[00:00:00] Nina Endrst: Hi, I'm Nina Endrst.

[00:00:05] Anna Toonk: I'm Anna Toonk.

[00:00:06] Nina Endrst: Welcome to how to be human.

[00:00:08] Anna Toonk: A podcast that explores the common and often confusing themes of humanness.

[00:00:12] Nina Endrst: On this episode, Anna and I discuss subconscious.

[00:00:15] Anna Toonk: Take a seat clear mind and let's chat.

[00:00:21] Nina Endrst: Hello?

[00:00:23] Anna Toonk: Hello. Are we subdued today? Are we

[00:00:27] Nina Endrst: sleepy and ready for what I think is going to be kind of a

[00:00:31] Anna Toonk: stoner conversation? I feel like any time you're talking, like there are certain topics that I almost like resent that it feels like we should be in a dorm room, stone passing a joint and being like they're called clothes.

You know, just certain topics. I'm hearing from, we're recording this in March. I think y'all will hear this in may. Hopefully our weather has gotten it the fuck together by then, because I don't know about you, but I feel like less people had had like winter blues this year and it's almost like everyone has more of this Lenke dreary blues of just like, where are we?

We're not in winter. Cause it's like kind of warm and slightly humid, but it's gray. So the COVID cases are going up again in some, they, I just read that they, they weren't and people didn't understand why

[00:01:36] Nina Endrst: I just got something. I saw that. And then.

[00:01:39] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Yeah. But I'm glad you knew that. Cause I was like, I felt gaslit by life, you know, where you're like, I swear I saw

[00:01:46] Nina Endrst: it was in the New York times was not online.

It was not like your convenient. There is for you.com.

[00:01:58] Anna Toonk: I'm going to store that away for a future time and I cannot wait.

[00:02:03] Nina Endrst: It was the New York times, but I don't know here they are, which I mean, I just had something canceled because of it, which was like a facial. I mean, it wasn't even a big, I don't like go places. And our favorite restaurant devs closed down last weekend.

Cause they had a bunch of cases. Yeah. Anyway, let's talk about something else.

[00:02:21] Anna Toonk: Other than COVID whatever people doing up there, they all just like kissing like, Aw, it's your people. It's New York city people fair because I'm like,

[00:02:35] Nina Endrst: we were fine until all of you started to come in and like spend the week.

And I'm like, nah, you know, so annoying. I mean it's so yeah. It's great because it's good for the town, but like city, it's not really a city, but it is city anyway, but I'm like bitches.

[00:02:55] Anna Toonk: Yeah. So what are we talking about today? We're talking about. The subconscious and what I learned it's, you know, I said every week I probably will continue to say it every week.

It's always interesting what you find when you go to find these definitions. Because at first I just put the subconscious and, you know, nothing came up and then it was like, did you mean the subconscious mind or the subconscious self? And I was like, first of all, I'm gonna need you to relax, uh, internet.

So, but then when I pushed it and was like, fine, I'll do the subconscious mind. This is why, like, sometimes I just feel crazy, you know, you type in the subconscious, nothing comes up. It's like never heard of it. Don't know what you're talking about. Who is she? And then it's like, did you mean mind? And then you put in mind and all of a sudden Oxford's like, oh, you meant subconscious.

And I'm like, what is happening? Like, is it me? Is it the internet? So according to Oxford languages, subconscious adjective of, or concerning the part of the mind, which one is not fully aware, but which influences one's actions and feelings. My subconscious fear, what I felt really validated by is I find the subconscious sort of terrifying.

Like, what do you mean? There's a part of us that resides within us. We have no real awareness or control over. And then when I read the definition, I was like, oh, so you're going to go straight for my fear of like, uh, that it influences us. And we're not aware of it. Coca-Cola loving that for all of us as a noun, the subconscious part of the mind, not in technical use in psychoanalysts where unconscious is preferred, but it's the subconscious part of the mind.

And then the unconscious mind. Part of the subconscious, but did the subconscious, it's the large, larger category that the unconscious fits within. I was able to sort of determine, but if you're curious about further adding to my terror, I don't get afraid of lot of a lot, really like deep down, but like this, this, this subconscious, it really got me.

So. The call comes from inside. Um, so the conscious mind, apparently we use 10% of 90%,

[00:05:35] Nina Endrst: right? 90 bucks. I know, I know 90%

[00:05:39] Anna Toonk: is free to myself. So conscious mind analyzes thinks and plans. Short-term memory, subconscious mind, long-term memory, emotions and feelings, habits, relationship patterns, addictions, involuntary body functions, creativity, developmental stages, spiritual connection, intuition.

Doesn't it seem like we should have a little more influence over all of that. Like I just.

[00:06:11] Nina Endrst: The first thing I thought of was the high priestess. When I saw our topic today, when I remembered our topic today. And the only reason I'm not as freaked out as I think I maybe would have been at one point about the subconscious is because I like to think of her as the guardian, because she is of that.

And it makes me feel a little bit safer.

[00:06:31] Anna Toonk: Yeah. And it's on our side. Yeah. Your subconscious is an enemy. But I think as someone who self-awareness has always been a big goal of mine, and I know we can't be fully self-aware, but like I'm someone who's pretty solution oriented. Self-aware like, and I want to know stuff that I think it's really hard for me to fully grasp, but that there's this huge part of us that is unknowable to us.

You know, like part of me finds it like. What's interesting to me is it doesn't freak me out necessarily about other people. I find it kind of empowering. Like we can't fully know ourselves. Like we can't fully know or subconscious therefore, like how could we really ever fully expected no someone else?

Which like keeps me curious or asking questions or like in communication with someone, you know? But like it also. I think it's also just makes me a little bit like sad where I'm like, well, I want to know my subconscious self, you know, like, it's just very hard for me to grasp, but like certain things like the subconscious and unconscious, like my therapist would have to explain it to me all the time when she would be like, I think it's possible, like you're doing this because of this, you know?

