1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,960 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learned the importance of doing CAD design and a design for manufacturing method from a senior industrial design expert. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:16,720 Kevin Mako: This is the Product Startup Podcast, a show to learn from top leaders in hardware product development, prototyping, manufacturing, product selling, and everything in between. 3 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,540 Kevin Mako: Hosted by Kevin Mako, the leading expert on product development for hardware startups. 4 00:00:22,220 --> 00:00:25,940 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. Today I'm very excited to introduce Paul Davis to the show. 5 00:00:26,340 --> 00:00:29,980 Kevin Mako: Paul is a senior industrial designer at our very own Mako Design for almost 10 years. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:36,100 Kevin Mako: He achieved Honours status in his degree in product design engineering and industrial design at the 7 00:00:36,100 --> 00:00:39,820 Kevin Mako: University of Edinburgh. Today, Paul is going to share some valuable knowledge for inventors, 8 00:00:39,940 --> 00:00:44,660 Kevin Mako: startups, and small manufacturers on the difference between basic CAD and design for manufacturing. 9 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,660 Kevin Mako: Why it's so important to do design for manufacturing from the beginning of the design process 10 00:00:49,660 --> 00:00:55,160 Kevin Mako: and best practices to designing a great product to be producible and be a big success in the market. 11 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:56,660 Kevin Mako: Now on to the episode. 12 00:00:57,690 --> 00:01:00,050 Kevin Mako: This show is produced by Mako Design. 13 00:01:00,350 --> 00:01:05,230 Kevin Mako: original firm providing end-to-end consumer product development services tailored specifically 14 00:01:05,230 --> 00:01:11,350 Kevin Mako: to hardware startups, small manufacturers, and inventors. Take your product from idea to store shelves 15 00:01:11,350 --> 00:01:17,041 Kevin Mako: at MakoDesign.com. Now on to the episode. Hey, Paul, welcome to the show. 16 00:01:17,041 --> 00:01:18,260 Paul Davis: Thanks for having 17 00:01:18,260 --> 00:01:18,764 Paul Davis: me on. 18 00:01:18,764 --> 00:01:22,800 Kevin Mako: I'm excited to have you on the show today to talk about design for manufacturing, 19 00:01:23,100 --> 00:01:29,420 Kevin Mako: why it's so important, not just a major differentiation between just regular designing a product idea 20 00:01:29,420 --> 00:01:34,020 Kevin Mako: versus designing specifically for manufacturing a product, but why it's so important 21 00:01:34,020 --> 00:01:39,840 Kevin Mako: to be considering and building in, planning for, and doing design for manufacturing early in 22 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,620 Kevin Mako: the industrial design process for a new hardware product. Before we jump into all that, 23 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,760 Kevin Mako: Paul, just give us a bit of a background of how you got to the success that you are today. 24 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,960 Paul Davis: Yeah, absolutely. So I graduated from Edinburgh and Napier University for the design, 25 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,480 Paul Davis: and there was also the engineering side as well. So not only were we designing to make something 26 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:02,520 Paul Davis: to look clean, sexy, and appealing for the market. We also understood the engineering 27 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:07,620 Paul Davis: behind it, how it's going to be made. The materials you need to use to get to market and ensuring things 28 00:02:07,620 --> 00:02:12,880 Paul Davis: are cost-effective to make. Combining those two skill sets made a very useful degree, 29 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:19,580 Paul Davis: I had the privilege in Switzerland where I specialized in working on prototype design and figuring 30 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:25,040 Paul Davis: out the nuts and bolts before working on designing for production. So that was kind of my 31 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,160 Paul Davis: degree before I moved to Toronto in 2012. 32 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,980 Paul Davis: where I did a six-month internship at Mako before I got hired. 33 00:02:31,140 --> 00:02:32,280 Paul Davis: So here we're at today. 34 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:38,300 Kevin Mako: Yeah, almost 10 years later, worked on countless amount of products, dozens upon dozens that 35 00:02:38,300 --> 00:02:43,080 Kevin Mako: are on the shelves that people can buy today at major retailers, on Amazon, you name it. 36 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:48,700 Kevin Mako: Paul's name is behind many of these that you see on the shelves behind me, actually, and obviously 37 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:51,920 Kevin Mako: many that are in the Mako showrooms and so on across our studios. 