1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,273 Matt Edmundson: Well, hello and welcome to the Ecommerce Podcast 2 00:00:08,329 --> 00:00:11,425 with me, your host, Matt Edmundson. Now, this is 3 00:00:11,465 --> 00:00:14,977 a show all about helping you deliver Ecommerce. 4 00:00:15,081 --> 00:00:18,977 Wow. And to help us do just that, we've got a 5 00:00:19,001 --> 00:00:21,385 special guest, someone who has been on the show 6 00:00:21,465 --> 00:00:27,051 before, Raul Galleria from Referral Candy. Now, 7 00:00:27,153 --> 00:00:30,535 Raul was on the podcast in 2021. We talked about 8 00:00:30,575 --> 00:00:33,311 referral marketing and if you've listened to that 9 00:00:33,343 --> 00:00:37,423 episode, you'll remember how good it was. So I'm 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,015 really, really looking forward to this 11 00:00:40,055 --> 00:00:42,671 conversation and getting going again. Raul 12 00:00:42,703 --> 00:00:44,183 reached out to me a few weeks ago and said, matt, 13 00:00:44,199 --> 00:00:46,671 I've got some really interesting stuff. Can we 14 00:00:46,703 --> 00:00:49,815 chat about it? And I'm like, of course we can. Of 15 00:00:49,855 --> 00:00:52,743 course we can. And before we get into it, let me 16 00:00:52,759 --> 00:00:54,959 just say very warm welcome to you. Especially if 17 00:00:54,967 --> 00:00:57,071 this is your first time with us on the Ecommerce 18 00:00:57,103 --> 00:01:01,947 podcast, It' great to meet you. Do reach out to 19 00:01:01,971 --> 00:01:05,731 me on social media, Edmundson. You'll find me on 20 00:01:05,763 --> 00:01:08,051 LinkedIn, on Instagram. It'd be great to connect. 21 00:01:08,083 --> 00:01:09,275 Let me know what you're doing, Let me know about 22 00:01:09,315 --> 00:01:11,595 your business. I was just talking to a chap 23 00:01:11,635 --> 00:01:13,563 called Dylan earlier on today. Dylan, if you're 24 00:01:13,579 --> 00:01:15,571 listening, hope you're doing well. And we were 25 00:01:15,603 --> 00:01:18,403 chatting about his ecom business and he said to 26 00:01:18,419 --> 00:01:20,683 me he found the podcast in August, right. And 27 00:01:20,699 --> 00:01:22,275 bearing in mind the time of recording, this is 28 00:01:22,315 --> 00:01:25,119 October and he's already caught up. Right. And 29 00:01:25,127 --> 00:01:28,287 we've been on air five years. That's some going, 30 00:01:28,391 --> 00:01:31,047 not going to lie, some going. And I just have to 31 00:01:31,071 --> 00:01:34,407 apologize for the sheer amount of my voice in 32 00:01:34,431 --> 00:01:37,503 that time. But anyway, do reach out. Be great to 33 00:01:37,519 --> 00:01:39,303 hear from you, great to connect with you and of 34 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,983 course, if you are a regular to the show, a warm 35 00:01:42,079 --> 00:01:46,615 welcome back. Now, let's talk about Raul. He is 36 00:01:46,655 --> 00:01:49,647 the chief advocate at Referral Candy, which is 37 00:01:49,671 --> 00:01:53,071 the go to app for E commerce brands looking to 38 00:01:53,103 --> 00:01:56,691 grow through customer referral programs. He has 39 00:01:56,743 --> 00:01:59,507 got over 10 years of experience. He's been a 40 00:01:59,531 --> 00:02:03,315 Referral candy a wee while, as we say, which has 41 00:02:03,355 --> 00:02:06,435 empowered 30,000 plus brands to turn their 42 00:02:06,475 --> 00:02:10,331 customers into a marketing force. Love that 43 00:02:10,363 --> 00:02:12,707 phrase. For the past five years, Raul has led 44 00:02:12,771 --> 00:02:15,139 partnership efforts connecting with marketing 45 00:02:15,187 --> 00:02:18,971 agencies, media and tech companies to boost 46 00:02:19,043 --> 00:02:23,291 growth without spending on ads. So, Raul, welcome 47 00:02:23,323 --> 00:02:25,841 to the show, man. Great to have you back. How are 48 00:02:25,873 --> 00:02:27,417 you doing today, good sir? 49 00:02:27,561 --> 00:02:30,489 Raul Galera: I'm doing pretty good. Thanks for having me again. 50 00:02:30,657 --> 00:02:32,449 Matt Edmundson: Oh, no worries. Always great to have you back on 51 00:02:32,457 --> 00:02:34,273 the show, man. Always great to talk to you. We 52 00:02:34,289 --> 00:02:36,137 were talking before we hit the record button I'm 53 00:02:36,161 --> 00:02:38,225 sort of slightly envious of the weather that you 54 00:02:38,265 --> 00:02:40,297 have where you are versus the weather that we 55 00:02:40,321 --> 00:02:42,953 have where I am. You need air conditioning, I 56 00:02:42,969 --> 00:02:47,553 need a heater. And it's amazing because we're 57 00:02:47,569 --> 00:02:50,249 only a few hours apart how just a few degrees on 58 00:02:50,257 --> 00:02:51,913 the old equator changes everything. But, you 59 00:02:51,929 --> 00:02:55,361 know, there it is. So it's been what we were 60 00:02:55,393 --> 00:02:57,941 saying. In fact we looked at the date. It was 61 00:02:58,013 --> 00:03:00,213 sometime late, late September, wasn't it? When 62 00:03:00,229 --> 00:03:03,197 you're on the show in 21, which is, it's almost 63 00:03:03,261 --> 00:03:05,533 like you said, the three year anniversary. 64 00:03:05,629 --> 00:03:06,013 Raul Galera: Yep. 65 00:03:06,069 --> 00:03:08,465 Matt Edmundson: So what's been going on the last three years? 66 00:03:09,445 --> 00:03:18,621 Raul Galera: A lot. Yeah, we talked end of 2021, which we were 67 00:03:18,773 --> 00:03:22,181 pretty much still at the peak of kind of like 68 00:03:22,213 --> 00:03:26,753 Covid fuel Ecommerce growth. You know, 2021 was 69 00:03:26,769 --> 00:03:30,249 still a year in which companies were getting, you 70 00:03:30,257 --> 00:03:33,137 know, crazy amounts of funding. Everyone in the 71 00:03:33,161 --> 00:03:35,833 space was, you know, growing with again just like 72 00:03:35,889 --> 00:03:39,577 cheap borrowing lots of money available for, for 73 00:03:39,601 --> 00:03:43,681 funding for DTC brands. So things were going 74 00:03:43,753 --> 00:03:46,273 pretty well for everybody, you could say in the 75 00:03:46,289 --> 00:03:49,433 Ecommerce world. 2022, we started to see a little 76 00:03:49,449 --> 00:03:52,367 bit of a, kind of like, you know, darker clouds 77 00:03:52,391 --> 00:03:55,927 in the horizon and that kind of materialized in 78 00:03:55,951 --> 00:04:00,679 2023, I think, in which I was just talking to a 79 00:04:00,687 --> 00:04:04,199 few people a couple weeks ago about it and you 80 00:04:04,207 --> 00:04:08,279 know, I was saying how some brands in 2023 said 81 00:04:08,327 --> 00:04:11,823 that, you know, it was almost a flat year. And 82 00:04:11,879 --> 00:04:14,711 some of them said actually flat year being a flat 83 00:04:14,743 --> 00:04:17,163 year was almost like the, the positive scenario, 84 00:04:17,219 --> 00:04:18,867 you know, for, for a lot of brands, like if you 85 00:04:18,891 --> 00:04:22,459 were just flat on 2023, you know, you could, you 86 00:04:22,467 --> 00:04:24,427 know, pat yourself in the back and you know, it's 87 00:04:24,451 --> 00:04:26,695 like, good job. Right? You kind of, you made it. 88 00:04:27,835 --> 00:04:30,339 That being said, we had a lot of growth around 89 00:04:30,387 --> 00:04:32,931 the Black Friday and Cyber Monday mark last year. 90 00:04:33,043 --> 00:04:34,619 A lot of people say that it was, you know, fueled 91 00:04:34,667 --> 00:04:36,883 by, you know, kind of like buy now, pay later 92 00:04:36,979 --> 00:04:39,499 type of debt, that we don't know what's going to 93 00:04:39,507 --> 00:04:41,667 happen in the future. But I mean the numbers are 94 00:04:41,691 --> 00:04:45,595 there and you know, we're entering again since 95 00:04:45,755 --> 00:04:48,971 October 7th. Today we're heading into Black 96 00:04:49,003 --> 00:04:51,979 Friday Cyber Monday fairly soon. Brands are 97 00:04:51,987 --> 00:04:54,067 getting ready for that and there's always this, 98 00:04:54,171 --> 00:04:55,891 you know, there's like this big question of 99 00:04:55,923 --> 00:04:57,571 what's going to happen. It's going to be bigger 100 00:04:57,603 --> 00:05:01,555 than last year. How are the US Elections going to 101 00:05:01,635 --> 00:05:06,419 play out in all this? So yeah, one of the 102 00:05:06,427 --> 00:05:08,707 initiatives that we put together kind of because 103 00:05:08,731 --> 00:05:11,587 of all these unknowns that A lot of agencies are 104 00:05:11,611 --> 00:05:14,339 having. We put together this confidence report to 105 00:05:14,347 --> 00:05:16,615 try to shine some light on at least what other 106 00:05:16,655 --> 00:05:19,551 people are thinking and kind of like, what's the 107 00:05:19,583 --> 00:05:23,715 mood around Ecommerce agencies on a monthly basis. 