Track 2: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Bill,

Track 2: back again with another film discussion from the West.

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Track 2: that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.

Track 2: This week on Left to the Projector, we won't be discussing any Academy Award-winning

Track 2: film or something you can tell your film bros you just heard about.

Track 2: Instead, we'll be talking about Black Panther and Black Panther 2, Wakanda Forever.

Track 2: Both films are directed by Ryan Coogler, who turned around three years after

Track 2: the second of these films and made the record-nominated film, Sinners.

Track 2: Of course, this film does star Chadwick Boseman, first in piece, Michael B.

Track 2: Jordan, Angela Bassett, Lupita Nyong'o, Daniel Guerra, Martin Freeman, and many more.

Track 2: The second stars Angela Bassett, Leticia Wright, Danai Gurira, among others.

Track 2: Our guest today is Brianna Cox, returning friend of the show,

Track 2: previously from our A Girl Walks Home Alone at Night episode.

Track 2: Brianna is a screenwriter and author of an upcoming book, Indigent,

Track 2: which releases in March 2026.

Track 2: Of course, as always, my co-host, Evan.

Track 2: Ward is still tracking down Gareth Edwards. Welcome to the show, Brianna.

Track 3: Yeah, thank you for having me on again. Yeah, I don't want to say I'm excited

Track 3: to talk about this one, but it will be interesting.

Track 2: We're going to have fun. We're going to have fun.

Track 2: We chose this partially to—there's a lot going on in the world,

Track 2: and, you know, sometimes we want to talk about things just to shit talk them,

Track 2: and that's partially why we chose these today.

Track 2: To talk about some things.

Track 1: Yeah and for people who don't maybe forgot the

Track 1: first one came out in 2018 and then the second

Track 1: one four years later in 2022 and as

Track 1: people obviously know they're part of the marvel cinematic

Track 1: universe which i think now

Track 1: has got to be up to like mid 40s in terms of

Track 1: total numbers and the one thing i'm curious for both of you too and maybe thinking

Track 1: about the first one especially it was probably it was a big deal when it came

Track 1: out even though there had been a bunch of other marvel movies it broke records

Track 1: i think it made back its budget like the opening weekend and the budget was

Track 1: 200 million dollars so you could see how well the film did,

Track 1: i'm just sort of like think about when you saw it the first time and you know

Track 1: obviously we'll get into the politics of it and what is and isn't good about

Track 1: it perhaps but just wondering like as a cultural phenomenon and like your memory of it like was it,

Track 1: Like, do you look back on it fondly?

Track 2: Uh, Brianna, I'm leaving this to you to start.

Track 3: Yeah. I feel like for me, I, yeah, I've been like more and more vindicated with

Track 3: how I feel about this movie.

Track 3: The more time has passed because I watched it like back in 2018 and like,

Track 3: I kind of just thought it was like, okay.

Track 3: And kind of mid to begin with. And I felt very bad about that because it was

Track 3: a very like culturally important movie and a very relevant movie.

Track 3: And I was kind of just sitting there like, oh, am I just a pretentious film

Track 3: bro who like watched too many Hiroshi Tejikahara movies? And I just like can't enjoy a fun movie now.

Track 3: Is that the only reason why I'm disliking this?

Track 3: And then like, what, like 10, 9 months later at the end of the year,

Track 3: like Into the Spider-Verse came out. And I loved that movie.

Track 3: So I was like, all right, this isn't just me having superhero fatigue.

Track 3: This isn't just me like not wanting another like blockbuster superhero movie

Track 3: because like I love this other example.

Track 3: And then the second Black Panther movie came out and I also disliked that one.

Track 3: And he's like, oh, maybe now it's superhero fatigue.

Track 3: And then the second Spider-Verse movie came out and I loved that one as well.

Track 2: I'm struggling with the fact that Into the Spider-Verse came out in 2018.

Track 3: Yeah, it was. I looked that up to see the timeline, and it's crazy, actually.

Track 3: And I was trying to just parse out, why do I not like these movies?

Track 3: Do I just have a weird grudge against Ryan Coogler, where his second movie wasn't

Track 3: as good as I wanted it to be, so now I just don't like his stuff on principle?

Track 3: But then sinners came out last year and that's like

Track 3: an immaculate movie and it's also like a

Track 3: speculative fiction four quadrants big budget

Track 3: blockbuster movie with a majority black cast that came

Track 3: out in like the first quarter of the year that like

Track 3: broke records and was very culturally important so i

Track 3: don't think i'm being a stick in the mud now when i say i don't like black panther

Track 3: just with all of that stuff that happened afterwards because like yeah sinners

Track 3: is awesome I'm making up for not liking Black Panther by obsessing over that

Track 3: movie and thinking it's amazing.

Track 2: You know, it definitely did feel like, to be fair, when I saw this the first

Track 2: time, I did really enjoy it.

Track 2: I do think, even at the beginning, I was like, there are aspects of this that

Track 2: take away from it, that take it from what I thought it could have been.

Track 2: And it was not, you know, there are detractions in the original movie,

Track 2: but it definitely felt like you couldn't talk bad about this movie.

Track 2: This movie was fucking like, it just, it was crazy.

Track 2: Cultural bombshell the wakanda forever

Track 2: thing before the second movie you know like all

Track 2: of that it was everywhere you couldn't you couldn't say boo about this movie

Track 2: people loved this and it got high praise but as time has gone by i definitely

Track 2: have come to see more and more of its flaws,

Track 2: but especially the second movie, which I absolutely despise,

Track 2: which I really feel like taint,

Track 2: even taints, whatever positives there were about this movie,

Track 2: I feel like the second movie almost detracts from them, but it's also really

Track 2: bittersweet because for I think the, the people that made it,

Track 2: because having just like, I literally just finished rewatching it like three,

Track 2: like two or three hours ago that the second movie is clearly.

Track 2: Clearly like,

Track 2: an emotional endeavor for everyone involved about the loss of chadwick boseman like that movie is,

Track 2: partly a true like a part of

Track 2: the grieving process you you could tell the people involved in this that was

Track 2: part of their grieving process making that movie and i don't know whether that

Track 2: was a good thing or a bad thing but seeing it again and thinking about that

Track 2: i'm like i almost feel bad talking shit about this that's like going to someone's

Track 2: funeral and being like talking to like Like, they're, like,

Track 2: dead, like, you know, like, they're living, like, relatively,

Track 2: like, listen, man, you're not crying right away.

Track 1: I remember seeing the first one and walking out of the theater being like,

Track 1: that was, you know, kind of how I feel.

Track 1: I mean, most of the MCU movies now are just like, I guess that was a movie.

Track 1: Like, it was fine. It exists. It's fine.

Track 1: But I remember walking out of Black Panther being like, that was amazing. Like, you know, so cool.

Track 1: And it had, like, you know, a decent underlying message, although it wasn't perfect.

