TRANSCRIPT:

Patrick Evans: [00:00:00] We are back here at Skip Page's little bar in the coveted corner booth. My name is Patrick Evans. This is Big Conversations Little Bar with my cohost, dear friend and spiritual guru, but non dietary consultant any longer. Randy Florence. You had

Randy Florence: biscuits and gravy? I had biscuits and gravy for lunch, but that was spiritual.

Was it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I kind of, this they are, if they're done right. Oh, th This one was Wilma and Frida's. Oh, yes. You can't do better than that in this time. I

Patrick Evans: love Wilma. I can't stand Frida. No, I'm kidding.

Randy Florence: That's, except I walked in there singing Yaba Dabadoo and they, it's not, not, I thought it was Fred and Wilma's, not Fred and Wilma's.

Wilma. Hey, I wanna bring something up. Uh oh. Because this is huge. Yes. What happened? Um, free Spot. Is that the name of the website?

Patrick Evans: Oh, blog Spot. I think. Blog Spot. Okay. Well, we're here, we've done more research on that. We are

Randy Florence: very proudly here to announce. We're the number one podcast in Coachella Valley and we [00:01:00] just passed Fire, the Firebirds Fire from their, from the Firebirds.

Yeah. But

Patrick Evans: you know, and I, I feel badly for the Firebirds, uh, but you know, they've made it to the playoffs three times, but

Randy Florence: we've lasted longer than this season than they have.

Patrick Evans: That is true. That's true. I thought third time was gonna be true. Yeah. We, I, I really appreciate, uh, the blogs, but they, they ranked.

Coachella Valley Podcast. And it, thankfully, it wasn't based on listenership, it was based on a, a number of, uh, algorithms, I assume

Randy Florence: cocktails consume.

Patrick Evans: Yeah, cocktails consume, cocktails consume. We were number one a long time ago. Uh, but yeah, they named us the, the podcast number one

Randy Florence: podcast in the valley.

And

Patrick Evans: that ranking is only gonna be further solidified by our guest today, Del Shores, who really needs. Zero introduction in the Coachella Valley because your work here resonates so much with the Coachella Valley, and I've had the pleasure of having you on Eye on the Desert a few times. So let's jump right in with Sordid Lives, because you're celebrating a big [00:02:00] anniversary 25 years.

Del Shores: 25 years. I can't believe it. I was like, the other day, I, someone asked me, uh, how old were you when it, and I'd already said it's 25 years old, so they're just trying to, I said, look, I am, I'm 67 now and proud of it because I feel very young in Palm Springs in the, in the valley here.

Randy Florence: We were born in the same year.

Del Shores: Is that right? You and I?

Randy Florence: Except I wasn't born in Winters, Texas.

Del Shores: Yeah, there were very few of us. Who were

Randy Florence: you? Yeah,

Patrick Evans: I was born in 57. And you're, uh, you came from a, a Southern Baptist background? I

Del Shores: did.

Patrick Evans: Um. I, I I did too as well. Did you really? Yeah. Well, it was weird. My mother was a Methodist and my father was Catholic, so they settled on Baptist.

That is very odd.

Del Shores: Very odd. Can you cuss on this? Yes. I was gonna say that is fucked up. It is. It's, it's all kinds of fucked up, frankly. I mean, why, that'd be like saying let's be a Mormon. Yeah. I mean, [00:03:00] well,

Randy Florence: we haven't even talked about their Scientology time yet, so.

Patrick Evans: Well,

Randy Florence: but we

Patrick Evans: only did that because Tom Cruise is so damned handsome.

Del Shores: Oh.

Patrick Evans: When he comes to the house, you say, sure. I wanna be a Scientologist. I would, yeah. Um, yeah. No, and that's why I actually really, a lot of your work resonates with me because I, I, I have since retreated back to the Catholic church, um, because I felt like as an Italian American, the Southern Baptist really didn't want me.

Um,

Del Shores: congratulations on your new Pope. Yes. Oh, thank you. We like Pope Lee, do you have anything to do with that? I think for Pope, he's kind of sexy. Um, that's what I said. I was what they were saying. It's down to three. I said, which is because I always go by not their qualifications. Who is the hottest?

That's what I want. Well, he's

Patrick Evans: relatively a young man for the position

Del Shores: my age. Yes. There you go. And you

Patrick Evans: know, my wife said to, she said, you know, he has a really kind face. So I guess that is, uh, a sexy quality. And what

Randy Florence: gay guy does it like 69. [00:04:00] That's his number. Is he 69? Yeah. I'm gonna,

Patrick Evans: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, I think even the straight people can get into that.

I don't, yeah, I don't think that's limited. That's, uh, I have

Randy Florence: no idea what you guys are talking about.

Del Shores: I, I had someone the other day, I was talking about 69, and she said, this woman, she goes, I don't like 69. It's just too much multitask.

Randy Florence: So we went from the pope. Yeah, we went right to right. You know the, I'll

Del Shores: bring you into the gutter very fast. One of us will be bursting

Randy Florence: into flames in the next five minutes.

Patrick Evans: Um, you know the fastest speed at which you can have sex. Is 68 because at 69 you have to turn around. Oh, just, oh, wow. That's, we have real low.

Del Shores: So yes, Southern Baptist. Baptist. Baptist. My dad, Southern, Southern Baptist, grew Southern Baptist, preacher Baptist,

Patrick Evans: you know, I was in the choir as a Southern Baptist kid and, and you know, there's a culture

Del Shores: Yeah.

Patrick Evans: Uh, that, that permeates that. And it really is interesting to me to, to look back at some of your work because I see how that influenced you.

But it must have been very, [00:05:00] a very different experience. Well, especially in the deep south.

Del Shores: Yeah. I mean, you know, I'm from Texas and my dad was, uh, I was. Like, my dad was the Southern Baptist preacher. My mom was the high school drama teacher, so I had theatrics on both sides of the family. But, um, but honestly, uh, in, in, in my writing of Southern Baptist sissies, and I'm sure you felt this too, there was, there was actually a wonderful community there.

Oh, absolutely. And the church. And, and I remember when I wrote Mark, which was based on me, and he looked around and he said, I'm leaving the church, but I'm gonna miss it. The sweet old ladies, the southern, the, the, you know, the covered dish fellowships, the hymns. I mean, I still get stoned and go on YouTube and listen to Sandy Patty and, uh, you know, it's just part of the gaithers, you know?

Patrick Evans: Yeah. No, there is this, this sense of community and, and those, those Sunday potluck dinners after church. Yeah. Uh, those, those kinds of [00:06:00] things. But my

Del Shores: brother was talking to me recently. We're, we're, we've gotten very, very close over our, um, disdain for, uh, Donald Trump. And, uh, it brings a lot

Patrick Evans: of people together.

Well, united that way. I,

Del Shores: I adore my brother. He was my big brother. And, but he was a, he became a Southern Baptist, uh, preacher and he was a Republican for years. And this really. He brought us together in a, in a, in an odd way. I always go, if there anything positive came out of this administration. It was my relationship with my brother.

But we were talking and he said, sometimes when I read your work or where, where I hear you talking about our childhood, it seems like that you were, uh, you, you had an unhappy childhood. And I don't think we did. And I said the difference, my brother's name is Dexon. I said the difference was I heard a different sermon than you did.

