Welcome to Gun Owners of America State of the Second podcast.

I'm Kaylee.

And I'm John.

And today we're joined by the men themselves, the creators of the Gundys, Ben and Will from Forge Relations.

How are you guys doing?

Well.

Yeah, thanks for.

Thanks for letting us be here.

Well, I appreciate you guys letting us borrow your studio.

I mean, it's our honor, sir.

First time we've seen you today at 4.

At 4 o'clock.

Yeah, you save us for last.

So we know how it is.

It's okay.

I mean, I've only been asking for months, Ben.

Well, I mean, to be fair, we did film this once, right?

Yes, I did, but boss lady had a really good reason to redo it, so we're here.

Yeah, well, it's, it's super exciting because the Gundys are right around the corner.

We're in the midst of the voting process for people and so you guys have some incredible sponsors lined up for this year.

Last year the Gundies was incredible.

It was quite the experience.

Even if we did have to get dressed up in all fancy light.

Was that the best part though?

Yeah, wasn't that fun?

If we're in the middle of voting, hey, vote for State of the second for best Podcast of the Year.

Nice.

We don't even know if we're nominated.

I'm nominating this right now.

I have a feeling you guys are.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're.

That's a safe bet.

That's a safe bet.

You gotta always plug.

Even if we're not.

Hey, vote for us.

Anyway, they're just really confused when they get there, we're nowhere to be found.

Where do we go for voting?

Where was that?

That is@gundy's.com.

The Gundy's.

TheGundy's.

Close enough.

Yeah, yeah, we'll figure it out.

I mean, Google Gundy's, it's the first thing that pops up.

It's actually not.

The first thing is a trash company.

There's a trash.

It's a dumpster company called Gundy's.

Yeah, actually I think we've.

We've beat them in SEO.

I think we got it.

But for the first couple of years it was.

If you looked up Gundy's, it was a trash company in like Minnesota or something.

But anyway, we got him.

To answer your question of wasn't that the best part, I assume it would have been had I not been in the basement of shot show setting up our booth and missed the alarm to go get ready and Getting a phone call and they're like, hey, where are you?

Where are you at?

Talking about like we were meeting up as a team before we went to the Gundy's.

And I was like, I'm still at the booth.

Like we just got our crate delivered.

And they're like, we're on our way to dinner, everyone's ready.

And I had to sprint to the link, get completely ready in a whole four length gown, hair done, makeup done in like, I think it was like 26 minutes from the time that I like got to my room to the time I exited my room.

So it would have been nice to have had a buffer.

I'm still really impressed.

That's really quick.

I mean it took Ben 40 minutes but it's tie on so I'm really.

Really clip on tie too.

It was pretty rough.

It was a lot of fun, but slightly stressful.

You made it, you know, you were there for your speech.

I mean listen, it was perfect, right?

Your presentation was great.

Presentation was amazing.

Yeah.

You were on stage.

Yes, yes.

And you gave this beautiful speech.

And I stand behind every word.

And I'm very happy for last year's winner of most influential female Liberty doll.

Yeah.

Who has been on the show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wasn't it cool?

Wasn't it really cool to be in a theater like that?

Yeah.

Like seeing the Gundies from looking at it on stage at the theater to going back five years ago then and remember staring on a.

Standing on a staircase with a little, you know like ten dollar microphone and a little jukebox that you'd rent for a child's party.

And that was our sound system.

To talking to everyone in a crowded restaurant and saying, hello, can you hear me?

And I was like, no, we can't hear you.

Okay, we're going to keep going.

And to now having a professional sound stage and professional audio videos.

It was such a cool thing to see the evolution of the Gundies come from our little plastic trophies to these handmade things that take so long to make and so much time.

But they're made with love, you know, and care, dedication.

So you know, it's cool.

I'm really happy that you guys were part of it to really see that change.

Yeah, it's been awesome.

I mean GOA has been nominated or a sponsor of the Gundies.

I think this is going on year five for us of being like an official, official part of it.

And so it's exciting for us because you know, we're a grassroots organization so we're always focused on the individual and so giving the ability to have people vote and just bring the community together.

And, you know, we haven't won a gundy yet, but fingers crossed, this year, he is desperate to win.

I just want to hold the trophy that's got our name on it.

Not somebody else's trophy that I was playing with earlier.

I mean, your audience is loyal.

When they come up to you in the hotel and the bag boy says, high and like, they.

They know they're.

They're out there.

Yeah.

How was that experience?

Thank you.

To.

To random valet driver number one.

It was very confusing because I didn't know.

This is going to sound so awful.

I didn't know.

We were on TikTok, and he was like, oh, you're that gun girl from TikTok.

And I was like, I'm not on TikTok.

And then he showed me my face on TikTok, and I was like, oh.

Yeah, I'm on TikTok.

I'm on TikTok.

I still haven't been recognized as all right.

I'm just not salty at all.

No.

Like I said, folks, he's desperate to.

Win just a little.

I just want, like, some recognition.

Like, hey, you're that guy.

They know.

They know.

We were.

We were nominated our first year.

We were.

So, I mean, somebody likes us.

Yeah, they keep listening every week.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We have friends who.

I think my wife nominated us, like.

12 times, so I can confirm that.

Okay.

And your.

And your dog.

And your dog.

And my dog.

Yeah.

Ironically.

Wow.

That'S amazing.

Yeah.

I can almost guarantee you my husband did not nominate this.

Well, it's funny, because I was supposed to go on stage with you, and then I called my wife.

I'm like, yeah, I'm not going on stage.

And she texted me, kaylee looks beautiful tonight.

I'm great.

I'm like, yeah, at least you're watching.

It's amazing.

Yeah, well, it.

It was really exciting because, you know, we have two females on our media team at Goa, and so, you know, we got to present for the most influential female.

And I thought that was.

That was cool because, you know, we're not on the.

The Goa YouTube channel with the other shows.