Track 1: And then in the times that I've seen it since

Track 1: then I just sort of think to myself one I was kind of wrong at the time being

Track 1: like it wasn't as good as I remember it but I think my memory of it being so

Track 1: good was just like the atmosphere the theater is completely full everyone was

Track 1: really hyped up and so it was more so the,

Track 1: everything around it that made it good, in quotes, than it was so much like

Track 1: that the movie itself was.

Track 1: And so, unlike you, Brianna, I definitely wasn't critical of it at the time.

Track 1: I can admit my wrong there.

Track 1: And watching it now, I just think about how there are potentially great messages

Track 1: to it that are undermined by other aspects of it that just,

Track 1: I don't know if it's a result of it just being an MCU movie and there's only

Track 1: so much good messaging they can really impart,

Track 1: especially when you have military presidents and the CIA is in it and all this stuff.

Track 1: So we can talk about the, you know, like what the issues we have with it or

Track 1: like the kind of the crux of it and then maybe go into some more of it.

Track 1: But I don't know, like Brianna, like what you, when you saw it then.

Track 2: I want to hear that. I want to hear Brianna's like initial takeaway because

Track 2: she came away from it like, this is bad.

Track 2: I want to know, like, I want to hear that.

Track 1: What ostracized you from your community?

Track 3: I know there was there was one person i told that i thought this was made when

Track 3: it came out and like no one else because.

Track 2: That's what it was like right it was like people fucking love this movie.

Track 3: Yeah it was like i remember one

Track 3: of the things i said coming out of it

Track 3: was like wow this was probably a really good treatment

Track 3: and like not a very good script

Track 3: because like all of the things that i

Track 3: dislike about the movie like i

Track 3: blame firmly like it

Track 3: being an mcu or disney production because like once again ryan coogler made

Track 3: fruitvale station first he made sinners like seven eight years later like he

Track 3: knows what he's doing thematically like he can make something that is like coherent in that way.

Track 3: And just my main issue with the first Black Panther is that like all of the

Track 3: coherence it could have had thematically is undermined by like it needing to fit into the MCEU.

Track 3: Where it's like, oh, it has to like have this certain structure.

Track 3: It has to have this certain tone.

Track 3: And like, yeah, I get it. Like if I was in charge of the Marvel Cinematic Universe,

Track 3: I would also want people to know that they're watching a Marvel movie.

Track 3: Like I would also want it to be consistent so that like people get that it's

Track 3: like one continuous story.

Track 3: But also like the themes

Track 3: and content of black panther is like so antithetical

Track 3: to most of the other marvel movies that

Track 3: like trying to fit it in to that

Track 3: like structure to make sure it fits in with

Track 3: the other films is like trying to square

Track 3: a circle and i just felt like i was watching a movie where ryan kugler was trying

Track 3: to square a circle for like two hours and that was like my main takeaway like

Track 3: i like what ryan is trying to do that marvel presumably won't let him do to the fullest extent i.

Track 2: Was more appreciative of the positive aspects of it when it

Track 2: first but like as time has gone by like no you're you're absolutely right it's

Track 2: impossible to look away from those things like the shoehorning of martin freeman's

Track 2: car martin freeman's character represents basically everything that is wrong

Track 2: in that movie and like the fact that like obviously like Disney as a corporation had,

Track 2: you know, felt the need, like, you know,

Track 2: It was required of them, basically, I guess, to make sure that it fits certain

Track 2: things and it fit a certain narrative.

Track 2: And that narrative is that, you know, actually imperialism is okay sometimes

Track 2: if the right person does it.

Track 3: It's like there are good white people who are cool and fun and they're allowed

Track 3: into the cookout and their name is Martin Freeman.

Track 3: And imperialism is cool sometimes. in that dream.

Track 2: Not all CIA agents are bad. Like, no, actually they are. They're all bad.

Track 1: Yeah. My first note that I wrote, so I wrote like notes by in a notebook when

Track 1: I watched the movie, but then I wrote just like a couple down.

Track 1: And the first one I wrote was, it could have been a real good story of anti-imperialism

Track 1: and colonialism, but then it's undercut by the collaboration with the CIA.

Track 1: And I think it's impossible.

Track 1: I mean, I bet if you went through every single Marvel movie, they are...

Track 1: The CIA or the FBI or the U.S.

Track 1: Government or Avengers or S.H.I.E.L.D. or whatever code you want to give to

Track 1: the good guys of America in a positive light.

Track 1: They're never viewed in a negative way.

Track 1: And in this one, you have, you know, the Wakanda as perhaps having this message

Track 1: at the beginning of, you know, it's this place in Africa that's actually rich.

Track 1: Like you think about all the exploitation of africa in the real world and you

Track 1: know africa is rich it's just that america and the west steals this wealth from

Track 1: them and like they could have this wealth but you know it's um it's okay it's

Track 1: the cia and the u.s eventually gets to you know do a little little uh imperialism for a treat.

Track 3: Yeah there was like kind of like the ghost of

Track 3: the winter soldier movie is like hanging over

Track 3: black panther the entire time i saw it the first time

Track 3: where like they got away with doing way

Track 3: more critical commentary than i think anyone would let kugler do so like winter

Track 3: soldier was the closest they ever got to being like maybe government entities

Track 3: aren't all like cool superhero adjacent people which yeah black panther was not allowed to do it.

Track 2: Was still in the end the winter soldier it still was, it's just some bad apples.

Track 2: The message still was, fundamentally, these systems are okay.

Track 2: That was just some bad apples. There are some bad actors.

Track 2: But overall, S.H.I.E.L.D. is fine. It's just there were some bad people.

Track 2: Some bad people got in there.

Track 1: I mean, I know we jumped right into the movie. Just-

Track 1: very very briefly for maybe someone who

Track 1: hasn't seen this since 2018 or like you're one of the few people

Track 1: who hasn't seen this movie essentially they're

Track 1: introducing you to the country

Track 1: of wakanda as this place that has a metal

Track 1: that's more rare and only until movie

Track 1: number two is the only country in place that has vibranium

Track 1: and it's enabling them to create technology that

Track 1: is greater than anyone in the world and they're

Track 1: able to put a shield around their country essentially so the

Track 1: world thinks they're this poor african farming country

Track 1: when in fact they're like the most technologically advanced country on earth

Track 1: and we have the death of the king they're sort of the takeover or the the the

Track 1: uh handing over to chadwick boseman as the black panther t'challa and through a sort of, you know,

Track 1: a fighting, what's the term?

Track 2: Challenge.

Track 1: A challenging scenario where someone else in another one of the tribes can challenge,

Track 1: and if they continue and they're victorious, then, you know, he becomes the king.

Track 1: And really, yeah, I don't know, I feel like the first...

Track 1: 30 minutes of the movie you could maybe still kind of see him being like this

Track 1: is still has a decent enough message but i feel like it's quickly undercut by

Track 1: once he becomes king and we learn,

Track 1: i'll give one of like the quotes that i think kind of gives it away is we learn

Track 1: a little bit later that the michael b jordan character is uh killmonger and

Track 1: he is sort of eventually challenges him for the throne later on.