John McMullen: Oh.

Del Shores: Because of who I was and who I was hiding. I could not hear what you were hearing. [00:07:00] Or you didn't hear that because it didn't apply to you. But what I heard growing up in those pews was I was going to hell.

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: You know? So it was a d Yeah, it was a different experience. And we did have a wonderful, happy childhood.

My parents were amazing, but uh, in that, you know, as. Mark said in Southern Baptist sissies, this is where we learned to hate ourselves.

Randy Florence: And and when did your parents start to know that this was becoming an issue for you?

Del Shores: Well, they didn't for many years. 'cause you know, I married a woman. I had two, I have two, uh, daughters.

I'm gonna be a grandpa, by the way, in my oh, three weeks. Congratulations. Congratulations. My youngest daughter, Caroline, is pregnant with a baby. Nothing better than grandkids, baby boy. Yeah. And we're all excited about that. And I don't regret that, the damage that I had, because it gave me, uh, these two amazing kids.

And it also, you know, damage gave me a career. Uh, but

Patrick Evans: what would you have to write about? That's right.

Del Shores: I mean, except for all the, all the fucked upness of your life. But in that, uh, yeah, it, [00:08:00] it was, it was tough for me. And then when I did come out rather late, it was especially hard for my, my dad and my brother.

I bet my mom immediately. 'cause my mom was Latrell. My mom was going, oh honey, I've been waiting for this your entire life. You know? She wasn't surprised. No. Wasn't surprised at all, you know, so

Randy Florence: and so, how did this. I, I mean it seems pretty obvious based on your early writings, but how did this kind of form what you did when you started writing?

Del Shores: Well, you know, early, early career, uh, when, when I was living a straight life and I wrote Daddy's Dying, who's Got The Will, which became a movie I. Uh, I think what it, how it informed it was that, uh, there was a celebration of sorts of the church. I mean, there's always hymns in every piece of work that I've written, there's, there's always, uh, that the foundation of that, that, that religion is there, how it.

You know how it is, is interpreted by each character is different. But, [00:09:00] uh, it was always a part of me. So I've always, I I, I've many times said I'm not really a writer. I'm just a thief. You know, I stealing from

Patrick Evans: your

Del Shores: past. That's right. I mean, you know, I, with daddy's diet, when I wrote Daddy's Die, I was 20, I was 28 years old when it opened.

The play opened and, uh, it opened in a 64 seat house in Hollywood. I never thought my family, except for my mom, nobody goes to theater. I never thought that they would know about it. So I just stole my mother's family when and when my grandpa was dying. And, uh, my paw. And, uh, oh boy. When that movie came out, my Aunt Rita didn't speak to me for seven years.

They reckon. So she really ruffled feathers. Oh, it was, it was obvious who was who? It it, yes. And they were like all excited, I've got this movie coming out, and I didn't tell 'em what it was about. I was like, I was like, how do you tell 'em? Oh, the good news is it's about you guys. And the bad news is it's about you guys.

It's about you guys. But, uh, it all

Patrick Evans: worked

Del Shores: out,

Patrick Evans: you [00:10:00] know? So, uh, you, uh, you maintained a straight lifestyle and married and had kids. Um, but when did you actually like, like. Going through

Del Shores: that, you must have been terribly conflicted. Very, yeah. You know, there's a lot of, uh, pray the Gay away. Right, right. That was taught you, you, I mean, you probably heard that in those pews yourself, not that, that you had to deal with that.

You, uh, but it, it, it was, it was a part of me, my struggle. And so I, one day, you know, I'm in therapy and, uh, I had met somebody online that was, it wasn't a full on affair, but it was, it was, there was an emotional affair going on, and I had to confess to my therapist, uh, I, I think I'm bi. That's how you start.

I think I'm bi. Finally, about six months later, after I, you know, the, [00:11:00] the, the marriage fell apart and she, she has a doctor, Dr. Sandra Bacca. I love her. She said, now it's, you keep calling yourself bi, but how many, uh, women have you, uh, been with, uh, since you, you decided that it was okay to be with men? And I go, okay, I'm gay.

Randy Florence: Just the one. And I said, bye. You put, you know,

Del Shores: so it was, it was you down the brass tacks. It was not easy. It was really not easy.

Randy Florence: You mentioned in church, you told your brother that you were always kind of hiding something. Um, did you know what you were hiding, of course. Or did you just feel different?

Del Shores: No, I knew what I was hiding.

Yeah. I knew, you know, I knew I was attracted to. That summer missionary Mike, I knew I was attracted to, you know, this, this guy, Pope guy, you know that.

Patrick Evans: Well, you know, mildly mildly. The thing about I, I, I think you would agree with this, I don't know, but the thing I, that I always found about, uh, you know, I grew up kind of immersed in [00:12:00] Southern Baptist, this, but it's a, it's a very intolerant church.

Yeah. I, I think, you know, uh, uh, famously, uh, a former president of the Southern Baptist Association said, God doesn't hear the prayers of Jews. I mean, it, it, yeah. I mean, I think it's, it's just an incredibly, like, it's kind of our way or the highway, right? And so no matter how you might be different. Uh, any difference?

Any difference? No. You know, you just, it's, there's

Del Shores: no, there's no, you know, it's, it's, oh, there's this whole philosophy of Christianity. Oh, we love, we accept. But no, that is not the case. And I remember when we first did Southern Baptist sissies, after it ran in la we moved it to Dallas, Texas, and it's in the heat of summer.

Just, just, you know, blazing hot. And we thought, oh, nobody's gonna come to see this play. And then the Baptist got mad. Oh, they got mad because we had this, uh, poster with this, uh, very hot man in a Speedo on the Pope on the [00:13:00] cross. On the cross. On the cross. And they were like, you took our cross and you desecrated it.

And, uh, I was like, well, it's my cross too. And this is what it means to me. It means the persecution of, of, of, of. The L-G-B-T-Q community. And so they wouldn't run our ads in the Dallas Morning News. But what happened was, uh, they then ran an article in the religion section about the conflict of this poster.

And, uh, then Channel five there interviewed me in on the set and it was this wonderfully warm set of a church. And I'm sitting there in a pew, kind

Randy Florence: of like this, right? Yeah, yeah. The bar we're in, like, this is a house of worship for some of worship. Well, that's

Del Shores: sort of my sanctuary these days. So, um, I remember this wonderful reporter asked me, she said, what's the difference between your message and this play and the message that, uh, you heard in these pews growing up?

And I said, well, the difference is exactly what's [00:14:00] being spewed, uh, against this play. It's, it's, it's all about hatred and we're about this play. Talks about love and acceptance and understanding for everybody that interview aired. And we sold out every ticket, I bet. Every ticket before we opened. And they were threatening to protest and I was excited.

Bring it on. Bring, get, I think

Patrick Evans: absolutely a religious protest. Like when they get mad about movies, everybody goes to see movies. Oh, movie. Yeah. They're like, absolutely, my Baptist don't like this. We should go see it. Yeah.

Del Shores: That's why Married with Children became a hit because they, they had an uproar over it.

