Trish: [00:00:00] My name is Trish Ware and I am obsessed with all things pregnancy and birth and helping you to navigate with the practical and the magical seasons of this journey called motherhood. I'm an all day coffee sipping mama of seven. I've had the amazing privilege of delivering many babies in my 15 plus year career as a labor and delivery nurse and as a mama of seven.

I'm here to help you take the guesswork out of childbirth so you can make the choices that are right for you and your baby. Quick note, this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace your medical advice. Check out our full disclaimer at the bottom of the show notes.

Good morning, everyone. I am so pumped up this morning. You guys, I am [00:01:00] fangirling so hard right now. I am so excited to introduce our guest. I just have to say when I saw an email from this guest about coming on, I literally screenshot it and sent it to my doula team and sent it to the people who come into my community help with my mamas.

And I was like, Oh my God. So today's guest is Rebecca Decker and she is Evidence based birth. That is her. And I am just so happy you're here. Thank you so much for coming on.

Rebecca: Yeah, thank you so much for having me and thank you for the work that you do educating parents around the world. It's just so exciting to talk with a fellow nurse who shares like the same mission.

Trish: So, yeah. I, I know. I love it. I love it so much. And it just, I don't know if you know, but I also coach new business owners and business owners who are scaling their businesses. And the majority of the women I work with are in the birth world in some capacity. And I've had other people ask me, [00:02:00] like, why are you coaching competitors basically? And I'm like, no, our goal is to change the birth culture. And. Someone may be like, I'm older than most of the other educators right now, you know, and I'm like, some might want a mama, someone might want a sister, you know, and so I just love that we can all work with that same goal.

It's

Rebecca: definitely the abundance mindset is what I believe in as well.

Trish: Me too. And the truth is, I started this because of what I was seeing at Bedside. And we, so Rebecca and I started to chat before I. started recording and I was like, no, let's talk about this. So first, I know everyone listening knows a bit about my story, but they may not know your story.

So I would love for you to, start, go way back and

tell us your story.

Rebecca: Sure. So mine's a little bit different in that [00:03:00] I don't think my story started at the bedside, it started with my own birth experiences, and, because I did not have a history as a labor and delivery nurse, but I had practiced as a nurse, and I was in grad school, and I got pregnant with my first baby.

And I had to give birth at the university Where I was studying, and so I just assumed that I would get really good care because, you know, you think academic medical center, this is where all this cutting edge research is taking place, and in the College of Nursing where I was teaching and doing research, there's a lot of We were all about evidence based care.

It was like what we lived and breathed was like, what does the research say? How can we put this into practice? So I just kind of assumed that that was happening on labor and delivery. And so I didn't do a lot of preparation. And then when I got there, at 39 and a half weeks and I was totally healthy, I was really surprised when I was being treated as if I had some kind of like congestive heart failure [00:04:00] condition.

You know, I was like, On strict bedrest, NPO, bedpan. They wouldn't even let me out of bed to use the bathroom. I was hooked up to all kinds of monitors and IVs. And I just all of a sudden found myself like as a sick patient. And so that really struck me because I knew if In my gut, in my intuition that I was not sick, that everything was fine.

So I was kind of confused as to what was going on, but I was willing to go with the flow because I didn't want to be one of those patients that they talk about. Oh, I say that all

Trish: the time. Those people. Those people. We all know who they

Rebecca: are. We all know about the gossip at the nursing stations and we all, all know that they don't tend to get the best care.

Like if you're difficult and you make the, the staff's lives more difficult, you know, so I just wanted to be nice. And that actually has been ingrained to me from a young age is to, to be pleasant, to be polite. You know, that was part of how I was raised in the South. Oh,

Trish: hello. [00:05:00]

My mother's from Kentucky.

Rebecca: Yeah. So, you know, that was. An interesting experience in that I did try to push back on a few things, but I was really careful on what I pushed back on. And in the end, I ended up having every intervention except for a cesarean, you know, I had, pitocin epidural, continuous monitoring, IV fluids and a vacuum assisted delivery.

And then. You know, I, I went through all of that and I was okay with all of that, but then something happened that made me really question everything and that was, they took my baby away for three hours, even though her, her five minute Afgar was normal, even though she was crying and pink and everything, and I kept putting my call light on.