Track 1: And what he wants to do is actually share this wealth or this technology with

Track 1: all the revolutionary movements around the world to overthrow the colonizer,

Track 1: which would be a good thing.

Track 1: And one of the lines that T'Challa says in it that I think speaks to a lot of

Track 1: this is he says, we could lose our way of life.

Track 1: And he says this to his mother, I believe, when they're talking about the possibility of sharing this.

Track 1: And to me, that's like the super liberal message that's under like undercuts

Track 1: everything where god forbid we would like have socialism because like i might lose my way of life.

Track 3: Yeah that's like the weird thing about the film

Track 3: messaging wise because like because i don't

Track 3: like hate this movie i know i sound like i hate this movie but

Track 3: like i have a love-hate relationship with it where i love

Track 3: that it is like firmly 100 like

Track 3: afrofuturism and like it served

Track 3: as like a very strong introduction to the concept

Track 3: of afrofuturism there's like oh we're

Track 3: showing like african diaspora people or black diaspora people like interacting

Track 3: with technology in ways that are like seemingly incongruous and like we're interrogating

Track 3: the relationship that group of people has had to technology in history and the

Track 3: current time and into the future.

Track 3: And like it did really interesting things where it's like interrogating the idea of like,

Track 3: no, Africa actually is like this very advanced country that we just have historicized

Track 3: and kind of like decided is like more, quote unquote,

Track 3: savage and underdeveloped when in reality they have all of this cool stuff.

Track 3: Stuff and just like interrogating that idea of

Track 3: what we consider to be like a quote-unquote advanced

Track 3: society in relation to blackness but

Track 3: then it does weird things where they're like hyper traditionalistic

Track 3: in like a weird patriarchal way it's like i don't i think you guys losing your

Track 3: traditions would be kind of okay but i don't think you should have a king where

Track 3: the person can just beat up your king and become a king and that's considered

Track 3: like a cool way to rule your advanced country,

Track 3: so it's like so thematically confused that way.

Track 2: It really is like, it's such a, like, it's a both a forward thinking and like

Track 2: wanting to like portray the, you know, the people in the culture and, you know,

Track 2: and the country as being futuristic.

Track 2: You know, like you said, it's Afrofuturist, which is, it's, and it's awesome

Track 2: the way they present it, the aesthetics,

Track 2: the, the, the, the seamlessness, which that he really does present very traditional, you know, um,

Track 2: well, the culture, you know, the dance and costume, costume,

Track 2: but like traditional attire with that futuristic stuff at the same time is beautiful.

Track 2: Full but at the same time it's like i'm like i don't mean to slight ryan coogler but like.

Track 2: It's i feel like it's still got that like and i

Track 2: don't know whether it was his decision or whether it was somebody else or

Track 2: whether it was taken from the comic because i never really read black panther

Track 2: i wasn't like a marvel i'm not a huge marvel fan that like

Track 2: the western thing it's like you know what african country

Track 2: is like yeah you know what they can get as far advanced they're

Track 2: still gonna they're still gonna resort to you know what it's it's

Track 2: a king and one guy could beat up the other guy and became the king it

Track 2: still feels so like i mean really i mean for black

Track 2: people like it feels racist and it feels backwards

Track 2: and like paternalistic in its like presentation it's like look at look these

Track 2: people no matter how no matter how far advanced they're still gonna beat each

Track 2: other up and it just it takes away from like any it's like two steps forward ten steps back it.

Track 3: Every time it's like matriarchal but also

Track 3: it's not and it's super advanced but also

Track 3: they still use spears for combat and

Track 3: it's like it's very strange where it's like i get what you're trying to do but

Track 3: it always seems to go back to like what you were saying where like it's through

Track 3: the gaze of what a white person in America thinks Africa is.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: And then they're just that, but also they're cyberpunk now.

Track 3: And like, I really wish it was what black people or what Africans think cyberpunk is.

Track 2: Yeah, totally.

Track 1: To me, that's the result of, I think, if Coogler could make this movie outside

Track 1: of Marvel and Disney, I think it would want a different film.

Track 1: But Disney has to sell their movies to the whitest audience.

Track 1: Not the whitest, also the whitest, but also the whitest, right, across the world.

Track 1: So the way they have to create these movies is palatable to everyone,

Track 1: and I think it suffers from that.

Track 1: Like, there's another line that I think is also, like, an indictment of it is

Track 1: when we learn, like, what the king had done, you know, as to,

Track 1: you know, killing his own brother back in the United States,

Track 1: I think he says it's, or someone says it, it's hard for a good man to be king.

Track 1: And, like, I feel like the idea of, like, oh the king not being actually a good

Track 1: person and all of the things again sort of undercuts the message where Wakanda

Track 1: is trying to be this new just place but um,

Track 1: I'm not sure where I was going with that exactly. I don't know.

Track 1: It's, again, undercutting what it's trying to be.

Track 1: And I like to try and not blame Ryan Coogler directly. I think he made what

Track 1: he was able to. He did what he could.

Track 3: Yeah, like, you know, Ryan Coogler is anti-colonialism because he made Sinners

Track 3: and he had way more creative control over that one.

Track 3: So, like, I'm not blaming him as a writer or director.

Track 3: I just think he was on a leash with the studio where, like, I'm glad he is making

Track 3: his own stuff now because that being the biggest budget Ryan Coogler joints

Track 3: people can get would be very unfortunate. Yeah.

Track 3: But I do think it is like one of the better films that you could watch from Marvel still.

Track 3: So it's one of those relative questions.

Track 2: Totally. I mean, I feel like you can see the points of the movie as you're watching it.

Track 2: You can actually pick out the parts where there has been studio oversight.

Track 2: Like you can if you go through this movie you can you could highlight scenes

Track 2: and be like oh this was a studio note this was a studio note this was this is

Track 2: coogler this is coogler like you know you could literally go through it and

Track 2: like point out like all the different points i feel like.

Track 3: Yeah and i'm looking for a specific artist who i keep thinking of um oh yeah yumbi,

Track 3: so air biumby he's cameroonian have

Track 3: you guys heard of him before um not sure

Track 3: i know he's like a black modern artist

Track 3: who like delves into afrofuturism but

Track 3: he has like this whole like setup where

Track 3: he interrogates like modern culture as seen

Track 3: through like an african lens so he

Track 3: has like this entire like not performance but

Track 3: like this entire piece where it's traditional african garb

Track 3: but it looks like the scream mask from scream

Track 3: or like the prayer where it's

Track 3: just like no africans like still exist we're still interacting with

Track 3: modern culture we're like not stagnant in

Track 3: the past the way america views africa

Track 3: and i really just wish they had him as an artistic director for the movie i

Track 3: feel like that would be awesome because he does a lot of That Afrofuturist idea

Track 3: of like interrogating how the African diaspora is viewed like temporally and

Track 3: like how we do exist in the present day and we will exist in the future.

