Marvin: Hey folks it's marvin cash the host of the articulate fly we're back with another

Marvin: casting angles with mac brown mac how are you i'm.

Mac: Doing great how are you doing marvin.

Marvin: As always just trying to stay out of trouble and you know it's kind of funny

Marvin: we were talking before we started recording that uh you know we're kind of in

Marvin: this transition period uh kind of particularly if you're fly fishing for trout, right?

Mac: Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's starting to cool down the last few days,

Mac: which is we finally got a little rainfall yesterday, and then we got winds out

Mac: of the northeast today, and that's bringing in some cool air.

Mac: And I think we're like low 70s right now, which is nice for this time of year.

Marvin: Yeah, but, you know, as we said, you know, it's been so hot for so long,

Marvin: it's going to take a while for the trout streams to kind of come back into shape, right?

Mac: Oh yeah yeah they were low and we definitely got

Mac: a lot more up in the park um but yeah

Mac: just the levels on the creeks i was on the

Mac: lake today and went up and uh checked out forney creek and hazel creek and eagle

Mac: creek and um yeah the flows you can see the water coloration from the rain it

Mac: rained a lot harder up high yesterday i think because it had a lot more tea

Mac: color and it was It was a lot higher elevation than what it's been, so that's a good sign.

Mac: But it'll take several days. I mean, we had about a week and a half,

Mac: I think, of record, like close to record highs, you know, for this part of the country.

Mac: So the water will take, it'll take at least a week with this cool,

Mac: cooler temps to cool it back where it should be.

Mac: But we're looking forward to that.

Marvin: Yeah, and I guess folks should remember, too, it's going to get cool up high

Marvin: before it gets cool down low because the tuck is a big body of water,

Marvin: holds a lot of thermal energy, right?

Mac: Oh, yeah. Like, on the Tuckasege, it'll take till October for that to cool down.

Mac: It's still too hot down there, so it's about to get cool.

Mac: It'll take a little while, though, for that.

Marvin: Yeah, and so we were saying that, you know, the smart thing to do is we're waiting

Marvin: for kind of trout fishing to come back.

Marvin: As you know, we're also at the tail end of, you know, kind of the best kind

Marvin: of warm water, top water fishing we've got going, right?

Mac: Yeah on the lake the lake definitely like we met it around on fontana about

Mac: three hours a day and i stopped and fished a few key spots and uh two terrestrials

Mac: and you know panfish bass,

Mac: we got we got some uh bluegill some nice crappie just throwing the same kind

Mac: of thing that i'd be throwing for trout you know just beetles and i threw some

Mac: i threw a couple of uh inch worms,

Mac: like the, you know, the mops.

Mac: I threw some of those unweighted and all that worked.

Mac: I thought, yeah, this is pretty, pretty happening down here.

Mac: So that was a lot of fun. Went down with the, with the family and just kind

Mac: of motored around for three hours after that and looked around at the national park.

Marvin: Yeah. And it's interesting, right? Cause I mean, you know, the real trick,

Marvin: if you're a fly angler and you don't have a boat or you don't have a float tube

Marvin: is, you know, as it starts to cool off those fish are just not going to be up

Marvin: on the edges where it's easy.

Mac: For us to get to them right yeah yeah I mean we saw them in a lot of places

Mac: I mean there was places with debris like I fished a trash pile up on the Anaheva,

Mac: and the trash pile is just all the debris you know how it gets all collected

Mac: with logs and things from floods and there's shade up underneath all that so,

Mac: you can throw in a little pocket,

Mac: and then let it sink underneath the trash pile just like they do in the salt water when there's

Mac: you know i mean debris floating on top there's a lot of fish

Mac: and bait fish that hang right underneath it because it's shaded and um

Mac: that produced some nice fish today for us too so yeah you

Mac: can find those kind of places i mean on on the little tennessee has it the tucasegee

Mac: has it i mean any of the rivers that feed the main body of water has you know

Mac: a trash pile of stuff and mostly logs and debris floating so that's a good tactic this time of year.

Marvin: Yeah it reminds me of fishing the foam pools in the back eddies out west.

Mac: Kind of similar, yeah. We didn't have the moving water as much like on the lake today.

