Let me just tell a quick, quick story at the end. So this is, this is how I, I want, I was thinking about starting and iron L Salvador, and we're at one of these pre event things before adopting started and I don't, I don't, I don't usually walk up to someone and say, Hey, do you homeschool? Like, I don't, like, I don't just do that to anybody, but somehow we got onto that conversation and normally we tell people we have four kids. They go, Oh. Wow. Right. Cause on both sides of our family, we're the, we're the, the family unit that has the most kids.

And then

Jason just complete, complete trump card. He goes, let me show you this picture

and

it's got your six kids. And I was at Halloween, Jason. What was the, what was the occasion where you had all the special shirts on there?

so we went to the Hoddleween, um, a party in, uh, down, uh, near Atlanta,

Yep.

and, uh, we wanted to, uh, dress up as something that would be matching for all of us. And so, um, uh, uh, she didn't go and our little now one year old didn't go. Um, he wasn't one year old yet back then in October. But, uh, um, But yeah, myself and my five oldest, uh, all dressed up in orange shirts with a white symbol, like a, like an icon on the front and then a matching word on the back. So we had, and these words were, uh, listeners may, may catch on to what this is, things like scarcity, immutability, divisibility, portability. There are all these different, uh, qualities of sound money. Uh, and so it was like, yeah, there's six of us. Well, there's one, um, Oh, yeah, we didn't do fungibility, because I know there's like the book The Seventh Property, it talks about that. But I was portability because I was the driver, driving everybody down there. We were joking that if, uh, if all of us had been able to go, then our, our now one year old would be portability because he is just crawling and scooching all over the place really fast. Uh, and then, uh, both she and I together would be, uh, fungibility. Or, uh, because if you have one, you have

get one again, get the other one. Nice.

Very

Well, it's just so cool though. Six, six kids is awesome. We originally wanted to have six and, and so just, I just can't imagine

the dynamics

in the house. We had a little tighter shot group than you.

They were pretty tight. They were pretty tight. Yeah.

Now with a one year old they're not

well, mine is the one you know,

Yeah, we have five. Five between 17 and, uh, and 10.

Yeah, five in seven years

So five really close, one very distant.

Right if they're really close you're going to that you're going to costo or wherever you go and you're and you're just going I need Size whatever diapers this diaper this diaper you get it all at once

Yeah,

and then when you're done with diapers You're like I never want to do that again. But now if you have a break Like that's the part I don't, I can't relate to because now you're like, oh man, like I

I Can't redo that. I feel like it would be more fun because you would have more help And you would have all the lessons you learned from the the other five that That you didn't know when the five were little so I think I think I I would have had fun with that Um, we had four kids in four years Not quite five it was less than five. Thank you very much. It was a year

Mommy knows.

Okay, listen, it was less than five. Wait, wait, that's another story. Okay, yes, but anyway. Here's where I'd

like to go though. So, Where did you guys start? Who, who had the idea for homeschooling? Did you do it with your oldest? Did you do it all the way through? Because homeschooling one kid, some people are, might be thinking, wow, that's really challenging.

You've

have six. So let's help us get inside your mind. Who, you have fungibility, which, whichever one of you, this was who, who initiated, who initiated the idea to homeschool? And like, that's, to me, it's fascinating. Six kids homeschooling like this.

Yeah. So, um, I think it was, uh, a little bit after we were married, Jason, uh, uh, uh, started talking about homeschooling and said, yeah, yeah, that it worked for him. Um, he, he did it some, uh, when he was, uh, uh, uh, teenager, right? Early,

Oh, baby's

one year old has just joined the call.

His first podcast. Yeah,

So, um, Hey, Jason suggested it to me I had been, uh, public school the whole way. And I'm thinking if I'm trying to put, if I'm trying to homeschool and teach them as much as I learned in public school, it's going to be too much. It's like, I can't do that, especially if we're going to have multiple kids. How am I going to do that? Cause they're all going to be learning different things at different times. And that's just. Going to be too much for me because, you know, I would want to do it and teach them everything that, you know, that, you know, that I had learned, like, I'm not sure I could do that. Um, but, uh, Jason was patient with me and he, uh, he kept on, you know, just, uh, very, uh, uh, encouraging it every once in a while. He warmed me up to the idea very well. And uh, I was like, you know what? It's not going to hurt to try it with our first. And so we, we started off basically like from, uh, From the beginning with our, with our youngest. And I was like, I started, we are our oldest, he was the youngest. Yeah, I, I started learning about different, uh, different resources, finding different things and, uh, just eased into it and it kind of took off and I never really considered after that, not doing it because it was so nice. It was so nice getting to spend so much time with our kids and that we were the ones who were having that opportunity to teach them and that closeness in our family that I feel like I didn't have, uh, in my family and Jason didn't have in his. And so we, we really have a very close knit family with very, um, strong connections because of, uh, being able to homeschool. It's been a great blessing for us.

Yeah.

Yeah, and if I can add to that real quick, it was, um, from our first child and early on, teaching him things just like, just basic things, how to share, what colors were, different numbers and letters and stuff. Starting with the super simple things, um, don't touch the stove, it's hot. And, uh, okay, now clean up your room. And it just built up from there till, okay, this is how you, like, later on, here's how you safely search for information on the internet. And later on, okay, well, here's some, okay, here's this, uh, website. Learn, learn, uh, like, we found some really good free homeschool resources online and, uh, and I used that. And when, when he was young, oh, when all of them were young, I looked forward to the day when they would be teaching me. Uh things that I didn't know that um, and our 17 will be 18 in in uh, um, april, uh, 17 year old Um, he knows so many more things especially about computer programming that I don't know. He's like Oh, yeah, I know a little bit of c and uh, html and javascript and i'm like, I know a little html And I wouldn't be able to do it right now. I have to refresh my mind but uh, Um, and so it's just you start small And you build it from there and it just flowed really naturally as things came up, as situations and opportunities to learn things just came up every day.

So you were pretty confident.

it sounds

to me, you were pretty confident when you went into this. You, you, you, you knew this was going to work.

like when you

said,

Yeah, I was pretty, pretty confident. Really, I just see it as, uh, parenting. I don't, I, personally, in my mind, I don't separate parenting from homeschooling. They are really one and the same. Uh, we have conversations around the dinner table about politics and about history, about, uh, uh, religion, not just our own, but other religions of the world, and, um, about Bitcoin, of course. Uh, and, uh, and, uh. Uh, I mean when we go we go on talking about lots of things and I I value their input It's not just me unless it's about bitcoin. Then it's me talking about it. But um, but when it's a lot of other things They are giving me their input. We're doing like our family scripture study and Our our second, uh child, uh, our 15 year old. He um, I'm almost 16, but um, uh, he he, um, He's uh inherited my gift of gab. Uh, he, he, uh, he talks a lot, just like I do. And, uh, and so he will give his, um, input all the time, uh, during our scripture study. And the vast majority of things are, I'm just blown away with, like, I didn't teach you that. You're, you're getting this on your own. Thank you. I'm taking notes by the way because you're teaching me

right.

Mm-hmm

ah, that is such a gratifying thing to happen when it when uh, what's the the line from uh, uh, The office my my well, well, it seems the turntables

Yeah.

The tables and

turned backwards.

I mean,

So the relationships, though, Talia and I have, we've talked about this a lot. This, this, this reoccurring

reoccurring theme of

that parent child bond. Mm hmm. And not, not having that, uh, separated. Did you guys have the support? I mean, it's easy now to say that

when

first started homeschooling, it was a challenge communicating to our respective sides of the family

What

were doing And it wasn't as easy to tell them some of these benefits. Did you guys have the support? Even though, so, I mean, even though you went through public, did your, was your family, Leanne, okay with,

think the first

with, with your decision?

Um, there were, it was kind of a mix. My, uh, my dad every once in a while will quiz the kids to see what they know.

Trust and verify. Don't trust. Verify.

