This is Transit Unplugged.

I'm Paul Comfort, and on today's episode of the podcast, we

have a special treat for you.

We have as our guest, really the top transportation official in

the world from the largest transit system, Andrew Lord, or Andy Lord.

He is the Commissioner of Transport for London, TfL.

He's London's most senior transport official.

Been in the job now for over a year.

He was appointed on an interim basis in October of 2022 after his predecessor,

Andy Byford, left the agency.

Now he has been appointed on the permanent basis in June of 2023.

So just about a year holding the position.

And on today's episode, we talk about everything you think we would talk about.

His background, his career.

Some of the big challenges and successes of the agency, what's

happening with congestion charging and the ultra low emission zone, those

have special importance in the U.

S.

as the City of New York is moving toward congestion charging next month.

We talk about microtransit and e bikes, the new Superloop bus service with routes

around the city, the bus franchising model, how it works there in London and

how it's spreading throughout the U.

K., some new technologies that TfL is looking to embrace in the future, And

how they're moving toward a zero emission fleet and how that's all working there.

The Elizabeth Line and so many more things.

I think you're really going to enjoy this deep dive into the world's largest

transit system with the Commissioner of Transport for London, Andy Lord.

And if you Enjoy the podcast after you listen to it.

Leave us a rating, wherever you listen, whether it's on Apple

iTunes, Spotify, or somewhere else.

Leave us a rating and a comment so we can know what you think, and it'll

help more ears get to listen to the good news of public transportation.

Now let's dive into our conversation with Andy Lord, Commissioner

of Transport for London.

Thank you so much, Andy, for joining us on the show.

Pleasure, Paul.

Thanks for the invite and, delighted to join you.

Yeah, great to have you.

We've been working on this for probably nine months.

As soon as you got appointed back in October, I think I was emailing you

saying, Hey, you want to come on?

And I think you said, Hey, let me get my feet wet a little bit first.

So anyway, glad to have you on.

You're, you're coming up to celebrate your first full year as the, you know,

the official commissioner, right?

Correct.

Yeah.

I, I was appointed in June last year.

I held the position on an interim basis after my previous successor, Andy Byford.

Left in October.

so yeah, coming up to I guess 18 months in total, but 12 months officially.

It's been a really action packed first year.

Really proud of what we've, achieved and hugely honoured and privileged to

be, leading London's transport system.

from what I hear, it's going amazing.

You're doing an amazing job.

you know, I know I'm on the other side of the pond here, but I stay

in tune with what's happening there.

And, maybe if you don't mind, give us a few glimpses into, you know, the

highlights of the year, how you feel things have gone, any big, projects

you've undertaken and how they're going.

Yeah, sure.

I mean, as I say, it's been, it's been a momentous year actually

for us as an organization.

We've, for the first time in our history, we've, achieved an operating

surplus, financial, perspective.

So, cover the cost of our operations for the first time in TfL's history,

which is a remarkable achievement.

It's a 3.

1 billion pound turnaround over the last three years.

so that's, you know, at a business level, that's hugely important.

Of course, every pound of surplus we make is a pound we reinvest

into the network and into our customers and into our colleagues.

at an operational level, we've completed, what we call the Superloop, which is our

express bus network around outer London.

it's been hugely successful.

That's gone from literally being an idea on a small piece of paper, to the

launch of, nine routes, across, around the whole of outer London, in, about nine

months, which is a remarkable achievement.

I'm hugely proud of everybody involved with that.

we completed the final phase of the Elizabeth line, so Andy, my

predecessor, who you know well, did an amazing job, getting the Elizabeth

line actually open and connected.

But we did the final timetable uplift, in May last year, we're now

running 24 trains an hour, through the central section connecting Heathrow

in the west to Sheffield in the east.

it's carried well over 350 million passengers in the year, which is,

a remarkable achievement with huge, levels of, customer satisfaction,

and operational performance, which we're really, really proud of.

so there's those elements.

We've, of course, London, as you know, has a huge number of ceremonial events,

and events like the London Marathon.

we, of course, had the coronation, of their majesties, King

Charles III and Queen Camilla.

That was a huge event for the city and the nation, but it was a huge event for

TfL in terms of our role of, managing the transport for, the coronation.

And they've done a huge amount, on our net zero.

Journey, of course, the expansion of the ultra low emission zone

in August last year, the largest, low emission zone in the world.

