So, there's a couple of points here. Uh, one of them is the, the "ideaverse" and the other one is about the Bible. And what I was gonna say is, I watched David Perel's podcast a month ago? Two months ago? Um, where he actually spoke about the Bible being the best way for people to be educated. Um, and self help lessons and all the things that are popular on social media now have actually been written in the Bible. I haven't read. Any version of the Bible. One, I'm not religious, as in I don't hold a faith, I'm atheist. And two, the Bible and its stories were thrown down my throat in school, because I went to a Church of England school, uh, all the way through from like five years old all the way to 16. So, Jesus and God and all of the stories were thrown at me, I sung the hymns at school as well, and I, it wasn't interesting to me. So I've never read the Bible, and I've never wanted to read the Bible, and I don't like reading to start with, uh, unless, unless I'm interested in the topic. So, with that preface, I don't see how reading a bible can make you educated, but that's me.

Yeah, I am also the exact same. Like, putting the religious side aside, don't just take it all out because that is, as David Pearl said in his tweet, like, that's not what he's saying. So, putting religion aside, just from, like, a purely Theoretical lens of like, being an educated, well read person, and having to know things. Like, those words were like, ugh, like, ugh. None of that makes any sense. Even if we assume the IP approach, it still doesn't make any sense. It was, it was such a blanket statement, which wasn't really expected. I'm like, you should read them, and I wonder, because David Perel is American.

He's either American or Canadian, I can never fully tell, uh, with the people over there, but yeah.

And

I'm wondering whether that is the, because if religion here in the UK is not, it's part of a, of like, society. But it is also isn't everything?

I think the, I think over in the States, religion holds more of an impact in society than, again, I'm not 100 percent sure, but when I listen to conversations, just interactions in general in the, in the States, uh, in the US, depending on the part of the country, the state you're in, they seem to emphasize God. a lot more than you would in the UK. Even people that are Christian in the UK, you wouldn't know. Like, the only reason you would know someone is Christian is because they go to church on a Sunday. Maybe. Because a lot of Christians don't even go to church. And some people go to church, but they're not Christian.

Because

they go for the community aspect. And then, when you actually look at the, the religious numbers inside of the UK, I think it's 48 percent is Christian, and the remaining 52 is A combination of loads of others, because England isn't white British people. It's, it's, it's a lot of different people, uh, all in one country. And when I hear well read, it makes me question, like I say, like I said, I don't know what's in the Bible, but it makes me question what's actually in the Bible, because I can't imagine neuroscience being in the Bible. I can't imagine Uh, any of the, well, any of the political discussions, really, that's going on right now would be in the Bible. Like, how is it going to talk about mobile phones? They didn't exist. How is it going to talk about AI? That doesn't exist. How is it going to talk about plagiarism? That wouldn't have existed. Like, misinformation online, again, wouldn't have existed. Believing someone else over another, well, that's trust, okay? What are your values of trust? What is trust? Does it say what trust is? To a certain degree, but it's so It has an opinion about trust, it'll have an opinion about what trust is, but it can't know, because it's a philosophy. I think that, that's the,

that's what I found so, just, uh, the word is obnoxious, it's not the right, quite the right word, but that's the word I've got, it's like, it felt very obnoxious, of like, If you want to be a well read person and having to know things, you should be literate in the Bible. Like, no, I shouldn't. Why? What does that have to do I've read the Bible. I grew up Christian. My whole family was Christian. I read it. What the heck does that have to do with anything now? Sorry, but no. It's just There is always something good that can come out of most conversations. But this one feels Just on the edge of dangerous. Because it's like, wow. Either you have made a huge number of assumptions, Or I just couldn't A lot of what David Perel says I actually find interesting. Do I agree entirely? No. But I find his thoughts interesting. But this film was very, like

A leap. Yes. A massive leap. I'm just saying, I don't, I don't agree with a lot of what David Perreault says, but this, it's not you're wrong, it's, I have a different approach, right? I'm coming from a different approach. So I find the points that he makes. It's interesting to start conversations, continue conversations, question my own assumptions, which is why I follow his content, which is why I follow a lot of people's content. If you actually look at my, uh, my following list, I follow more people that I disagree with than people that I agree with. Because if you follow people you agree with, you go, yep, great. And that's it. That's the end. So I prefer to follow people that I disagree with in some way, but. When, when you shared that, that tweet with me, it reminded me of the podcast and it reminded me of my experience when I was listening to it, when I was walking the dog. And I was listening to it and I was thinking, I really don't get what the Bible is teaching, that you can't already learn either naturally through experiences, empiricism, or through engagement with other people already, which arguably is empiricism, but with Other people already, you don't need, it's funny it relates to the article I'm writing at the moment about cognitive load theory, you don't need explicit instruction to learn these things. You don't need to read words to learn these values. You can embody these values within your actions without explicitly knowing how to explain them.