Track 3: And like we continue interacting with cultures that aren't our own,

Track 3: but like continue preserving our own culture as well.

Track 3: Which seems to be what this movie like on a good day is trying to get across

Track 3: but just is by a lot of stuff.

Track 2: Yeah that's what that's that seems to be the attempt which like which is why

Track 2: like i do think that this like it does deserve credit to some degree for those

Track 2: things like Because, I mean, let's be honest,

Track 2: mainstream-wise, this is the mainstream American audience.

Track 2: This is the opening to that.

Track 2: This is the opportunity, this was the opportunity for the mainstream American

Track 2: audience to be exposed to that.

Track 2: It was really the first time a mainstream American audience was exposed to those concepts.

Track 2: These people were not – people that –,

Track 2: prefer like you know the people that you

Track 2: know primarily view you know movies like

Track 2: the you know like marvel cinematic movies or you know like

Track 2: mainstream blockbuster movies like out like

Track 2: they're not going to be exposed to this

Track 2: elsewhere otherwise like it i do

Track 2: think that this deserves credit for that if

Track 2: nothing else it did open that

Track 2: open an audience up to those things now i

Track 2: don't have numbers on like how many people like went out to like you know really

Track 2: like engage with that after futurism but like it was more than before this i

Track 2: have to assume because it literally wasn't available to people outside of like

Track 2: people who made it a point to seek it out.

Track 3: Let.

Track 1: Me ask you do you know a lot about books and like in this kind of thing did

Track 1: you do was there an increase of those kind of books that explored those themes

Track 1: like in the years after this and is it at all possible that they were influenced

Track 1: by this i mean this is i don't know if there's like this isn't a scientific study.

Track 3: Yeah that's a good question actually there's been like a whole debate,

Track 3: like in like literature in general

Track 3: about like the difference between african futurism

Track 3: and afro futurism and then like afro-surrealism is

Track 3: also in there and i feel like the debate got

Track 3: a lot louder after black panther first came out because we have like a bunch

Track 3: of authors who are like pretty firmly writing african futurism where like it's

Track 3: set in africa and like based in like,

Track 3: traditionally african ideas and then

Track 3: we have people doing afrofuturism where it's much more like black

Track 3: american stuff yeah and we're like trying

Track 3: to figure out how those relate to each other in a lot of ways where like i feel

Track 3: like there's a lot of non-fiction that's come out since this movie that like

Track 3: goes more into afrofuturism more than anything which is super interesting because

Track 3: like when was the idea coined it was like the 90s i think.

Track 2: Uh i think so but it.

Track 3: Might insult the internet let's see.

Track 2: It is an interesting note that it is 1993.

Track 3: Yep 1993 where we're like just starting to get the idea and like i have not

Track 3: studied it as much as i want to I feel like there's a giant overlap between

Track 3: that and Black American people loving mech anime.

Track 2: Totally.

Track 3: And that just being a catalyst for Afrofuturism, at least in the States.

Track 3: Because so many Afrofuturist things that are coming out now are pretty much

Track 3: just mech anime. And I love it.

Track 2: There's actually a really awesome, and this is African Futurist.

Track 2: Um it is an rpg a complete it's a ttrpg setting um into the motherland but it's

Track 2: specifically is african futurist and it is like really awesome um it's not big mechs yeah.

Track 3: Like for what's it called like the black panther wakanda like mini series like

Track 3: that taps way more into like cyberpunk too.

Track 2: Ironheart, which is the spinoff of the second movie.

Track 3: Yes. So there's so much like interesting...

Track 3: Multicultural things going on with specifically afrofuturism

Track 3: where it's heavily inspired by international media

Track 3: and like there's a bunch of interesting stuff going

Track 3: on that i don't think would be talked about as much had

Track 3: this movie not come out so i do appreciate this

Track 3: movie for like starting that conversation like nobody's

Track 3: gonna be like getting an intro to afrofuturism by

Track 3: watching like crumbs or like jesus

Track 3: shows you the way to the highway or whatever that movie's called and like those

Track 3: are both really cool movies they're not an intro to afro-fanturism though and

Track 3: i think this movie works as a good intro and like i've come to appreciate it

Track 3: in that way i just really hope people watch and read more after this one too totally.

Track 2: I do think it's an interesting i think it's interesting that you say that there

Track 2: was an uptick in non-fiction specifically about it which I find very interesting because that's still,

Track 2: it's siloing that concept from the mainstream public still. And it's like, is that deliberate?

Track 2: Like, is that a institutional, is that a cultural mechanism that is keeping

Track 2: it still siloed away from the general public by, it's like, okay, you know what?

Track 2: This is becoming popular, but we're, you know, through, you know,

Track 2: indirect, you know, like, you know, not like direct means, you know,

Track 2: I'm not trying to be like a conspiracy theorist. Um, but like, you know,

Track 2: Okay, we can play in this area, but you have to do it in this way because we

Track 2: don't want it to break out to the general public, really.

Track 2: I think it's a very interesting, like you said, it's mostly nonfiction.

Track 3: Yeah, it's a lot of people going back into the film and literary canon and trying

Track 3: to figure out when it first became more of a thing.

Track 3: And there's literally a short story by W.E.

Track 3: Du Bois that counts as Afrofuturism. So like it goes back a while.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: So it's a lot of people just going back and like marveling at the fact that

Track 3: black diaspora writers have been doing speculative fiction, which I love because

Track 3: I'm a black speculative fiction writer.

Track 3: But it has been like kind of academically siloed where like it's still considered very niche.

Track 3: And I guess to get more into the conspiracy theory element of it,

Track 3: the entire point of Afrofuturism is affirming the fact that Black people not

Track 3: only exist into the future, but are relevant and important.

Track 3: And people don't like to hear that a lot of the time. So now...

Track 2: That's why Star Trek, Uhuru, that was a big thing. And why it was...

Track 2: For all of his flaws, and Gene Roddenberry had many fucking flaws,

Track 2: he made it a point, and Nishan Nicholson made it a point to be like,

Track 2: you know, black people, we are in the future.

Track 2: We are part of the future. and you know like i

Track 2: am a major character you know and it is important that this character

Track 2: be represented and be portrayed and be in

Track 2: this you know show in this way and you

Track 2: know even star trek which is huge you

Track 2: know and a cultural like touch zone still fights

Track 2: against that the fact like you said people don't

Track 2: like being like oh yeah black people will exist in the future too still

Track 2: fighting against that i mean there's a new star

Track 2: trek show right now and people are all up in arms because it's too quote unquote

Track 2: woke because you know one of the characters you know because too many of the

Track 2: characters like too many characters

Track 2: are black or not white you know it's yeah constant struggle yeah.