Can I have my baby back? Can I have my baby back? I need to breastfeed. I need, you know, I want to see my baby. And because I'd had the epidural and I couldn't walk, I couldn't like, you know, Go running down the hall demanding. All I had was my call light, which I kept putting it [00:06:00] on. But it was the middle of the night, and they were short staffed, and I think they just didn't prioritize putting us together.

So when I finally got my baby back, she was exhausted. You know, I was exhausted. It had been a very long labor experience where I had not been allowed to eat or drink anything for 24 hours. And I had pushed for more than three hours, and I just felt like I'd been run over by a truck. And that was how I entered.

At the time, though, I had a glow. I was very much happy with how my birth turned out. And sometimes I think when people are really naive, they just assume I made it out alive. You know, that's the bare minimum. That's all I can expect. And it wasn't until about a year later that I started questioning everything that happened to me.

And because I was getting my Ph. D. and I was, you know, In all of the research, I was like, I'm just going to start looking at the research. So I made a bullet point list on a Word document with every single thing that happened from the moment I stepped into the hospital. And I started doing literature reviews on everything.

And I was [00:07:00] really surprised to find that most of what happened to me has either been shown by evidence to be not helpful for a healthy first time birthing person, or in some cases harmful, such as making me lie on my back for 24 hours. And And then I didn't need evidence to tell me that it's harmful to take away, you know, your ba to separate you from your baby.

But, I found there's actual evidence showing it is really harmful as well, and, you know, I think humans, we are resilient. Moms and babies, we can overcome these challenges, we can still bond with our babies, but it, we shouldn't be making it harder, you know. So that was kind of what inspired me the second time to do things completely differently.

With a different model of care with a midwife. And I left that second experience and the contrast was so stark where in one, I was just kind of steamrolled into all of these things. And then the other, I felt empowered. I was making choices. I was surrounded by people who were already aligned [00:08:00] with what I wanted for that birth.

And the difference was so stark that I, I just felt like I had to do something. And so that's when I started taking the research I'd been gathering just for my own personal use. and putting it online, and that became Evidence Based Birth.

Trish: Which is so amazing, and I, I wanted to interject one thing. Yeah. As a, you know, a labor and delivery nurse, one thing that you said that I feel can go another way is being that person.

And what I, what I encourage my students is that, you know, and I teach them how to fire their nurse in a way that's how they might end up being super close to her. Because we as labor and delivery nurses might come to work bearing our own problems, and we don't even realize that we might be the best nurse in the world.

So I have them walk through that. But I will tell you from labor [00:09:00] and delivery for 16 years traveling all over the country That if there's someone on the floor like me I get that person and Usually because we all know hospitals want good reviews, right? They want good that the nurse the charge nurse wants the patient to ultimately be happy So what I would tell you guys is It's okay to be that person and most of the time you're gonna get the most patient Aligned nurse like they would always give me her and and then I would bond for life with them I like still communicate with them.

So I just want you guys to Who cares if they're at the desk talking about you? The nurses who really care about The birth process, the natural process, the mom's rights. We're at the desk advocating for you as well. Yeah, and I think

Rebecca: it's changed a lot in the 15 years. And I do agree. I don't want to [00:10:00] discourage anyone from speaking up.

I think a lot of this was just in my own head. No,

Trish: it's, I think it's in all of us. You know, I

Rebecca: had to address my own you know, upbringing and cultural indoctrination of being that nice person who doesn't speak up. And, and I think also there are some really strong instincts I was feeling to, I was feeling vulnerable, so I didn't want to make waves.

And now I know you, you can't go through life You know, doing parenting that way, you have to use your voice. And so for what, one thing I'm really passionate about, and I think you are too, Trish is, is helping people find their voice because for a lot of people, having a baby is their first time in the hospital.

And, you know, I was really focused on being nice, but if I could do it again, I would have focused on building a connection with the team and advocating In a respectful way and knowing more what I wanted, like I didn't really know what I didn't [00:11:00] know, you know, so I was just kind of going with the flow, which I didn't know then, but I know now is if you just kind of do the go with the flow thing, you kind of get the bottom denominator of care, you're not going to get what might make you really happy.

