1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:00,500 Daniel Crosby So you you have stumbled. 2 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:02,500 Daniel Crosby You have stumbled onto one of my many soap boxes, but you know one of. 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:06,500 Daniel Crosby If you if you think about the interactions we have everyday, so many of us work remotely we we move around, we move through the day and almost everyone we interact with professionally, whether it's at the gas station or the grocery store or whatever. 4 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:21,500 Daniel Crosby It is this dance. 5 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:24,500 Daniel Crosby It is this dance of predictability and conform. 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:26,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,500 Daniel Crosby Committee and the lowest stakes, most superficial nonsense. Communication. How are you doing? 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:35,500 Daniel Crosby You. Yep. Good. 9 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:36,500 Daniel Crosby This. 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:37,500 Daniel Crosby Nice looking. 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:38,500 Daniel Crosby Well, you know, just, yeah, the weather sports. 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:39,500 Sam Sivarajan Or the weather. 13 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:42,500 Daniel Crosby No depth, no connection, no veracity to any of it. 14 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:47,500 Daniel Crosby And to be sat in a room with someone who says how are your relationships? 15 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:54,500 Daniel Crosby Is your health. 16 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:55,500 Daniel Crosby How is your personal growth? 17 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:57,500 Daniel Crosby What can I help you to do? 18 00:00:59,000 --> 00:00:59,500 Daniel Crosby To be a better human, leave a more lasting legacy. You know, this is something where we are so lucky as an industry. 19 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:09,500 Daniel Crosby Some more. 20 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:10,500 Daniel Crosby To people's hopes and dreams for us to ignore them and talk about Sharpe ratios or something is so silly. 21 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:19,500 Daniel Crosby In such a misapplication of trust and resources. 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:25,500 Sam Sivarajan This is the future ready advisor. 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,500 Sam Sivarajan A show about transforming your financial advisory practice. 24 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:31,500 Sam Sivarajan I'm your host, Sam Sivarajan, a wealth management consultant, behavioral scientist, and keynote speaker in this podcast. 25 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:40,500 Sam Sivarajan I dive deep into the real challenges advisors face and bring you insightful conversations with top industry experts. 26 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:44,500 I. 27 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:47,500 Sam Sivarajan Together, we'll explore practical strategies grounded in behavioral science to help you better serve your clients. 28 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:54,500 Sam Sivarajan Optimize your time and build a future ready practice. 29 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:56,500 No. 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:00,500 Sam Sivarajan Hi everyone. 31 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:01,500 Sam Sivarajan I'm Sam Severajan and welcome to the Future Ready advisor. 32 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:06,500 Sam Sivarajan I'm delighted to welcome Doctor Daniel Crosby, a psychologist, behavioral finance expert and best selling author whose work bridges the gap between money and meaning. 33 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:17,500 Sam Sivarajan Daniel's insights into why we make the financial choices we do and how we can do better have reshaped the way advisors approach wealth management. 34 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:27,500 Sam Sivarajan With best selling books like the behavioral investor, the laws of wealth and his latest soul of wealth, he's a leading voice in helping us understand not just the numbers, but the emotions and values behind them. 35 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:41,500 Sam Sivarajan Daniel, welcome to the show. 36 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:44,500 Daniel Crosby That may be the best intro I've ever received. 37 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:46,500 Daniel Crosby At. 38 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:47,500 Daniel Crosby This is incredible. 39 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:48,500 Daniel Crosby You. 40 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:50,500 Sam Sivarajan Wow, you're very kind and I'm very, very excited to have you on the show. 41 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:55,500 Sam Sivarajan You explored the intersection of psychology and finance with books like the ones that we've mentioned, including your latest the soul of wealth. 42 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:04,500 Sam Sivarajan Can you share for the audience a bit about your own? 43 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:07,500 Sam Sivarajan What drew you to this field, and perhaps how your work has evolved over time? 44 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:13,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah, it's a. It's a great. 45 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:15,500 Daniel Crosby So I am a clinical psychologist by education and I went to school initially to be a psychotherapist. 