Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Here's today's episode.

Hi, everyone.

Welcome back to another episode of the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

And today we're talking about one of my favourite, favourite subjects, which is movement and bringing the somatic side to really help us distill the energy that we have, the often very restless energy that we have and that also helps settle our minds.

And I'm so excited to bring in Ella Jack of the she Moves Movement Community.

It's an amazing, amazing new initiative that a 23 year old, Ella is only 23, has set up.

A little bit of background about Ella.

She only got her diagnosis last year, but she was working in the ADHD space anyway.

And it was through her passion and her own mental health struggles that she realized how powerful movement was for adhd, for mental health, especially in women.

So, Ella, welcome to the podcast.

I'm really happy to have you here.

Thank you for having me.

Yeah, I mean, I connected with you because we sort of knew each other through some recording that I did.

You were doing something with regards to hiking, but you've realized that it evolved.

But the main message, the core message is about getting more neurodivergent women moving or more women and girls moving.

Is that right?

Am I explaining it correctly?

Yeah, that's spot on.

Yeah.

So it really is.

The focus is the getting out the house and how important movement is for your mental health.

Yeah.

So tell me a little bit about you.

That Ella, say five years ago, six years ago, where you.

I can only imagine as a teenager undiagnosed, what was going on for you.

It was a lot, I think.

I probably really didn't understand myself.

Probably felt quite lost in the world.

I would have just started my first proper job.

I always struggled in school and things like that.

So I think going into like the work life you do at that age, I did struggle with the structure, as I'm sure so many ADHD people will relate to how important the structure is, but how hard it is to actually keep to it.

This was before I got my ADHD diagnosis, before I had my OCD diagnosis.

So I was probably really lost with a lot of thoughts in my mind.

And was there any, I guess, at the time when you were going through all of this, did anyone mention neurodivergence, adhd, like at school?

Like, did anyone ever kind of like point you in the direction of getting extra support?

Not at all.

I.

My mum was always on the phone to the school about how I was misbehaving, not focusing, talking too much.

I was so close to the end of my GCSE and I was in a maths lesson and my teacher just said, no, you need to go in this other class.

And I was put in a class of about 10 and all of these were boys, the naughty boys that messed about and I was put in there, offered no real extra support and Left school with two GCSes, BMP and photography.

First of all, it's like heartbreaking to think of like a version, you know, I've got a daughter who is doing her GCSEs next year and got another daughter who's doing her A levels this year.

And like, I know what they're both diagnosed with, adhd and I know how hard it is, but if I didn't know all these struggles, like, I know what that impact is.

I don't know what the narrative is at school, in schools where I constantly having to say, have you checked their scent?

Like they've got a diagnosis or my daughter's dyslexic.

Are you able to give her the accommodations?

Like, I'm constantly there advocating because she's got the diagnosis.

But if you haven't got an advocate, you know, I'm not.

There's no criticism to your parents, but if there's, if there's no knowledge and understanding, then the school just presumes that you're just disruptive of a naughty and that's how you treated.

And then the criticisms and your self esteem and your self worth and I can't imagine, I mean.

And how did you feel when you did leave school with those qualifications?

What was the plan?

I didn't have one.

I remember my results day so clearly.

Me and my mum went in and I was hysterical.

I was so upset because I saw all these people that I would mess about with in class and be disruptive with, come out with all their GCSEs and I was there with what I felt like was nothing.

And I've.

Well, when you're 16 you feel like your life's over.

I was like, what do I even do at this point?

No one's here to point me in the right direction.

But when I went to college, it did get better.

Like I was offered that extra support.

I think within a week of me going to college they were like, have you ever been tested for dyslexia?

And I was like, no.

And straight away they were like giving me extra time overlays and got that sorted for me.

So school was hard, but then things did get better for me.

What did you study at college?

I did business level two, which is funny because I got an F in business at school.

Okay, so what is interesting, isn't it because you're at 23 now and you've set up a business or community based on sports and you will have needs photography skills to help market the business and you mostly need a business head or an understanding because you are now an entrepreneur.

And it's so interesting, isn't it, how even when we don't have the scaffolding, we don't have that support.

You had a bit of support.

Our inner resourcefulness always like kicks in.

