Hello and welcome to the Music Room, the show where I chat with music industry professionals about their careers, their work, and how it all started for them.

I've enjoyed making every episode of this podcast since it started nearly three years ago.

Time has flown and drum roll, please.

It's time for me to take a break.

Not a long break.

It's certainly not the end for the Music Room.

And the Facebook group is a lovely place to hang out if you're not already in there.

I a pretty simple reason for taking a break, and that is because I'm making a new show.

It's not music related, but it is very time consuming.

Those of you who write music for TV and film will know that the period at the start of a new production can be pretty intense.

It's the time when you're making decisions about instrument palettes, about character themes, the whole sound identity for the production.

And creating a podcast is no different.

That work has to be done to nail down the format, have those conversations, create that music, build those foundations that you're going to rely on in future episodes.

So my point is that I will be taking a break from this podcast.

I don't know how long for.

It won't be long, I'm sure, but I will be back for more Music Room episodes.

I'm so grateful to you for listening and grateful for each and every guest who's given their time, their stories and their wisdom.

So, without further ado, there's a feature on this show where guests are invited to leave an item and a piece of advice in the Music Room for others to find.

It's something I wanted to include when I was hammering out the format of this podcast that connected right back to my own experiences of being in the Music Room at school as a teenager.

That was my starting point, really.

The genesis of the feeling I wanted to create for the show and for the community that for whatever reason, we have gathered in a place where we have things in common, a common understanding of this creativity that we have.

So it should be a place where we can help each other, because frankly, we're all feeling our way in the dark, aren't we?

We all think we're doing something wrong.

We all think that everyone else has it than we do.

They don't, by the way.

And so for people who've had some success, AKA the guest, they offer items and advice that work for them along the way.

Hopefully that offers ideas for listeners or reassurance that, hey, maybe I'm doing the right thing here.

So if you've missed any of these items or advice this year.

Fear not, this episode is a lovely look back at all the advice and all the items that were left in the music room in 2024.

Buckle up because you're about to be advised by some amazingly experienced music industry professionals.

First up.

Then let's head back to January when Korean composer Ye Kun Yoo, who in his time as a composer has been from Korea to LA and back again, had this advice and item to leave in the music ring.

I know a ton of successful composers would have given this feedback, but I would also say that relationship with people is really important.

So a lot of my clients are coming actually coming from my past clients.

So they talked about my music to their friends and partners and that is the best promotion that I can do.

So I want to say when you have any opportunities from any kinds of projects, regardless of no budget or small budget project like do your best, you never know where or how an opportunity might come in the future.

So and then in game projects, especially for triple A level or larger scale projects, there are times when you have to compete with other composers to secure the project.

So of course the quality of music matters.

But personally my approach involves actively asking questions and even if they requested just one short sample, as I mentioned before about Liza P project, I provide three or more fully completed samples.

So approaching it this way makes the client feel that I'm paying more attention to their project and make them fully trust me on the project project.

So basically I love that.

I like the advice about, you know, if you're going to do it regardless of the budget, do your best.

Very great.

I would add to that if you don't feel like you're going to do your best, then don't do it.

You know, if you feel like, oh well, it's a low budget, I don't really want to do it, then don't rule it out.

You know, don't do a bad job basically, isn't it Right, right.

Would you have an item that might have helped you along the way that you could leave in the music room?

So recently what I'm really focusing on is I had done it before but I'm still trying to explore my own music languages like music colors.

So in order to do that I try to find new instruments and new sounds and recording new samples through my voice.

And especially I recently bought a keyboard called Seaboard Rise 2.

That one was really awesome.

So I actually used that device for like two AAA games and Seaboard is I don't know how to express It.

But the color is really unique.

The glissando and the color from synthesizer I don't know how to express, but.

Well, it's like.

It looks like a keyboard, doesn't it?

Yeah, it looks like a keyboard with a kind of a rubber.

Yeah, yeah, something like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then, and then you can.

Rather than playing individual keys, you can.

You can kind of smooth over.

Right, right.

So, yeah, it is a really hard thing to explain, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

Maybe you need a little bit.

Right.

Maybe you need a little bit practice to explore what the sound is and then maybe you have to figure out how to do it.

But yeah, I.

I found that there are some very good analog sounds in there.

And then, yeah, it was really helpful for me to try some experimental sound for my composition.

Yeah, so far it worked so well.

Thanks, Jakin.

Next up is orchestrator Andy Kite, who joined me in February.

Andy has orchestrated for the likes of Joe Kramer and Ian Arbor and many more.

