Foreign.

Hello.

Welcome to the Promoter podcast.

I'm your host, Felicity Fury, co founder of We Aspire, engineer and speaker.

And today I'm joined with, joined with, joined by.

I'm on the podcast today with the incredible Renee Wooden Tomlin, fellow engineer, speaker and aviation nerd.

I can, I can call.

I'm calling it out, Renee.

We all know it's true.

I was telling my kids the other day that they were watching airplanes and I said, renee knows how to build those, which I was very excited to share with my kids.

Great to see you.

And I feel like it's been a little bit since we jumped on and hit record on the podcast.

How are you?

Where are you calling in from today?

It has been, it's been a hectic month.

I feel like calling in from Larrakia.

Beautiful country today.

The wet season is starting to build up.

We have clouds in the sky for the first time in the like three to four months.

So it's a big deal.

The humidity is rising.

But I haven't spent all that much time up here.

I've been flying down Sydney and to Brisbane and to Perth.

It's been a wild couple of weeks, to be honest.

But I think I've got some downtime now planned.

So more records for our listeners coming right up as a result.

But yeah, no, it's been really good.

I think maybe I'll share more about what I've been going through as we step through the topic today.

What about you?

Sounds good.

I'm calling from Guppy Guppy country, so wanya, welcome.

Hello.

And we've had some gorgeous sunshine for the last couple of weeks on the sunshine coast and I'm loving the warmth of the sun while it's had these cool, crisp morning.

Well, cool for Queensland, so, you know, not really that cold to our Melbourne and Southern listeners on the call.

But it's been a beautiful, yeah, beautiful time up here with that sunshine and yeah, it's been, I think we've gone through, we seem to go through similar challenges at similar points, Renee.

So I feel like today's episode is kind of like our own promotion pickle that we've been experiencing.

And I think it would not be a surprise for leaders who, you know, I think a lot of people experience what we're going to talk about today and that is the energy of saying no.

So this year I spent a lot of time stepping back from a lot of my commitments and spending some time just to really rest and recover.

I've been very burnt out and I think that's like, you know, almost like a whole series of podcasts I could talk to.

And we'll definitely be sharing more about that in future episodes.

And it's really been awesome to have some more time with my children and step away from work.

And now I'm feeling I've got a bit more energy back.

After spending a lot of time resting, I'm starting to notice these incredible opportunities coming through.

And I am one of those people who, like, loud and proud people pleaser.

I find it really hard to say no.

I don't want to let people down.

I don't want to disappoint people.

But there's no way in hell I'm going back to the burnout and the overwhelm and doing all.

All these things for other people.

So I'm being really selective about my time.

And it's had me think about how do I make those decisions on the best investment of my time.

And it was actually dinner at a friend's house, and we're talking about a particular board opportunity that's come up, and they were considering it as well.

And they've got two young kids just like me.

And the gentleman said it really comes down to roi, like, what are you going to get out of it?

How is this going to add value to your life?

And it's a particular season that we're in, and that really got me thinking.

And I think this is a really big part of it is acknowledging the season of life that you're in if you do have young kids.

It's definitely a time, and it's been a huge adjustment for me to get used to that.

And then it's also, I think, a time in my life where I'm thinking about, okay, if I invest now, what is that going to look like in 5 or 10 years time?

And do I set myself up over the next decade to be there for my kids as they're going to school and thinking like that?

So that's been a big factor in my thinking around how do I say no to things?

But it certainly has taken a lot of energy and a little bit of workshopping for me to kind of get to.

Here are my core principles of this decision making.

And kind of the.

This was almost like a strategy, like the game plan, the goals that really sit behind that.

And each no is kind of testing that for me.

Yeah, Renee, how do you.

How do you give energy for no's?

It.

Does it take it?

Maybe.

Maybe you're like, I don't know, boss lady, and you're like, Oh, I find it easy to say no.

Maybe you're not having this experience at all.

What's it like?

I feel like as you're talking, it's reminding me of, like, decision fatigue.

So, you know, there's all these.

I think maybe we've talked about this on other episodes.

Maybe we need to talk about this.

But as you get older and you have more to add to your resume, you meet more people, you get more experience in life, you all of a sudden just start getting more and more opportunity.

And it incredibly, like.