Yeah, well, he, he has, he has his standard that he expects them to know, but it's interesting how much they know that he doesn't. So, they might not have their multiplication tables memorized when he wants them to rattle them off. But they have all these insights about like, for example, our oldest with computer programming that he's, he's taught himself that he can go into, uh, into, um, his own, uh, occupation with it and take it into, you know, working right out of being, you know, an adult age, because he already has all that training that he's, he's been able to gain just through, um, um, Having the, having the ability to teach himself, um, which is, I think is an invaluable, uh, skill to have is the, the ability to learn on your own and to, to research and to find, you know, answers to your questions, to problem solve and all those kinds of things that I think homeschooling really encourages. Uh, what I remember from public school, it was a lot of regurgitation of information. You memorize and you regurgitate it. And that's kind of the mindset I think my dad has. That it's like, okay, can they regurgitate the information I expect? He sees the regurgitation, the ability to regurgitate and actual education as one and the same, where they could not be more different. Uh, and, uh, yeah. So, uh, yeah. Meanwhile, on my side, um, I was partly homeschooled. I did kind of a hybrid homeschool, public school thing, um, uh, during half of sixth grade. So when I was 11 turning 12, and then, um, uh, then all of ninth grade was 14, turning 15 and, uh, did a hybrid, like I go to public school for things like choir. Um, and, uh, it was in 6th grade I went there for, for science class and, um, I think some language, some foreign language classes or things like that. But, uh, but all the rest of the time, beginning of the day and at the end of the day, I was at home, but I was pulled out of school. My mom pulled me out of school halfway through. There were several reasons why. I was dealing with a lot of, uh, uh, depression and anxiety. Um, I, they were diagnosing me as, uh, ADHD and stuff. My mom was like, no, come on. But also, um, I just was not learning well in that kind of environment. Um, all the the pressure from Um performing in front of everybody else and being there in these in these nice orderly rows and stuff I needed to go about these things at my own pace um And then I took a test when I was in 6th grade and it was found that I had like a 2nd grade reading level at that time. So my mom pulled me out and said, okay, now we are going to hammer in this ability to read and getting really good reading comprehension. So I was starting at like 7 in the morning. With school while my siblings were getting ready to go to school. I would be sitting down starting I would then middle of the day, you know go go to school for a class and lunch and come back my mom back up and uh Um, obviously, yeah, but yeah, and then I would continue working till roughly like 10 p. m uh at night and And do that not Monday through Friday Monday through Saturday And what summer vacation there between sixth and seventh grade? There was basically no summer vacation because Yeah, I had a lot of catching up to do, a lot of things that I kind of fallen back behind on. Um, then in ninth grade, before that started, I, um, opted into, uh, to, uh, homeschool. I said, hey mom, could we do that homeschool thing again? Because I did seventh and eighth grade back in public school. I'm like, I'm kind of missing that. I'd rather be, uh, be back at, uh, in homeschool. Uh, but I didn't, again, I did a hybrid thing. Well, homeschool was such a positive experience for me. Um, uh, but then that's when I started to,

Well,

And then, um, uh, sorry, I keep losing my train of thought. Oh, that's right. And so when we started doing it, actually, my mom was okay when we told her, Oh yeah, we're planning on homeschooling our kids. Um, Or we're starting to now and but she was okay with it, but at the same time she was a math teacher at that time She wasn't earlier, but she'd become a math teacher in a public school and it become very Positive towards the idea of public school and was kind of encouraging us like well, maybe do maybe do homeschool At first and then move maybe in middle school high school movement to um homeschool. I kind of shrugged. Is that it? Maybe that didn't happen though Um, but then she's gradually warmed up to it now. She doesn't teach anymore. Um, but uh, Uh, but yeah, so she's she's warmed up to it as well Yeah, and I think um even with uh, the the difficulties on my side over and over again within my family and outside of our family, people we meet, people we get to know, our friends and stuff, they compliment us on how smart our kids are. Um, I think part of it is just, uh, being able to communicate in an intellectual way is a skill that they've developed from being homeschooled as well, that, uh, People just are like compliment us on all the time. They're so well behaved and they're, and they're so smart.

Well, I think, I mean, just the example with your, your dad quizzing them, Mm hmm. One of the things that Tali and I observed is homeschooled kids, not, not all, I get it to make generalities, but generally speaking, homeschooled kids are able to have a conversation with anybody of any age because they are constantly around people of all ages.

And

we didn't, we never baby talked them anyway. We always treated them.

We just,

we talked to them the way we're talking to you now.

But

around their siblings at different ages, around other homeschool kids at different ages versus public school where you are segregating people by their age, arbitrarily. That's just, that's the way it is. Then all of a sudden they're out and now they're interacting with an adult or something else. And they,

they haven't been spending,

they haven't been spending the time to, to learn how to socialize. So our,

when

look back on our experience and people compliment us on our kids, I think a huge part of that is just that. they don't know any different. All I knew is this is how everybody talked to each other. And you learned if, if you were disrespectful to someone, it didn't matter what their age was. You learned how to, corrected that.

And so

I think there's something

unnatural

at the way we, we segregate kids by age in schools. And I think one of the, the outcomes of homeschooling is the opposite of that, where

People

actually hold a conversation. They can do it at work, they can do it at school, they can do it in activities, and so,

um. Well, I, I'll just add to that. I think part of the reason that public school kids have, compared to homeschool kids, have more difficulty conversing is because most of the day they're not allowed to converse. They go into a group setting where they're expected to be quiet. And then they're also taught shame if they ask a stupid question. Even though the teacher would say there are no stupid questions, you're just not going to ask a question you think is stupid. So there's no conversation during learning either. It's a very one sided, You know, I'll teach you, be quiet and absorb, and then don't talk to your classmates because that's disruptive. And in between classes, don't be late. Go to your locker, hurry up, get yourself and go to So, most of the day, they're not talking. They're not having the, the opportunity to express their ideas continually to to expand their ability to translate thought into words. Whereas homeschool kids, you know, you might have six sitting at a table, they will not be shy about yelling out a question if they're in the middle of doing their assignments, right? Because my kids wouldn't. I mean, it's like, blur right out. So I think also, you know, our homeschool kids just get more practice. What, are you still

on the socialization part?

It's not socialization per se. I think it's just the opportunity to practice translating thought into words. Because that is a process.

They just have

communicative, right?

Yeah,

practice time. Yeah, I think so. Well, I'll

yeah, they're allowed to.

Right.

Yeah, so let me ask you another thing, too. There's

think there's a.

on my mind about the time at school, and that is, if someone gets into flow, you're basically saying, you have to be in flow right now, 45 minutes on math. It didn't matter for your sleep cycles out of whack, or you just had a bunch of sugary snacks. It doesn't matter. you're going to break that, and now you have to be focused only on English, or whatever the next subject is, whatever the bells go off in

schools. And

so my question for you is, uh,

It seems to me

in the, in the home environment, I want to get, I want to see what, if, what your experience was

in a

home environment, you can allow the kids, you can say you're going to learn math, right? You may mandate they learn math unless you're doing unschooling, you can say there's certain subjects you're going to learn,

but you

let them learn it at

a

different time of day, a different time of the week. And

if

happen to be in flow, you just, you finally got there.

You can

there. Guess what? Cause that next subject you could just push off to a different, different time. So I think another benefit

of what

like a lack of structure in the home, not having that,

that regiment, the battle rhythm

these bells going off allows students to go deeper and learn better

when

are on the subjects. So

what's

your experience? How did you guys choose curriculum? How did you guys manage time? I mean, tell us what you guys think.

