Hi Hannah. Welcome to What's Your Next Podcast.

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

So happy to have you here. Tell us a little bit about yourself.

So I'm Hannah Brom. I'm a neuroscientist by training, but also a Romans writer. And my debut novel, love and other Brand Experiments just came out two weeks ago as of now. Yeah,

and it's.

very excited to talk about it here.

Yes. I guess Chloe and other experiments married to both your academic background and your professional background and your romance and put them in a place. You get a little bit of both so talk to us about neuros, new neuro scientist. I learned a lot about it from your book that was like, it's a newer feel. It's on, it's a lot of unknown, a lot of new things are learning. What is your area of specialty and. What's your, like how much of a real life was in the academia experience?

Yeah. Yeah, so I did my. PhD in cognitive neuroscience, which is the kind of area of specialty that the book is also mostly set in. So this means that it's like the, over, like the intersection between like psychology and human neuroscience to a big part. So it's mostly looking at how things happen or like how things function in the human brain supporting our cognitive function such as. Vision, memory attention, all of that. And in my particular focus was actually memory, which is something that we see come back in the book. So in that regard, I took what I was very familiar with and embedded the story in that context. So what in the book, it's not that this is exactly my research, the one that the characters do, but it is very close to the literature. I would've been reading for my PhD.

Oh my gosh, I love this. Yeah, I'm familiar with the neuroplasticity about your brain and I come from a history of trauma and so a lot of it. We've done a lot of psychology, different terms of therapy to actually change the chemistry equipment and like to heal it. And so it's fascinating to see how powerful the brain is and how much memory and all the different functions that it does, especially with the cognitive behavioral, the cognitive, and the actual like physical position It

How that is linked. Yeah, for sure.

France, like her, even just saying using video games, like using actual, like opportunities to see science is not, doesn't have to be so dry. It can actually be interactive and it's a really fun way to see that part. So as someone who had no experience with neuroscience, I thought that this was a great introduction before.

Okay that's great for me. Actually, one of the parts that I always enjoyed in the kind of like scientific field was as part of my PhD, I had to do quite a little bit of teaching as well, like seminars with like undergrad and graduate. Students as well, and I always really enjoy trying to break down the kind of concepts or like the things that we do and figure out how to make people understand them. Because I feel like that's a part of on the one hand, obviously there's the science, but it's also really important to be able to communicate that and to make sure that people understand what it actually is that we are doing and for what purpose we are doing that. So that was one of the things that I found really important to embed into the book as well, because I thought it was such a great medium. Apart from me being like a huge fan of romances and wanting to write like a Romans book to somehow bring that in. So I'm really happy to hear that you found that interesting and Yeah.

The other aspect share, and I read another book from another academic. It's, I think it's like an academic affair. We're gonna talk about like young academia, the academia and how tiring, how hard it is for young doctorate postdoc. And not just in the academic field, like in the English in that book, but here in the science field, which is you're suppo you're thinking like, oh my gosh, that's your more mobility. And we see Francis, jump around lab to lab, trying to find grants, trying to find money, networking. So academia is a really, it's a really grueling process.

I think it can, I think there are definitely, I would say maybe for Francis, I took really like the part where she is really determined to find the place where she can do exactly her research and really focus on her questions. I think there are ways maybe to compromise in certain ways so you don't have to hop around that much. That being said, even then there are like a lot of, there's a lot of job instability and so on. I do think I maybe took the kind of worst case scenario for her to really punch in that story. And because I was also curious to write a little bit more and explore a little bit more what that would do to a person. So I think there may be. More of like success stories or like people that haven't had to move around quite as much as she did, but for sure it exists. And I also read an academic affair and yeah. I also saw in there okay there seem to be, we seem to be quite a few authors like looking at the conditions that academia places on young academics and taking these as a source for Roman stories. Yeah.

So I love Francis and Lewis. They've known each other for quite some time in their postdoc world, but they have been pen pals. They're not, and they're, they have some animosity, there's some issues that happened as there were pen pals. And by chance, Francis gets placed next to him in the airplane, in our airplane going to the seminar and they realize, oh my gosh, we actually is, do we get a little bit hidden identity? But then we have this sense of no, we actually have something in common,

Yeah.

the make you, and at the same time, because who would've thought that person thing you hated the most, you'll be sitting next to it and a trans language. So talk to us about your Roma's journey. What got you, how did you get started? Yeah.

