors that are going out and building decks that are collapsing and killing people. We made it harder. They made it more difficult for the professional to earn a living. It just costs us another 50 percent to do our footings.

[00:27:56] Dr Decks: And when I was realizing, Hey man, I am pouring. [00:28:00] Yards of concrete and I'm not used to I don't short load a truck for three yards of concrete We hand mix that.

[00:28:08] Eric Goranson: Yeah,

[00:28:09] Dr Decks: so i'm bringing pallets of concrete to the job site and we're hand mixing pallets of concrete I was like, there's got to be a better solution than this So I reached out to you,

[00:28:18] Eric Goranson: though, ironically, the state of Washington didn't figure out and being a, I'm a former Washingtonian, so I dealt with this for 25 years.

[00:28:25] Eric Goranson: They didn't figure out that maybe that connection from the deck to the house is the number one failure point versus footings, but heck, they're going to, they're going to deal with footings. Cause that's easier for them.

[00:28:34] Dr Decks: Yeah, it just, it, and that actually made the deck, it made us use bigger beams, bigger posts, bigger joists, tighter spans.

[00:28:45] Eric Goranson: You

[00:28:45] Dr Decks: know, it's ugly. So get this, I got something for you. I was the engineer, we spec'd up pressure treated glue lambs on the build I'm working on right now. They're beautiful. I'm used to paying 30 a foot for them. Hadn't bought them in a while. Pressure [00:29:00] treated 6x12 is about 15 a foot. Yep. Okay?

[00:29:03] Dr Decks: No problem. Double cost. I'm good with that. Yeah. 65 a foot. I got dinged for 7, 500 for the beams on that deck. The beam! I almost puked. I'm like, I called her, I said, is this correct? She goes, yeah, those haven't gone down at all in price. I'm how proud are these people of this product? Cause Holy smoke.

[00:29:23] Eric Goranson: You could have had custom steel made for a lot less than that.

[00:29:25] Dr Decks: I wonder,

[00:29:27] Eric Goranson: You get into wonder. Yeah.

[00:29:28] Dr Decks: So, so I decided I got ahold of this guy, max with a mass core helical piles out of Ontario, Canada, and he has a great shipping connection. So he said, Hey man, buy the power head.

[00:29:39] Dr Decks: I'll send you some piles. He trained me over the phone because of COVID. He couldn't come across the border.

[00:29:45] Eric Goranson: And I

[00:29:46] Dr Decks: started setting my own piles, but what I'm running into now is I have a problem when I'm driving the piles I'm, depending on the jurisdiction, some of them requiring a third party witness to, to inspect my pressure.

[00:29:59] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Cause they need to see [00:30:00] what that pressure load is to that way. The depth

[00:30:02] Dr Decks: I'm in I'm actually recording all that as we, every pile, I'm taking photographs of the pressure. I have a time lapse camera going the whole time. So I sent all that stuff to my engineer cause he's old and he's, sick and he couldn't make it for two days.

[00:30:17] Dr Decks: Cause it took us two days to drive the piles on that job. Cause we had the overhang of the roof that we had to deal with while we were trying to, Dig the pile. So we had to suspend temporarily suspend the roof. Those are the things people don't get. Like you want to sleep at night, then don't do some of the stuff I do because it'll keep you up.

[00:30:34] Eric Goranson: No kidding.

[00:30:34] Dr Decks: And we both agreed that it was ridiculous that they were calling out, but then the inspect, the building inspector comes out and he's yeah, where's your engineer report? I go it's at the engineer. And he's it's not here. And was he present for this? And I'm like no.

[00:30:46] Dr Decks: He wasn't and he goes you're supposed to be here. I don't know how I'm going to prove this deck. I was like I'll get you the engineering. I'll get you the paperwork. I'll give you the forms. He goes, yeah. He goes, look. If I don't have something signed by somebody stating that they [00:31:00] approve these, then I can't pass this deck.