And I'd be like, well, it's not like that in my head. And she's like, yeah, I know that's a subconscious. Yeah. She's like, cause it's your subconscious, you know? And she would explain it like when something's in your unconscious, she's like, you literally are not aware of it. You have no awareness whatsoever.

It is. It is unknown to you in this could be. It could be a million things, you know, but it's just not known to you. And I always am, like, I would always like argue with her both about the unconscious, the subconscious and denial, or be like, right. Wherever. Right. But you know, a little bit and she'd be like, no, that's, that's like, that's the whole point I would be like, but how, like, you know, and she would always have to walk me back to like points of my own life or something, but she would be like, when something's in, you know, in your unconscious, like it's truly unknown to you.

You're not aware you're not playing games. It is nowhere near on your radar. And then it moves a bit into, it moves up, I think, to the subconscious. And then it's like, then it's influencing things. Just a reminder. Y'all not a therapist. This has been poorly recounting what was like taught to me. And then in the subconscious it's influencing actions, patterns, whatever, you know, like it's somewhere.

And then it like continues to move its way up. And I remember when I was reading 78 degrees of wisdom to your point about the high priestess. And she was talking about how much the high priestess teaches us the value of stillness and that when we're still like that's so often when we learn or get our directive of length, what to do next or where to go or how.

You know, pilot ourselves that we don't learn through action. That it's, that we actually learn by, you know, by being passive, which is interesting that that's literally sort of how our psyche works. That it's like when we slow down and we're calm, like, you know, in meditation, or even like sometimes like, I think in Shavasana or something like, you know, it's, it's in that stillness where all of a sudden you're like, oh, what about this?

Or you connect a DOD or, you know, that stuff can kind of like work its way through the cracks.

[00:10:25] Nina Endrst: it's interesting that I know that by definition, what you're saying. True and accurate,

[00:10:31] Anna Toonk: obviously, are you going to fight it or is it like me?

[00:10:34] Nina Endrst: I'm gonna, I'm gonna just think about it in another way, which I know that's all true, but there's also this big piece that feels like to me that we it's not that we don't know.

It's the. It's like a different pathway

[00:10:51] Anna Toonk: in or out. Mm it's it's that's interesting. I think it's

[00:10:58] Nina Endrst: unknowable. And maybe, like I said, I don't think everything is unknowable about it, right? Like there are parts of what about intuition. It's not that that is a huge part of our dreams. Right?

[00:11:12] Anna Toonk: Our dream is the asset.

Those are generated by the subconscious.

[00:11:16] Nina Endrst: And so it's less to me, even though I know it is probably leaning more that, to that end, that it's unknowable. That it's just, what if we approach ourselves differently or give ourselves permission to learn differently or to put more emphasis on certain. Parts of ourselves that we have not before will, will we be able to come to some sort of different understanding or conclusion or aha moment, whatever.

I don't, I didn't surprise me, even though it surprised me that 10, it was 10% of 90%. I mean, it was like, I didn't, I don't know if I expected it to be that shocking, drastic, but I do think most people are walking around, giving all, like putting all of their eggs into the conscious mind, analytical basket.

[00:12:14] Anna Toonk: Huge. I so agree with

[00:12:16] Nina Endrst: you and not realizing that what actually moves them through most of their life is the subconscious. Yeah,

[00:12:24] Anna Toonk: absolutely. Do you think that like unknowable is maybe the wrong word and it's uncontrollable because. You're you're right. It is a different pathway in and out of like the self, you know, it is a different part of you and you don't like, I can, I was going to say I could access my intuition at any time, but like sometimes I can't, you know, like, or rather, you know, like if I'm worn out or I remember when a friend was telling me a story about like, when she was overly accessing our intuition and calling kind of her spirit guides, spirit squad, and for every decision.

And they were like, no, like we're not talking to you anymore. You know? Like you gotta like kind of figure out how to be a human and like when to be a spiritual being kind of slug and. I do think that, that, I wonder if that is a bit with the subconscious it's like this big exercise and trust and that, I don't think that we get as much control and say in it, you know, it's like, whenever I felt like my subconscious has been like, you know, like revealed something to me or something's come up.

Like, I didn't have a huge say in that. Like I maybe was doing behaviors that supported it of like being in meditation or taking moments of stillness or going for walks, like letting myself zone out and making my conscious mind. Maybe take a little bit more of a back seat. I definitely did like supportive things, but I don't think you can be like, Look, it always cracks me up sometimes in spirituality when people are like, you know, I'm going to like harness the shit out of my intuition.

And it's like, as if it works like that, you know, like not everything's like, you know, what's that, uh, no, I can't think of it. Of course. Like not everything's crossed,

[00:14:27] Nina Endrst: like, not exactly what I was thinking when you were talking.

[00:14:31] Anna Toonk: I literally almost said to you, what's the exercise we hate, but, um, yeah, no, it's CrossFit.

It's like, not everything can be linked. You can't make a spreadsheet and tick it off, like for everything. And I'm like, is this subconscious this way that we're constantly remembering it. So I also found this little thing that was like the conscious mind versus the subconscious mind. M. It's so interesting.

What you were just saying in terms of you don't people are heavily reliant, so conscious mind takes control over logical and intellectual processes. Subconscious mind mainly has the control over physical functions. So the conscious mind is decision-making planning, communication through language and skills of organization or control by the conscious mind breathing and digestion, memory, feelings, emotions, beliefs, attitudes, that instincts are controlled by the subconscious mind.

That relationship is hilarious that if you're not like, if you're not thinking about why you do the things you do, or what is, what is outside of language, what is outside of organization? What is outside of logic, you know, is a lot and a lot of what makes us up of being a person, you know, that. It is kind of hilarious.