Trish: And I love that you brought all this up because I know from. Working with thousands of women that we also want, like, there's this weird thing that happens when you meet your labor nurse, and you know she's a significant part of this event, and you really want her to like you, there's that going on internally as well for a lot of women, and like you said, we have been, now I will say, my daughter's generation, they're changing this a little, like, they don't care as much as we did about Being obedient and going with the flow, but, which I'm glad, I'm very glad, but like you said, there's a way to do it and you [00:12:00] use those same skills that you use everywhere else, but it is very disconcerting to get to a hospital room.

They strap you with all these things. They put a hospital gown on you. And put you in a bed. Yeah,

because

you've only maybe seen your grandma in bed like this with a hospital bracelet or, you know, when someone has been sick or had an accident. And like you said, for most women, it's the first time they've been a hospital patient.

But I, I really am. I do feel that the culture is changing somewhat, and I think a lot of that has to do with social media, because hospitals, nurses, providers are getting called out publicly, and, and I think it's causing them to have to question themselves as well in some ways.

Rebecca: True. I, I do think there is a developmental phase, in life, you get more comfortable with your voice.

And some people start off that way, they, you know, if you ever go to a high school [00:13:00] class, you'll see, there's the students who are not afraid to use their voice. And maybe, maybe that's your daughter you can picture. Then there's the students who may speak up if they feel really called to. And then there's the students who don't say a word, right?

Yeah. And just kind of want to fly under the radar and, you know. So, I think it, part of it is age, part of it might be your personality, your upbringing, but learning how to use your voice is, is critical. Not just for your own health, but for your child and your whole family. Because it doesn't end with birth, like you're going to have to pick up throughout the rest of raising this child.

Trish: Yeah, and learning how to do it in a way that brings change and not conflict. There's a different. Yeah. In that as well. Being bold, but doing it in a way that brings a good, positive thing, you know, so. Right. So, I love this so much. So, you started the blog, I'm assuming. Mm

Rebecca: hmm.

Trish: And tell us where it went from there.

Rebecca: It just kind [00:14:00] of, it picked up steam immediately, like within the first week or two, and then the traffic just kept doubling every month until I realized that, I felt like it was I was like riding this wave of a movement where people wanted accurate information to make choices. They wanted more options.

And they were starting to be willing to speak up for it. And the other thing that happened was that doulas really latched on to evidence based birth because they were feeling really disempowered at the time and they were going with their clients, accompanying them to hospitals where their clients were not receiving safe care and feeling somewhat, you know, traumatized by this.

And so doulas also were like, wow, evidence based birth is something we can use. To educate our clients. So, you know, basically what I was trying to do is take the research and make it publicly Available so that anybody can understand it or access it. It's not behind a paywall [00:15:00] anymore you can understand it if you want to learn about something and That make that kind of puts I love it because it puts It helps educate the healthcare workers, and then it helps educate the families, and that kind of levels the playing field so you don't have as much of a power imbalance in the work room or in your prenatal visits.

Like, you can access the same research that your doctor might be able to if they looked something up. So, that's something that, uh, was a really key part of it. And then we started a podcast, of course, and I have a book, but it just kind of kept growing. No, no, no, no. Stop. Yeah. Slow

Trish: down. Talk about that book.

Yeah, it's called. Because that book is amazing.

Rebecca: Thank you. It's called Babies Are Not Pizzas. They're Born, Not Delivered. I love it. It's so clever. It's basically my, my journey through kind of, uh, Uncovering everything that was going on in the maternity care system and talks a little bit more about how I eventually had to decide, you [00:16:00] know, at, at the time I started evidence based birth.

I was a nursing professor. I was really involved in teaching the next generation of nurses and doing research and getting large grants to do studies. And then I had to decide, like, this evidence based birth thing was just so. It's going crazy. It's exploding. So I do. Yeah. Yeah. And, and goes into more depth with my birth stories and those of my friends and family.

And yeah, that was, that was a key period of my life.

Trish: Yeah. I love your book. I recommend it all the time. It's a great book. And it's such a perfect title.

Rebecca: It was actually the title of a college class I was teaching. So I, I love college students. I just, people in, especially those who are younger, they're just so much fun to be around cause they're, it's so much

Trish: energy and

Rebecca: they're questioning everything.

And so the honors. Department asked me to create like an honors seminar student, class for honor [00:17:00] students. And I created that class. I decided to call it babies are not pizzas. They're born, not delivered. And it was, it always filled up immediately. And then I would have emails from students begging me to get in.

Oh, I

Trish: would have been that one.