[00:31:02] Dr Decks: So, I'm like, okay I'll do my best to give you what you're looking for, but I don't know if it's gonna be enough. But I tell you what, I've done 10 of these, probably 15 decks with them now. And It saves me time money. You can build on them right away. As long as you hit the pressure you're looking for, you're not, nothing's going to settle.

[00:31:21] Dr Decks: Dude. And those are

[00:31:22] Eric Goranson: So much more durable compared to just a concrete footing, because those things are so tied into the ground compared to just putting a boatload of concrete there.

[00:31:31] Dr Decks: Yeah, agreed. We have a mini skid steer that we drive with it. And then we also have a Bobcat that we swap the power head to if I can get the big machine in, man, it really works well and that's what we used on this last job we're on, but the mini also, I had to actually upgrade my machine because the old machine I had, it flipped it.

[00:31:51] Dr Decks: Upside or sideways because I hit some really hard ground,

[00:31:55] Eric Goranson: too much torque, it knocked it over and then the

[00:31:57] Dr Decks: battery connection got hit, arced out [00:32:00] on the frame and then it started smoking. It was like,

[00:32:03] Eric Goranson: man, that was an expensive one.

[00:32:05] Dr Decks: And then the oil, it was blown it was awful. So at that point, I was like, okay, if I want to be serious about this, I got to get a bigger machine that'll drive the pile.

[00:32:12] Dr Decks: So we got ourselves a nice little ditch, which that really drives well, and I haven't had any problems since then with either machine or the power head. So it's been a, it's been a great investment for me. We've been using them for a couple of years now.

[00:32:26] Eric Goranson: Man, it's so great. And when you've got fill soil or anything else like that, or you're on the side of a hill where you're.

[00:32:32] Eric Goranson: Got this real, you do a lot of view homes. So, and a lot of these things are towards the edge of a cliff or a fall off or whatever else you want to call it or looking down and man I'd want my deck to have as many of those as possible in those situations. If

[00:32:45] Dr Decks: we can, if we can get a, if we can get the machine into the space, we definitely use them. If we can't, then we might go to an alternative maybe a diamond pier or something like that.

[00:32:56] Eric Goranson: And I think you did that diamond pier and those are just basically posts that [00:33:00] are driven in, and almost like a teepee into the ground.

[00:33:03] Eric Goranson: So you've got that laid out. Footing for that, but using metal posts, using

[00:33:08] Dr Decks: galvanized thick walled galvanized pipe to go through a footing, a precast footing to a specific depth, and I think they come up to five feet long, for some, and then once you load them is where they really start to take a shape and where they don't move so much.

[00:33:24] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. So what are you doing these days for railings, man? Cause I see you have some beautiful glowing, lit railings on a lot of your projects. What's that material you're using? Cause that's super cool.

[00:33:36] Dr Decks: Sure. So the company that I use mostly is called Regal Ideas and they make different varieties of different types of railing, they make a standard aluminum picket, aluminum with glass.

[00:33:48] Dr Decks: And then the kicker that they do is this product called crystal rail and crystal rail is a really beautiful, low iron glass and has these special pods. That [00:34:00] are shaped like an egg. A lot of people make fun of the shape, but they're designed that way for a reason so they can withstand the forces that need to be with withstood for code and you lay these things out and then you tighten up the glass to And then they have an led in the base and you light them up and it becomes this beautiful lit attraction at night.

[00:34:23] Dr Decks: I've never seen anything like it. I actually have it on my own house. Cause I liked it so much. It's beautiful. Every time I drive in at night, I'm like, man, that's sweet.

[00:34:30] Eric Goranson: That is awesome. That is awesome. Cause yeah, that's, it's, it makes that whole deck just glow. I love lighting cause as a designer myself.

[00:34:38] Eric Goranson: Lighting makes that whole project and that stuff. I saw that and I'm like, okay, that's a, that might have to go into my house one of these days because that's cool stuff. Yeah,

[00:34:46] Dr Decks: it's good stuff. And the company, I love the company cause they're really supportive. They back their product. They have a great warranty and it's really easy to install.