I don't know. I've been talking and thinking a lot about learned behavior, which is, you know, basically everything. But if you had the experience ever of, when someone is talking to you, I've had this recently with both people I know in clients where they're telling me a really specific behavior that a friend, a parent someone's done that annoys the shit out of them or bothers them or triggers them, harms them a million different things, but they don't like it.

And I will know for a fact they do the exact same thing. And I was like, what is that? And it's, it's learned behavior good morning

[00:16:34] Nina Endrst: with a client. And I was like, uh, could it be well, what do you think we're accessing right now?

[00:16:44] Anna Toonk: Um, our logical, I think our conscious mind. Yeah. I think our subconscious mind is how we sort of like pick stuff and how we feel about it.

And then I think our conscious mind is like, bet I'll, I'll tell the people about it. You know? Like it gives us the language and organizes

[00:17:03] Nina Endrst: that it, sometimes I feel like I'm way more out of conscious mind when we do this than I am in it. Do you feel like you're, when you read taro you're in your conscious mind more to,

[00:17:16] Anna Toonk: or fully?

I think if you're trying to like be cool in any way, whether that's like smart or in the zone, like whatever you want to term that I think you have to be using both. Yeah. If it was just your conscious, it would probably be really boring. And if it was just your subconscious, it probably wouldn't make sense.

No, totally. So I think it has to be both like if you're doing anything that like people are drawn to or resonating with, they're connecting with. One of the most like impactful, uh, when I was doing more comedy writing and taking, I was taking a course with a guy who was like one of the writers on the golden girls.

So he knew what finger do. And he was talking about link. The only way to make really impactful, comedic writing is for it to be clear, he's like own. Otherwise, it's only funny to you. And I was like, whoa, that's fascinating. You know, like it was just one of those things that was so simple and it really stuck with me.

So I think this is similar if it was just subconscious, it would only be clear to you, you know?

[00:18:22] Nina Endrst: Yeah. One of the things that the sub that I think is fascinating about the subconscious that I feel like I wish we taught and we're taught is it's a lot about what we absorb. And so when you go into a space and I'm thinking like memories and you know, information, but when, when I sit down to write and I haven't done that in a long time, which I need to get back to, but when I would sit down to write, and I remember specifically, once we were living in Mexico and I just, I don't write poetry.

Like it's not, that's not something I do. And I've never, I don't think written a poem except for one time when I like pretended I wrote a poem and my dad printed it in the newspaper. And then someone wrote in saying, your daughter didn't write that poem. This person

wasn't the best day at work for him. I was like, I'm a little girl. I just wanted you to be proud by,

[00:19:23] Anna Toonk: did you know you plagiarized. Did it get away from you was w where

[00:19:29] Nina Endrst: you like to know? So I was, I was, I was like eight and maybe seven or eight, and I was copying something in like a blue book and like writing and just so, because I'm a visual learner, I wanted to see what the, what it was made of before I started to write my own and my mom or dad walked in and they picked it up and we're like, oh my God, you're a genius.

And I just didn't correct them.

[00:19:55] Anna Toonk: I was like, you haven't been called

[00:19:57] Nina Endrst: that before, so, yeah, sure. And so, but anyway, I sat down and I was at, I was in the other room. It was when we first started dating and I just wrote this poem. And to this day, I don't even know where it came from or what happened, but it just, I tapped into something like so quickly, and I think it was.

Really interesting. What comes up and out when you will allow yourself to sift through all that you've absorbed and, and kind of create something from that.

[00:20:42] Anna Toonk: that's really interesting. This conscious mind versus the subconscious mind, which is from dia.com, P E D I a.com. I think if I'm reading their watermark correctly, the conscious mind does not depend on the accessible information. The subconscious mind depends only on the, on the accessible information. So it is coming from inside, you know, like it is coming, like from what you're saying, in terms of, you know, what you've absorbed or experiences or things like that, like.

I think that's like part of what freaks me out. Like I remember when I was in college and we had a dark room and you would print your photos, you know? And like when you would put them into the developer and you would just sort of cross your fingers and be like, please let something be there. You know, I always had this anxiety of like, I could occasionally do something cool, but then I couldn't replicate it or I couldn't.

And I think that, you know, like maybe I'm not afraid of the subconscious mind. I just like resent it of like, you'll let me access this magic. Or, you know, like what a tease, you know, like what a tease to sit down and you can suddenly write a poem. And you're like, where's that 364 other days of the, my poetry.

Yeah. Like, or not even like, I don't even think about it in terms of like, you know, like, yeah, like girl boss, I'm going now, new side hustle, poetry, um, known for all its uh, you know, it's revenue. It's funny. I was asking a friend who's really dedicated to poetry and stuff. And I was like, I forget why in terms of she's like, I actually think it she's like, well you definitely don't make money in poetry.

And, and she's like, in fact, Cost money to be in poetry. It was like this horrible realization. She was having Dawn on her about like what she was like really sort of dedicating herself to. And I'm like, ah, like for the record, I think you can make money doing anything. However, I don't think you have to make anything you're interested in a way of making money.

Totally. But more my thing is, is like for my own control issues or, or whatever, it's like, I just want to be able to do it again. I just want to be able to replicate it. Like even for myself, you know, of just like, oh, that's cool. Um, I think it loses

[00:23:08] Nina Endrst: its magic then

[00:23:08] Anna Toonk: though. Probably. I mean,

[00:23:12] Nina Endrst: if you can look back at, because you don't know right

[00:23:16] Anna Toonk: now, I literally close my eyes.

Like you could see me. And as if I had to, in order to look for it, you have to close your eyes. I have to imagine it.

[00:23:24] Nina Endrst: If you look back and you can pinpoint or, or remember a time where you, at the point at that time, you didn't know that you were acting from your

[00:23:34] Anna Toonk: subconscious.