You know, we're podcasts.

We're a little different.

And so anytime that we can kind of come together as a Goa team, it was kind of cool.

Yeah.

Also, subscribe to the Geo, the state of the second YouTube channel.

State of the second.

Plugging away.

You are on a roll.

I like it.

I like promotion.

Yeah, that's amazing.

So, I mean, you guys have seen it change quite a bit, right?

Like, what did you think of it when I was at drive tanks?

Because you were there.

You know, the evolution of that.

And listen.

Yeah.

I got to pet a kangaroo.

Like, where else can you pet a kangaroo?

There was a giraffe and drive.

Drive a tank while doing it.

You know, I didn't know.

Not only was.

Did I not know petting a kangaroo was on the bucket list, but petting a rhino was also on the bucket list.

And that was a thing.

Baby.

Baby rhinos back then.

Yeah.

Oh, no, they were.

The one I pet was big.

They're big, but they're both babies.

Are they babies on your bucket list?

A baby or a full grown.

Whatever it was, it was like petting an up.

Armored cow.

That's the best way to describe it, though.

Yeah.

Well said.

Well, with a battering ramp.

Yeah.

Yeah, I like that.

It's like.

It's like.

But they're like.

A cow is like a truck.

Like a rhino's.

Like a bearcat.

It's just an up armored truck.

It's a very good comparison.

But like, they're like little teddy bears, though.

You know, they're very.

They're very gentle.

They're very gentle.

Unless you piss them off.

Account for a lot of deaths in.

Africa I wasn't planning on.

Those are hippos.

No, rhinos.

And rhinos.

Well, when the girl hopped over the fence and I was like, what.

What are you doing?

She's like, I'm bringing the rhino over.

I'm like, but what are you doing?

That's a rhino.

And then she's like, okay, Patty.

I'm like, oh, this is a nice rhino.

It's like a weird, soft thing.

I'm like, wow, I didn't realize they were that soft.

Where's this going?

I don't know.

But then you can jump on a tank, right?

Shoot an RPG and.

Such a crazy.

Such a crazy spot.

Like, to have everybody come together in this one little, like, magical land.

You got to shoot an rpg.

Yes.

I didn't get to shoot an rpg.

Well, watch an rpg.

Yeah, but you don't want to shoot.

You know, it's like they fail.

Like, one out.

Yeah.

Something.

Thank you for taking the risk for all of us.

Hold on.

I didn't know that until after I shot it.

They're like, oh, by the way, it's one in four failure.

And then Jerry shot it next.

I'm like, okay.

So we just went.

So we're.

We're done.

We're done for the day.

We got lucky.

Yeah.

I mean, we got the shit of flamethrower.

That was fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The range day was great at the Gundy's because it was small and intimate and we all just kind of got to hang out and do what we love, which we get to go to a lot of range days.

But very, very often you're.

You're so spread out that you really don't get to talk to everybody.

And so it was, it was a fun time.

But I like the evolution because it seems like every other segment of the population has their own award shows.

And the Second amendment is not something that they want to include.

Acknowledge or even the thought of a gun tuber potentially getting nominated for something would probably send some anti gunner into mass hysteria.

And here you guys have built a lasting award show and now it's at the same caliber as what you would see from not just in the content creator space, but like you could even compare it to like a Tony or an Emmy as far as, like production value.

And I think that's really a cool gift that you give into the industry.

Well, first off, thank you.

Yeah, that means.

That means the world definitely didn't start that way.

As Will alluded to, it's been a journey.

The industry had to catch up.

Just like with what we do on the marketing side of things, we're always a couple years behind as an industry.

Right.

I think it was the same with the awards where we had to convince people it was legitimate.

We had to convince people that it was worth the time to get involved.

And over the years, that evolution went from a little restaurant in Vegas to the range day, to adding the Expo day, to adding multiple components, bringing it back to Vegas to what you guys saw last year, which we're going to expand on this year.

For me personally, last year was the first time where it felt like a true award show, like something you could watch on tv.

That was.

It was.

Everyone was dressed up black tie.

Right.

It was an award show.

And that the industry also, from my perspective, has jumped on fully to support the mission and the goal.

And the goal is to provide something for the community, by the community.

We're just the purveyors of this project.

And it takes a lot.

It takes many hands and many dollars to make it happen.

So we're very grateful for all of our sponsors that may.

Because, I mean, honestly, without the sponsors, this would.

It would be impossible.

And that's why we always wanted to make the Gundy's not for one Individual group.

The Gundy's is not about forge relations, it's not about one particular sponsor.

It's about everyone coming together and making this thing, you know, really happen.

And that's it's funny because when it really started it wasn't a word show.

That's really what we wanted to do in year one.

But then year two Covid came around and we had to evolve and that's where the whole range day drive tanks came around and expo because we knew at that point in time it wasn't strong enough to stand on its own as just an award show.

And we didn't have the facility or the location to know to get people to travel across the country for one night in year two.

So we had to add some other stages of this to draw the attention of everyone and have some sort of extra entertainment.

And now looking at it, year five last year it's like wow, back to what we really wanted it to be because we never wanted it to be arrange day.

I mean listen, don't be wrong, that was awesome, it was amazing, it's a great time but it wasn't designed to ever really be that.

So now it's actually at the point to where it's, it is what it is and now it's a true award show.

It's really, really special and it's, you know, really fortunate as Ben said, all the sponsors really excited to just have PSA as our title sponsor.

So really excited about that.

Great partnerships.

Most of the sponsors, like you said, they've been with us for a long time.

You guys have been with the event for a very long time.

We've built those relationships from a personal standpoint and doing business year round just helping each other out and it's really nice to see that continued support throughout the years.

So speaking of sponsors, how does one become a sponsor of the Gundy?

So you can head over to thegundies.com check out the website, there's a very specific tab that says sponsors and that'll give you all the information for the deck.