So anyway, we, Leslie Jordan and I arrive at the theater or like opening night, and there's one Pitiful protestor. There was just a sign that said, oh goodness, sodomites are going to hell, or something like that. And I said, Leslie, I was hoping for more protestors. And he said, oh, honey Baptist, don't protest in the heat.[00:15:00]

Randy Florence: You, you just mentioned a reverential name in this valley. Oh, Leslie. Leslie Jordan. What can, what can you tell us about that relationship?

Del Shores: It was. Um, hmm. You know, it's weird because for a little while I was doing interviews, I said, I can't talk about this. Mm-hmm. Uh, because it's too hard. And, uh, he was, he was as close to me as any family member has ever been.

I mean, he was like my, my brother of sorts, he was the brother I didn't have, uh, growing up who understood everything. I always say Leslie was my mentor in, in learning to be gay. I, when I, I, Dr. Sandra, when I was having a hard time coming out, she said, choose somebody that will celebrate it. And so I called Leslie and I told him the real reason the marriage fell apart.

And he said, oh honey, we are gonna have. So much fun. And you know, he took me on a journey and we went on a journey together, a, a [00:16:00] a lot of journey with life and with children. He loved my daughter so much. He was, you know, he was godfather to my oldest daughter and I always say he never gave her any spiritual advice, but he gave her lots of good presents and, and um, he was just an amazing, not only an amazing friend, but he elevated my work.

You know, it was like you write something and then this voice of Leslie Jordan and this. Little body portrays those characters and they are elevated to another. He's just bigger

Randy Florence: than life, wasn't

Del Shores: he? They were. He was, he was an amazing, and it was, it's single, the single hardest death I've ever had in my life was Leslie's.

Yeah. Yeah. I just wasn't expecting it.

Randy Florence: Anything about him that most of us wouldn't know?

Del Shores: Um, I guess I, I, I told this story at his, uh, you know, I hosted his memorial. They had it a, a memorial, a public memorial in Chattanooga. And [00:17:00] I told a story about when we first started working together. He, he was in my very, very first play.

Uh, when it went equity. We went to Kansas City together. He had auditioned for me. And I was like, where have you been? And, uh, so we just became buddies immediately. And I remember, uh, we were there during Christmas. Uh, we, we had rehearsal like on. The day before Christmas Eve and the day after Christmas. So we couldn't go anywhere and we would go to this little diner and this waitress was waiting on us, and we had gotten to know her and she was going through a really bad divorce with this awful husband this year.

She was young, and he said, are you, what, what are you going to do for the kids for Christmas? And she got all teary eyed and she said, well, it's not going to be much of a Christmas this year because, um, you know, he, he hasn't been supporting us and I just don't have the money. And so she goes away and Leslie said, do you still have your per diem?[00:18:00]

And now let me explain something. Back then we were making $350 a week for the play and maybe a hundred dollars extra in per diem, like $20 a day or something. Yeah. And I said, yeah. And he said, okay, let's give her 50 each. So those, so those kids can have some Christmas. And so he wrote her a little note and we left her a hundred dollars and then he, when we got out to the car, he said, let's watch her.

And so we watched her just collapse. Into the, you know, into the bow. The bow. And that's a great story. So that's who he was. It was, you know, he was, he, he, he gave and, and he gave back and he saw people and he loved, he loved to talk to anybody.

Randy Florence: And was he like that as an actor? Very giving as another actor on stage?

Del Shores: Well, [00:19:00] he was like a giving as long as he got the last Oh, okay. I mean, Ann Walker, who played Lavonda, who she was at Southern Baptist, as she tells a story about, she said he would go dig through his purse. He just steals focus, you know, she go, why are you doing in my monologue? What are you doing that everybody's laughing at my getting the laugh.

Getting the laugh. That's awesome. That is phenomenal.

Patrick Evans: Nothing when, uh, Sordid Lives debuted. Um, you know, again, you're looking back at 25 years of this, it's become kind of your, your seminal work. Um. Did, did you have any inkling that it was gonna strike such a chord?

Del Shores: Look, Patrick, we honestly, to tell you the truth, we didn't know what we were doing.

We had no idea we had, I, I had never directed a film. I directed plays, of course, I was very good with actors, but I hired a DP and, uh, he was, he was one of our producing partners. He was one of the reasons [00:20:00] Max Sivan, who, who got the movie made because he worked at Sony and we got all this equipment of high death and he really taught me about the 180 and, you know, and how to direct.

But I knew that if I did it simply with this amazing group of actors, that it would, that it would work. And I had the play experience, so I knew where the laughs were, so I knew how to edit it. And we just started flying blind. I mean, we literally were just submitting to every film festival. And you know what's, uh, interesting?

This is, we're in the Valley. Um, I remember they invited me, the Palm Springs Film Festival invited me to a, a fundraiser in LA and they wanted me to speak about my experience with, uh, the Palm Springs Film Festival since it had been such a big deal here. And I said, my experience with the Palm Springs Film Festival was, it was the first film festival that turned us down.

Oh, wow. They didn't know. They thought we had played the Palm Springs Film Festival and they had no idea that they didn't, [00:21:00] they

Patrick Evans: rejected the film. They rejected it. Oh my God. What, what

Del Shores: happened here in the Valley? Is that the reason in this city, this. This area is the reason that Palms, that Palm Springs made sort of lives a hit.

And, uh, Marshall, who was the, the general manager at the Camelot Theaters, he saw it at this fundraiser for the museum we played at one night, only at the Annenberg. And he asked, uh, Regent if he could put it in the theater.

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: And he just, it all started from there. The word of mouth just started. So all of a sudden we're hearing these rumblings, oh, it's been running three months.

Oh, it's been running six months. And then at one year they ask us all to come down. So that's when we, when we knew what it was. Was then, but we truly had no idea that this was, this was what was happening and what would happen. We had no idea.

Randy Florence: And how did this change your life?

Del Shores: Well, I mean, it gets me a lot of free [00:22:00] drinks in Palm Springs.

That is worth its way. Get to be on major podcasts like

Randy Florence: this, you knows, major podcast, the number one podcast in Coachella Valley, number one in the

Del Shores: Coachella Valley right here. Absolutely no, it, it, it has changed my life in that, um, that this, this, this piece of work that, you know, I wrote as sort of a, an extension of my own coming out experience, uh, gave other people.

Some sort of, uh, voice as well. And, uh, and it just continues. I'm, I'm shocked that it's, that people still, you know, see me on the street and scream out, you know, do you see my pussy now? I mean, I mean,

Randy Florence: and your answer is usually, I always go, I am a major playwright. And that's,

Del Shores: that's the most famous line I've written.

There it is. So was

Randy Florence: there some point in your career where you started looking at the fact that you were on stage with Leslie Jordan and [00:23:00] Delta Burke and people like this and thinking, how, how did I get here? Yeah.

Del Shores: Yeah, I, you know what, I, I have a wonderful friend, he's still my friend. He was our publicist, ed Baron, and I remember he, he also kind of didn't know what he was, young publicist.

That's, and we could afford him, but he was great. And he got us because of Olivia, because of Delta. I mean, Delta had just come off of designing women. Mm-hmm. She was on hireable kind of at the time, you know, with all the bad publicity. And I was her first, her first job back and Olivia to grace her talent.

That's just crazy to, to do this little tiny film. She had been my friend for many years. Her sister Rona and I were very close. She was in my acting class. And then Bo Bridges had done Daddy's dying. So I was able to gather this cast that I didn't deserve, and then suddenly we're on Good Morning America and we're on the Today Show.