Yeah, we definitely do more of an unschooling kind of approach. Um, one thing though, kind of, um, uh, kind of going off what you were just saying there, a thought I had was, um, as much as I like this movie I'm going to reference here, uh, uh, there's a part in the movie The Matrix where, um, the, you know, Neo is plugged into, uh, to the computer and they're uploading all this information straight into his head and he's all, I know Kung Fu. Um, and I think that's, uh, Uh, even before the matrix for decades or so, a century or so before the matrix ever came out, was the idea of like, Oh, if we're only possible that we could just upload information into our minds. Um, and we would call that learning, but the thing is he was able to essentially regurgitate Kung Fu. He was able to regurgitate all these, this information, but he had no practice with it. There were never, it had only been one direction going into his brain. Nothing going out from his own mind, which is another way that we learn. Um, and so when, yeah, when there's that you know, like, no, I don't care what kind of flow you're in. You're, you're having stuff come in and go out and you're just, you're just going, no, no, no. You need to now move on. You're, that was science. Now we're doing history. Um, and, uh, you know, put, put a stop to that flow and move to this other thing. And, uh, yeah, I think it's extremely detrimental. Uh, and it's not the way the mind works. It never has. Uh, and, uh, and so I think kids to have that Um, that scenario or that, uh, what's the word I'm looking for here? Um, that setting, I guess, where they can receive and give, uh, and at their pace. And maybe they're not quite ready to give yet. So they're like, go on. I'm still listening. Thinking and the gears are still turning. They're not ready to give yet because I don't feel like confidence yet But then something clicks and they go. Oh, you mean kind of like this and they start building and they start doing and they start teaching and they and uh They they start learning so like actually learning so much more so Back to your other question, though, about, uh, you know, what style we do. We, uh, uh, yeah, very, uh, unschooling kind of method. Our main goal with all of our kids, and now, now with this, uh, one year old, uh, that we have, is get them to the point where they can, uh, teach themselves. So, help them learn how to read is kind of the first major milestone. There's a bunch of other smaller milestones, uh, in there. But when they can read. And they're like, you know, I really wanted to learn about this thing. Um, uh, you know, anything science or history or anything else like that. We'll be like, boom, here you go. Um, we'd be happy to read it with you if you'd like, but Sometimes, oh man, there have been times we would wake up in the morning and like, like we should be up before the kids are, their lights on, what's going on? There was one point, actually it was one point late at night, so it wasn't in the morning, it was late at night, we're getting ready for bed, we already put the kids to bed, but now we notice there's a light on in the stairwell. We went to the stairwell, opened up the door, looked down, like four of our kids, of our five older kids, all sitting on the stairwell, all on a different step with a book open of their own choosing, uh, that

that's a

sitting there

I

you took a

is like 11 PM or something crazy like that. Yeah. I think we got a picture of it. Can you take a picture? Oh, I don't know. It was several years ago though. But uh, Yeah. Dig it up, but yeah. And I was like, okay, this is like the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. Nevermind guys. I know it's late. I put you to bed a couple hours ago, carry on. And I just closed the door

You ever let the

because they were in that flow.

were in the flow.

Yeah, And uh,

Did they ever, you ever let them teach each other?

You know, if one has a flow

with one, they want to tell the others, they do that too.

Mm-hmm

Okay.

Yeah. And, um, yeah, there are a lot of times when, um. One of our, uh, middle kids will be working on some kind of project like, uh, creating a game on the computer or that kind of thing. They need help with something. I'm like, well, go, go ask one of your older brothers who knows how to do it. And they will, they'll ask them and then, uh, they'll, they'll get the help that they need. And so it's, it's really awesome. It's like, well, I might not know this, but if I don't, and then you have other people around who might know, and then also, you know, there are all these other resources that we can point them to as well. So.

Make your job

Yeah. And sometimes you're.

Yeah.

yeah. I'm

and to your point, sometimes it's just because we don't know that information, but we know that their oldest brother does. Sometimes though, it's, you know, I'm working, she's taking care of the baby, and we just can't at that moment. And there's other people who can then help. But, um, really what this comes down to, uh, taking it again to a, uh, Bitcoin y, uh, kind of, kind of reference here. Uh, all Bitcoiners recognize the term, well, not all, but a lot of Bitcoiners recognize the term time preference. That when you have this low time preference mentality or approach to homeschooling, you work a whole lot when they're really, really young. Get them to understand how to read, how to do math. Uh, understand the basis of science and basis of history and things, just these basics. Thanks. Now they have a little taste. It's like they've, uh, they've taste tested everything and they know now what, how to get more of the thing that they want. And they're like, Ooh, I want a lot more of that please. And a lot more of that. So like our, our third son has gone, I want a lot more of that aerospace engineering. And you know, he actually just said to me, he wants to look into becoming a pilot and stuff like that. He wants a lot more of that kind of stuff in history and not so much. And, and, uh, yeah, all those kinds of things. Thanks, I, I understand the basics now, but putting all a lot of that work in first early on makes it so that it just opens up every opportunity for them, uh, through the, the later years of their life. And by early on, I mean like how, how long will it take for a kid to, to really learn how to read and, uh, start getting interested in and ability able to, and interested in reading nonfiction books. Um. I mean, they, they might still be like eight, nine, ten, something like that, but we're like really diving into nonfiction, uh, and, and, uh, that's kind of self guided learning, so self guided, but we are still overseeing it all, and every day, uh, talking with them about it, uh, it's, like I said earlier, it's a great opportunity for us to learn a lot of great things, um, and so we're always being their, their guides, their, um, I don't know, advocates and kind of walking them through that whole process of learning, especially when it comes to those kinds of things that like, we didn't know anything about this, but now we can, now we can, um, learn from them and learn with them.

Yeah. Okay. Help me understand. We did not unschool. I like the idea where they follow their passion and they do things. On the other hand,

I have some

opinions about things that should be taught. You can get into money literacy. You can get into whatever, whatever it is that you want to do. So how do you guys balance that?

Are there

some things that you really want them to go and they, they haven't selected it on their own, but, you know, so

there's, I

think there's a spectrum on the unschooling to structure. So help us. Where, where are you guys on that?

Yeah, uh, so that's, that's definitely true. A lot of times I'll tell, tell people when I say unschooling, I'm like, yeah, that might give you the wrong idea about what we actually do. We don't let them just run around outside all day. Although that can be beneficial as well, sometimes. Like when it snows, like today it did. Yeah. Um, so I usually say it's like an organized unschooling. So we do have, um, a different, um, Uh, different learning resources that we pull from. Um, but then they have a lot of, uh, a lot of freedom to choose, uh, when they want to do it and which resources they prefer. We'll see which ones they gravitate toward and they're enjoying and then we'll, we'll do those. If we see that there's a, um, a gap in. And the things that they're learning that they need a bridge and then we'll help them to find that bridge and get more involved with, uh, helping them to learn those things. Um, a lot of times when they learn, uh, is dependent on when they're ready. And so we'll say, well, we need to do this. Maybe even we need to work on this today or this week. So I'll, I'll tell them, just let me know when you're ready. And then, uh, and then we'll work on that. And sometimes I've seen like with, uh. with math, for example, will do, um, uh, one set, one set of, uh, uh, math problems, and then they'll ask, can I do some more? Because, uh, they had so much fun with those as they're enjoying it and they're, you know, they're in the zone and so they want to do some more. And so we'll continue with some more. So it really makes it nice because There will be some things they might get ahead on, and then sometimes there will be things they're behind on, but in the end, it all evens out. I think like for us, that's what I've seen. Um, and, uh, it kind of goes along with, um, Maria Montessori's, uh, philosophy that you let the children explore on their own, but when you see there's something that they need and then you guide them to that need so that they can have that need filled. Yeah. So very heavily guided yet still. Still giving them some, a lot of freedom. Where I thought you were actually going to go Yeah, yeah, a lot of freedom of choice, yeah. Where I thought you were going to go actually is, uh, something that she's been doing for years, uh, with all of them. Not since the very beginning, but, so, for many years, is, uh, the process of going through history, um, by way of, uh, literature. Do you want to talk some about that? I can. Um, So this one goes along, uh, some, uh, with, uh, the Charlotte Mason, what she taught about living books, teaching from living books.

Mhm. Yep.

Which means books that aren't like textbooks that are devoid of, you know, story and life and meaning. So, I guess the way we do it is, we'll read literature through history and we start at, you know, early on. And then we'll use, the Bible as well as, lots of other novels, literature, poems, um, uh, and, uh, we even, we even did, yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of it's historical fiction. Uh, some is nonfiction, um, and one, one book that I really liked we did was a, um, a book stories of art. So we did an art history, uh, type and it's this one book that's, that's really nice that has these stories of different pieces of art. So you get familiar with art through history as well and the development of art and the, and the stories along with that with different artists and get to know them. And so you can do that. I think, I think our minds a lot of times will think chronologically anyway, because we are people, you know, in time.

Mhm.

And so, uh, teaching that way, and you can also teach, you know, music and science and, basically everything you can teach through, like chronologically so that your children are learning it in that kind of natural way that other people through time have learned it as well.

Yeah. The, the power of stories. Come up, I don't know how many times that you can use that. And, uh, do you remember the name of that? You, the name of the art book? You're

Oh, wait,

about it though, is

never mind. I have it right next to me.

Jason, while she's getting that, Oh, there it is. Okay. Okay.

Vincent's story Oh, I love that! That is so cool!

A Children's History of Art.

says Michael Bird.

trying to read the, trying to read the

Yeah, Michael Byrd. Yeah, Michael Byrd.