[00:23:36] Nina Endrst: What was it? What happened?

What were you doing? What was the behavior? What was the belief? What was the fear?

[00:23:42] Anna Toonk: I think a lot of my relationships stuff across the board in my twenties was very much driven by subconscious stuff. You know, of just a real mishmash, real fears of abandonment. Like all that stuff that I sort of, my conscious mind knew way, like could, could say like, oh yeah, I have a fear of abandonment or whatever, but I think I was masking.

It with logic, but I, I had no, like, I hadn't even scratched the surface of what that shit meant and how, not just what it meant, what it meant to me and how it influenced me, you know? Like it's one thing to name the category. It's another thing to really understand how it manifests and drives you or when it gets triggered or when it shows up.

Like, I had no idea about that. Oh yeah. A lot of patterns, stuff, you know, of emotionally unavailable people or trying if, if someone showed any sort of like hesitance or rejection or whatever, I was like, I will try to convince you. Like, I think in my twenties, my subconscious was like, she doesn't seem to know what's up.

We've got the reins. Like I think I was very driven by my subconscious. Yeah. Like just kind of across the board, it's like, I can't really think of something. No,

[00:25:12] Nina Endrst: that's a, that's an example. It doesn't have

[00:25:15] Anna Toonk: to be specific. Yeah. Like, I can't think of like an incident that now I'm like, oh, upon reflection, you know, but I'm, I think that it was really helpful for me when I started to one understand like how our brains are made up and how we operate, you know, of like, I don't even think I understood how like feelings, you know, like for a long time I would just intellectualize everything.

[00:25:44] Nina Endrst: What I find fascinating about subconscious stuff is when it, when you realize what's been happening or when you realize what happened and make that connection. It's. I mean, I, I don't think it's like, I feel like an idiot, but it's kinda like, how did I fucking miss that? So

[00:26:05] Anna Toonk: I stayed at my therapist all the time.

Like, I feel stupid saying this, or I feel silly or I feel really dumb. I miss this or whatever, or like, I'll be like, I know this isn't a big statement, but I realized blah or whatever, but it always is. I don't know why we feel like we should know

[00:26:30] Nina Endrst: everything. Yeah. I mean, we've

[00:26:32] Anna Toonk: been told for a while. We can't, you know, and yet we're like, I didn't know that well that,

[00:26:37] Nina Endrst: and like, I remember I was talking to a client the other day and she's so smart and successful and, and established, and she's an adult.

And like, she's got it all, you know, together in so many ways. And we were talking about something to do. Subconscious and feelings and fears or whatever. And she was like, why don't we talk about this? Like, why don't they teach us about this? Like, she was genuinely like in outraged, but I remember being, I remember waking up to the fact that I had dated only unavailable men.

And it was like, so subconscious, like I, and I was like, are you like, would you, the giver of advice? You, the, the woman who was like, don't take shit from anybody. Like you didn't think that there was a, you didn't see the pattern here. You didn't, you didn't take that back to long, long ago. It just, I know it did until I knew I really did not.

Donna.

[00:27:37] Anna Toonk: I feel like you're maybe similar to me where like, I don't love a cliche hate, hate. Yeah. I had a feeling and I think sometimes those realizations feel like a cliche

[00:27:52] Nina Endrst: and like, I mean, not I'm, this is like just straight me, but I, I don't, I I'm not basic, like I don't.

[00:28:00] Anna Toonk: So I think like in regards to like my dad's death, like I think I was really hesitant to like really dive in and do the healing I needed to do, because I was so resistant to having like daddy issues because my dad had died, you know, that I was like, it was a nightmare, but I'm fine.

You know, like I was just, I was so resistant and then, well also it's like, it's complicated. So I thought like, I felt like the only thing I kind of needed to process immigrants, my dad was just like his death. I was like, yeah, it was like kind of a big deal, but whatever, like go figure that out. And it's like, no, there, there was more, it was like his whole life and his influence on me as it's not just that it was not just that day, not decide day then.

Just not just when he became a ghost dad. But like, I also think that some of that stuff that like gets imposed upon us about like, oh, she's got daddy issues or she's this, or whatever. Also bill makes us build up like another layer of resistance, the connecting those dots and of being like, well, I don't want to be like that.

Like, that's not good. You know, we're like, I don't like people having power over me. And I think sometimes like with those labels or like with the subconscious, I feel like sometimes people can have like a power over me. Cause like they see things I don't or something, I just don't. I just don't like it, you know?

And I felt so similarly when I realized I only was dating emotionally unavailable people and was like friends with a lot of emotionally unavailable people like, oh man, you know, I was like, it was like, I woke up and suddenly like looked around and was like, where am I? You know? And then also like, and I think that that was actually the big process of when my therapist was like, oh yes, she's realizing something like that.

I think she used the unavailable, um, emotionally unavailable people as a way to help to teach me about the subconscious and to also help me start letting go of shame to be like, you don't have to be ashamed of like, you can't know until, you know, so like you don't have to be ashamed of it. It's just sort of your choice, whether or not you want to bring this into your conscious mind now or not.

Oh, well,

[00:30:28] Nina Endrst: thank you for leading me into my next point, which is why so many people avoid doing any sort of deep work on themselves because, and I get it, especially at the beginning, it's very disorienting and a little bit just. Like, you've kind of come up for air and you're seeing all these things for the first time and it's overwhelming.

Yeah. But, and that's what I think a lot of people, you know, I worked with a client once who had sleep paralysis terrifying, and yeah, I'm not, obviously that's not my, I wasn't working with her on that. But what was so interesting is we worked together for probably a year, once a week. And then once every other week.

And when she started to kind of clean out a lot of this stuff, she stopped having it and she was confronting it in a different way. So because it was, and I, there are probably a million different reasons that it surfaces, but for her, I think she had so much that she just hadn't accessed or tapped into that.