38 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:57,420 Kevin Mako: So today, I really want to talk about the importance of those early stages. 39 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:01,760 Kevin Mako: of design. This is a really critical juncture. A lot of the time it's something, especially 40 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:09,260 Kevin Mako: non-technical hardware founders, don't really put a lot of emphasis on or understand the importance of 41 00:03:09,260 --> 00:03:16,040 Kevin Mako: the early ideation and design phases, although it may seem relatively simple or, and likely is 42 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,500 Kevin Mako: relatively lower costs than maybe some of the more hardcore engineering and prototyping subsequent phases, 43 00:03:21,180 --> 00:03:26,660 Kevin Mako: the reality behind that is this is arguably your most important phase. This is the entire platform, 44 00:03:26,660 --> 00:03:30,920 Kevin Mako: the infrastructure, the base of everything that you do going forward. 45 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:36,800 Kevin Mako: Not only can it ensure that your design is great, not only can it ensure that your design is 46 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,720 Kevin Mako: manufacturable, but it will save you a lot of money as well in the development process if 47 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,280 Kevin Mako: you build it correctly from the beginning. 48 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:50,560 Kevin Mako: So, Paul, talk a bit about what the difference is between just roughing up some 3D CAD design 49 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:56,180 Kevin Mako: versus developing that industrial design and CAD design specifically for manufacturing, 50 00:03:56,180 --> 00:03:58,200 Kevin Mako: traditional design for manufacturing logic. 51 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:03,120 Paul Davis: Yeah, absolutely. And just to your point that, Kev, like the main reason companies and vendors 52 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,600 Paul Davis: come to Mako for help is they want their products in store shelves. They don't want to paint a pretty 53 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:13,640 Paul Davis: PDF picture and go, hey, I'm happy now, you know. So our goal is to really, on the early stage of CAD, 54 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,140 Paul Davis: where we're just conceptualizing, here's how we want it to look in the future. This is the main 55 00:04:18,140 --> 00:04:23,620 Paul Davis: goal all the way through to, okay, this product is now manufacturable. We've considered the 56 00:04:23,620 --> 00:04:26,160 Paul Davis: materials. We've considered the surface fitness. 57 00:04:26,180 --> 00:04:29,960 Paul Davis: the textures, how this part is actually going to be physically made. 58 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,600 Paul Davis: When we are working on the early stage concept CAD design, that CAD file, we will use all the way 59 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:42,760 Paul Davis: through to the final production unit. So talk about that more detail. The concept design is typically just 60 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:48,280 Paul Davis: this is how it's going to look from an external standpoint. When we move into prototyping rounds, 61 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:53,020 Paul Davis: we're looking at potentially doing three prototypes, including like a nice, clean, simple 62 00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:56,160 Paul Davis: mock up to get an idea of form factor and how this part could work. 63 00:04:56,180 --> 00:05:01,440 Paul Davis: through to a more mechanical, detailed, pre-production prototype where we're kind of ironed out 64 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:06,140 Paul Davis: the kinks. We know what this thing is going to feel, the form factor, the ergonomics, the mechanics 65 00:05:06,140 --> 00:05:10,820 Paul Davis: of the part. Pretty much dialed in. From experience, my most successful products on the market 66 00:05:10,820 --> 00:05:15,300 Paul Davis: are the simple ones. They don't have many bells and whistles, which you've probably had in the 67 00:05:15,300 --> 00:05:20,820 Paul Davis: podcast a few times. It's simple to make. They're easy to make. Tooling costs are low. That can get your 68 00:05:20,820 --> 00:05:25,140 Paul Davis: first product off the ground and running. You've highlighted a couple of really important things in there. 