And his orchestrations have been recorded at Air Studios and Abbey Road in London, as well as in Vienna, Lisbon and Bratislava.

Over to you, Andy.

Yeah.

So this item is very key for orchestrators, and it is a stream deck, which is.

I think a lot of Twitch users use them.

Basically, it's kind of like it's about as big as an iPhone, something you just plug into your laptop and it's got 15 little silicon buttons that you can assign anything to.

And it was an orchestra called Henry Wilkinson, who's based out in la, who put me onto it.

And basically he.

With working in Sibelius, he didn't want to have to keep clicking the top down menu to select what he wanted.

And so he basically put everything into this stream deck.

So now basically when I orchestrate, if I want to do dynamics, I don't type them in, I just click.

I've got a button for piano, a button for forte, and I just click the note on the score that I want, press the button.

Done.

Same with expression marks.

Same with.

If I want to put Soltasto above, you know, a note, you just click the button.

If I want to format the parts as well, which I'm often doing for smaller sessions, again, you can just have all that in there and it just makes orchestrating so much easier, so much smoother and just, yeah, kind of more enjoyable because you're not having to constantly click and open Windows and that sort of thing.

So it's a bit of a random item, but as an orchestrator, and if there's any orchestrators Listening like that is an absolute game changer for me.

Yeah, I literally wouldn't go if I.

If I go away on holiday and there's even a glimpse of a chance I might have to start orchestrating while I'm away.

I'll always pack the stream deck along my laptop, just in case, sort of thing.

Yeah, awesome.

That's.

Yeah, that's a little bit left field and that's what I love about this.

I don't know what's coming up.

And this is, you know, people who actually have used these in a practical sense.

So that's fantastic.

Thank you.

What advice then would you like to leave in the music room?

I think, I mean just the obvious one of just keep going.

I think it does get easier.

Being a freelance musician is so hard.

Recording cello with a friend of mine, she's a freelance musician and I don't think we'd actually seen her for about 10 years, but kind of through friends of friends, we'd heard about what everyone's kind of been doing and at the end of it, the session, I was just like, you know, it's just great to see you again and know that you're still doing music because it's so hard to kind of keep going with all that.

But I do find that the older you get.

Yeah.

The kind of easier it gets.

But I think my main advice to a younger self or whoever's listening or whatever, I think it's that sort of there is no destination with life, it's all just a journey.

You don't really know what's going on.

We're all obsessed with the idea of making it and that looks different to different people, but you never do.

Even the most successful people I've met all kind of want to be doing something else in music.

You know, they were successful in one thing, but really, oh, I wish I was scoring this type of film instead of what I'm known for, which is this type of film.

And I think it's just being grateful because you might never make it to where you actually the place you think you want anyway.

And I think just enjoying the projects that you've got as and when they come and the differentiation of projects.

I've done loads of self funded projects where I've ended up having to produce and edit, you know, whole albums by myself, which in an ideal world I would have raised more money and someone else could have done that.

But actually through that I'm now really good at mixing and my own stuff.

So that's been really valuable and really Special.

And then other times where you've ended up doing a session at Air Studios or Abbey Road and it's like, oh, God, it's amazing.

And you're like, well, might never happen again.

So enjoy it while it lasts, you know what I mean?

Rather than being like, yeah, this is where I want to be every week and stuff, it's like, yeah, sure, we'd all love to be there every week, but might not.

So I don't know, I think just enjoying the journey of it, really.

Because the reason we do this is because we don't want to work in office.

It's meant to be fun.

So I think we just.

Yeah, we often just put so much pressure on ourselves, don't we?

So.

Yeah, I love that.

Some sort of.

Yeah, something along those lines.

Yeah, it's true.

Don't forget to enjoy what you're doing.

I hope you're enjoying this so far.

Next up is Alex Parsons, who joined me in March.

Alex is a musician and composer based in London, known for his work in film and television with credits including who Killed Jill Dando, the feature documentary Coco Chanel and Curse of the Chippendales produced by the Oscar winning team at Lightbox.

Let's hear what item and advice Alex chose to leave in the music room.

Over to you, Alex.

I have a really good think about this and I thought, do I leave my violin?

Because that's the thing that, you know, I've used.

I was like, no way.

I never leave my violin anywhere.

I'm not sure I'd let you leave your violin.

No, I thought about the thing that I have chosen to leave is an old mixtape.

And it's not a specific mixtape, but I think, I think back to when I was younger and the things that inspired, well, the things that inspired me the most.

And actually that's the one thing I always come back to, and it's the one thing that I kind of always come back to today as well is, you know, the idea of being a little bit different and being myself.