[00:34:54] Dr Decks: They have the homeowner and the do it yourself or in mind when, and everything they've designed that [00:35:00] they sell, sometimes it's hard to find depending on where you are geographically. So, you can always. Contact Regal Ideas directly and they'll get you in touch with somebody that can get you the product.

[00:35:10] Eric Goranson: So what are you using for tools out these days, man? I know you've got your favorites out there and I want to give you, make you give away all your trade secrets, but you know, you got some cool stuff I see you using out there.

[00:35:21] Dr Decks: Yeah. I think the stuff we use daily we use a DeWalt 12 inch compound slide miter saw flexible.

[00:35:27] Dr Decks: So it's a dual 12 amp hour batteries. Those usually last us a day, if not a little bit longer, that's mounted to a cut hub chops, a chop station. And on particularly right now, we're running two chop saws on it. So we have the big 12 inch saw, and then we also probably my favorite saw. It's this little seven and a quarter inch Metabo HPT.

[00:35:49] Dr Decks: Seven and a quarter, super accurate, really great for trim, cheap blades, even a 40 tooth blade is like 15 bucks, that's awesome. It cuts like a diamond, man. It's a, [00:36:00] it's an expensive saw, but we have both of those mounted to the cut hub. And then we have a separate cut hub station for our Dewalt table saw.

[00:36:08] Dr Decks: So we have a full set. We don't use a cordless table saw. We actually use a corded saw because of the stuff we rip, the wet treated lumbers batteries will only last maybe 40 feet.

[00:36:18] Eric Goranson: Yeah, no, that stuff doesn't work. I got a funny story about that. DeWalt saw though my buddy Skip Bedell, he got that thing.

[00:36:26] Eric Goranson: I was out cheese years ago. What? Seven years ago, I was out at his place helping him put his kitchen in. And that thing showed up in a white box. It hadn't even, it was the, one of the pre production ones. And so that showed up in this white box at his house and I helped him carry it in and unbox it and I'm like, okay, this is cool stuff.

[00:36:45] Eric Goranson: So that was the first time I'd seen that, that whole package of theirs with that. And man, I was impressive. I was impressed.

[00:36:51] Dr Decks: Yeah we always run that thing cordless too. It seems to run better cordless than it does it that there's a power adapter. You can plug it in, but man, we really like it running [00:37:00] cordless.

[00:37:00] Dr Decks: We run both of our saws cordless, our table saws corded. And then as far as impact drivers, we're mostly using Metabo HPT triple hammers. We really like those. And then as far as our finished guns we're running into Walt, Metabo, and then Paso just sent us a really cool cordless gun and I was shooting some YouTube videos with it today.

[00:37:20] Dr Decks: And I was shooting into some steel and I broke the driver on it. It sounds so stupid. I was trying to get the gun to jam. Remember we were talking about jamming guns? We shot that video today. For our YouTube channel. And then I'm like, Hey man, it's not resetting. What's going on? And I tore it apart.

[00:37:36] Dr Decks: I'm like, Oh man, oops.

[00:37:38] Eric Goranson: Oops. Yeah. I got a gun that I think is, I've done that too here that I haven't quite taken apart yet, but I think that's exactly what I did as well. So

[00:37:46] Dr Decks: I'm going to send it back. They told me, Hey, we've got two year warranty on it. Send it back and we'll send you a new one. I'm like, okay, I'll do a video on it.

[00:37:54] Dr Decks: That's what they want. And they want me to do a video about it. Then we're going to do a giveaway. So perfect because it's so light. It's [00:38:00] like a tinker toy compared to most other guns. It's so light, really? But it's a gas, it's gas powered. Gas and battery powered. Okay. It's a small battery and a gas.

[00:38:09] Dr Decks: The gas cartridge lasts like a thousand shots or 1500 shots or something like that. Oh, wow.

[00:38:13] Eric Goranson: That's cool because that's my biggest complaint about the, especially the framers, man, those are even worse. The framers are just sitting there. It's like you got 25 pounds off the hand of your hand. Oh, yeah.