69 00:05:25,140 --> 00:05:31,040 Kevin Mako: First of all, designing for simplicity. That is a key element of design for manufacturing 70 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:35,420 Kevin Mako: and something, again, that is typically overlooked by non-technical founders or first-time founders 71 00:05:35,420 --> 00:05:40,040 Kevin Mako: for hardware startups. When you think of your original product idea, first thing comes to mind 72 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:45,280 Kevin Mako: as all these bells and whistles and accessories and variety of different features that could be 73 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:51,040 Kevin Mako: added into the product. But the reality, especially as a hardware startup, is simplicity equal success. 74 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:54,880 Kevin Mako: So the more that you can factor in reducing features, 75 00:05:55,140 --> 00:06:00,800 Kevin Mako: But focusing on quality of the fewer features that you have, that's how you get a great starting 76 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:06,000 Kevin Mako: product to market. We talk a lot about MVP on the show, minimum viable product. And it's really 77 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,580 Kevin Mako: important to understand, especially in the hardware space, and which is very different than software, 78 00:06:10,020 --> 00:06:14,880 Kevin Mako: is MVP means that, yes, you've reduced features, but of the fewer features you have, 79 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:20,740 Kevin Mako: you focus on quality. And that is really instrumental in terms of the design. And that 80 00:06:20,740 --> 00:06:24,880 Kevin Mako: happens all the way back into the original ideation and first 81 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,260 Kevin Mako: CAD modeling that you do. You start obviously with some basic form and structured feature 82 00:06:29,260 --> 00:06:33,640 Kevin Mako: sets, et cetera, that's built through sketching and a variety of other tools and processes that we have 83 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:38,240 Kevin Mako: in our tool belt to pull the idea onto paper and to make sure that it's a really good product market 84 00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:43,500 Kevin Mako: fit. But when you've got through that portion of it, you start actually building the CAD, you want to be 85 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:48,820 Kevin Mako: thinking about how you're actually designing that CAD to be a producible product in the end. 86 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,660 Kevin Mako: And that's something as well that you mentioned, Paul. The second thing that I like that you highlighted 87 00:06:52,660 --> 00:06:58,020 Kevin Mako: there is utilizing the software and the technology and the knowledge right from your 88 00:06:58,020 --> 00:07:03,420 Kevin Mako: initial CAD model all the way through to manufacturing, because that is also a big difference. You don't 89 00:07:03,420 --> 00:07:08,440 Kevin Mako: want to start with just roughing up, let's call it computer graphics or computer game software to 90 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:14,660 Kevin Mako: visualize and interpret your actual 3D model because you're already past that face. Now, when you're 91 00:07:14,660 --> 00:07:19,160 Kevin Mako: building your CAD model, do it right from the beginning. So you build it in global caliber 92 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,640 Kevin Mako: manufacturing CAD software so that the foundation. 93 00:07:22,660 --> 00:07:26,880 Kevin Mako: is strong. And as you go through your prototyping faces, you're tweaking and refining and 94 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,900 Kevin Mako: perfecting that model all the way through to and including production and even including 95 00:07:30,900 --> 00:07:36,260 Kevin Mako: scaling up production. That model is the exact same CAD model, just obviously modified and 96 00:07:36,260 --> 00:07:42,360 Kevin Mako: improved as it goes through these various steps. So, Paul, talk about a few of the actual manufacturing 97 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Kevin Mako: considerations when you're designing the product. I want to get a bit more into the details here in terms 98 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:52,600 Kevin Mako: of like parts, materials, OEM versus non, custom, et cetera, that sort of stuff that really 99 00:07:52,660 --> 00:07:57,980 Kevin Mako: drives some of that design for manufacturing logic into your original industrial design 100 00:07:57,980 --> 00:07:58,580 Kevin Mako: CAD models. 101 00:07:59,040 --> 00:07:59,560 Paul Davis: Yeah, absolutely. 102 00:07:59,780 --> 00:08:04,160 Paul Davis: And to your point about using the same software from the very beginning, it gives us the 103 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:12,500 Paul Davis: opportunity to really focus on how this part or product is going to be made from a very early stage. 