I think it's, you know, I, I never.

And you know, you spoke about trails right at the beginning.

You know, I didn't want to create something that other people, you know, so they could sound like me.

You know, they want to be different.

You know, we all want to be a little bit different.

And I think that's, that's so important.

And when I was much younger, you know, I would always find music that people hadn't heard.

I would do my absolute best.

You know, Spotify didn't exist those days.

So it was rooting around in Virgin Records or Tower Records, which was in Piccadilly Circus back then, you know.

Yeah, with the booths with the headphones.

Exactly, yeah.

Headphone booths, you know, they don't exist, do they, anymore?

That's.

That's a shame.

But, yeah, just flicking through and finding stuff.

And as soon as I heard, you know, a friend also liked that, something in me just went, oh, God, I gotta find something else.

And I still have that now, you know, whether it's listening to something or, you know, the type of music I write.

I think why my style of music isn't necessarily a specific while I don't focus on a specific style is because, you know, if.

If I hear something different, I'll be like, oh, that's grabbing me now, you know, or if someone else were to create a similar sound, then I'd like to find something a little bit different.

And I think that that's kind of keeps me inspired and keeps things fresh a little bit, you know, And I think it all stems back to creating those old mixtapes of stuff that I found back in the 90s, which is when I was a kid.

Wow, brilliant.

And I think I can confirm that you are very good at sounding like yourself.

Great.

Yeah.

I mean, you clearly put a lot of work into that.

And, yeah, it's really apparent when you hear your music, there is something about it that says, ah, this is Alex Parsons.

I'd like to think that's.

That's brilliant to hear.

It's funny because you never hear it yourself.

Absolutely.

So it's.

It's lovely to hear that.

So what advice would you like to leave in the music room?

Advice?

Well, I guess apart from the idea of being different, which I mentioned in my last thing, it's always good to sound, you know, to have your own kind of sound.

I think it's also really great to learn from other people as well and listen to what other people are doing.

And I guess one thing that I would always say is just always be curious.

Ask lots of.

Don't be afraid ever to ask questions.

It doesn't matter what stage of your career you're at, you know, ask questions.

If there's something you don't understand, Ask if you're at a screening and there's, you know, someone that you really want to find out what their role is in the film, ask them.

I think that could be a really great way to learn about what all of the different aspects of filmmaking are, and that can really influence your work, I think.

It's really important to just make sure you're always somewhere that you can be amongst other people to ask them questions if there's an opportunity to be somewhere.

Don't ever miss that.

Go to that screening, go to the film festival, the event.

If you're, you know, if you happen to be in a, you know, already partway through your career and you're in a mix, you know, a dub mix, for example, you know, go, don't just let that happen.

Try, try and get in that room and you know, find out what's happening.

Speak to the dub mixer, speak to the exec producers who are often in there as well.

It's just a really good thing to do is just always be in that spot.

And yeah, I mean it's know when is a good time I think to ask the question, you know, in some of those situations.

But I think always being curious is something that's just a great, great thing.

Learn all the time.

That's brilliant advice and it extends, it's also to when you've been hired to not be afraid if you think something's not quite right or something.

Just gain that understanding, you know, seek that clarity, isn't it?

Because ultimately you're all on the same side, you're all working towards the same thing at the end of the day.

Yeah, absolutely.

It could be something as simple as, you know, or something as important within the specific project as knowing an emotion that is needed at that particular point in the film.

Or actually it could be something that's a lot more specific to, you know, a format, what's the frame rate or you know, actually what's the best format for a dub mixer?

In order for him or her to do their best work, how would they kind of, how do they want to receive the file?

And if they then, you know, if they then tell me that, then I can make sure they get that.

Thanks, Alex.

Right.

In April I was joined by fabulous vocalist Amelia Jones.

Amelia has become a choice vocalist for cutting edge contemporary composers and her work can be heard in award winning video games and Japanese anime productions including Star Wars Visions on Disney plus and Eden on Netflix.

Over to you, Amelia.

I have this very cute little hello Knight figurine.

I tell you what, Amelia, if I can take a photo then I'll put this on the socials.

That sounds awesome because it, yeah, I mean we can try and describe it, but yeah, we'll.

It's like an iron on Plasticky figurine.

Here we go.

Oh, here we go.

Okay, that'll come together and that'll be available for you as well.

Thank you.

And the significance of that is that someone gifted that to me at a performance that I had with the London Video Game Orchestra last year, which was amazing.

And it kind of was just a little reminder to me of the impact that we can have on people as artists and as musicians, and that we might not be aware of that impact at the time, but it's really special what we do.