And if it's not for 2025 obviously we're going to be doing 2026 so you guys can check that out and get some more information.

And even if you know you're not sure about the Gundies, you're not familiar with it at that point.

The website will give you everything you need to know.

It'll show you all the past winners, it'll show you kind of the past events that we've done and it lays it out really Good.

So I'm sure by the time of spending 20 minutes on the site, you'll have a really good understanding.

And one thing, if you guys don't know from the website, and I know you guys know, but the Gundys truly started from my favorite TV show and that is the Office.

And of course Michael Scott created something called the Dundees.

So in its simplest form, the Gundy's was always meant to just be fun.

It was always meant to be the same, you know, layout as the Dundees, where the Dundees just his way of getting his office together.

Everyone's so very different.

And he came up with these nonsensical awards that really didn't mean much.

But when you looked at the episodes, it brought everybody in the Office together.

So at that same principle, that's what we wanted to do.

In the firearms industry, there's so many different genres and so many different aspects of our community.

Clicks to where clicks.

Yeah, like people kind of like butt heads.

You know, I'm a three gun shooter, I'm a tactical shooter.

I'm this.

And you're doing this wrong.

You're doing this wrong.

Everyone kind of internally attacks a little bit.

So this is a way to like everybody put down their guard.

Let's just have fun.

Like most likely survive the apocalypse, right?

What an amazing category.

And last year, you know, we're very honored who won that category.

And you know, Best shooter for example.

Best shooter is so open ended.

Everyone's like, what kind of shooter, what type of shooter?

Trick shooter, Competition shooter.

It's like, no, just best shooter.

It can be anybody.

And that's what's really cool about is bringing everyone in the industry together and just kind of letting your guard down and having fun.

So that, that was, that was the start of the whole event.

And it evolved over the years to a point where those categories got more serious.

We still have the fun ones like we like Most Likely to Survive the Apocalypse.

Right.

This year we ended up adding four new categories, which is a big jump.

For four years we've had 15 categories.

We started with 10, year one and then moving into year six, we've added top two way writer, we've added Podcast of the Year, King of the Hill and Emerging Brand of the year.

Yeah, we want to add another brand category because typically we've only had one category for brands.

And you know, obviously brands are a massive part of this entire event.

So we want to add at least one more for brands because they're really doing so much for our industry.

So yeah, that Was a big one.

And why don't you elaborate on the King of the Hill?

Because that's going to say is that like propane and propane accessories.

King of the Hill.

King the.

I'll back up a little bit.

The evolution of the categories is always driven by the voters, by feedback from you guys.

We've had a bunch of personal conversations about it by conversations with other, other individuals.

King of the Hill was an evolution of that.

Top two A writer came from that.

All the new categories were were added for a reason.

The King of the Hill category specifically is for those that are at the top of their game.

They have the largest followings, they've won multiple times over the years.

It's a chance for us to put them head to head in one category where they can fight for King of the Hill.

And then we have top two a writer which is our homage to the original content creators.

Right.

So the Gundies was built around this concept of content creators, people online personalities, influencers if you dare call them that these days.

However, well before Instagram came around we had people writing blogs, we had people creating content for whether it be Reddit or any of the physical or digital magazines.

And it was time that we gave them the attention they deserve.

Now it's an interesting evolution of the Undies because we created this concept to highlight these creators that previously six years ago were often ignored by the mainstream.

But now the Gundy says reached a point to where it needs to be a spotlight of the entire community.

What the all encompassing different levels of the community.

That's why we want to try to spotlight the creators and the brands and now the now those writers that make a difference.

Think about how many people wrote Gun Digest.

I mean Gun Digest has been around for what over 100 years I believe.

So it's like what's you know there's massive staple in our industry and how many people are have been, you know, have their names in that magazine writing pieces and there's just so many cool new pop up magazines that have come around recently, past five, six years and they're a big, big piece to this, you know, to our awards.

We actually looked at doing something like traditional.

We were talking to Jim Schockey and his manager and he came up with some good ideas about maybe doing something like you know, TV show like you know it's on Netflix or it's on Outdoor Channel.

So that could be a potential ad for 2026, kind of rounding up all those folks.

What was it like last year?

And I know we're diving off a little bit.

But Paul Harrell, rest in peace, the.

One of the OGs of YouTube, won an award for the first time last year.

What was it like for you guys to say his name?

Because he has been.

He's been a staple.

Yeah, that was.

That was.

I just got shivers that.

That was a special moment.

So.

So he.

At that time when the ceremony was happening, he had already been diagnosed and he had announced and we had some conversations with him leading up to the awards, letting him know that he was part of the awards.

And he was very surprised.

He's such a humble human.

He was very surprised.

I don't know how much he knew about the whole concept because he's doing his thing, which is great.

So he explained it and then he ended up winning.

And we.

We made it a.

A very pointed goal to get him a trophy as quickly as possible.

The.

The trophies take quite a bit of time to make, and we.

We ended up getting him his maybe in April.

April or so.

So that.

That was a special moment.

He ended up.

That's fine.

I forgot about this.

He filmed a video to accept his award that we were going to show at the ceremony.

The video got corrupted along the way somehow.

Something didn't.

Didn't happen where it didn't work out.

Right.

And he.

He emailed us apologizing, saying, hey, I'm sorry, I would refilm it, but I'm just.

My health is not there.

Like, I just can't do it.

And that was like.

That was, you know, looking back now at the.

At the moment, it's like.

It was a bummer, but also completely understandable.

But, like, looking back, it's just like a very powerful moment.

But then he responded to the fact that he got his award, which made us so happy.

And now with his passing and the now very famous I'm dead video, it all just hits home because he is the grandfather of this space, of what we do.

He is one of the people that started this whole concept.

So for the awards, we'll be doing something for him in Vegas.

We'll be doing something.

Well, I'll just leave it there for now.

That.

That was an amazing moment from.