104 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,920 Paul Davis: We don't have to always go full detail right away, but we do have the ability to be like, okay, 105 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,360 Paul Davis: we can get the dimensions rough then. 106 00:08:20,860 --> 00:08:22,640 Paul Davis: We know exactly how big this. 107 00:08:22,660 --> 00:08:28,200 Paul Davis: part will be considering future manufacturing processes. It doesn't always have to be, 108 00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:33,560 Paul Davis: I call it a blue sky design. This thought, it was engineering fought behind it already from an early stage. 109 00:08:33,980 --> 00:08:38,060 Paul Davis: I always like to tell my clients that we still have to go through prototyping, but we are thinking 110 00:08:38,060 --> 00:08:42,000 Paul Davis: about how this part's going to be made in the future from the get-go. They always kind of feel more 111 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:46,200 Paul Davis: confident knowing that we're not just painting a PDF is what I usually say. It's like we're 112 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,420 Paul Davis: actually putting thought behind it. And the engineering team that we have on board is the skills across 113 00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:55,040 Paul Davis: the border just with one next level. So we're very, very lucky to have the tools and resources 114 00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,520 Paul Davis: on site to do that. So, but to your point, talking more towards what changes need to be made 115 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:06,240 Paul Davis: moving into CAD. This is where we really get in the nitty-gritty and detailing of the CAD model, 116 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,940 Paul Davis: where it really depends from experience. Typically, I either work alongside that tooling engineer, 117 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:17,200 Paul Davis: and they'll send the CAD back with the CAD changes that they need made in order to make it suitable 118 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,400 Paul Davis: for manufacturing. So to your point, Kevin, about the manufacturing concept. 119 00:09:20,420 --> 00:09:25,320 Paul Davis: considerations in the early stages of the concept CAD design, we get to the stage where at the end 120 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,220 Paul Davis: of the day, we want this product to be cost-effective to make. Does that mean we have to use off-the-shelf 121 00:09:29,220 --> 00:09:35,260 Paul Davis: parts? Does that mean we have to use a certain material or manufacturing process to achieve that? 122 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,320 Paul Davis: These are the type of mechanical things and manufacturing things we're thinking about from an early 123 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:45,540 Paul Davis: stage. So I can use our product as an example. We knew this part was going to be injection molded 124 00:09:45,540 --> 00:09:50,400 Paul Davis: from ABS plastic, for example. And we knew that we had the rough end. 125 00:09:50,420 --> 00:09:55,980 Paul Davis: CAD from the original concept. Prototyping CAD was good, but now we have to make an 126 00:09:55,980 --> 00:10:00,860 Paul Davis: injection molding tool for this. How do we do that? We have to consider many factors. Draft angles 127 00:10:00,860 --> 00:10:05,420 Paul Davis: need to be considered when we're talking about injection molded parts. Depending on the size of the 128 00:10:05,420 --> 00:10:11,060 Paul Davis: part or the size of the tool, the draft angle can have an impact on the overall final appearance 129 00:10:11,060 --> 00:10:16,740 Paul Davis: of the part. So we have to consider that from an early stage as well. Is this part interlocking 130 00:10:16,740 --> 00:10:20,400 Paul Davis: into a second piece? We have to look at tolerances. We have to look at how this 131 00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:24,880 Paul Davis: parts going to be fastened through a second piece. So from an early stage, we're considering 132 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:30,460 Paul Davis: are we using OEM parts? Are we using custom parts? What can we get away with to make sure that 133 00:10:30,460 --> 00:10:36,080 Paul Davis: we're making a cost-effective design to mass produce? Because that is our end goal. Our goal is to 134 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,720 Paul Davis: ensure our clients are making cost-effective and quality designs for them to move into mass production. 135 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,820 Paul Davis: And it all starts from that original CAD design, where we're always considering 136 00:10:44,820 --> 00:10:50,360 Paul Davis: in these form factors and manufacturing constraints moving forward into more refined CAD. 137 00:10:50,420 --> 00:10:54,320 Kevin Mako: Yeah, that's so important, especially to do from the early design phases, because if you can think 138 00:10:54,320 --> 00:11:00,300 Kevin Mako: of all these elements and understand how they all fit together, then it makes it exponentially easier as you 139 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:05,960 Kevin Mako: jump into prototyping to isolate certain things that you can't tell. What are some of the unique facets 140 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:12,220 Kevin Mako: of this product that we really have to test in order to ensure and just focus on improving those things? 