I'll put

a link in the, I'll put a link in the

show notes. You

know what I, the other thing I like about it. Well, first of all, I like art. so I think that's really cool. But I also think you guys are highlighting one of the benefits when you take control. And sorry, Leanne, I got to go down the Bitcoin thing. I'm going to use all

kinds of Bitcoin. You, when You,

when you self custody parenting and you're

Yeah.

of this, you can do a lot of things and the kids get to learn things that are not part of a state curriculum, right? I mean, I just imagine you, you, you go there and the teachers and the administrators have an incentive that kids in a public school do well on standardized tests. So guess what? They spend a lot of time on whatever you need for that. Versus. Hey kids, we're going to pick up Starry Night and we're going to tell stories about art or fill in the blank, aerospace, something else, and letting kids explore topics that

are

outside. So I like what you said before, you have the base. If you learn how to read and you learn numbers and you learn your, your basics, you open this amazing universe for the kids to explore

Mm-hmm

things

that they otherwise wouldn't be able to,

explain.

So yeah, and the power story, um, very, very

Mm-hmm

Are you going

One way I like to think of it is, um, imagine you, uh, and I'm not, I'm not, I didn't come up with this analogy myself. I heard this once in a, a video I was watching many, many years ago. But imagine you've just shown up, uh uh, at a play. Um, except you're, you're backstage and your time to come on stage is like in five minutes, but you have no idea what's happened previously in the play. So someone backstage is like, has to quickly, um, fill you in quickly say, okay, well, she's in love with him, but he killed that guy. But this guy is actually saying this. And so he's really angry at that guy and quickly fill in the plot. to then get you ready to go on stage and perform. what parenting, childhood, Parenting, parenting children and homeschooling is, you're quickly, roughly 18 years, it can be shorter than that, but over a period of years you are preparing your children to go out there into the world. That's the ultimate goal. point so they can be competent adults and act there on stage and hopefully direct this play that we're all in to go in a nicer direction than it already is and Ever so a little bit, but you first have to Inform them about everything. How did the play what's happening now, which they can see how did it get here? How did it get to this point? And what does that thing mean? Why is this person on TV saying this thing? What is this thing, the internet? And what is this, uh, this Bitcoin thing, which like my

Well, I'm glad you brought up that because that actually wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to poke this subject a little bit, even though I'm guessing it's not. So can you, for the audience, this would be kind of a little of a transition here, Jason, maybe start with you, what you do, just the high level stuff, what you're doing,

and

then maybe you can touch on, uh, If we're, you know, where, where you are, Leon, on the, the orange pilling journey

and, you know, are you

tolerating this? Are you,

are you,

are you incorporating this into your schooling? So touch, touch on the Bitcoin thing.

Okay. Actually. Touch on touch. Oh no. Um,

on you.

You,

you, you get 30

really. Um, uh, our youngest, our 1-year-old is now looking at me because he heard the, he heard the magic word Bitcoin, um, and he just heard it again. He's looking at me like, oh, oh, I know what that is. Um, every time he sees one of the, the, uh, Bitcoin symbol, he like wants to reach out and touch it and, and poke it and stuff. He, he, I think it's early on there was like the, the contrast of of, of orange and white. I think that's really what it was. But then he sees a symbol all the time. Daddy has it on shirts. And he has stickers on his computer and, uh, it's, this must be something important. Uh, he's just, he's just one, he doesn't understand yet. But, um, uh, oh yeah, so I guess a little bit about my story. So, uh, discovered Bitcoin in, or went down the Bitcoin rabbit hole, I should say, in mid 2015. Um, so at the time our fifth child, our only daughter, uh, was, uh, one. And I was just like our, our little son right, right here. And, um, Oh, yeah. And then it was a few months after that when I was like, you know what? Let's, let's start moving some of their savings into Bitcoin. I think that would be a really, that'd be really, really good for them. Um, and so pretty much since late 2015, maybe early 2016, um, all of our kids have been 100 percent in Bitcoin and over the years, like if they get any money, they, uh, um, they immediately want to exchange it, uh, into Bitcoin.

they want to, or

so they are, you know,

Like, what was

Oh, no, they want to.

They want to.

they, uh, yeah, I even double checked with them. You sure you don't want to keep any of that for spending? Like I don't have any plans to spend that in the next like year or whatever. So may as well have it as sats. Um, they, uh, okay, so here's the story. Um, my, uh, um, now 10 year old daughter, uh, she was four or five, uh, at this point. She didn't really understand what was the big deal about Bitcoin. Why was I talking about it all the time? And, um, oh yeah, we were also, sorry, side note, uh, side note to the side note, we were, uh, you know, we do family scripture study every night and. Almost every single night for a while there. There was something brought up in like a bible story or something that i'd be like You know, that's just like what satoshi said And you know, basically in other words, this is they're talking about time preference here and uh things like that Oh, you know, this is kind of don't trust verify and all these things I'll tell you all these connections to um, and I was getting eye rolls and groans from from everyone um But uh, but it was still good I think um Anyway though, so my daughter asked me at one point, so what's the big deal about this? And so I came up with an analogy to explain Bitcoin to her. She really, really loved, just like our one year old now, uh, really loved having, uh, a banana, uh, every morning. She's, one of her favorite fruits was a banana. Well, fun thing about bananas is, you know, you can buy them green, then they get riper, they get more yellow, and then they start getting spotty, and then they start getting all brown everywhere, and then they start, like, really molding and rotting. That's a fun thing, yeah. Yeah. No, that is a fun, that's a fun fact about, about bananas, yeah. Anyway. It worked really well to make a connection between Bitcoin and fiat. So I said, I told her, imagine there was a new kind of banana. Um, but this new kind, I think I called them something like super bananas or something, I don't know. Where, imagine it's kind of banana, you get it and it's green. And if you peel it and eat it right then, it doesn't taste all that great, it's kind of firm and stuff. But if you wait longer, it turns more yellow. If you wait longer, maybe there'll be a couple little spots just showing it's kind of sweet there, but it only gets better. It never turns brown. It never rots. It will only get better and better and better. So And there's nowhere at any point where the amount that's getting better kind of levels off. No, it continuously, exponentially just gets better and better and better every day, week, month, year that you store it. So then I asked her to imagine that. Her eyes got really wide. Wow, that'd be so amazing. So I said, oh, yeah. So I asked her, when would you ever eat one of those bananas? And she said, well, I suppose only if I really needed to. If I didn't have any regular bananas and uh, but yeah, I would say for as long as I could I said, okay, great um uh There's another question I asked her I forget now. Oh, that's actually sorry That was the second question The first question I asked her was how many of those super bananas would you want? And she said oh as many as I can get so I said, okay great Then I asked when would you eat them? Like well, I guess only if I really needed to third question I asked her was how many and this is the kicker how many? You Regular bananas. Can I give you in exchange for you giving me one super banana? And she she was like Then she thought Infinite no, I would never give you any no matter what and i'm like very good girl. You understand bitcoin Bitcoins are super bananas Dollars and all the fiats are the regular bananas. +They get old, they rot, they lose their value. The longer you hold Bitcoin, the more, the sweeter and brighter and better it gets. And her eyes just lit up. She's like, I want all the Bitcoin. I'm like, yes, good job, girl. And, uh, uh, yeah. And so that's when she understood it. Her four older brothers, uh, I already kind of didn't explain that same way, but you can explain it similarly. Oh, sorry, one year old. slipping here. Okay, he's fine. Um, but, uh, uh, yeah, and so I don't have to To tell them, you know, like, Hey, you should search from dollars to Bitcoin. No, there's a, uh, a saying, I don't want this to give away to any listeners about, uh, our religious upbringing, but there's a saying, uh, in amongst other people of same religious background as us, um, that you should teach correct principles and then let people govern themselves. And it's kind of a mantra that we've, uh, or mantra mantra, but yeah, a slogan is kind of that we've. Um, taken to heart that we teach our children, um, correct principles, just teach them the basic things and then let them govern themselves. We don't want to just totally like, all right, throw them in the swimming pool and swim. No, but still, yeah, you teach them those basic things. Or there's another, there's a quote we heard early on in our marriage, um, prepare the child for the path, not the path for the child. And so we, um, We're still just doing that. So when it comes to Bitcoin, when it comes to anything else that comes up, uh, recent, uh, political things, uh, going on, um, we, we teach what we believe are the correct principles. And then we invite them to a verify if those are correct principles and be live those principles themselves.