And I think that's when, when I saw Delta doing that [00:24:00] interview on. Uh, either Entertainment Tonight or Good Morning America. I was thinking, wow, this is a different animal than I thought it was, and it, but, but here's what happens. As the Insecure director, and, and, and I, you know, young at the time, I was going.

I just hope it's good. I just hope it's, I hope it, I hope that when it comes out, because this was before it came out, right?

Patrick Evans: That was the publicity tour leading up to the release. Yes.

Del Shores: And then you, you, so you're just hoping, and, and you know, it didn't get good reviews. It was, it was really No, no. You go to Rotten Tomatoes, it's like a, it's like my least.

Best, I mean, of all my movies, it's the least best reviewed really. If that makes sense. That's, I mean,

Patrick Evans: it's shocking me, but because, you know, my lens of that film is through, I lived in Palm Springs, you know, for the last 23 years. So when people talk about Sordid Lives, it's, it's a legend here. Yeah. So, I mean, that's, that's really 96

Del Shores: weeks it ran.

Wow. Yeah. I mean, no, it was, so did you

Randy Florence: get to the point [00:25:00] of accepting that you were good and that you were worthy of everything that was coming

Del Shores: to you? Well, you know, we all have imposter syndrome. Yeah. I think we all do. And I, I, after I did Sordid Lives, Olivia and I bonded even more and she wanted me to write this movie 'cause she had, uh, talked to Showtime and for her, she and her daughter Chloe.

And so I wrote a movie called The Wild Girls, and I remember this moment of, I was staying at the, um, the con, these condominium, uh, is called the Zou in at the, in the Gold Coast in Australia. And it was the first day of shooting, and I'm jogging to Abba and um, I see Olivia all coming my way. And so we jogged together and she said, how are you feeling, mate?

And I said, uh, I'm just scared that people are going to find out that I'm really not that good. Wow. And she said, I go through it every time I step on stage. Wow. And so I thought, oh. And, and her telling me that [00:26:00] for some reason gave me permission to be good. And it, it was 'cause, because, because writing was always easy for me.

You know? It was, yeah. It was an easy thing. It didn't, and, and you go to Deepak Chopra and the, the, uh, seven laws of spiritual success, the law of least effort. Like you, you're very, y'all are very good at this. This is easy for you. Well, sometimes that's. That's why you're the number one podcast in the Valley.

You, you, because it's easy and it's good.

Patrick Evans: Well, thank you. I, I get that. No, that, that makes a lot of sense because writing was easy for you and that's what you're good at. But you know, it translates into all these other things that you've gone on to do, so, yeah.

Randy Florence: Well, when you get to the point of feeling comfortable with what you're doing, you're not worrying about all the other stuff.

Like, am I doing good or not right? You're just doing it.

Patrick Evans: Yeah. Well, I think there's also, you know, just that whole idea of like when something that you've done [00:27:00] creates enough success that you're paying the bills and you're not worried about writing the next check, then all of a sudden, like, okay, I'm doing okay at this.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. You know, that's, that's a

Del Shores: good feeling. They're still hiring me so that, you know, it, um, I don't know. It's been a good ride. It's still, it's still going, but it's been a good ride and I, I, uh, many, many, many times people have asked me, uh, do you have a issue with being identified with Sordid Lives so much because I have written a lot of other stuff.

A lot of other stuff, yes. A lot of other stuff. And I go, no, I don't. I, I celebrate it. So when, if the That's, that's fine.

Patrick Evans: I mean, I guess some people can get very resentful. Like they, they do many things, but you get known for that one particular thing. Right. And maybe you get a little resentful of it. Uh, you know, I think some big star, like Sean Connery was a little resentful of only being known as James Bond for a while, but then he reconciled and realized that was a, it's a good thing.

Um, but I guess it's easy to do. But, uh, [00:28:00] when you look back, you know, as you say, you've written so many different things. Put Sordid Lives aside. What are, is Southern Baptist Sissies one of your favorites? It is my favorite. It is your

Del Shores: favorite? It's my favorite of everything. Yeah. But I mean, I love sort of lives because that's because the

Randy Florence: personal story, it was

Del Shores: so personal to me and it was so healing for me because I, you know, when I wrote that play, I wrote it with resistance.

I, um, my, I'd had a, back then my brother and I did not have such a great relationship and there was some issues over me and being gay and, you know, the not understanding and, uh, Matthew Shepard was murdered. And I had a conversation with him about, um, how I felt that there was a possibility because I'd seen this article in Time Magazine where they were interviewing one of the girlfriends, and on the, on the wall was a picture of Jesus.

And that's why Southern Baptist Sissies was written because I saw that picture and I thought, I wonder if they learn [00:29:00] to hate and pews. I wonder if that's why. So I, I was having this conversation with my brother and he said, that line that I hate this day, because it said a lot, well, we don't hate the sin or we hate the sin.

And I'm like, but I don't think that a certain age people can differentiate.

Randy Florence: And I don't think Jesus said that.

Del Shores: No. And Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Come on. He hung out with all those disciples. You know, there was I 12 guys

Patrick Evans: that

Del Shores: never mentioned a

Patrick Evans: girlfriend, uh, for one of them. No, I mean.

Good point. I mean, I'm no scholar on that. I don't maybe yeah, maybe Peter had a chick on the side. I don't know.

Del Shores: But, but, and the Thaddius was the effeminate one. That's what they said. So anyway, it doesn't matter that that, but that started the journey for me. And I started writing and I started writing, you know, just a monologue about, you know, when I was a kid, I had a crush on Jesus.

And did it

Randy Florence: just start to kind of come out?

Del Shores: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patrick Evans: We are gonna take a [00:30:00] quick break to recognize our presenting sponsor, the McCallum Theater. They make all of this possible. Yes. Uh, they're incredibly generous to us, but they're incredibly generous to the Valley and all of the wonderful things they provide, including their incredible education department.

Uh, so we wanna pause and acknowledge the McCallum Theater and McCallum theater.org. All right, we are back. Thanks again to the McCallum Theater. Uh, we are here with Del Shores, and we're just diving into, we jumped right into sort of lies, but now we've, uh, pivoted to Southern Baptist sissies and, and, uh, we were just getting into kinda your writing process.

Like it, you just, uh, it just started spilling out of you.

Del Shores: Yeah. That it, it it's self-taught in a way, but it's also, you know, I, I, I now have the, uh, privilege of mentoring and, and teaching. I, I teach at Northwestern State University every year as a guest artist, and, uh, I, I always tell my students, just read plays.

If you're gonna write, plays, replays, and that's what I have to go back to. My mom, who was that [00:31:00] drama teacher, and she used to pay my brother and myself a dollar to either read a play or a book. Every time, every one that we read, she would give us a dollar until she stopped. Because I kept reading so many that she was going broke.

Did she care what you read? No, she had a whole, we had this one area in our house that was kind of a hallway and she just filled it with books. And so that was my education and my, and she always, every year, you know, she directed the, the plays in high school and she would get this big stack of Samuel French, uh, playbooks and she would say, you wanna read them with me?

And I would just devour them in the summer. And one of my proudest moments with her was taking her to, um. The bookstore, the Samuel French bookstore, and showing her my plays on the show. Oh, wow. How

Randy Florence: did she react?