From being in the crowd, seeing the reaction of everybody.

Everybody was excited to see Paul win.

Yeah.

And, yeah, even in his passing, he gave us one last real good video.

Yeah, he did.

That video went super viral.

And Clinton had some great words to say about him too.

I think all of us looked up to him.

You know, he was, for some of us, the grandfather we Never had to a certain degree.

Right.

He was like a crazy uncle that he had that you would listen to.

But he, you know, as much as I, you know, you look back at his videos and I remember when I first found Paul, it was like, who is this guy?

Right.

He's kind of like a little crazy.

A little crazy, a little weird.

But then the more you listen to him and the more you.

He's like, oh, yeah, okay.

He's making sense.

Oh, his things are very, like very down to earth.

Very explainable.

It's very sad that he passed.

So I think every guy who watched that video has a tear.

Yeah, yeah.

Come down.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

It means a lot to us.

So it's.

Yeah, I definitely want to do something.

We are doing something.

And it kind of brings it back to like, you know, we started with Jerry Mitchellak.

We had the Jerry Mitchellak award.

We, you know, it's, it goes a little beyond just some voting, just some categories.

We want to make it really embed it deep with the community and do something a little special and beyond.

Last year we did.

Well, no, that wasn't last year.

Yes, it was last year.

It was the John Level.

John Lovell.

Yes.

That will continue.

The.

Yep.

The Philanthropic Philanthropist Award.

That will continue.

Yeah.

I mean, to Will's point, the, you know, the Gundy's is by all means just a chance for the community to vote for their favorite creators.

It's a little bit of a popularity contest.

We're not naive to that.

You know, there's a, there's a smidge of that because the bigger you are, the better your chances.

But at the end of the day, our goal is to bring the community together to spotlight those up and comers and those at the top that deserve attention when they're being ignored by the rest of the platforms out there.

And that's something to touch on what he just said.

When you talk about like popularity contest or something like that, someone that comes in with a million followers, you know, of course they're going to get a lot of votes.

But one thing that's really cool that happens is when you go to the, the category and you see those 20, 30 people, 40 people that are nominated in that category and you're going there for Tom, right, Because you.

He has a million followers.

But what's happening is you're also now looking at, when you find Tom in that category, you're like, oh, well, there's Mike, there's Joe, there's Cheryl, there's whatever, you know, I didn't know they were around.

I didn't know who this person was.

So now their audience is getting to see a whole new group of audiences or sorry, creators that they've never saw before because social media is doing its thing and completely blocking most, you know, people.

I'm not going to say shadow banning because that's, we're not going to talk that.

But it's giving a great opportunity to showcase creators that are smaller and giving them an opportunity for those larger creators to get the show.

Everyone else that's out there because there's such a wide range of creators in the Gundy.

That's why it's not just for everyone.

Right.

Hunting, space, fishing space outdoors.

So it really opens up, you know, the creators that are involved in our industry.

So that's a really cool thing.

Yeah, I think that's fantastic.

I mean last year, looking through who did I find?

There was some guy who spoke only Spanish.

Yeah.

Remember?

Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.

But he has a couple million followers and.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is awesome because that's once again to Will's point, that's the entire goal is we want to expand this community and the majority of people that consume gun related content are not living and breathing it every day like we do.

Right.

They have a couple rifles, maybe they have a pistol or two, they go out when, when they can.

Whether that be if you're lucky, every week, every weekend, or, or maybe it's every three months.

Right.

But the, the people that are out there putting in this work, creating content are the ones that are doing what they can to bring, bring this community together and to expand this community.

And we, we just want to be, we want to spotlight that.

So one of the things that I think was really cool about last year's Gundies is the live stream where people who may not be a part of our industry but were very active in the voting process actually got to see everything as it was happening.

That has to be a little bit of a hold your breath moment from you're all standpoint.

I know only because I was part of the team for our convention goals and we had livestream all of the sessions for that.

And there's like this.

Even if you know that you're rehearsed and you're ready to go and everybody's got their marching orders, there's a little bit of a holding your breath until the camera shuts off and you're like, okay, we made it.

Yep.

With it being the first time that we were all dressed up.

Like, what was it like for you all to like, not only be doing the whole new iteration of the Gundies, but also bringing it to a whole new audience live.

And in that moment, good.

And to add to it, working with a new team at the Venetian, which the production team at the Venetian theater was incredible, bar none.

They're, they're top notch.

And I think that's why we had the success we did that.

I just want to throw that out there.

The pressure that that puts on the table is a completely different beast.

You know, there's a, there's an open.

We.

Every year there's an open bar at Gundy's.

And every year everyone is hammered.

And every year I am as sober as can be because I'm, I'm the one doing the run of show.

So I, you know, I got to be at the, at the top of my game to try to make sure everything goes smoothly.

The, you know, the, it's all in the prep.

It's on the prep.

There's always going to be things outside of your control.

Someone's going to walk away with the trophy.

Someone's not going to make it up on stage in time, you know, but you have to have a plan for all of those having the ability to have the general public watch, which this year we're also selling tickets.

There's a, there's some left or those, those are going pretty quickly if you're interested, if you want to be there.

But we will be live streaming it again.

And once again, that's what, that's what it's all about.

Like, the whole point of this is for the community to be able to see what's going on, right.

And to feel like they're actively a part of this.

So it's, it's the most stressful component of the show for me, but it's also the most rewarding.

The most rewarding.

And it's what they deserve, right?

The audience and people are doing that.

They deserve that because they're part of the nominations.

You know, you look, nominations are going right on right now in October, and then December comes the voting.

So they're part of the entire process from the beginning to the end.

So how could we leave, you know, the most important piece out, which is the actual experience of the event, because that's, that's at the end of day, who's getting a trophy and who's getting a Gandhi is based on all of those voters coming together and deciding who they, you know, who should win.

So to experience that and Watch them get on stage and watch them grab that trophy and, you know, talk about thank you and, you know, all that good stuff.

