0:00:00.200,0:00:06.480
a black executive perspective whether you're aware
of it or not it's a topic that is often avoided
0:00:06.480,0:00:12.280
we'll discuss race and how it plays a factor
and how we didn't even talk about this topic
0:00:12.280,0:00:20.800
cuz we were afraid a black executive perspective
but a big part of it was understanding that this
0:00:20.800,0:00:27.000
is who I am and I want to really spend some time
and some courage around understanding that and and
0:00:27.000,0:00:33.200
going as deep as I can with this this is what I do
what's the alignment that's possible because there
0:00:33.200,0:00:38.160
always going to be tradeoffs there there're always
going to be aspects of myself which I need to I'll
0:00:38.160,0:00:47.640
be required to to place aside for a moment it's
welcome to a black executive perspective podcast a
0:00:47.640,0:00:53.760
safe space where we discuss all matters related to
race especially race in Corporate America I'm your
0:00:53.760,0:01:02.320
host your guide your Sensei Tony tidbit and you
know one of the things I I struggled with in my
0:01:02.320,0:01:10.840
life is really trying to figure out who I really
am you know and I think that's a journey that all
0:01:10.840,0:01:18.480
of us go on from the time we come into the world
we really try to figure out who we are what we
0:01:18.480,0:01:26.640
like and it's a struggle and obviously there's a
conflict from you know what we think Society wants
0:01:26.640,0:01:33.400
us to be what our family wants us to be and I was
no different right I remember my mother telling
0:01:33.400,0:01:38.000
me something when I was a kid and she you could
be you good at math you could be an accountant
0:01:38.000,0:01:43.960
so I was like I'm going to be an accountant right
however at the end of the day it's important that
0:01:43.960,0:01:49.320
we have the self-discovery in terms of who we
really are and a lot of times we think it has
0:01:49.320,0:01:55.760
to do with you know our titles at work or you
know the different accomplishments that we had
0:01:55.760,0:02:03.520
as well as our failures and we know that's not
entirely the case so today our guest James Jones
0:02:03.520,0:02:13.600
will share his story and what he discovered on
his journey through this thing we call Life Jim
0:02:13.600,0:02:19.760
welcome to a black executive perspective podcast
it's great to be here buddy I'm so excited that
0:02:19.760,0:02:25.040
you're here and especially we're going to talk
about you know self-discovery and um you know it's
0:02:25.040,0:02:31.760
something that we struggle with I still struggle
with I think you know most people very rarely you
0:02:31.760,0:02:38.080
know people understand who they are why they're
on this planet what they're supposed to do so I
0:02:38.080,0:02:43.680
really appreciate you coming on and sharing your
story and providing some insights to our audience
0:02:43.680,0:02:49.560
so before we get into the heavy stuff my friend
give us a little background on you well what
0:02:49.560,0:02:56.000
shall I say I'm a an executive coach a certified
executive coach and Dei consultant I live in New
0:02:56.000,0:03:03.080
York City and Brooklyn more precisely in bedy more
precisely than that um yeah I've been here now for
0:03:03.080,0:03:09.840
off and on for any number of years I've lived
abroad uh but my my my my my path always took
0:03:09.840,0:03:14.760
me back to Brooklyn so here I am oh so Brooklyn is
the key though right so why do you say your path
0:03:14.760,0:03:21.160
always took you back to Brookland well I was born
in St Louis Missouri quite frankly and uh went to
0:03:21.160,0:03:27.080
school in Boston in Cambridge at Harvard and uh
came to New York initially to go to juliard in the
0:03:27.080,0:03:33.400
American Opera theater and pths took me away from
New York after that I won a full bright Fellowship
0:03:33.400,0:03:38.240
I went to Europe I was there for about five years
or so came back lived in Brooklyn again in fact
0:03:38.240,0:03:43.840
in the same building I'd lived in before and uh
then I moved out to Seattle came back to New York
0:03:43.840,0:03:48.880
lived in the same apartment building I lived
in before so I'm a real homing pigeon I think
0:03:48.880,0:03:54.160
and um yeah and here I am could I leave Brooklyn
now I probably could but I take Brooklyn with me
0:03:54.160,0:04:00.520
I think wherever I went well W listen when you
keep coming back to the same place you're right
0:04:00.520,0:04:06.720
it's part of who you are indeed no go ahead what
you gonna say I said indeed it is yeah it's part
0:04:06.720,0:04:12.000
of who you are right so and look I'm from Detroit
Michigan I still I live in Connecticut but I still
0:04:12.000,0:04:17.840
read Detroit news and Free Press every day still
keep up on everything going on in Michigan so
0:04:17.840,0:04:24.080
definitely relate to that however my friend you've
had a very you know and you just spoke to it at a
0:04:24.080,0:04:33.920
high level you've had a very uh unique journey
I mean St Luke leis juliard Harvard you didn't
0:04:33.920,0:04:41.520
say it but Colombia uh executive life coach so I
mean that's a lot that's that number one that is
0:04:41.520,0:04:48.080
outstanding which is awesome however why don't
we we back up a little bit you know because I
0:04:48.080,0:04:55.040
love to hear you know from St Louis to juliard
is is you know I don't think those two words go
0:04:55.040,0:05:00.520
together okay so tell us a little bit give us
a little bit you know from your background in
0:05:00.520,0:05:05.400
terms of you know where you started in St Louis
and you know to the next levels in terms of how
0:05:05.400,0:05:11.760
you got out I think mine was sort of the classic
social studies story I came from a single parent
0:05:11.760,0:05:17.920
household I had 11 brothers and sisters a single
mother not an unusual tale to be told in many of
0:05:17.920,0:05:24.360
our cities at a particular era um I was the
seventh of 11 children spent most of my time
0:05:24.360,0:05:29.160
my earlier years with my grandmother quite frankly
and that was sort of I think where my core values
0:05:29.160,0:05:35.040
I thought were beginning to be sort of sown I
was a very shy young person uh my mother had
0:05:35.040,0:05:41.480
a a rough mouth let's just say and she took no
prisoners and I always sort of cowed from that
0:05:41.480,0:05:45.960
my grandmother was a very sort of saintly woman
said well you got to understand your mama she
0:05:45.960,0:05:50.840
got to go out and work every day and so I want
you to be a good Christian boy Jimmy Jones and
0:05:50.840,0:05:57.520
understand and one day I uh I got a I was in music
always I always sang and I got a a scholarship to
0:05:57.520,0:06:02.520
go to a a music school in Illinois Illinois
Wesleyan University I'll never forget and for
0:06:02.520,0:06:07.840
my family that was really something someone going
to college the first in Generations but then out
0:06:07.840,0:06:13.360
of the blue some dude showed up at my high school
and he said I got called to the principal's office
0:06:13.360,0:06:17.480
and this man said I'm a recruiter from Harvard
and I said how do you spell Harvard sort of
0:06:17.480,0:06:26.600
thing for whatever reason he saw something in
me that uh he decided to groom me and took me
0:06:26.600,0:06:31.680
to Harvard I got into Harvard and uh the po
music school got sort of tossed to the side
0:06:31.680,0:06:35.680
there were many people who had grown up with
me singing who that was a grave mistake and
0:06:35.680,0:06:40.520
who knows in your life you look back and you
say what's an error what was sort of sent by
0:06:40.520,0:06:47.280
the the universe for me to pursue well hold on
one second because you just hold you went from
0:06:47.280,0:06:55.600
you you I mean buddy that's a lot so let's
back up a little bit okay so 11 siblings yes
0:06:55.600,0:07:00.920
how is that and you're number seven okay so
tell me a little bit you know single parent
0:07:00.920,0:07:08.400
household in St Louis 11 kids Your mother
tell us a little bit about that experience
0:07:08.400,0:07:14.520
ah what can I say about that I think you again
I don't want to generalize but being one of 11
0:07:14.520,0:07:19.160
it was almost like being an only child
in that my older siblings were so much
0:07:19.160,0:07:24.680
removed from me and the younger so much removed