London is a leading city, really is driving air quality improvement.

that was an immense task and it's gone extremely well.

so, they're just some of the highlights.

I've missed many out, but, you know, hugely grateful for the

incredible colleagues that we have across TfL who've done such

amazing things over the last year.

Well, bravo to you.

Tell us, how big is TfL?

Kind of give us a scope of, you know, the types of service you operate, how

many employees, all that kind of stuff.

Yeah, so we, depending on what measure you use, we are

the largest integrated public transport authority in the world.

so, we run all the buses in London.

We have a fleet of 9, 000 buses, largest fleet of buses in Europe, half

of all buses in the UK are in London.

we run the Underground, the oldest metro system in the world, about

600 trains operating each day.

between the buses and the Tube, they carry, about, 8 to

9 million passengers, per day.

we then have London Overground, the Docklands Light Railway, the The

London Trams, the Elizabeth Line, they carry between them about another

three million passengers per day.

So we're carrying about eleven to twelve million passengers a day across London.

We're also responsible for the strategic road network, all the traffic signals

in London, river services, the Woolwich Ferry, which is a ferry in the east,

London Cable Car, just for good measure, and then we have, the cycle hire scheme.

as well, and we license all the taxi and private hire vehicles across the city.

we have about 28, 000 colleagues directly employed by TfL

across, all those services.

And then we have another 25, 000 bus drivers who are employed

by, companies on our behalf.

And then about another 20, 000, across the wider supply chain,

providing services on our behalf.

And then on top of that, TfL, is directly responsible for about

100, 000 jobs in the wider supply chain and industry across, the UK.

our operating costs, about 9 billion sterling a year.

And as I say, we've just achieved our first operating surplus, which,

isn't public yet, but, it'll be round about 100 million ish, pound sterling.

So that's all I'll hopefully use this scale of what we do.

That's amazing.

tell us about the structure of TfL you're part of the city government

there, right, under, the mayor.

Correct.

We're, we're a public sector organization, wholly owned subsidiary of the Greater

London Assembly, which was, a devolved, part of government that London has its own

governance, if you like, within the UK.

The mayor, is responsible for leading that.

We actually have, the London mayoral election is taking place tomorrow.

It happens every four years, so I'll know, the weekend, who, the new mayor

will be, or if it's the same mayor.

the mayor is currently chair of TfL so we have a board of non

executives, appointed by the mayor.

we have a deputy mayor of transport who is our deputy chair, so my day to

day dealings with the deputy mayor.

but, the mayor holds me and our executive to account, so then the London wide

assembly who are also, being elected tomorrow, they then hold both the mayor

and myself to account in terms of how we spend, public funds, and that side of it.

And then, we get the majority of our funding through passenger income.

Obviously, but we do get devolved funding through what we call

business rates, which comes from London businesses and homeowners.

Through the COVID pandemic, we've received grant funding from central government, but

prior to the pandemic, that had all gone, so we were standing on our own two feet.

Because the dire impact the pandemic had on our finances, we went to government

and we've received funding from them.

But we're now on our own two feet again at an operating level.

So, the government, if they, if we make a suitable business case, they will provide

us with funding for major infrastructure and fleet renewals going forward.

But otherwise we now stand on our own two feet.

Tell me about your background, some coming from

the airline industry and how you ended up where you're at.

Yeah, so I'm an engineer by background.

I did an apprenticeship and degree, very fortunately sponsored by British Airways.

I worked for BA for 26 years straight from school, held numerous roles with them.

Including time out at Boeing in Seattle, a lot of time in the UK regions.

ended up on BA's executive committee for, about seven and a half years.

left BA in 2015 on very good terms, but it felt like it was the

right time to 26 years with them.

had an amazing, career and time with the airline and I'm very, very fond of it.

spent some time with a company called John Menzies who are a

big aviation services provider.

Uh, Running UK, Europe, Middle East, Africa and India.

Worked for them for about two and a half years.

had a very successful period with them.

and then left and, uh, was approached to join, uh, TfL as

Managing Director of the Tube.

just four months before, the pandemic I started, so, so I've been here

just coming up to, five years.

I was MD of the Tube for most of that time, became COO when Andy Byford

restructured us in February 22, and then, as we've already discussed,

Commissioner, at the end of 2022.