Track 3: It's it is a struggle i'm not at the point where i'm like an afro pessimist

Track 3: i think but like Like, I'm getting there at this point.

Track 2: I've never heard that term used.

Track 3: Essentially, the idea of it is that, like, the entire concept of being black

Track 3: is synonymous with being a slave and synonymous with being inhuman to other people.

Track 3: And, like, that's the whole idea. And, like, there's just no getting out of

Track 3: it and no getting better.

Track 2: That's the way it's always presented and everything.

Track 3: So it's a very snagged philosophy. And like Afrofuturism is in a lot of ways

Track 3: the exact antithesis of that,

Track 3: where it's like depicting blackness as something independent of how other people

Track 3: view it and like independent of how like people of other races interact with

Track 3: black diaspora people, which is, again,

Track 3: why Martin Freeman's character being in this movie is obnoxious, by the way.

Track 3: And then because like we're kind of running out of time, I think,

Track 3: but I think that would also be a good segue to talk about the weird cluster

Track 3: that is the plot of the second one where like, yes,

Track 3: black diasporic people against indigenous people for some reason.

Track 3: Like, I don't know what's going on with that plot.

Track 1: Yeah, to take it to go to the second one,

Track 1: I think that probably the three of us would agree mostly that the first one

Track 1: has its moments and has potential and did more for culture probably than it

Track 1: had all rights to do as a Marvel movie.

Track 1: But then we have the second one which

Track 1: unfortunately comes on the heels of chadwick boseman's

Track 1: death and having to rewrite the film and as

Track 1: bill said earlier it feels like everyone is like grieving him

Track 1: in the film and in real life you know

Track 1: and it maybe impacts their performance angela bassett is

Track 1: incredibly she got an oscar nomination for this

Track 1: i think is the only actor to be nominated from an mcu movie in an actor category

Track 1: but the plot is nonsensical and i struggle to make it through re-watching it

Track 1: honestly i feel like i had memory hold everything that happened and i'm watching

Track 1: i'm like wait what but there's still 35 more minutes left but why yeah.

Track 3: I like to also memory hold the plot of this one.

Track 2: I re-watched this movie while aquascaping an aquarium just so i had something else to do.

Track 3: It seems like because like on one hand it's very

Track 3: impressive that they were able to completely rewrite

Track 3: a movie without the main character in it and like

Track 3: have it be somewhat coherent and like it being kind

Track 3: of like this time capsule of like the casting crew

Track 3: like grieving like a very real person who is

Track 3: very important to them i think makes this

Track 3: movie like more relevant than

Track 3: what the movie is actually about because like

Track 3: i kind of feel weird that like chad with boseman's

Track 3: like memorial movie is one where black people and like aztec coded indigenous

Track 3: people are like fighting over resources whereas that plot is like so not connected

Track 3: to the grief plot or like or like the moving into the future plot it.

Track 2: Made me so angry like this

Track 2: movie i watched this movie and i it was

Track 2: like literally it was like they were like you know what let's have

Track 2: the brown people fight each other and i'm just like i'm going

Track 2: to explode with rage what is like that

Track 2: is you were like you know what we started with the french lady and the french

Track 2: deserve zero credit for anything ever and like she was the one who was like

Track 2: basically accusing wakanda of like invading like take attacking their ship and frankly France,

Track 2: any African nation should have the right to do whatever the.

Track 3: Fuck they.

Track 2: Want to anything of yours fuck all of you fuck France and then it turned into now the the the,

Track 2: Do they ever actually give Namor's people a name as a group of people?

Track 3: I think they do like once. It starts with like a team.

Track 2: They are not, they don't even like, they barely even like give them a,

Track 2: they are just, they're just the indigenous enemy.

Track 2: And it's like this along with Killmonger is in a long line of,

Track 2: of Marvel Disney movies, making a villain that is correct.

Track 2: They're right. Like Namor is right in terms of like his, like,

Track 2: Being like, you know, these people are bad and they're going to destroy things

Track 2: and they're going to kill my people.

Track 2: Just like Killmonger was fucking right. Like, and they were like,

Track 2: well, we have this villain who is clearly actually morally correct.

Track 2: So let's have them fight Wakanda. And it's like, why?

Track 2: Why would these people fight each other? It makes zero sense.

Track 2: There's other than the fact that disney wanted people

Track 2: to fight and they can't have them fight france which is the enemy that they

Track 2: should have been fucking fighting or america better they were just fighting

Track 2: yeah like if they had just fought the people the imperialists doing the shit

Track 2: that would have made sense what.

Track 1: This almost feels like to me is this weird version of what American sort of

Track 1: elite capitalist class wants to have happen.

Track 1: They want culture wars to be fought between people who are actually the enemy.

Track 1: They actually have common ground with the oppressor, and yet they're stuck fighting

Track 1: each other because, you know, they've convinced them of such.

Track 1: But it does that without acknowledging that in any way.

Track 3: That's.

Track 1: What makes me also.

Track 3: They have this like obsession that was

Track 3: like hinted at in the first movie and then

Track 3: like expanded on in the second one to

Track 3: a giant extent of like depicting wakanda as a villainous nation and i don't

Track 3: understand their reasoning really like i get the idea of like we don't want

Track 3: it to be like this utopian society like we want it to be a real place with like

Track 3: flaws that has to evolve with the times.

Track 3: They, for some reason, are constantly pitting Wakanda against people where Wakanda

Track 3: is the one in the wrong doing the bad thing, like being colonialist,

Track 3: essentially, which is a weird thing to do.

Track 2: Yeah, exactly.

Track 3: That they're an isolationist colony that exists because they didn't want to be colonized.

Track 2: It's the portraying the DPRK as the villain, as the aggressor and things.

Track 2: It's like they're no they're not like like.

Track 3: It just like reminds me of every they're literally minding their own business

Track 3: it reminds me of like every harry potter adaptation where like they decide to

Track 3: make people in slytherin like black it's like that's like the racist group like

Track 3: what are you doing it's like why are we making wakanda the stand-in for colonialist.

Track 2: Here in.

Track 3: Like every conflict.

Track 2: Like you could tell such an

Track 2: interesting story and kugler is clearly

Track 2: a director with the ability but

Track 2: not only just the ability but the the the ideological like

Track 2: mindset to tell that story like he could tell that story clearly and yet because

Track 2: this is a disney movie because this is a marvel movie it's impossible are either

Track 2: of you familiar with the comics code authority all right so you will have to remind.

Track 3: Me of the details but i know the gist.

Track 2: Okay so back in the day when like you know um comics were you know like 25 cents

Track 2: or less um there was a major like legal showdown basically and it was about how like comics are like.