[00:38:23] Dr Decks: Yeah. We have some cordless framers but when we Especially when we're framing in glue lambs We always run a pneumatic because you just get a better punch with the pneumatic If not, we'd have to go back and drive every single nail again With a cordless framer.

[00:38:37] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:38:38] Dr Decks: But

[00:38:38] Eric Goranson: that makes no sense. Yeah.

[00:38:40] Dr Decks: Not really. If the wood's really wet and it's all pressure treated then we can use the cordless guns on it.

[00:38:46] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Yeah. That stuff's so soft, especially with, in the Pacific Northwest here, we have that pressure treated wood. It's not like some of that Southern yellow pine you see everywhere else.

[00:38:56] Eric Goranson: This stuff here that. It is soaking wet when it shows up [00:39:00] in most cases and it's heavy, it's wet, and the saws hate it, but the guns love it, right?

[00:39:06] Dr Decks: Exactly. Yeah, you can always get good penetration on a nail gun with it. Absolutely.

[00:39:11] Eric Goranson: It's just like Bata, it's just like Bata. So what do you see going?

[00:39:14] Eric Goranson: What are some of the next things that you see out there with DAX and the future with these composites? Cause I know you, you talk to the manufacturers a lot out there. I'm so impressed where we've come over the last five or six years. My parents, when they built their house in the Tri Cities in Eastern Washington, they put in That Trex fencing product that came out and that was a mistake.

[00:39:38] Eric Goranson: That stuff uncapped, it was the original kind of oatmeal ish kind of composite and you put that on an 115 degree day and it looks like a Willy Wonka fence.

[00:39:50] Dr Decks: Yeah, it's unfortunate. There was a few different brands that tried to come out with fence boards, and I don't think any of them are still around.

[00:39:58] Dr Decks: Timbertex went [00:40:00] out Trax went out, there's a couple others, I don't even remember their names. I would actually take a few of those. I still have some stock, cause I cut it down and use it for thin shims when I'm building low decks to the ground. That makes sense. Oh, yeah. If you have all the different thicknesses, man, it makes it really easy to shim up a three eighths inch, a half inch, five sixteenths, whatever, whatever thickness these boards were.

[00:40:20] Dr Decks: So, I have a little hoard of it, in my boneyard that I always go to and we'll just hack it down into three and a half or five and a half inches of whatever we need, and it works really well. Cause we also buy composite shims. I used to use cedar shims, but they deteriorate. Yeah.

[00:40:34] Dr Decks: So it's plastic shims don't

[00:40:36] Eric Goranson: pretty quick.

[00:40:39] Dr Decks: Yeah, absolutely. I crawled under a deck once that I'd built like 10 years later and the plastic, the cedar shims had rotten and the post was hanging. I'm like there you go. That's why it's hanging. So, just throw some plastic ones under there and we're back in business.

[00:40:55] Eric Goranson: One thing I liked that we're starting to see out there too, is and I want to give a shout out to Simpson [00:41:00] strong tie. They've come out with some brackets and some stuff that are really starting to make sense as far as decorative and functional, because over the last 30 years, it's just been this galvanized stuff that ain't pretty, but they've really come out with some

[00:41:15] Dr Decks: outdoor accents.

[00:41:16] Dr Decks: It's a thing We're using more and more of it on our builds. And it is, it beautifies things and the clients really like it. I didn't tell these people they're getting a free upgrade on this last job, but we put that stuff all over the deck and man, it really enhances it. It makes it look nice.

[00:41:30] Dr Decks: And people seem to love it.

[00:41:31] Eric Goranson: I think for you guys too, if you're putting together some glue lambs and stuff, those big T brackets they have are solid and they look good. Like they're supposed to be there where before you were using these little tiny, you had the only thing you had were those little tiny Simpson galvanized brackets.

[00:41:47] Eric Goranson: And they just look like you were framing a house.

[00:41:49] Dr Decks: Yeah. That, or you're putting a massive 200 steel monsters on there. Which really that's more for commercial use and I've done it. I've done it both [00:42:00] ways depending on the budget of the deck, but I enjoy retrofitting these instead because you can actually get everything set together and pin it all together and then go back and put these brackets on and not only does it enhance it meets the code.