That's.

That's huge.

So they absolutely deserve that piece of it.

Which, yes, it is stressful, but it's okay.

You know, it's part of it.

I mean, stressful is you were talking about people walking away with the trophy.

I'm going to call Mike.

You got to read the category first before you announce the winner.

Buddy, this time it's, love you, buddy.

Listen, when you're.

When you're up on stage, in front of, In.

In an environment like that, in front of the crowd that we have, I don't care who you are, like, it's.

It's going to make you pop.

I think the only person that was absolutely comfortable up there was Adam Schur, because he gets in crowds of.

In front of crowds of 100,000.

So it's a.

He was having a blast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How nerve wracking was it?

Terrifying, actually.

So we were told the winner right before we announced the winner because Liberty Doll wasn't able to make it.

And so you have, like this game plan of a speech, and then you're like, oh, I've got to throw it to a video now.

Okay, how are we going to do that?

Let's wing it.

Sure.

There's.

There's nobody watching.

It's not being live streamed.

There's not an audience full of people.

It's great.

So the whole time I was like, okay, just, it'll be fine, It'll be fine, It'll be fine.

We get there.

And then what broke, like, for the comedic relief, which is, I think is the only reason we made it through the little speech was Clint's shoe was untied.

And I was like, at least I won't be the one that falls.

Like, I need to tell him that his shoe is untied as we're walking back.

Because.

But I was like, I don't know.

It just broke my attention for just a second, and then I, like, remembered to breathe and then we were fine.

But, yeah, I was terrified of throwing it to a video.

And I don't know why that just that one change of like, oh, it.

She's not here.

Just.

I don't know, it just messed me up.

And so it was.

It was great that his shoe was untied because it, like, brought me back to, it's okay.

We're gonna make it.

And it's crazy because, like, you know, when you're standing there and looking at that theater.

That's a real theater.

Like, there have been very, very famous people standing right where we all were.

I mean, I think Joe Rogan even played there.

I know a lot of comedians, singers.

I was there two months ago and the Beach Boys were there.

And I'm like, the Beach Boys.

And I'm down in the green room looking around and there they are in the corner.

I'm like, yeah, the Beach Boys.

Okay.

So, I mean, the point is they have some real, you know, acts.

And, you know, last year was cool for me because I did not have to host the whole thing.

So that was a bittersweet moment, I guess you could say.

I always enjoyed playing Michael Scott.

That's how I always envisioned it.

Every single year.

You do it very well.

So I had a gracious.

You know, I'm very.

Clint's amazing.

I'm very.

I'm very honored.

I'm definitely still going to get on stage and do something because I can't just totally let it go.

But to see that evolution, to drive tanks and the tank barn to the staircase of Nacho Daddy and just seeing and having different co hosts.

I mean, I've had.

Brandon Herrera was a co host, Theo was a co host.

But she started, she started the whole thing with us.

She did that twice, Ava.

And just having those interactions with different people on stage and, you know, we're notorious for never practicing.

So I'd always be the person because we're, you know, we're doing other things.

We're still running an event.

There was a range day going on.

There's other things.

Like, okay, well, we have two hours of practice.

I'm like, no, we're just going to wing it, guys.

Don't worry about it.

And Ben would always be in my ear.

I'd have this little in ear piece and Ben's like, no, no, no, no, go to a different category.

No, no, something's not right.

No, no, no, don't.

The screen's not working.

And I'm like, so, so okay, what, what?

Ben says again.

Ben.

And I'm trying to listen.

He's literally screaming in my ear saying, no, no, go to a different.

And you're trying to talk at the.

Same time I'm trying to talk.

So I'm hearing him trying not to repeat what he's saying going in the win.

No, that's the wrong winner.

Okay then.

So anyhow, guys, so how's everybody doing out there?

Hey, you're looking good.

Last year was once again, shout out to the.

To the Venetian Production team.

It's also much easier when you have a professional team that rather than having to stand something up in the middle of the desert.

Yeah.

In a tank barn.

Yeah.

Which we've.

Two years ago, we had to stop.

Like, we had one category in, and something happened.

The entire system just.

Oh, the whole system shut down.

And I'm on stage just standing there with Thea, and I'm like.

Like, everything stopped.

And then Madison got on stage, and he just talked for a while, which was great.

That saved me.

Somehow.

Everyone's like, calm down.

Take a breath.

You'll be back on stage.

And we came back on.

It was great.

But, yeah, in the theater, it was very different because you're looking up and you're like, there's a row, there's a row, there's a row.

There's another row.

There's another row.

Like, wow, this thing holds 2,000 people.

You know, I mean, I'm sure for most it's nothing, but for us, that was a big.

It's a big deal.

And just how it looks and the aesthetics and just.

It's beautiful.

It's very, very overwhelming.

So it's a cool experience.

Yeah.

I don't want to be on that stage.

Sorry.

You just had every.

Yeah, but for us.

But you got to do, like, some sort of, like, talent show.

Are we going to come on, like, hula hoop or something?

Tap dance?

We could.

We could find something fun.

Maybe sing karaoke.

No, I'm not the karaoke shit.

Okay.

Hula hoop.

I know we can do.

We'll practice calf roping.

I just got my new calf rope in.

Yeah.

And we'll go up there, we'll throw a calf across, and we'll.

Calf rope.

No, I'll run.

Okay.

Do I get the hogtie?

You.

I am not confirming or denying this at all.

This is not permission.

So we are a little over halfway through this episode.

So it's time for our segment from the Soapbox where we deal with some of the challenges that we are facing as a 2A community and get your alls hot takes on them.

Obviously, the Gundys is one aspect of what you guys do at Forge as a marketing firm, and you guys are intimately aware with the challenges facing the industry from a big tech, mainstream media point of view.

How has hosting something like the Gundies changed your perspective on just how much censorship really plays into the whole two A game?