Yes. So maybe, I can, I could probably go back a long time that I've always been a very big reader growing up. Also as a teenager I used to read a lot of ya, contemporary Romans as well then. All also fantasy, all sorts of things. And I used to write a lot as a teenager as well. So then I wrote mostly vampire stories. So that was the Twilight era. But even back then, I feel like I, even though it was more the YA age focus, I was already very much into Romans and I, there were a few books that I read them like Samsara, Deon for the first time and also Anna and The French Kiss by Stephanie Perkins. There were a few books there that I, that really. They gripped me and they made me feel like butterflies and everything. So I was like, wow, this is what books can be like. That's so cool. So I was always, I would say into stories that had. At least a love story, if not an actual Romans, like with a happily ever after in them. But then when I went to university, so I was interested in the writing, but I also wanted to study something else. I was interested in a lot of other things. And then I gave up the writing for a bit. My reading slowed down quite a bit as well, but I still kept on reading. And then at some point, I think just after maybe a year or so after the Hating Game came out by Sally Thorn. I discovered that and then I was like, oh, actually there seems to be like adult Romans is also like a super fun genre. Then I feel like it started booming around then also with Christina Lauren and other authors. So I started picking up more of those books. And that was around the time that I was in grad school and then COVID hit and so on. So it, I think it was on the one hand discovering that world of books and at the same time our world being like slowing down with COVID not being able to go outside. A lot of instability in that sense. I was in grad school not having the best time because it was very challenging. And then my then boyfriend when I married, he moved abroad because he's also an academic. And we had a long distance relationship. So he was in the us I was in the Netherlands. And then Romans became this kind of safe space to be like, or maybe not everything is good, but you know that it's gonna turn out fine no matter, like the challenges and so on. And then I was reading a few workplace romances around the time, the Ex Talk by Rachel Lynn Solomon was one of the. Big ones that I picked up, I think just after it was released as well. The Spanish Love Deception by Elena Armas that I loved when she self I still love it, but she self-published it also that weekend. So I picked up these two books, more or less, back to back. And when I finished reading them, I was thinking like, oh, it's cool to have these protagonists, face several challenges in their lives be really embedded in their world, in their life. Work context in that kind of world and learn a little bit about that in that regard as well, while having this fun story around it. And then I started thinking, okay, that could be cool maybe to play around in my head how I would set a story in the world that I know, which is stem, academia, neuroscience, and how, where I could see opportunities for a meet. Cute. There maybe yeah, just a love story that might be a little bit more complicated because you don't know. Who you're running into and around that same time, I was also actually working on an academic paper and I was going through the pro process that Francis also talks about, which is that you submit your research findings to a journal and then you get anonymous feedback from other researchers. And I got a lot of feedback and not. All of it was great. Actually most of it, usually you only get constructive feedback in the best case, sometimes quite like mean comments. That's the norm. And while I was going through that and coming up with answers to that, I was then also figuring out, okay, what if this person that is like really mean to you in, that kind of feedback? What if you ended up. Of like randomly meeting them somewhere and they were actually quite a nice person. Because, but you don't know that it's this person. So that's somehow how I then got the idea and started started writing Love another brain experiments at, in its like very first draft stage. So it, it took a long journey since then, but that's more or less how it

And how do you juggle both, like having the career, having the postdoc like. That, world that is definitely grueling and it's just intense. And then having the time to write and also be well read,

Yeah.

the genre, you have to, you have to read the genre or read other Jo other books to get a better sense, how do you juggle it all?

Yeah. So I have to say at the moment, I'm more focusing on the writing, but until just a little bit ago, like what I was mostly while I was writing Love and other brain experiments and going through a lot of the edits as well. On the one hand it just took me a long time. I think, in general, I feel like going from the first draft to then get it query ready, get an agent, because I was going through all of these steps as well before we sold the book. 'cause it's my debut, right? That in general. It takes a lot of time and if you are lucky in a way, you might land an agent and a book deal on the first try, but sometimes you don't. So that anyways already took some time. But I also feel like there were time periods in between where I was working much less on the book because I had to finish writing my thesis or because there was a very intense time at the lab. But in general. The way I pushed forward was, on the one hand, the reading was always something I wanted to do because it gave me like a way to switch off at the end of the day. Some kind of comfort. Just, it's it has become part of my routine ever since I can remember. So that's something that is feel, feels like automatic even. Even though sometimes I read less than other times, obviously. But the reading the writing became like that as well at some point. Just having. The book to go to and taking. Situations from my academic context, figuring out how they could fit into that story, but then having the control over them, knowing that I could either make fun of them or turn them into a lighter situation or acute situation or something like that, was in a way also really helpful with like mental health during grad school. So I think that was actually one of the ways in which I managed to do it next to it because it became a source of comfort in a way as well. So not just the reading Romans, but also the writing Romans. Yeah, so it drew me to it. I think that was the most helpful part, actually.