[00:42:12] Dr Decks: So

[00:42:12] Eric Goranson: see, that's the best of both worlds with that, which is awesome. So

[00:42:15] Dr Decks: I'm going to be promoting those at deck Expo. I think

[00:42:19] Eric Goranson: nice, nice. Yeah. That's, I remember when the few years ago they started to come out with and they dipped their toe in it a little bit. And then over the last number of years, they've just exploded that line.

[00:42:29] Dr Decks: I told him, Hey man, you should make your joist hangers this color too,

[00:42:32] Eric Goranson: right?

[00:42:33] Dr Decks: Heck yeah. I've actually painted them all black before, but that was a lot of work.

[00:42:37] Eric Goranson: That's a lot of

[00:42:38] Dr Decks: work. It is.

[00:42:39] Eric Goranson: That's a lot of work. What else are you doing out there, man? I'm noticing one thing that I noticed that you really pay attention to and I want to just give you a shout on this.

[00:42:46] Eric Goranson: I love your connections from that deck to the house. Yeah. You and Mike Gertin both have that down so well of getting, and it's such an important connection of getting that stuff tied [00:43:00] in, taped up, right. All the right flashing in there, all those details and that on your homes that you do, man.

[00:43:07] Eric Goranson: I, I. Yeah. You got to do a lot of surgery sometimes on siding, but it sure looks good when it's all done.

[00:43:12] Dr Decks: Yeah, we do. A lot of guys don't want to touch the siding of the house. They just want to put their deck to the house and they don't want to see what's behind there. And thank God we tore all the siding off because the upper deck cantilevered.

[00:43:25] Dr Decks: Through the house and there was no support post. So I had to cut all that back flush. And then I had to lay it out so that I was attaching to the blocks that are in between the joists that we cut back so that we made sure we had the proper attachment so that we had something that wasn't going to pull away from the house.

[00:43:45] Eric Goranson: Yeah,

[00:43:46] Dr Decks: it was a tricky, sticky situation.

[00:43:48] Eric Goranson: Yeah. Those homes like my house, I had this little tiny Juliet deck off my master when I bought the house. It was like this little three foot by five foot thing, a three foot by six foot off a six foot slider that you could almost [00:44:00] just barely put two plastic launchers out on bought the house.

[00:44:03] Eric Goranson: I looked at the window and I was, I knew it was going to come down anyway, but I stood out on it. And I went, Oh, I could see the metal railing starting to pull away as I stepped back in the door and went, yeah, we're not going back out on that again. Wow. Sure enough, it was. That was just cedar two by tens hanging out there that were coming out just cantilevered and They should have been replaced.

[00:44:25] Eric Goranson: There was drywall screws holding all the it was just

[00:44:28] Dr Decks: Oh, yeah,

[00:44:29] Eric Goranson: you could tell had been 15 handyman that work on that thing

[00:44:32] Dr Decks: Yeah, I don't think people realize the difference between a structural screw and just anything you can buy at home depot You know there's so much that you need to know about construction if you're going to build Professionally for other people, like you're held to a higher standard than most people do, but the things I tear apart, it never ceases to amaze me what I see in a demo.

[00:44:56] Dr Decks: It's just unbelievable. What the type of [00:45:00] construction is just, there's no way a pro could have done this because they'd be fired or they'd lose their license.

[00:45:05] Eric Goranson: You see the mixture of the black drywall screws that are rusty. You see the yellow. Deck screws that they used to be called back in the day that

[00:45:15] Eric Goranson: The gold ones that you can snap off in a heartbeat, trying to put them into some dry wood and that none of those guys are structural out there.

[00:45:22] Eric Goranson: You need to get into something that's rated. I love using Simpson fasteners with Simpson hangers, for instance, I try to match those up pretty well.