Links back to my relationship with ecological psychology. I was doing all of these things without realizing what I was doing, and I just assigned the IP approach because that is the common approach. But really, as I've been exploring and explaining and conversing around this, I'm like, oh wait, that's why I do these things the way that these, that, that, that, and this way, like, and it just almost Because one of the questions I was always asked is, how do you get all these things done? How do you do so much? And my answer was that I don't really know, because I just do it. And it was, it was, my partner was like, yeah, well, I can't just do it. Like, it doesn't work like that. Like, you say do it, but that doesn't make any sense. And I'm like, Interesting. Because as far as I'm concerned, I am just doing it. It's like, okay, I want to do this, I'm gonna go do it. Like, you know, behavior. Action oriented behavior. Like, and just, here's a behavior that I want, I'm gonna go do it. I want to get this done. Oh, I've had an idea for a piece of content now. It's actually really exciting me. I'm gonna go write it. And it, it, it is, it is fundamentally simple,

which I think throws people. I was on a call with someone yesterday and we were talking about writing academic articles and they said, I really don't know how to Think non linearly. They were in academia. They were looking at this article, this essay assignment and say, right, I have my outline and I need to write my outline. And then she made an outline and I said, why did you make the outline? Well, because I need to include these points. Yeah, but how do you know it's going to be in that order? And how do you know you want those points later on? Well, I don't. So, what are you struggling with? I keep having to change my outline. So why make the outline? So I have steps to follow. But why do you need those steps to follow? How do you know those are those steps? Well, I don't know. So don't make the steps yet. Don't make the outline yet. You know in an academic paper you need an introduction. What goes in that introduction you don't know because you haven't done the thinking around the research yet. So you can't plan out what you're going to write there. And it's the same with every other action. You can't know what you're going to do until you're doing it. This comes back to one of the points that I've, I've made, uh, previously in videos, is are the, are the tools, are the features, are the whatever, helping you be organized? At a specific point in time, you are now organized, or does it help you with organizing? Does it help you with the process of organizing what it is that you're doing? And we go on to tags inside of Obsidian. Tags help you be organized. You have grouped everything into tags, great. What happens when you change the tags? What happens when you add something? Or something needs to move somewhere else? Well, now you need to work out where it is, find it, either change the tag name, change the tag in the file, or change a whole group of tags. And then you're going to spend so much

time not doing the thing. Exactly. But instead, actually, like planning the thing, organizing, being organized. And there's something I was talking to a client about, uh, recently around their, what they wanted to do and, and, uh, I don't know what to do and I want to know what to do next. And I'm like, okay, cool. You want to know what to do next? Why? Well, so I have a direction. Okay, cool. Let's do that then. Right. What's next? What have you got? Oh, I don't know. It's immediately, I'm like, I'm not, or, that is an, I do know, but I'm not sure which one is correct, and I'm, and it's like, okay, well, let's look at, and they literally pulled out this amazing, like, piece of paper where they've written out their entire process that they follow when helping their clients, and I'm like, what's that? What's, what's that? That does, that, there you go.

There's loads of stuff.

Yeah, you've done it and that that's often the thing like even for my own my own stuff It's like often I'm like, how do I do all of these things? How did I how do I start all these things and I got myself caught up with that Like this week, with the clips for this channel. And I was like, oh, which ones do I choose first? And, and, oh, I need to edit some of them. And I was looking into whether Opus Clips or Descript was a better solution. Instead of just posting the damn frickin clips. I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah, I knew it was, yeah. And I'm like, and and then, and I wasn't happy with the quality of the clips 'cause the cutting was not quite right. And I'm like, okay, why do I have one? Why do I have to have a binary of deciding between Opus clips and DS script versus just using Opus Script to get the first bits and then DS script to cut it up and just tidy it up a tiny bit. Why? And it was like, yeah, cool. And it's also the thing with, like, how do I record a video on recording what I've said and done my reaction content? I'm like, why am I making this so damn hard for myself? Push to record. To

be fair,

why am I overthinking each individual piece of it instead of just Doing it.