108 00:05:24,055 --> 00:05:30,055 Matt Edmundson: Great. So just. It says here that the confidence 109 00:05:30,175 --> 00:05:33,511 report involves gathering data from around 100 110 00:05:33,583 --> 00:05:36,871 agencies on a monthly basis. You guys are 111 00:05:36,903 --> 00:05:39,567 creating therefore a confidence index, which I 112 00:05:39,591 --> 00:05:41,967 just, I think is such a great phrase, and 113 00:05:41,991 --> 00:05:44,431 tracking trends in Ecommerce, such as how brands 114 00:05:44,463 --> 00:05:47,201 are spending on marketing, hiring agencies, 115 00:05:47,273 --> 00:05:49,961 versus in house, and much more. So you've been 116 00:05:49,993 --> 00:05:54,121 putting this confidence report together, which I 117 00:05:54,193 --> 00:05:57,057 really like the idea of, by the way. Thank you. 118 00:05:57,201 --> 00:05:59,993 The agencies that you're talking to, are they all 119 00:06:00,049 --> 00:06:01,985 marketing agencies? Are they a variety of 120 00:06:02,025 --> 00:06:04,041 agencies? What kind of agencies are we talking to 121 00:06:04,073 --> 00:06:04,457 here? 122 00:06:04,561 --> 00:06:05,921 Raul Galera: One thing that they all have in common is that 123 00:06:05,953 --> 00:06:09,721 they are Ecommerce focused. So I would say the 124 00:06:09,753 --> 00:06:12,137 majority of them are marketing agencies because 125 00:06:12,161 --> 00:06:13,673 there's a bunch of questions that are about 126 00:06:13,729 --> 00:06:15,129 marketing budgets. And so obviously they're the 127 00:06:15,137 --> 00:06:19,511 ones that I would say the vast majority of them 128 00:06:19,663 --> 00:06:23,631 have touched kind of marketing with their 129 00:06:23,663 --> 00:06:25,967 clients. Probably kind of like, I would say the 130 00:06:25,991 --> 00:06:28,463 main difference between all these agencies is how 131 00:06:28,479 --> 00:06:30,871 they attract customers. So I would say there's 132 00:06:30,903 --> 00:06:33,527 like two big groups of agencies, one of them that 133 00:06:33,551 --> 00:06:36,727 are just like pure, you know, marketing ads type 134 00:06:36,751 --> 00:06:40,783 of companies that focus on that or SEO, you know, 135 00:06:40,799 --> 00:06:42,407 kind of type of thing. But like they focus just 136 00:06:42,431 --> 00:06:45,319 100% on marketing. And then the agencies that do 137 00:06:45,367 --> 00:06:49,317 like website builds or migrations or redesigns 138 00:06:49,381 --> 00:06:52,405 and then kind of keep that customer on retainer, 139 00:06:52,525 --> 00:06:55,613 typically with some other types of services that 140 00:06:55,709 --> 00:06:58,117 may include marketing or just maintenance or 141 00:06:58,221 --> 00:07:01,061 whatnot. But yeah, the one thing that they all 142 00:07:01,093 --> 00:07:05,525 have in common is that they're almost 100% 143 00:07:05,645 --> 00:07:07,205 focused on Ecommerce. 144 00:07:07,325 --> 00:07:09,413 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Which is great. And are they worldwide or 145 00:07:09,429 --> 00:07:11,469 are they just focused in one particular area? 146 00:07:11,597 --> 00:07:14,213 Raul Galera: Yeah, I don't have the numbers for me right now, 147 00:07:14,229 --> 00:07:17,621 but I think it's like 50% US and Canada and then 148 00:07:17,693 --> 00:07:21,781 like, I think like 30% Europe and then the rest 149 00:07:21,853 --> 00:07:25,749 between Australia and Asia, Latin America. So I 150 00:07:25,757 --> 00:07:29,293 mean, it's kind of leaning a little more heavily 151 00:07:29,349 --> 00:07:32,037 on Europe and the US But I'm actually in the 152 00:07:32,061 --> 00:07:33,509 process right now kind of getting more agencies 153 00:07:33,557 --> 00:07:36,589 from Australia as well. So we can get kind of 154 00:07:36,597 --> 00:07:39,007 that side of the world as well. But yeah, I'm 155 00:07:39,031 --> 00:07:41,591 trying to keep it as open as possible. 156 00:07:41,783 --> 00:07:44,623 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. And so your job then is you're growing 157 00:07:44,639 --> 00:07:47,807 this, you're getting more agencies on board. Just 158 00:07:47,831 --> 00:07:49,247 a quick pled. Then if you're listening to the 159 00:07:49,271 --> 00:07:51,415 show and you're an Ecommerce agency, then do 160 00:07:51,455 --> 00:07:53,623 reach out to Raul. How do they get hold of you? 161 00:07:53,799 --> 00:07:58,879 Raul Galera: Yeah, so I mean, they can find me on Twitter. I 162 00:07:58,887 --> 00:08:03,863 think my ad is raulgalera D. Or just search for 163 00:08:03,879 --> 00:08:07,919 roller referral candy. You'll find it. Otherwise, 164 00:08:07,967 --> 00:08:10,043 on our website we have the report and we have 165 00:08:10,059 --> 00:08:11,659 like a little call to action where you can, you 166 00:08:11,667 --> 00:08:13,363 know, if you want to be a partner agency, you can 167 00:08:13,419 --> 00:08:17,811 submit and says referralcounty.com EACI cool. 168 00:08:17,883 --> 00:08:18,891 Matt Edmundson: EACI. 169 00:08:18,963 --> 00:08:19,459 Raul Galera: Yeah. 170 00:08:19,587 --> 00:08:21,523 Matt Edmundson: We will of course link today in the show notes as 171 00:08:21,539 --> 00:08:23,411 well, which you can get along for free at the 172 00:08:23,443 --> 00:08:25,739 website ecommercepodcast.net and of course, if 173 00:08:25,747 --> 00:08:27,459 you're listening to this on your favorite podcast 174 00:08:27,507 --> 00:08:29,707 app, they'll be on that as well. Just scroll down 175 00:08:29,731 --> 00:08:31,651 and they'll be there and just click the links 176 00:08:31,683 --> 00:08:35,851 through to Raul. But so let's jump into it then. 177 00:08:35,883 --> 00:08:37,339 You know, you've got this confidence report. 178 00:08:37,387 --> 00:08:39,403 You're talking to e commerce agencies all over 179 00:08:39,419 --> 00:08:41,599 the world, all of whom Ecommerce commerce as 180 00:08:41,647 --> 00:08:43,263 clients, and they can see what their clients are 181 00:08:43,279 --> 00:08:44,751 doing, where they're spending and so on and so 182 00:08:44,783 --> 00:08:47,463 forth. At the time of recording, it's October. 183 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:50,655 We've got Black Friday Cyber Monday coming up. Is 184 00:08:50,695 --> 00:08:53,407 that a big deal right now for agencies? 185 00:08:53,591 --> 00:08:58,515 Raul Galera: Yeah. And so I would say that that is probably 186 00:08:59,215 --> 00:09:03,087 what is driving most of the confidence in 187 00:09:03,111 --> 00:09:06,287 Ecommerce right now. Okay. So when we started the 188 00:09:06,311 --> 00:09:08,735 report last year, the first month that we did 189 00:09:08,775 --> 00:09:12,873 the, the first report that we put out was in 190 00:09:12,929 --> 00:09:15,465 January 2024. So we started doing research on. In 191 00:09:15,545 --> 00:09:18,537 December. And you know, with that, we, you know, 192 00:09:18,561 --> 00:09:21,289 we're pretty much asking agencies that were, you 193 00:09:21,297 --> 00:09:23,085 know, kind of in the middle of the hangover after 194 00:09:23,665 --> 00:09:27,113 the Black Friday Cyber Monday and holiday kind of 195 00:09:27,129 --> 00:09:30,289 season sales from last year. So confidence, I 196 00:09:30,297 --> 00:09:31,961 mean, actually that was the highest level of 197 00:09:31,993 --> 00:09:35,081 confidence that we've registered since, since 198 00:09:35,113 --> 00:09:37,655 January. It's been, you know, going downhill 199 00:09:37,735 --> 00:09:40,887 pretty much up until like June. It's when it 200 00:09:40,911 --> 00:09:43,335 started to pick up again. July, August, September 201 00:09:43,455 --> 00:09:48,183 have been going up, but still in the second kind 202 00:09:48,199 --> 00:09:50,855 of highest month in terms of confidence has been 203 00:09:50,895 --> 00:09:53,311 this month. I mean, September, but still it's 204 00:09:53,343 --> 00:09:56,359 nowhere close to what we register in January. So 205 00:09:56,447 --> 00:09:59,087 I have the feeling that, you know, it's kind of. 206 00:09:59,111 --> 00:10:01,279 It's getting. Well, I guess we'll see. You know, 207 00:10:01,327 --> 00:10:04,103 obviously if we continue doing this next year, 208 00:10:04,159 --> 00:10:06,207 we'll be able to compare notes, you know, one 209 00:10:06,231 --> 00:10:09,979 year versus other. But it seem to me that it's, 210 00:10:10,027 --> 00:10:13,603 it's fairly seasonal in sense of like you know, 211 00:10:13,619 --> 00:10:17,395 kind of like summer months, obviously slower and 212 00:10:17,435 --> 00:10:20,291 like everybody's kind of always looking forward 213 00:10:20,363 --> 00:10:22,643 to that. You know, black friends have Monday type 214 00:10:22,659 --> 00:10:25,515 of, type of event that kind of defines the year. 215 00:10:25,555 --> 00:10:28,467 And so. And again, we were talking about it 216 00:10:28,491 --> 00:10:34,429 earlier where in the last year, which was for a 217 00:10:34,437 --> 00:10:38,581 lot of brands was flat at best. They were looking 218 00:10:38,613 --> 00:10:40,877 forward to that Black Friday Monday event. To 219 00:10:40,901 --> 00:10:44,045 just see. Yeah, to see, like, okay, let's just, 220 00:10:44,085 --> 00:10:45,573 let's just close the year. Like, let's just see 221 00:10:45,589 --> 00:10:47,677 if it was really a flat year. It was positive, 222 00:10:47,741 --> 00:10:49,517 negative, like, you know, so. But, you know, we 223 00:10:49,541 --> 00:10:53,917 can't really say anything about 2023 until we hit 224 00:10:54,061 --> 00:10:56,789 mark. Right. And so it looks like it's pretty 225 00:10:56,797 --> 00:10:59,733 much the same happening this year. So 2023 all 226 00:10:59,749 --> 00:11:01,641 over again, really. 227 00:11:01,753 --> 00:11:04,045 Matt Edmundson: So people are finding it quite flat at the moment. 