Yeah, absolutely.

Brilliant.

So that will go into the music room.

Oh, that's a good picture.

Can you see it?

Yeah, downloading it right now.

Fantastic.

Feel free to share.

That's all fine, thank you.

What advice, then?

Would you like to leave in the music room?

Yeah.

So, like I said, I've, you know, I've learned a lot of lessons in a very short space of time with uprooting my career.

I think the main thing that I've learned is that if you're not where you want to be, then that's not the end of your story and you're the one in control, which is kind of equally scary and very liberating.

If you're not where you want to be, then you kind of just have to keep putting yourself out there and sharing with people what you can do, because people don't know whether or not to sort of hire you or, you know, whatever it may be if they.

If they're just not aware of what you can do.

And that's on you as a musician to make sure that people know that.

And it's exhausting, but it's going to be worth it if you just keep at it.

Thank you very much, Amelia.

Now, in May, I was joined by composer Alex Atwood and head of the charity Music Minds Matter, Grace Meadows, for an extraordinarily frank conversation about mental health in the music industry.

Over to Alex and Grace.

My item, predictably, is a musical instrument, but it's a hand drum.

Handpan.

Yep.

I got all excited about a project three years ago and bought one and they are aggressively expensive and I regret it enormously.

I had to sell it more recently to get myself out of some financial strife, but for the few years that I had it, it just reminded you why we got into what we're doing in the first place.

You'd pass it and just go, dong.

Oh, it's quite fung dong.

Because what we do is we play.

And it just reminded you just to enjoy playing like a kid.

And if you want to spend ages and work out some sort of crazy diatonic polyrhythm, do that if you just want to hit it and make a nice sound with your daughter or your mate, that's also really fun.

So have a handpan just to play on and remember that it's just playing and fun.

I love that.

Yes.

It's very easy to be distracted by the business aspects of what we do.

So that's a great item.

Grace, your item.

What would you like to leave?

Well, how do I follow that?

I mean, playing is how we learn about the world.

It's like everything, isn't it?

You know, when we stop playing, you know, everything stops.

I mean, I go to my musical instruments when I need some release.

But I think for me, there's something about permission that I would leave for somebody to find because we're not perfect and it's okay for it not to always be going in the right direction and to ask for support.

And I don't think that we give each other or ourselves enough permission.

So here's a massive envelope with permission in capital letters for somebody to cash at any point, anywhere.

Permission slips.

Yes.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

Lovely.

It's great.

Permission and play.

There you go.

Alex, your advice.

What would you like to leave?

It's not going to be groundbreaking, given what we've covered in the last hour, but my advice to anyone, I mean, actually anyone young who ever comes and sits in, I always say get a different career first.

But that's not going to be my advice here.

Like, do music for fun and if it takes off, good on you.

But make sure that you've got a teaching qualification or anything else first.

But that's not my main one.

And my main one to people who are struggling, musicians, composers particularly, who are struggling, is get out of the box.

Get out of the studio as regularly as possible.

Do as many different diverse things as you can.

Play squash, help someone do dry stone walling, take an art class, whatever.

Just change the landscape in as diverse a way as possible.

First, just to get some fresh wind on your face and then to make you appreciate when you come back to the studio, because it's ultimately our choice that we do that and we mustn't be its slave.

Do it because you want to do it.

And the only way that you can remember that you want to do it is by doing other stuff as well.

And we need it because writing music is a lonely job and it can make you very vulnerable and you're putting yourself out there for other people to judge you.

Whether that's by saying, I think that's crap or I'm not going to give you any money for it or I'm not going to give you the job.

So in order to develop the robustness to deal with that, get out and about, do stuff and then come back a little bit stronger.

I love that.

Fantastic advice.

Thank you, Alex.

Grace, how do you follow?

I can agree more.

Yeah, love that.

I think that's absolutely true.

And I would add to that, obviously use Music Minds matter.

It's there 24 7.

It's there for the whole industry.

Pick up the phone, there's always somebody ready to listen and yeah, explore the services that are available.

And I would also say, whether you're well into your career, whether you're coming into the industry, on your way out, just, you know, think about what success looks like for you and hold on to that because you are not being measured by other people's success.

What will make you truly content, and that's what we're looking for really in life, is contentment, is to know that you've done as well as you possibly could when it came to the things that you wanted to achieve.

So I think there's something about setting out that expectation for yourself.

When we manage our expectations, we're much happier people.

So, yeah, work out what success looks like for you.

Everything that Alex said, which was absolutely spot on, couldn't agree more.

And reach out to Music Minds Matter.