Track 2: Tainting the youth and so part

Track 2: of the comic code authority like to be um certified as

Track 2: you know like passing the code like you know there were things you

Track 2: couldn't do in the stories so you

Track 2: couldn't it's very similar to the same

Track 2: code that was in the movies where it was like if a

Track 2: cop is bad you can't show he

Track 2: has to be just the only bad one um you

Track 2: can't like disrespect the police you can't

Track 2: disrespect the military you can't portray this

Track 2: particular kind of violence you can't portray this that and

Track 2: the other thing and over time eventually comics

Track 2: left that behind but in a lot of ways it feels like the disney marvel movies

Track 2: like are still beholden to that it's like you can't portray america as the bad

Track 2: guy you can't portray any western nation as the bad guy it's like you know

Track 2: Googler tries his very hardest at the very beginning to paint and make it clear,

Track 2: actually, France is the bad guy here.

Track 2: They sent mercenaries, and it's like, oh, we've got to backtrack that.

Track 2: We've got to backtrack that and go all the way back. And even though the American

Track 2: scientists are doing what they say they weren't doing, and they're infringing upon these things.

Track 2: Actually, the conflict is now between Wakanda and Namor and his people.

Track 2: Because we can't portray any of these people in a negative light. It's just not allowed.

Track 1: But from what I understand, the plot development for this film was different

Track 1: before the passing of Jack McBoseman.

Track 1: Now, what I wonder is, was this still kind of like the crux of it?

Track 1: Like, was there still going to be this showdown?

Track 1: The difference would have been that he's king during this and like they're not

Track 1: having that sort of mourning aspect and it's still the same.

Track 1: Even if that's true, they're collaborating even more deeply with Martin Freeman

Track 1: and the CIA, where he's giving them like material information.

Track 1: Albeit, you're meant to sort of be like, well, he's actually like helping them.

Track 1: But another insanity aspect of this, they have this entire fight on this giant

Track 1: sort of ship in the ocean near the end.

Track 1: And yet the U.S. government like doesn't know about it.

Track 2: It's so like, I'm sorry. It's so non-sequitur. It's just like, what are we doing?

Track 1: That part of the movie, I'm just like, why? What? What's going on here?

Track 3: Yeah, like the entire, literally the entire conflict in that second movie just

Track 3: feels like they had the old scripts and they didn't want to trash it entirely.

Track 3: So they just like slipped those scenes in there just like with minimal to no

Track 3: context because they like hired the stunt choreographer already or something.

Track 1: I mean, maybe.

Track 2: The only thing I will say about this movie, the only positive thing I will say

Track 2: about this movie, is that I do think that the costuming and the design of Namor

Track 2: is absolutely gorgeous.

Track 2: Like, absolutely incredible.

Track 3: Yeah, when I saw, like, the sneak peek character, like, photo thing for Namor,

Track 3: I was like, yes. Hell yes, that one.

Track 2: So like i.

Track 3: Was excited going into the second movie because i thought like oh they're gonna

Track 3: take what was good and it's gonna be better now and that didn't happen.

Track 2: No they did the opposite that's the thing it's so it's so they took all the

Track 2: bad then turned it up to 11 we even have more we have more scenes in this of

Track 2: just straight up american government like black ops shenanigans Like,

Track 2: I don't want, I don't care.

Track 2: I don't. Martin Freeman should not be in these movies. I should not see a single, unless he's,

Track 2: Unless he's like a fucking villain, I shouldn't see a single fucking white person.

Track 2: That's straight up. That's my feeling on it.

Track 3: Yeah, like the first movie, like they had like the Afrikaner dude who was definitely

Track 3: alive during apartheid.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Who could have just been the bad guy.

Track 1: Yeah. I mean, the thing that makes me sad too is they give the backstory of

Track 1: their people and how they were created.

Track 1: And how or again kind of kind of created and

Track 1: them killing their oppressors you

Track 1: know that were making them into slaves and like

Track 1: that's good and then it just sort of it doesn't explore that

Track 1: in any deeper way and then by them fighting

Track 1: wakanda it like undermines that message

Track 1: even further and makes me wonder like why even tell us that like the whole backstory

Track 1: could have been interesting but in the way it just felt like what we need to

Track 1: add like some more you need to like have some interest in caring for them but

Track 1: then you almost you're kind of hypocrites i don't know yeah i mean yes and.

Track 3: Like it's a lot of they should have been non-violent.

Track 1: Completely like the the just you

Track 1: know and then when they go to their underwater

Track 1: place and like understand what they

Track 1: also have to lose like you're like oh well maybe they can

Track 1: just form an alliance but then it just sort of ends up being like doing what

Track 1: american imperialism would do is you know we're just gonna capture back our

Track 1: our you know our queen and not worry about the cost and just like we'll fight

Track 1: that war later which is exactly what america would do in that situation which.

Track 3: Like again like why are we making the like,

Track 3: marooned black colony that escaped colonization america like why are we doing yeah why why.

Track 2: Are we doing this i this movie makes me so mad like.

Track 3: Yeah it like it highlights what i think is like a bigger issue in general that

Track 3: i keep running into as someone who like works in film where it's like I don't

Track 3: even know if I want people to make these movies at this point,

Track 3: if they're going to be this thematically incoherent.

Track 3: It's just like, I give the first movie a pass, right? Oh, it's a good intro.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: But you can only be a good intro one time. Like, you have to do more after that.

Track 1: Will it make you mad if I told you that Ryan Coogler is apparently in development of the third movie?

Track 3: Like, I know he is.

Track 1: I didn't know that until like an hour ago.

Track 2: I did not know that. You got to be kidding me. But like.

Track 3: Yeah, something.

Track 1: And that makes me sad because I'm like, you could make sinners.

Track 2: Like, I have to assume he's just like, I have to assume he's just like, you know what?

Track 2: If I make this movie, I will get paid. It's a payday. And then I can go make,

Track 2: you know, my next Sinners.

Track 2: And I don't mean a sequel to Sinners. I mean, like, you know.

Track 1: I think that's reasonable.

Track 2: I mean, another, like, independent movie that he doesn't have to answer to any before. Like, it's.

Track 3: Yeah, I forget. Like, was Sinners produced by his own production company?

Track 3: I forget. He has his own production company now. I don't know if that was pre

Track 3: or post his movie coming out.

Track 2: Production company is proximity media yep it's

Track 2: his it's his it was produced by his it was his

Track 2: production company it was distributed by warner

Track 2: brothers but it was it was the production company is cuckoo's

Track 2: production company so yeah i mean like honestly like right i've that's the only

Track 2: thing this is the only thing that like i can square this that is like heyday

Track 2: next thing i can put in i can just put more money into proximity media and make

Track 2: another movie like that like that's it that that's It's the only way I square this in my brain.

Track 3: And I'm just generally so ambivalent about the Marvel Cinematic Universe at

Track 3: this point, because I don't want to be one of those people who shits on superhero movies as a concept,

Track 3: because I don't think all of them are bad.

Track 3: I just think it's a very oversaturated market.

Track 3: And I'm very annoyed by people who think the Marvel movies started getting bad

Track 3: the second they started letting like women in black and brown people direct them.