Well, it slowly kind of creeps up until you get to a point where you have to learn to say no to things because you just can't do it all.

And even if you try to do it all, that's where you hit Burnout and Felicity.

I have both been there many a time throughout our.

And so what we're trying to share today is giving you the heads up that you might be approaching that point in your life.

You might have gone through that, you might be in the thick of that right now.

And so what are some tools that we apply to be able to start figuring out how to spend our time in the best way for ourselves?

And I always come back to, again, great mentors in the past have given me fantastic advice.

And they say, pick three things that you're doing with your life outside of your relationship and your home, and that's the maximum you can do.

You're not allowed to do four.

You're not allowed to do, you know, 3.2.

It's pick three things and do those three, three, three things really well.

And as soon as you go over that, find that you really, you really start to feel it, the stress starts to build, your anxiety starts to increase, and you're spending more and more time each week spinning your wheels, trying to figure out how you're going to achieve and accomplish all three, three things to the right standard.

So now is a good reminder for me.

I have bitten off more than I can chew again this year.

And, you know, it crept up on me, like, I always feel like it does.

I get to a point where I'm at roughly now where I start feeling overwhelm, I start getting more anxiety, and then I go, great, something needs to change because this isn't working for me to be able to keep that peace of mind, my mental health, and be able to kind of show up in my relationship the way that I want to, but also, yeah, like, just have an enjoyable life.

I don't want to be somebody who's always Being productive.

And it's an awful thing to feel the weight of that consistently when you say yes to too many things.

So let's go through a life checklist now, shall we?

Oh my gosh.

So I have my marriage at home and we have our dog and a beautiful wife and fitness to me is super important.

Important.

So those two things.

I don't have a family yet, so huge disclaimer.

I don't have the same, you know, juggle and time poor, fatigue driven challenges that Felicity does.

But then I have my job.

That's my top priority.

So working for lensjet, delivering sustainable aviation fuel.

I'm a board member for Ballerinji.

I just signed up only like months or two months ago.

And my why for that is really clear.

So speaking to the point you made earlier, Felicity, I know exactly why I'm showing up there and why want that board role and I'm not prepared to take on any more.

I have enough offers as it stands and I have willingly said no to those offers and that's because you've said no to me.

Renee, I asked you to come on my board and it was a night which I like also love that we can have that kind of friendship where we're still great friends, still work together and we can say no to each other.

I feel like that's a very respectful relationship.

So I was happy to get your.

No, no.

Renee, it was fantastic.

I loved it and it was hard.

It was hard to say no to you.

So just for Conte, Felicity asked me to be on the board of her incredible non for profit power of engineering.

In the past, I've worked with Felicity on this program.

I've been involved very thoroughly in it and I love what they do.

But right now, it wasn't the right time, the right season for me to be a part of that team.

So yeah, and it made sense.

Like I care about you and I want you to win.

And you were talking about where your focus and energy was.

And I went, of course.

That totally makes sense.

And I think I don't want to have someone on the team who doesn't want to be there.

Like, I know that, you know, I could have, like, I don't think I would have convinced you because you're very clear, which I love about you.

But I feel like I could have tried to convince you, but it was like, you know what?

Like that makes so much sense.

You got to do what's right for you.

And as a friend, that's, you know, I think the most important thing is our relationship.

And yeah, here we are months later, still, still friends.

So it wasn't a rejection, it was.

A not right now, but thank you.

Very appreciative of it.

Yes.

No, you're an absolute rock star.

I love working with you.

And the Promoted Podcast is the best way to be able to do that option.

Well, our, our second priority is Promoted Podcast and then the third is.

And this one I'm tinkering with right now.

So, yes, there is the board role, there is my job, and there is the Promoted Podcast.

That's already three things.

But then the fourth thing that I'm tinkering with.

So just for context, I should not be doing a fourth thing based on the rules that I've been given from my mentor.

But the fourth thing is I really want to do something about climate change.

And so I am trying to build a team to be able to build climate action museums.

In lead up to COP31, Australia is set to host one of the world's biggest biodiversity and climate change conferences at the end of next year.

It's called Cop 31.

Look into it.

United nations is a, is a major kind of organization that is involved in running that conference.