141 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:16,340 Kevin Mako: The other things we know, we've already designed it for manufacturing, we've got good quality parts 142 00:11:16,340 --> 00:11:20,380 Kevin Mako: and all of the elements of draft angles and part tolerances. 143 00:11:20,420 --> 00:11:23,700 Kevin Mako: and materials specification documents, et cetera, are solid. 144 00:11:23,980 --> 00:11:28,200 Kevin Mako: But if we drill down into the parts that we're really not sure of, maybe something connects, 145 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:29,200 Kevin Mako: is there a weak point? 146 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:30,160 Kevin Mako: What are the stress points? 147 00:11:30,420 --> 00:11:35,680 Kevin Mako: It allows us to hyper-isolate on those things as we move into prototyping phases so that we're 148 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:40,580 Kevin Mako: not testing a whole variety of random things and we're isolating on really just the breakpoints 149 00:11:40,580 --> 00:11:41,420 Kevin Mako: or the unknowns. 150 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:44,720 Kevin Mako: And that's how you can create a great product because every product is unique. 151 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:49,160 Kevin Mako: Even if it's a relatively simple product, there's going to be a handful of custom things on that 152 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:54,360 Kevin Mako: product that is unique to you that will have its own challenges that need to be solved. 153 00:11:54,500 --> 00:11:56,900 Kevin Mako: It's always the case with really any hardware product. 154 00:11:57,580 --> 00:12:02,580 Kevin Mako: So as you get into the prototyping phase, if you've really built out a strong CAD model with 155 00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:07,100 Kevin Mako: a lot of the redundancies built in from day one, then it allows you really to build the best 156 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:09,220 Kevin Mako: possible product also considering cost. 157 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,180 Kevin Mako: So you're both focusing on quality and cost at the same time. 158 00:12:12,180 --> 00:12:15,540 Kevin Mako: So fundamentally, building the platform strong is extremely helpful. 159 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,880 Paul Davis: I always see the clients early on and something scares them off, but 160 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:25,020 Paul Davis: nine times out of ten that doesn't is you don't want to go into your product development 161 00:12:25,020 --> 00:12:27,460 Paul Davis: journey and jump straight to production. 162 00:12:27,860 --> 00:12:34,580 Paul Davis: I know this touches more on the prototyping side, but you don't want to drop, say, 50K on 163 00:12:34,580 --> 00:12:37,220 Paul Davis: tooling for a hinge not to work, for example. 164 00:12:37,620 --> 00:12:40,300 Paul Davis: It's very hard to change tooling once you've committed to it. 165 00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:44,440 Paul Davis: So prototype, prototype, prototype until you get to the stage where you're really confident 166 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:48,640 Paul Davis: and then that's where we start to dissect the CAD, get it manufactured already. 167 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,820 Paul Davis: We talk to engineers, these tooling experts don't what they're talking about, 168 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,900 Paul Davis: and we can get a really nice production of ongoing. 169 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:00,420 Paul Davis: I also like to mention that even when you do get to the stage where you're made tooling for your part, 170 00:13:00,980 --> 00:13:03,240 Paul Davis: they're not just going to pump out your first 1,000 units. 171 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:08,540 Paul Davis: You will get to see a production sample to make any final adjustments that you want to make. 172 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:11,260 Paul Davis: Do one final checkover and make sure you're happy. 173 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,020 Paul Davis: Because that's that question I get asked a lot. 174 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:14,220 Paul Davis: It's like, that's it. 175 00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:17,340 Paul Davis: We're going to just make a thousand units and we're selling them now. 176 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:18,700 Paul Davis: It's like, no, no, you have time. 177 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,540 Paul Davis: You have time to have a look. 178 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,860 Paul Davis: Ideally, you don't have to make any changes at that point because it can be, 179 00:13:24,300 --> 00:13:26,740 Paul Davis: there's a lot more complex to make tooling changes. 