Del Shores: She was very proud. Yeah. You know, my mother was really, really proud of, uh, Mo [00:32:00] not, not so much the, the movies and the television as much as the plays because she, well, that was her world.

That was her world. She was a theater person and a theater director. So, um, and

Patrick Evans: so you learned by just absorbing these plays?

Del Shores: Yeah. You know, so yeah, I went, I went to Baylor and majored in journalism In Spanish. In Spanish? Yeah.

Patrick Evans: Have you ever written a play in Spanish?

Del Shores: No. I've written some words,

Patrick Evans: a few choice words.

You told us a really funny story before we started taping and you were talking about an experience you had, uh, with a woman here in town, but the line that you used, you said, and if she had a southern accent, I. She could be a character in one of my plays. Exactly. It's, it's so ingrained in you. I mean, that, that, that is, I mean, that's your, the well source for what you do, right?

Yeah. That, that's that southern experience. Yes. And, and I mean, everybody comes from that cast of characters that you grew up around.

Del Shores: Yeah. It's uh, I call it my dirt, you [00:33:00] know, that's why when back to Leslie, people would always say, why did you connect with him? And I said, because we came from the same dirt.

You know, we grew up in the Southern Baptist Church. We, we just, you know, with a secret of being gay. And, um, yeah, you

Randy Florence: brought a lot of your stuff in, into all that early writing, but some of the later writing you did like, uh, queer as folk. How, how did. How did your life come into that?

Del Shores: Well, my gay life came into that because I had, you know, uh, when, when I wrote Southern, when I wrote Southern Baptist Sissies, Ron and Dan, who created Ron, Ron Cowen and, uh, Dan Lipman created Queer As Folk.

Mm-hmm. And I had that back to that Olivia and John picture. Suzy Kurtz was in it. And Suzy was in their Siri sisters. Yes. When she got back to the States after we filmed, she told them, you have to go see Del Shores Southern Baptist, 'cause you need to hire him on your show. And they came on Friday and they hired me on Monday.

Wow. Wow. I met with them and they hired me in the [00:34:00] room and, uh, they said something that day they said, we like in our show for you to take your life, share it in the writer's room, and then let's see what characters it fits. And, you know, we, we did that so many times. I mean, you know, I, we filmed in, uh, Toronto and there was a doctor up there, Dr.

Soli, who would, uh, give me shots in my face to make me look, uh, young. And so we stole all of that. I would, I would come to the writer's room just like black and blue and they'd go, Dale, you have to stop. But we, we, the Botox addiction, we, we took that and gave it to Ted because he was feeling insecure. So that was a wonderful, wonderful experience for me to write on queer folk.

I loved it so much. How long did you do that? I did it for three years. Wow. I did the last three seasons. Um, so.

Randy Florence: [00:35:00] Some pretty iconic stuff that you've been involved with.

Del Shores: I've been lucky. I've been, you gotta be pretty proud of that. I, I am, I'm, I'm proud of my body of work and continuing, I'm continuing more in the theater these days.

I just directed a playoff Broadway, um, that, uh, written by a wonderful writer named Jigs Burgess. And he was, uh, the, uh, winner of, I have a foundation now, the Del Shores Foundation, and he was our very first winner, our playwright winner. This was his second play. So we give opportunity to L-G-B-T-Q, uh, playwrights and screenwriters and short film writers.

Patrick Evans: Tell me how the foundation came about.

Del Shores: You know, wonderful, wonderful man named Stuart Bell, who's one of my closest friends. He actually lives here in Palm Springs now. He's the one who got me to, to move down here. He said, come join us. In the land of delusion, we pretend that all of this is not happening.

All of this in the world is not happening. It is like you could just

Randy Florence: tear the curtain aside and [00:36:00] go, oh, this is a little bar,

Del Shores: and pretend that this is not happening. In our world, this is a bubble. We live in a bubble. It's, it's a pretty good bubble. But I had mentored one of my close friends, uh, Matt Hayes, who had written a wonderful little short film, and I was going, you need to do this and this.

And then we raised the money and, uh, I helped him, uh, make it. And, and Stewart was wonderfully generous in helping with financially. And he came to Emerson Collins, who has been my producing partner since 2006 now, and he said, why don't we create a foundation where you can do this for other people, where you can really help L-G-B-T-Q storytellers.

And we, and I was like, oh, no. It's too hard. This is too much work. And then Emerson had a brainstorm of, if we had a contest every year and you could submit your scripts and if you've never been produced, you could never be produced in playwriting or screenwriting or short [00:37:00] films. And then we had one winner, winner.

And, um, then we give opportunity to them. We, and so we've had, uh, one of our short films was may play the Festival Circuit last year, and all of our plays have been produced. I. And I have really big news, actually, this is the first time I've been able to talk about it. 'cause it just happened. Uh, the winner of Emma, who just won a Scalia, is her last name.

She just won, uh, our third year, uh, with a, a play called cockroaches. Uh, is going to premiere at the Revolution Theater. Oh,

Randy Florence: that's great. Oh, terrific. Yeah.

Del Shores: Yeah.

Randy Florence: When does that come out?

Del Shores: Uh, it's, it's gonna be in 2 20 26. Yeah. Alright. So in their season,

Patrick Evans: revolution stage company.com is the website when it comes out called Cockroach.

Del Shores: So watch that. It's, uh, the ink is not even drive, probably shouldn't even be saying it, but I'm gonna say it. Well, by the time,

Patrick Evans: by the time we produce this thing, I mean, it, it takes us months, months to get one of these things out and so our listener will have

Randy Florence: forgotten [00:38:00] about it by then. No, no. They'll

Patrick Evans: be ready to go.

It'll be almost, oh, it's all, it's all good. I mean, so

Randy Florence: what, directing in front of the camera, behind the camera, what, what do you like to do the most if you had to pick one?

Del Shores: I, you know, I, I love this question and I do have a, an answer for it. If I thank God, if I could pick one thing of the, the hats that I've, I've, I've worn, I would be directing one of my own plays.

It's my, it's my favorite thing to do 'cause it's the last step. In the process for me now as a writer is to direct the piece. I've directed everything I've written since, uh, Sordid Lives.

Randy Florence: Have you directed yourself?

Del Shores: I've not, no. Now that I don't do when like, Emerson Collins directs all of my one man shows.

Okay. When I, when I stand in, I, I need that other eye. I really do. And I, I, I, I can't even direct, I, I, I don't even understand how Eastwood and, uh, you know, and Kevin Costner, these [00:39:00] great movie stars. I'm not sure how they can direct themselves on film. I, it, it's not in my, my Tell us about the one man shows.

Um, I, you know, I've had a great time, uh, standing on stage and talking shit and, uh, well, how did

Randy Florence: talk about how that started?

Del Shores: Well, it started out of kind of being broke. Um, when the, when the source of all great ideas for me.

Randy Florence: I have to go in a minute. I've got a second job and we started at five o'clock.

It's

Del Shores: like, got that dishwashing job over. Oh God, I hope I still have it at Willy's down the street. Oh, if it was Willies, that'd be pretty cool.

Randy Florence: Unfortunately, it's the Denny's on Washington, but, oh God, it's America's diner.