until much that I was likely to have to contend
0:07:24.680,0:07:33.960
with i i contended with if you will as as a as
a single entity having said which very loving
0:07:33.960,0:07:39.760
household without a doubt we were not kissy Huggy
people by any stretch of the imagination but food
0:07:39.760,0:07:44.680
was on the table such as it was and to me that's
love do you know that was my mother love language
0:07:44.680,0:07:51.600
you had the you had the light on and you had food
on the table you go somewhere else for hug sort
0:07:51.600,0:07:58.360
clear around that that's awesome you know I'm not
not sure that works for everyone as well as it did
0:07:58.360,0:08:03.600
for some but uh looking back and you know they
say you what is it you you experience forward
0:08:03.600,0:08:08.320
but you learn backwards there was a point in my
experiencing forward that I arrived at a learning
0:08:08.320,0:08:14.800
moment I thought ah I get it now I recall one day
when I was uh one evening when I was in sort of my
0:08:14.800,0:08:19.440
second semester of being a a sophomore at Harvard
I called my mother in the middle of the night
0:08:19.440,0:08:24.560
and she said James Clarence she always called me
James Clarence said mother and I was such a snotty
0:08:24.560,0:08:30.240
little thing I called my mother this little black
boy from St Louis calling his mother mother hello
0:08:30.240,0:08:35.720
that should tell you something right away I said
mother I get you do you know what she said to me I
0:08:35.720,0:08:41.000
knew you would and she hung up on me and that was
the beginning of a whole new relationship with it
0:08:41.000,0:08:46.080
didn't need more explanation it needed nothing I
got it I also developed a very bad mouth because
0:08:46.080,0:08:53.600
of so when you said you got it are you saying
that you understood the responsibility and all
0:08:53.600,0:08:57.720
the things that your mother did to bring you
guys up is that what you're saying or what is
0:08:57.720,0:09:04.400
it something different 100 % I understood her
I I began to empathize with this woman and her
0:09:04.400,0:09:10.040
struggles and and the kinds of decisions she was
making and priorities she was setting which in
0:09:10.040,0:09:15.560
my little corner I didn't get as a growing child
for perhaps someone more aware than I might have
0:09:15.560,0:09:20.080
gotten it sooner but the moment I got it I've
never looked back from it I can tell you that
0:09:20.080,0:09:25.080
well I and I think I think we all at some point
most kids struggle with that right and I think
0:09:25.080,0:09:30.120
that's one of the main things that parents always
try to you know wake their kids up in terms of do
0:09:30.120,0:09:36.560
you know what this takes to do right it money is
not growing on trees I have to go out and you know
0:09:36.560,0:09:42.520
do whatever I need to do to take care of you so I
think you know we I think I can hear my mother in
0:09:42.520,0:09:47.840
my ear saying that Double A's looking nod in his
head his parents said the same thing to him so and
0:09:47.840,0:09:53.520
you know what and I'm saying the same thing to my
daughters right now all right so so it's something
0:09:53.520,0:10:00.160
that we all you know we all struggle with but it
was great and and even though she probably you
0:10:00.160,0:10:07.240
was a short uh short um answer I'm pretty sure
she was appreciative that you at least reached
0:10:07.240,0:10:12.360
out and said hey I finally figured it out this
answer was it was it was short in terms of the
0:10:12.360,0:10:18.760
number of words she used but it was decades
in depth believe me there was no need for any
0:10:18.760,0:10:25.040
more we understood from that moment and again that
understanding never ever left me and it never left
0:10:25.040,0:10:32.320
that relationship so that's awesome so so seven of
11 matter of fact buddy that's I love it no wonder
0:10:32.320,0:10:42.440
7 11 so you you get no wonder blessed so how did
you seven out of 11 uh siblings um how did you get
0:10:42.440,0:10:49.120
involved in music where did that come from can I
was you know singing as a a young child I sang in
0:10:49.120,0:10:54.760
local choruses and all of that and someone as a
some member of the church in fact as a gift they
0:10:54.760,0:10:59.240
said they were going to give me three months of
voice lessons I was like 15 or so my voice voice
0:10:59.240,0:11:03.920
hadn't changed yet but I went to this fellow who
ended up becoming quite a famous vocal coach in
0:11:03.920,0:11:10.360
New York uh his name was Orin Brown and he took me
on and at the end of the three months he said my
0:11:10.360,0:11:16.920
gift to what's going on with your people as he
puts and I'll never getet will be to make sure
0:11:16.920,0:11:22.160
that you get the best that I can offer you and
no one's going to have to pay the the you know
0:11:22.160,0:11:27.520
the put money in the till for that and I stayed
with him until again I went from there to Harvard
0:11:27.520,0:11:33.600
when I graduated from Harvard by then he had gone
to juliard as a teacher and you know got accepted
0:11:33.600,0:11:39.520
into juliard and I joined him there too so wow
so let's back up a little bit he he said that I
0:11:39.520,0:11:47.240
want to make sure your people um Can maximize
and I'm I'm I'm paraph paraphrase it maximize
0:11:47.240,0:11:53.480
your opportunity is that what did he mean by that
gosh I don't want to speak for him let me tell
0:11:53.480,0:12:01.520
you what I what I lived from that okay was that
you are a young poor black talented intelligent
0:12:01.520,0:12:08.080
I suppose at least that was his perspective and
this is my contribution if you will to what was
0:12:08.080,0:12:15.720
beginning to be a nent aspect of the the struggle
the you know the people are people black people
0:12:15.720,0:12:21.200
demanding voice and all of that and his way of
and I don't mean to speak for him this was his
0:12:21.200,0:12:26.520
contribution I hope he also saw talent to me so
well I would I mean I mean and I'm pretty sure
0:12:26.520,0:12:31.840
he did because eventually you ended up going to
juliard and stuff that I don't think he just you
0:12:31.840,0:12:37.240
know slid you in the back door and said you know
yeah so I'm pretty sure he saw the talent let me
0:12:37.240,0:12:44.280
so what what type of music so you said choir so
what what type of music was were you singing aha
0:12:44.280,0:12:50.120
when I went to Harvard I was an English major but
by end of my sophomore year I was already singing
0:12:50.120,0:12:55.440
professionally around around Boston and by the
time I was at the end of my junior year I think
0:12:55.440,0:13:01.240
I was spending 75% of my time performing I was an
opera singer singer and uh that's what I was doing
0:13:01.240,0:13:07.120
and so the path to juliard was already being sort
of paved so the moment I graduated I went to New
0:13:07.120,0:13:15.960
York so how did you get into Opera I don't know
because usually people usually people say they
0:13:15.960,0:13:22.040
start singing in the church they you know stuff
to that nature and then they go off and start a
0:13:22.040,0:13:28.240
group Opera how were you exposed to Opera when you
were a kid tell us a little bit about that not at
0:13:28.240,0:13:33.280
all not at at least until I got to high school
I guess something in the quality of my voice um
0:13:33.280,0:13:40.360
suggested that it was a voice particularly when
my voice changed that was developing into um what
0:13:40.360,0:13:46.280
someone heard as having operatic qualities about
it really you I don't want to make it any more
0:13:46.280,0:13:52.000
romantic than that is what it is I will tell
this anecdote my voice actually changed the at
0:13:52.000,0:13:57.080
one night when I was on stage to be more correct
about that my voice had changed when no one had
0:13:57.080,0:14:02.800
heard me sing and I'll never forget singing Some
Enchanted Evening on this big stage with all these
0:14:02.800,0:14:08.760
people and my teacher was booming in the in in
in in the in the in the background and when we
0:14:08.760,0:14:12.800
finished singing the piano was playing I turned
to the audience and I said now I'm going to sing
0:14:12.800,0:14:19.960
this to you in my other voice Meanwhile my teacher
fainting backstage and I sang the whole thing over