All right.

All right, cool. And it was the same with because I created a piece of content for my um my newsletter about over commitment and choice which was Received really interestingly and people had really cool ideas and it was me starting to Be confident in the ecological language and explaining it, and then I'm like, I did the basic information giving people something to start with, it's the now and next, it's the adding a massive constraint to help you actually go into a direction based on your behaviors that you want to in it. Exhibit and what you want to actually achieve versus what you think you should and then I was like Oh, I could expand this so much and started writing an entire blog post. Then I started diving into the Assumptions of the traditional approach versus and I'm like, oh crap But it was and whereas before it was that oh, I'm going to write an article about this I'm going to do I need to do this. How do I do this? Where do I whereas When I started writing this one, which I'm still writing because I want to move a few pieces around a little bit, and clarify it with you. Um, it was very much like, oh this is, okay cool, so I want to give some context for people who like to dive deeper because a blog post can be longer, and I can update this post as well, versus an email, it's out, it's sent, it's done. And

so

I started putting in the traditional approach and the contrasting of. the traditional approach versus the approach I use, which is the ecological approach. And it was interesting because it was just like, oh yeah, I know what that is. That's in the book. I can take that from the book. I'll put, put a reference. And it became easier and easier as I was going. I was like, oh, that'd be cool. Use the, the, um, eye thing that everyone knows. Because obviously these images are on the back of our eye and it gets flipped upside down and we have a copy of the world that isn't actually accurate and accurate. And it was fun because I was. I noticed as I was doing it, I'm like, wow, I'm actually making an argument that's based on that I'm now very distracted by a dog. That's adorable. She wanted attention. I'm here for attention and that is that. That is all that happens. And it was nice because I was like, ah. Because I built the task taming for busy brains product, which was basically my first foray of poking. The ecological approach into business. Poking, whatever. Putting the ecological approach into business, um, without using the words. But now I had that, which is great, because then I can advertise a product at the same time as it, as teaching. And it's just fun, because I'm able to go through all the assumptions and then I've got multiple pieces of content ready to go out. Because I'm just interested in talking about it.

I think, I mean, like, going backwards, I don't think that sort of thing, I haven't read the Bible so I don't know, but I don't think that sort of thing is explained in the Bible? No. I can't imagine any of those stories being there, so how does the Like, going back to our original point, how does the Bible help you with that? I mean, it can help you with overall values, but how does it help you manage and work your way through those struggles?

No, it doesn't. It's just where you pray. Okay, cool, great, thanks. Once again, once again, it takes it outside of my direct control of being able to do something about it and puts it, I cannot take action, I do not have, it's indirect, it's once again indirect, meaning I have no control, meaning I have no influence, meaning I am just waiting on someone else to make it happen, or to fix it, or to make it better. Versus being able to have that

agency. I reckon because of, because of the stories, my guess is that David is referring to the interpretations you could get from the stories told inside of the Bible. If you're reading a story, what one person sees in the story and another person sees are going to be different things. So I'm not sure how, how telling a story will help if there's not experience around Whatever lesson someone learns from the story.

And also, if you look at religion and, and, and Christianity, and the splinters of that, there are multiple kind of religions, I suppose, that are related to the Bible. Some is just focused on the Old Testament, some is just focused on the New Testament, and they have Remarkably different perceptions of the book and what that means. Some take it very literary, some take it not literary. And it's like, so how is it useful to be well read? Like, what does that even mean to be well read? What does it even mean to be The tone, because I've just put it in the episode I did, because I was just like An educated person, like, that, that assumes, that assumes that there is a level of educated and that it stops, and that we stop learning.

Have you, I don't know whether you've read, but have you read my article about reading proficiency? No. The one that went, oh, okay. Because I was, the, so the video's coming out at some point today, I think, I scheduled it, and it's about Gen Alpha and their reading proficiency, and I wrote an article and I released the article last week. And when. Going through reading, for whatever reason, the school system, the education system, says you can read, you can't read, you are proficient, you are not proficient. But reading isn't, well, I don't think, reading is a, okay, I'm recognizing the symbols, I can turn those symbols into sounds. I don't think that's what reading proficiency is. I don't think expert readers can do that. Well, they can do that, but I don't think that's just what they do. Because they also have a meaning behind the words and it's the meaning behind the words in relation to other words and the context they are in. Because some people will read in one environment better than another environment. So yeah, you learn how to read in different environments, whether it is with a screen, whether it is with a book. Maybe it's a different type of text, so you want to read it on an e reader, or a screen, or an e reader and a screen, Or maybe you want to listen to it and read the words. Well, is that reading, or is that listening? I would argue it is still reading. Yeah. So when you look at, oh, they are well read, What does well read mean? They have read lots of information, dense information, Information about what area, what level of expertise, like, what does that mean?