180 00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:31,360 Paul Davis: But it's always nice to know that you will have that final unit in your hand before you 181 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:32,000 Paul Davis: pull the trigger. 182 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,180 Kevin Mako: Yeah, I mean, that's always a super helpful pace. 183 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:35,320 Kevin Mako: It's usually an exciting thing. 184 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,480 Kevin Mako: And this whole thing comes around the theme is if you invest a little bit more up front 185 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,720 Kevin Mako: for every phase following, it makes those phases easier, faster, smoother. 186 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,860 Kevin Mako: If you look at the life cycle of a product from Sketch all the way through to 187 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:49,980 Kevin Mako: scaling up production. 188 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,340 Kevin Mako: Those who really designed and built and thought the product through early 189 00:13:54,340 --> 00:14:00,720 Kevin Mako: are going to spend exponentially less than those that thought they were saving money by cutting 190 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:01,380 Kevin Mako: corners. 191 00:14:01,820 --> 00:14:06,340 Kevin Mako: Those corners that you cut become way more expensive down the road. 192 00:14:06,340 --> 00:14:11,040 Kevin Mako: And although a lot of people like to pass the buck forward when they think it, you know, 193 00:14:11,060 --> 00:14:15,320 Kevin Mako: makes sense to save a couple bucks today, just know that at some point that day is going to 194 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:15,880 Kevin Mako: arrive. 195 00:14:16,060 --> 00:14:18,500 Kevin Mako: And it's going to be a very problematic and difficult day. 196 00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:21,240 Kevin Mako: There's already enough challenges in developing a new product. 197 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,720 Kevin Mako: So if you do it well, then you can seriously eliminate the vast majority of those challenges, 198 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:32,340 Kevin Mako: again, so that you can isolate on the very few unique, specialized challenges to really 199 00:14:32,340 --> 00:14:34,000 Kevin Mako: create amazing IP in a great product. 200 00:14:34,140 --> 00:14:35,780 Kevin Mako: That's what makes for an amazing product. 201 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,680 Kevin Mako: You've thought both about the user, but also the manufacturability, the quality standpoint, 202 00:14:41,060 --> 00:14:44,300 Kevin Mako: and simplicity of the product, especially as a hardware startup. 203 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:48,480 Kevin Mako: One of the things that we typically drill down on in the actual actual. 204 00:14:48,500 --> 00:14:51,900 Kevin Mako: industrial design phase is what we call concept mechanical. 205 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:58,080 Kevin Mako: And this is where you're not just doing typical visual design, but the mechanical engineering 206 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,160 Kevin Mako: that actually builds the foundation of the product as well underneath. 207 00:15:01,260 --> 00:15:05,100 Kevin Mako: And that's a lot of the concepts we're talking about are looped into this overarching 208 00:15:05,100 --> 00:15:10,120 Kevin Mako: concept of concept mechanical engineering, essentially building out as much of the 209 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:14,600 Kevin Mako: internal mechanics and ribbing, et cetera, that builds, let's call it the internal 210 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,160 Kevin Mako: skeleton of the project, so that the external works well. 211 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:20,260 Kevin Mako: The features, functions, et cetera. 212 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:22,860 Kevin Mako: Now, it's not exactly as clear cut as that. 213 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,600 Kevin Mako: Sometimes the external is the internal is the internal, but the point being is that you've got to focus 214 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:32,400 Kevin Mako: both on function, aesthetics, sexiness, modernness, as well as detailed engineering, 215 00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:36,460 Kevin Mako: engineering, engineering, planning, part procurement, et cetera, so that you have both 216 00:15:36,460 --> 00:15:38,640 Kevin Mako: in order to really manufacture great product. 