0:14:19.960,0:14:28.960
again in Baron oh my God so you were so so now you
and again I'm ignorant to Opera to be you know my
0:14:28.960,0:14:34.920
mother she grew she was from Long Island she you
know she exposed me to classical music she used
0:14:34.920,0:14:40.160
to love classical music I don't know oper the
only thing I know about Opera is when I was a
0:14:40.160,0:14:47.880
kid watching Bugs Bunny Looney Tunes and Elmer F
was saying Kill the Wabbit kill I mean that's all
0:14:47.880,0:14:55.480
I know right so so tell us because I you know I
number one it's and again I'm this is my ignorance
0:14:55.480,0:15:00.880
so i' love for you to educate me and maybe other
people who who are not aware of Opera so yeah how
0:15:00.880,0:15:07.680
did you get exposed to Opera again it was just
the fortunes of of being around people who had
0:15:07.680,0:15:13.000
themselves that exposure and who invited me in
again you know coming from where I came from I
0:15:13.000,0:15:17.840
was not likely to have much exposure to it but
you know very early on I was placed in gifted
0:15:17.840,0:15:24.120
programs and in in in M years where people could
could sponsor that type of exposure so I was very
0:15:24.120,0:15:31.000
fortunate that was that's a blessing right to be
able to be exposed and not only be exposed be able
0:15:31.000,0:15:40.400
to actually participate and become really good at
it which you did okay um so did you envision at
0:15:40.400,0:15:45.040
this time frame that you were going to this was
going to be you know we talk about identity and
0:15:45.040,0:15:51.280
Discovery and all this did you envision that you
would be and you traveled around and you actually
0:15:51.280,0:15:57.920
went to plays and performed you know around the
country and I think you also went to to Paris
0:15:57.920,0:16:04.440
and performed there right did you think that this
was going to be your you know career I didn't you
0:16:04.440,0:16:09.680
know to mean there was nothing else but music
but Opera and even though I majored in English
0:16:09.680,0:16:16.120
at at Harvard I never lost the slightest thought
but what I would be an opera singer and I still
0:16:16.120,0:16:25.400
identify as an artist wearing corporate drag if
you will very much I know my sensibility I own it
0:16:25.400,0:16:32.280
so going to Harvard was that what was it because
of music how did that opportunity become real I
0:16:32.280,0:16:37.120
think it became I got the opportunity because of
I was something different you know God knows I'm
0:16:37.120,0:16:41.480
not a great intellectual but I was smart enough
you know I could pass the very basics of getting
0:16:41.480,0:16:47.120
in and I had the music and I suspect that those
who were making those selections thought that was
0:16:47.120,0:16:53.360
different to invite into Harvard I can imagine so
so what was the feeling single black kid growing
0:16:53.360,0:16:59.080
up in St Louis now going to one of the most
prestigious universities in the world world how
0:16:59.080,0:17:04.800
how did that did that ring did did you were like
wilded by it or was it was just a regular thing
0:17:04.800,0:17:09.960
oh you know I can look back on it now and come up
with all kinds of descriptors which uh perhaps I
0:17:09.960,0:17:14.560
weren't feing at the time it was you know culture
shock you know being dirt poor all of a sudden
0:17:14.560,0:17:20.040
being around people who had $150 million you know
trust funds there was no connection I could make
0:17:20.040,0:17:24.720
with any of that and nor did I have to struggle
with that connection because I was protected in
0:17:24.720,0:17:31.200
a sense I was cocooned because of Music quite
frankly Harvard took care of me without a doubt
0:17:31.200,0:17:36.240
without a doubt I never had the slightest want for
four years neither money for going home or going
0:17:36.240,0:17:42.480
on trips I went on world tours and all of that and
again coming from a family of 11 you know kids of
0:17:42.480,0:17:48.320
an uneducated mother so it's extremely fortunate
I'm a horrible School chauvinist I'm not a snob
0:17:48.320,0:17:54.560
about where I went to school but I definitely
wear the Crimson I do so you know they just had
0:17:54.560,0:18:00.120
the Harvard Yale game uh last week though do you
ever go to you ever go to the Harvard Yale game or
0:18:00.120,0:18:07.840
what are you don't want are you ready to get off
the podcast I said y the har jail game to be seen
0:18:07.840,0:18:15.560
not for were they doing something else out there
but celebrating me how's that for ego I love it
0:18:15.560,0:18:21.040
I love it well look that's that's part of going
to to going there right is because it's part of
0:18:21.040,0:18:26.800
now and again we're talking about identity and
self-discovery and stuff of that nature so that
0:18:26.800,0:18:35.360
that is um that is awesome so how in in terms you
were you said you protected you had a cocoon I
0:18:35.360,0:18:40.480
did which was great did you interact with the
other student body and if you did what was the
0:18:40.480,0:18:46.200
and you said hey I'm an opera singer I'm on the
choir and obviously the the black population at
0:18:46.200,0:18:51.600
Harvard I can imagine you know when you went
there was was minimal right so what was that
0:18:51.600,0:18:58.040
experience like it was again I was so protected
I I don't want to take any credit to myself but
0:18:58.040,0:19:02.320
I called there was a picture on the front of the
Harvard Crimson which was our local you know the
0:19:02.320,0:19:06.520
Harvard's newspaper and I was standing next
to the president of the Harvard who had gone
0:19:06.520,0:19:12.000
to a conent which I was in the night before and
stopped to speak to me on Harvard Yard is where
0:19:12.000,0:19:18.200
the Freshman live and the Crimson captured a
photo of it and they said Jimmy Jones with a
0:19:18.200,0:19:26.360
friend I was obscenely popular and I want to say
that now because I want to then peel back that to
0:19:26.360,0:19:32.240
speaking of identity I was extreme really horribly
popular Harvard has what they call the only at the
0:19:32.240,0:19:38.080
time the only four elected positions Harvard had
was what they call class Marshals and they for the
0:19:38.080,0:19:45.680
last 100 years or so had always been the wealthy
white athlet athletes I was number two wow made
0:19:45.680,0:19:52.000
all the papers it was the first time Harvard
that had a black um person in in in that role
0:19:52.000,0:19:57.360
and I just got as a class Marshall it was just
one of those things in fact in my graduation the
0:19:57.360,0:20:02.200
four bus were sing together and I was wearing
a red something other and one of the the the
0:20:02.200,0:20:06.840
Harvard Lums some government official came to
me he said we invited you here and you you're
0:20:06.840,0:20:12.400
such a rebel wearing all of that red he did not
know that I was a class Marshall and and let me
0:20:12.400,0:20:17.320
stay with that for one more tony I announ these
things not as any way it it was a fortune I I I
0:20:17.320,0:20:23.360
I Grew From that but it took years to peel
back a lot of that to discover my identity
0:20:23.360,0:20:30.440
at the core of that and that was work and that
was pain but I'm I'm I'm grateful that impeding
0:20:30.440,0:20:35.680
it back I was able to hold on to what for me
I value from that experience but believe me
0:20:35.680,0:20:41.360
it took some peeling back indeed it did so when
you say it took some peeling back what do you
0:20:41.360,0:20:47.280
mean by that can you share a little bit more yeah
if I can um when I went to juliard that was sort
0:20:47.280,0:20:51.400
the beginning of it I was in the American Opera
theater there right up to Harvard that was my
0:20:51.400,0:21:00.560
first time having to confront that I really didn't
have the emotional maturity that perhaps I would
0:21:00.560,0:21:04.800
have developed had I gone to a state school
or whatever I'd been so protected by Harvard
0:21:04.800,0:21:09.720
and it its traditions and it's money and all
of that and now I'm thrown into the pot with
0:21:09.720,0:21:16.520
you know hardworking opera singers who you know
you know take no prisoners and I had I did not
0:21:16.520,0:21:24.880
have the emotional um solidity to be able to to
confront that in in a way that was anything but
0:21:24.880,0:21:29.560