228 00:11:04,545 --> 00:11:08,473 Raul Galera: So I would say, I mean, it's, I mean, like 2023 229 00:11:08,489 --> 00:11:11,785 all over again when it comes to that excitement 230 00:11:11,825 --> 00:11:14,297 about Black Friday and summer Monday. Like, it's, 231 00:11:14,361 --> 00:11:17,281 it's. I don't, I don't think it's been that flat 232 00:11:17,313 --> 00:11:21,841 of a year, but there has been seasonality and 233 00:11:21,873 --> 00:11:24,297 again, it's not necessarily like a. From what. 234 00:11:24,361 --> 00:11:25,857 Again, from what I've seen on the, on the 235 00:11:25,881 --> 00:11:28,295 responses that have gone from agencies, it hasn't 236 00:11:28,335 --> 00:11:32,375 been that kind of sustained growth that you're 237 00:11:32,415 --> 00:11:33,775 kind of looking forward to. 238 00:11:33,935 --> 00:11:38,087 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's interesting is if I was to think 239 00:11:38,111 --> 00:11:42,591 about my own experience, I'd say 2024 was 240 00:11:42,623 --> 00:11:46,367 definitely better than 2023. Yeah. Certainly in 241 00:11:46,391 --> 00:11:49,383 our online businesses, in our agencies and, you 242 00:11:49,399 --> 00:11:50,903 know, the people that we partner with and so on 243 00:11:50,919 --> 00:11:53,343 and so forth, this year seems to have been. It's 244 00:11:53,359 --> 00:11:56,625 not true for everybody, obviously, but on the 245 00:11:56,665 --> 00:12:00,793 whole it sort of feels slightly better. You've 246 00:12:00,809 --> 00:12:02,929 got a few key events coming up at the moment, 247 00:12:02,977 --> 00:12:08,873 which I think is really interesting. In the uk, 248 00:12:08,929 --> 00:12:12,657 we've got the October budget. So this is where 249 00:12:12,681 --> 00:12:14,473 the government decides how they're going to try 250 00:12:14,489 --> 00:12:18,577 and fill a big 20 billion pound tax missing hole. 251 00:12:18,761 --> 00:12:21,033 So everyone's slightly concerned about that, but 252 00:12:21,049 --> 00:12:23,281 at the same time, not. Obviously, we've got Black 253 00:12:23,313 --> 00:12:25,201 Friday Cyber Monday, which people are building up 254 00:12:25,233 --> 00:12:28,645 for. So I do wonder if retail sales have slowed 255 00:12:28,685 --> 00:12:32,549 with the new government and everyone's going to 256 00:12:32,557 --> 00:12:34,453 wait to see what happens and then obviously we've 257 00:12:34,469 --> 00:12:36,317 got Black Friday Cyber Monday, you mentioned it 258 00:12:36,341 --> 00:12:38,245 earlier. We've got the US Presidential elections 259 00:12:38,285 --> 00:12:41,357 coming up on the other side of the pond. What's 260 00:12:41,381 --> 00:12:46,309 going to happen? Who knows? It's a fascinating 261 00:12:46,357 --> 00:12:50,597 one. Do you think? Are we seeing events like this 262 00:12:50,661 --> 00:12:53,477 actually affect confidence or is it just me? 263 00:12:53,661 --> 00:12:56,581 Because Ecommerce business owners, when sales get 264 00:12:56,613 --> 00:12:59,261 down we obviously want to understand why and 265 00:12:59,293 --> 00:13:01,861 sometimes we try and attribute it, you know, oh 266 00:13:01,893 --> 00:13:04,237 well, the wind was going northwest rather than 267 00:13:04,341 --> 00:13:07,517 southwest. You know we, yeah. Am I being crazy or 268 00:13:07,541 --> 00:13:09,621 is there something in this across the board? 269 00:13:09,733 --> 00:13:12,453 Raul Galera: So it's, you know, it's obviously in hindsight we 270 00:13:12,469 --> 00:13:15,573 always try to look for answers to events that you 271 00:13:15,589 --> 00:13:18,909 know, may or may not be correlated but something 272 00:13:18,957 --> 00:13:22,213 that is. So I, that's, that's actually one of the 273 00:13:22,229 --> 00:13:23,967 questions that we asked in the, in the latest 274 00:13:24,031 --> 00:13:27,159 report was about US Elections. So do you think 275 00:13:27,167 --> 00:13:28,527 it's going to have a positive, negative or 276 00:13:28,551 --> 00:13:32,679 neutral impact on Ecommerce sales in Q4? And you 277 00:13:32,687 --> 00:13:35,935 know I was expecting to just, you know we ask 278 00:13:35,975 --> 00:13:39,047 agencies to rate it, you know, from, from 0 to 279 00:13:39,071 --> 00:13:42,111 10. So you know, between 0 and 4 is negative, 5 280 00:13:42,143 --> 00:13:45,223 is neutral, 6 to 10 is positive. I was expecting 281 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:46,887 fives all across the board. Like people just 282 00:13:46,911 --> 00:13:48,327 like, you know, like, you know, I was expecting 283 00:13:48,351 --> 00:13:50,787 that kind of neutral answer. No, I was, it was 284 00:13:50,851 --> 00:13:54,091 actually mostly negative. So the majority of the 285 00:13:54,123 --> 00:13:57,267 agencies responded that they are expecting some 286 00:13:57,291 --> 00:14:01,011 sort of negative impact on Ecommerce sales. So 287 00:14:01,163 --> 00:14:03,083 you know it's interesting we're going to, we're 288 00:14:03,099 --> 00:14:05,435 going to get to publish another report right 289 00:14:05,475 --> 00:14:08,819 before the, the US elections. So because we're, 290 00:14:08,867 --> 00:14:10,787 we're planning, we're going to start planning the 291 00:14:10,811 --> 00:14:14,059 October issue now and we're going to publish it 292 00:14:14,067 --> 00:14:17,227 before November 5th. So it's, it's kind of 293 00:14:17,251 --> 00:14:18,819 interesting if like the trend continues or if 294 00:14:18,827 --> 00:14:20,515 it's kind of like a one time thing when you ask 295 00:14:20,555 --> 00:14:24,051 people for the first time. But, but yeah. So now 296 00:14:24,243 --> 00:14:27,635 answering your question, will they be right about 297 00:14:27,675 --> 00:14:30,531 it? I guess, you know, we'll find out. Yeah, 298 00:14:30,563 --> 00:14:31,695 we'll find out soon enough. 299 00:14:32,315 --> 00:14:35,227 Matt Edmundson: Did they give you any indication as to why they 300 00:14:35,251 --> 00:14:37,535 were negative in their opinion? 301 00:14:39,275 --> 00:14:43,537 Raul Galera: So you know it's, it's, I think it's one of the 302 00:14:43,561 --> 00:14:46,805 kind of keywords that I got the, you know, most 303 00:14:47,385 --> 00:14:49,233 like most. One of the most common keywords that 304 00:14:49,249 --> 00:14:50,913 we got from, from some of the responses and the 305 00:14:50,929 --> 00:14:53,201 quotes that we got were, was uncertainty in 306 00:14:53,233 --> 00:14:58,713 general. And so, and I'm tying that with other 307 00:14:58,769 --> 00:15:00,377 conversations that I've had throughout the year 308 00:15:00,441 --> 00:15:03,673 with other agencies. This is a theory that's, 309 00:15:03,729 --> 00:15:09,507 that's going around that I, you know, I, I think 310 00:15:09,531 --> 00:15:11,203 it makes sense because I've heard it from several 311 00:15:11,259 --> 00:15:13,451 people and is that whenever there's like a major 312 00:15:13,523 --> 00:15:19,675 event that takes people away from social media 313 00:15:19,715 --> 00:15:21,819 platforms in which in which they're exposed to 314 00:15:21,907 --> 00:15:26,051 ads. Yeah. Then Ecommerce sales go down. Meaning 315 00:15:26,083 --> 00:15:28,275 that, you know, one example that. A couple 316 00:15:28,315 --> 00:15:30,307 examples that I've kind of gathered throughout 317 00:15:30,331 --> 00:15:32,355 the year and I've had some agencies kind of 318 00:15:32,395 --> 00:15:35,245 confirm that that happened. So, you know, we all 319 00:15:35,285 --> 00:15:37,437 remember. I think it was like, I think it was 320 00:15:37,461 --> 00:15:40,173 like last year, right? The Titanic submarine type 321 00:15:40,189 --> 00:15:40,797 of thing. 322 00:15:40,941 --> 00:15:43,181 Matt Edmundson: Oh, yeah, yeah. Apparently there was a trial 323 00:15:43,213 --> 00:15:44,565 about that recently, wasn't there? 324 00:15:44,645 --> 00:15:47,013 Raul Galera: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So. But that was in the news 325 00:15:47,069 --> 00:15:49,517 for like, like three, four days. Like two. I 326 00:15:49,541 --> 00:15:52,421 don't remember. But apparently during those few 327 00:15:52,453 --> 00:15:54,301 days in which, you know, we were looking for the 328 00:15:54,333 --> 00:15:57,941 submarine, everybody was so focused on that or 329 00:15:57,973 --> 00:15:59,597 like that was driving so much of the attention 330 00:15:59,661 --> 00:16:02,667 that, you know, brands were spending less money 331 00:16:02,691 --> 00:16:05,147 on ads and so there were less conversions. At 332 00:16:05,171 --> 00:16:07,339 first, I found that kind of hard to believe, but 333 00:16:07,427 --> 00:16:10,427 I had the same feedback from multiple agencies 334 00:16:10,571 --> 00:16:12,699 and I, you know, and to be honest with you, that 335 00:16:12,707 --> 00:16:14,707 was one of the conversations that got me into, 336 00:16:14,891 --> 00:16:16,739 you know, starting a rapport like this because I 337 00:16:16,747 --> 00:16:19,427 was like, this is really interesting. And these 338 00:16:19,451 --> 00:16:22,147 are, this is stuff that, I mean, I only found out 339 00:16:22,171 --> 00:16:23,787 because I was, you know, kind of having a beer 340 00:16:23,811 --> 00:16:26,139 with one of these agency owner, otherwise I 341 00:16:26,147 --> 00:16:27,731 wouldn't have been able to, you know, kind of get 342 00:16:27,763 --> 00:16:29,427 that kind of data. And then, you know, got me 343 00:16:29,451 --> 00:16:30,989 thinking, like, okay, let's. There's got to be a 344 00:16:30,997 --> 00:16:34,685 way of verifying this and so, and so and tying 345 00:16:34,725 --> 00:16:37,989 it, tying that with US elections. So, you know, 346 00:16:37,997 --> 00:16:41,013 also during, during the World cup again, middle 347 00:16:41,029 --> 00:16:44,269 of the summer World cup, like, apparently sales 348 00:16:44,317 --> 00:16:47,125 in Europe were a little bit lower because people 349 00:16:47,165 --> 00:16:50,389 were paying more attention to the TV down on, you 350 00:16:50,397 --> 00:16:52,293 know, on social media, Instagram or Facebook or 351 00:16:52,309 --> 00:16:54,901 whatnot. And so it seems like it might be the 352 00:16:54,933 --> 00:16:58,875 same thing happening for. For the US Elections. 