Speaking of which, how would people reach out to Music Minds Matter?

So you can go on to our website Music Minds Matter, or you can give us a ring.

0808-802-8008 what an amazing conversation that was.

Thank you to Alex and Grace.

In June, I was joined by drumming legend Rick Jupp.

We are not worthy.

We had a brilliant chat about his time with the band Elbow and his more recent life as a facilitator of drumming.

Over to you, Rick.

What item are you choosing?

Can it be a pair of something?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay.

Pair of drumsticks.

I was doing a podcast episode with my co host and good friend Brian Hargraves.

Amazing drummer, amazing educator.

And we were talking about trying to instill something like that want into students or the drummers as just a pair of sticks.

And because they're an extension of you, just the piece of advice would be just don't think about doing anything with them.

Just have them in your hands, see what happens.

Wow.

Simple, profound.

I like it.

You are actually.

This is the second pair of sticks that is being left in the music room.

Composer Segan Akinola.

Wow.

He started as a drummer and he was the Jodie Whittaker, era Doctor who composer.

Oh, wow.

He was specifically about the oak sticks.

He thought they were a bit heavier, so a bit more dense.

That's fascinating.

So it impacts good company.

Yeah.

There you go.

In good.

Yeah, I.

I used to.

When I was on Promark, I had the.

Is it.

I can't remember.

Yeah, it was a pair of oak sticks.

They were great.

They were really nice.

I.

I would say.

What have I got at the minute?

Some Carter Beauford's Carter from Dave Matthews.

But I have these.

I have the grip ones.

Ah, lovely.

Yeah.

See, I like these because they're five Bs, quite chunky, but the Vic Firth normal five bees, they taper quite, quite shallowly to the tip and they've got a smaller tip.

These are the pro mark kind of link up.

Bigger tips and a bigger shoulder.

So you've got more sort of forward.

Forward motion and yellow grips.

So.

I mean, yellow, yeah, goes in with the music room branding there, so it's a good choice of color.

Brilliant.

There we go.

Thanks, Rick.

Now, in July, I had a lovely chat with mixing and mastering engineer to the stars, John Ellison Hartley, who talked a lot of sense over to you, John.

The item is earplugs.

And multiple pairs of earplugs.

So you have them everywhere, just in case, wherever you are, to protect your hearing, which I know anybody who knows me, if you're out at an event, even at a talking event, whatever, I've.

You're generally up to like 85 to 90 decibels at least, and maybe above that, even being on the Tube in London, any environment, you're.

You're anywhere into 90 to the hundred decibels and you can't recover your hearing.

And if you want to work for as long as possible, we.

It deteriorates over time anyway, naturally.

So to keep it as good as possible, always have them.

I must give you a link, actually.

I think it was Help for Hearing or something, where the brand of molded earplugs, ACs, they cost about £140 or something, but there's a service where if you prove that you work in the industry, you can get.

It's about £50, so you get an ear test and get them molded.

So things like that.

There's.

Yeah, if you want to look after it.

And I haven't used my ACS ones for about 10 years because I shoved them through the washing machine and that sort of knackered them after 10 years of use.

But yeah, getting even the little silicone ones just shove them in and keep your hearing as good as possible.

Absolutely brilliant item that's going in the music room.

So what advice would you like to leave?

There's so many things you could do, but it's ultimately about the people and surrounding yourself with good people, removing the not good people because it's toxic and it's very much that old thing of you become the people who surround you, you know who you're with, you pick up all these habits.

It's a bit like when you grow up as a child, you know, you get influenced by the bad person or something like that and pick up little things.

So, yeah, when you're at events and in work, but also in personal life, who do you want to be and who can challenge us?

Who can we learn from and who can we share with?

So, yeah, wow.

Be my point.

Thank you very much, John.

In August, I chatted with composer, producer and vocalist Karina Byrne about writing music for ads and sonic brands and accidentally writing with Hans Zimmer.

Here's Karina with her item and advice.

I would leave the voice memos app open and recording for somebody.

Just leave it open and recording.

Yeah.

So I'd leave, I.

I'd donate my phone and I'd leave.

I'd leave the voice memos and I'd gift that to them because that has, that has been an amazing tool for me.

Just like going out and walking my dog, literally or wherever.

Sometimes I've been on the train and an idea will come and you get down this kind of gibberish voice note.

But there's, there's something in it.

Yeah.

So that would be my item.

Absolutely.

I'd leave my smartphone.

I'm sure the amount of stuff on the collective music creators, phones.

Yeah.

It must be gazillions of hours of just people going, do, do, do, do, do.