That's great.

Um, and so as we've done with, with Bitcoin and everything else,

I love the power of analogy. I, I, I want to use

the, the super banana story. I want some super bananas. Well,

I know you want the super bananas. I want to use the super banana story.

I know. I think we should share that with our kids. We should

Not just our kids. I think

we're, well, to the, and everybody else, obviously. We'll give Jason credit. I'm going to share that in my women's group.

Well, we're going to give, we'll give you

credit, but yes,

think that

the sellers, super

it's, uh, there's so much power in simplifying something to something that people can relate. And I think that there's a lot of lip service to that when you go onto the Twitter verse or whatever it is, and you have your, your meme of the day.

But

sometimes.

The short

memes, they can

capture

really good. Now I've never heard the super banana story till

today. And I'm really thinking

about naming this episode

Superbananas. it's

Leanne, Jason, and is

and Jason and the Superbananas? I

bananas. It sounds like a, like a, like a, uh, what do you call it? It sounds like a pop star group or something, right? You know, the super bananas,

Oh.

maybe not.

Okay. Based on your face, but maybe not.

All right. Comic book.

comic book. Um, I really do. I really, really, really like that. And I like the philosophy of

teaching

them the principles and then

they govern themselves. Let them govern themselves, yeah. So I think there's a lot of people who, even in the homeschooling arena, they try to control their kids so tightly because they are so full of fear of what's going on in the world. And when they decide to homeschool, that's their way of protecting their children. And then they, they raise their children like that. And

Yeah. Mm hmm. Um. Mm hmm.

and they're getting ready to leave the nest they are so full of fear But the fact I love what you said about teaching them the principles because you can't protect them forever they have to be able to discern themselves what they Choose which path and how they walk the path. So I love that Yeah,

definitely you have to let them go outside and

get some bumps and bruises and it's

the same with You Other kinds of decisions

as well. Mm-hmm

Leah, we're,

because

keep smirking while he's telling all these Bitcoin stories.

What's where,

where, where, where are you guys on, you know, where, where are you on this, this journey? You, are you just supportive? You go off and play your silly, your silly super banana games. And

we're,

I'm going to do the real work around the house with the kids. Like what's,

I'm raising my own super bananas

uh, there you go.

because they're worth more than Bitcoin.

Uh. That's true There you go. There you go.

why are you doing all the why saving all that Bitcoin doesn't do anything if you don't like what's the point?

Right Right.

purpose. So I

Yeah. So, uh, yeah, my, my focus is on them a lot, but, um, I love how the, the principles that Bitcoin encourages in people are the same ones that we want our kids. To be able to live up to those kind of moral values that, uh, are encouraged through, um, the stability of Bitcoin through the, um, all the, all those different, uh, uh, qualities of Bitcoin, the mutability and the, uh, verifiability and everything. And, uh, I think those. Those are all things that, um, that's important for our kids to be able to, to have that in order to Um, do well in the world. And so, uh, I guess, uh, for, for Jason, he's like a, a fan boy. He geeks out about Bitcoin and stuff, but I'm like, I'm, I'm teaching my kids and I'm implementing it. And, uh, you know, those principles, uh, for them. And, and he does as well, but, uh, it's more of my focus in teaching them because. You know, I'm the, I'm the main homeschool parent. And then Jason comes in and he, he adds in his, his, uh, geeky perspective, which is always fun. Well, I noticed, um, from like 2015, 2018, my, my reason for being in Bitcoin was I wanted to end the Federal Reserve. I wanted to replace, uh, the Federal Reserve with Bitcoin and, and dollars and Bitcoin, stuff like that. It was this very external, um, thing. I like to think of it as changing the world from the outside in. And I would go off about that for a while. And my lovely wife here would just be so patient with me, like, that's nice. That, yeah, sounds good.

You

end

And not really say much else.

got it

Yeah, but then, uh, then I listened to the audio book of the Bitcoin standard and went down that rabbit hole about things like time preference and stuff. And I realized how much Bitcoin can change all of us, change the world really from the inside out by working through us. When I shared that with, with my wife, with Leanne here, that's when it was like, okay, this is, more interesting. I was seeing more connection, I guess. Still, she was being her practical self that she always is. Uh, and, uh, I was still being my geeky self. I just had a new reason to geek out about Bitcoin. Um, a better reason, in my opinion. Um, but, uh, I always like to say, I came into Bitcoin for the, the political revolution, but I came in, uh, but I stayed for the, uh, the personal revolution or the, the, uh, yeah, so for the change from the inside out. But, uh, yeah, that's definitely where I saw her be more, uh, I guess, uh, more accepting of Bitcoin. Eh, you're always accepting of it. Um, but, uh, yeah. Just kind of engage more with it. May I tell the story about March 2020? Yeah, I thought, I thought you would. As an example. It sounded like you

I like I like how he asked permission before Like, Leon, you got him so well

want to embarrass

job.

Yeah, I just don't want to embarrass her. At least not too much. Um, but, uh, um, so March of 2020, anyone who's been in Bitcoin long enough, uh, will know what happened then. Uh, the, the, you know, uh, all, all the stuff that happened in 2020 was getting started. And, uh, there was a big crash. Bitcoin's price went down from somewhere in the 9, 000s to somewhere in the 4, 000s in a single day. Um, it was pretty crazy. Well, um, I came home from work that day and just told her, Hey, sweetie. Um, so I have some news, not necessarily good or bad. It just is news. Like, let me, I was really nervous about this. Um, but now I did talking her ear off about Bitcoin for like five years, uh, by this power, four and a half years or so. And, uh, and so I, I showed her the chart and says, yeah, so this happened today. And, um, Yeah, so what do you think? Her response was So, what you're telling me is We can afford to buy more now And Yes, exactly That's exactly my response Listeners don't know what Scott's doing But, uh, yeah I was cheering inside. I think I just sighed said, Oh, I love you That's what I said But, uh, yes, inside I was just like Yes All right

I

thought you were going to go like, you know, she's like, so you just cut her, you just cut her child savings in half

is what you're saying. Like,

That's where I thought you were going. And then when you said that, I was like, so excited. I'm like, yes.

this is like that meme where it is just like the, the woman crying, and it's like, Bitcoin just dropped 20%. I'm only, you know, 349% up. Uh, like, and uh, it was a bit like that, but, uh, but that wasn't what. she was caring about. She saw it like, well, this is a dip we can buy, right? And in such a practical way, never geeking out about Bitcoin like I do, and yet still seeing it for what it actually is. I'm like, Oh, why? Yes. Like chef's kiss. Yes.

amazing. That's a great story. Why would you be embarrassed? That's awesome.

Yeah. I don't think I've ever been embarrassed to that story. Okay. Okay. But, um,

it tells people how smart you are. You, you not, a lot of people don't get that at all. Even after you tell them, they don't tell them, you know?

yeah, yeah. I know there have been so many things that we've been through and, you know, hard things happen after a hard time and we've moved so many different places, especially like early on in our marriage and stuff. And through it all, we were able to get through it. And I feel like it was God's hand in our life, guiding us along the way. And so I've I've always had that trust in God, even when Jason had a harder time with it. I was, I was just saying, no, God's going to get us through this. So it's going to be okay. And so with that perspective, when he says that, I'm like, well, it dipped for a reason. And, and, uh, you know, God, all things happen for a reason. God knows that that was going to happen. And he knows that we're going to be able to put more in it now. And so we can trust him with it because all that we have is from him anyway. And so he's making that possible for us to save more.

Wow. Hmm.

That's, yeah, to save more. That's actually the way we've seen Bitcoin since, oh, 2016 or something like that. It's just a savings account, not a trading vehicle or anything else like that. That's just how we save. Which goes to the point that a lot of Bitcoiners have made that in a fiat system, you have to invest just to survive. You have to put money in housing, you have to put money in the stock market, you have to do, you have to play all these games in a perfectly fiat, not fiat, in a non fiat world, in a perfectly bitcoin world, everyone's on a bitcoin standard, you just save. You just, you, uh, spend less than you earn, you just save the rest for a rainy day, and you win.

Yeah. Do your kids,

life is so simple.

the

story you just told? Do your

they were right there when it happened. Yeah, it was, it was, uh, at our, it was, uh, here at our, uh, dinner

Think about what you

that conversation.