217 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:40,240 Paul Davis: You're finding that balance. 218 00:15:40,660 --> 00:15:41,740 Paul Davis: You want to spend the function. 219 00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:42,980 Paul Davis: You want it to be quality. 220 00:15:43,100 --> 00:15:44,020 Paul Davis: You want to be cost effective. 221 00:15:44,380 --> 00:15:45,760 Paul Davis: But you also want it to be eye pop. 222 00:15:46,020 --> 00:15:47,460 Paul Davis: You want people that want to buy this. 223 00:15:47,740 --> 00:15:48,480 Paul Davis: Once you strike. 224 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:53,100 Paul Davis: that perfect balance between aesthetics, function, quality, cost effective. 225 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,520 Paul Davis: You can really, really build on that first product. 226 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:56,840 Paul Davis: And that's when it gets exciting. 227 00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:00,340 Paul Davis: That's definitely the perks of this job is getting it to that stage. 228 00:16:00,620 --> 00:16:02,200 Paul Davis: The seeing client success stories. 229 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:03,120 Paul Davis: It's heartwarming. 230 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:05,880 Kevin Mako: That's one of the most beautiful parts of the job. 231 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,620 Kevin Mako: It's that transition from, you put all this work into all that development, design, engineering, 232 00:16:11,820 --> 00:16:16,180 Kevin Mako: prototyping, getting everything prepared for manufacturing, getting manufacturing set up, 233 00:16:16,460 --> 00:16:18,480 Kevin Mako: doing the production sample, making sure that. 234 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:21,720 Kevin Mako: that production sample is perfect based on everything that's been done up to that point 235 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,060 Kevin Mako: in time, and then actually seeing your units start to hit the shell. 236 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:27,380 Kevin Mako: So that really is a special moment. 237 00:16:27,580 --> 00:16:28,880 Kevin Mako: I like how you put it, heartwarming. 238 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:34,720 Kevin Mako: That's the perfect way to describe it because it's really a magical moment where you go from 239 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,480 Kevin Mako: investing into the business to now starting to flip the switch. 240 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,680 Kevin Mako: It'd be like, okay, let's start scaling up sales. 241 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,220 Kevin Mako: Let's start monetizing this, start making money and bringing it in. 242 00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:45,500 Kevin Mako: And then expanding the brand. 243 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,320 Kevin Mako: And I think what's so amazing, especially for first-time founders, 244 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:53,960 Kevin Mako: Once you understand the process of how to design develop a product well from the beginning, 245 00:16:54,320 --> 00:17:00,700 Kevin Mako: you see it go through, you see it come to life, all of a sudden, it enhances your ability of a founder 246 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:07,000 Kevin Mako: to execute on those ideas, not just on the first product that you developed, but from there, 247 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:12,980 Kevin Mako: you almost always inevitably start coming up with the pro version or the accessories for this 248 00:17:12,980 --> 00:17:14,680 Kevin Mako: or different markets for the product. 249 00:17:15,180 --> 00:17:17,700 Kevin Mako: And then that is how really brands start. 250 00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:21,560 Kevin Mako: If you look at all the world's major hardware brands, they started somewhere. 251 00:17:21,820 --> 00:17:27,200 Kevin Mako: They almost always started one relatively simple product that solved a very important pain point 252 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,780 Kevin Mako: for a handful of people. 253 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,160 Kevin Mako: And then from there, they scaled. 254 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:35,020 Kevin Mako: And that's the best way that you can look at a hardware startup especially is start small. 255 00:17:35,140 --> 00:17:40,900 Kevin Mako: We talk about MVP, strip down the features, spend less with your industrial design firm on less 256 00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:44,320 Kevin Mako: features, but of the features that you do, make sure you nail those out of the part. 257 00:17:44,740 --> 00:17:47,480 Kevin Mako: High quality, cost effective, built to global standards. 