Patrick Evans: There's nothing wrong with that.

Del Shores: Look, the sure story is that, um, when Sordid the series was a hit on LOGO and the producer decided not to pay us our residuals and stalled the second season. And I was in legal hell for a couple of years with my hands [00:40:00] tied. I could not write my own series. I could not write for any other series. I had no source of income.

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: And so, my ex-husband, I said, I wasn't gonna talk about him, but he did do something great.

He said, you sit around the dining table and you tell great stories. Why don't you write one. And let's go and you've got a this fan base everywhere. And that's what we did. And uh, I started telling stories on stage and I had the great, the great mentor too, actually, Caroline Ray, who really helped me. And, and she's

Randy Florence: such a funny woman.

Del Shores: Uh, well she saw my one man show in, in New York and she said, why don't you come open with me and do standup? I can help you mine this material that you have. And she taught me. And then I just watched Leslie for years, just sit with a mic and tell stories. And so one of the best nights of my life, we did six shows, was me, [00:41:00] Leslie, Caroline Rhea, and Ru McClanahan.

Oh my God. Playing comics in New York. Wow. So that sort of evolved and I started doing, you know, I did over 500 shows just talking shit. And then I wrote a play. Called six characters in search of a play. And what I did is I took people like Paula that I told you about, yes. Anybody that I felt like was circling the wagon that I haven't told you about yet.

And I chose six and I wrote this play and you know, it was. Emerson directed it. We filmed it. And

Randy Florence: did, did you have any projects that you were working on and they just never got out there? Yes, I had

Del Shores: the, the ones that got away. Yeah. Yeah. Several. You know, I I Any

Randy Florence: that you're gonna try to bring back

Del Shores: of Yeah.

There's, there's a couple that, that, that I feel so passionate about. Emerson and I actually wrote a, a, a pilot and [00:42:00] series a few years ago during COVID that we sold and, um, loved it so much. It's called Mildred and, um, that, that, that's one. And then I wrote a, I wrote a screenplay years ago with Leslie called When F Fleeta Goes Marching In.

And, uh, it's a funny title.

Patrick Evans: It is, and it,

Del Shores: it's truly the movie. And, and Bette Midler was attached to it for a while. Cher wanted to do it for a while. Uh, you know, it came close. Never got made. So I, I wouldn't mind revisiting that.

Patrick Evans: Who would you attach to it now?

Del Shores: If you could? Who's your dream get? Hmm. Maybe Lily Tomlin or, uh, always wanted to work with Sissy.

Spacey.

Randy Florence: Yeah. Lily's gonna be here in six months. Yes, she is.

Del Shores: I've, I've, I've met 'em both. I mean, you know, Sissy's more of a friend than Lily. I've met Lily through Leslie, but, um, Sissy's husband directed my first movie. So, you

Patrick Evans: know, there's, I interviewed Sissy Spacek, [00:43:00] mid 30 plus years ago. She was the, uh, grand Marshall of the Charlottesville, Virginia Film Festival.

Is that right? Yes. She, she's she rising the

Randy Florence: lead car waving to everybody. It was

Patrick Evans: weird that they called it the Grand Marshal. It was an odd title for a film festival, but she was delightful. She was, she was really terrific. She's down to earth. Yeah, she was super down to earth. Yeah. I love

Del Shores: her.

Randy Florence: Is there anybody that you haven't worked with yet that you just haven't burning?

Designy? Cc's number

Del Shores: one. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I got to work with Whoopi finally, so that was, that was kind of amazing. Uh, but yeah, there's, there's a, there's a, a, a good list. I mean, you know, she got a little bit politically weird for me, but I adore Susan Sarandon. Yeah. And her work and her body of work. Um, and her body.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, back in Bull Durham, that was, how sexy was she in Bull Durham? Oh, she's

Randy Florence: pretty sexy. A bombshell. But, um, of course Kevin Kosner was pretty sexy in it too, so,

Del Shores: and, and [00:44:00] Timothy Robbins and Tim Robbins. Yeah, Tim Robbins was great. I think he was really supposed to be the heartthrob,

Randy Florence: the manager of the baseball team.

I still think about him.

Del Shores: Uh, anyway, but, uh, do we need to pause a moment? You need a cigarette. What do you need? A minute. But, you know, honestly, I'm, uh, I always go to females because actresses Jean Smart lately just doing such brilliant work. Oh, I really feel like he, I wanna make a prediction right now.

Jean Smart has won like, what, 14 Emmys. After hacks is over. She's gonna get the role that Winsor and Oscar. I feel that Gene Smart is one of our greatest actresses. Um, she

Randy Florence: is so good in that show. Oh my. She's unbelievable

Patrick Evans: in that show. I feel I love it so much. Super lucky. I was actually in a Jean Smart movie.

Jean Smart did a film right here in Palm Springs with William Shatner and Christopher Lloyd called Senior Moment and Jean Smart. Oh yeah. Jean Smart played the romantic interest of William Shatner.

Del Shores: Well, I was in mommy in Me with Jean [00:45:00] Smart with my daughter Rebecca, 35 years ago. Oh my goodness. So she and her husband.

Uh, yeah, there's, there's, I've been very, very fortunate to work with some amazing people, but, uh, you know, I'm, I'm a fan of. So many more. Do people keep throwing projects at you? Uh, not as much as I wish they would. No. They, they throw projects at me, but they never have the money to make up. There's, there's no cash behind.

Great. You should

Patrick Evans: do this. Yeah. Go find, go find the funds. They're like

Del Shores: the, the projects that I get offered or like, and can you raise the money? Right. And I'm like, and, and

Randy Florence: is that really, I mean, is that the single hardest job of putting together any of these projects? It is, is

Del Shores: finding the cash. It is a very difficult thing to do.

And, uh, I will not do it for anybody but my own work. Right. That I'm that selfish.

Patrick Evans: Now, how much writing do you still get to do?

Del Shores: You know what? I, I don't. I, I used to write daily [00:46:00] and I don't write daily anymore. Uh, I write when I have something to say. I. And I don't search for things to say. I let things come to me.

I have a new play that opens in Birmingham, uh, in, uh, February called the Recipe Box. And that was one of those things where I'm just, I'm down teaching in, uh, in, in Nish, Louisiana, and I observed something and it resonated with me and a play came out of it. So that's how I write these days.

Randy Florence: What, what's your process?

Do you have a specific place that you sit a I do, yeah.

Del Shores: I sit, uh, mainly on the sofa with a legal pad and, uh, a pencil. And you've always rewrite it? Yeah. Wow. Wow. I write long hand. I feel like that that is something I don't have to think about. I have to worry about, you know, the keys on the, I do the rewriting on the computer.

Randy Florence: Okay.

Del Shores: But I do the, I have a [00:47:00] huge, rewriting. Rewriting is much more of my career than writing. Really? Yeah. I, I, I write the, the first draft and then I just keep working and working and working.

Randy Florence: Anything that you finished the first time and thought it's perfect? No. No.

Del Shores: Scenes yes. Like the brother boy scene and Sordid lives.

I wrote that in about 48 hours. I called Leslie and I read it from start to finish. He ad-libbed a couple of things as I was reading it and I added that and it pretty much stayed the same.

Randy Florence: Ever had any major disagreements with an actor on the way they were doing something and the way you wanted it done?