And that's why we do see a lot of people with, you know, ADHD was setting up businesses on their own because the system, the external system doesn't work for us.

So we have to create a system through whatever means possible.

And it's very inspiring.

And I know that a lot of people that would be listening right now will probably either have experienced something similar or have got children that are going through something similar.

And it can feel really scary and hard because we think the world is difficult, the jobs out there are difficult to find right now.

But we also know that this type of thing is so needed.

Community, mental health, well being, understanding this through a female neurodivergent lens.

Tell me a little bit about what gave you the idea for setting up the.

The she moves.

I mean, I guess it starts with the girls that hike who hike and then it moves.

So tell us a little bit about the evolution of, of where this all began.

This used to be a story I was so I didn't not ashamed to tell, but I used to get a bit shy when I told it, but I love telling it now.

So I.

So was girls that hike.

At the start of last year, I'd been really struggling with my own mental health.

I'd not long received a diagnosis of ocd and I was like, I don't know what to do with myself.

Like, all these thoughts are in my mind, and I feel out of control.

I'd been going to therapy, and my amazing therapist, and just.

Oh, she's a true legend.

We sat and we were speaking about what brings me the most joy and when my head feels the most clear.

And I said, hiking.

Like, there was no hesitation.

I was like, when I'm out there, I'm not thinking about anything.

I'm out there.

I'm having the best time.

I go home, my mind is clear, and I feel when I come back, I always say, like, I can take on the world, like, my life's okay.

And she.

She said, oh, why don't you join a hiking group?

I know a hiking group you could join.

And I was like, oh, no, I don't want to.

And then I had the idea pretty much instantly to set up girls that hike.

But in true ADHD fashion, I had such a fear of rejection and that I'd do it and everyone would be laughing at me or no one would turn up, that I just sat for two weeks with it.

And I. I didn't even tell my mum or dad.

I didn't tell any of my friends.

And I was just so scared that it was gonna fail.

And then, I don't know, just one.

I think it was, like, one random Thursday.

I was like, I'm telling my friends that I went in the living room to my mum and dad.

I was like, I've got an idea.

And they're looking at me, like, the third idea of the month, trying to watch Kelly.

And I'm there like, guys, no, this one's good.

And, yeah, I just set up an Instagram page and it took off.

And I was like, oh, what?

What was there to be scared of?

Yeah, I love that.

I mean, the fact that you push through the fear, push through that.

Like that inner critic that tells us that we're gonna fail or if it's not perfect, or who are we to do this?

Or the fear of, like, judgment and comparison, like, because I know.

I've been there.

I know every single block there is, but you have to move past the blocks, don't you?

Like, everything is thrown at you.

It's just like, well, so and so is going to say this and what happens if this happens?

And the public humiliation, the inner humiliation, like, it's all there, but you moved through it and you took the action.

And that's incredible because so many people stopped when they have the idea.

They get all giddy.

We get the dopamine Hit.

It's super exciting.

And then something kicks in maybe an hour later, a day later, and we're like, who am I to do this?

This is embarrassing.

Absolutely not.

And we shut the idea down and we get to 45, 50, and we're still doing things that we don't enjoy.

So the fact that you, at your age has done this, it's so inspiring because so many, sadly, so many women don't do it because that fear blocks them.

So tell me a little bit about the beginning.

What happened so people know because it's so.

It's relatable because it's not an overnight success.

Nothing's ever overnight.

So what did the first few sessions look like?

Who was turning up?

What did it look like?

So at the start, to be fair, it was straight off the back.

It was a good turnout.

I was absolutely petrified.

I remember standing there, my mum was that, my work girls were there.

I was okay, but I was so scared.

And the public speaking part of things, that's something I'm still learning and I'm still growing on.

When I've got to introduce myself to the group and talk about what we're doing, where we're going, I get so choked up driving there, thinking I'm gonna have a panic attack.

Like, I get myself so worked up.

So that's something I'm.

I'm still working on now.

But the first couple of weeks, I remember the first one went really well.

We did a walk, there was probably like 20 odd people turned up and I was amazing.

I know I was absolutely blown away.