It reminds me of a constant conversation and discussion I have with people around me of like, Oh, you, you're so good at reading. And I'm like, what do you mean? It's like, well, you just take in all of this knowledge and I'm like What do you mean? What do you mean? Well, well, it takes me ages to read one page of this and it's, and you just look through it and you can read it. That's because I read academically dense stuff. Get me in a dense paper or I'm going to be just as quote unquote slow as you. It just depends on what I'm reading. It's context dependent. I can't just read everything, take in everything. And that's the assumption that they come with. And I'm like, no, it just depends on what I'm reading. Some things I read, I can read really quickly. Because most blog posts, most articles, most things that other people read, are general population. So they are I've heard it all before.

Yeah, that's, so when I'm writing an article at the moment about cognitive load theory, and they argue that there are biological primary and biological secondary skills. Biological primary skills is you don't need explicit instruction, uh, you're intrinsically motivated to do it, and there's lots of other things related, but when I look at reading, You, like I said, you don't have a, yes, you can read, no, you can't read. And the idea that you are wired to speak and not wired to read is odd. Obviously it's assuming that you have wiring in your brain that says you, you can acquire this skill faster than that skill. No, it's experience. When you learn to speak, what is that? Well, you're listening to noises and you're interpreting. Interpreting, again, I'm speaking cognitive load here, interpreting the sounds other people are saying, and then you're using that information to help you learn the skill. That, that, that takes years. And, and you're saying, oh, reading, reading takes longer. Sorry, does it? Does it really? When you look at the amount of experience people have with reading, and they look at symbols, it also takes years. When you look at speaking, speaking can take far longer than reading, for some people, say for example, the deaf. Like, deaf people learning to speak is extremely difficult because their element of feedback is hindered, obviously, because they can't hear themselves. They can't hear the noises that they're making, and it's very difficult for them to learn to speak. But writing? They learn that as quickly, maybe quicker, than people that can hear, because they rely more on written symbols and sign language than others. So it's not biological, primary or secondary, or they're wired or not wired. No, they're learning from experience. And the experience that they're learning can help or hinder whatever skill it is that they want to develop. That skill that they're going to develop has levels of expertise in whatever context they're going to be put in more often than not. So, when I'm reading articles about ecological psychology, then I have a level of expertise that allows me to get through those papers fairly quickly. If I'm reading an article about the free energy principle, I may be a little bit slower, but I'm familiar with some of the topics. If I'm reading an article about atmospheric physics, I have no idea what that's talking about. I'm gonna be googled to find in half those words, because I don't know what they mean. Does it mean that I'm an, uh, I'm an improficient reader? I'm not good at reading? No. I'm not good at reading in that context because I don't have expertise there. So what does reading proficient mean? What does well read mean? Well, it's going to be context specific. The relationship between the organism and the environment. Crazy, right? Yeah. Am I well read in the Bible? No, never read it. Do I want to be well read in the Bible? No. And I think it's the same for all other areas or other areas of potential interest. Do you want to be well read? Do you want to be educated in that area, in that topic, in that level, area of expertise? Yes or no? And I would argue the yes or no comes down to you goal directed behavior. If you don't want to be good at that thing, why would you? Is there a reason to do it? If not, then you won't do it. That's literally the issue with schools. Kids aren't learning to read nowadays. Yeah, but what reason are you giving them to read? To pass the test? Why do they need to pass the test? Like, why do they need to be able to read to pass the test? Yeah, okay, but, but why do they need to be able to read? If you're not giving them a reason, they won't learn, because they're bored. They don't want to learn a skill that they don't see a point in. How many times have, have adults come, like, come out of school, or, well, adults, or young adults, whatever age, and said, I didn't see the point of learning this in school, or why did we learn this in school, or this was pointless learning this in school? Because there's no reason to. No, no. If there's no reason to learn it, then it's going to be very, very, very difficult to teach it. Because the individual doesn't care about learning. They don't see the point of learning it. And that's where education comes into this conversation.