46 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:22,500 Daniel Crosby My dream and my ambition was to be a clinical counselor. 47 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:27,500 Daniel Crosby Lay down on the couch and tell me about your mom. 48 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:29,500 Daniel Crosby Kind of. 49 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:30,500 Daniel Crosby Kind of shrink and I was 23 years old when I started that Sam and I think that if you can think back to when you were 23, maybe you were more mature than me. 50 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:36,500 Mm. 51 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:42,500 Daniel Crosby But it isn't a prime time in life to be giving people life advice about how to live that life. 52 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:49,500 Daniel Crosby And so very quickly, very quickly, I I candidly burned out. 53 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:53,500 Daniel Crosby I just. 54 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:54,500 Daniel Crosby I was taking my work home with me. 55 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:57,500 Daniel Crosby It was enormously. 56 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:58,500 Daniel Crosby It's it's very important work. 57 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:01,500 Daniel Crosby So grateful. 58 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:02,500 Daniel Crosby 4 psychologists out in the world, but it's heavy work, and I was young and. 59 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:08,500 Daniel Crosby Had bad boundaries, and so I was burning out pretty badly and I went to my dad, who is what was and is a financial advisor. And I said to him, Dad like, I love studying human behavior. 60 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:21,500 Daniel Crosby Absolutely adore. 61 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:23,500 Daniel Crosby I was meant to do this. 62 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:25,500 Daniel Crosby But I don't know that I was meant to do this in a clinical context. 63 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:28,500 Sam Sivarajan Mm. 64 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:29,500 Daniel Crosby And I said are there. 65 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,500 Daniel Crosby There. 66 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:31,500 Daniel Crosby Are there non medical applications of psychology? 67 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:34,500 Daniel Crosby And he said, well, there's a ton of psychology in my work, which. 68 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:39,500 Daniel Crosby Shocked me at the time because in in my mind my dad was 1/2 sales guy and 1/2. 69 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:41,500 Mm. 70 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:47,500 Daniel Crosby Stock picker like in my imagination that is sort. 71 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:50,500 Daniel Crosby What he did? 72 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:51,500 Daniel Crosby Pick good stocks and gather assets, and his comment pointed me down a. 73 00:04:59,000 --> 00:04:59,500 Daniel Crosby Now this is whatever 17 years ago, my dad did not know what behavioral economics was. 74 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:05,500 Daniel Crosby Dad had never uttered the word behavioral finance as. 75 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:08,500 Daniel Crosby Wirehouse advisor in Alabama. 76 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:11,500 Daniel Crosby But he he knew that there was a lot of psychology in the work. And so that comment from him pointed me down this path to discover the condominium bright lights. 77 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:24,500 Daniel Crosby And to realize. 78 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:25,500 Daniel Crosby That there weren't a lot of people translating between the ivory towers of academia and folks like my dad who were working, you know, in in in everyday capacity with with real men and women boots on the ground, people with real lives. And and I thought there was an. 79 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:45,500 Daniel Crosby There to be sort of a translator. 80 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:48,500 Daniel Crosby Between. 81 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:49,500 Daniel Crosby Much smarter than. 82 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:50,500 Daniel Crosby And then the people doing. 83 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:51,500 Daniel Crosby Work. 84 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:53,500 Sam Sivarajan And so you've not looked back since. So I think that was great advice by your father. And it is funny, right? How the the the industry and the field has evolved in that time period. 85 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:05,500 Sam Sivarajan You said, I don't know. 86 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:07,500 Sam Sivarajan Too many people 152025 years ago would have understood the concept of investor psychology. 87 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:14,500 Sam Sivarajan Behavioral economics and now it's. 88 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:18,500 Sam Sivarajan I think it's become part of the tool kit of every you know, top advisor is at least to kind of give thought as to, you know, what might be going on behind the scenes for their, for their clients and how they might be better able to help them. 89 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:33,500 Sam Sivarajan Their motions in their day. 90 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:36,500 Daniel Crosby Financial decisions I I feel so lucky to have been around during this formative time. 91 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:42,500 Daniel Crosby You're. 92 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:42,500 Daniel Crosby I mean, I I remember pitching my first client. They they did end up becoming a client. 