Del Shores: Yes. Yeah. Something you can

Randy Florence: share?

Del Shores: Sure. Yeah, because he's dead now. Uh, not Leslie. Uh, Leslie and I, I mean, I always, the reason that one of the reasons that Leslie and I were so great together is he heard everything the way I heard it and beyond. I mean, you know, when I [00:48:00] wrote Okay and Sordid lives, he said, okay, that was him.

Um, but there was an actor, and I love and adored him. He was his name, uh, was Glenn Shaddock. You all remember him using Beetlejuice? Uh, he was sort of the, uh, interior designer, the big queen. Oh, the big guy. Yeah. Yeah. And Leslie actually introduced me to me. Him and he, Leslie, got a movie and left sort of, uh, I mean sissies for a while.

And Glenn stepped in and I, as a director, I believe in line readings. If you're not getting the line, the way I hear it, I'm gonna tell you how to say it. And Glenn had a very different theory about that. He, and so I started to tell, give him a line reading, and he said, uh, no Uhuh, no. Whoa. I do not take line readings.

And I said, wow. Well, if you work for me, you will, and

Randy Florence: you do

Del Shores: work for me. And, and so I've, I've always taught my actors, when I teach acting, I say, you know, you can have your [00:49:00] philosophy, you can have your, your way of working. You know, I, I, you know, I do sense memory, I do whatever, you know, uh, substitution, you can do whatever you want.

But if a director tells you to do something else, you are working for them. And you need to figure out in your craft, in your process how to adapt to their, their style as well. And, um. I'm not, uh, I'm not without opinions. There's a shock. Comes as a great shock to all of us.

Randy Florence: It kinda seems like if you've written it and you're directing it, maybe your opinion counts.

I, I

Patrick Evans: think I know what I want. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And your tracker of success would lead one to believe, eh, let's go with his idea. Yeah, I think we're gonna go with that.

Del Shores: But I love a, I love a good actor. I love, you know, Bo Bridges was, I've worked with Bo three times actually, uh, people know about too, but I worked on a, a, a television show.

I called [00:50:00] maximum Bob. He actually got me that gig. And, but anyway, Bo is very method. I mean, he writes down, uh, you know, what kinda watch GW would wear. Wow. What, what the, the childhood experience g gw with, when did he meet? No Leada. And my, my theory about acting as a director is I go, I don't care how you get there.

I just want you to get there. And so Bo has this meeting with me and his co-star. He has this legal pad with all these things written down. We were doing Sordid lives. And so it's me and Delta Burke and Beau Bridges, and. He's going in GW, you know, met Lolita in eighth grade. Uh, she was in eighth grade and he was a sophomore in high school, and then blah, blah, you know, and he's just going on and on all this detail, and Delta's just like a, uh, oh, oh, well I didn't think about that.

And, [00:51:00] and so at the end he goes, Dale, does that, does that coincide with all of your, your thoughts on gw? And I go, yeah, well, that, that all works really well for me. And he, but that has

Randy Florence: to feel pretty good as a director to understand how lined up they are. Oh, with your

Del Shores: vision and how thorough he was. Yeah.

And well, he gave it more, more than you, I

Patrick Evans: think that's right. Ever put

Del Shores: into that? Yeah. I didn't, you know, he, he knew when the first time he jacked off, I mean, he was like so detailed. And then Delta, he said, Delta, does that conflict with anything that you've done with your work? And she said, oh, Bo honey, I just saved the lines and hope for the best.

That's fantastic. So good boy. Her best was great. Oh man. I

Randy Florence: had a big major crush on her for,

Del Shores: yeah.

Randy Florence: Yeah, just thought I, you also had a

Patrick Evans: major crush on the manager from Bull Durham. I did I a lot That guy messages from you. Randy. [00:52:00]

Del Shores: Delta's still my buddy. We still talk. We, I, I, I probably should call her on the way out of here.

She, she's, she's living in Florida now. She's, she's a really sweet, beautiful, does she still work? Uh, she, shes not to, I mean her, her husband, Gerald McCraney Mack, we call him. He, he works. A lot.

Patrick Evans: He's always been one of my favorite. I feel like what you see on the screen is kind of who he is. He's very much that may just, you know, he's one of those like you, you see people, you think, man, I'd like to grab a beer with that guy.

Del Shores: Yeah.

Patrick Evans: He strikes me as that kind of guy.

Del Shores: He's one of my favorite Republicans, both of them. Yeah. Delta's a Republican. I don't think she keeps up that much, you know? Yeah. She's not that

Randy Florence: dialed into where they are right now. Probably not. Yeah.

Del Shores: Uh, I adore her. So

Randy Florence: what's coming up next?

Del Shores: Uh, well, you're

Randy Florence: moving to Palm Springs.

Del Shores: I'm mo uh, yeah, a big move. My grandson is coming in a few, a few weeks. That's [00:53:00] exciting. And then, uh, now where

Patrick Evans: do your, where, where is your grandson? Where, where are your kids? My, my

Del Shores: daughter Caroline lives in San Francisco. My daughter Rebecca lives in LA and so Rebecca and I are getting in the car and driving up there and staying for a week for the birth of, uh, the child.

And then, um, I have, uh, the recipe box, my new play opening in, uh, February in Birmingham. It's going to probably have a Tri-City premier and we're working, we're working out the details of the other two cities. And, uh, I have a, I have a, I do have a project I'm working on that I can't talk about quite yet, but it's gonna be very exciting for those.

Randy Florence: Does it involve. Podcast hosts.

Del Shores: Yeah, it does. Like, oh, thank God. It's, it's a, a straight guy that's a podcast host and the other one who had a crush on Delta Burke, but he also had a baseball, but also crush on Tim Robbins. And there's a lot you can do with that character. And somehow they fall in love with the, the control guy.

Uh, it's a whole [00:54:00] threesome. It's very detailed. I'm gonna

Patrick Evans: have to talk about the casting. I have to talk about the casting. Uh, Randy asked all these questions because he is, he continues to improve his craft as a thespian. He's taking acting. Do you know, uh, Terry Ray? Yeah, of course. Yes. So he is been taking acting with Terry, and he and Randy and I are gonna do an improv class.

Oh, I love that. Yeah. That, that class is gonna be in trouble. I love that. I suspect we'll be thrown out by week

Del Shores: three. Well, when y'all, I'm giving us three weeks. When y'all get to the showcase level, please invite me and I'll come and, um, judge you. Oh, dear God,

Randy Florence: I feel judged already. I feel pretty judged. No, no, the way he said that.

The way he said, like, I mean, celebrate your work. Yes, yes.

John McMullen: How can people support the foundation?

Del Shores: Just go to delshoresfoundation.org. And you can see what we do and, um, and celebrate with us and we appreciate. I always say I don't, we're a family. The Del Shores [00:55:00] Foundation is a family. We have so much support here in the valley.

Uh, every year we have these house parties and, uh, Melissa Morgan hosted it with John Monaghan last year, and we just have beautiful people here who support our work. So

Randy Florence: you, you've got an amazing body of work. Uh, so first of all, congratulations. All of that thought guys say body. I did. I was really nervous.