painful it was a very difficult time for me and
I ended up leaving juli art after a year make a
0:21:29.560,0:21:36.200
long story very short even though I went back
later to complete um you that operatic program
0:21:36.200,0:21:41.960
I just didn't have the maturity emotional
maturity emotional uh in int intelligence
0:21:41.960,0:21:46.760
whatever you may call it to confront New York
and what it meant to be a young black person on
0:21:46.760,0:21:51.680
the streets of New York I had nothing to prepare
me for that nothing wow and and and and which is
0:21:51.680,0:21:59.760
interesting because growing up poor in St Louis
which your mother probably was scrapping you know
0:21:59.760,0:22:05.840
just to be able to take care of you and your and
your and your siblings um and then I mean that
0:22:05.840,0:22:11.920
takes a lot of that's an attitude itself right in
terms of scrapping in terms of you know whatever
0:22:11.920,0:22:16.240
comes up going she's going out slaying lions
and then coming home and and taking care of
0:22:16.240,0:22:23.560
you guys so none of that kind of passed on to you
if I'm hearing you correctly because you were jet
0:22:23.560,0:22:31.400
not jettison you were you know uh taken into the
bosom uh because of your talent into Harvard and
0:22:31.400,0:22:37.720
very well protected if I'm hearing you correctly
and everything was taken care of for you and then
0:22:37.720,0:22:45.360
after you graduated now you're out on the street
and it's every man for himself very much right
0:22:45.360,0:22:50.480
and and you're having a a hard time dealing with
that is that what I'm hearing totally you are and
0:22:50.480,0:22:55.520
I think you say none of it was passed on it was
passed on the growth was about clearing out the
0:22:55.520,0:23:03.880
debris of har and any number of other things and
again you know I'm a huge Harvard uh devote but
0:23:03.880,0:23:11.120
that aspect of Harvard if you will and that type
of cocoon it took me some time to sort of clear
0:23:11.120,0:23:16.680
that aside to understand exactly what was at the
core of what my mother taught me and what was that
0:23:16.680,0:23:23.080
what was that Decor that she taught you a kind
of self-reliance under extreme circumstances I'm
0:23:23.080,0:23:29.480
not telling a tale that you know we we've not all
experienced it time but it just took me a longer
0:23:29.480,0:23:36.960
while perhaps to get there and to understand
that at the end of the day what you are who
0:23:36.960,0:23:43.040
you are what you value has got to be where you
where you where you plant your flag nothing else
0:23:43.040,0:23:49.800
will will work and I'm not clear that I got that
right long time that day you know that telephone
0:23:49.800,0:23:55.520
call to my mother was the beginning of that right
but it took me a while to just to connect the dots
0:23:55.520,0:24:01.240
if you will right right and you know I I it's
it's it's interesting the way you position that
0:24:01.240,0:24:08.360
because I you know and if thank you for sharing I
think that's a struggle we all and maybe not into
0:24:08.360,0:24:17.280
your um particular story but I think you know a
lot of times you know you could it for you to be
0:24:17.280,0:24:24.080
able to to to self-reflect and really like you
said peel the onion back and really look deep
0:24:24.080,0:24:32.000
within in terms of yeah I went here I had this
opportunity um but the end of the day it's not
0:24:32.000,0:24:41.640
really all who I am right it's it's an experience
I take some stuff out of it it helped me open in
0:24:41.640,0:24:48.400
some areas it helped me grow but in other areas
it didn't help me grow is that what I'm me are we
0:24:48.400,0:24:54.880
on the same page my friend we are maybe a slight
Nuance of difference would be a slight shade of
0:24:54.880,0:25:00.880
difference between it all helped me grow got
I just had to come to a better understanding
0:25:00.880,0:25:08.000
of of self-awareness around how the crevices
I was creating for myself and the things that
0:25:08.000,0:25:12.280
really were leveraging growth you know and I don't
mean to speak in sort of coaching terms but that's
0:25:12.280,0:25:16.120
really came down to and again I'm talking you know
experience forward learn backwards it took a lot
0:25:16.120,0:25:20.920
of I'm continuing on I'm on that learning curve
still but you come to this point where you go
0:25:20.920,0:25:29.640
okay guess what you still got stuff to figure
out cotton you want you still got to go out
0:25:29.640,0:25:35.200
tomorrow and pick some more and little by little
your your your bag will be as full as it's going
0:25:35.200,0:25:41.080
to be and if it's not who you going to blame not
your mother not Harvard not anybody else I don't
0:25:41.080,0:25:46.400
mean to be flip around it but I really do feel
that way no no no I love that I mean and and look
0:25:46.400,0:25:52.040
I think that is awesome you were saying a minute
ago that you were in juliard you went to juliard
0:25:52.040,0:25:57.040
and then you left all right you didn't finish you
came back and finished later what what happened
0:25:57.040,0:26:03.840
there I went downstairs one day at jewelry yard
feeling miserable about something and uh and uh
0:26:03.840,0:26:09.280
I was at a a news kiosk and this man know you're
in New York some dude walking up to you that you
0:26:09.280,0:26:14.040
know you wonder what's going on there and he said
are you an actor I said no I'm not an actor you
0:26:14.040,0:26:20.240
know I go to juliard he said I'm a director and
I'm doing a play off Broadway called shoes I'll
0:26:20.240,0:26:24.800
never forget it and boy when I pick when I
think of one of the roles you dead on for it
0:26:24.800,0:26:29.360
I said well I'm not an actor he said would you
come down anyway and and talked to us so I went
0:26:29.360,0:26:34.520
down and you know they hired me to do this play
it was an Off Broadway play equity and I quit
0:26:34.520,0:26:43.320
juliard the next day wow again I had no emotional
intelligence I had no way of of thinking through
0:26:43.320,0:26:51.120
these things with any type of real strategy it
felt good to do it and not done it so you quit
0:26:51.120,0:26:59.280
juliard to do this off Broadway play on a wh and
an agent saw me in the play loved me signed me on
0:26:59.280,0:27:07.320
and and again came to another Crossroads sent me
out to to uh uh Indiana as a guest artist to do
0:27:07.320,0:27:13.960
a play there to start a play there and to give
lectures and all that and whilst I was there uh
0:27:13.960,0:27:18.000
they learned they they knew I had sung I was
asked to sing at someone's home at some sort
0:27:18.000,0:27:23.360
of dinner party at that dinner party was this
woman who was a conductor from New York and she
0:27:23.360,0:27:28.720
said oh no you need to be on the operatic stage
do you know I got back to New York and I went
0:27:28.720,0:27:33.480
to my agent and I said uh I don't want to do this
anymore he said dude you ever hear thing called a
0:27:33.480,0:27:40.840
contract but she was kind enough to let me go and
of course by the time I reached out to this woman
0:27:40.840,0:27:45.800
who said I'm going to make your career she said
no I don't make careers of only big people so was
0:27:45.800,0:27:51.600
all cocktail talk meanwhile I had no nothing to
go on but that was literally how I sort of went
0:27:51.600,0:27:56.760
back to Har then I had decided I was going to
run away to England and go to the Royal Academy
0:27:56.760,0:28:01.880
of Music that that's how I made decisions I'm
going to do it so I did it I went to England I
0:28:01.880,0:28:05.800
sort of went to the door of the Royal Academy
of Music or Royal conservative I start i' like
0:28:05.800,0:28:09.880
I'd like to go to school here I'd like to learn
here they said sir that's not how we do things
0:28:09.880,0:28:14.040
you you'll have to wait for the regular audition
season I said no but you really must hear me say
0:28:14.040,0:28:20.640
they heard me they accepted me I got a great job
there in like two days being a uh an assistant
0:28:20.640,0:28:25.120
to a fellow who was in The Diplomatic Corp but
who also had gone to Harvard that was that con
0:28:25.120,0:28:30.200
that that connection there I got chicken feet two
days before I was supposed to start my program at
0:28:30.200,0:28:35.040
the Royal conservatory and I came and I quit