353 00:16:59,215 --> 00:17:01,847 Maybe we're not we. But like in the US they're 354 00:17:01,871 --> 00:17:04,535 spending more time kind of watching tv, like 355 00:17:04,615 --> 00:17:07,855 maybe debates, you know, not not only candidates 356 00:17:07,895 --> 00:17:11,543 debates, but like political debates on tv, you 357 00:17:11,559 --> 00:17:14,475 know, checking Twitter to see, you know, what 358 00:17:15,095 --> 00:17:18,815 candidates saying what. So that's also something 359 00:17:18,895 --> 00:17:22,103 that I'm getting is I might be driving that kind 360 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,703 of. And there's a little bit of fear too. So I 361 00:17:24,719 --> 00:17:26,795 feel like you are being a little. Just, you know. 362 00:17:28,055 --> 00:17:30,015 Yeah. Kind of maybe afraid of spending money 363 00:17:30,055 --> 00:17:31,679 until we figure out what's going on. I don't 364 00:17:31,687 --> 00:17:34,111 know. But it's. It's definitely that kind of 365 00:17:34,223 --> 00:17:36,615 uncertainty. It's probably the main word that's 366 00:17:36,655 --> 00:17:38,835 been thrown right now. 367 00:17:39,135 --> 00:17:40,831 Matt Edmundson: And it's a really interesting word, isn't it? 368 00:17:40,863 --> 00:17:44,519 Uncertainty. Because you're right, I think when 369 00:17:44,567 --> 00:17:48,231 we are uncertain as people, we tend to sort of 370 00:17:48,263 --> 00:17:50,351 retreat into ourselves a little bit, don't we? 371 00:17:50,383 --> 00:17:53,923 And so we spend less, we go out less, we do less 372 00:17:53,979 --> 00:17:56,459 maybe of certain things like eat out or whatever. 373 00:17:56,547 --> 00:18:01,147 Yep. And, and whilst it's interesting, you talk 374 00:18:01,171 --> 00:18:03,891 about how the Titanic submarine resulted in lower 375 00:18:03,923 --> 00:18:06,059 sales for some people, because it's the most 376 00:18:06,107 --> 00:18:08,683 extraordinary sort of event, isn't it? And you 377 00:18:08,699 --> 00:18:10,675 can you kind of go, well, it, maybe you've only 378 00:18:10,715 --> 00:18:13,323 had like a very small percentage, but it actually 379 00:18:13,379 --> 00:18:16,675 had some kind of impact which fascinate, 380 00:18:16,715 --> 00:18:18,027 fascinates me. So you've got, you've got 381 00:18:18,051 --> 00:18:19,651 uncertainty, but plus you've also got 382 00:18:19,683 --> 00:18:23,573 distraction, haven't you? So you've got the 383 00:18:23,589 --> 00:18:25,485 distract. And I mean, let's face it, you know, 384 00:18:25,525 --> 00:18:29,709 the, the drama without getting political enough 385 00:18:29,797 --> 00:18:33,317 and, you know, offending my US cousins, the drama 386 00:18:33,421 --> 00:18:37,645 around the US election is, is unbelievably 387 00:18:37,805 --> 00:18:42,989 addictive and, and serves as a huge distraction, 388 00:18:43,077 --> 00:18:47,037 I think, in, in many things, you know, and I, I 389 00:18:47,061 --> 00:18:49,385 just, I find the whole thing absolutely 390 00:18:50,175 --> 00:18:52,311 fascinating in so many ways. But you're right, my 391 00:18:52,343 --> 00:18:56,999 attention is there, plus my level of uncertainty. 392 00:18:57,167 --> 00:19:00,567 Certainly in the uk, with what's going to happen 393 00:19:00,591 --> 00:19:02,743 in the October budget, you're kind of like, well, 394 00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:05,831 geez, these world events are actually having an 395 00:19:05,863 --> 00:19:08,447 impact on me. So I can see how they would be 396 00:19:08,511 --> 00:19:10,847 impacting a whole bunch of people, which has a, 397 00:19:10,951 --> 00:19:13,047 has an effect. I don't know if you've got any 398 00:19:13,071 --> 00:19:15,071 insights on this then Roll. I mean, how would 399 00:19:15,103 --> 00:19:18,315 you, how would you counsel somebody who is 400 00:19:18,355 --> 00:19:21,747 running an Ecommerce business right now? How do 401 00:19:21,771 --> 00:19:25,011 you market well in times of uncertainty and 402 00:19:25,043 --> 00:19:28,571 distraction like this? Because there's obviously 403 00:19:28,603 --> 00:19:30,387 things that we can do when things are going okay, 404 00:19:30,451 --> 00:19:34,731 but actually understanding the sign of the times 405 00:19:34,803 --> 00:19:37,011 for want of a better expression and doing 406 00:19:37,083 --> 00:19:41,691 something well in that time, well, that's a 407 00:19:41,723 --> 00:19:43,715 different skill set in many ways, isn't it? And 408 00:19:43,755 --> 00:19:46,331 so I'm kind of curious, is there any insight on 409 00:19:46,363 --> 00:19:47,685 how to manage this? 410 00:19:48,505 --> 00:19:53,057 Raul Galera: I mean, I would say, and probably saying this 411 00:19:53,081 --> 00:19:55,921 because it's the type of marketing that we do at 412 00:19:55,953 --> 00:19:59,817 Referral Candy, but at the end of the day, brands 413 00:19:59,841 --> 00:20:01,857 that work really well are those that have a 414 00:20:01,881 --> 00:20:04,209 community around them. And it, you know, it 415 00:20:04,217 --> 00:20:06,577 doesn't necessarily have to be a physical 416 00:20:06,641 --> 00:20:09,129 community. And by physical, I don't mean like in 417 00:20:09,177 --> 00:20:13,179 person and I also mean like, you know, like a, 418 00:20:13,337 --> 00:20:15,791 like a Reddit, you know, like a subreddit or like 419 00:20:15,823 --> 00:20:18,055 a Facebook group or anything like that. It's 420 00:20:18,135 --> 00:20:20,047 literally a community of like, okay, you've been 421 00:20:20,071 --> 00:20:23,199 able to identify a group of customers that 422 00:20:23,367 --> 00:20:25,591 probably even before they bought from your brand, 423 00:20:25,623 --> 00:20:28,463 they identify with you. And so you know, you can 424 00:20:28,479 --> 00:20:30,615 use, you can use ads to get in front of those 425 00:20:30,655 --> 00:20:33,375 people. I mean you can get really good at ads 426 00:20:33,495 --> 00:20:37,335 targeting and figure out ways that you can again, 427 00:20:37,375 --> 00:20:39,895 like, okay, these people fit this criteria 428 00:20:39,935 --> 00:20:41,559 because they have these catch different, you 429 00:20:41,567 --> 00:20:43,567 know, categories and they check all these boxes. 430 00:20:43,591 --> 00:20:46,207 I want to get in front of them. Yeah, but at the 431 00:20:46,231 --> 00:20:48,063 same time it's kind of creating that word of 432 00:20:48,079 --> 00:20:49,835 mouth. And so you know, when you have a product 433 00:20:50,295 --> 00:20:54,519 that it's not necessarily generic because, and I 434 00:20:54,527 --> 00:20:56,367 don't mean like the product itself but like the 435 00:20:56,391 --> 00:20:58,223 way that you're selling it to people and the way 436 00:20:58,239 --> 00:21:00,215 that you're kind of like framing because you 437 00:21:00,215 --> 00:21:02,303 know, you can sell T shirts but you can, you can 438 00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:04,799 sell a million different types of T shirts to a 439 00:21:04,807 --> 00:21:06,759 million different type of people and you know, 440 00:21:06,807 --> 00:21:09,363 make them see it and realize, okay, that's, 441 00:21:09,459 --> 00:21:11,411 that's mine. That's, you know, that's exactly me. 442 00:21:11,443 --> 00:21:13,659 Like I, you know, I definitely need this. Right. 443 00:21:13,787 --> 00:21:16,499 And so again, when you have, it all comes down to 444 00:21:16,547 --> 00:21:18,051 product market fit. Right? So when you have 445 00:21:18,083 --> 00:21:20,355 product market fit to the point that you, you're 446 00:21:20,395 --> 00:21:24,411 able to just show your customers that you have 447 00:21:24,443 --> 00:21:26,931 the product that they have been looking, looking 448 00:21:26,963 --> 00:21:29,107 for even before they knew that they were looking 449 00:21:29,131 --> 00:21:32,379 for it, you're gonna be able to generate word of 450 00:21:32,387 --> 00:21:35,303 mouth around it. And yeah, and so you know, your 451 00:21:35,319 --> 00:21:37,039 customers are going to talk to other people that 452 00:21:37,047 --> 00:21:38,447 are going to start, they're going to start 453 00:21:38,591 --> 00:21:40,839 posting on, posting on social media, they're 454 00:21:40,847 --> 00:21:43,167 going to start living reviews, they're going to 455 00:21:43,191 --> 00:21:45,071 start generating all these, you know, user 456 00:21:45,103 --> 00:21:47,463 generated content that you can then leverage on 457 00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:50,759 other, on other platforms. So you know, at the 458 00:21:50,767 --> 00:21:54,255 end of the day, obviously ads are important and 459 00:21:54,335 --> 00:21:55,623 you know, obviously a lot of the messaging that 460 00:21:55,639 --> 00:21:57,543 we put out on referral candy is, you know, you 461 00:21:57,559 --> 00:21:59,995 don't, don't, don't, don't waste your time on, 462 00:22:00,535 --> 00:22:04,397 waste your money on ads. But you need ads. But 463 00:22:04,421 --> 00:22:06,837 it's all about like get the most out of it. So 464 00:22:06,941 --> 00:22:09,893 once don't just spend money on acquiring a 465 00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:11,645 customer and then kind of forget about it. That 466 00:22:11,685 --> 00:22:14,173 customer can become your salesperson. 