It just all flooded her. When she went to sleep and she was literally frozen. So

[00:31:54] Anna Toonk: yeah,

[00:31:54] Nina Endrst: with dreams, I just, I find dreams so fascinating because they don't really make sense a lot of the time, but yet they're really

[00:32:04] Anna Toonk: revealing. Do you dream? I'm not a picture anymore, but that's because you

[00:32:11] Nina Endrst: literally are the most creative person from like the time you wake up to the time you go to sleep.

[00:32:15] Anna Toonk: Thank you. My mom also

[00:32:18] Nina Endrst: kind of, wouldn't be fair if you were like, I also have this really fantastic

[00:32:21] Anna Toonk: dream. I think that, um, I have like five big dreams a year. That'll really be very cinematic and like stick with me, you know? And I I'm grateful for it to be honest, because I still think about this dream where there were baby bats in it and they were the cutest things I've ever seen.

And it still makes me sad. I will never really be able to explain or show someone how cute these baby bats were because no one can be in my brain. So if I had that every night, I would, I would just, I mean, those stark raving, mad of not being able to share, like what's in my brain, but, um, I find it, I find dreams very interesting because.

Um, what am I trying to say without being an asshole? Again, I find people are a bit convenient about dreams as someone who doesn't dream a lot. So it's just not a tool. It's not a method of divination for me, you know, it's not, um, I don't think it's a way I connect with them so conscious. I, you know, it's funny.

I used to have nightmares though, when I was younger and I had nightmares about my dad's death, I would have recurring nightmares that, um, I had his planner and I, and I was on the phone with him and I couldn't and he'd be like, yeah, we'll do that next week. And, and I couldn't tell him that it stops that he, that he dies.

Yeah, that was fun. And that he faked his death. And so I would like see sort of like, kind of feeling crazy. Like I would think I would see him, you know, and then we found out he faked his death. Um, and I feel like there was one more, but anyway, those were were two. I would have them every single night for like five years and then they just went away.

And then after I had cancer, I would have a recurring dream about once a week for about, for several years that the cancer came back, which is not surprising, you know? Like it wasn't that scary, but it was that consistent. And I remember being kind of like, I'm just sort of over it. I think what, uh, and I remember being by the water and just being like, and talking to myself and just being like, it's totally fun.

Like during whenever you want, but like, can we dream some new stuff? I don't. I mean, maybe it was my higher self. I don't, I don't know. But like, I just heard this voice of like, well, just admit you're scared, you know, like just admit you are scared that it could come back that like, it was really fucking weird in the first place you went cancer.

It'd be really easy. Like, you don't know, it could come back. There could be re like that's a scary thing to live with, you know? And I was like, yeah, I've been playing it pretty cool. But, uh, yeah, I'm a little terrified when it w when, when it all comes down to it and just like, have this conversation with myself, which like, I wonder if I was literally talking to myself and be rolling.

It was just someone a moment. But, um, they stopped after that. And I haven't had one since, you know, which I find. So interestingly, sometimes I find it so interesting, but the subconscious link, when it can be really clear of like, oh, just, just admit you're scared. And then it's like the terrible end, you know?

And other times, I mean, I think it's because people love to tell me their dreams or be like, what do you think? Or like, do you think this means this? And I don't think. I mean anything except, uh, I don't think they're predictive. I don't know that. I don't know how I feel about them in terms of psychic stuff.

How do you feel about dreams with psychic stuff? I think they're more, I think they're just about us, you know, we're like there some, um, it's like our own movie about whatever we're wrestling with. I don't know that they're necessarily like predictive, if that makes sense. It does. I

[00:36:25] Nina Endrst: think it would. I think it's very rare that it would be, I don't think it's impossible, but I think it would be very

[00:36:32] Anna Toonk: rare.

I'm talking our run of the mill. Just dreaming, not something special, but just like your run of, I think, you know what I mean of the person who's like, you know, really wants a promotion and it's like, I had this dream and I saw gold and I think that means I'm going to get the promotion.

[00:36:52] Nina Endrst: Oh yeah, no, I know who you're talking about.

Not who, but I know what you're talking about.

[00:36:56] Anna Toonk: Yeah, I think I don't want

[00:36:58] Nina Endrst: no I don't, but I'm also of the mind of. Whatever people want to believe to believe as long as it's not harmful, doesn't bother me as long as that's not harmful.

[00:37:11] Anna Toonk: Yeah. That's fair. That's good. That's a good option. So what

[00:37:15] Nina Endrst: I, how I think of dreams is at night, when we go to sleep, there are things that maybe we remember, maybe we don't have our dreams.

I'm sure you dream just don't remember them, you know? And I think it's probably not possible while you do smoke a lot of weed. So I hung around. Maybe you just shut that down, but I think it's stuff clearing out. I think it's stuff that during the day has not been able to, you know, come through or, or come to the surface or be thought about.

And it's kind of like our subconscious way of taking care of us. So I often dream about people from my past, which is so annoying. Oh annoying, but it's like, it happens all the time and I'm like, I'm, I don't care about that person anymore. Like truly wish them the best I've released them, but apparently I haven't.

And so

and so I find it really rude, but also, you know, important to be like, okay, well what's my shit around that. You know, I don't think that's a coincidence. I think it's a message. And I think I have to, it would be, it would be helpful if I took that and, you know, sat with it a little bit. But I think when you use your dreams as, or when you honor your dreams, I should really say when you honor your dreams for whatever they are, and don't put too much weight onto them, don't make them mean this, that, or the other thing, but just let them, aluminate something they can be really.

[00:39:04] Anna Toonk: I mean, that's like a fair point, I think for kind of anything going on in your brain in a way, like, sometimes if you're just like give it a beat before you like, put anything on it, you know, like meaning attachment, that's often like what we need, you know, like to your point about what, like what your, um, I think client was talking about in terms of education.