everything and came back to America can you
0:28:35.040,0:28:39.480
believe that I had auditioned for the Curtis
Institute of Music in Philadelphia for their
0:28:39.480,0:28:45.000
Opera program they were already auditioning people
to take the place of the one I had abandoned and
0:28:45.000,0:28:51.080
they let me in anyway that sort of got me back
into the Opera totally nonsense you wouldn't want
0:28:51.080,0:28:57.440
to write about it well I mean but to be fair and
again the way I'm the what I'm hearing is is is
0:28:57.440,0:29:03.760
seems like a lot of things came easy for you no no
they didn't they came stupidly for me well I mean
0:29:03.760,0:29:09.840
but but to be fair though you're making decisions
people you know I mean Harvard hey you're a great
0:29:09.840,0:29:15.960
singer juli art you know your your your coach is
go you go there right then you all of a sudden
0:29:15.960,0:29:22.640
get an opportunity to be on stage and you get an
opportunity to and so you're making decisions just
0:29:22.640,0:29:29.400
based on what's coming up right in your life
versus having any type commitment or strategy
0:29:29.400,0:29:35.760
or anything like that I have the clarity of mine
now to recognize I wasn't making decisions I was
0:29:35.760,0:29:42.800
rolling with the punches as a were and I'm not
clear that would have should have could that it's
0:29:42.800,0:29:48.160
pointless to do that but as I've gotten older and
worked with other people I recognize that there's
0:29:48.160,0:29:56.480
a big difference between making a a a thoughtful
decision and just saying okay today and for many
0:29:56.480,0:30:03.400
years that's what I was doing not doing myself
you know I I'm grateful for all those experiences
0:30:03.400,0:30:10.680
but I also recognize that a lot of that was just
stumbling through so what what woke you up what
0:30:10.680,0:30:16.640
made you you know have this Epiphany in terms of
you know what I'm just you doing stuff on a whim
0:30:16.640,0:30:22.480
I need to you know be a little bit more serious
concrete I need to understand more about me what
0:30:22.480,0:30:27.920
what was the Epiphany what was the turning point
I'm not clear I've ever had one after five years
0:30:27.920,0:30:32.520
and I was singing a lot though you know you know
you sing some you you know you're impoverished
0:30:32.520,0:30:36.920
for the next four months you sing some more sort
of thing when I I came back to New York I thought
0:30:36.920,0:30:42.400
I should and I wanted a plan B I was at least
smart enough to think that I wanted a plan B
0:30:42.400,0:30:47.640
not incidentally something I would recommend for
committed artist you don't need a plan B all your
0:30:47.640,0:30:52.320
plan is here it's in that music but I wanted a
plan B that was the downside of having gone to
0:30:52.320,0:30:56.680
a place like Harvard you know somebody had a an
American Express card and I wanted one of those
0:30:56.680,0:31:01.360
sort of things so I got into Columbia into their
business school although they were not going to
0:31:01.360,0:31:07.840
accept me because they said well you're uh your
your your your your thinking is fine but their
0:31:07.840,0:31:12.400
Mass skills are suffering would you be willing
to delay to defer coming to Columbia for a half
0:31:12.400,0:31:20.440
a year and take I don't know what it was calculus
I said God no I definitely won't get in after that
0:31:20.440,0:31:26.920
we'll take him anyway my game plan was to go to
Columbia get an NBA hahaa and then put that in my
0:31:26.920,0:31:31.720
back pocket and go back onto the operatic States
that's literally what I thought I would do City
0:31:31.720,0:31:37.000
Bank had other plans for me they said well that's
really great you go and S it to met all you want
0:31:37.000,0:31:42.600
but we want those student loans to begin in the
month so that's how City B bang had a different
0:31:42.600,0:31:48.120
plan they want their money Che so I had to get
a job so and the rest is history and here I
0:31:48.120,0:31:59.440
am so listen so when you say the rest is history
because you got your NBA uh uh at Columbia I did
0:31:59.440,0:32:05.880
and then you transition into HR am I correct
so that was pretty much prob I was going to
0:32:05.880,0:32:11.520
be able to do I had no Finance skills or or any
of that sort of thing or strategy skills and I
0:32:11.520,0:32:16.440
I shouldn't do myself I should do myself some
purpose I you had an instinct around you know
0:32:16.440,0:32:23.040
what HR was about at the time so it made sense
that I would get an HR job yes wow and then so
0:32:23.040,0:32:30.200
so let's let's just back up a little bit right
we're talking Opera we're talking Harvard we're
0:32:30.200,0:32:37.920
talking you know a stage actor we're talking you
know traveling around the world singing with and
0:32:37.920,0:32:45.560
and NBA in Colombia and now you're going to
be in Corporate America doing HR so so tell
0:32:45.560,0:32:51.600
us a little because I mean that that's a that's
a different little little journey there the only
0:32:51.600,0:32:58.120
that hadn't changed as much as it might was Jim
Jones unfortunately like how so to me being in
0:32:58.120,0:33:05.120
HR was you know being in corporate was you had
a Coach bag you were Gucci you know you had uh
0:33:05.120,0:33:10.600
Brooks Brothers tassel loafers you had suspenders
and a and a self-tied bow tie and you wore a
0:33:10.600,0:33:15.520
Burberry that's what I thought you were supposed
to do oh I looked the part very much but I but
0:33:15.520,0:33:23.920
again I I still didn't I didn't recognize that
now now I do didn't have that type of of of of
0:33:23.920,0:33:30.040
awareness breath of experience that would protect
me that would guide me through successfully a lot
0:33:30.040,0:33:34.760
of those early experiences in Corporate America I
was not successful at that point in my career in
0:33:34.760,0:33:42.040
Corporate America not at all so you and again
I I I I love your fashion um um ideas I mean
0:33:42.040,0:33:47.600
when I first got the corporate America I had a
cheap suit I had some shoes that needed to be
0:33:47.600,0:33:54.720
shined you know I had a Raggedy belt okay and
so so your your your idea of corporate America
0:33:54.720,0:34:01.040
from a fashion standpoint is woo I I love it I
love love it you were saying though you still
0:34:01.040,0:34:07.680
you know wasn't um and I want to use the word
complete you still didn't have a understanding
0:34:07.680,0:34:14.080
of what it took to become successful in Corporate
America so so where did you find that how did you
0:34:14.080,0:34:22.360
find yourself because you know and look the the
gym I met you know and in full transparency um
0:34:22.360,0:34:28.560
you know I went to namic Executive leadership
uh development program uh at the University of
0:34:28.560,0:34:35.160
Virginia at Darden School of Business um which
was an eight-month program which was great and
0:34:35.160,0:34:40.520
then I think um one time one day they came in
and said you're gonna meet this guy named Jim
0:34:40.520,0:34:47.800
Jones James Jones and he's a life coach executive
coach and you know uh we have I think we have a
0:34:47.800,0:34:51.600
couple of them so we're going to split him up
he's going to work with some of you guys and
0:34:51.600,0:34:56.880
somebody else is going to work with some of the
others I ended up getting the Short Straw yeah so
0:35:00.160,0:35:06.000
I got Jim and it was one of the greatest
experiences the greatest thing that that
0:35:06.000,0:35:13.960
that happened to me I mean I learned so much
from you you helped me understand my identity
0:35:13.960,0:35:20.120
issues my sensitivity struggles and stuff to
that nature so when I hear your story which
0:35:20.120,0:35:25.480
is great right and then I'm hearing that Tony
I was just I didn't even I was just doing stuff
0:35:25.480,0:35:31.000
based on a whim I was didn't have no emotional
you know uh uh sophistication when it came to
0:35:31.000,0:35:36.160
emotional intelligence I wasn't mature enough
you know I came to Corporate America and really
0:35:36.160,0:35:42.280
didn't understand success and then I sat here and
learned and and a bunch of my classmates you know
0:35:42.280,0:35:50.120
Nicole uh excuse me Danielle Scarboro you know
you know Nicole husband Sean they all love you
0:35:50.120,0:35:55.160