Rebecca: It was amazing how many people wanted to take that class. It, it really, and they still reach out to me. Sometimes they, they send me emails, Hey, Dr. Decker, you know, and they give you updates on their lives and they're going on to have. Pregnancies and babies now, so it's just fun to see.

That's amazing. Yeah, and some of them have turned into midwives and OBs

Trish: and Oh nice. Yeah. Well, I I love it so much and I I was just thinking when I started my blog I was so like I can remember and I tell my students and part of my story is and I can Almost smell her labor room the way I felt in the last straw, like I'm done, I've got to do something.

And I remember sitting in my car, and I am [00:18:00] not kidding when I tell you I am the most technically challenged person. Like, we didn't really use computers when I went to college, you know, like, I did paper charting, like, and I was like, what do I do? And I always say all the time that They were as hungry for that information as I was to give it and I had the same experience my blog just exploded the first month and I was like wait what and you know I have a particular style of how I speak and teach and I was like, oh, okay, you know and I I just think that We as women are ready to To be more audacious, and more bold, and more in charge, and you know, that's one of the things I say to them all the time, like, you're the birth queen, like, this is your room, without you in the room, the birth doesn't happen, take your power back, [00:19:00] and just, it's, it's not a, it's not a sickness, it's not an illness, it's a natural process, and, but I also, they always joke and say I'm crunchy with a side of medical, I also I very much respect the interventions, and I'm so grateful for the interventions that we have available to us as well.

But when they're used, I always tell my girls, not out of convenience or curiosity. They're when they're needed, but you have to know, you have to understand, like when they are needed, when they might not be needed. And you have to be able to just ask questions and feel confident in that. So I'd love to ask you a few questions about different things that people, like my most common questions.

Sure. And My most common question I get, these are always about inductions, always, [00:20:00] mostly, and one of the ones that we try to navigate with our students is getting induced just because you have GDM, just because you're gestational diabetic. Okay. And I'd love to just hear your thoughts on that. Okay, good.

Well, give

Rebecca: me a second to pull that up because, you know, I don't want to

talk without having the facts in front of me, because So we do have an article all about that at Evidence Based Birth, if you want to send people to it or anyone to check it out. I have it linked in my birth class. Yeah. ebbirth. com. Yeah. Slash ebbirth. com. Inducing GDM and so gestatial diabetes comes up a lot because a lot of people have it now.

There's different cutoffs for when you could be diagnosed. Some cutoffs, maybe 7 percent of people would have gestatial diabetes. Some cutoffs, 17 percent would have it. And that's because it, it exists on a spectrum. You know, there's no one blood sugar that is, Like this point is where it's a problem. They have to [00:21:00] kind of draw the line somewhere, and different people draw the line different places.

So it's pretty common to have an induction offered for gestational diabetes, but we don't have a lot of data on that. And I think the reason it's offered is because there is a higher risk of pregnancy complications with gestational diabetes. But we, we want to ask, what does the evidence say, does that help or not?

So we do have a Cochrane Review, which is where they take all the randomized trials on a subject and put them together. And they looked at a planned early birth at or near term. So, between 37 and 40 weeks, versus kind of waiting until. Labor starts on its own and there's actually only been one randomized trial on this subject so far that I know of it is called the Gen X mall trial, which is, I don't know why they picked that, but it was an international trial.

It took place in Italy, Slovenia and Israel. [00:22:00] And they had, 214 participants randomly assigned to be induced between 38 and 39 weeks. And the other 211 participants were randomly assigned to wait until at least 41 weeks before they were induced. And they found, you know, people often Think well, this induction is for the baby to help the baby, but they found No differences between the groups in the number of large babies or the risks of the shoulders being stuck breathing problems low blood sugar and needing intensive care and There were more babies in the early induction group that experienced jaundice.

The rates of jaundice were Two times higher. And then when they looked at the mothers, there was no difference between groups in the rate of cesarean You and needing forceps or vacuum and having a postpartum hemorrhage, needing intensive care or intact perineum. And there were no [00:23:00] deaths in the study. So, you know, that's, that's the, what we have in terms of randomized trials in terms of the observational studies.

There are, there is one really large study that included more than 8, 000 people. They found that inducing labor at 30, 38 or 39 weeks for gestational diabetes is linked to a lower rate of caesareans. less or fewer cases of preeclampsia and higher rates of needing an epidural compared to waiting for labor to start on its own.