Mac: But, yeah, that's the next best friend. And the other thing is the bridges.

Mac: Of course, we fished under the trestle, the railroad trestle,

Mac: you know, out by Almond, the 28 Bridge.

Mac: Like any of those bridges, you know, there's a huge shade area where the highway goes across the top.

Mac: So that's also always really effective, like when it's really bright because

Mac: the day was really sunny and bright. right so anyway you get shade like that

Mac: you'll also get fish congregate in there so that was good fun for a change yeah.

Marvin: Always nice to get out on the water i know you know as we kind of move into

Marvin: fall that you know you've still got the guide stuff going on you know uh even

Marvin: before i guess they start stocking dh in early october but you've got you've

Marvin: got a casting school and i know you've got some travel and some other stuff going on too right.

Mac: Yeah september the weekends through september,

Mac: yeah pretty slammed with with mainly revolving all around casting there's a

Mac: the school the 14th and 15th and there's a lot of float trips out on the nana

Mac: hala still during that time and,

Mac: yeah it's it's busy september's busy for that transition time and the tailwaters

Mac: are still in pretty good shape too i mean there's people call last week i had

Mac: four or five calls people asking me about going to the upper i'm like why would

Mac: you go to the upper when you got the lower or right below you know with 54 degree

Mac: water and go fish 70 degree water on the upper so it's just,

Mac: bad strategy you know so then they ask well where would you go exactly i'm like

Mac: doesn't matter where i'd go exactly there's seven miles wherever you can park

Mac: you know what i mean because the nanny's fishing really well right now so so

Mac: for the people that are wondering like maybe i'll go to north carolina and,

Mac: you know try the smart thing to do would be go to the tailwater i'm positive

Mac: there's not anything in our state that's running colder than the halo right

Mac: now so if you wanted to trout fish that's kind of a no-brainer for living in

Mac: this area that's one of the better places yeah.

Marvin: And i would say if you wanted to go over the hill probably go fish the watauga right.

Mac: Yeah go up to wilbur put in at wilbur then the same deal up there it's cold

Mac: up near the dam it's going to be a lot colder you know, staying up that upper

Mac: sectional fish good right now.

Mac: And they've got still plenty of water being released up there, just like Nana Hala.

Mac: I mean, there's also a lot of power demand because he, you know,

Mac: so it's not like they're holding water.

Mac: They're releasing plenty of water because there's a lot of air conditioners

Mac: and demand for kilowatts. So the tailwater is still putting out just the same

Mac: amount of water as ever before. Now, there is a release more than the end of the month.

Mac: I just found out about the other day because we have a big group,

Mac: like 22 people out there on the 29th, and that's the release.

Mac: Saturday and Sunday, 28th and 29th is when they're releasing from the upper.

Mac: So it's going to be a lot bigger water on the lower and the upper.

Mac: So when they do that release, it's several, I think, several thousand CFSX for water.

Mac: So something to be aware of for those that are thinking about coming up and trying it.

Mac: During that time, it's probably better to go somewhere else,

Mac: because it's going to be pretty big water.

Marvin: Yeah, and I know they're doing, I don't know if they've stopped this or not,

Marvin: but at least during the summer, they were doing that recreational release from 1 to 6 on the Watauga 2.

Mac: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that just makes it tough for people to get in and wait around.

Mac: I mean, it's going to be tough because you can't really, like on the lower,

Mac: you can't really stand back on the side.

Mac: And when it's on like that and that much higher, it's pretty limiting.

Mac: So I'm just probably better to go somewhere else.

Marvin: Yeah, I mean, I would say even on the South Holston down lower,

Marvin: I mean, when they're generating with one turbine, that's a lot of water.

Marvin: I mean, you know, not the smartest thing in the world to try to get out and wait in that.

Mac: That that's some big water yeah that

Mac: can be pretty large for sure and um but yeah

Mac: it's it it's it's kind of odd i've been doing a lot of hiking in the morning

Mac: daylight like about 6 15 start in the dark and then do a loop it takes me about

Mac: two hours and like even now it's like i've been listening to that merlin app

Mac: a lot when i'm hiking you know on the phone and it's just really quiet like

Mac: Like there's not a whole lot of,

Mac: and there's still a lot of birds here, but like, it's weird, man.