Some of it I would not even share with like the people that are closest to me in my life.

But that's fine.

It's.

It's a powerful tool with all of the gibberish.

There's something in there that is fantastic.

And what piece of advice would you like to leave?

Piece of advice I would like to leave for people.

Okay.

My piece of advice is don't judge your own progress on other people by comparing where you are or what your skills are to them.

Because there'll only be one you and there'll only be one them.

I mean, full stop.

There you go.

Yeah.

Because what, what people's power is creatively, my opinion is the essence of them and what they're all about.

So if you're trying to imitate other people, then kind of the world's missing out on your uniqueness.

Absolutely.

And you inevitably become a poor imitation of someone else as well.

Yeah.

Which won't get you anywhere, will it?

No, there's already one John Mayer.

So, you know, if we.

I certainly would not try and become him, partly because it's just never going to happen.

But yeah, exactly.

Sure.

John Mayer is mightily relieved that you're not on Hot on his tail.

Yes.

Watch this space.

Thanks, Karina.

Next up was Rich Chance in September.

Rich is such a lovely guy and is preparing for some live shows next year.

So over to you, Rich.

What's your item and advice?

Okay, so I've thought about this.

I need to reread it because I'm guessing there's going to be some outdated references in it, but a book that really meant a lot to me at various stages of my career is Never Too Late to Be Great.

Oh.

By Tom Butler Bowden.

And that book is a sort of document of all of the people that succeeded at a late stage in their lives and at a late stage in the game.

It's obviously got some, some capitalist overtones and it's got a few self help overtones, but it's still a great read for anyone that is thinking, what am I doing?

Should I be doing this?

Should I be doing something else?

So that's the thing I'd like to leave.

That's fantastic.

That will go into the music room and so what piece of advice would you like to leave?

Well, I think based on where I am now and what we've discussed, that the best advice that I've ever sort of taken on board is to be authentic and to be yourself and to lead your own journey because you can't do this for somebody else.

You can't try and please the crowd.

You have got to find the thing that lights you up and just as they say, find what you love and do it till it kills you, basically.

So I really honestly, with hand on heart, everything that I've done in my career, all the times I've tried to get a leg up through networking or tried to make a wise business decision or shout about something I've done in my career, the happiest I've ever been is just following my own dreams and following my own leads.

So that is the advice I'd like to leave.

Thank you, Rich.

In October, I was joined by the fabulous actor Adrian Scarborough along with composer Ian Arbour to talk about on set music Adrian's first up with his item.

Well, I thought long and hard about this and often when I'm working on something, on a script, or particularly with something like Chelsea Detective, I have, you know, four 90 minute scripts that I've got to try and learn.

Not all at once, admittedly, but it means that I stop reading and I stop.

I stop reading novels.

So what I've found is, and particularly if I'm working away, what I slip into my bag is a.

Is some poetry.

Because poetry is very, very digestible.

You have enough room in your head to kind of just knock off a poem of an evening and it puts you in a different place and takes you somewhere else.

And I think it sort of opens up your.

To new ideas and to different things and it allows the light in a bit.

So I think volume of poetry.

And you're now going to ask me which volume of poetry.

And I've actually, I've come up with two.

One of them is called Weeding, by a very brilliant young Irish poet called Jess McKinney.

They're both Irish.

And the other is Seamus Heaney's the Spirit Level, which I just take everywhere with me because it's completely brilliant.

And you rediscover them again and again and again and just the insight to them is absolutely glorious and wonderful.

It's sort of like having a piece of music in your bag.

Yeah, yeah.

But it's very digestible and very easy.

I've also loved that you put importance on getting out of your own head and looking after your own mental health, essentially.

Indeed, indeed.

Yeah, that's.

Yeah.

Because one can get a bit, you know, if you're.

If you're doing six months of detective work day after day after day, it's quite important to take a step away from it as often as you possibly can.

Yeah.

Let your brain, otherwise you do go quietly mad.

Superb.

And so, piece of advice, what do you think?

Oh, my piece of advice is very, very simple.

I was told as a younger man, be a jack of all trades, master of none.

And I think that's such a brilliant piece of advice.

I think it serves you so well for many, many reasons, not least that again, it opens you up to opportunity.

So I've always been a great believer in doing as many different things as you possibly can, particularly as a character actor, because it meant that I was constantly employed and there was Marmite on the table.

So, you know, if you can do a radio play or you can, you know, present a concert, or you can, you know, Do a corporate video.

You could do a play, you could do a telly, you could do a film.

You can, you know, dance the tango for couple of minutes.

It just gives you the opportunity to.