Yeah, and then you, you can also bring the, the labels of, like, neurodiverse individuals, the gifted kids who spent all their time learning and then came out and then now can't function in the world and how hard that is. And it's like, yes, because none of it suddenly, and that's what In some ways, we are being trained to do, is to pass the test, so that when we come out of that experience, we're no longer looking to pass the test, so we don't know how to do things! And that's not, that's not necessarily just, uh, a neurodiverse thing. It is a, it is, it is a true thing for most people because you end up getting stuck in that, like, okay, I'm doing a test, I'm gonna pass my test, I'm gonna pass my test, and then when the test is gone, there is no motivation, and I am unmotivated, and I just don't know how to do things now. Because I don't have a test telling me what I need to achieve, and giving that, that gratification, that direction, and, and, and the same with business. It's like, I was, I had, I was speaking to someone as well around email marketing, and they were like, I, what's a good average, uh, open rate and, like, click through rate? And I, I can give you that answer, but I don't think it will give you what you want. I think you're asking the wrong question. It was very much Ill posed questions. It's an ill posed question, thank you. What do you want? Because I got very stuck in that with my emails. And I think with my YouTube and with all of those things, it's like, the stats, the stats, the stats. They are valuable, yes. Or they can have value. If used within context of, like, what do I want to do? What do I, like, when I sent the email, 16 people unsubscribed. Okay, so that was a bad email. Well, was it because one person literally went into another community and posted saying, this is amazing. I love this. This has been really helpful to me. And that to me is far more showing and telling that someone actually put the effort. 'cause we've got enough to do. There's always something more to do. But to actually go, no, I fricking love this means that it mattered. Which, if it matters, that's the important thing. And it's like, I had a 38. 8 percent open rate on that post, on that article. And I was like, that's not bad, that's not bad. And I have around 12, well, 1, 2, 2, 3 subscribers. So that's 400 people opened that email. And I'm like Damn, that's not bad. That's 400 people opening that email. Now whether it is 400 is obviously blah blah blah tech blah blah blah, but even if, even if like half of those people actually opened and actually read it, I'm like, I'm happy. Because that's a huge number of people.

I think we can get lost in the numbers online sometimes when you see the, oh, 100, 000 views and 100 views and whatever. Yeah, but look at Classroom. Classroom's 25 kids. Yeah, 200 people that that's a lot of classrooms. Um, I was I was browsing around to try and find because uh writing this article I wrote a line and I really liked the line. I said when doing the wrong thing better it makes it worse And I was like, yes, and that's how I feel. A lot of people are Working through education, they do the wrong thing better, they get better at passing tests. And then when it comes to not needing to pass the test, and they go into the real world and they have to learn on their own without explicit instruction from teachers, or step by step guidelines, uh, or there's no right answer for the test, it's, okay, we've got to figure this out, you're, you're awful at it. And I say your as in adults, like adults are awful at it when they come out of school because school hasn't taught them how to do life It's taught them how to do school not life so those students that are better they are better at being worse at life Which is why I think the BC students do better than the A students and a STAR students when it comes to living life. I mean, you look at all the business entrepreneurs and con uh, and content creators and stuff. They are the, the BC students. Not many of the a a star students are doing the entrepreneurship life because they found their step-by-step instruction following job, and they just sit in their corporate jobs and do that. Most of them.

Yeah, it's hilarious because if you look at my GCSEs, I got a D for music and spent nearly five years teaching guitar. And the only reason why I didn't get a C when I was told why was because I missed one of the tests.