Great question.

It's a really good question.

Really good question.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, we have to look at it if we're Specifically talking about the Gundies, I would say the Gundies would be the easiest but when we talk about client work and specific clients, definitely much, much, much harder.

But it's always something else.

There's always another thing that they're cracking down on or something else they're going to talk about and say, you can't do this.

So we just have to work those, you know, fine lines and try.

And the analogy I always give is, you know, if you see a bear in the woods, you don't go up and slap it.

We can live in harmony together, just kind of walk around each other and you should be okay.

But if you go directly head on, you're going to lose.

So yeah, it's an interesting battle, right, because you want to go where the people are, especially with, with the awards.

People are on social, they're on Instagram, X maybe some are still on Facebook.

You know, TikTok is huge.

YouTube's definitely the powerhouse and as well touched on.

It's all about working within their guidelines.

Luckily we have a great, great contact over there, a couple of different contacts that are very much pro gun and at the end of the day what they tell us is it's, you know, it's capitalism.

You know, YouTube's getting hit by the left and these anti gun organizations just as much as we are, they're very much trying to take all gun content off of YouTube and it's all about the dollars.

Right?

So even though it very much feels like, and sometimes does feel like a direct attack on the 2A, there are ways to work within the boundaries they've set up and those boundaries are shrinking.

There's no doubt about it.

They 100% are.

But it's, it's, you know, it's, it's not game over yet.

And going back to the Gundies as a whole, you know, from a, from a conceptual standpoint in our marketing pitch we're always like, it's the, it's the yellow pages of content creators, right?

Like there are a lot of companies that use the different, the people in the categories to find their next content creator they want to work with.

And I think that's, I think that's a great resource.

You know, that's not why we created the event, but if it works, it works.

So big picture with two way and meta and all these alternative platforms, I think it's important to be where the people are but I also think it's important to invest into the platforms that are supporting what we do.

So there's a balance that we need to maintain.

Yeah.

And it's, I think it's, you know, being wise in what people put out there and understanding that, you know, we have to be creative.

Yes.

I think we're in the adapt or die mode when it comes to content creation right now.

I think that's why so many people are frustrated is because we can't produce the same content that we've always produced because they are cracking down on that.

And so you have to be willing and able to adapt and move platforms to kind of build secondary audiences to make sure that you're able to get your message out.

But I think that this creates resiliency within the 2A space.

And I think it's also bringing people together in a way that maybe we don't recognize.

Iron sharpens iron.

And when we have to get creative, when we have to be better and learn how to beat the algorithms and share things with each other and prop each other up, I think we are stronger as a community having gone through that resistance.

And I think hopefully with more of that community effort, we're going to be able to overcome that resistance and that attack that we're seeing from kind of that establishment media and social media, I.

Think we are making headway with that.

You know, over the years you see content creators, the demolition ranches, the Brandon Herreras, well, he's a unique case and I'll come back to that.

Those that are putting out entertaining, fun content, you know, you hear some of the old guard sometimes be frustrated with that and aren't they pushing policy or why aren't they doing this and that?

And you need to have a, you've used this on the podcast multitude of times, a gateway or an on ramp, right.

To get someone into the community.

And that's, that's what they do, they get people introduced into firearms.

We have a generation that is obsessed with video games.

And like that's how I First Black Ops 2.

Probably that's how I learned about like the Chris Vector or the Scar or whatever.

That's your first introduction for many people to firearms.

And then it's, it's, you know, as you get a little older, maybe, maybe a family friend takes you to the range or if you're lucky enough, you have a family that's already into it or you go hunting and that snowball effect begins to build to reaching a point to where you can build an advocate for the two way.

Right.

And like.

But there's a process to it.

It doesn't happen overnight.

And I think that social media can play is a huge value add to both of those.

As long as you understand that you can't shove the policy down the throat of someone who is just like, oh, that looks cool.

You know, you got, you got to start somewhere, ease them on into it.

Yeah.

Well, I'm going to do my from the soapbox because I don't get to do that this often.

Co opting my segment.

Yeah, co opting this time.

So I know we've been talking about the Gundys, so I'm going to derail for a second because I'm very passionate about this.

You two are in the marketing space.

What can we do better as an industry?

We were just talking about onramp, we're just talking about video games.

Talking about this.

We see all the time the same content constantly being putting out by companies.

Either they're leading to a demographic of.

How do I want to put this?

Fuds.

That's the best way to put it.

Or it's the tactical guy.

Yeah, sure, both are great, don't get me wrong.

But how do we go past this?

What do we need to do better?

That's a good question.

I'll take it first.

Ben, go for it.

I'll let you.

So the first thing, and I think a lot of people missed the mark on this is stop thinking about the content.

Go back to the platform that you want the content to go on.

Learn the actual platform that you're putting the content out.

Look at all the opportunities that that platform has to offer.

So forget about what you're creating.

Forget all about that.

Every platform is very different.

YouTube, Instagram.

What?

Just forget about content for a second, right?

For a second, completely.

Well, what I'm saying what I mean by that is you can't do the same thing over and over and expect different results, right?

If you post a photo, if every, if you're posting five days a week, six days a week, and all you're ever posting is a photo, you're going to get the same results.

Well, for example, those platforms internally have different features.

So the biggest thing is to look at the platforms that you want to distribute your content on and then focus on the opportunities and the features that platform utilizes.

So whether it be stories or then, you know, taking even farther, okay, story is a story.

But then what else can we do in the story?

Did my app get updated?

So when that app get updated, if Instagram updates right, they might add a new feature.

They might say, now we have these new AI googly eyes, whatever the case may be.

So if you utilize all the in app features and understand what they all are, and then create your content and start utilizing those features that those apps are specifically using, your content is going to do better because the algorithm is going to award you for using what they have spent millions and millions and millions of dollars creating.