I feel like it can be cathartic. Like it can just be like you are able to control something. Because a lot of times academia I went through grueling grad work not in stem, in another field. And even just working in academia it's. There's so much you cannot control. There's so much that's out of your control. And so having writing, creating this world, having, being able to have the ultimate say or what the characters, maybe the characters will tell you, we wanna do this. And you're like, okay, maybe But I'm gonna, I'm gonna put you a, I'm gonna put you through a ringer. Can feel very healing in that sense and can feel very, like actually see it and problem solve it in ways.

Definitely. I feel like it's prob that's probably not unique to. Academia, let's say, as a work context. But I also had the feeling that why in the lead up to publication of this book, I was already also busy with the second book. And even then I noticed that, like you can be nervous. Is the, are people gonna the book or are people gonna know about the book at all? So there are so many kind of like questions in your head, or in my head at least in the lead up to publication. And then again, the other manuscript, even though I didn't have the easiest time writing it. It also again, became this kind of world in which you can at least control a few things or if you, even if they feel out of your control, because as you said, like characters almost decide or like Show you the way, you still know what direction you're going into and yeah. I think it can be quite healing as you say, or comforting

Yeah. And the good news is that they're gonna end up h rafter or

exactly. Exactly.

least the ending is gonna be okay

Yeah, you have to get them there somehow, but they will end up there. Yeah.

out there.

Yeah.

so let's talk about your reading life. You mentioned a lot of RO cons, a lot of romance, a lot of workplace romances, academia and whatnot. What books are you reading right now? Actually.

Okay. Right now my reading slowed down a lot around.

Yeah.

Publication and handing in the draft because they, I was very busy with that. But in general, I would say my reading tastes broadly is. Very broad, although it has focused a little bit more Romans, especially in the last years, because also, as you said before, you wanna know what's going on in Romans, what other people are writing, what people like to read and so on. And I just love Romans as a genre. So I always like really like to read Romans books, but I also do quite fantasy, sometimes some contemporary like literature. What else? I think sometimes some memoirs as well, if I really feel like it. Or some kind of like cozy murder mysteries. But the predominant one is usually romance. And the book that I'm reading at the moment is called, All In Your Head by Sabina Norquist. It just came out this week, I think, on the 10th of. February, if I'm if I remember correctly, and it's about a protagonist with idiopathic intracranial hypertension. And she runs into this, or virtually meets this guy in her kind of chronic pain support group. And he turns out to be this like ex Olympic snowboarder which she doesn't know. And they. Make a pact to fake date to get his worried mother of his pack. So I'm really enjoying it a lot. It packs like a lot of steam, a lot of tenderness between those two as well. And yeah, has some spoony wrap as well, which

I have to say the meet cute is for the ages because I read this book. I absolutely, because they're, she is a moderator at a online chat, and he's venting. He has a new disability. He's just just came out with like a life change and his mom is in the chat. She actually tells her like, I'm just your girlfriend, and he's what is happening?

is Yes?

which actually it's similar to your book because Laura doesn't wanna be fake dating or anything so these are good companion, just an FYI

For sure. Yes. So I would definitely re I'm almost done with it. And I don't want it to end, so I would definitely recommend that book. It's really good.