I also, am a non executive director for, one of the subsidiaries

of the UK Ministry of Defence.

so I, sit on the board of their procurement agency, which is really

interesting and, gives a different insight into how government works

and of course a critical role for, supporting the UK's armed forces.

so I do that.

I've also been a non-tech director for the UK UK's air traffic control

organization for eight years.

so quite a broad background, but all in transport operations, engineering.

So, what lessons did you take?

I know there's probably tons of them, but one or two that, you know, from the

aviation industry that you were able to apply in the public transit industry.

I mean, both of them are people in big silver tubes, right?

But, but one's in the air, one's on the ground, and one's run by government,

the other's run by private companies.

So, tell us your observations on that.

Yes, I mean, the most obvious one is obviously the absolute

focus on safety and security.

All transport sectors have to be absolutely focused, you know,

what we do is safety critical.

how you mitigate risk, how we ensure we keep our, our customers safe,

how we keep our colleagues safe is a big focus and, you know, rightly our

customers take that for granted, but we must never take that for granted.

So there's a lot of similarity there between aviation

and transport, or transit.

I think aviation are a bit more proactive, they're a bit more forward thinking

in terms of thinking about future risks and how can they use technology.

to offset that.

and I'm encouraging us to do more to think about that.

How can we Particularly as we move forward more into digital signaling,

and I think that's a big, big benefit.

As you say, massive people leadership, and, trade union, similarities.

we have, the most amazing colleagues in, in TfL who are

passionate about, the brand.

We need to do more to, really put them at the heart of, making

TfL a great place to work.

and I'm, I'm a great believer if you treat people, with respect, then

they will, treat you with respect.

And at the same time, if you make them happy in their employment, they will

deliver better service to, to your customers, to our customers, which then

grows more customers onto the network.

So, they're the, they're the big similarities.

Of course, From a TfL perspective, we're at both ends of the technology

and the, asset, life cycle, if you like.

We still have assets that were built by the Victorians, in the

1800s and are still in use today.

and we have the most amazing people who do incredible things.

maintaining and keeping those structures in place.

And then at the other end, we have the latest, 21st century technology,

putting the latest signaling systems in, bringing new trains in.

Elizabeth Line is the best example of that.

So it's a real mix of, the old and the new.

Whereas in aviation, it's typically nothing's more than

about 20, 25 years old, generally.

whereas, you know, we've got the oldest fleet of trains running in

the UK with the Bakerloo Line fleet.

You know, they are, you know, 52 years old this year, and, you know, our teams

are doing amazing jobs, keeping them running, so, big capital intensive

businesses, and, you know, we've, our customers expect us to deliver

safe and reliable services, and, you know, generally we do that very well.

Yes, I'd say you do.

That's great.

I, last time I was in London, I rode the Elizabeth Line, by the way, and I mean,

just bravo, you know, and, just fantastic.

It's the way it should be done.

so, and you contract out a lot of it, like that goes to MTR, right?

They're running them, and I had the guy that's the managing director there

on the show one time, but talk to us about that franchising model some.

last time I was in London, I did a big deal.

In the UK, I did a big tour of a bunch of agencies and interviewed them, and

at the time, some of them were talking about taking the franchising model

from London and making it theirs.

I think Transport for Manchester, maybe, is looking at that now, and, agency there,

TfL really is the model for the country, and now it's spreading everywhere, right?

Yeah, so we actually have two slightly different models in terms

of our franchise and concessions.

So on the rail side of it, we have both the overground, The Elizabeth Line, the

DLR and trams, where the actual operation of the trains is done through a third

party, through a commercial contract.

They staff the stations, their drivers drive the trains.

In one model, they do the maintenance of the trains as well.

In another model, and they're responsible, or they're responsible

for the contract management of that.

In the other model, we do it ourselves in trams, for example.

on the infrastructure, again, in some cases, we're the infrastructure manager.

So, the Elizabeth Line, central section, and trams, we are, on the

overground, actually, as part of the National Rail Network, so they do that.

And on DLR, the concession does it.

So, DLR is a hundred percent.

Concession run, Elizabeth Line is a hybrid, the overground is

a hybrid, and trams is a hybrid.

So that's the sort of rail model, and then of course we have the tube,

which is 100 percent in source bar from some maintenance activities.

On the buses, it's quite different.

So on the buses, it is, actually contracted out route by route.

so we have, off the top of my head, I think it's eight different

bus operating companies who all operate under the TfL roundel.