And when they looked exclusively at first time mothers, they found no benefit to the 38 week induction. They did find that 39 weeks was linked to a lower rate of cesareans. So kind of to summarize these studies, we don't have definitive evidence showing that one path is better than the other. And I think one of the things you need to understand is that the outcomes of gestational diabetes are often dependent on how well the treatment has [00:24:00] worked.

So if you have been able to manage your blood sugars and keep them in kind of a safer range, that has been shown over and over again to improve outcomes, both for you and for your baby. So it might be that maybe there's less of a need for an induction if you've been able to manage, let's say you've managed your blood sugars, they've stayed in a normal range with exercise and nutrition, then maybe the induction conversation isn't as relevant to you because your blood sugars have been normal, right?

So I think Individualized care is really important, and I think we're seeing more towards this leaning of 39 weeks instead of 38 weeks, but at this time, there's not really any definitive evidence on this. It really comes down to at EBB. We talk about evidence based care. Kind of being like a three legged stool.

It's like you have the research evidence is one leg having, a provider who can help you [00:25:00] interpret that evidence and apply it to your unique situation. And then the 3rd leg is you, like, your preferences, your goals and your values. Maybe you prefer a 39 week induction because. Maybe you have a history of a previous pregnancy loss, or there's some other social reason you want to be induced at 39 weeks.

But maybe you've had an induction in the past, and you really didn't like it, and you want to avoid it, so that also could play into it. So your preferences do matter, and unfortunately, we do see a lot of pressure to induce, even though the evidence isn't really clear.

Trish: Yeah, and I love that you said individualized, because that's pretty much what I tell my moms.

If you're, if you're, if you, your diet control or your blood sugars are in control, your baby is doing well, and you are confident in your provider, have a conversation. Talk about your specific situation. And I'm with you. If it's a mom, if mom is preferring, [00:26:00] And I don't even care what her reason is, if it, for her mental well being, she prefers to be induced, then I'll support that.

That, I, that's, that's her choice, but I do agree with just about all of it, that it needs to be an individualized, let's talk about her. Because even, you know, and we could go on and on with all the things, IVF, big baby, all the different things. And what I recommend to my students is that. They start having early and often conversations with their provider and ask them to base it on what's going on with them.

And then I also encourage my students, okay, so maybe their provider is very heavily leaning into being induced at 39 weeks. They do not want to be induced at 39 weeks. They are, you know, their, their blood sugars are in, you know, in limits for them, baby's doing well, they're doing well, then make some baby step compromises, maybe agree to [00:27:00] more NSTs, or maybe come in for another BBP, you know, something where you're working with them, not just like, no, I'm not going to be induced, that's that.

Because I also think the opposite side is, God forbid, something were to happen, because you and I both know, loss happens, it happens whether, You have anything else going on or not? I just had a student lose her baby 40 weeks in one day, two days ago. Um, we're all heartbroken. She had, you know, low risk, nothing.

So that can happen, but let's say your doctor is pressuring you to be induced, and then you just go balls to the walls, no, not doing it. not coming in for more tests, not doing all those things, and something were to happen. There's also that can play out as well. So I usually encourage my, my students to work with them.

And, you know, you, you are [00:28:00] considered high risk. So, go in for more NSTs and testing, make sure you and baby are doing well, and then you navigate from there. So, if baby didn't do well on that NST or BPP, then you make a decision based on that. Like, we aren't, we don't refuse things just because we can, and we don't accept things just because we should.

Rebecca: I think one good question When you're having conversations with somebody who's pressuring for something, it's to say, I'd like, I'd really like to see like the guidelines from your professional organization on that. Um, because I hate to say it, but some doctors don't know the latest guidelines and it will force them or they manipulate

Trish: it.

So, I tell my students to say, I always tell them, first of all, I teach them how to read the room, right? So, if your doctor is rushing in and like, we need to send you to labor and delivery right now, and it's emergent, it's a little different. But if your doctor is telling you they, they, you know, recommending this or that, we always We want you to schedule [00:29:00] it next week.

Yeah, we always say, ask them to go print the study that is backing up what they're saying. And tell them you will take it home, not right there, take it home, and without attached emotions, read through it. And what happens a lot of times with my students is the doctor will highlight what supports them, but then when they read the whole study, they realize, wait, this does not support what you're saying.