And we need to engage our youth across Australia in the conversation around climate change and make it more accessible, more inspirational, aspirational, rather than doom and gloom and this horrible topic that people feel overwhelming to engage with.

So that's a huge number four.

And I'm still trying to figure out how to bring it to life.

So my jar is capped right now and I'm sure there's all these other small things that are still going on.

You know, my personal goals continue to kind of, you know, be ticking away in the back end to, you know, working on property, trying to figure out how to reach financial freedom in the future.

There's a lot happening right now.

Five things I should not be doing Five things over.

Well, this is why I have anxiety.

I think it is really important and being clear about those things that matter to you.

And for me, you know, having my goals written down and being clear has been a really powerful guidepost for me.

I feel like it also reduces that anxiety and stress of, oh my gosh, where am I going?

What am I doing?

And I've recently redone mine, particularly after having this period of time where I've rested and been recovering and thinking, okay, what do I want to do next?

But it's also a bit of an awkward time because I feel like I still need to rest for the rest of the year and not Go back to doing my work.

Work activities as much as I was previously.

So I'm kind of like in this.

Yeah.

The awkward in between phase.

But I've still written down some goals.

So for me, I'm focusing on writing a book actually, so that's in progress, which I'm very excited about.

And then I've got, you know, dabbling in We Aspire.

Supporting that my children and my family.

So.

And spending time in nature.

So I think I've really been prior, like, figuring out what does it mean to prioritize my own health this year.

And I know people like, I've had mentors saying this all the time, like, you got to take care of yourself.

And I'm like, yeah, yeah.

But actually doing that this year.

So I feel like it is.

Has been myself, my family, and then I would say my work goals.

So they're kind of those three.

I feel like for me, because I do have a family, like that has to be one of the priorities.

Yeah.

Of those three.

So focusing on that.

So I think that's been really helpful.

And why this new board opportunity that came up.

That's been quite tricky.

While it has been tricky is because I. I would love to have a farm and spend time in nature, and I'd love the kids to be on the farm and all that kind of stuff.

And I've been kind of running experiments as well this year to see have I got energy for that, how's that going to go?

And I've had a few little house projects, like, for example, fixing up our front patio area.

And I.

Which included painting some concrete.

Now I've painted like three quarters of this concrete.

And then I ran out of paint.

And there is this tiny patch that I see each morning when I walk past that has not yet been completed.

And that's been.

This sounds like such a tiny thing, but for me, I've realized, okay, I'm not ready to go live on a farm and maintain a farm if I do not have the time to paint this, like, little piece of concrete.

Now I've got the paint.

I'm ready to go.

This afternoon is my time.

Renee, you can hold me accountable to finish off this freaking job that I think has been like, two months in the making.

But I found these little experiments have been really helpful for me to see.

Okay, I want to have this new goal of living on a farm and having this lifestyle.

Is that going to work for me?

Actually having young kids, I really want to spend time with them, and I don't want to Be saying like, no, you know, here's an iPad, or no, I'm not going to have time with you one on one because I'm going to do this job on our property that doesn't work for me.

So this, you know, this new, this potential board opportunity was related to supporting running this farming initiative.

So it actually ticked a box of my goals of I get this opportunity to be involved in nature and with farming and this amazing thing when I don't have time.

That's really a great use of time.

But actually, the further I looked into it, there is a big responsibility.

And I think if I'm not able to give myself 100% to something, then it's actually something that I need to say no to.

And I think being on a board is actually a really serious role.

Like you are genuinely accountable for things.

And I feel like being accountable for my children and my own business is.

And the charity is enough for me right now.

And so I will be declining this role.

But it has been a helpful exercise to go to think deeply about it.

And also that with things like actually come to the resolution that while I do want to have a farm and have this beautiful property, this isn't the right time for me.

And there are other things that I'm going to be doing first.

Like, I'd much prefer to be writing my book than having that investment of time into doing the farm.

So for me, I'm thinking about it and I think this has been particularly helpful since having children is that it's the, like you said, the, no, not right now, but actually staging those projects out and going, that's something that I want to do and I'm going to schedule it for the future.

I know that's really important to me and I'm going to revisit that goal in a short, in that kind of period of time.

So I think actually doing the work and doing the thinking is very, very powerful to document what those goals are and what those priorities are.

And I am such a nerdy engineer planner that I love having a schedule and a spreadsheet for my go.