Then the following week, again, it was the same amount of number, but I got home and I just had a breakdown to my mum and dad and I was like sobbing to them because I was so worried about the fact that I'd not managed to speak to everyone.

I'd gone home and I was like.

But I didn't get to see if they were talking to someone and I didn't get to see if they enjoyed it.

And sort of my dad, he's.

He's the rational brain in our house.

And he said, like, they're not coming for you, Ella.

Like, they're coming to get out the house.

Like, people don't care if you don't speak to them.

Yeah.

I was like, oh, yeah, really?

Sometimes you need that pragmatic reason.

Yeah.

Because we're so in our heads and we do sometimes.

You know, ADHD does make us very, very sort of.

I don't want to use the word self centered about.

We just so in ourselves, that we think it is about us and that you.

And again, you've got RSD there and that RSD is prob.

Worrying about, first of all, upsetting anyone else and also not delivering.

We put so much pressure on ourselves.

The overwhelm, like, you've got adhd.

And doing something like this adds another layer of pressure because we're overthinking everything, every little tiny thing.

And it takes practice, practice, practice.

So every time you do one of these sessions or events, you have to introduce yourself and explain what's going on.

Do you feel a little bit more confident each time?

I don't think I do.

You know, I still stand there now.

If I'm stood there and there's a group of new people, I'm looking at, like, to my mum and to my friend Georgia, like, I'm gonna have to talk.

And my mom's like, come on, you can.

You can do it.

Like, you've done it so many times now.

Like, I've been on the radio, I've spoke on the radio.

How can I not speak in front of a group of girls who are here to support their mental health?

Like, it's just crazy.

I don't know what it is that gets me so choked up, but it's

because you're passionate about it.

I'm sure I'll get there.

But some.

I'll grow on you care.

And I think even sharing that, like, sharing your vulnerability and sharing that this is not your zone of comfort, really helps people connect to you as well.

Because sometimes if you're so, like, overconfident, and people kind of go, oh, my God, how does she do it?

Like, I'll never be able to do that.

But I think it's so important that we share our vulnerabilities, because no one finds things easy.

Like, it's all a mask.

Like Robbie Williams.

He still talks about having the worst stage fright ever, you know, and he goes on, he says, I'm a Persona on stage, but the inside of me is, like, crippled with, like, the worst anxiety ever.

And he's there jumping around the stage, being so charismatic, and he's, like, crippled with anxiety.

So just remember that everyone definitely feels like that.

Tell me.

So you obviously began with the hiking.

What was that?

Evolution.

That's where you were thinking, I think this needs to expand.

This needs to be a bit bigger.

I've been doing the weekly walks and then the monthly hikes each month.

And then as it was growing, cafes were contacting me locally saying, we'd love to have you, like, come in and we'll give you, like, discount on a drink and stuff if you bring the group.

And I was like, this is amazing.

I can't believe this is happening.

And then a lovely Pilates studio in Lincoln.

A lady Abby, who works there, she.

She contacted me and she was like, I'd love to have your group here.

Let's do a collab.

Ever since that first Pilates session, we've gone back every month.

And then as we were doing that, I was like, ooh, after every Pilates session, I need to do a walk because I'm the girls that hike.

Like, it all needs to be tied in and it needs to fit the theme.

So then it sort of got to.

It got to the end of the year, and I just thought, why don't I just change it?

I could just switch it up here and change it to she Moves.

Because there's so much more people.

I love asking people for suggestions.

I love hearing suggestions, because I think sometimes I have a creative brain, other times I don't.

And I like an outside opinion, like someone who's looking at it from a different lens.

So all the girls that come along, they were suggesting things, and I was like, but then I've got to tie this in.

So I just thought, I'll just change it.

The suggestions, people coming up with wild swimming and things like that, just stuff so different, but still moving together as a group.

I love it.

I love the idea that we can be flexible and we can be fluid and we can pivot and it's okay to change.

And again, it comes down to this, like, well, I've said I'm going to do this, and it has to be like this.

And then people are going to think this.

If I change or I'm flaky or I'm failing or I'm not committing.

And so much feeds into our old narratives of perhaps what we've heard from other people growing up, like, oh, there she is again, doing this, or she's changed her mind again, or, you know, all of that.