467 00:22:14,349 --> 00:22:14,821 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 468 00:22:14,893 --> 00:22:17,597 Raul Galera: Make sure that after they buy they're so happy 469 00:22:17,661 --> 00:22:20,345 and they're so satisfied with your product that 470 00:22:21,045 --> 00:22:23,069 they're ready to tell their friends about it. And 471 00:22:23,077 --> 00:22:25,101 even on top of that you're, you're, you know, 472 00:22:25,133 --> 00:22:27,765 coming up with a Some sort of like referral 473 00:22:27,805 --> 00:22:30,661 structure that makes it even bigger of a no 474 00:22:30,693 --> 00:22:34,213 brainer for them to refer. So yeah, that, and 475 00:22:34,229 --> 00:22:37,533 that's kind of like the long term type of 476 00:22:37,589 --> 00:22:39,941 marketing plan that you want to have. 477 00:22:40,093 --> 00:22:42,693 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that. Powerful stuff. Powerful stuff. I 478 00:22:42,709 --> 00:22:44,581 like this because I mean in times of uncertainty, 479 00:22:44,613 --> 00:22:46,525 in times of distraction, you've got to stand out 480 00:22:46,565 --> 00:22:48,029 and you've got to give people a compelling 481 00:22:48,077 --> 00:22:52,605 reason. Right. And I think you can't be beige, 482 00:22:52,685 --> 00:22:54,773 you can't be the same as everybody else. You have 483 00:22:54,789 --> 00:22:57,675 got to stand out. So having, I love this, having 484 00:22:57,715 --> 00:23:00,179 a community is a great idea. What that means for 485 00:23:00,187 --> 00:23:02,019 you and your business is obviously very 486 00:23:02,147 --> 00:23:04,379 interesting and very different to everybody else. 487 00:23:04,547 --> 00:23:06,987 But focusing in on the community and focusing on 488 00:23:07,011 --> 00:23:09,403 an expand, delivering an experience that you 489 00:23:09,419 --> 00:23:11,659 know, just delivers. Wow. As we like to say on 490 00:23:11,667 --> 00:23:16,067 the Ecommerce podcast, deliver. Well, I think are 491 00:23:16,091 --> 00:23:20,043 always very sound old school marketing tactics 492 00:23:20,099 --> 00:23:23,737 and principles. And I think you're right. I think 493 00:23:23,851 --> 00:23:26,285 great ideas, you know, in times of uncertainty 494 00:23:26,325 --> 00:23:29,213 and distraction. So what else has come out from 495 00:23:29,309 --> 00:23:31,213 this research then? I mean what else has 496 00:23:31,269 --> 00:23:32,425 surprised you? 497 00:23:33,085 --> 00:23:37,949 Raul Galera: So and the latest report, one of the, one of the 498 00:23:37,997 --> 00:23:41,901 findings that I found more interesting is how 499 00:23:41,973 --> 00:23:44,261 brands. So you know, the report is about 500 00:23:44,453 --> 00:23:46,465 Ecommerce agencies, but at the end of the day 501 00:23:46,925 --> 00:23:49,533 their behavior depends on their customers, which 502 00:23:49,549 --> 00:23:52,705 are brands. And so you know, by asking agencies 503 00:23:53,005 --> 00:23:56,065 in extension, we're getting data points from 504 00:23:56,405 --> 00:23:58,893 hundreds of other merchants. Right. So the 505 00:23:58,909 --> 00:24:01,221 picture gets really interesting because you're 506 00:24:01,333 --> 00:24:04,621 again kind of like using agencies as a proxy, you 507 00:24:04,653 --> 00:24:08,317 can estimate how the rest of the Ecommerce world 508 00:24:08,381 --> 00:24:12,813 is doing, how brands are doing. And so one thing 509 00:24:12,829 --> 00:24:15,189 that I found really interesting in this last 510 00:24:15,237 --> 00:24:20,207 particular report is that so we always ask 511 00:24:20,311 --> 00:24:23,943 agencies what's if they've noticed any changes in 512 00:24:23,959 --> 00:24:26,343 terms of prices, price sensitivity. So when you 513 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,315 talk to customers about, you know, renewing your 514 00:24:30,575 --> 00:24:33,239 contract or negotiating retainers, whether it's a 515 00:24:33,247 --> 00:24:35,271 new customer or an existing customer or 516 00:24:35,423 --> 00:24:39,343 negotiating new services or whatever it is, how 517 00:24:39,399 --> 00:24:41,743 sensitive are these customers to these price 518 00:24:41,799 --> 00:24:45,449 changes? And that the next question that we ask 519 00:24:45,537 --> 00:24:49,297 is do you see brands more likely to hire in house 520 00:24:49,321 --> 00:24:52,761 or to outsource to agencies? And so in the latest 521 00:24:52,833 --> 00:24:57,177 report we got a spike in price sensitivity. So it 522 00:24:57,201 --> 00:24:59,329 turns out that, you know, somewhere between 523 00:24:59,417 --> 00:25:03,953 August, September, brands got more, more 524 00:25:03,969 --> 00:25:06,513 sensitive to price. So more sensitive to price 525 00:25:06,569 --> 00:25:10,019 changes. You know, it makes sense. They, you 526 00:25:10,027 --> 00:25:12,803 know, everybody's looking after their costs right 527 00:25:12,819 --> 00:25:14,907 now because of, you know, inflation. Costs are 528 00:25:14,931 --> 00:25:16,555 going up and so you want to keep everything under 529 00:25:16,595 --> 00:25:18,507 control. You're probably your CFO is, you know, 530 00:25:18,531 --> 00:25:20,123 probably questioning every single line in the 531 00:25:20,139 --> 00:25:21,947 budget, like, do we really need this? Like what's 532 00:25:21,971 --> 00:25:24,451 discharged? They recognize this. So, you know, 533 00:25:24,483 --> 00:25:27,211 it's happening in all across the board. And so 534 00:25:27,243 --> 00:25:29,571 they, they did notice a spike in price 535 00:25:29,603 --> 00:25:31,971 sensitivity, which you would think, okay, well 536 00:25:32,003 --> 00:25:35,869 then, you know, that probably means that, that 537 00:25:35,917 --> 00:25:38,997 brands are going to hire more in house. Like 538 00:25:39,021 --> 00:25:41,665 they're, they're spending less money on agencies. 539 00:25:42,205 --> 00:25:43,989 You know, if they're, if they're getting, you 540 00:25:43,997 --> 00:25:45,693 know, turned off by some of the quotes that are 541 00:25:45,709 --> 00:25:47,213 getting, that probably means that they're going 542 00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:50,653 down a different route. But when we ask that 543 00:25:50,709 --> 00:25:53,693 question about whether brands are going in house 544 00:25:53,749 --> 00:25:57,837 or outsourcing, we, we got a vast majority of 545 00:25:57,861 --> 00:25:59,789 agencies that saying that brands are outsourcing, 546 00:25:59,837 --> 00:26:01,861 that they're more likely to outsource than to go 547 00:26:01,893 --> 00:26:03,965 in house. So it's, it's kind of like a paradox, 548 00:26:04,005 --> 00:26:06,709 right? Like, so, yeah, agencies are getting more 549 00:26:06,757 --> 00:26:09,385 exp. In the eyes of brands, but brands are still 550 00:26:09,465 --> 00:26:11,177 going after them. And I think, and the 551 00:26:11,201 --> 00:26:16,425 explanation that I, that I got, which again it's, 552 00:26:16,465 --> 00:26:18,089 it's just, it's my own explanation, I don't know 553 00:26:18,097 --> 00:26:22,249 if it's, if it's correct, is that at the end of 554 00:26:22,257 --> 00:26:25,485 the day, hiring an agency has a set of 555 00:26:25,865 --> 00:26:30,129 intangibles for, for brands that make it more 556 00:26:30,177 --> 00:26:32,761 attractive than hire an employee or hiring a team 557 00:26:32,833 --> 00:26:36,963 in house. When you're hiring an agency, you're 558 00:26:36,979 --> 00:26:38,875 not only getting access to their, you know, their 559 00:26:38,915 --> 00:26:41,347 skills and their team and you know, and whatnot, 560 00:26:41,371 --> 00:26:45,375 you're getting access to their creative data and 561 00:26:45,755 --> 00:26:48,587 collective knowledge of all the brands they work 562 00:26:48,611 --> 00:26:52,307 with. So you, as a CMO of an Ecommerce brand, you 563 00:26:52,331 --> 00:26:54,883 have access to one data point, maybe a couple if 564 00:26:54,899 --> 00:26:56,523 you have, you know, people in the industry that 565 00:26:56,539 --> 00:26:58,907 you talk to. But when you're working with an 566 00:26:58,931 --> 00:27:01,541 agency and you know, you're having a, a weird 567 00:27:01,573 --> 00:27:03,589 month or weird week, you can say, hey, is this 568 00:27:03,637 --> 00:27:05,413 normal? And they can say, oh yeah, all of the 569 00:27:05,429 --> 00:27:07,549 other brands in your vertical are, you know, kind 570 00:27:07,557 --> 00:27:10,061 of seeing the same thing. Or like, hey, we're 571 00:27:10,093 --> 00:27:11,829 actually seeing some trends right now. Like, you 572 00:27:11,837 --> 00:27:14,825 know, you can have access to that collective. 573 00:27:16,365 --> 00:27:19,989 Yeah, intelligence, I would say that I feel like, 574 00:27:20,037 --> 00:27:23,933 makes it really powerful than hiring in house. 575 00:27:23,989 --> 00:27:26,421 Obviously, you know, hiring in house and versus 576 00:27:26,453 --> 00:27:28,763 an agency has. It also depends on, you know, 577 00:27:28,779 --> 00:27:30,563 what's the pricing model that the agency is going 578 00:27:30,579 --> 00:27:32,011 after. Are they taking a commission on revenue? 579 00:27:32,043 --> 00:27:36,067 Are they charging a flat fee? But, but again, I 580 00:27:36,171 --> 00:27:37,955 thought it was interesting that there's like this 581 00:27:37,995 --> 00:27:42,947 paradox of brands are going with agencies Even if 582 00:27:42,971 --> 00:27:45,363 they find them more expensive, at the end of the 583 00:27:45,379 --> 00:27:48,419 day, they're still settling for, for outsourcing 584 00:27:48,507 --> 00:27:49,855 versus going in house. 585 00:27:50,635 --> 00:27:53,307 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's fascinating, isn't it? And I get on 586 00:27:53,331 --> 00:27:56,867 one hand how that would be a paradox, you know, 587 00:27:56,931 --> 00:28:00,123 and. But on the other hand, I guess one of the 588 00:28:00,139 --> 00:28:02,219 things I am noticing is obviously ecom companies, 589 00:28:02,267 --> 00:28:03,851 they're cutting costs quite a bit. Everyone's 590 00:28:03,883 --> 00:28:06,667 becoming very cost conscious because it's. There 591 00:28:06,691 --> 00:28:08,843 has been so many price hikes. It's actually quite 592 00:28:08,899 --> 00:28:11,323 complicated now, I think, to rise. I'm not saying 593 00:28:11,339 --> 00:28:15,339 you shouldn't increase prices, but I think people 594 00:28:15,387 --> 00:28:17,451 have increased prices but still need to manage 595 00:28:17,523 --> 00:28:19,635 costs. And so they're looking in, you know, 596 00:28:19,715 --> 00:28:21,883 internally at how to do that. So I can see them 597 00:28:21,939 --> 00:28:24,427 going, actually, we spend four grand a month with 598 00:28:24,451 --> 00:28:26,531 that agency. Can we find an agency where we spend 599 00:28:26,563 --> 00:28:28,271 three grand a month and get the same output? 