Yep, that'll do it. It's, I mean, for me, when I was at, when I was at school, and I was looking through all the grades, and all the criterias, I, I was one of those kids, I was, I was one of the kids that people hated, because I was just good at most subjects, like I was in top set for everything except from English because my written English was awful because I hated reading. Um, English was my worst subject and I got a C in it. Um, everything else I got a B. I got, I left school with 18 B's, 2 C's, an A and an A star, um, in my GCSE. So I got, I got a lot of grades, but I didn't revise for any of it. I didn't pay attention to any of it. I didn't do half my homework because I just, I just didn't care. I was just interested. In whatever it was that I was learning and like, I found a reason to be interested in something that we were learning and then I just followed that I, I was annoying to all of the teachers. because I was never doing what I was meant to be doing, but I was always getting good grades. I was, I was the kid that was like, how do you do well in the tests when you don't do any of your homework? You're not paying attention in lesson, you're staring out the window half the time. Uh, and I'm like, uh, I don't know. Now I would say, well, I'm learning about the topic. I'm developing my expertise in a topic, but in a way that suits me. I, my books would be full of random, random drawings, random writing, random maths. I was never doing the problems that was on the board. I was making up my own problems. Teacher would come around and say, so where are you on the board? Uh, I'm on question two, sir. Yeah, but we've got like five minutes left of the lesson. Yeah, but I've done all of these questions and they were like the extended questions for the advanced people that finished everything. Yeah, but why did you skip them? And I was like, because these are boring. These are easy. So I would just went into those instead. Yeah, but you're not meant to do that. I don't care. That's what interested me. So I went and did that. And that's how I did. That's how I feel I did well in school is I didn't follow that what the teachers said, but I was still focused on Developing expertise and learning what I wanted to learn in the topic and that I think helped me when I went to university University still threw me on my ass Because it's so different it is literally a right you have an essay good go to it. Where's the instructions? What do I have to do? Tell me what I need to do. No figure out Okay, what's the marking criteria? This really vague list of bullet points. Hey. Which is why I struggled in my second year uni. I'd never, I'd never failed anything at university. Then suddenly, I'm, I'm given this test that I don't really know how to pass, I don't know what to do. I'm going to fail. My, my world was essentially turned upside down. It's interesting

because it, it, It makes me think about my two, like, from a parent perspective of like, we're often told to help our kids and do it for them and just make it easy for them and I'm just like That's the assumption of like, they're struggling, go and do it for them. But one of the good things that I find quite funny with mine, which drives them insane, but also I know what's happening, it was around like, I'm bored. I'm like, okay, this is not my problem. Like, okay, you'd be bored then. Oh, well, can I go on my tech? Not right now. Play piano. What about that? Oh yeah, I can do that. All right, go on then. Oh, I don't know how to do this. I said, oh well, go, go try. Go figure it out. And it is very, because, because that's what's going to happen. If they go to university, they're going to be told to figure it out. And that's how life works. They're going to be told to figure it out. Instead of doing it for them, and stopping them from failing miserably. Because my little boy really struggles with getting things wrong. I don't know anyone who doesn't. But it really. Affects him when he gets things wrong.

But it will do because when we first learn, failure is obviously bad because if you fall over, it hurts. Like, that's failure. When you fall over as a child, it hurts. When you put your finger in a plug socket, it really hurts. Like, if you touch something hot, it really hurts. So failure, when you're young, because you're not familiar with the, I guess, the cognitive side of failure. or the more cognitive sides of failure, of oh you look bad, like the social elements. Those sorts of failures are different, but you assume failure is physical harm, which is painful, which is not true. But unless you, unless you learn that that's not true, you're gonna think that social failure It's painful. And that's how I think we develop this biopsychosocial model of pain. Because when we develop and we learn through our experiences, pain, physical pain, is when we fail. And when we fail in society, that also should be painful. But why should it be painful? Yeah. What makes it painful to us? Oh, you failed. Why is that bad? What makes that bad? And that's where the punishments and the consequences come in. Okay, unwelcome situations are needed for constraints, and for restrictions, and for people to learn. Yes, definitely required. However The

consequences are, they're not good, they're not bad, they just are. There are consequences to everything that you do. Exactly. Not punishments. Consequences. Yes. And that's literally, yeah, that's something that I really worked hard on. Because, uh, in, when I was young, it was punishments. Because that's what was, that's what we were all told. It's like, you make your child work this way and they do as they're told. And it, you know, you have to make them behave. And that Society is what it was. It was punishments, punishments, punishments, punishments. Um, but for us it never worked because they didn't care. They just, they just didn't care. Like, it's like, all right, fine. I go sit the stairs and they're occupy myself for a good hour or so. And I'm like, yeah, fair enough. The punishment isn't the punishment, so that's fine. Cool. And then when we switch to consequences, still. They're still annoyed by them because I think there is still that assumption of this is a punishment, but then it's just, is this a punishment? No, it's this. If you do this, this is, this is what happens. Like, this is the consequence of your actions. Oh, there's always consequences. I'm like, yes, there are. That's life. Yeah. Yes. There are always consequences. Everything has consequences. Not good. Not bad. They just happen. There are consequences. That is it. And the one that's driving my little boy mad at the moment, in particularly my little boy mad at the moment is, well, I didn't save her. Yeah, but your actions did, and your actions speak louder than what you say to me. And it's funny, but he has also turned around and gone and said that to me, and I'm like yes, you are right, because it's true. What I said and what I did were different, and that's okay, because I'm still going to fail, even now.