Think about that lesson, like how valuable that lesson is. So not only about Bitcoin, but how the relationship between the spouse, the spouses and how to handle difficult news and what could have been difficult news and, and things like that, that's a really powerful,

that's

really powerful thing for them to witness that you're not gonna be able to teach in a textbook somewhere. They saw mom and dad,

This

is what happened.

And then

they now understand the implications of that. And you can't take that away from them. That's, that's their, part of their framework on the, on the world. And that's a really, really powerful thing. So.

It goes back to what I was saying, that you can't learn by regurgitation. You can't learn by just uploading kung fu into someone's brain. There has to be the, the practice, the time, the experience. It's fun to imagine in a movie like The Matrix, but, uh, uh, but no, there has to be the, those, um, uh, all, all the nuances of different. things. And so, yeah, I've sometimes imagined what will my kids with their spouses, what would their lives be like when they come up against something difficult? What will their minds process from memories like that and many others? Um, that all I, I hope and pray will just, just make it so that their, um, relationships with their spouses and with their children, uh, will be even better than what we've enjoyed.

That's beautiful. Here's what I propose.

Um, I want

to see if, is there anything that we didn't cover about your experiences, the particular challenge or a resource or something that you wanted to share? And then before we sign off, Jason, I want you to give a chance just to, if you could just, because it is a Bitcoin show, just touch on a couple of the projects that are in your, your scope, right? Your scope right now. So do we miss anything that if you, if you were sitting down with people who are just about to start a couple that was just starting their family, Um, and they were, they were on the fence about, about homeschooling. Is there anything we missed that you would want to share with them?

Yeah, I know I, I, uh, talked to Tali about this, um, uh, last night when we were talking. But, um, uh, there are a lot of people who are considering homeschooling. And they, uh, when, when I talk to them about it, or, or maybe they're not considering it, but they know it's an option, but they've talked themselves out of it because they think it's going to be too hard. And I'm like, oh. I know that feeling because that was me. And, um, what, what I found is that homeschooling is what you make it. Um, you don't have to go with someone else's curriculum. Now, I think a lot of people who are going into it new and they don't know what to do. They're like, I don't know about resources. I don't know where to look for things. They'll just go to. to um, a full curriculum that they, that, that they find someone suggests to them or something so that they have it all planned out for them. Now, um, if, if that's the way that they want to go, there's one that I know of that is, um, Basically, you open up the book and you start and you do the lesson for that day. So there's almost like basically no prep work at all. Um, and it also integrates different, um, Uh, different subjects into, like, their literature courses, their, um, yeah, language arts and phonics and science, and you, they also have, their language arts is free from K through 8th grade, and their math is free from K through 7th grade. And that's the good and the beautiful. Curriculum, which is, it was up to its name.

You

it's really good. So it's a Christian based and it was started by a mom who, uh, saw the kinds of books that her children were bringing home from school that they were assigned to read. And she was like, these are not good books. These have all kinds of mess in them. Even like the ones for like, Early grade schoolers, like second and third grade, she's like, they should not be reading these things. They do not have high moral value and good character in them. They're, they're not good examples for my children. And so she started. Slowly putting together this curriculum first focusing on language arts and then branching out and so now it's basically a whole curriculum Where there's still developing some of the high school stuff, but yeah a lot of it they provide for free and so that's a good one if you're looking for a full curriculum where you Hopefully won't feel overwhelmed With it, because you don't have to do prep for the lessons. You just open up the book and there it is, or, uh, the PDF, which you can download from free on the site. Um, one, one story I'd like to share, uh, also share this with Tali last night about my oldest son. So, um, I was, uh, teaching him how to read. And I had learned from, um, I had been a substitute teacher before I had him, and in, within substitute teaching I learned about a resource called Starfall. com. I don't know if you guys have heard of that. Um, Okay, this one is so Good, I think. It was actually, so it's a non profit, and it was started up by a man who, when he was a child, he had dyslexia and he had a hard time learning how to read. And so he started up, uh, uh, Starfall. com as a curriculum to, to help children. It's interactive and it's engaging. They, um, originally had it just as a website, but then as apps became more popular, it's available as an app now as well. Um, if you want access to, there's, there's a lot of the resources that are available, especially within the language arts, and this goes through. It's, uh, fifth grade, I think. So K through fifth grade. And, um, and it's language arts and music and math. And, uh, most of the language arts, if not all of it is totally free. And then it's 35 a year. If you want to pay into it because it's a nonprofit, they don't ask. for that much for the, for, um, uh, uh, access to all of their resources. And so I had already known about this from Uh, from substitute teaching, I had learned about it. And so, that's what I started my first child on when he was learning to read. I just let him get on the computer and do stuff on Starfall, the, the different interactive activities that they have, and learning different phonics of different letters and everything. I, I feel like he taught himself how to read, that I didn't really have to do much at all. And it was amazing. Like, one day we, when, uh, I think you did more than you're giving yourself credit for, but yeah. Well, I don't, I felt like I didn't do very much.

found the right

But one day we go in.

It

takes time to find the right resources, though. I mean, to Jason's point,

Yeah.

the, a huge

part of what I saw Tali work on was

she would

spend hours and hours

looking

for resources, either online or at the library or were talking to other homeschooling moms. It's because you have so much flexibility

It

actually is work to figure out how do you get through all the noise to figure out what's the right resource for your kids. So

that

actually is a,

it's,

it's one thing to say, I found the right, I found the diamond. Yeah. But if you're the person who knows how to get the diamond,

like

that's a big deal. So, um, it, it takes, you know, to find the right tool, the right things, the right resource. So to Jason's

Well, Starfall didn't work. Yeah, thanks. Yeah, well, Starfield didn't work as well with my other kids. I feel like, I was like, oh, it's magic. It teaches them how to read because, you know, I, I felt that way with my oldest. So then when it was taking longer for my old, my other kids to learn how to read, I was like, what's wrong? It's not working as well. Um, but I think for them, um, They still liked it, but they needed a little bit more one on one and interaction. And as I was patient with them, um, and let them, I think it's one of the things that helped me to go more toward the unschooling, was seeing how they're learning differently, and if I try to push them too much, And then I get stressed out, and they get stressed out, and then nobody's happy, and they're not learning anything anyway.

I

think it's beautiful. Look at, I, I think about, again, I, I'm not trying to beat up on, I know there's good people who are in public schools trying to teach. I'm not trying to bash that, but as a system, even if you have somebody with good intent, take out any kind of political agendas or things like that. you're teaching 20 or 30 kids, you're going to have to pick a program and that's it. You're going to have to go, go

Right. Mm

versus what you're describing, which is. one on one. If, if this program works for you, then great. If it doesn't, I'm adjusting the program for you.

If you

don't have that as a kid, it's, it's almost up, it's almost luck whether or not the program that has been chosen by whoever's doing the group teaching selects ones, selects a method that you

happen

to work well with.

Whereas

what I hear you describing is, this worked really well with kid number one. Kid number two, I had to adjust fire a little bit here and we did this. And you're,

Mm hmm.

you're

of, you're kind of guiding them depending on their particular needs,

their learning styles, their learning,

all the individual things. And I think that's really powerful. I, I just think that's,

Mm hmm.

I'm not trying to bash on the public schools, but if you put 20, 30 or whatever number of people into a room,

it's very

unlikely they're all going to learn the same way. And you happen to pick just that one method that works for everybody.

There's

no way a teacher could possibly give one on one attention to 20 people. They don't have the time. They don't have the resources. And I think it's just,

you know, a

parent loves their child. They're going to find what works for them.

And there's

a lot of choices out there. It takes time to find it, but,

and

then you just share it. Here's what it worked for my kids. Like you just did.

Somebody

else listens to that and they say, now they go try it. Someone will say, I tried it. Didn't work with my kid. Okay. Whatever.

But if there's

parent out there that listens to it and it works, Hey,

like

that's a big deal for them. You made a difference in that kid's life because they have the right resource. So

a lot of, a lot of, a

a lot of layers to, to that.