And I think it's so great that you are showing that it's okay to do something that you're thinking, and this has actually got potential to be more to serve in a greater way and gives you that opportunity again.

Like with adhd, we like novelty, we like new things.

We.

We like to have different opportunities.

And the fact that you can work with the different seasons as well.

Some people might want to do the swimming in the summer, and then you can do other things in the Winter.

And I think it's wonderful because you connect with community.

And I think right now so much of many people and maybe your age as well, we are desperate for in person contact now.

We're ready to step away from the screens and get away from the social media and actually meet like minded people.

Was that a part of your ethos with this, like getting to meet people in.

In person?

Yeah, definitely.

I think because when I'd gone through my bad spell with my mental health, I deleted all social media.

I was going Snapchat, TikTok, Instagram, I had none of it.

I miss that connection that you have when you're speaking to people because I think you realize then when you take how much is really online now.

So I think that was a big driving force behind it.

I think there's so many of us.

I've once a week it comes over me, I'm like, I want to chuck my phone away.

I don't want it anymore.

I don't want to do this anymore.

Like, I just, I want to go live in the woods.

Just craving that outdoors and the actual connection.

And I think it's such a big part of when people come along, they say, how do you make friends in your 20s and your 30s?

How do you even do that Any more is so hard.

So, yeah, it's nice to meet people that you wouldn't come across.

How else do you make friends in at this age?

It's hard.

Yeah.

Especially say you haven't gone to uni or you're not working in a big corporate job.

Like you say people move away, people go to live in London, like all these different things.

And we want to connect authentically.

I think for sure, neurodivergent people don't want these sort of superficial friendships.

We want friendships that we can like have real talk with.

And I always find that when you're out walking, like I've got certain friends who I walk, you know, the dog with.

And we always have such deep conversations and really get through all the sort of the stuff, whether it's kids or holidays or haircuts.

And we just kind of go straight into the deep stuff.

Because there's something about being outside in nature walking.

You don't have to make eye contact, you can be more vulnerable.

You can share and also say you're doing a really difficult hike.

You know, you can motivate and push people.

And we did a hike up Snowden last summer and we did it with some friends and that was like, we were like, come on, you can do it, we were pushing each other's bottoms up and, you know, women helping each other.

And I love it.

I'm the biggest, you know, I love women and I love anything to do with female communities.

Is the community specifically for neurodivergent women or is it just open to all women that want to move?

Just any.

Just anyone.

Yeah.

That's what, that's what's so lovely about it because there's no sort of.

You don't have to tick any boxes and you can just be part of it.

Tell me a little bit about what movement has done for you.

Because we talk about it so much in this, in, in our space, in, you know, adhd, women's well being about the biggest thing is moving your body every day, finding a way to move your body.

There's been books on it, there's evidence on it.

We know scientifically it can be almost as efficacious, I think is the word as medication for some people if they go for their daily run, their daily walk.

I know for me, if I don't move my body every day, my mood is, is much flatter and my cognition, my brain and working memory, like everything is boosted by moving my body every day.

What do you find for yourself that movement does for you and your mental health and I guess ADHD as well?

For me personally, it gives me routine.

Knowing that I'm going on a walk every week, it's that routine.

I know I'm going to get out of the house and now I'm going to have that fresh air and now I'm going to have that natural dopamine hit that doesn't come from a screen, that doesn't come from a vape or something like that.

It's something that's genuinely good for me.

And the same with the gym.

Like, I try and be regimented with the gym.

I go to gym classes, like, keeps me in, it pulls me into that routine because I think that's something I've always struggled with is like routine and especially in a morning.

But when I'm in that routine, the morning routine comes, but when I'm out of it, it's just not there.

But yeah, it's the structure, isn't it?

It's like when we can have that structure.

Yeah, the structure kind of forms itself and then when we, when it's not there, like sometimes if you go on holiday or whatever, the gym's closed or the class is canceled, it can feel really hard because it's like, oh my goodness.

But to have, you know, at your age, 23, to have a routine and a structure and the awareness.

Like I look back at myself at 23 and I can't think that I went on a daily walk.

I remember my daily walk started because I had my first kid at 25 and he didn't sleep and well, he's, he's now, he's now got adhd.