Like I so wholeheartedly agree and also trauma, like the way trauma impacts the brain is fascinating as well, which can't be ruled out with the subconscious that that's directly where that resides. Why don't we tend?

[00:39:47] Nina Endrst: Yes, no, but I'm asking you why you think it is purposefully left. Um, I don't think nobody knows that this is useful information.

[00:39:58] Anna Toonk: I think it's so scary and threatening to people to really acknowledge we're not in control and that our brains, it's not like you can't think your way out of everything. You can't think your way to complete. Emotional and like success and wellbeing, you know, like I think that I was listening to, um, a podcast called, uh, last day, which I'll be huge, you know, like air horn, Wawa, like trigger warning.

It is, uh, season one is about the opioid crisis. Season two is about suicide, so, okay. Not uplifting. It is fascinating. And there was an episode about Dr. Jeremy not going to remember his last Richmond. Maybe he was a science brain scientist. I want to see maybe human behavior as well. I don't fully remember.

And he also lost his daughter in Sandy hook and he did all of this work around, you know, like what do we do? Like, what do we do when tragedy occurs? What are ways we can combat violence? Like, it seems like empathy is a huge tool for that, you know? And he also was like, let's quit calling it mental health and start calling it brain health.

And this is someone devoted to these things and he ended up, you know, ending his life and it's like, did. Yeah, he did. And something that was really interesting. I mean, this is someone who's an expert in all of this, you know, and has this personal experience. And one of his friends is on to talk about him and speak about N he also lost a child in Sandy hook.

That was part of why they were friends. And he was saying this isn't just for, um, people who lose a child. But in general, when people have suffered some sort of major event when they are at most risk is, is not in the, in the immediate timeframe. It's usually, I want to say the window begins at like seven years.

Jesus. I I've experienced that, you know, like I've experienced that with stuff being really walloped years later by something, and then gaslighting the shit out of myself of like, that happened so long ago. Why am I really upset now? Or like, why do I have all these feelings about that? You know? And yet there's all these studies.

And I think it's like, sort of like what we've seen in the U S with COVID of like, I mean, over a million people, I believe have died at this point. And people are still saying it's a cold, you know? And it's like, we just, I just think this stuff is so scary, you know, that we're this fragile in some ways that people are just like, Nope, I'd rather pretend it doesn't exist.

Okay. I think we're more fragile

[00:43:08] Nina Endrst: in the United States, then a lot of countries as well. I was one of my clients is dating an Afghan man who she, who escaped and. Who's a pilot and they were like, you can't leave. And he literally like flew away. I mean, I don't even know what that means. Right. But he was saying too, that there are, I don't know if it's that we're not really anchored in anything as a culture.

I know that sounds pretty

[00:43:39] Anna Toonk: extreme, but it's true though. You know, especially white people, white, like we don't really

[00:43:45] Nina Endrst: give a shit about community and we don't know how to live in them anymore. We don't like as a, as a call, like we're not doing so hot there. Yeah. And in service and gratitude, like all those things were like pretty, pretty, uh,

[00:44:01] Anna Toonk: dicey.

Yeah. It's why we like to steal it or buy it.

[00:44:04] Nina Endrst: Yeah, exactly. And so I do think a big part of why this stuff isn't taught or upheld or not upheld, but, um, celebrated or like put. On the same level as your conscious mind is because there's so much fear around what we'll find out about each other and ourselves and how, and like what we do about that.

And I think we're just ruled so much by fear. And I don't mean that in a gas lady choose love way. I never do, obviously. Yeah. But I feel like there's a lot of us using so little of us and yes, that's so sad and it's so normalized. And the people that are using bigger portions of themselves are ostracized or, you know, oppressed or, I mean, look at the way trans people are treated.

You know, I think like they're, they're trying to access. They're a huge part of themselves. Right. And it's so threatening to people.

[00:45:16] Anna Toonk: That in it literally affects no one

[00:45:19] Nina Endrst: individual one. And that it just, it's so sad because the older I get and the more, you know, I see and read, I'm like, we're just DS, fragile, fucking scared people who are just not, not rooted in reality and not allowing ourselves to also sit and be still and find out something that we don't know and be okay with that, that we didn't know that we can kind of, we can be okay in that.

[00:45:53] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Do you also, I mean, I'm going to come in kind of hot or something. Yeah. I also think that most Americans are huge spoiled babies. The most entitled. Even if you had a hard life, you know, like I still think most of us, like, I think we've had it pretty good. And I think that American society, the obsession with happiness.

And individualism just sets you on like acquiring and like all this stuff that I think also too is in direct opposition, like to the subconscious, like if we were going to really make an investment in mental health, in the us and actually like value brain health and value in like really give it the same importance that we give physical health, which is also laughable in our society as someone, I mean, I have health insurance, I've just gotten approved to go on a drug.

That's like, you know, I'm literally approved for, had been going through all this shit to get on it. And it still costs me almost $900 for it with insurance, like, fuck you America. As it comes to healthcare, you know, like it's just shocking shock 900. I got, I came home and I cried. Like, cause I can afford it.

It's like, do I want to spend my money on it? No, but like, I just really felt for the people who it's not an option and you know, an option for so many people. So many people. I mean, think, I mean, for, for this was full disclosure, it's a, it's a diabetic medication I've recently been diagnosed as having latent autoimmune diabetes and.

I've had to go through a lot to get this diagnosis. And like, I come from such a place of privilege. I can't afford to keep, you know, like knocking on doors and asking and saying, run this blood, you know, test. If, if my insurance doesn't cover rent, I'll pay for it. But it's crazy. It's so insane

[00:48:13] Nina Endrst: thousand dollars to get blood work minimum.