we all have learned a lot from you so I want to
dive into that you know you said hey I wasn't
0:35:55.160,0:36:02.920
ready to become successful what what what what
took you to that next level oh gosh that's so
0:36:02.920,0:36:08.000
hard to answer because again there was not sort
of a wake it was not like the time you know the
0:36:08.000,0:36:13.640
telephone call to my mother I think over time
you s of wake up or you go you know uh forever
0:36:13.640,0:36:19.800
to sleep sort of thing and just coming coming to
terms with my own authenticity if that makes any
0:36:19.800,0:36:30.000
sense um coming to terms with my own need to to
connect with what I was doing connect Who I Am
0:36:30.000,0:36:35.760
with what I was doing and those are not the same
things always uh and being at at at peace around
0:36:35.760,0:36:40.040
all of that again it's a rich process I can't say
that I'm there every day but I think I'm pretty
0:36:40.040,0:36:45.520
close to being there for the most time even was
just an an acceptance of that and also being in
0:36:45.520,0:36:55.240
a in a in in even in a corporate environment where
I felt validated I felt yeah grounded and all of
0:36:55.240,0:37:00.840
that and it was simply my time to be there and
and and and have that experience to me so when
0:37:00.840,0:37:06.600
you say validated what what what what was the when
you say validated like what do you mean validated
0:37:06.600,0:37:11.680
for you what does that mean well I don't want to
get too raw for your audience there but no no no
0:37:11.680,0:37:17.720
no this is a black executive perspective we want
to get wrong I I I don't don't play basketball
0:37:17.720,0:37:24.520
and and all that things and I know I talk funny
and I read Jane Austin novels and all of that and
0:37:24.520,0:37:32.080
you know and and and and and in my mind feeling
okay with all of that not only okay with it but
0:37:32.080,0:37:38.000
feeling that okay this is my Center this defines
me here it is take it or leave it can I shift and
0:37:38.000,0:37:42.160
speak French if you speak French of course I can
but at the end of the day I'm going to go back
0:37:42.160,0:37:54.400
to being Jim Jones and it's going to be a welcome
to you to join me there but I won't I won't there
0:37:54.400,0:37:59.880
aspects of myself I was no longer willing to
to to to to sacrifice for that and I think I
0:37:59.880,0:38:05.000
must have been doing that again hindsight's 2020
did I come to that in the middle of the night one
0:38:05.000,0:38:11.440
day but over time uh I had to recognize that oh
I was going to die quite frankly that I needed to
0:38:11.440,0:38:18.200
make some to take a stand around my identities
as it were you know there are several and and
0:38:18.200,0:38:23.880
and and be okay around those and I am that is
awesome my friend and listen I know you know as
0:38:23.880,0:38:29.400
I'm listening to you I get goosebumps I'm you
know know the audience there's a all there's a
0:38:29.400,0:38:34.680
plenty of people who've been in that situation I
can speak for myself you know I always felt that
0:38:34.680,0:38:43.160
I I needed to you know be somebody else to be
liked to be accepted to to to be successful and
0:38:43.160,0:38:50.360
and I struggle just being me you know people see
me as this gregarious you know fun you know high
0:38:50.360,0:38:55.800
energy and at times I am that right but there
and you and I chat you've helped me with this
0:38:55.800,0:39:00.960
and there's times I'm just quiet I'm shy I don't
want to say nothing to nobody I don't want to be
0:39:00.960,0:39:09.400
B and you know I had to accept that so let me ask
you this you know there's a lot of professionals
0:39:09.400,0:39:18.000
that deal with with that that really peeling
back the onion to see not only who they are
0:39:18.000,0:39:25.840
but to accept who they are what recommendations
would you have for them and again I don't want to
0:39:25.840,0:39:32.480
be arrogant enough to to say to someone do this or
do that uh because I don't think it's that easily
0:39:32.480,0:39:38.400
packaged number one but a big part of it was
understanding that this is who I am and I want
0:39:38.400,0:39:44.280
to really spend some time and some courage around
understanding that and and going as deep as I can
0:39:44.280,0:39:49.960
with this this is what I do what's the alignment
that's possible because there always going to be
0:39:49.960,0:39:57.960
tradeoffs there there always going to be aspects
of myself which I need to I'll be required to to
0:39:57.960,0:40:05.200
place aside for a moment it's when it's becoming
um a function of of placing aside and forgetting
0:40:05.200,0:40:09.880
it and not going back to it and not reconnecting
with it that I know I'm in trouble and you will
0:40:09.880,0:40:14.480
be in trouble black white or indifferent that
will happen and the pain will become such it
0:40:14.480,0:40:19.320
can't balance it that's when the stress becomes
distress and again I spoke of speaking French and
0:40:19.320,0:40:25.040
France it's you know yeah a lot of these things
are part of your tactic I know that tomorrow in
0:40:25.040,0:40:30.840
order to be accepted by this audience and
validated by these particular circumstances
0:40:30.840,0:40:37.560
and and to be able to have that Propel me towards
my goal my business goals I need to wear Burberry
0:40:37.560,0:40:42.520
I need to wear telop it doesn't mean I'm not
being who I am it's saying this is a strategy
0:40:42.520,0:40:49.360
this is a tactic it's when the tactics and and the
strategies overtake your sense of of of well-being
0:40:49.360,0:40:55.000
that you're in trouble and it can happen I'm not
saying on any given day but over time you can be
0:40:55.000,0:41:01.720
so consumed by you know the the the aspect of it
all so if I'm hearing I hate to simplify it but if
0:41:01.720,0:41:09.280
I'm hear I'm hearing a b a word balance right
because at the end of the day we you know let
0:41:09.280,0:41:17.800
me back up for a second sure what I'm hearing
is the I'm me well let me use me as example so
0:41:17.800,0:41:26.800
Tony there's you are you however there's times
where you need to from a strategic standpoint be
0:41:26.800,0:41:35.360
able to do this right because this audience needs
you to be this all right the challenge is is nine
0:41:35.360,0:41:43.240
times out of 10 we get Lo we we we lose balance
where now where I'm I'm placating this audience
0:41:43.240,0:41:50.160
to be this I become that all the time and I
forget my Center in terms of who I really am
0:41:50.160,0:41:54.960
is that what I'm hearing Jim I definitely that's
a part of it Antonio part of me is the work of
0:41:54.960,0:42:00.080
that Center and and that's where the real work
goes on once you're there and understand that
0:42:00.080,0:42:08.000
and are are are are living in that Center of of
values and and and and and your pain and whatever
0:42:08.000,0:42:13.640
it may be you can do all the rest of that because
that's what you do I'm going across to this place
0:42:13.640,0:42:19.120
now what do I need to be successful there you've
always got a you you always got a a choice then
0:42:19.120,0:42:22.640
that's the other part of you will always have
a choice now it's easy for me to sit here in my
0:42:22.640,0:42:26.920
Brooklyn living room and talk about my choice and
you've got two girls to put through College as it
0:42:26.920,0:42:31.760
were but it's always a choice and there's always
going to be a premium there's always going to be
0:42:31.760,0:42:37.160
a premium there'll be a price tag on making some
of those adjustments to be successful in corporate
0:42:37.160,0:42:46.800
there'll be a premium on getting two um Imes in
in in in self-investigation what's the price teag
0:42:46.800,0:42:57.640
I'm willing to pay right right so you know you've
worked at um you've been an executive coach um um
0:42:57.640,0:43:05.160
life coach for for years now yes and obviously
every human being is different and you work
0:43:05.160,0:43:10.200
with a lot of people what some of the things that
you've seen or you worked with you can keep it at
0:43:10.200,0:43:17.120
a high level that you know professionals struggle
with in terms of corporate America and their and
0:43:17.120,0:43:26.080
their uh centered self I'm going to repeat myself
here the the what I do versus who I am conundrum
0:43:28.320,0:43:33.880