I was worried where that was going. I was, I still thinking Delta, but when I'm talking about the match

Del Shores: manager, I'll get back to you. But thank you Randy. I appreciate it. No, seriously, thank you very much. I. I many times make fun of instead of accept a compliment. And, and I I thank you for that. Well, it's

Randy Florence: funny you say that.

We, we had a guest on recently the, uh, Dave Karger, uh, yeah. The classic, classic, classic movie Turner. Classic movie Classic. And he was telling a story about where, what people did with their Oscar statues. Mm. And he mentioned that Dustin Hoffman. Didn't feel comfortable putting his out, didn't like showing it to people and had it had to go through [00:56:00] years of therapy before he felt comfortable doing that.

Did any of that pertain to you as you were growing up, that you didn't feel comfortable with the success?

Del Shores: Yeah, I think, um, he there, back to the imposter syndrome. 'cause I started, um, where I met Rona Newton John actually Olivia's sister was in Joan Darling's acting class. And there were such ridiculously talented people in that class.

And, uh, there were, there were some people that were already famous. Anna Archer was in that class. George Gaines was in that class. I remember one, uh, session Steven Spielberg came into the class. Oh man. To just, I've heard of him. Yeah. He, he would, he just wanted to know how to direct actors better. So he just sat there and watched.

But um, there were so many actors that I could name their names right now, and I don't know what happened to them. And you would go, wow, they're gonna make it. They're gonna be so huge. And so. [00:57:00] Your success is, is, is different than maybe you even thought it would be, or, or, or maybe you thought it would be bigger at some point, but it wasn't, or whatever.

I mean, it's, it's, it's all, uh, it's all a part of the journey and, um, I, I know I'm answering this in a weird way, but the way I was able to accept, and that's why I paused when, when you and I, I wanted to accept that compliment instead of like, make a joke about it. Yeah. Is I went to, um, an acting class probably a couple of years, maybe more.

My friend Karen Austin, who's a great actress. Uh, she was on the first season of night court and did a lot of great work. And I remember I, uh, had gotten a green light on my movie Blues for Will Dean that was with Beth Gran and Octavia Spencer, Debbie Holiday, and David C Yeah. And, um, I. They asked [00:58:00] for this, this part of the class, what were your blessings this week?

And she said, I wasn't a part of the class. And she said, Del, come up and tell 'em I know that something happened. And I said, oh, 'cause yeah, I didn't, I, so I did, and then I remember everybody started applauding and I did this. And she said, oh, that's not allowed here. Because you're taking, you put a wall up, you're taking away the gift that they're giving you.

Yeah. You're going, I don't want your gift.

Randy Florence: Wow.

Del Shores: So to accept the compliment and to go. Okay. Thank you. Do you still

Randy Florence: struggle with that?

Del Shores: I do. I think we all do because we,

Randy Florence: yeah. It's a hard thing.

Del Shores: Well, you were, you grew up in the church. We were taught humility. Yes. You know, humble, be humble. Don't be that person with a lot of pride.

But, um, so yeah, it's, it's part of. Learning. Yeah, always learning and growing.

Randy Florence: I heard Jason Bateman say recently, uh, as a [00:59:00] director, that he tells his actors three things on the first day. Be on time, know your lines, and don't be a dick. Is there anything that you say to your people on the first day of a shooting as to how you want things to go?

Del Shores: I, I tell my actors very much some of that same, I say, be prepared. If you think you're prepared, be over prepared. Because when all of these elements come in, when you have the boom, when you have the camera coming, it's not just me and you talking anymore. And you think about these, we were talking about Jean Smart, all the brilliant work that she does.

Well think about that with all of these people around her. And you have to be so prepared, and I agree with Jason Bateman. I don't work with assholes anymore. Yeah. Yeah. I've worked with a lot of assholes in my career and if I, if I have any inkling that someone is an asshole, I. [01:00:00] I'm not gonna work with him.

Patrick Evans: Okay. Dish the dirt. Before we go, who is this? Give us some names of your people you won't work with anymore.

Del Shores: Oh, I love this stuff. I would never judge Reinhold. Uh, Thomas Hayden church was not exactly really nice. He

Randy Florence: seems like he could be a little Well, why does that difficult, you know,

Del Shores: you think about people like, you think about judge, you think about, I mean, Tommy, I, I, I loved Tommy.

I loved it. We worked on Ned and Stacey together, but he wasn't kind to Deborah messing. He was, he was awful to her, really? And I, I, I look at those people who are rude, who are nasty to those people that they perceived. I don't think of people as underlings. Yeah. I don't think of the assistant costumer who's giving you a robe or whatever that you have to, like, judge had thought that he could yell at people.

Or, or the, or the dp, I worked with him twice and it was two times, uh, too many. Um, he was mean to Sandy Csel, the dp, on, on, on, um, [01:01:00] dad, the angel in me. And I remember he came, he came up to me at the end of that shoot and he said, probably, uh, you know, I'm saying things I probably shouldn't, but I don't give a fuck at this point in my life.

Um, I, he said, I hope we can work together again. And I said, judge, I would rather work the, the drive-through window at El Polio Loco, asking people if they want corner flower tortillas than to work with you again, because you are a horrible human being. To other people. And then later on he sent me an apology, you know?

Wow. He said that he had gotten some help and he had struggled with some mental stuff and, and he sent me an apology. But, um, yeah, there's, there are people who treated it. It, for me, it's like, it's like when you go out to dinner with someone and someone's rude with the waiter. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's a dick.

Patrick Evans: Right. It you, you learn a lot about people in the way that they treat other people. That's right. Don't pay attention to how I treat Randy, but I try to treat everybody else [01:02:00] really nicely.

Del Shores: So, but it's a good, it's a good theory. Jason. Jason Bateman was right. Yeah.

Patrick Evans: Yeah. I like that. Del, thank you for, well, first of all.

I love brutal honesty and it makes for a great podcast. Yeah. You tell great stories and this has been a delight. It really has. When, when this next project that I know that you couldn't talk about, when that comes to fruition, will you come back?

Del Shores: I'll, I'll come and announce it. Alright. Thank you so much.

Those people here are gonna be very excited about it. Can't wait. Alright.

Patrick Evans: That's more excited that you're gonna be a, a resident here. Yes, definitely. Palm Springs feels like we have a little bit of ownership Yes. Of you. That's right. You know, because of, don't do anything

Randy Florence: without asking first.

Del Shores: Yeah. By the way, I'm filming an episode of House Hunter this weekend.

Seriously? Yeah. With my, my, my pursuit of finding the right place. Oh, my wife

Randy Florence: is gonna love that.

Del Shores: Yeah. Yeah. Phenomenal. So, alright. You're a

Randy Florence: terrific guest. Thank you so much. Alright. Thanks for having me, Randy. You're terrific. This was a great, uh, great show. We got to talk about some important things we need to bring in

Patrick Evans: guests that are producing work that may be able to hire you.

Randy Florence: You know, Hey, [01:03:00] whatever happens, I am part of the number one podcast in the Coachella ballot.

Patrick Evans: There we go. Absolutely. And so is John McMullen our producer, and so are you all of our listeners. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. Our thanks to Skip Paige. Our thanks to the McCallum Theatre, our presenting sponsor.

Once again, thanks to Del Shores, a phenomenal guest and thank you for listening to Big Conversations, Little Bar will be back next week with another episode.