They all operate red buses.

they have a minimum standard in terms of what the customers expect and see.

it's managed through our main control center.

But each operating company is contracted, to operate those routes on, you

know, whatever the right commercial terms are, based on the frequency

we want, based on route length.

And we're using that very much at the moment as how we continue to roll out

to try and achieve our objective of, every bus in London being zero emission.

Currently by 2034, but we're looking to see how we can accelerate to 2030.

And it has proven to be very successful.

It's kept costs low.

London has the lowest fares for buses in the UK, compared to anywhere else.

the operating companies can make a return.

I think we're going through a point now, though, where we're looking at

If the commercial structure needs reviewing, particularly in light

of the investment that's needed, both for the infrastructure and for

the additional buses going forward.

So there will probably be some slight changes over the next 12, 18 months.

But as you say, the model is, It's proven to be very successful, it's

delivered huge service benefits to the city, and it's now been adopted

by Manchester in particular, who are rolling that out on a very similar basis.

And we've supported them in doing that, so they can learn from our mistakes, but also

learn from where we have got it right.

You mentioned moving to zero emission buses.

in the U.

S.

we've had a really interesting situation, challenging.

We've gone from five manufacturers of buses that are made in America

so to speak because we have rules about, you know, yet.

If you use federal funds, you have to have 70 percent of the bus by America.

Now we're down to basically two or three, and there's big long

lines, you know, two or three years waiting lines in a lot of cases.

Are you having any challenges like that in the UK and the OEM supply side?

not quite as bad as that.

I mean, the bus, manufacturing industry are picking up a lot more orders now.

we have two main manufacturers in the UK, and then obviously there's

a, there's a number in Europe.

and we, there are still a lot of buses being, manufactured which

are pure diesel, not for London.

and we were talking before about particularly in the north of Scotland

where I don't think there are any electric vehicles because they don't

perform as well in the extreme cold.

So diesel is better.

The challenge we've got, as I said, we've got 9, 000 buses, we've got about 1, 400

at the minute of those are all electric.

We've got a very small fleet of about 20 25 hydrogen buses.

To go to full zero emission, we need another 7, 000 buses over

the next seven years or so.

so we've got to think about how we work with the industry to make sure there is

the manufacturing capacity, to do that.

We're doing some smart thinking around, we have, you know, of those

7, 000 existing buses, they're all low emission hybrid buses.

How can we work with other cities in the country to roll out our,

our existing hybrid buses to cities and towns that currently

just have, normal emission buses?

Diesel buses, they can get a low emission vehicle at a lower price that enables

us to work with manufacturers to then bring in new zero emission buses.

So, it's how we can be more smart in terms of working with other parts of

the UK and the bus manufacturers to keep that supply of buses going forward.

But, yeah, the manufacturers are going to have to look at how they

increase capacity, And we're all going to have to think about, you know,

will it be acceptable for us to go and buy buses, or our operators to

buy buses from Europe, for example.

And some do, you know, we have Volvo buses, for example,

which are a very good, model.

So, that there is, at the minute, supply is not an issue, but the reality is

if we want to achieve our objective of going fully zero emission by 2030,

it is going to be a big challenge.

Yeah.

Let's talk about congestion charging.

There's a lot of interest about that here in the U.

S.

now, as New York City is the first American city to adopt

that model from, from the U.

K.

and Singapore and other places who have tried it.

they're gonna start it actually next month, where people will have to pay, a

set fee to get into the congested downtown area south of, 60th in, in Manhattan.

How's that working in London, and maybe any comments on ULEZ the ultra low

emission zone that you mentioned earlier?

Yeah, so we actually have three, elements to this in London.

We have the congestion charge, which is in the core of, of London.

It's been in place for, a number of years now.

Works very effectively.

It's had a direct, benefit on both traffic volumes and, air quality.

The mayor then launched the low emission zone, about five, six years ago, which

had a marked improvement in air quality.

And then, as we said, we launched the, the ultra low emission zone, which basically

covers Not entirely, but largely the area within the M25 motorway around London.

It's not a complete, zone, but it's not far off.

it's all done through ANPR, automatic number plate recognition through cameras.

the data is managed through a third party for us.

and it works very effectively.

the go life, that we had on August the 29th last year went very smoothly.

you know, doesn't cause any congestion.

or backlog, you know, there's no entering of, of gates, there's no toll gates,

there's no barriers, it's all done by cameras, so from a road user perspective,

it's almost, unnoticeable, but it's very efficient and very effective, and

yeah, we will, there will be a report in the next, month or so, which will

show six months on what the, impact and benefits have been of the ultra low

emission zone, and, expansion, we're expecting it to be, very significant.