simplifying something that can be really really
wrenching for people it really can again of old
0:43:33.880,0:43:40.760
Stripes you know black white gay Strait you called
it that what I do versus who I am and is the is
0:43:40.760,0:43:50.280
the is the sacrifice to do this such that I am uh
annihilating who I am that's all you got the end
0:43:50.280,0:43:54.440
of the day I'm being incredibly simplistic and
perhaps that's I'm being so simplistic because
0:43:54.440,0:44:01.640
that's all I have to offer what I do who I
Who I Am where can those L what's the work
0:44:01.640,0:44:06.240
of getting those as much align as I can because
some that you have any control over what you do
0:44:06.240,0:44:15.400
have control over is to spend the the time to go
deep and have the courage to say what I am this is
0:44:15.400,0:44:21.080
who I am this is where I live and to say and you
know what I'm going to find an appropriate way of
0:44:21.080,0:44:29.520
sharing some of that with AA with those people I'm
going to mechanism for bringing the what I am to
0:44:29.520,0:44:36.480
what I do It's Tricky just strategic and tactical
around it you know but I love that though because
0:44:36.480,0:44:43.400
what you're saying is is that um it's important
to yeah I I I got to do what I got to do but if
0:44:43.400,0:44:50.080
I can start bringing who I am to what I'm to do
what I got to do then I'm not going to get lost up
0:44:50.080,0:44:54.880
in terms of what I got to do what I got to do my
Center is still going to be there and it's going
0:44:54.880,0:45:02.240
to be actually spilling over in terms of what I do
what I got to do what I got to do correct I would
0:45:02.240,0:45:08.320
say that more of what you are shows up anyway it
just may be a blind spot and you want to again
0:45:08.320,0:45:13.760
manage the narrative you want to understand what
that's all about what's showing up about me that
0:45:13.760,0:45:19.520
U others are experiencing and I want to understand
what that experience of them is all about and of
0:45:19.520,0:45:23.000
course you're going to get lost but you'll be
able to find your way back because you'll know
0:45:23.000,0:45:27.600
where you need to be and it's incredibly hard
work and never never stops and something is
0:45:27.600,0:45:35.520
always derailing you from that that course of
accent so let me ask you this in terms of you
0:45:35.520,0:45:41.920
know I I remember when you and I were chatting and
uh I was telling you a story and I was saying you
0:45:41.920,0:45:50.160
know one of the things I always struggle with
um is that I expect people to treat me the way
0:45:50.160,0:45:59.120
I treat them right if I'm doing the right things
to those individuals they see it and I'm expecting
0:45:59.120,0:46:05.200
in return that they do the exact same thing and
then I was looking for a sympathetic ear because
0:46:05.200,0:46:09.920
I was like this should be just this should be
just simple right and I was explaining that to
0:46:09.920,0:46:15.560
you and you looked at me and said Tony you can't
control what they do to you right can you talk
0:46:15.560,0:46:19.600
a little bit about that because I thought that
was eye openening for me well you just said it
0:46:19.600,0:46:28.080
Tony there good luck with your expectations but
it's also who that said I'm also not responsible
0:46:28.080,0:46:31.800
for what you think about me either so there
Comes This Moment you go you know I'm doing
0:46:31.800,0:46:39.000
as best I can and it's authentically as I can
and as in alignment with our goals and our our
0:46:39.000,0:46:48.400
our our our shared outcomes as I can beyond that
okay and again I'm being overly overly simplistic
0:46:48.400,0:46:53.600
because I have nobody to take care of but me and
my you know my Whole Foods Bill and those other
0:46:53.600,0:46:59.640
considerations and complex aspects of Life all
kick in but still at the end of the day this is
0:46:59.640,0:47:05.720
it I'm doing as best I can I'm as confident as
I can I'm as authentic as I can and again what
0:47:05.720,0:47:11.560
I hoped we picked up on was that you've said it
as well as I could possibly you have no way of
0:47:11.560,0:47:16.560
knowing what I perceive from you you have no way
of knowing what I need from you unless we built
0:47:16.560,0:47:21.560
the kind of relationship and I've understood
myself well enough and I'm courageous enough
0:47:21.560,0:47:27.280
with myself that I say Tony this is what I need
from you the moment Look to You to satisfy that
0:47:27.280,0:47:35.720
need I'm in big trouble your dear wife your lovely
children double A none of us can do that for you
0:47:35.720,0:47:42.800
that core need you have to do for yourself it's a
lonely place to be but that's all you got because
0:47:42.800,0:47:49.480
the moment you get to that place where you take
responsibility for those core needs the rest is
0:47:49.480,0:47:55.040
going to fall into place it's going to fall into
the place it was meant to fall into right right so
0:47:55.040,0:48:02.360
in other words you know be satisfied with what
you do who you are and don't worry about what
0:48:02.360,0:48:08.440
other people do and or more importantly what they
don't do do you mind if I give a different slight
0:48:08.440,0:48:17.480
shading to that please please my friend about
satisfaction be sure of the work you're doing
0:48:17.480,0:48:23.960
to be as much Tony Franklin as you can the most
authentic Tony Franklin the most self-aware Tony
0:48:23.960,0:48:30.840
Franklin the most grounded Tony Franklin that
you can be the other has to at the end of the
0:48:30.840,0:48:36.040
day take care of itself it may not take care of
itself in the way that you might have you know
0:48:36.040,0:48:41.160
put in your you know your fiveyear plan but Tony
it's all you got the the the other side of that
0:48:41.160,0:48:47.960
is just a lot of pain it may be an extra trip
to to uh Martha's Vineyard but what you got at
0:48:47.960,0:48:51.680
the end of the day and again I'm not knocking any
of that those are wonderful things to have this
0:48:51.680,0:49:00.680
is the man with the Burberry remember that it's
is it really worth the the the the the the wear
0:49:00.680,0:49:06.600
and tear on you on your relationships on your
sense of selfworth maybe I say that because I
0:49:06.600,0:49:11.400
never had those things but uh not you know you
know the the the Martha's Vineyard at home but
0:49:11.400,0:49:17.840
uh I I can't I have to believe that that's where
it starts and that's where that's that's what the
0:49:17.840,0:49:22.520
journey is all about going from you to you I read
in a book somewhere a quote that I thought was so
0:49:22.520,0:49:28.960
powerful is who am I and what would it take to
be I am that was powerful stuff very powerful
0:49:28.960,0:49:37.360
that is powerful and and and and piggybacking on
that the road from me to me and ultimately to me
0:49:37.360,0:49:42.600
how do you how do you define that what does that
mean I don't know it sounded good when I wrote
0:49:42.600,0:49:51.320
it you know what I mean Jane Austin that day and
I thought that's kind of cool hey hey so are you
0:49:51.320,0:49:58.600
smart if I put it like that so are are are you
are you no matter what you went through or no
0:49:58.600,0:50:04.160
matter what I go through or no matter what
doublea goes through or our audience the the
0:50:04.160,0:50:13.960
journeys the ups and downs the indecisions the
decisions that's you absolutely is and that's
0:50:13.960,0:50:18.920
a lonely thing sometime to accept but it still
is what it is it still is what it is and again
0:50:18.920,0:50:24.480
you want love in your life you want Connection in
your life you want access to others in your life
0:50:24.480,0:50:31.200
of course and have them access to you but at the
end of the day it's all about the work you doing
0:50:31.200,0:50:36.960
about Tony Franklin about dable a about Jim Joe
just all we got it's not always a scary thing to
0:50:36.960,0:50:43.680
have to to contemplate but there it is let let
me let me throw this at you one of the things
0:50:43.680,0:50:51.640
that we struggle with uh and you said this word
a few times um self-aware a self-awareness one
0:50:51.640,0:50:56.600
of the things that we struggle with there's
a lot of people who are not self-aware Ware
0:50:56.600,0:51:02.560
or they when they look in the mirror they are