Track 3: So I don't want to be one of those people who was like, this is the beginning

Track 3: of the end of Marvel or anything, but it kind of was.

Track 2: I think you are actually correct. And why, and this goes back to being a fan of comics.

Track 2: Like I've stopped, I stopped reading comics a long time ago.

Track 2: And even before I stopped reading comics, I stopped reading mainstream superhero comics.

Track 2: And one of the reasons why is the reason I think that the Marvel movies do fail.

Track 2: And that is the constant focus

Track 2: on quote unquote events and how

Track 2: everything ties into everything else where you can't just watch or read one

Track 2: book without feeling obligated to watch or read 10 other things you because

Track 2: and black panther really is the start of that starting with,

Track 2: shuri right in the beginning oh now i have to take care of another white boy

Track 2: and it's like Like that is a nod to winter soldier.

Track 2: And then from that, like there's other little things that are like sprinkled in those movies.

Track 2: It's like, if you didn't watch 10 other movies, you won't know what this means.

Track 2: And that's what these movies have become. They're just, every movie is a setup for the next movie.

Track 2: That's all it is. I want to just watch a movie. Yeah.

Track 3: And I am cynical about like why Black Panther was like kind of the pinnacle

Track 3: of that happening, which is they did not trust Black Panther to like stay on

Track 3: its own without having two million Easter eggs to other things in it.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Which just goes back to like, I kind of just don't want Disney and Marvel to

Track 3: touch black media at this point.

Track 3: But I know it's culturally important. I know giving black creatives money is

Track 3: important, but also them as producers is not good.

Track 1: And I think that it's used maybe in a way of like the black directors and women

Track 1: directors making these.

Track 1: They're just being scapegoated as the reason why Marvel is failing.

Track 1: And I think it's more than also just simply the fatigue of what you're talking

Track 1: about, Bill. So I've mentioned this book before that I'm reading now.

Track 1: It's called The Extended Universe.

Track 1: And it talks about sort of how Disney has basically ruined movies and taken over the world.

Track 1: And it's because of their IP having to stretch through every kind of media, comics, books, movies.

Track 1: And so you have to watch and be part of the entire universe to understand everything.

Track 1: And people just got tired of that except for like a very small subset of people

Track 1: who are obsessed no matter what and they're the loudest they're going to complain

Track 1: about everyone oh it's a it's woke is all this stuff and so I want those female

Track 1: directors and those black directors and those other directors just,

Track 1: Make other projects if you can. I mean, look, it's hard to make movies.

Track 1: It's hard to get budgets and all of these things. But I just want them to make

Track 1: media that's, you know, that they want to make and not have to fit into the Marvel box.

Track 3: Yeah, it ironically reminds me of, like, the exploitation era of movies in, like, the 70s.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: Where, like, so many marginalized directors, like, got their first feature or

Track 3: their second feature making an exploitation movie.

Track 3: And then they went on to make like other things but like

Track 3: that was their intro to like actually getting a budget and like

Track 3: actually like getting something for like

Track 3: their director reel and everything and i just feel like

Track 3: so many directors are treating like cinematic

Track 3: marvel cinematic universe movies like that now

Track 3: i'm going to direct this movie and then

Track 3: i'm gonna go and do something else like

Track 3: chloe zau did that with like was it the marvels yeah and she won an oscar and

Track 3: it's probably going to win another oscar so it's a good like talent incubator

Track 3: and like i wish they would let the talent they're incubating that's fair do more stuff but.

Track 2: At the same time this argument is still the same argument about how representation

Track 2: within a system of oppression does not solve that oppression.

Track 2: Like that, this is still that we're still at that point. The like, because yes, they may,

Track 2: They may be able to go on and make their own,

Track 2: but like the, there's this system is still being fed through that exploitation

Track 2: and oppression and their work later on is still never capable of reaching the heights.

Track 2: It should because of the existing system, which is reinforced by their contributions to it in a way.

Track 2: Like, you're feeding the beast that is going to eat you in the end.

Track 2: And yes, you may get something out of it, but in the end, you know,

Track 2: representation does not solve oppression, right?

Track 2: Representation is important and it's valuable, but it does not solve oppression.

Track 2: It does not do that. And we can see that through any number of,

Track 2: you know, elected political figures and so on and so forth, you know,

Track 2: because that's exactly where we are.

Track 3: And that is like the tough thing about it, because like you can tell Ryan Coogler

Track 3: knows that that's the case.

Track 3: Because he had that deal with sinners where he's like, I'm going to own this

Track 3: movie and like you guys are not going to own this movie.

Track 3: Where, like, he clearly has some idea in his head about, like,

Track 3: marginalized people being able to, like, own and have authority over the stories they're telling.

Track 3: And, like, not have it be filtered through, like, a system or a structure that

Track 3: is, like, inherently othering them.

Track 3: Like, he gets that. And, like, I just feel bad.

Track 2: But then he went, I know he's doing Black Panther 3.

Track 3: I just feel like pretentious being like, I feel bad for millionaire director Ryan.

Track 2: Yeah.

Track 3: But I kind of just do feel bad where I feel like he's just like between a rock

Track 3: and a hard place at this point where like.

Track 2: Yeah, we all are.

Track 2: Have you heard it here first? Brianna Cox feels bad for Ryan Coogler,

Track 2: millionaire director, Oscar, Oscar winner.

Track 2: I do think, I do think that one thing that needs to be said about the first

Track 2: movie is that it is literally the story of an insurgent taking over a country.

Track 2: Or not an insurgent, but like a revolutionary taking over a country and then

Track 2: the CIA funding and supporting the, the, uh,

Track 2: preferable group to take over instead or like, or maintain power.

Track 2: Um, it is literally beat for beat. Like it is basically the Taliban.

Track 2: Like that's what it is. I mean, it's, it's Afghanistan and Taliban.

Track 2: That's what it is. They, they, they funded of the Mujahideen and they were like,

Track 2: you take over the socialist government.

Track 2: Like that's a revolutionary took over. The CIA was like, no,

Track 2: no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not happening.

Track 2: But like, again, like, just like you said, Brianna, it's about like the second movie.

Track 2: It's like, yeah, these things are there, but like, they're never like explicitly pointed out.

Track 2: So it gets lost. And it's the same thing. It's like, if you know these things,

Track 2: you can see all this in this,

Track 2: but if you don't, none of these points or lessons are being learned by anyone

Track 2: unless you're already a Marxist. Like, yeah.

Track 3: Yeah, that's like an issue I have with the Marvel Universe in general,

Track 3: where it ostensibly takes place in the real world.

Track 2: Yep.

Track 3: They're just in New York, and they're in London, and they're in Seoul.

Track 3: So the history of these places happened, presumably.

Track 3: So again, they had an Afrikaner who was alive during apartheid and probably

Track 3: did a genocide be the secondary bad guy in the first bloodbath.

Track 2: The secondary bad guy, the secondary bad guy, the main bad guy being a black guy.