Yeah.

Just pay the mortgage.

But also it takes you in the most fantastic and wonderful directions and often directions that you never, ever thought you'd go in.

The weirdest, most wonderful, unexpected things.

It's great.

Oh, that's fabulous.

Thank you.

Those are both going in the music room.

Ian, we were chatting before because you've appeared on this show before and you left a business card as your item.

You've changed your mind.

I can't remember the context of me leaving my business card, but I mean, that was just beautiful.

From Adrian.

I'm going to leave my business card in place because I'm sure I had some very strong advice around that.

Okay.

But yeah, I will adjust my.

I will adjust my advice.

And just to go back on from what I was saying about the Chelsea Detective, more than ever in my life, I realize it's about working with people you love working with.

And I think Chelsea Detective is such a lovely bubble of great people doing great things.

There's not a vicious person, there's not a bad bone in anyone's body.

And that crew.

And that was what I would update, actually.

Can't remember what I said for my advice before, but surround yourself with supportive people and stay away from the negativity and try and attract fun projects with good people rather than stressful situations.

Thanks to Adrian and Ian there.

Moving on then to November and we recorded a very special episode led by composer Helen Lyon.

Thank you, Helen.

Who invited on composers Ben McEvoy, Jenny Plant and Flo Sabaeva to talk about time management and being a parent in this crazy industry.

Over to you, Helen.

I would love you all, please too.

And this is what Gareth always does at the end of the podcast.

I'm going to go round, please.

And we'll start with you, Flo.

If you could leave one item in the music room when you go, what item would you leave and why would you leave it?

Well, yes, actually I have my calendar with reminder on my phone.

It's on my phone, so.

And then I write lists as well.

Every day, every evening.

Yeah.

Of the things I have to do.

Amazing.

So, yeah, there's the calendar remind.

I need reminder for everything.

So calendar reminder.

And I put everything in the calendar from what I'm going to do for breakfast, for lunch, part of the film and for my.

Okay, time of self care, whatever.

Not self care.

But everything.

So, yeah.

Amazing, amazing.

What about you, Jenny?

Have you got an item?

I've just looking to my.

Right here.

My red notebook.

Yes.

I'll leave my.

I'll leave my red notebook.

I have it open at all times in the day.

And it's a list.

It's got two sides.

One's like a life side and a work side and every day I add to it, you know, because you know how like, life is so hectic.

Like, I'll suddenly be like working on a track and I'll be like, ola's got a vaccination.

I've got to book it.

I gotta.

Or like, you know, I need to tell nursery about the holiday or, you know, and it's like you're back to the chords, you know, and so.

And I know that those thoughts will just go.

Otherwise I write everything down.

Because I just have to write everything down.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Yeah, that is genius.

So I have separate diaries, but I am going to do a page that is genuinely.

Because my brain works just like that.

I'll be working around and be like, oh, my God, did I put that slip in that bag?

Did I?

That's exactly, yeah.

I had to write it down.

When it.

When that thought comes, it's got to redown.

That's amazing.

What about you, Ben?

What's your item?

I sort of thought it should be something more, you know, sort of inspirational than what I'm about to say.

I think it's got to be my mobile phone.

It has to be.

You know, I think my relationship with my iPhone has evolved over the last nine years.

You know, it used to be sort of a business thing and it is still pretty much, you know, but it's this constantly being in communication.

I think that's the really key thing.

You know, it's the way my.

My wife gets hold of me.

It's the way school get hold of me.

It's the way that, you know, I have a sort of rotating photo in the background, which is just my kids.

So every five minutes it changes.

And so it's really become kind of like quite a.

Quite a fundamental part of my day just to sort of have it.

Yeah.

With me.

And it is all the work stuff as well.

It's got the to do lists and, you know, the kind of WhatsApp groups and all that kind of stuff.

But it's really in every part of my life, I guess, and I don't know without it.

Yeah, I think that's a really honest answer, actually.

I think that's we all rely so heavily.

And I think you're absolutely right.

Definitely.

And then the final one, this is more, I suppose, imaginative here.

We're leaving a piece of advice as parents, as creatives, as freelancers.

Flo, could I start with you?

Do you have any pearls of wisdom or any advice that you would leave to somebody to do what we do?

I think maybe one piece of advice would be just like, give yourself the time as well to figure it out and just organize it.

Don't put too pressure on yourself.

Because the first months that what I was doing, I was just like, oh, I need to work, I need to do this project.

And you burn out yourself and you want to do the long distance.

So you have to make some choices at some point, what's your priority?

And try to find a way to cram as many papers as possible in short amount of time.