So that's what I think our industry lacks on is everyone thinks that we're shadow, banned or restricted, which there are levels of restrictions when it comes to paid ads, 100 million percent.

That is right there, black and white terms of use, right?

But when it comes to organic content production and, or, sorry, organic content distribution, there's a lot more leeway.

But we're not ever getting this leeway because we're not ever utilizing what everyone else is doing.

If you go over the makeup industry, you go over to the finance, whatever industry, right, the younger generation, they're using all these crazy things inside of the apps and they're using every single possible thing filtered to this, to that, to AI.

And then they're putting their, then they're hitting post.

That post is instantaneously going to do much better than you just hitting click and post.

So understanding the platforms themselves is the most important piece along with the type of content that you're making because then it still has to be okay.

Are you engaging your customers or is it entertaining?

Are you trying to sell something having an equal, not equal, but having a level of percentages of how that content looks and is it consistency?

Are you doing it on a consistent basis?

Are you going back into the analytics and understanding the analytics and saying, okay, is this right?

Is this wrong?

Should I do it here?

Should I do it then?

So it's, it's just being able to read that data that's given back to you and also working within the app, never really using third party.

You know, it takes work, right?

Like the days of hiring a marketing firm with some kids in basements with a cell phone.

Those days are over.

And that really wasn't a thing, right?

But people were getting around with it because back in the day, everyone just thought social media was, oh, it's for kids and anybody can do it on their cell phone.

That is not how it works.

This is full production.

This is editing.

There's sound editing, there's sound engineering.

This is a real, real job from just the content.

And that's just step one.

Then you have to distribute that content.

You have to know how to get it out there and do it in the right way.

So that's where, you know, we're very Blessed that we've really worked hard at that and understanding how to utilize that and implemented the right team and kept evolving those different features to go down and then also keep up to date because it changes every day.

Well, you mentioned.

Gary.

I'm sorry, Ben, I'm gonna cut you off for one second.

You mentioned engaging.

And my biggest pet peeve that I've seen firearms companies do is they get somebody saying something in the comments.

Comments or even getting comments and not engaging with that audience.

There are people who want to talk to you about your product or even if it's something bad like I don't want your product sucks.

Okay.

Why prove it.

Why?

Why does it suck?

What's your best customer?

Yeah.

Do you own one?

Yeah, but we're all too scared of the comment section that we don't engage because you may get somebody.

And we, we get it all the time on the say the second stuff is, oh, we, we're not doing this.

I'm not doing this because of this.

Why?

Well, because this is how I feel.

Okay, well, why do you feel that way?

Like engage with the, the audience.

Those are people who are, who are following you.

Theoretically, they're following you.

Right.

Or somebody being a troll.

Right.

Which is the best type of engagement?

It is the best because they're not a they, you know, customer or follower, whatever you want to look at it, you know, they may not be one now, but they are your best chance to turn them into one and you can have an open dialogue.

And then what's cool is, you know, you could tag somebody in.

If you know someone that's.

If you're talking about a topic, then you know someone in the space that can back it up, tag them in their comment.

Now they can jump in and then other people are going to jump in.

You know, you could have the worst comment in the world.

Create just a landslide of not analytics, but data to where everyone's jumping in.

And now there's post that you might thought have done nothing, but now it went viral because of a conversation.

And ultimately usually that's what they want.

They're looking for a response.

We have a multitude of real world examples where someone comments a negative thing about something and then you take the very simple time to reply and then you get them on the phone, eventually you talk through whatever their concern is and then they become a customer for life like that.

We have a multitude of examples of exactly that.

You know, there's a.

It's called social media for a reason.

You have to be social.

There's There are too many companies.

Will just put a photo, video out there and kind of just let it, let it do its thing and, and that's it.

You know, there's, I'm going to call out Palmetto State Armory because right now they are doing a phenomenal job of engaging in their content.

They're putting out content that is transparent, that is honest, that is showcasing the good, bad and ugly.

If they have to delay a product launch or something like that and the audience is eating it up, it's probably one of the best examples that's going on in the industry right now.

To that same point, companies, going back to your initial question, personality, you need to have someone who is the face of the brand.

You need to have someone that understands what it takes to create content, that can focus on creating content, that can invest the time into learning about the trends.

To Will's point, it's, it's no longer a one person job.

You know, it's a, you have to build a full team.

You need a content strategist, you need the person who's doing the distribution, you need the production team.

And you know, there's, there's variations that you can, you can do it at different, at different levels.

But also to Will's point, the consistency of all the above is, is the only way that you're going to see true results.

And that goes all the way back to our initial topic on meta and everything.

You have to play within their guidelines and you also have to do what the platforms asking you to do.

You know, the simplest way I like to put it is look at the content you consume on a personal level.

Look at what that is.

Is it, is it, Are you watching a commercial for McDonald's?

Like, is McDonald's putting out a post about Big Mac $2 off or something like that?

No, they're doing, they're doing something funny or entertaining.

They're, they're brand building.

They're, they're not trying to shove a product down your throat.

You're not necessarily.

It's brand awareness and it's like you're saying about this, it's how much the budget.

You know, you can't be afraid to have a marketing budget.

I mean, that's, you have to, it's just look at Coca Cola, look at all the major companies, look at their marketing budget.

It's massive.

I don't care how big or small you are, you have to have a dedicated budget to marketing.

And you can really see that when companies, you know, if something's going the industry slow or something slows down.

The first thing everyone always thinks of, it's like, oh, well, let's, let's cut our marketing budget.

Like, well, hold on a minute.

That's the worst time to cut your marketing budget.

Because as Instagram as it goes, or social media, right.

It's a scroll, you're scrolling.

So if you're not within that page and you're not, you're not coming up.

Top of mind, top of mind, you're.

Really going down under.

So it's, it has to be just part of the process.

And it didn't change whether it was TV or magazines or newspapers, it's always been the same thing.

It's just a different platform.

That's all it is.

Marketing has been the same since day one.