600 00:28:28,343 --> 00:28:31,759 Right. So I can see why people would ask that 601 00:28:31,807 --> 00:28:36,863 question. But I guess I also see how internally I 602 00:28:36,879 --> 00:28:39,719 might say, well, I need to hire two new people. 603 00:28:39,847 --> 00:28:42,647 Right. So real life example, I suppose at our 604 00:28:42,671 --> 00:28:44,527 company, I'm looking to hire two people at the 605 00:28:44,551 --> 00:28:50,215 moment. It's a very real question now to ask 606 00:28:50,255 --> 00:28:52,479 myself, well, do I actually want to hire somebody 607 00:28:52,607 --> 00:28:56,709 or can I outsource this work? Right, right. And 608 00:28:56,757 --> 00:29:00,173 so I'm, I'm looking at my own cost base and 609 00:29:00,189 --> 00:29:02,533 going, right, what do I actually do in house and 610 00:29:02,549 --> 00:29:06,445 what can I outsource? And so I can see how this 611 00:29:06,485 --> 00:29:08,997 creates this sort of paradox. I'm looking maybe 612 00:29:09,021 --> 00:29:10,957 to outsource more because I want to keep my 613 00:29:10,981 --> 00:29:13,757 internal costs down, but in outsourcing more, I'm 614 00:29:13,781 --> 00:29:16,229 going, oh, I'm not, I'm not happy with four grand 615 00:29:16,277 --> 00:29:18,725 a month, dude, I need it to be three, you know, 616 00:29:18,765 --> 00:29:22,699 that kind of thing. And I, I've seen that a lot, 617 00:29:22,827 --> 00:29:25,139 actually. I've seen that a lot. I've seen 618 00:29:25,187 --> 00:29:30,155 agencies, especially freelancers, so agencies 619 00:29:30,195 --> 00:29:32,283 where it's just maybe one or two people, you 620 00:29:32,299 --> 00:29:35,091 know, just sort of doing the ad spend and things 621 00:29:35,123 --> 00:29:39,043 like that. I, I've seen them getting squeezed by 622 00:29:39,099 --> 00:29:44,963 companies and because they are one man bands for 623 00:29:45,019 --> 00:29:47,203 better, you know, their soul. And it's just them 624 00:29:47,259 --> 00:29:49,499 really, that's why they're freelancers. It's 625 00:29:49,547 --> 00:29:54,499 really hard to. Unless you're full on with work. 626 00:29:54,547 --> 00:29:57,075 It's really hard to go, okay, I'll just drop my 627 00:29:57,115 --> 00:30:00,971 prices for you, rather than just turning around 628 00:30:01,003 --> 00:30:03,059 to them and saying, oh, well, if you don't want 629 00:30:03,067 --> 00:30:05,387 to pay, go somewhere else. It's not actually an 630 00:30:05,411 --> 00:30:06,723 easy thing. To say, is it. If you're a 631 00:30:06,739 --> 00:30:08,267 freelancer, it's easier, I suppose, if you're an 632 00:30:08,291 --> 00:30:10,747 agency, but even then everyone's a little bit 633 00:30:10,771 --> 00:30:12,643 twitchy at the moment. So again, coming back to 634 00:30:12,659 --> 00:30:16,155 your uncertainty observation, I think that's 635 00:30:16,195 --> 00:30:18,731 interesting. I do think that's interesting. I'm 636 00:30:18,763 --> 00:30:19,947 kind of. Go ahead. 637 00:30:20,051 --> 00:30:21,587 Raul Galera: I was gonna say, I think it also has to do maybe 638 00:30:21,611 --> 00:30:23,835 with the learning curve. Curve. Because 639 00:30:23,955 --> 00:30:25,819 especially at this time of the month. Sorry, at 640 00:30:25,827 --> 00:30:29,531 this time of the year, if you are in that 641 00:30:29,563 --> 00:30:31,867 position and you're an ecommerce brand, you know 642 00:30:31,891 --> 00:30:33,547 that hiring an employee, you're probably not 643 00:30:33,571 --> 00:30:35,483 gonna see any results anytime soon. Cause they 644 00:30:35,499 --> 00:30:38,695 need time to ramp up. Agencies need it too. But 645 00:30:38,995 --> 00:30:43,447 agencies usually come with SOPs and they're ready 646 00:30:43,471 --> 00:30:46,247 to deploy almost because it's for them. It's sort 647 00:30:46,271 --> 00:30:49,263 of like, this is literally my everyday. This is 648 00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:50,711 literally what I do every single day. Like 649 00:30:50,743 --> 00:30:52,735 you're, you know, you as a brand, you're probably 650 00:30:52,775 --> 00:30:54,799 not that different from the 15 other brands that 651 00:30:54,807 --> 00:30:58,367 I work with. So maybe that, that speed factor 652 00:30:58,431 --> 00:31:02,655 might be an aspect that brands value over hiring 653 00:31:02,695 --> 00:31:03,475 in house. 654 00:31:04,815 --> 00:31:07,119 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, it's an interesting one. I was going to 655 00:31:07,127 --> 00:31:12,205 say, I'm kind of, I'm curious also whether 656 00:31:12,325 --> 00:31:15,693 actually the traditional agency model that we've 657 00:31:15,749 --> 00:31:19,293 experienced the last few years, whether that 658 00:31:19,349 --> 00:31:21,469 actually needs to change as well. I appreciate 659 00:31:21,517 --> 00:31:23,545 this is a much deeper conversation. 660 00:31:24,805 --> 00:31:25,221 Raul Galera: Yep. 661 00:31:25,253 --> 00:31:28,197 Matt Edmundson: Than what we're thinking, but I, I've not. We 662 00:31:28,221 --> 00:31:32,381 have an agency, right. A media agency. And we 663 00:31:32,453 --> 00:31:34,205 went down the traditional route of this is our 664 00:31:34,245 --> 00:31:35,893 service, this is our retainer. You pay the 665 00:31:35,909 --> 00:31:38,201 retainer, we do the service. The problem I think 666 00:31:38,233 --> 00:31:40,545 people have got is, and this is my experience in 667 00:31:40,585 --> 00:31:44,525 using agency, is that when you go to an agency, 668 00:31:44,985 --> 00:31:47,265 you get a great service at the start. But if that 669 00:31:47,345 --> 00:31:49,049 agency is good, they're going to grow, they're 670 00:31:49,057 --> 00:31:50,697 going to get more clients, and the people that 671 00:31:50,721 --> 00:31:52,561 are good for you are now going to be good for 672 00:31:52,593 --> 00:31:55,137 three people, four people. And so the quality of 673 00:31:55,161 --> 00:31:57,825 work for you gets less and less, the feedback 674 00:31:57,865 --> 00:31:59,657 gets less and less, you get annoyed and then you 675 00:31:59,681 --> 00:32:01,353 end up going to another agency and the whole 676 00:32:01,409 --> 00:32:04,539 process repeats itself. One of the things that 677 00:32:04,627 --> 00:32:08,955 we've done, and I can't give you any hard data 678 00:32:08,995 --> 00:32:10,755 yet, Raul, I'm not going to lie because I just 679 00:32:10,795 --> 00:32:13,115 don't know. I'm intrigued to see the results with 680 00:32:13,155 --> 00:32:15,835 one of our agencies is we have gone to the market 681 00:32:15,875 --> 00:32:17,547 and we've said, right, listen, this is the work 682 00:32:17,571 --> 00:32:21,135 that we're going to do. This is the fee for that 683 00:32:21,435 --> 00:32:24,467 but at the end of a predefined period, which in 684 00:32:24,571 --> 00:32:29,213 this particular industry is going to be, I think 685 00:32:29,269 --> 00:32:33,333 about five months, at the end of those five 686 00:32:33,389 --> 00:32:35,533 months, your staff will be trained on our 687 00:32:35,589 --> 00:32:38,605 processes and we'll be able to do a chunk of the 688 00:32:38,645 --> 00:32:43,077 work. So we will help you get up and running and 689 00:32:43,101 --> 00:32:44,909 we will train your staff. Now if you don't have 690 00:32:44,957 --> 00:32:46,997 staff, we will carry on doing the work for you 691 00:32:47,021 --> 00:32:49,261 under the traditional retainer model. But if you 692 00:32:49,293 --> 00:32:52,229 do, we will train them and we will move from 693 00:32:52,317 --> 00:32:55,545 doing the everyday work into a much more sort of 694 00:32:55,585 --> 00:32:58,633 consultative coaching role to make sure the staff 695 00:32:58,689 --> 00:33:02,057 stay on top of things and, and go forward. The 696 00:33:02,081 --> 00:33:04,129 initial response to that actually has been really 697 00:33:04,177 --> 00:33:06,969 positive. But like I say, it's all anecdotal at 698 00:33:06,977 --> 00:33:09,617 the moment. And so part of me wonders in the 699 00:33:09,641 --> 00:33:12,113 midst of all of this, whether the agencies which 700 00:33:12,169 --> 00:33:14,905 change their models to whatever it is, maybe 701 00:33:14,945 --> 00:33:16,365 could find a way to win. 702 00:33:18,825 --> 00:33:21,685 Raul Galera: Yeah, I've, I actually had a similar discussion 703 00:33:22,095 --> 00:33:25,195 last week with Jordan West. 704 00:33:25,935 --> 00:33:28,655 Matt Edmundson: I know Jordan, he's a legend. He has been on the 705 00:33:28,695 --> 00:33:28,991 show. 706 00:33:29,063 --> 00:33:33,223 Raul Galera: Yes. Oh yeah, I saw, I saw actually so, and you 707 00:33:33,239 --> 00:33:35,727 know, he, he mentioned actually so I was on, in 708 00:33:35,751 --> 00:33:38,095 his podcast and I was asking him so many 709 00:33:38,135 --> 00:33:39,927 questions that at some point I felt like I was 710 00:33:39,951 --> 00:33:45,863 the, the host. But, but one of the, one of the, 711 00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:48,399 so we were talking about this particular question 712 00:33:48,447 --> 00:33:51,471 about the retainers and the in house versus 713 00:33:51,543 --> 00:33:56,191 outsourcing. He mentioned that, that agencies, 714 00:33:56,343 --> 00:34:00,215 when they do like a, like a kind of performance 715 00:34:00,295 --> 00:34:02,271 based or like, you know, revenue based type of, 716 00:34:02,303 --> 00:34:04,143 you know, get a commission on the revenue Lyft or 717 00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:07,991 something like that, that at some point if you do 718 00:34:08,023 --> 00:34:10,879 too well, it will get you fire as an agency. 