So be more efficient.

But yes, Donald, I think, yeah, don't pressure yourself.

I think that's amazing advice.

I would definitely take that on.

Yeah.

And I think that it's difficult.

That goes for everybody always.

Isn't it difficult?

Absolutely.

Just try to not feel that pressure still now.

I try.

I was just like, I need to start just like, okay, now.

Can't do Edge of All the Time.

Yes, absolutely.

What about you, Ben?

What's your advice?

I.

I think I have.

I sort of have two, if I may, really briefly.

I think the first one is try not to feel guilty.

It's pretty massive.

This because, to be very brief, because I think this is a whole other topic about guilt and working in creative industries and being a parent.

That's the next podcast.

Yeah.

Next episode.

I think on both sides of my life, like on the personal side and on the kind of parenting side, I'm always sort of in danger of feeling really guilty.

You know, am I a good enough husband?

Am I a good enough parent?

Am I making the right decisions for my kids?

Am I working too hard?

Am I here too much in the studio, like with work as well?

It's just a constant.

It's a constant imposter syndrome.

You know, it's always like, am I any good at what I do?

So I think it's trying not to feel too guilty, I guess, in terms of both sides of the coin, really, I suppose.

And then the second bit is just to set work boundaries.

I always sort of joke with friends that if I wasn't married and didn't have kids that I just.

I'd be a workaholic.

But I genuinely actually think that would be true.

I think, I think I would find myself in the studio until 11pm most days.

And so I think, strangely, what's happened since having kids is it's kind of forced me to set those work boundaries in a really radically different way to what I was used to before.

You know, my kids are kind of, they're sort of fairly interested in music but they do not care what I do.

They're just not bothered about the projects that I work on.

I mean, it's just not interesting to them at all.

Even for my 9 year old, I thought I'd kind of reached the point where I was a cool dad.

She doesn't care, she's just not bothered.

She's not phased at all.

She just wants me to kind of be at home.

And I think that that's the really bizarre thing about this industry is that it, it consumes as much as you give it.

And I think, again, linked to the.

Link to the not feeling guilty thing.

You know, I love being a dad.

Like, I'm proud of being a dad.

That's the most important part of my whole life.

You know, it used to be that music was, was my baby and then there were babies and, you know, so it sort of weirdly shifts your whole perspective on life, doesn't it?

And I think, I think that setting those work boundaries is massively important to me because otherwise it just consumes absolutely everything.

Yeah, I've got to give it.

Absolutely.

That's my advice.

And you're so right, it does.

It's one of those things that it will just.

You give more and it'll just ask for more.

And I think because there's always more, there's always someone else doing something that you think you should be doing.

And why haven't you done that yet?

Because our network's so vast, isn't it, in terms of so easy to just think, oh, I really should be doing that other thing that that person's doing because then it'll lead to that thing and then I should do.

Yeah, I think that they're both excellent.

I'm glad you've lost both of those.

We'll keep both.

And then, Jenny, we're going to finish on you.

All great points.

And, you know, in a way similar to what Florence was saying, I think my piece of advice is to surrender to the chaos, basically.

You know, so many times, you know, I'll be completely honest, like, I get a call from nursery, Ola's got a temperature, she's got to come home and I'm Like.

Like, this is not how today it's supposed to be.

But then you're like, but she's number one.

Like, at the end of the day, like, forget.

Like, if, you know, you really have to call up someone, say, I'm really sorry, but I need an extra day on this deadline.

You know, you've got to surrender to that.

And I think before we can put so much pressure on ourselves to get things done and be right.

But, you know, we're parents, you know, the kids.

Number one.

If all has got to take that day off, nursery, you know, that's.

That's the situation.

And so, yeah, I think it's just.

Yeah.

Surrendering to the chaos on so many levels.

Yes.

Yeah.

An admission that it is chaos.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Admission that it is total chaos.

And then surrender to it.

And then every day is different.

And that brings us to now, December.

I want to thank all of the guests who've joined me this year.

Special thanks to Helen Lyon for coming up with the idea for that last episode and making it a really comfortable conversation with everyone.

And thank you, dear listener, for sticking with the Music room podcast in 2024.

If you're on Facebook and you're not a part of the Music Room Facebook group, come and join us.

We're a friendly bunch and we're always having really useful conversations as well as collaborations and stuff.

And finally, if you've enjoyed listening to this show, please, please, please pass on the positive and tell someone about it who might enjoy it, too.

Without further ado, then, I wish you a very happy and peaceful festive time in the next few weeks, and I'll be back in the Music Room soon.

Bye for now.