self-aware but they don't like what they see
0:51:02.560,0:51:07.480
oh and not that right and then they go back to
going back to your point about being who you
0:51:07.480,0:51:14.160
need to be for a certain audience they rather
being that Arena yeah versus being in their
0:51:14.160,0:51:19.440
own looking in the mirror Arena what would you
say to those individuals okay I'm I'm just not
0:51:19.440,0:51:25.560
want to give advice because I struggle I get
it I get it I get it it's it's it's again to
0:51:25.560,0:51:31.800
repeat myself it's all you got it's all you
got and if you can do play that other do that
0:51:31.800,0:51:41.280
other thing without causing yourself infinite
pain great be successful there but at the end
0:51:41.280,0:51:47.720
of the day what do you have to go back to
what is the work you've done to say I live
0:51:47.720,0:51:59.880
here and I'm grateful for living there ah yeah I
mean listen it it can be yeah well you know what
0:51:59.880,0:52:04.400
at the end of the day I think you know and
that's why I'm so excited that you're here
0:52:04.400,0:52:09.760
just being able to reflect look back I mean you
sharing your story today and you're like look it
0:52:09.760,0:52:15.080
took me years to look back and say I wasn't
here or I wasn't ready for this or you know
0:52:15.080,0:52:20.680
I was making decisions based on this or calling
your mother up and saying hey guess what I know
0:52:20.680,0:52:26.640
I'm gone I know I'm you know a grown man now and
living abroad or whatever but guess what I just
0:52:26.640,0:52:31.080
want to let you know I got you I know what you
were going through I know what you were dealing
0:52:31.080,0:52:38.480
with right so I guess those light bulbs uh come
up uh you know come bright at some point in our
0:52:38.480,0:52:46.120
lives and more importantly when they do come
bright we acknowledge them yes well my friend
0:52:46.120,0:52:50.760
go ahead finish your thought you want to make
sure when you get back home you are there for
0:52:50.760,0:52:59.000
you how about that that is that is awesome so
tell me what the future holds for you huh don't
0:52:59.000,0:53:05.400
know future defined in what I'll have for dinner
this afternoon or I'm a coach as I say I love my
0:53:05.400,0:53:11.280
work uh you know we we're always hoping for you
know that next fascinating interesting contract
0:53:11.280,0:53:18.080
we all do that we may say we don't but we do but
I'm very grateful uh so one of the things you and
0:53:18.080,0:53:23.480
I I wanted to ask you about this and I forgot you
were able to meet James Balwin is that correct I
0:53:23.480,0:53:29.640
did tell us tell us about that experience when the
last time I went to Europe to stay any period of
0:53:29.640,0:53:36.040
time I'd gone over I already knew that I was going
to go back to business school but I had uh I some
0:53:36.040,0:53:40.480
producers came over from Paris and they were
looking for and I heard about this through you
0:53:40.480,0:53:48.320
know my former Arts uh Network they were looking
for a young black African-American male who spoke
0:53:48.320,0:53:56.600
fluent French and who had a background in music
I thought I got this y'all and being New York of
0:53:56.600,0:54:02.200
course you go and there's a there's a there's
a line five you know five blocks long of all
0:54:02.200,0:54:08.280
descriptions and you go how you gonna be black
but you know what you hire me and I'll figure
0:54:08.280,0:54:15.880
that out and I'm not mad at somehow got job
he said it was a line so long all the way down
0:54:15.880,0:54:21.880
New York not know that that's that whole acting
World anyway I I did get that role so I went over
0:54:21.880,0:54:28.520
to Europe and was there for six months in Paris
narrated a a show called The Gospel Caravan and
0:54:28.520,0:54:34.560
uh James bwood had written it in conjunction with
a French author by the name of malol Y and it was
0:54:34.560,0:54:40.080
about the history of gospel music and they so
they had brought up all these gospel stars and
0:54:40.080,0:54:47.000
who through through music told the story of gospel
and I narrated it in French so that was wow and he
0:54:47.000,0:54:51.840
came to some of the early rehearsals he did
indeed did you guys hang out at all oh yeah
0:54:51.840,0:54:57.640
right I mean you made it you were right there
I figed that you would be able to hang out with
0:54:57.640,0:55:02.320
him I don't think
0:55:02.320,0:55:11.160
so very funny oh well look my friend
it's been a blessing to have you on um
0:55:11.160,0:55:13.160
final thoughts for the audience
where do you want to leave the
0:55:13.160,0:55:26.280
audience know be you cuz ain't nobody else out
there has occupied that particular booth well
0:55:26.280,0:55:31.120
I can tell you this you were you tonight and
really appreciate it you've been a blessing in
0:55:31.120,0:55:37.040
my life and I can imagine to countless hundreds
of others you've really touched a lot of people
0:55:37.040,0:55:42.640
in terms of helping them self-identify deal
with the minutia that we all deal with in our
0:55:42.640,0:55:48.760
head so I love you a lot you you I'm a big fan
of yours and listen if somebody's listening to
0:55:48.760,0:55:54.240
this and they like hey I love I would love to
connect with Jim Jones and sit down and just
0:55:54.240,0:56:00.120
you know chat about you know myself and Corporate
America and how I can you know take my game to the
0:56:00.120,0:56:04.800
next level where would they be able to reach
you probably the best is at LinkedIn James C
0:56:04.800,0:56:10.520
Jones and you'll see my company name there and
reach out I would love to have that conversation
0:56:10.520,0:56:17.960
well I hope they do um because at the end of the
day you like I said are fantastic I'm glad we're
0:56:17.960,0:56:24.400
friends as it's been a blessing my friend so
thanks a lot for appearing and sharing your
0:56:24.400,0:56:29.800
story as well as you know a lot of great uh
antidotes and Solutions on a black executive
0:56:29.800,0:56:36.760
perspective podcast thanks to you both God
bless have a wonderful holiday awesome thank
0:56:36.760,0:56:45.440
you so I hope you enjoyed today's episode the
road from me to me and ultimately to me with
0:56:45.440,0:56:52.240
Jim Jones he was fantastic outstanding loved
that he shared his story and then obviously
0:56:52.240,0:56:58.040
he talked about the self-discovery that he had
um which was great so based on that I'm going
0:56:58.040,0:57:06.360
to go into Tony's tidbit and today's tidbit is
by Miles Monroe the greatest discovery in life
0:57:06.360,0:57:16.640
is self-discovery until you find yourself you will
always be someone else always be yourself and that
0:57:16.640,0:57:23.360
was by Miles Monroe so thanks again for tuning
in to another uh episode of a black executive
0:57:23.360,0:57:29.760
perspective podcast please go to our website at a
www a black executive perspective podcast to sign
0:57:29.760,0:57:35.080
up for updates uh we're going to be launching
our monthly newsletter soon please leave us a
0:57:35.080,0:57:42.840
review how did you like this episode how did you
like Jim do you have additional questions for Jim
0:57:42.840,0:57:48.480
please don't hesitate to give us a rating and if
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0:57:48.480,0:57:58.760
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0:57:58.760,0:58:11.360
Tony tidbit be for our great guest Jim C Jones
our executive producer doublea I'm Tony tidbit
0:58:11.360,0:58:18.200
I love you a lot we talked about it now we're
out thank you for tuning in to this episode of
0:58:18.200,0:58:25.560
Tony tidbit a black executive perspective and
for joining in today's conversation with every
0:58:25.560,0:58:32.400
story We Share every conversation we Foster
and every barrier we address we can ignite the
0:58:32.400,0:58:38.960
Sparks that bring about lasting change and this
carries us one step closer to transforming the
0:58:38.960,0:58:44.680
face of corporate America if today's episode
resonated with you consider subscribing and
0:58:44.680,0:58:52.280
leaving us a reading or review on Apple podcast
Spotify or wherever you get your podcast share
0:58:52.280,0:58:57.520
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0:58:57.520,0:59:00.960
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