Yep, and I think that's healthy, like them being able to point Point out, like, like being able to point out your mistakes or your errors or things that you're doing that doesn't, like, sort of like the hypocrite sort of thing, because when, when I was younger, I would, no, I, I could not say, say to my dad, Oh, you're a hypocrite. No, that, that, that was, that was not allowed. Um, but I think it's healthy. Because, one, the adult recognises, Oh, actually, yeah, maybe I'm not doing what I, I'm teaching people to do. But also, the child is recognising, actually, No, that, that is something that I don't like. I don't want to do that. Which I think we, we've done. Like, the Millennials have done. Which is why we don't do the physical punishments. Because we don't want to do that. But what we do instead Well, that, that's the question. Yeah, it's

interesting. It, it's, uh, it's just fun.

Yeah, your, your other point on here is about idea emergence.

Uh, What did you

want to bring up specifically about idea

emergence? I read it again, and I was just like, Why are we making this harder? Why do we keep making th It's like If you want to do this, you need to look at this whole entire system that has been created and constrained in this very specific environment that is very specific to my own wants and I don't know why because I can see where you're going with it but you're like, you're like this close and then you're like, What?

Would you say it's So, actually, for context, for those that are unfamiliar with what we're referring to, the idea, or the idea emergence, is that you start with small parts, and you combine them into bigger parts, and those bigger parts become ideas, and they emerge from the small parts. That's essentially idea emergence in a nutshell, which is just Emergence. It's something that happens. It's natural. It's nature. Like, you can't force it to happen or not to happen. It happens. And

that's the thing I found really, really tough about this conversation, was like, it, the whole thing was like, you need to make it happen. And I'm like, why? Serendipity

is emergence.

Like, like, I was really excited when I read it, and I was like, oh, idea emergence, you mean emergence. And then I read it, and I'm like, No, you're telling me how to, you're telling me how, you're dictating it. No, stop it. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. Shut up. The more I read, I was like, oh, we've got emergence level one. Emergence level, no, no. Emergence is emergence. It just happens. So how do you navigate complexity?

Experience.

You, you do navigate. We all navigate. The assumption is we can't navigate complexity. That's one of the, well, one of the assumptions. Like, alongside a whole host of others. It's like, but you can. And we do. And we do. Every day. Things emerge and, and, and happen. What am I thinking? A good example of this was, I've been talking to my clients. My clients have given me ideas for content. I write that content. That is idea emergence. Do I put it in a, uh, an emergence layer one of a fleeting thoughts to the something to a concrete? No! Why do I have to go through this arbitrary process when I can just go and do the bloody thing? Where I can just go and I just get my first ideas out, I send it as an email, the email is gone and, ooh, that's a point, I could explore this, I could talk about, like, The copy of our world, and how this assumption is And dive deeper into the assumptions that I used, with the quote that I used that I was just being a bit flippant with. Business owners like that simplicity. And then I can go deeper. And then I will go deeper.

And I just did! This is one of those things where the thinking process, and the natural thinking process, are clouded by the product sales, I think. When you look at what Nick Miley does. Because this is the person we're talking about. When you look at what he does, he, he works. He does what we're talking about. He has an idea, he follows the idea, he thinks it through, and then he does the thing. Whether he actually follows through on every single one of his steps, I don't know, but from what I've seen, he doesn't do all of that, because he shares his, um, his obsidian on publish. And it doesn't look like he goes through level 1, 2, 3 for emergence, it's He has an idea so he writes about it. Why do you need the rest of it? If there's something relevant, he then brings in the link. There's no complicated procedure, step by step instruction. No, it's just This interests me, I'm gonna write about it. Oh, this reminded me of this other thing. I'm gonna link this in here. Why do you need anything else? There's nothing else that's required to think or write, apart from writing. You don't need any other process, but you can't just mark it, Oh, right, just right, just do the thing, that's not going to sell. So you need to package it in some sort of framework or listicle or way to make it sound bigger than it is. I get that marketing, but now you're limiting or you're potentially limiting what it is that you're actually doing because you need to add constraints to add the marketing on it, which obviously isn't ideal