And then when they come back and they have a discussion, they're not like, You know, amped up and emotional. So we, we definitely do that. We tell them, show me.

Rebecca: Yeah. Next time I come in, I really need to see that because I'm not going to schedule anything without, you know, seeing it in writing.

Trish: Yeah. And we have them printed out then in there and take it home.

That's a good idea. Let me take it home

Rebecca: and look at it.

Trish: Yeah. We link to your articles and to studies all over the birth course. My students always say that their, their nurses are like, are you an L and D nurse? Like how do you [00:30:00] know all this? Are you a doula? Because I want them to know what I know. I'm the same as you, like, let's not have any walls between that, like, go in knowing the things so that you can navigate these, these, you know, and their partner, because I tell my girls all the time, when you're in labor, your only job is to labor, like, you're not, you don't need to fight all the evidence or any of that, like, that's your partner's job.

spot now. So we're getting close to 30 minutes and like I told you, I usually like to keep these short and sweet because I know my mamas and they, they drop off. So I'd love for you to tell everyone where they can find you. And well, we've said already evidence based birth, but do you hang out on Instagram or any other social platform more than the other?

Rebecca: Yeah, you can follow us at ebbirth on Instagram. And then, something you were saying earlier about, there was just one thing you said that I wanted to point out and that is, you know, if your provider is putting pressure on something for you and you don't want [00:31:00] it and the evidence isn't really clear either way, um, I think you've got to understand that This provider is more confident and comfortable with 39 week inductions, and you might be better off, if it's early enough, switching care, because if your provider is very antsy and anxious about you waiting till 40 weeks and 6 days with gestational diabetes, then you might see them more likely to suggest a cesarean when you're in labor, if it's taking a little longer than they like.

So just to keep that

in mind that the providers who prefer those earlier inductions or elective inductions, that's what they prefer. If you kind of go outside their realms of their comfort zone, they're going to get more and more anxious and they, you know, there's a lot of subjective decision making that happens in labor.

So just, Just keep that in mind that if you really feel like you're butting heads with your provider, if it's possible to switch providers, sometimes that will help alleviate [00:32:00] that, like, kind of power struggle.

Trish: I love that so much, and that's why I tell them early and often, have these conversations. Don't wait until your third trimester, like, start, which again is why our, my birth classes start at the beginning of pregnancy, and we have people who join us when they're three trying to conceive.

They're not pregnant yet. We hang out with them every week on Zoom. Well, three times a month on Zoom. But that's what I say too. And watch their body language, like listen to what they're really saying. So if you're trying to talk about something that's really important to you and you're 22 weeks and they're like, Oh, we can talk about that later.

We don't need to be talking about that now. That is a red flag.

Exactly. Because

you don't know what they really feel about it, and, and in defense of these providers who are comfortable with that, I, I tell my girls all the time, these providers aren't evil. Like, I'm not saying, like, they're just horrible people.

This is their job, and like all of us, we get comfortable in our routine, [00:33:00] and what makes us feel safe in our routine. So that is okay for them. But maybe not okay for you. And it's okay to switch, but I'll tell you, I've had a lot of students lately. That have had a hard time switching providers. So just really be mindful of that when you guys get pregnant, if you're listening early on, interview these providers.

Don't go in, like you have a right to go in and interview them across from a desk, like person to person, and make a really good decision that's aligned with you. The thing that scares me about that is that most of them don't know really what they want yet, or what's even out there. Available to them at the beginning of pregnancy.

So anyway, thank you so much for coming I am so happy that you came today. Thank you. Thank you, Trish.

Thank you so [00:34:00] much for tuning in to today's episode of The Birth Experience with Labor Nurse Mama. It's been such an honor to have Dr. Rebecca Decker, the founder of Evidence Based Birth. I hope you loved listening to it. And her insights on birth rights and your birth experience. Truly eyeopening and invaluable.

The birth worker world and parents everywhere. Thank her for her invaluable resources. Don't forget to subscribe to the birth experience wherever you listen to podcasts. And if you love this episode, please leave a review. Take two minutes, two minutes, leave a review. Your support helps us bring more amazing guests like Dr.

Decker to the show. Now. Again, every Friday morning. I'll see you again next Friday. Bye for [00:35:00] now.