Track 3: And like they never touch on that. They never touch on that.

Track 3: Like he's from a place that had apartheid and he probably did a genocide.

Track 3: They never touch on the CIA's weird relationship with Africa in general and

Track 3: the black diaspora in America specifically.

Track 3: They kind of just like have it

Track 3: exist in this world where like real

Track 3: problems happen but they don't acknowledge it

Track 3: because they still want to do like cool speculative fiction

Track 3: stuff but like you can't have cool

Track 3: speculative fiction stuff in an

Track 3: african country with an insurgent group trying to take it

Track 3: over and not reference african history

Track 3: yeah which they're trying very hard not to

Track 3: do which i know like people do

Track 3: not like dc and they don't like those movies

Track 3: but they do not have that problem because that's a

Track 3: fake universe that's totally true that's totally true

Track 3: yeah it's very distracting in black panther specifically but in winter soldier

Track 3: it's also very distracting where it's like hmm so soviet russia huh what was

Track 3: going on what was happening like every time they try to tackle,

Track 3: any kind of world event it becomes very confusing immediately yeah.

Track 2: Yeah it's it's and i mean and as we've

Track 2: pointed out like you know as these are products of a major multi you know an

Track 2: international conglomerate like they're not going to want to they're not going

Track 2: to address any of those things because addressing any of those things inevitably

Track 2: points out that they are actually the villain Like,

Track 2: you can't.

Track 2: Like, they cannot do it. It's impossible.

Track 3: I just want to rattle off a bunch of other Afrofuturist things that would be cool to watch.

Track 2: Yes, please.

Track 3: If you like Black Panther aesthetically and you want more stuff.

Track 1: Please do.

Track 3: But let's see. I think the most successful one is probably Poomsie,

Track 3: which is like a 20-minute short film that's just on YouTube and you can watch it whenever.

Track 3: It's like a cool, like dystopian short film.

Track 3: Then there's Spaces, The Place, which lots of people point to is like one of

Track 3: the first like Afrofuturist, like audiovisual things.

Track 3: Neptune Frost is one. I think Beast of the Southern Wild is one.

Track 3: People argue with me. I think it counts.

Track 2: Now, why do people argue with you on that?

Track 3: Yeah, because it's very fantasy adjacent, and there's a whole argument as to

Track 3: whether or not fantasy counts as sci-fi enough to be Afrofuturism.

Track 3: It doesn't. But it's like a dystopia, so I don't count.

Track 2: As a sci-fi and fantasy person, no, they're separate things. I'm sorry, Brianna.

Track 3: It's like a weird combination of magic realism and fantasy in dystopian ways.

Track 3: Climate apocalypse stuff so i think it counts all right you know what no.

Track 2: You know what you got me on board okay so this is really this is like star wars

Track 2: it's a combination of it's it's more fantasy science fiction it's a science fantasy.

Track 3: Yeah kind of actually all right so i'm on board,

Track 3: i'm.

Track 2: On board i'm on board it is afrofuturist at that point okay we got both we got both that's fine.

Track 3: But yeah that's that's the one on the edge the other ones are much

Track 3: more actually that spider verse definitely counts as

Track 3: afrofuturism by the way just watch spider verse for

Track 3: your afrofuturists like superheroes stuff

Track 3: and then jesus shows you the way to the highway was

Track 3: the one i referenced before that is a fun movie and then what's our last one

Track 3: there's naked reality which is a french movie so go into that knowing it's a

Track 3: pretentious french movie but it's also very cool but yeah Yeah, there is a bunch of...

Track 1: We need to put the whole list of this stuff in the show notes.

Track 2: Yeah, if you could, you know, make sure you send this over, as well as the artist

Track 2: you mentioned earlier, send the name so we can put this in the show notes so

Track 2: people can check it all out.

Track 2: I will put in the show notes with links so people can check it all out.

Track 2: Because definitely, people definitely should. Even French stuff.

Track 3: There's one more that I am racking my brain that has fire in the name.

Track 3: I know it has flames in the name, but born in flames.

Track 3: I'm pretty sure it's called. I'm going to Google it to make sure.

Track 3: Yes. Born in flames, 1983.

Track 3: It's like this really cool feminist science fiction thing.

Track 3: It is badass. And I love that movie. And I always forget what it's called for some reason.

Track 2: Awesome. We will make sure that those are in there.

Track 1: No, Lizzie Borden. Is that the one you're talking about?

Track 2: It's awesome. Yeah. We'll make sure that's all the show notes.

Track 2: People could check all that out.

Track 2: Um, is there anything else anybody wants to add on for our discussion on black Panther one and two?

Track 3: I mean, I guess just summary. I don't hate the first movie.

Track 3: I think you should watch it for context if you're going to get into Afrofuturism

Track 3: stuff and you can skip the second movie probably.

Track 2: Yes you know if you can you know

Track 2: if you can find some really awesome like just

Track 2: design stills or concept stills from the second movie check those out the the

Track 2: costume designing absolutely gorgeous uh i you know i the costume design absolutely

Track 2: gorgeous check check out the art concept other than that you should skip the

Track 2: skip the second one skip it.

Track 1: What wait wait what.

Track 2: There isn't a second We're not playing that game.

Track 1: I don't know what you're talking about.

Track 3: Oh, thank God. That's good.

Track 2: I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that. People do that about Pacific Rim,

Track 2: too, and it denotes the crap out of me.

Track 1: But I agree with all those thoughts.

Track 2: Before we head off, Brianna, you want to plug anything? I mean,

Track 2: I know what you want to plug. Plug your book.

Track 3: Yeah, sure. So I have a horror novel that is out for pre-order now.

Track 3: If you want the e-book or the paperback, the audio book is coming out probably

Track 3: on the release date on March 20th, if you prefer audio books.

Track 3: But it's a cool, fun, black horror book about cannibalism and vampires, and you should read it.

Track 2: What's the name?

Track 3: Oh, yeah. I totally forgot to say the name. So it was called...

Track 3: And you can look up more about that on my website. lianaincoxwriter.com,

Track 3: So actual information that will be helpful.

Track 2: That will be in the show notes. The link to Brianna's site where you can pre-order

Track 2: the book will be in the show notes.

Track 2: So please check out the show notes so you can pre-order her book.

Track 2: You should do that. You out there in listener land.

Track 2: Pre-order Indigent by Brianna Cox, our good friend and awesome guest.

Track 3: Yeah. If you get the paperback pre-ordered, it will come with swag and it's

Track 3: cool looking. I just got it in the mail.

Track 3: So if you want too much merch, you should get the paperback.

Track 1: Yes, you should definitely check that out. And Brian, of course,

Track 1: always great to have you on Left of Projector.

Track 1: You'll listen and find this on leftofprojector.com, wherever you find your podcasts.

Track 1: Of course, wherever you're listening right now, you can like and subscribe.

Track 1: And check out Brianna's other work. And we'll catch you next time.