93 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:47,500 Daniel Crosby But you know, I came to them with this whole deck about behavioral economics and how I could help them, you know, revolutionize their business. 94 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:55,500 Daniel Crosby They were just like this is not a thing we have never, you know, we have never heard of this. 95 00:06:59,000 --> 00:06:59,500 Hmm. 96 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:01,500 Daniel Crosby And then I think you'd be very hard pressed to find an advisor who wasn't at least considering and implementing these things. 97 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:08,500 Daniel Crosby Hallway. And then if you think about the future, I mean, you know, people, auspicious groups like Mackenzie and their wealth management 20-30 survey, they say effectively this is where the whole industry is headed like that, you know, financial advisors are effectively going to be life coaches that. 98 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:21,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 99 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:27,500 Daniel Crosby To know how to run a financial plan. 100 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:29,500 Daniel Crosby The future, and that the human part will come first, and that the financial part will be deeply secondary. 101 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:36,500 Sam Sivarajan Well, I think you and I for vested interest probably that that viewpoint of McKinsey resonates. But your latest work. 102 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:44,500 Sam Sivarajan In my view, takes this to the next logical step, and I think it's interesting, right? 103 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:49,500 Sam Sivarajan Not going from just what emotions and the human side of it, we're going to. 104 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:56,500 Sam Sivarajan I would almost argue the deeply aspirational side of the human element right where you're talking about the profound connection between. 105 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:05,500 Sam Sivarajan Money and meaning. And it's it's it's a topic that resonates deeply with me. 106 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:11,500 Sam Sivarajan I'm curious as to what inspired you. 107 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:14,500 Sam Sivarajan To explore this particular subject at this particular time, and perhaps how you hope that in writing that book you hope to reshape the conversation around wealth and financial planning. 108 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:27,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah. So if you look at the growth of behavioral finance, it has by and large. 109 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:35,500 Daniel Crosby Mimicked the growth of psychology more broadly. If you think about the early days of psychology, you have the Freud. 110 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:43,500 Daniel Crosby World telling you why you're sad or broken or depressed, and in the early days of behavioral finance, you have this cataloging of all the ways we deviate from perfect rationality, which is necessary. 111 00:08:58,000 --> 00:08:58,500 Daniel Crosby Which was necessary to achieve a break with traditional economics. And so we had all these things like, oh, you're so silly or so stupid. You're so bad with money and for for years that was the message. That's what behavioral finance was, was longer and longer lists of how. 112 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:14,500 Daniel Crosby Get it wrong. 113 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:16,500 Daniel Crosby But if you look at, you know, starting in the mid 90s, it was not until the mid 90s. 114 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:21,500 Daniel Crosby That psychology broadly started to see the work of folks like Martin Seligman, who said let's study positive psychology instead of just studying what makes people sad or depressed. Let's study what makes a great leader. 115 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:35,500 Daniel Crosby Makes a great. 116 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:36,500 Daniel Crosby What makes a happy human? 117 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:38,500 Daniel Crosby And you see his work and others work around positive psychology. 118 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:43,500 Daniel Crosby That's where I think behavioral finance is. 119 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:45,500 Daniel Crosby Yes, we need to keep people out of their own way. 120 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:49,500 Daniel Crosby Part of it. 121 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:50,500 Daniel Crosby That's part of the work of an advisor is to keep people from tripping over their feet and getting in their own way and making these big behavioral blunders. 122 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:58,500 Daniel Crosby But once we've secured that once, we've figured that out, how do we help them put together lives of purpose and meaning? 123 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:06,500 Daniel Crosby Is much harder and much more aspirational in terms of in terms of why now. 124 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:13,500 Daniel Crosby Umm there were. 125 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:14,500 Daniel Crosby There were two. 126 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:15,500 Daniel Crosby There was a micro happening and a macro happening a micro. 127 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:19,500 Sam Sivarajan Mm. 128 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:21,500 Daniel Crosby We can talk about at length if you'd like, but Long story short, I thought I was dying. 