from Mike, because I've been thinking about this a lot because there's so many. So many ideas for things that I could create now. Um, and I'm like, how, how can I do it in a way that still, that still matches my experience? That isn't marketing. That isn't, I mean there will always be an essence of marketing. Marketing is a conversation, that's what it is. And it depends on who I'm having a conversation with. And it's, it's the context, is where I'm at at the moment. So I started, I was like, oh that's quite a nice idea, I need to kind of explore that. more. It's like what's, I'm focusing very much on what is the goal directed behavior. So if you want to, um, get more things done, take Tasktainer for Busy Brains, for example. If you want to do this, if this is your idea of what you want to achieve, you can go do that. And that marketing element That constraint helps people who, that's my, my guess, is that is a very ecological way of doing it. Because I was looking at one of my, um, one of the people that I follow, and I love how they market stuff. Like, their copywriting is all based around that. Whether they know is completely irrelevant, but it's like If you want to do this, do that. If this is for you, when? And it's all goal directed behaviours. And so my kind of marketing focus and how I am doing it is marketing through goal directed behaviours. The act of like, if you want to achieve this, go take this course. And it helps me, because obviously I've got a bunch of Notion templates. And it's like, if you want to use Notion for this, here you go. If you want to do that, here you go. And it's really helped me to move away from the, well I don't do, like, I'm just going to teach you my way of doing things, because actually my way of doing things is not actually that helpful, in many ways. It's the philosophy behind it. Yeah, and so it allows me to, it has allowed me to. Talk about more things and talk about my experiences of like this is this and and these conversations have helped Move me away from the traditional marketing the traditional approach of marketing where I have to create a system or create a thing And yes, I'm gonna still use words I was just thinking about like I could very easily call something Task emergence in that course and have a chat and I have a module dedicated to task emergence because that's what it is It is. How you do it, well you just

do it, sorry. Yep, when something comes to you you put it down. Yeah, but put it down somewhere. Where do I put it? Anywhere. As long as you know that it is there, then you're good.

It's interesting because one of the things, one of the replies I got, um, was, I'm gonna go put it down on paper because I just went straight with, here's a Google Doc, here's an ocean doc, because I do it. Online, because it's just easy to move things around. And then someone replied, I'm going to do it on paper. I'm like, you know what? That's a good point. You could do this on paper. You could do it anywhere. That's what I love! Because you can! Because you don't need an app to do it with. If you want an app, if your behaviour is, I want to use this app to do this, cool, there's that. There's this. Here's a course. Here's a programme. Here's an app for this. Yeah. Enjoy it. But otherwise, there you go. And that's kind of like My thinking on marketing, because yeah, at the day, I need to make money. That is, that is a fact of it, and there's nothing wrong with that. But is there a way of doing it without having to, I can't, I can't think of the right word. Just, just, overcomplicate it, and make it bigger than it actually is. Sensationalised. Yeah, so there, that's the word, yeah. Sensationalised, it's just like Because you're adding complexity to something that is already complex, which is counterproductive if you're actually helping people to achieve things.

I wouldn't say it's adding complexity. I would say it's reducing complexity by adding constraints. But by adding in a constraint, you're changing You're changing the relationship. So if someone is familiar with how to manage something with a certain level of complexity, and then you add constraints, well, now you're changing the complexity and typically you're going to reduce the complexity, but by reducing complexity, by adding constraints, you've now changed the relationship, which means. whatever they've developed, the skills that they've developed, may not be applicable, or may not be representative of how to achieve this new goal. So they could, maybe they, they could do the level one, two part of idea emergence, but they were struggling with three, four, but the one, two part didn't match. the one, two of the instructions. Well, now when they're doing the course, they need to relearn how to do steps one and two, because it's in a different environment, different relationship between the organism and the environment, the person in the environment, so the, because of the constraints. So now they have to relearn skills they've already developed, then learn three and four. Why can't they just learn three and four? Yeah. Maybe they're, maybe they could just learn three and four and put that on the end of one and two. But they would need to figure that out. There's no answers, of course, but No, of course not. I think that's, uh, that's good for today. What do you think, is there anything else to add? Not really! Nice! Nice and simple to close it out, then! And for those curious, yes, I am ill. Ha ha! I'll say that right at the end, yes, I am ill. Bye, everyone.