[00:45:30] Dr Decks: Those guys in Fastermaster are the two that we use mainly because they're both structural, they're both rated, they're both accepted by most building code officials and jurisdictions and and if something works, you don't really try to change it.

[00:45:45] Dr Decks: except for keeping up with technology and things like that. But yeah, I love Simpson products. I love all the brackets, like you said, and then fast and master. I love most of their fastening products and some of their structural stuff as well.

[00:45:57] Eric Goranson: Nice. Nice. Are you using the Stabilo levels and [00:46:00] stuff?

[00:46:00] Eric Goranson: Is that what you're using out there?

[00:46:01] Dr Decks: Yup. I see a lot

[00:46:03] Eric Goranson: of yellow in your videos, so

[00:46:05] Dr Decks: I've been to, I've been to the plant in Germany. Stabila invited us out to take a look and learn all about their product. And I got to tell you, man, there is nobody else on the market that's making a level like those guys do.

[00:46:18] Dr Decks: And they showed us the competition and they dissected every single, of course they do, who wouldn't, if I would do the same thing. When you're good, right? That's why I do the Stabila challenge, man. Cause people think I'm being abusive to my tools and some guys get offended. But I'm actually trying to throw that level as far as I can.

[00:46:37] Dr Decks: And I want it to go off the other side. If, I know that the limitation and I try not to do it, but if it does, it's okay, because you can pick that thing back up and it'll still be level if you drop an empire level and I've had one, and if you drop it. You're done. Go buy another one.

[00:46:52] Eric Goranson: Sorry, Milwaukee.

[00:46:53] Eric Goranson: That those, if you drop them, they're done.

[00:46:56] Dr Decks: It's just a plastic insert that, that's has a kind of [00:47:00] a lever inside of it that holds the vial level. But once you drop it too much, or if it vibrates too much, then those, that the cam moves inside the level and then it's no longer a level.

[00:47:11] Dr Decks: It's just a straight edge.

[00:47:12] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And that's crazy. I love when you do your challenge and you're sliding that thing across your framing and you see it go 30 feet down there. There is no way to fake that level of quality. It's either slides or it doesn't.

[00:47:26] Dr Decks: Yeah. I've gone to 50 feet. I've thrown those things up to 50 feet on a slide and yeah, you don't always get it right on the first one, it's a, for me, it's a thing.

[00:47:33] Dr Decks: So I have to do it on every job now. Every time I have the opportunity,

[00:47:37] Eric Goranson: dude. And that's the beauty of that is, and that's care of the construction and for the people out there listening, a two by 12 is not consistent with the one next to it. It's close, but you can be off on those dimensions.

[00:47:50] Eric Goranson: Oh, big time. And you have to go in and set each and every one of those things to make it work. And it's either right or it's [00:48:00] not.

[00:48:00] Dr Decks: Yeah. You need to grade your framing before you install it to thickness so that you know that you're not going to have a roller coaster surface when you're done.

[00:48:08] Eric Goranson: And that's one thing with the composites is they're flexible enough that you can start to see that in there.

[00:48:14] Dr Decks: Oh yeah. Yeah, lay down on your deck and look at it, and you're like, oof. We take precaution and care, and every time I come up a ladder or a staircase And I look at the deck and I can still see a hump here or a dip there. We just minimize it. We don't eliminate it unless we get into aluminum framing.

[00:48:31] Dr Decks: Like you asked me a question earlier. What do I see coming in the future? It's alternate metals framing, but I skipped the steel train and I'm waiting for the aluminums to come. I think aluminum framing is going to be one of the biggest booms In our industry, and it's going to take another five to 10 years for it to really start to roll out.

[00:48:51] Dr Decks: And that's where I'm going. That's where I'm putting my efforts in, in, in trying to pick a brand or a couple of brands that I'd like to [00:49:00] use because it will give you a laser flat deck as a matter of fact, I just installed one caught with a company called outdoor. Where the gentleman that owns a company in Australia flew over here. He stayed with me in my house and he shipped over a complete deck section for this above, like a pedestal system deck that we had to do. And we planned it out like months in advance. And he finally came over here in April. And we actually installed it together and it was a lot of work because there was many challenges that he didn't realize when, you can only do so much over a Skype, but it was pretty amazing when it was done and it turned out really nice.