Mac: This transition time going into hot, you know, into fall season,

Mac: it's been like, it's been odd, you know. You should hear all kinds of birds

Mac: singing and Carolina wrens and it's just, it's strange.

Mac: Like you get up there walking for two whole hours and you don't even hear a

Mac: single bird song, you know.

Mac: And it tells you that, yeah, we're in a transition because all the animals know

Mac: it. but normally we see bear and deer and all kinds of stuff on every hike,

Mac: and I haven't seen anything in two weeks up there, you know.

Mac: So, there's pretty good evidence that that's a really unique ecosystem in the National Park.

Mac: In the Smokies, and to walk, you know, two and three hours and not see any sign

Mac: of anything tells you it's pretty dormant with a lot of animals right now,

Mac: too. They're in transition.

Marvin: Yeah, and one last kind of tailwater tip for folks. You know,

Marvin: I would encourage you, you know, to always carry a waiting staff if you have one.

Marvin: But the other thing, too, is to pay attention, you know, particularly if you're

Marvin: fishing well downstream of the release, you know, when you get in the water,

Marvin: kind of mark, you know, look at a rock and look at kind of where the water is

Marvin: or a stick or something and kind of pay attention to that.

Marvin: Because particularly on the South Holston, you know, you can get on the wrong

Marvin: side of that river and, you know, it's pretty narrow.

Marvin: So you don't really kind of think about, you know, wading out too far.

Marvin: And the next thing you know, you're stuck on the wrong side when the water comes up.

Mac: Oh, yeah. Yeah, and another good trick, too, is looking for the white bubbles.

Mac: You know, like Nantahala or the Holston, all those rivers, it'll tell you it's

Mac: coming up long before you start seeing it physically rise,

Mac: and it'll pick up a lot of little white, you know, like in the foam lines,

Mac: you'll start seeing those white bubbles increase like a hundredfold.

Mac: So you know what I'm saying? So you're fishing a run, and there's no white bubbles,

Mac: and all of a sudden there's a thousand white bubbles flowing down the run you're

Mac: fishing. It's time to get out.

Mac: Because that's always the case.

Marvin: Yeah. Also, too, when you feel that cool breeze, it's not because it's cool.

Marvin: It's because the water's coming.

Mac: That's right. No, it is a good point because, I mean, even the Nantahala,

Mac: to be on the wrong side when it's low in the morning and be stuck on the railroad

Mac: track side, it's a pretty long walk back down to the Nantahala Outdoor Center to get out.

Marvin: Yeah, it kind of changes the contours of your day, shall we say.

Marvin: Yeah. Before I let you go, I know you've been working really,

Marvin: really hard on your show schedule.

Marvin: You want to let folks know where they can find you on the road in early 2025?

Mac: Yeah, we're going to do the fly fishing shows, I think, starting off up in Marlborough.

Mac: And I think I'm doing all of them except Lancaster this next year.

Mac: And then, of course, the one up in St.

Mac: Paul, Twin Cities, there's a big show there at the end of March.

Mac: I know I'm doing that one.

Mac: There's a couple other ones that are in the works right now.

Mac: So it's going to be pretty busy. I think after the first week in January,

Mac: it'll be pretty much show season pretty much every week until the end of March.

Mac: So we're looking forward to getting that started, Marvin.

Marvin: Yeah, I'll see you in Denver and Atlanta. I don't know that I'm going to make

Marvin: it to any of the other ones.

Mac: Yeah, that'll be a good one, though. You picked a good one for sure.

Mac: Both those seem to be really big attendance, and they seem like they're still

Mac: growing, you know? They're really well attended.

Marvin: Yeah. And so, as we always tell folks, macbrownflyfish.com is the place to find

Marvin: all things Mac Brown, schools, guiding, appearances, and all that kind of good stuff.

Marvin: And, you know, Mac, I'll let you get on with your evening. And,

Marvin: you know, as I always say, folks, show it yourself to get out there and catch a few.

Marvin: Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Mac.

Mac: Tight lines, Marvin.