So you were, you were going

you were going to,

she was still sharing about her second kid.

kid,

Yeah. Yeah. It's still more after Starfall. I'm going to start all. com. Yeah. Yeah. Well, um, So I, I guess what, what I kind of transitioned into for, um, I guess the, the next four, uh, after, after our oldest was. Looking searching for more, uh, early reader books. There was one really cute one, and free ones, so you can print them off offline. And you don't have to, uh, you know, pay so much for some of the ones that you need to buy. Um, there was one really cute one that starts out super simple and they're called Icy Sam. And, uh, and, uh, let's see, I, I, I had the, the link, but I don't have it in front of me, but, uh, You can share it with me later. And then, uh, Scott, I can share with you, you can put in the show notes.

yep. Anything you think of, just send it,

send it over, yeah. Mm,

but the I See Sam books are these really simple readers. They start out with three words. I see Sam. And it's like this whole little story talking about this, it's, uh, the main character is this mouse and he sees Sam and Sam is the, uh, is a, uh, lion. And so he's like, See? I see. I see Sam. And the illustrations just tell everything about the story because Sam is sleeping. And the mouse goes and wakes Sam up and then of course he's, he's all angry and roaring. He's like, Sam! He's running away from it. Using very simple language, help them to learn basic vowel sounds, like there'll be one book where like a whole bunch of like, uh, uh, like the, the uh, or the, uh, the, you know, the ah, like Sam, uh, kind of, kind of vowel sounds and stuff. So help them learn vowel sounds and consonants. This is for like the most basic early reader. Yeah, and then they, they each build on each other. And so you're getting a little bit more, you'll have like all those words, and then you'll add like one, or maybe two for the next book. And then it just builds on them. And so it's a really good one for a starter, uh, reader. And I found that, uh, that a lot of our kids like to have that, you know, instead of having the more interactive, uh, screen, uh, stuff, they liked having an actual book there where they could practice. They could practice the words and they could just sit down sometimes and read them if they wanted to, to practice on their own, or they could practice with me. And so it made it a little bit, uh, more flexible and nice for, um, for those kids and was better for them. And then for my, um, For my fourth and fifth. It took them a little bit longer to even read than for my second and third. And so I was, I was a little concerned for them. And that's when I decided I'm going to try out some of the Um, the good and the beautiful language arts curriculum. And so we would just open it up and we would do a lesson each day. And so we tried it out and we liked it, but it kind of like fizzled out because then they started reading on their own after, I don't know, it was a few months. They started reading on their own and we're like, okay, they're good. You also bring up a really good point there that, uh, sometimes, um, well not sometimes, everyone will excel in certain areas, but, But then became I guess weak or need work in other areas and that's perfectly fine That is literally the story of every single human being We're all like that and so for any parents listening to this who their child is great at reading but not great at math That was our first child when he was young He just started pouring through books Voracious reader but numbers and math come on. Then you have people who are kind of the opposite Um And don't worry about that. Just stay patient, keep working at it, and, uh, and they'll get it eventually. We all, we all have our different strengths and weaknesses, and so just, you know, strengths, weaknesses, and interests, I should say. And so just keep working, uh, with them along those, those, uh, interests, and, uh, and they'll get there. And as you, as you listen to their questions and answer their questions, and you really pay attention to the things that they're interested in, and then you will see These things that, that come up, it's like, Oh, they're interested in this. Now they're ready for this. And so you can start filling in, uh, those spaces as they show you, as, as they come up, you'll, you'll see the kind of things that they're ready for. And then you can fill those things in and, you know, uh, change, uh, change gears to, uh, to help them in the ways that they need it and that they're ready for.

yeah, fun to watch. Yeah,

of the things that we talked about last night, Leanne, was that when we gauge where our kids should be, a lot of times it's because we're, we're hearing other people's voices and their potential judgment of where our kids are, how our kids are progressing. So if you recognize that. And then you just say that's, that's, that's their thinking and my job is only to help my child thrive in the way he or she needs to thrive at

the,

at the pace that works well for them. Then eventually, as you said, everything is going to even out, but just recognize that when you start to feel anxious, like my child is eight and she's not, you know, reading yet. And of course you have to eliminate possibilities like maybe there's a learning disability or something where she needs extra help. But if she's just not there yet, just be aware that the voices you're hearing, they're other people's voices. So.

right.

Very

cool.

that doesn't make them right.

Exactly.

Yeah.

one of the things that gives people that idea is that there's, you know, the, the schools in, uh, instituted the common core, uh, standard for schools and the No Child Left Behind, so that all children are supposed to learn the same things at the same time and by certain ages. So there are, there's, there's this standard that. The institution has set up, which is not taking into account the needs of the individual, but as homeschooling parents, we can have the intuition and, uh, the, the guidance ourselves to, to see what they need individually. And then. From what I've seen, there is a higher retention rate of the information when you do it that way because they're learning it when they're ready and when they're interested in learning it.

Yeah.

To all Bitcoiners out there, I'll say no child left behind is socialism for education,

It

is

homeschooling is capitalism of education.

Yeah, I think that, yeah, I, yeah, I, the centralized stuff comes from the government, socialism, right? Everybody will learn this and that, and that's it, um, versus you can't get more decentralized than the parents figuring out what's best for their kids. Well,

Well, there's something, sorry, something else we talked about last night I want to bring up is if you, if you see homeschooling as replicating public school at the home, then that that's not what we're trying to do here. We're we're just doing it completely differently. We're doing it by intuition. We're doing it by the child's readiness. We're doing it by the child's learning styles. You know, we're not trying to recreate public school system in the home because number one, why would we do that? And number two, it's inefficient. And number three, We have one teacher and multiple kids, and we don't have any administrators, we don't have secretaries, we have, we're it. So we have to make everything happen. So don't think you have to replicate the system that we pulled our kids out of. Right? It's not, the difference is not just the location. So, yeah. Well,

Well, thanks for sharing all that. I know you get more, keep going. If you want, I don't know if you, you know, I don't want, I don't want to cut you off. So

Yeah. I was going to say that if you try to do it the public school way, you are going to feel overwhelmed. You're going to feel anxiety. You're going to feel stressed out. And when you are feeling that way, your child is going to feel that way as well. And that is an inhibitor to the whole idea of what homeschooling is. Can be for you and your family when you allow You you allow the the goodness and truth and light and principles to just kind of flow through your life and and uh, and Let you know that this is what your children need. And, and you're, you'll be out of tune with all of that if you're focused in the wrong place. And so when we're focused on our children and their individual needs and their individual learning styles, and we just find joy. in getting to know them and how they learn and then we can recognize, uh, what they most need and we'll be in tune with them and they will be happier and they will want to learn. They won't, they won't get all, you know, I don't want to go to school today. Why do I have to do more work? You know, they'll just be like, uh, like they'll, they'll come up to us all the time asking us questions. They want to learn. They, they want to know. And I think that's such a natural thing for children that is stamped out of them when people are like, Oh, you're asking me another question. Go away.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I

that's not what we're looking for

the

kids love to

learn. There's actually, there's a, I have a book behind us called Laziness is a Myth. And I, I picked up the book because of the title because I heard it so much when I was growing up. Um, in, even in my family, there is such an assumption that if a child doesn't want to do homework, it is because he or she is lazy. And that's just such a myth. It's just not true. Human beings naturally, you're never going to have a baby who's too lazy to learn how to walk. They love to learn. Right? Like, have you ever seen a baby who's too lazy to learn how to walk? Human beings want to advance themselves, that is a natural progression. It's a natural expression of being human. And so if you, if you perceive them as being lazy, number one, you're really already hurting that relationship. Number two, your assumption is going to cause you to make decisions that's not going to be productive. And number three, it's just not true. Something doesn't fit, and then you call it, you give it a label, and your responsibility is Handed away. Right. If you, if you say it, the child's lazy, then it's not my fault.

feel like it's also, you can make an analogy with the fiat system, where

they

break something. And then somehow it's your

fault, right? You know, it's

greedy capitalist

or whatever.

you're like, wait a minute, we're, we're not in

our free market.

And if you,

um, if you

look at it, the schools, someone trying to say this kid doesn't like to learn,

No,

kids love to learn. problem is

the system.

They don't like. And all those other things we were just listing out, the artificial timing, the subjects, the being confined in your seat and not being able to run around and

being

segregated by age and everything else. They don't like all that. That's not, and then here's how you, all the things you're forced to memorize and things that you don't think you're ever going to use again. That's what they don't like. The truth is it's, it's the, the type of system being forced on them that they're rebelling against. It's not, they don't like learning. Kids fundamentally love learning. To learn and then you beat it out of them with the with the other system, Right, so. oh

I think human beings in general, we, we innately want to learn, but yeah. Like you just said, it gets beaten out of so

beaten out of you.