We've already known from our own data that the number of compliant

vehicles has increased, and therefore, by default, the air quality should

have improved, and we've seen some, congestion, improvements as well.

And this is all about, at the same time, you know, some people

will say this is us, Having a war on motorists absolutely isn't.

It's around improving air quality.

At the same time, if it delivers, some traffic, easing, that's, that's great.

But it's also around how we provide alternative public transport options for

people in the outer areas of the city.

So that's why we launched the Superloop.

We're looking at doing more bus services in outer London.

So, you know, some areas, particularly south of the Thames,

have little or poor rail services.

There's not much, if you look at the underground map, There's very

few tube lines that go south of the River Thames, because of the ground

conditions of when the tube was built.

So, people south of the river are very reliant on buses, National Rail, or their

car, and we need to give them more choice.

And so the money from the congestion charging and ULEZ goes

in to help you expand the service?

Yeah, so all, all the proceeds from, the, both the

congestion charging and ULEZ are reinvested back into public transport.

as I say, all the income we get is focused on, ensuring that we invest

in, in the public transport network.

ultimately, our business plan shows that our net income Will be flat,

because the number of vehicle compliance will increase and therefore, you

know, there is only a charge for ULEZ if your vehicle is not compliant.

Right.

Congestion charge is a charge because it's in the zone where we want to

reduce the number of vehicles, but that's a pretty steady number now.

but the ULEZ, we expect that income to actually reduce

over the next couple of years.

As people get cleaner cars.

Indeed.

Yeah, yeah.

So tell us about what's the role of TfL with microtransit?

Like we're coming into warmer weather now, people want to get the

e bikes or scooters or whatever.

Are you all involved in that at all?

And if so, how's it going?

Yeah, so we have our own cycle hire scheme, the Santander Cycle Hire.

It's largely in the inner parts of London.

We have a combination of both e bikes and old school bikes.

We're looking to increase our fleet of e bikes.

There's a lot of competition now with the sort of, just the, you know, line

bikes and forest bikes and that sort of thing, which are, you know, undocked.

and we're working closely.

through the London boroughs to see how we can be a bit more coordinated on that

because that creates a few challenges.

We're also responsible for, what we call micro mobility,

so the trial of e scooters.

e scooters are actually illegal in the UK, privately owned ones.

They can't be ridden legally, on the roads or on the pavements.

But the government launched a trial, I think it was about three or four years

ago, I think it was three A certain number of providers in towns and cities

across the UK with geo fenced scooters that can be parked in only certain

locations and you hire them and then can sort of ride the last mile or so.

So, we're responsible for running that trial.

It's proving quite popular.

I think there's more to be done around how we have greater coordination and

understanding how it all fits together.

So, we're responsible for that.

and it's an important part of how, what we call deliver the last mile, journey.

So people come into town on the train.

They either get the bus, they walk, they cycle, or they, they scoot.

and we want to give people that flexibility.

So, because we have a target of trying to get 80 percent of people in London using

public transport, walking or cycling.

That's good.

coming near the end of our interview now, but on today, the day that we're

talking, May Day, May 1st, my new book, The New Future of Public Transportation

is officially launched, and in the book, I've got a chapter from Simon

Reid, who worked with you guys for a long time there, doing data, etc.

Now he's a consultant, I guess, but it made me think about the

technologies that are coming.

This book is largely about what's coming for us, you know, whether it's

cyber security, which is so important for transit agencies now, to AI.

whatever.

So, I want your thoughts, if you could, Andy.

You're heading up the biggest transit system in the world.

What do you see coming for us, and how is TfL preparing for

it when it comes to technology?

well, congratulations on the book, by the way.

Thank you.

so I'll send you a copy.

Thank you.

Yeah.

we have an abundance of data and technology.

We use it a huge amount for travel demand management.

for helping predict and plan, for the future of the city,

for, for future services.

We're also, we have our own app called TfL Go, which we're looking to

develop further so we can give people real time, information through that.

we're looking, that will go live later this year with payment options as well.

we're looking to see what more we can do.

We, we, as you know, created the first, contactless payment system.