258 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:48,820 Kevin Mako: all of the rest that we talk about. 259 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:52,140 Kevin Mako: And if you do it that way, you have an amazing product that hits the market. 260 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,700 Kevin Mako: You start to scale that and then you start developing your next iterations or inventions. 261 00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:00,340 Kevin Mako: Or if the product continues to sell and you just want to focus on sales, sales, 262 00:18:00,340 --> 00:18:03,840 Kevin Mako: sales, and profitability, then you ride that wave, sometimes for years. 263 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,340 Kevin Mako: People will ride one product for decades. 264 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:08,680 Kevin Mako: So it's totally up to you as the founder. 265 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,480 Kevin Mako: And obviously, the hard work's going into that. 266 00:18:11,580 --> 00:18:15,420 Kevin Mako: But I think the biggest point of this podcast is start early on that process, 267 00:18:15,420 --> 00:18:17,520 Kevin Mako: start early doing things the right way. 268 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:22,200 Kevin Mako: And that smooths everything out for you going down the channel and getting that business off the ground. 269 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,940 Paul Davis: Yeah, honestly, like, it really is the reason I love working at Mako. 270 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:27,340 Paul Davis: A lot of success stories. 271 00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:32,620 Paul Davis: And being able to actually purchase something from a store that you made is always really rewarding. 272 00:18:32,860 --> 00:18:34,720 Paul Davis: So I look forward to many more projects. 273 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,800 Paul Davis: And like you mentioned, like, come up a nice, simple idea. 274 00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,420 Paul Davis: It may be sound too simple at the start, but you'll get there. 275 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,900 Paul Davis: Although we have a wide range of diverse products, I've brought textile products to market, 276 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,400 Paul Davis: mechanical handheld tools. 277 00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:53,520 Paul Davis: They all have one thing in common, and it's the disk keep it nice and simple, few parts and very easy 278 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:54,200 Paul Davis: to manufacture. 279 00:18:54,660 --> 00:18:58,120 Paul Davis: I think if you take those three boxes, you are setting yourself up for success. 280 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,180 Paul Davis: It's really rewarding to get to that stage. 281 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,120 Kevin Mako: Well, Paul, thanks so much for all your words of wisdom. 282 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,020 Paul Davis: Thanks for having me, Ken. 283 00:19:04,140 --> 00:19:04,680 Paul Davis: Absolutely pleasure. 284 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:05,260 Kevin Mako: Thanks, Paul. 285 00:19:05,260 --> 00:19:06,240 Kevin Mako: I appreciate being on the show. 286 00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:07,300 Kevin Mako: We'll talk again soon. 287 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:07,580 Kevin Mako: Cheers. 288 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,500 Kevin Mako: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast. 289 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,500 Kevin Mako: If you found some value in the show, please do us a huge favor and hit the light. 290 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:20,580 Kevin Mako: button and subscribe. If you have any questions, guest suggestions, or anything else, 291 00:19:20,780 --> 00:19:27,600 Kevin Mako: feel free to reach out to us anytime at our email, podcast at MakoDesign.com. This show is hosted 292 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,640 Kevin Mako: by Kevin Mako, North America's leading expert on product development for hardware startups. 293 00:19:32,940 --> 00:19:38,000 Kevin Mako: And the podcast is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing end-to-end consumer 294 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,680 Kevin Mako: product development services tailored specifically to hardware startups, small manufacturers, 295 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,880 Kevin Mako: and inventors. Take your product from idea to store. 296 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:53,680 Kevin Mako: shelves at MakoDesign.com. That's M-A-K-O-Design.com. Thanks for joining and see you again soon.