Like if it's out of

[00:48:17] Anna Toonk: network, It's like, what is the point of any of this? Or if so, and I, I lived in England where they have the NHS and yes, I know it's not perfect, but like I had excellent medical care that I never paid a penny for, you know, like it can be done. I mean, is, and the fucking

[00:48:38] Nina Endrst: United States, it's such a bunch of bullshit.

[00:48:41] Anna Toonk: This is why, like, when P when people who are like all Patriot or like you were, so number one, I'm like, we don't have health. It literally same.

[00:48:48] Nina Endrst: I'm like, you dumb fuck. Like take, yeah, take the American flag down. You don't even have fucking health insurance literally

[00:48:54] Anna Toonk: until we have universal health care.

Like, I don't want to do you proud

[00:48:56] Nina Endrst: about, I mean, yeah, it's great that we're not like in famine and

[00:49:01] Anna Toonk: like, Yeah, we have one running water. Like we're pretty good on water Flint. I mean, we don't give a shit that black people are being poisoned by water and the white people,

[00:49:10] Nina Endrst: white people have clean water

[00:49:11] Anna Toonk: for now, for now.

But I really think that if we were gonna look at these things, if we were going to really value this, prioritize it, treat it the same. Then think of all the things that would have to be acknowledged and changed and changed. Exactly. Like if we were, I mean, we can barely get people to acknowledge like white privilege.

We can't

[00:49:36] Nina Endrst: one can't, it's not true. A few it's not globally recognized. I would say how about men talking about my mom was literally just telling me about, she was in a doctor's office the other day and she heard two women laughing. And one of them I think was the practitioner was the practitioner and she came in.

And she said they were laughing and I hope that they're laughing on the right side of things that this guy, that this young boy, he just, he just doesn't know how to ask girls out anymore since you know the me too movement. He's just so he's just scared to talk to women now don't be at fucking rapist and you shouldn't be okay.

[00:50:10] Anna Toonk: Yeah. Oh yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Then I'm like, that's why, in my opinion, that's why it's not, if, if we were going to really teach it, we would have to acknowledge the power. It has. We would have to acknowledge that, like the whole idea of telling people to like bootstrap shit is like wrong and, and it's not taking into effect, you know, like what has happened to people or what role that plays on people.

Like, I think about it a lot in terms of athletes, because it's still like makes headlines when, when athletes talk about like, Their mental health. And I'm like, I imagined being treated like a performance machine as a human being. And like everyone being like, yeah, you're totally a person, but like, you're going to need to win this because like world depended on that, you know, like, and then people are shocked.

Like I was so proud of Naomi. Oh, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. And her being like I'm pulling out because I don't want to do breasts. It's bad on my mental health. I've talked about this numerous times and like not feeling supported and you know, by like the, I don't know, the tennis bullies. Um, but then like the tennis association.

[00:51:37] Nina Endrst: Oh yeah, yeah. Tennis. And there was a gymnast. Simone, was that her name?

[00:51:42] Anna Toonk: The gymnast Simone Biles. Cause she got lost, you know, in the middle of her tumbling. And like people are like, do we click? You're just a tumbler

[00:51:52] Nina Endrst: or all the fucking abuse that, I mean, and I,

[00:51:56] Anna Toonk: and people were like, come correct. She's a gold medalist.

She's a trauma survivor. Or she's a sexual abuse survivor who had to put all that shit on blast, not that long ago. And they were like also as a former gymnast, like, let me just tell you when that happens to you, you can die. Like you can fall and be paralyzed, like. Being responsible because she's also like, is a role model, but I'm like, Hey, how was that?

Like, how were people? I mean, you know, like everyone's brave, you know, behind the internet or, you know, in the stands or whatever, would they say it to her face? I highly doubt it. But that idea of like, oh no, get it. Or it's not that big a deal or like all of that sort of stuff. Um, just it's it's so silly to me.

I don't, I think link at this point, I feel a little. Depressed. It's a society that like, until we acknowledge this stuff, like, I don't know what progress is.

[00:52:55] Nina Endrst: It's not, I have decided that there will be no progress and I,

[00:53:02] Anna Toonk: uh, progress is canceled. We will let you

[00:53:05] Nina Endrst: know if that it doesn't mean that I will not stop doing.

And I think on a small scale, that's all you can really focus on because on a large scale, as far as progress, I mean, South Carolina this morning, I read, they're putting, you know, trying to pass the law right now to make abortion completely illegal, which would lead to 10 years in prison. If a woman got an abortion, like what do you mean progress?

Like, yeah. You know, the men, the cops who killed, oh, what is his name? I want to say his name. Right. There's just so many in Minneapolis. I have to figure out what his name is so that I can say it. I will, I will put that in the notes, but there was a black man who was killed. He was lying on a couch and

[00:53:48] Anna Toonk: yes, I saw that and

[00:53:50] Nina Endrst: they were not convicted.

What a shock and like progress, what, you know, like George Floyd, it does millions of other black Americans who were killed for absolutely no reason. I mean, what progress? There's no fucking progress. It's because it's convenient for very few people at the top to have things exactly the way that they are.

And then the people that, that, you know, helps they're all for it. You know, I just saw a bunch of Christians hanging out with like, thank you, thank you, Jesus. For Trump, it's like poor Jesus. It's like, he didn't ask for this. He didn't ask for this shit why I gotta bring Jesus into it. I'm sure he was a nice guy.

And like, this is just not, I don't think this is what the intense.

[00:54:38] Anna Toonk: I'm just imagining Jesus doing the light. Cut it. Like, no, like it's not. Yeah, it wasn't me. So,

[00:54:47] Nina Endrst: but I, I feel the more, we become more powerful and the more progress is possible when we allow ourselves to tap into this subconscious mind, to sit, to write, to meditate, to move, to, to be in conversation with it.