719 00:34:10,967 --> 00:34:11,455 Matt Edmundson: Yes. 720 00:34:11,535 --> 00:34:14,019 Raul Galera: Because you'll have the CFO saying, wait a 721 00:34:14,027 --> 00:34:18,187 minute, 30k. Like, oh sure, you know, we made, 722 00:34:18,291 --> 00:34:21,003 you know, I don't know if these were the numbers 723 00:34:21,019 --> 00:34:23,059 that he mentioned. I'm sure it was just like, you 724 00:34:23,067 --> 00:34:26,243 know, kind of just relatively figures. But you 725 00:34:26,259 --> 00:34:29,059 know, if you make a brand generate a million 726 00:34:29,107 --> 00:34:33,435 dollars and you get 30k out of it, 3%, sure. 727 00:34:33,595 --> 00:34:36,347 Great. You know, you've, you've made the brand 728 00:34:36,531 --> 00:34:39,821 get a million dollars in revenue, but they're 729 00:34:39,853 --> 00:34:44,013 going to see a 30k bill and the CFO in question 730 00:34:44,069 --> 00:34:48,093 is going to say, wait a minute, do we really need 731 00:34:48,109 --> 00:34:50,917 to spend 30k on this? Because obviously. And 732 00:34:50,941 --> 00:34:52,397 again, it's the same thing that we were talking 733 00:34:52,421 --> 00:34:54,773 about earlier. In hindsight it looks pretty easy. 734 00:34:54,829 --> 00:34:57,261 It's like, oh, okay, well this agency got it for 735 00:34:57,293 --> 00:35:00,069 30. There's gotta be an agency that maybe gets a 736 00:35:00,077 --> 00:35:01,869 little bit less, but we pay a lot less. Right. 737 00:35:01,957 --> 00:35:04,429 And so, and I feel like that's a raw mentality, 738 00:35:04,477 --> 00:35:06,963 but at the end of the day in a company, you have 739 00:35:06,979 --> 00:35:10,459 a ton of different stakeholders. The CFO has one 740 00:35:10,507 --> 00:35:14,043 job and you know, and it's, it's also, you know, 741 00:35:14,059 --> 00:35:17,995 I think it's also the CMO or the CEO job of 742 00:35:18,035 --> 00:35:20,731 saying, no, no, no, you know, we, we need us, 743 00:35:20,763 --> 00:35:22,667 we're not. We wouldn't be able to get where we 744 00:35:22,691 --> 00:35:25,003 are. But again, in hindsight, it always makes it 745 00:35:25,019 --> 00:35:27,811 a little bit more difficult to see. But yeah, 746 00:35:27,843 --> 00:35:30,299 that's so, you know, answering your question, I 747 00:35:30,307 --> 00:35:33,399 don't know, I don't know what's the ideal pricing 748 00:35:33,447 --> 00:35:36,863 model when again even like what it could be 749 00:35:36,879 --> 00:35:39,435 considered like the most fair type of approach, 750 00:35:40,495 --> 00:35:42,463 you know, can also. And you know, we've seen our 751 00:35:42,479 --> 00:35:43,983 referral candy too. I mean, referral candy, we 752 00:35:43,999 --> 00:35:46,983 take a commission on refer purchases. So on the 753 00:35:46,999 --> 00:35:49,367 revenue that the referral program generates. 754 00:35:49,511 --> 00:35:51,647 Yeah. At some point we get questions. At some 755 00:35:51,671 --> 00:35:55,487 point it's, you know, when we are able to help a 756 00:35:55,511 --> 00:35:58,415 brand get to a certain size in the referral 757 00:35:58,455 --> 00:36:01,923 program, some of them have question of like, 758 00:36:01,939 --> 00:36:05,415 well, whether, you know, I'm paying a lot. Like, 759 00:36:05,755 --> 00:36:08,931 you can prove what you've generated, but the bill 760 00:36:08,963 --> 00:36:12,979 is there, the invoice is there. And so I can see 761 00:36:13,027 --> 00:36:17,455 how it can generate that kind of situation. 762 00:36:18,075 --> 00:36:19,883 Whether it's a brand talking to an agency or a 763 00:36:19,899 --> 00:36:21,415 brand talking to an app. 764 00:36:21,755 --> 00:36:24,083 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely. It's really fascinating, isn't 765 00:36:24,099 --> 00:36:26,187 it? I mean, the whole thing just. And if you're 766 00:36:26,211 --> 00:36:27,931 listening to this and you're an Ecommerce owner, 767 00:36:27,963 --> 00:36:32,573 then, and you know, having sat on both sides of 768 00:36:32,589 --> 00:36:35,845 the fence, having been and still running agency 769 00:36:35,885 --> 00:36:37,885 and having been and still running my own 770 00:36:37,925 --> 00:36:40,109 Ecommerce businesses, I get to see it from both 771 00:36:40,157 --> 00:36:45,077 sides. I really do. And I think that I would 772 00:36:45,101 --> 00:36:47,117 just. Probably the best advice I could give you 773 00:36:47,141 --> 00:36:49,845 is just communicate well and ask lots of 774 00:36:49,885 --> 00:36:52,245 questions. Don't let the anger and resentment 775 00:36:52,285 --> 00:36:55,189 build up, have the conversations early. And I 776 00:36:55,197 --> 00:36:59,045 think agencies are learning more now to adapt to 777 00:36:59,085 --> 00:37:01,745 that and I think it's an important thing to do. 778 00:37:02,525 --> 00:37:04,365 And of course, I mean, you mentioned Jordan West. 779 00:37:04,405 --> 00:37:06,221 He was on the show. We were talking about TikTok 780 00:37:06,253 --> 00:37:11,237 shops and he was on the show, I think, back in 781 00:37:11,301 --> 00:37:12,941 May, if you want to check out that episode, Dear 782 00:37:12,973 --> 00:37:16,797 Listener, it was a great episode. He's again such 783 00:37:16,821 --> 00:37:18,461 a legend. He and I are on WhatsApp all the time, 784 00:37:18,493 --> 00:37:21,767 just chatting away. He's such A good guy. So I'm 785 00:37:21,791 --> 00:37:23,647 curious to hear that conversation you had with 786 00:37:23,671 --> 00:37:26,023 him. If I'm honest with you, Raul, I'm going to 787 00:37:26,039 --> 00:37:30,559 listen to that one. Speaking of questions. Right. 788 00:37:30,687 --> 00:37:32,663 One of the things I like to do in the show, which 789 00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:35,743 I say like to do is a more recent thing that 790 00:37:35,759 --> 00:37:39,383 we've been doing is ask a guest for a question. 791 00:37:39,439 --> 00:37:41,223 For me, this is where I ask you for a guest. I'm 792 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:42,647 not going to answer it now. I'm going to answer 793 00:37:42,671 --> 00:37:45,255 it on my social media platforms. So this is my 794 00:37:45,295 --> 00:37:47,709 little trick, my little come and join me on 795 00:37:47,757 --> 00:37:50,965 social media thing for you, dear listener. Raul, 796 00:37:51,005 --> 00:37:52,025 what's the question? 797 00:37:52,925 --> 00:37:55,853 Raul Galera: Well, we kind of talked about it earlier, but I 798 00:37:55,869 --> 00:38:00,341 want to get your full answer on this. How do you 799 00:38:00,373 --> 00:38:04,265 see the US elections affecting Q4 sales? 800 00:38:05,085 --> 00:38:07,741 Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. If you want to know how I see the US 801 00:38:07,813 --> 00:38:11,565 election affecting Q4 sales, then come join me on 802 00:38:11,605 --> 00:38:13,821 social media. You can find me at edmondson, both 803 00:38:13,853 --> 00:38:16,317 on LinkedIn and Instagram and I'll be posting the 804 00:38:16,341 --> 00:38:18,493 answer to that and the other questions I've been 805 00:38:18,509 --> 00:38:22,269 asked soon. So, yeah, do come, follow me. Well, 806 00:38:22,357 --> 00:38:24,597 anything else in closing? I mean you've, you put 807 00:38:24,621 --> 00:38:27,221 this together every month. Is there anything else 808 00:38:27,253 --> 00:38:29,333 in the data which you found, which you've kind of 809 00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:31,345 gone, that's a little bit surprising? 810 00:38:32,165 --> 00:38:35,501 Raul Galera: I don't know if it's surprising, but it's just 811 00:38:35,533 --> 00:38:39,181 something I like and that. So the last question 812 00:38:39,213 --> 00:38:42,073 that I ask, the last two questions that I ask 813 00:38:42,169 --> 00:38:45,169 agency owners are, you know, how you see your 814 00:38:45,217 --> 00:38:46,961 agency's revenue looking like in the next six 815 00:38:46,993 --> 00:38:48,513 months. And then also how do you see 816 00:38:48,569 --> 00:38:50,873 opportunities in the Ecommerce world looking like 817 00:38:50,889 --> 00:38:52,953 in the next six months? So it's more like, you 818 00:38:52,969 --> 00:38:54,553 know, just let's predict the future, right? Like, 819 00:38:54,569 --> 00:38:57,217 how do you see it working? And you know, even 820 00:38:57,241 --> 00:39:01,265 when we were having like months with like, like 821 00:39:01,345 --> 00:39:04,281 negative responses on marketing budgets, on price 822 00:39:04,313 --> 00:39:08,449 sensitivity, on you know, on different, like 823 00:39:08,497 --> 00:39:10,689 different aspects that we ask agency owners, 824 00:39:10,857 --> 00:39:14,097 those answers were always positive. The answer is 825 00:39:14,161 --> 00:39:17,745 kind of, what's the outlook? You know, it does 826 00:39:17,785 --> 00:39:20,705 not surprise me. And I've talked to a few people 827 00:39:20,745 --> 00:39:22,209 about it and they say, oh yeah, like, you know, I 828 00:39:22,217 --> 00:39:24,705 mean, and you know, the majority of our owners 829 00:39:24,745 --> 00:39:26,713 are entrepreneurs. They have to be positive. 830 00:39:26,769 --> 00:39:28,641 Matt Edmundson: I mean, it's got to be optimistic. 