[00:49:39] Eric Goranson: You think about that. If you're putting down a deck product, that's got a long warranty, you've got aluminum in there. That's very consistent and is virtually weatherproof.

[00:49:49] Dr Decks: Yep.

[00:49:50] Eric Goranson: That's a solid system right there. You can put a deck on it and get decades out of that without having to worry about. And for you're not putting to put all the wrap on it, you're not having to do all the [00:50:00] waterproofing on the deck board, on the joists and stuff.

[00:50:02] Eric Goranson: So it's probably going to go quicker in the long run. He had an

[00:50:05] Dr Decks: interlocking clip system too, that we're able to use. So it locked all the boards down and then we only had to fasten it like every five boards. Yeah, it was cool. And it doesn't move.

[00:50:17] Eric Goranson: No. Yeah. It's not going to.

[00:50:19] Dr Decks: No, there's no, there's also cortex driller.

[00:50:21] Dr Decks: Fasten master actually makes a cortex, a fastener that can go into the aluminum and you can cortex it and it locks it down, man. So we pinned all the ends on that deck. So it wouldn't move around. Yeah,

[00:50:37] Eric Goranson: dude, that is awesome. Okay. You got me looking at that now. That's cool stuff. And I think that's, you're right.

[00:50:43] Eric Goranson: And. You're not going to see the challenges we see with lumber prices and availability and, aluminum is aluminum. They can knock that stuff out.

[00:50:51] Dr Decks: Yeah. Yeah. I think mostly like this guy was, his issue is where to import it from, where to import it to And then how to get it [00:51:00] to the States and warehousing and all that.

[00:51:02] Dr Decks: But

[00:51:02] Eric Goranson: you're like ported Tacoma.

[00:51:04] Dr Decks: We talked about it, but he's a busy guy, he's got a 30 million company right now, and he's trying to grow that to a hundred. And he's going to do it. With this product, I can tell you right now, it's pretty, he's actually developing a framing system for us in the States because we're so into our nominal dimensional two by eight, but we can use a two by eight and span at 14 feet. Instead of eight feet or nine thought

[00:51:29] Eric Goranson: of that. Yeah. You get totally different spans out of this

[00:51:33] Dr Decks: and it's flat. Wow. Yeah. All right, man. That's cool. You can build thin with it. There's this system. They have all these varying widths, so you can build a two and a half inch thick deck.

[00:51:46] Eric Goranson: How tricky in a contemporary house could you imagine doing that?

[00:51:49] Eric Goranson: Where it's just

[00:51:50] Dr Decks: Yeah. Laser thin. That would be laser thin. Like for those rooftop, those flat rooftop areas that , people have rubber or whatever. Membranes and stuff on 'em. Yeah. Pop mop on 'em, whatever. [00:52:00] Yeah. This is a cool, that's what, that's why we had to use his system.

[00:52:03] Dr Decks: 'cause I couldn't do a traditional, if I would've done a wood frame, it'd probably already be falling apart by now.

[00:52:08] Eric Goranson: Yeah. So good call. Good call, man. So that's cool stuff. You heard it here first guys. That's the trend from Dr. Dax. That's,

[00:52:16] Dr Decks: that's my trend. See when you cut with steel, every cut you make has to be protected.

[00:52:20] Dr Decks: If you let the shavings go down onto your nice patio or cement, it's going to rust. Okay. So you got to cut off site almost or somewhere contained. And then you still have that often because you can't have

[00:52:33] Eric Goranson: any of those right.

[00:52:34] Dr Decks: It might be silver specs, but it's not going to rust. Um, and then pergola is timber tech just acquired structure, which is an aluminum louvered roof.

[00:52:44] Dr Decks: Yeah. So I think louvered roofs and patio covers are going to be a, another hot item coming up, up and coming for the future. I

[00:52:52] Eric Goranson: didn't see that those guys had grabbed them. That's awesome. Because I looked into that stuff. It's cool. I got a buddy. Really? One of my really good [00:53:00] friends that lives down the street.