Yes, Oh my gosh. Do you have any other books to recommend or

Yes, I have other books. I can, I'm always happy to recommend books. So one is called, and then there was the one, it's by Martha Waters. I don't know if you know

I, it's a cozy, it's a my mystery, right? It's

it's like a fun crossover between cozy murder, mystery and a romcom. And it's set in this I would say probably like 1930s small English town. And it does a lot of fun twists on murder mystery or cozy tropes like that. There's a lot of tongue in cheek writing about, Agatha Christie and I, when I was a teenager, I read a lot of. Those kind of like golden age cozy mysteries. So this one was really funny and it has a very flirty protagonist and a very kind of no nonsense heroine that I think they bounce off each other very well. So I love that one. If you want like a little murdery twist without it being super, like scary or graphic or anything, like more the cozy kind,

Yeah, that's a good one. I love Martha's actually earlier historical moments or like romcoms are like funny enough, like she's trying to kill her, kill herself,

yeah,

husband and stuff and it's a fun one. But I really love that she took on this historical mystery and just include her sense of humor and her like kind cheek about it. So it's a good

Yes. Yeah, that's really good. Can I recommend a few more or, yeah. Okay, cool. Great. So then another book that I really enjoyed in the last year was The Friendship Fling by Georgia Stone.

I haven't read that one actually. So

Okay. Definitely. Yes. So it's very, it's actually, so I know that a lot of romcoms are funny, but this one actually made me laugh out loud properly. So it's about a grumpy barista who meets a very golden retriever customer at a London coffee shop. And he is basically, he doesn't only talk her into being his friend, but almost annoys her into being his friend. And then together they complete this kind of bucket list that he has set out for himself. 'cause he knows that he's just gonna be in London for the summer. And it's friends to lovers. They think they're just gonna be friends while completing that bucket list. But we all know that's not gonna happen. And I think it's a very warm. Nice London kind of summer heat wave and just the flirting and banter between these two is really great. And I just really Georgia's sense of humor as well. So that one is a big recommendation for me as well.

Oh my gosh, I'm adding this one. I, you have me at London in the summer.

Yes,

like a fun little travel arm travel,

and I think it works. It works super well because you get the London vibes. If you're not super familiar with London, but even if you have lived here and you're familiar with, like it's not so it's not this kind of like super touristy bucket list. There are some elements of that will come back, but there are also elements in there that as someone who lives here are like really fun to read about. And I think that balance is sometimes hard to strike you really get the feeling, oh, this person just wanted like the very kind of like cliche view of the city and Georgia lives in London, so Yeah. You can trust her to do that as well.

Yes. Because that's my biggest pet peeve of I lived in New York for a long time and a lot of writers would write about New York and you wrote, actually, your New York take was really good.

Oh, cool. Thanks. Great.

I'm like, you just talk about going to eat at D Times Square. I'm like, actually, you probably wouldn't do that.

Yeah.

But I really appreciate your New York takeout. I had to say, 'cause I, that's like my biggest pet peeve. And I was like no. Like you took like Columbia. Actually interviewed a couple of jobs in Columbia, so I'm familiar with the campus and like the area and I have in that area and stuff. And just the Upper West side, Morningside Heights, all the, area. So I, it was like a nice little river visiting my

Okay, cool. Yeah, I used to live around that area, so I lived in New York for just under two years. And I put a lot of the, a memory box, like a lot of places that I really liked. I put them into the book or kind of alluded to them in the book.

Yes, I appreciate, and I haven't been to New York in six years, so I'm like, a lot has changed and that's

Yeah.

of me, everything changes, so

Yeah,

I love France, like coming back, she's and just coming back and seeing some of my old friends and seeing someone new friends you experience.

It was funny because I wrote it. I started writing it when I wasn't living there yet, when I was just always, going back and forth because my partner was living there. So it also became a bit of a way to be close to him when I wasn't there, because I had to think about the city and where they were, and then I kept writing. As I moved there and then we moved away and the edit started. So it was, it's this weird progression where now I don't live there anymore, but it is this memory box as I was saying. And I was back in New York a few actually two weeks ago for the release of the book and then coming back to it and being relating to Francis in that way of oh, I've been gone for two years and now I'm back, and things have changed. It's funny too. How have art imitate life and then imitate art? Like just this kind of like circle?

Oh my God. Yeah. Awesome.

Yeah.

All right, so Hannah, tell us where you can find it online.

You can find me online on I'm gonna say it's not, probably not all platforms, but first maybe my website is just Hannah bro. So my full author name.com. Then on Instagram, you can find me at Hannah Brom. On TikTok Hannah Bro, and on Threads. Also Hannah Brom, so just H-A-N-N-A-H-B-R-O-H-M.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Thanks for listening to the What three next. For more book lists, cozy reads and library tips, visit the what three Next block.com. Your next great read might be waiting there.