831 00:39:28,713 --> 00:39:30,217 Raul Galera: Exactly, exactly. So that's something I 832 00:39:30,241 --> 00:39:32,409 particularly love. And so again we, you know, 833 00:39:32,457 --> 00:39:35,299 this, this month was no difference. I asked, you 834 00:39:35,307 --> 00:39:36,715 know, how do you see the US Elections playing 835 00:39:36,755 --> 00:39:39,095 out? How you see, again, we talked about the 836 00:39:39,795 --> 00:39:42,427 marketing, but marketing budgets were up, but 837 00:39:42,451 --> 00:39:43,875 because of Black Fridays every Monday 838 00:39:43,915 --> 00:39:46,211 preparation. But again we talked about price 839 00:39:46,243 --> 00:39:49,659 sensitivity and all that and. Yeah, but how do 840 00:39:49,667 --> 00:39:52,147 you see everything looking like in six months? Oh 841 00:39:52,171 --> 00:39:54,867 no, it's amazing. So I mean I love it. I mean 842 00:39:54,891 --> 00:39:59,275 it's. And to be honest with you I'll be worried 843 00:39:59,395 --> 00:40:02,821 the day that I see negative outlook in that. 844 00:40:02,893 --> 00:40:04,653 Matt Edmundson: That's true. Yeah. Because then you know you've 845 00:40:04,669 --> 00:40:06,773 got, if the entrepreneurs are downbeat you've got 846 00:40:06,789 --> 00:40:09,829 a real problem, haven't you? Yeah. I think that 847 00:40:09,877 --> 00:40:12,061 there is a blind optimism, isn't there with 848 00:40:12,093 --> 00:40:13,933 entrepreneurs And I actually quite like that 849 00:40:13,989 --> 00:40:16,757 because you need people who go no we, this is 850 00:40:16,781 --> 00:40:18,997 going to turn around, we can, we can do something 851 00:40:19,061 --> 00:40:20,997 here, there's opportunity for us, let's go take 852 00:40:21,021 --> 00:40:23,085 the hill. When everything around them is 853 00:40:23,125 --> 00:40:26,065 collapsing, you know and there's something quite 854 00:40:27,255 --> 00:40:34,383 magical if not self denial about that. It's one 855 00:40:34,399 --> 00:40:37,471 of those and I think you need people around you 856 00:40:37,503 --> 00:40:39,319 like that. And agency owners especially and I 857 00:40:39,327 --> 00:40:42,359 think Ecommerce entrepreneurs cut from the same 858 00:40:42,407 --> 00:40:46,407 cloth when you talk to an agency, if I go and 859 00:40:46,431 --> 00:40:49,551 talk to an adwords agency, give them my account 860 00:40:49,623 --> 00:40:51,407 details, they're going to look at that and go 861 00:40:51,431 --> 00:40:54,249 man, we can totally kill this for you. Right? 862 00:40:54,417 --> 00:40:56,225 They're going to say, they're going to say that 863 00:40:56,265 --> 00:40:57,617 because that's what they're going to say because 864 00:40:57,641 --> 00:40:59,393 that's what they actually believe and think if 865 00:40:59,409 --> 00:41:03,965 they didn't, oh mate, we can't beat that. Or may. 866 00:41:04,545 --> 00:41:06,593 It's just downhill from, for you from here, isn't 867 00:41:06,609 --> 00:41:09,673 it? It's that kind of actually you need that, 868 00:41:09,849 --> 00:41:15,697 that sense of positivity. The danger of course is 869 00:41:15,801 --> 00:41:20,297 you oversell and under deliver and you get caught 870 00:41:20,321 --> 00:41:23,025 up in that excitement, don't you? And so I think 871 00:41:23,065 --> 00:41:26,321 as Ecommerce entrepreneurs we, I listen to agency 872 00:41:26,353 --> 00:41:29,001 owners and I'm like, I just need to filter what 873 00:41:29,033 --> 00:41:30,625 they're saying because they're passionate, 874 00:41:30,665 --> 00:41:33,745 they're excited and then there's a reality of 875 00:41:33,785 --> 00:41:34,321 life. 876 00:41:34,473 --> 00:41:40,673 Raul Galera: Yeah, yeah. I mean you're, you know, you're, 877 00:41:40,849 --> 00:41:46,297 you're selling and I do a lot of sales calls, 878 00:41:46,401 --> 00:41:49,073 referral candies. So like if you're, if you're an 879 00:41:49,089 --> 00:41:51,033 Ecommerce store and you request a demo, there's a 880 00:41:51,049 --> 00:41:52,817 chance that I'll be the one that's on the other 881 00:41:52,841 --> 00:41:55,873 side of the screen and you know, you, and you 882 00:41:55,889 --> 00:41:58,297 gotta, I mean you gotta believe in what you're 883 00:41:58,321 --> 00:41:58,825 selling. 884 00:41:58,945 --> 00:41:59,417 Matt Edmundson: Yeah. 885 00:41:59,521 --> 00:42:01,201 Raul Galera: You gotta believe in what you're, what you're 886 00:42:01,233 --> 00:42:02,833 capable of doing, you know, whether it's an 887 00:42:02,849 --> 00:42:05,937 agency or an app. So I totally get that. And you 888 00:42:05,961 --> 00:42:07,473 gotta have that optimism. 889 00:42:07,649 --> 00:42:11,673 Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, you do now. I love it, Love it. Well, 890 00:42:11,729 --> 00:42:13,929 listen, man, if people want to reach out to you, 891 00:42:13,977 --> 00:42:15,169 I mean, you've mentioned it at the start of the 892 00:42:15,177 --> 00:42:16,657 show, but let's talk about it again now. If 893 00:42:16,681 --> 00:42:18,081 people want to reach out to you, if they want to 894 00:42:18,113 --> 00:42:19,745 connect with you, what's the best way to do? 895 00:42:19,905 --> 00:42:21,569 Raul Galera: If they want to email me, it's 896 00:42:21,657 --> 00:42:24,857 raul"referralcandy.com and if they want to check 897 00:42:24,881 --> 00:42:29,481 out the report, that's referralcandy.com/eaci, 898 00:42:29,553 --> 00:42:32,721 which stands for Ecommerce Agency Conference 899 00:42:32,753 --> 00:42:33,369 Index. 900 00:42:33,537 --> 00:42:35,761 Matt Edmundson: Yep. And do check it out. I mean, I've read 901 00:42:35,793 --> 00:42:37,665 through the September report is very, very 902 00:42:37,705 --> 00:42:38,605 insightful. 903 00:42:38,945 --> 00:42:39,529 Raul Galera: Thank you. 904 00:42:39,617 --> 00:42:41,977 Matt Edmundson: And yeah, really, really well put together 905 00:42:42,041 --> 00:42:44,057 documents. So do sign up for that. Do go and get 906 00:42:44,081 --> 00:42:47,907 that. It is free to access, so go check that out. 907 00:42:47,931 --> 00:42:49,283 And of course, do connect with Raul if you've got 908 00:42:49,299 --> 00:42:51,195 any questions, even if it's just to say hello, 909 00:42:51,355 --> 00:42:54,219 I'm sure Raul would love to hear from you. And of 910 00:42:54,227 --> 00:42:56,747 course we will link to everything that Raul has 911 00:42:56,771 --> 00:43:00,363 given us in the show notes as well, which you can 912 00:43:00,379 --> 00:43:02,923 get with the transcript and all that sort of good 913 00:43:02,939 --> 00:43:04,299 stuff. You can get it on the website 914 00:43:04,347 --> 00:43:07,467 ecommercepodcast.net and of course, like I say, 915 00:43:07,531 --> 00:43:09,131 you can get it in the show notes to scroll down 916 00:43:09,163 --> 00:43:10,627 on your app. And if you sign up to the 917 00:43:10,651 --> 00:43:13,689 newsletter, that'll be coming to you anyway, just 918 00:43:13,737 --> 00:43:16,393 automagically. Well, listen, man, it's good to 919 00:43:16,409 --> 00:43:20,361 see you again and good to chat again. We should 920 00:43:20,393 --> 00:43:21,369 do this more often. 921 00:43:21,497 --> 00:43:24,569 Raul Galera: Definitely not every three years. Probably in a 922 00:43:24,577 --> 00:43:25,325 few months. 923 00:43:26,945 --> 00:43:28,705 Matt Edmundson: Maybe let's get you on sooner next time. 924 00:43:28,785 --> 00:43:29,209 Raul Galera: Sounds good. 925 00:43:29,257 --> 00:43:31,321 Matt Edmundson: But genuinely, thanks for coming on, man. Really 926 00:43:31,353 --> 00:43:33,001 appreciate it. Thanks for sharing the insights 927 00:43:33,033 --> 00:43:35,753 and love what you guys are doing and thanks for 928 00:43:35,769 --> 00:43:37,609 putting it out there. Thanks for making it free 929 00:43:37,697 --> 00:43:39,801 for people like me to get some insights. Really 930 00:43:39,833 --> 00:43:40,591 appreciate it. 931 00:43:40,713 --> 00:43:42,775 Raul Galera: Yeah, thank you. And thanks for having me again. 932 00:43:43,075 --> 00:43:46,715 Matt Edmundson: No worries. What a great conversation. Huge 933 00:43:46,755 --> 00:43:50,003 thanks again to Raul for joining me today. Now be 934 00:43:50,019 --> 00:43:52,187 sure to follow the Ecommerce podcast wherever you 935 00:43:52,211 --> 00:43:54,067 get your podcasts from because we've got some 936 00:43:54,091 --> 00:43:57,811 more great conversations lined up and I of course 937 00:43:58,003 --> 00:44:00,115 don't want you to miss any of them. Why would I? 938 00:44:00,155 --> 00:44:02,675 I wouldn't. And in case no one has told you yet 939 00:44:02,715 --> 00:44:05,451 today, let me be the first. You are awesome. Yes. 940 00:44:05,483 --> 00:44:08,677 You are created awesome. It's just a burden you 941 00:44:08,701 --> 00:44:10,653 have to bear. Raul's got to bear it. I've got to 942 00:44:10,669 --> 00:44:12,661 bear it. You've got to bear it as well. 943 00:44:12,733 --> 00:44:12,917 Raul Galera: Now. 944 00:44:12,941 --> 00:44:16,005 Matt Edmundson: The Ecommerce Podcast is produced by podjunction. 945 00:44:16,045 --> 00:44:18,461 You can find our entire archive of episodes on 946 00:44:18,493 --> 00:44:21,245 your favorite podcast app. The team that makes 947 00:44:21,285 --> 00:44:23,773 this show possible is Sadaf Baynon and Tanya 948 00:44:23,869 --> 00:44:26,749 Hutsuliak. Our theme music was written by Josh 949 00:44:26,797 --> 00:44:28,933 Edmundson, and as I mentioned, if you'd like to 950 00:44:28,949 --> 00:44:30,813 read the transcript or show notes, simply head 951 00:44:30,829 --> 00:44:33,807 over to the website ecommercepodcast.net where 952 00:44:33,831 --> 00:44:35,903 you can sign up for the weekly newsletter and all 953 00:44:35,919 --> 00:44:37,703 of the good stuff gets delivered straight to your 954 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,799 inbox. Totally for free. But that's it from me. 955 00:44:40,887 --> 00:44:42,847 That's it from Raul. Thank you so much for 956 00:44:42,871 --> 00:44:45,023 joining us. Have a fantastic week wherever you 957 00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:47,543 are in the world. I will see you next time. Bye 958 00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:48,275 for now. 959 00:44:57,995 --> 00:44:58,235 Raul Galera: SA.