And it actually really helps.

It helps me for two reasons.

One is it helps me track progress.

So on projects where you feel like you're not making that much progress, it actually has me go, oh, yeah, each week I'm doing these things.

It also helps me see what I'm not doing.

So the end of the month I can review that and go, well, you know what?

I actually totally sucked on this, like really, like simple project of Painting some concrete.

Okay, that, that is a really interesting observation.

I can see in my own actions.

And I think this also helps to lead members.

If a team member says yes, I really want to learn more about people in addition to my everyday role.

Okay, great.

Set them a task and the project.

See how serious they are about taking that on.

And if they're not taking action with it, well, that really gives you a lot of clues about what they're really serious about as well.

So, yeah, that's how I think I'm giving my energy into those specific priorities.

And yeah, it's just been interesting right now.

I think particularly as I'm building that muscle of here is where my focus is.

It's taking more energy to say no to things.

But I think it'll get easier over time, the more clarity that I get.

And yeah, I'm kind of in a bit of a, like, highest and best use of my time right now.

Highest and best value.

Another great engineering concept to think about how I'm really managing that.

Yeah, absolutely, I think.

So in the spirit of, you know, having the energy to say no, I think it's about getting really clear on what have you got on your plate, which of those are non negotiable for you that you really want to focus on and prioritize and understanding the why behind that and then getting ready and geared to say no to the other four or five things on your list.

So for me, I need to sit down with myself and do this exercise.

I think that I can kind of juggle probably three of the five things on my list because I only put an hour to two hours maximum per week into those.

So it's not having a huge impact on, you know, how I'm juggling my other two priorities, which is, you know, showing up to be a board director and also doing my job.

Yeah, I find the juggle is manageable at the moment.

But what I didn't include on that list is public speaking as well.

Yes, I think I feel like a life audit sounds very helpful.

And I agree.

What you shared then, Renee, too, is really powerful.

And something that's helped me is around having some systems in place.

And so, like I have my system for reviewing my goals every day, checking my spreadsheet each week on, you know, keeping on track.

We've actually just onboarded a brand new au pair who's been incredible.

And that's actually helped me come up with a lot of systems for our house.

And it might seem really simple, but just like, okay, everyone, when you come Home with the kids, you put the bag away in that area, you check the nappy bags restocked, like these little processes that happen all around our house.

So that it means that when the next person takes over, you know, you're ready to go, that nappy bag's ready to go, you don't need to think about it.

So supported me also, like, what can I.

What energy?

Like, how can I take those things off my mind in terms of like those kinds of energy things?

And I think that's an important part of it too.

If you do want to be more effective with the things that you've got and have that focus is how can you almost like outsource your brain into a system to make that happen?

Absolutely.

And straight off the bat, like, I have already declined any further speeches for the rest of this year to kind of start managing my, you know, I'm doing my property work on a weekend and doing them, you know, the Climate Action Museum on the weekend and then really keeping kind of my sole focus to be my job Monday to Friday.

So, you know, there are ways and systems that you can create to really achieve your goals.

For me, I don't want to be working on six things at any one time.

It's too much and I know that.

So what, what can I do now to start pairing that back and making sure that my life is manageable and I'm not overstressing myself and stretching myself.

So, you know, it's, it's.

Sometimes you get really excited about doing all the things and then the reality is that you're never nervous system, can't hack it and there's only 24 hours a day.

So you know, you've got to sleep and exercise and be with your family around that too.

So yeah, here's a shout out to say, find that energy to say no.

Make sure you do a checklist on your life and make sure that you're spending your time in the best way that suits you.

And as we kind of pointed to or alluded to, the opportunities will never stop even if you say no.

And when you say no, you don't have to say no forever.

You can say no, not right now.

And keep in touch with any potential opportunities that you know, you are really curious about, but just don't have that capacity right now.

Life is a marathon, not a sprint.

So these are really great systems and tools to be able to make sure that you're keeping yourself refueled for the marathon.

Absolutely.

It's a very hard thing.

That was a great wrap up.

And yeah, good luck to everybody because saying, you know, takes energy and it's super difficult.

Thanks for the great chat, Renee.

We'll see you in the next episode of the Promoted podcast.

Thanks for listening.

See you there.