You know, from a guy on a horseback with a letter telling somebody about something, you know, it's the same, Same damn thing.

Well, I, I couldn't agree.

You mentioned brand and I couldn't agree more.

I think that's a big issue in our space, is that everyone thinks that their product will speak for themselves so they don't need to build a brand or how our customer service will speak for itself or this will speak for itself.

But if you don't have a brand, you don't build it up.

Now you're running like, cool.

Who are you?

Or is this a legitimate product?

You don't have a brand.

You got to build that brand awareness.

And I think that's a huge issue that we run into as an industry because we're so worried about the quote unquote, shadow banning.

Or we're so worried about this restriction and that restriction or how I invested in all this money into my product and it's not selling.

And they go, why is my product not selling?

You're not marketing.

No one knows about it.

Yeah.

Or their marketing is like, oh, we took four pictures with our cell phone.

Or I gave it to one guy and he did a review on it.

Right.

Why don't I, why don't I have 100 sales?

Yeah.

It's crazy to think, like, I don't know if you're listening to this and you're a brand ambassador or brand exec or something like that is stuff that you need.

You need a.

And that's the other thing, the face to a brand.

It's a big thing.

And a lot of owners, or I wouldn't say owners, but a lot of companies do not want to pick that specific face to a brand because they're worried they're going to leave or the.

Somebody's got an ego.

I mean, you need that, though.

Well, I think, I think that it goes beyond brand and it goes into the movement as a whole.

The community as a whole is.

If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

And I think whether it is on the political side or the brand side or the consumer side, we all want the same thing.

We all want success.

But there's no one plus one equals two.

If we just follow these steps, you know, we're always going to have success because we're in a constantly changing map of play.

Right.

We're in a.

It's constantly changing.

It's constantly evolving.

And what was hot five minutes ago might not be hot now very much.

And so I think partially it is, you know, incumbent upon the brands to help bring people into the firearms community, but it's also incumbent upon the consumers to let the brands know what they want.

And for all of us on the protecting of the Second Amendment, we have to be listening to both groups because culture is upstream of politics and politics is upstream of the industry and the everyday consumer.

And if we're all not rowing in the same direction, you know, we're going to get taken under and we can't afford that in this time in America's history.

And I don't think any, anyone wanting this sitting at this table wants anything but success for the entire industry and for the entire community.

And that's why we have things like the Gundy's to celebrate the community.

That was Kaylee's way of reeling John back in.

Very well said.

It's the, the awards also legitimizes what we do as a community.

Both internally, you know, it's a celebration, but also externally, we, we had to talk to our banker the other day and he's like, oh, what's this Gundy's thing?

Right?

We explain what it was and he's like, oh, I went skeet shooting for the first time.

I was like.

We dove into a whole conversation.

Like it's an, it's an easy.

It's a familiar, understandable concept to someone that's not familiar with firearms.

Yeah.

If these rednecks in the woods, which is what they think we're all doing with our ars, you know, can do something as corporate or black tie or whatever word you want to use as an award show, an award ceremony, because they're automatically thinking the Grammys or the Emmys or whatever, it allows them to put in perspective, like, okay, maybe these are normal humans, Americans, upstanding Citizens that aren't trying to take over the government.

At least, you know, it was supposed to be mainstream.

Right.

We just wanted to do something that was on a mainstream level.

That everybody that went hunting with their dad at 10 years old and never picked up a gun again for the rest of life could have some sort of relationship with, you know, if you watch John Wick or you watch movies or you have that sense of, okay, this is cool.

And it was, that's.

It stops right there to get everyone involved.

So I think we, I think we did a pretty good job of that.

That was a good example of the banker because that was actually really funny.

I remember that.

And, and when we said that, he goes, oh, okay, that's cool.

You know, it was very like just nonchalant.

It wasn't like, oh, what, you know, what, what's going on here?

It was just simple.

And that's exactly the point that we wanted to get to.

And that was cool.

But it took a long, took a long time.

Well, six years, five years to get to that point.

And I think, I think as a whole, the community, that's a great, great example of that.

As a community, we are succeeding.

We, we always see the negatives and where it's a constant battle, but progress is being made.

Yeah, there's, you know, John Wick is awesome, right?

Like, people love that stuff.

Call of duty is awesome.

Yeah.

It's granted.

Do they show guns in the best?

I don't know.

But it's a starting point, so things are going in the right direction.

I think the Gundy shows that.

I think the content that you see on YouTube shows that.

I think everything that our community is doing to try to be better is working.

We just have to do more of it.

Yep.

Gasoline on fire.

Yeah, 100%.

Well, since Ben is here and not back there giving us a wrap up sign.

You want to give us a wrap up sign?

Well, I mean, Alex usually.

Is it.

What is that like this?

Yeah, like this.

Well, this was a fun conversation.

I always enjoy talking with both of you.

I had, we had a great time as always.

It's not like I haven't seen you all week.

Yeah.

But we love you, buddy.

We love you.

Go ahead and plug away from the master plugs too.

You guys go ahead and go follow.

State of the second.

Yes, yes.

So you can find thegundies on thegundies.com.

you can also find us on social.

Gundy Awards voting started on December 1st and it ends on December 15th.

So make sure you get your votes in we have a ton of awesome companies that have put up some pretty epic prizes.

To get those prizes, all you have to do is vote.

And every vote gets you an entry towards the grand prize, which gets you an all expense paid trip to come to the ceremony itself, come to Vegas, present an award potentially if you want, and meet your favorite content creators.

Yep.

So make sure you vote, make sure you take advantage, make sure you follow Stay the Second Podcast.

And if you like marketing or need marketing help, check us out at Forge Relations.

Don't forget to vote for Stay the Second Podcast for Podcast of the Year.

Got to get one last plugin.

Thank you for joining us today.

Make sure to like, share, subscribe, hit the little bell for notification on all platforms and we will see you next time.