Oyster, we then actually created the contactless payment system that we

all love and use now across the world.

so we're thinking about what more can we do.

What's the next sort of generation of ticketing?

What's the next generation of, enabling people access onto the network?

How do we work with the likes of Google, Microsoft, Amazon,

whoever, into data of the future?

and as technology, develops, so we give people the opportunity to, to move

more freely, but ensuring we capture the revenue that we need, and then

use that to the best of our ability.

We're doing a huge amount of technology, obviously, on, future,

vehicles, be it buses, be it trains.

we're not doing so much on autonomous vehicles at the moment, but I

think clearly some cities are, and I think we need to look at that.

we do a lot around, how we use it for traffic signaling, we use some

really smart technology, some of which is come from the ballistic missile,

systems the military use to how we predict when traffic is flowing and

not flowing so that we can speed up the traffic, flows across the city.

So, and then AI.

I mean, who knows?

I wouldn't even try and pretend I understand it.

If anything, I'm probably a little scared of it.

But I have no doubt that AI is going to play a significant role for the

future, whether or not it's during my tenure or one of my successors tenures.

But, yeah, I think we need to embrace it, but we need to do it in

a way that is controlled and with appropriate governance and regulation.

For

That's great.

You know, I did an interview this week, for a thing called, Transit Talent.

It's an e newsletter, and one of the questions was, what's

your favorite or what's the best transit system in the world?

And I talked some about some of the cities I've visited.

I think I've been to 80 cities around the world doing this podcast and our TV

show and visited their transit agencies, but I said, you know, the number one

agency in the world has to be TfL.

I mean, it's got it all, and it's well run, and it's woven into the fabric of

the city so that it's seen, you know, not as just something for some people to

ride, but it's something for everyone.

So, from my perspective, Andy, you know, you, you've done it,

and your predecessors, you, you've reached the pinnacle.

Not only are you the biggest, but in my opinion, you're the best.

so congratulations and bravo on that.

And I just, any last thoughts you have for our audience of people around the world

and the hundred countries that listen to the podcast, anything you'd like to share?

Well, thank you for your kind words, Paul.

I mean, I'm incredibly proud of what we do, but we're not complacent.

think there's a lot more we can do.

Our system is not as accessible as we would like it to be for

people who have disabilities, so there's a big focus for us on that.

I've moved away from us saying we're the best and the greatest.

We're very proud of what we

do.

That's

great, but I think we've had a bit of a reputation in the

past of saying we are the best.

Okay.

Actually, I want us still to learn.

There are many other organizations out there, some of whom are clearly much

better financially backed in terms of the investment they're making, but we

need to make sure we learn from other cities and other transport networks

to see how can we take the best.

About those other organizations, how can we learn from their use of

technology so that we can really make sure we're maximizing investing in the

right things for the future of London.

We are doing whatever we can now to make our system even more integrated,

so that it becomes more seamless for, for customers going forward.

and, I just, you know, for all your listeners, who have used the system

and do use the system, Thank you.

We're very grateful.

please come and visit if you haven't, and, you know, please do,

come and see us in London where we are really proud of what we do.

and, so you can see everything here from the amazing new Elizabeth Line to, almost

our heritage line on the Bakerloo line to, The driverless DLR through to cycle

schemes, road networks, you name it.

we're really proud of it.

So thank you.

yeah, congratulations.

And I think that's a great attitude, you know, humble, still wanting to learn.

That's the way you'll grow, right?

I mean, the only constant is change and so TfL I know, will continue to

adapt and grow under your leadership.

We wish you the very best there and thank you so much, Andy, not only for what

you do for the industry, but for sharing it with us today on Transit Unplugged.

My pleasure, Paul.

This is Tris Hussey editor of the transit unplugged podcast.

Thank you for listening to this episode of transit unplugged with our guest Andy Lord

Commissioner for Transport for London.

Coming up next week on the show, we have a special transit leaders panel

recorded live at TripSpark ignite.

. Hey, are you a fan of Transit Unplugged?

Well, I bet you are.

And I bet, you know, someone who might also like the show.

So take a moment, share the show with a friend and make them part of

our transit enthusiast community.

Transit unplugged is brought to you by Modaxo.

At Modaxo, we're passionate about moving the world's people and at

Transit Unplugged, we're passionate about telling those stories.

So until next week, ride safe and ride happy.