So now I understand he was, he was just awake the whole time.

And I knew that the only way for me to get him to sleep was to walk.

Walk him in the buggy, walk him in the, in the papoose thing.

And I walked every day.

And I found that when I was feel like hormones, everything, I just knew if I didn't get that walk.

And I've been walking ever since.

And he's now 20.

So for 25 years, probably without fail, I have walked because I've known that's good for my mental health.

And sometimes, like, you know, if I go on holiday and I can't walk or there's something going on or one of my kids is ill and I can't get out, I really, really notice.

So the fact that you're creating a community that creates like an incubation space, like a, A structure for people who may not necessarily have the dog, the baby, the.

The, the friends that want to walk, it's a lifeline.

It's, it's a, it's a real lifeline.

And you know, I live near a mental health facility, a private mental health facility, and we live near a beautiful woods in a river.

Really lucky.

We live quite rurally and it's where I walk my dog.

But I've noticed more and more they are taking the patients on daily walks.

They know how much it helps their mental health and helps their recovery.

So this is not going anywhere.

It's just going to get bigger and bigger and I really hope that things just progress with you and things evolve.

If you could wave a magic wand and sprinkle some magic fairy dust on this.

What do you see?

Where do you see this growing?

I don't know.

This is one of my things this year is not essentially make a business plan, but like the money side of it's not monetarize.

Everything we do is free.

Unless it's Pilates session, then it's at the Pilates studio.

Cost.

I don't make any money.

It's essentially a hobby for me.

I do it around my work.

I do it on my free time.

And I just, I just love it to grow and I'd love To make some merch.

But that's the only things that are sort of in.

In my mind.

I just love giving people the space to talk.

I think I've got so open with talking about my mental health and I think it brings the barrier down for someone else being able to connect and relate.

Like, oh, I literally feel the same way of my anxiety sort of thing, and it breaks down the barrier.

I just.

I'd love for it to grow and just reach more people.

Yeah, I think, listen, everyone has got to do their thing.

And I have a bit of a bad habit of trying to monetize people's hobbies.

I'm like, oh, I can see a business in this, but I can see that this be a way that you could franchise it and people could start doing this in different cities.

But you've also seen, like, the power of Parkrun, things like that.

You know what Parkrun has done and that's gone to hundreds of different cities.

And I'm sure it's monetized in a way with sponsorship and everything.

But initially he started it, the guy, I've forgotten his name, as a community initiative, similar to what you're doing to help people, to get people moving, you know, get people out at the weekends with their families, with their kids and connect.

And I always think when you start with.

You start an idea from that place of just wanting to serve and to give and not to want to monetize you, creating deep, deep roots and deep foundations because you've got the value.

The values are there.

And I think that's what's lovely about this, that you can have this opportunity to just play with it.

No, I am so open to it.

I'd love a brand deal.

I'd love, like, a brand to contact me.

Like, let's do a brand deal.

I think that would be so cool.

Yeah.

But they're just like little things that I want to grow and think of it in a cool way.

Yeah, I'm quite easy with it.

I feel like I may be a bit too laid back with pushing it, but I'll get there.

Yeah.

Tell me a little bit about what you do as a job, because I thought that this might have been your job, but you're still telling me a little bit about your working life and how this merges.

Well, sometimes I struggle with the balance.

I'm in a bit of a nightmare with this.

She moves community, like, trying to find the balance of work she moves and my free time, it's all something I'm still learning and building on.

But day to day, I work a 9, 5, I'm in an office job in the private ADHD industry.

So it's quite nice because I speak to patients a lot of the time and you can relate to them as a neurodivergent person yourself and it's nice to have that.

But no, you don't understand what I'm saying.

And I'm there, like, I really do.

Like, I really feel what you're saying, like, and I am empathize, empathize with you because I feel it, I feel it in my heart, like I know exactly how you feel.

So it's nice, it's a feel good job a lot of the time.

Yeah.

And I think what you're, you know, what you're doing is amazing, is there's a crossover, there's 100% a crossover because it's almost like what you're doing right now is understanding the people and understanding your potential clientele of people who would want to be part of the she Moves movement.

And with us, I'm going to say, you know, collectively, ADHD women, we operate off passion and interest and values driven and purpose.