Or, or, and it's not with no goal, right. It doesn't have to be about manifesting. I'm so sick of that word. I can just vomit, but I just they've ruined everything. These, you know,

[00:55:19] Anna Toonk: these spiritual

[00:55:21] Nina Endrst: people who say things until they're watered down to no end, they're like PLA, but anyway, it's just, when you're, it's not about.

Getting something it's about knowing or accessing or just being more whole, right. And when we're more whole, we see things in a more holistic way. It nothing matters until it matters to so many Americans, right? Like gun violence.

[00:55:50] Anna Toonk: Oh my God. That's I mean, granted, I try not to be a virtual virtue Sigler, but I do, I do try to be aware and I try to be a conscious community member.

Yes, you did not to be a total fucking asshole, which apparently is my number three, number three. But like when someone's like, did you know that like trans women are called like a lot? I'm like, where have you been like got funny. Yes. Like for the average black trans woman or their, you know, life expectancy expectancy is like 35, you know, like in America, like, yes, this is a no

[00:56:30] Nina Endrst: problem because right now, if, and again, this is not about I'm better than you or you're better, whatever.

It's like, if, if we are not really that, no, it's not. However, if we, at this time in history don't know stuff, it is because you have chosen ignorance. And yeah, sorry, but that, that, there's no way around that truth and we've all chosen it. It's not like you can not choose it every day. In some way you don't have that doesn't mean that every single fight you have to be on the front lines of, but an awareness that this is happening, it is an, and what I was saying is like, if gun violence, gun violence, doesn't matter to a lot of humans until it's at their door.

Right. Poverty doesn't matter. War doesn't matter. Not that it's like, I don't give a shit about those people. Although some people are saying that, but it's more than. We don't have a capacity to hold truth as a society. We do not have the capacity to hold pain. We do not have a capacity to hold more than ourselves because we are not holding ourselves.

So how the fuck are we going to have compassion or be able to be like, Jesus Christ. That is a horrific thing that happened. I am sending this, I am going to do this. I'm going to then co go back to my life because I'm alive and I, and I'm going to live it, but I am going to acknowledge that person's pain or the collective pain and try to be better to that end.

Yeah.

[00:58:00] Anna Toonk: I really like what you're saying, because what you're touching on that I think is an important distinction is. I do think we don't, oh, we don't know people anything, but I do think we owe them witnessing. We owe them their truth and you can acknowledge what's happening to trans people, or you can acknowledge abortion rights.

You can acknowledge these things. You could acknowledge poverty, these sort of things, and not have to like, think you have to solve it or take it on board or whatever. Mike, I think a great kindness and healing thing you can do is to just not deny people's truth and just go like, that's really sad. And I don't like it and it makes me uncomfortable and I don't know what to do with it yet, but, but literally just acknowledging it.

I think. We owe people that, and I think it's something that's coming up, especially in the U S over and over again, of like, this is why things escalate the violence, because people are only going to ask to be seen so many times a hundred

[00:59:09] Nina Endrst: percent. And if we don't acknowledge ourselves, how will we know how to acknowledge others pain and stuff?

And I think a huge part of that is sitting with the fear stuff that we don't think about every day stuff that we don't consciously maybe know, but is there everywhere.

[00:59:26] Anna Toonk: Yeah, I was going to ask you, you've seen people fight. They're so conscious because they're afraid they won't like it. And, but I, I think we have essentially a hundred percent answered that.

[00:59:37] Nina Endrst: Um, yes, my answer would be here zoning. Yes.

[00:59:43] Anna Toonk: Yeah. They're like, don't call me, I'll call you subconscious. Never right now. So if somebody wanted to be more in dialogue with their subconscious, what do you or top wanted to start? Yeah. How, how would you suggest they start doing,

[01:00:02] Nina Endrst: you can access your subconscious. I would, some of my personal faves are sometimes I like to just sit and have tea and be quiet when that's available and just like close by.

Movement is always huge for me because it takes me somewhere that I don't, that I wouldn't go. And also it allows me to release things that I know that I store and also can't put language to sometimes. Hmm. And that's a huge part of the subconscious I think is, is yet it's in your mind, but it affects your, your whole being.

So I like to move it. And you know, my meditation practice is not, is not something that is traditional, I'd say, but I know that does help a lot of people. So if meditating is your thing or, you know, breathing consciously while sitting is your thing, I think that's really helpful to access it and even lying in bed and putting your legs up the wall before you're going to bed.

Just kind of be all those things I think are easy. Also shower, shower times. Really good when you're washing yourself off bath or shower.

[01:01:14] Anna Toonk: And you

[01:01:14] Nina Endrst: can say like, turn off, like you can turn off your conscious mind, not completely, but you can, you can be in conversation with it where you're like, I'm turning the dial down on that and allowing something else.

[01:01:29] Anna Toonk: That's what I was going to say to people. Just start notice when you feel that way, like when do you feel like maybe if you're someone who has a really rocketed, like inner monologue going all the time or something like, when is that quiet? You know? And like, I used to tell people whenever they had to have a big conversation with someone to like go for a walk, cause like not looking at each other sometimes just like kind of having an activity, like you could have a bigger conversation or something like it would feel better.

So I think it's sort of like a similar thing. When, when are you able to sort of like be chill with yourself? You know, that it's not as maybe focused on something.

[01:02:12] Nina Endrst: Well, thanks for coming on this journey with us people.

[01:02:15] Anna Toonk: We do appreciate it. I really

[01:02:17] Nina Endrst: do. And I don't feel like we were that stoner rush at all.

Actually.

[01:02:21] Anna Toonk: No, I thought it was to be like this college is me. Is it cheers?

[01:02:35] Nina Endrst: That's all for today's

[01:02:35] Anna Toonk: episode. If you're interested in submitting a topic or want to submit a question for advice episode, please join our membership community@howtobehumanpod.com. Thanks for listening. And remember we're guides, not gurus.