[00:53:00] Eric Goranson: We've been looking at that for his, he wants to do a covered area over his deck. Cause out in his backyard is full sun and he just bakes out there. So. And so we were wanting to make a kind of outdoor kitchen area for him that was going to be out in the middle of his yard. And it would look, that's the only

[00:53:13] Dr Decks: thing they're not cheap.

[00:53:14] Dr Decks: It's a premium investment. I can do a standard acrylic and aluminum patio cover for half the cost of a structure. Yeah. So that's usually what I ended up doing. Cause people don't want to spend the extra money unless they really want that pergola. Yeah. But they are sexy. Cool. I think outdoor kitchens and just space like covered space that you can hang out under, but most people don't realize what they're spending.

[00:53:39] Dr Decks: When I go on these estimates, people don't realize how expensive that's going to be. You want a 20 by 20 enclosed covered area with a deck, you're spending a hundred plus thousand dollars and people don't realize they're thinking it's 20 grand and the materials

[00:53:56] Eric Goranson: are twice that three [00:54:00] times that.

[00:54:00] Eric Goranson: So,

[00:54:00] Dr Decks: yeah. So, that's always a rude awakening for a lot of people is just price.

[00:54:05] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:54:06] Dr Decks: I just kicked out a bid for 300 grand for a guy just to do a resurface is 3000 square feet. Yeah, all rail, all new bladders. It was a lot. But I doubt I'll ever see the day, the light of day on that one. I, I didn't expect to, but I wasn't going to just cause it's big, doesn't mean I charge less.

[00:54:23] Eric Goranson: No, it's still labor is labor materials or materials when it comes down to it. You're not having to move off the site, but these days it's not like you're sitting there leaving, your tools on site for a week either. You're still packing up either way. So it's just one big job and it's not like you don't have a waiting list out there either.

[00:54:40] Dr Decks: We're booked out a year right now. The only problem I have is permitting. It's a nightmare.

[00:54:44] Eric Goranson: They have not got that straight yet. And that's, it's, I don't think they're going to anytime soon. I don't care where you're located. It's pretty rare to get, it's feast or famine. When you think, okay, it's slowing down out there, the new home builders are going to [00:55:00] not take up as much time.

[00:55:01] Eric Goranson: So we'll be able to get remodel stuff. That's when the building department lays off the people in the building department. And then you just have less people you're working with. There's never like a sweet spot there.

[00:55:10] Dr Decks: No, it's unfortunate. It's just struggling with that right now.

[00:55:13] Eric Goranson: I bet. I bet. Brother, we are running out of time.

[00:55:17] Eric Goranson: We have blasted through an hour so quickly. Jason, what's the best way for people to track you down out there, man? If someone's going to track you down social media website, where do they find you?

[00:55:27] Dr Decks: Instagram, probably number one. That's my most followed site. It's Dr. Decks, D R D E C K S. You can go to our YouTube channel under the same handle.

[00:55:38] Dr Decks: And my website is also, if you just Google Dr. Decks, you cannot miss me. We will pop up and drDecks. com. That's my webpage. I haven't updated it recently. If you want the most up to date, probably going to go to Instagram, but our YouTube channel is really unique. My son actually cuts the videos and edits and [00:56:00] uploads everything.

[00:56:01] Dr Decks: We spend a lot of money every month trying to promote that. And it's all free to you. All I ask is that you click subscribe.

[00:56:07] Eric Goranson: That's simple. That's simple. Click subscribe on that one guys. And that's where you get your masterclass on this stuff.

[00:56:13] Dr Decks: Yes, sir.

[00:56:14] Eric Goranson: All right, brother. Thanks for coming on today, man.

[00:56:15] Eric Goranson: I really appreciate it. And we're gonna do this again.

[00:56:18] Dr Decks: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

[00:56:19] Eric Goranson: All right. I'm Eric G and you've been listening to Around the House,