I

think we're gonna talk to you guys, right? We need to get together sometime and play like some board games together. I don't know if you guys do family board games I'm very but I'm very biased with

Oh, yes.

because the fellowship and Leanne. I don't know how much Jason told you That's kind of my thing. I like to

you know,

Make games to help teach. So it's, that's the dual thing. You get to have fun,

you get

fellowship, but as you know, the educator in me wants to have something in there that's a little juicier if you want it. So

we need

to get together sometime to do that. I don't know. Next time we're going to be in your area or conference or whatever, but, uh, Jason, I got it. Like, can you just give two, two, like, let's,

I

don't know if everybody knows, like,

like

all the stuff that you're really into, and I think

it's, it's

worthwhile. They know you're a little bit about your background.

Okay. Yeah. And I told a little bit about my Bitcoin story, but, uh, so I guess the other kind of stuff I do, um, all in the Bitcoin space, um, I am the ambassador concierge at Sattlantis. Um, so Sattlantis, uh, for all listeners who don't know is, um, A Noster client. Now, Noster, that's a whole other rabbit hole. Uh, uh, uh, the purple pill rabbit hole, not the, not the orange pill one. But, uh, Noster basically is, uh, uh, a protocol, not a platform like Twitter and Facebook and stuff is a protocol like Bitcoin, uh, for, um, uh, uh, your, um, oh, I identity, um. Yeah, I guess yeah your identity on the the internet for like your reputation study that so you have one sign in for a Lot of different places. It's uh, you're basically the identity layer of the internet Anyway, uh, so setlantis is built on top of that. So that's itself is a It's an app and and website for um Uh, travelers like nomads and communities like local communities. Um, so like a community and travelers social app or and super app is always everything in there that, uh, it's like TripAdvisor and Facebook groups and meetup. com and a bunch of other things all wrapped up into one. Uh, it's all this, uh, like if TripAdvisor had more of a social function built into it, a bit like that. Um, And all built on top of Nostr, so it comes with the added benefit of, um, uh, censorship resistance, and if you go from one Nostr app, like Sattlantis, to, um, another one, like Primal, or Domus, or Amethyst, then, uh, all your followers, and all your, uh, your posts, all the people you're following, uh, your, your profile, everything is already there waiting for you, for you, at all these different apps. It's the same identity. So anyway, um, so yeah, I work there at, uh, Soutlantis as the ambassador concierge. I basically help the leaders of each of the cities that are listed on Soutlantis, help them get up and going. And I'm kind of the ambassador for all the ambassadors, you could say. Uh, and I also help with a lot of the, uh, the marketing and like the social aspect, like the Soutlantis posts on like Twitter and, uh, and Nostr. Um, but also on the side, I am also the, um, um, Meetup organizer for our local Bitcoin meetup here, um, uh, near us, uh, Chattanooga, Tennessee. Uh, if anyone listening to this is ever in the, uh, Chattanooga, Tennessee area on a third Saturday of the month, um, come, come visit us. You can also pop on to Satlantis, look up Chattanooga, and you can see our upcoming meetups, uh, all, all the upcoming events, um, that are listed there. Uh, let's see. And then I think lastly, I'll say I, uh, put together, oh, sorry. One year old in the background here, but, um, I put together a book, uh, called 21 questions, which is the top 21 questions all about Bitcoin. Um, this book, I, uh, so I used to work, uh, on the, well, the same team as Atlantis. We were working on something called the spirit of Satoshi. Excuse us.

No, you're fine. Authentic.

Okay. Okay. Big brother. You got him. So, all right. Um, But uh, oh yeah, where I took the 21, not just most asked questions, not just like the, like, the FAQs of Bitcoin, um, but like the most important ones that knew, that anyone new to Bitcoin, uh, would need to know. I gathered those, and then I reached out to a bunch of different Bitcoiners, uh, really well known Bitcoiners, uh, Saifuddin Ahmed, I did reach out to him, didn't get any, uh, response back, in the back room, but people like that, uh, so Guy Swan, Jacques Mazzucco, Alexander Svetsky, who I work for at Satlantis, um, Natalie Brunel and a bunch of other like big names in the Bitcoin space and I asked them these questions Uh, they didn't answer all of them, but they each picked a few uh, like at least like three to five or something then guy swan picked like 18 to answer

That sounds like Guy.

Yeah Um, and uh, so they all gave their answers, uh, to, uh, to each of these questions, the ones that they chose. And they put it all together into a book. And then all 21 questions are answered by the spirit of Satoshi. Now the spirit of Satoshi is a, uh, an AI, kind of like ChatGPT, that is built and trained on everything ever taught, ever said, ever written about Bitcoin. Uh, so like the ultimate Bitcoin, uh, expert. And, uh, so it gives its answer, kind of culminating that, um, uh, in the book. And the book kind of had, um, was made with one purpose, but then I discovered kind of a, a, a second purpose. Uh, I like to think of it as like the, there's the tip of the iceberg, and then the, the rest of the iceberg underneath. The tip of the iceberg reason for the book, the purpose for it is to, uh, teach people about Bitcoin. If you, if there's a family member or friend who starts asking questions, just hand them this book. They don't have to read from beginning to end. They can just flip to question four or question 19 or whatever. Um, and find the question that, that they have. A lot of times we have questions in our mind. We haven't really formulated. We haven't really articulated, but then we see it. There's question number eight or something. I'm like, Oh, Oh, that I've had a question about that. Like I've been wondering that myself, but it doesn't just give an answer. It gives an answer from Giacomo Zucco, it gives an answer from Samson Mao, it gives an answer from Guy Swann, and the Spirit of Satoshi. All these different angles, uh, so then you, you, you get a different angle on the answer. But then that gets into the deeper purpose of the book. What happens when you understand Bitcoin, now you've started to, um, get involved in the Bitcoin space, you've bought some Bitcoin, and you have another question that isn't talked about in the book, um, who do you turn to? There's a lot of other voices out there. There's a lot of noise a lot of people in general cryptocurrency who aren't bitcoin maximalists, uh, but who are Into light some of the other coins. I was going to save them by name, but now I won't um That uh, I don't want to give them any more spotlight than they already have And So who are you going to turn to for answers? Well, those people will be eager to give you answers that are going to lead you very much astray But I, I very carefully reached out to all these different Bitcoiners, like 16 or 17 different Bitcoiners who helped me write the book and gave me all those different answers. Um, that these are, these people are well known in the space. They have a lot of proof of work. Um, uh, where they're very reliable. You, you can, I want to use this word carefully, you can trust them. I'm not saying trust blindly. No, still go and verify. But when you're brand new, these are the kinds of people to listen to. These are the kinds of people you should follow on social media. And so when something brand new comes up that wasn't even an issue earlier, some new development in Bitcoin or something, these are the people who have some of the best perspectives.

hmm.

And, uh, Yeah, and so it's kind of the deeper purpose of it then points you to who you can listen to for the rest of it. So, I did that, I made, I created that book last year, so it came out in April 2024. Um, then, um, I'm currently working on the second book. Um, uh, of that. And I actually have a plan to do a whole bunch of 21 questions books. Oh, and my wife was kind enough to get a copy. Uh, I don't know, well, listeners won't be able to see it,

yeah, yeah,

Well, we're going to have a, we'll have a

purple book here.

yeah.

Okay, great. Yeah, it's available on Amazon. Uh, 21 questions. Uh, but I'm working on the Nostra edition of it. So the same plan, no Spirit of Satoshi this time, but the same format. I'm reaching out to a bunch of people who are well known in Nostra who know their Nostra stuff. These are like the developers and programmers and famous people on it and things like that. You know, people like that, who, um, and asking them the top 21 questions about Nostr. In the future, I plan to make more of these 21 questions books. 21 questions about homeschooling, for example. Uh, 21 questions about, um, uh, like, natural health, or, you know, and diet and eating right. Um, 21 questions about, um, self defense. Or about parenting or about just whatever topic it is, especially if it's a topic that has to do with sovereign individualism, a person really relying less on government and on other outsourcing things. No, in source, bring it in. And, uh, um, if you're new to that, that whole topic, well, here's a great book to help you get started. That, um, from all these different experts in the space, all giving their own answers.

Yeah,

I love the theme. I love it. I love that I could see that

playing out.

Well, guys, you guys were wonderful. Don't hang up. We're gonna stop the recording, but you guys stay right there Thank you so much for sharing with everybody