And so what you said about monetizing sometimes, often that doesn't drive us.

Whereas a lot of other people are driven by what's the profit going to be like, what's the next five years, what's the goals, all of that.

And for many of us it's like, well, why do we not work like that?

We just want to do the thing that we really enjoy and just see where it goes.

I was very much like that when I started ADHD women's well being.

Like, it just started from a little seed idea of and I didn't even know where it was going to go or anything.

And I still not quite sure where it's going to go.

Like I'm going into live events and things like that.

Where I was thinking I would never do live events two years ago, that would never have been a thing for me.

So I think when we are driven by things that matter to us, the path lays out to us, but we also need the things that we struggle with or where we need that self confidence, that self boost.

It's so good to reach out and ask for support or like you say, asking your community what they want as well, what are your community saying?

What are they asking for?

What do they enjoy?

I think they want the weekly walks to stay, I think for locally the girls in Lincoln, like it is almost a bit of a lifeline.

I know it is for myself, I know at least once a week I'm going to be out there getting some fresh air.

And I know there's one of the girls, she's come from the first week on her own and she still comes every week now she's there without fail.

So they want that to stay.

They love the monthly hikes.

I think they are my staple bits for she moves community.

But honestly, some of the ideas, I would have never thought of that.

Like the wild swimming that I touched on earlier and going to do paddle and you've got like ninja warrior and stuff.

You can do all those things.

It's still play zone, like adults night, like doing things like that.

And I do, I want to do more sit down things as well.

Like let's go pottery painting or something like that.

Where it's nice to sit down and sort of focus.

I suppose it might not fit in with the movement side of things, but it's the sense of community that I'm really wanting to sort of drill in on.

Yeah, absolutely.

I always say with like business growth and anything that the little serendipitous moments where you kind of encouraged on, you're like motivated.

So you've had that interest from the Pilates studio, you've had the interest from the cafes.

The people have been turning up.

It's kind of like your little universal nod that you're going in the right direction and to keep going.

And sometimes when we are pursuing something that is just not right for us, we'll get things like doors shutting in our face or things breaking down or people leaving.

And it's like the universe trying to kind of reroute us a little bit.

And I always try and notice.

I kind of think, oh, that's not working out the way I wanted.

What's that?

Do I need to change?

Do I need to pivot?

But when things sort of like the path kind of just goes quite smoothly, I always think that's the nod in the right direction as well.

So just follow these little universal signs as well.

Yeah, I need to make sure I look out for them.

Look out for them.

Such a. Yeah, I'm such a.

That's definitely a sign all the time.

So I'll keep a bigger eye.

I think it's fun.

I find it fun because it gives you that little kind of like nod that maybe someone else might not even notice.

But if you, you know, just the fact that you've had this openness and this receptivity and you're on this podcast now and I can only imagine there's going to be lovely feedback from it.

And just using it as like is language.

Language to motivate you and keep going.

And also remember that what you did before, where you pivoted and you changed route a little bit, we often feel it in our bodies, don't we?

Like, we feel if something's off, you know, if you commit to doing something and you just think, I'm only doing that because I think I should, but you notice that feeling in your body and you think, I don't want to do that again.

You know what feels right?

Yeah.

Like the obligations.

If there's a shoulder, an obligation, as opposed to.

Oh, that sounds really fun.

And I'm not sure where that's going to lead to, but sod it, let's just give it a go.

I always think follow those little nudges as well.

Will do.

So, thank you so much for joining us, Ella.

Where can people find you?

What's the best place to get in touch with you?

If they do want to join, she

moves either on Instagram or TikTok.

They're both shemoose community and there's a WhatsApp group as well that you can join.

There's all different regions for girls across England to join and they can talk in the group, chats between each other and arrange walks if they're not local, to Lincoln.

That's brilliant.

Well, I will make sure that's all in the show notes.

Thank you so much, Ella.

It's been amazing chatting.

Thank you so much for having me.

If this episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for more tools and more guidance, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's well Being Toolkit, is out now.

You can find it wherever you buy your books from.

You can also check out the audiobook if you do prefer to listen to me.

I have narrated it all myself.

Thank you so much for being here and I will see you for the next episode.