129 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:26,500 Daniel Crosby I was not. 130 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:27,500 Daniel Crosby So I had a moment that I write about in the book where I was very concerned about my health and it ended up being. 131 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:33,500 Daniel Crosby Nothing. But in this moment I was in a lot of pain and there was a lot of uncertainty and IA guy who loves money, loves, loves, loves money, like thinks of, thinks about it, writes about it, dreams about it, saves it, invests it. 132 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:50,500 Daniel Crosby I would have given you every single dollar I had for. 133 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:54,500 Daniel Crosby Answers to my questions and an assurance that I was going to be OK. So it was the first time in my life where money felt very, very small to me and. 134 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,500 Daniel Crosby It made me want to write about about life and and not money. 135 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:08,500 Daniel Crosby The second thing is a macro thing. 136 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:10,500 Daniel Crosby Which is when the US was founded. 137 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:13,500 Daniel Crosby Sorry for my US centrism here. When the US was founded, 85% of the world lived in poverty, 85% of the world was living on what is today $2.00 or less per day. 138 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:26,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 139 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:26,500 Daniel Crosby Shot. Everyone was poor. Effectively. Today that number is 9% and it is continuing to fall because capitalism has created a global middle class. 140 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:39,500 Daniel Crosby World has never been richer, and yet you look in the richest places in the world. 141 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:45,500 Daniel Crosby America, right, for instance. 142 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:47,500 Daniel Crosby Most people my age and younger say that they're lonely. 143 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:51,500 Daniel Crosby Yep, the modal number of friends that an American male has is 0. 144 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:58,500 Daniel Crosby Yep, we are richer than we've ever been and we are. 145 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:02,500 Daniel Crosby We are richer than we've ever been, and it is not making us happy. And so at the macro level, I said. 146 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:08,500 Daniel Crosby The world needs some ideas about how to bridge this gap between material abundance and the psychological poverty that we're now experiencing. 147 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:19,500 Sam Sivarajan Look, I couldn't agree with you more. 148 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:20,500 Sam Sivarajan Dive into that a. 149 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:22,500 Sam Sivarajan I think the the point that you made about health, it's, I'm glad to hear that it's was nothing serious, but I think it's a journey that many of us can probably relate to. And I think as I get older, it's only now that I it's the wisdom of. 150 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:36,500 Sam Sivarajan Saying kind. 151 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:38,500 Sam Sivarajan Of makes sense to. 152 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:38,500 Sam Sivarajan It's that in your 20s, we sacrifice our our time and our health to chase money. 153 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:44,500 Sam Sivarajan And perhaps it's only in the 50s that you would want to sacrifice your money for health and time. 154 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:52,500 Sam Sivarajan Unfortunately, that equation only works One Direction, right? And we we don't really understand that until later time so. 155 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:00,500 Sam Sivarajan I think to your point, the enough data and enough research shows exactly what you've. 156 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:04,500 Sam Sivarajan You know, things like Hans Rosling's Factualness I think amplifies the the the view that the world has never been better in terms of material wealth and the law. 157 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:16,500 Sam Sivarajan Positive data points that we look at, but you can't blame. 158 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:21,500 Sam Sivarajan That rates of anxiety rates of depression rates of unhappiness are at all time highs as. 159 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:27,500 Sam Sivarajan So it sort of answers the question that I think has always been lurking behind most people's minds. 160 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:35,500 Sam Sivarajan Equals happiness and. 161 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:37,500 Sam Sivarajan There's lots of research out there that, yes, you need wealth to cover some basic living and shelter and food, but it doesn't automatically equate to beyond a certain point that more money is necessarily equal to more wealth. 162 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:51,500 Sam Sivarajan And I think one of the things that you've said in the book that really resonates with me is that money doesn't create values but amplifies them. 163 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:00,500 Sam Sivarajan Mean. I personally like that and it reminded me of the Stoic practice of contemplating death. 164 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:07,500 Sam Sivarajan Known as memanto Mori. 165 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:09,500 Sam Sivarajan The idea that you know, you remember that you will die. 166 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:13,500 Sam Sivarajan Now I know this sounds morbid, but it isn't meant to. 167 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:16,500 Sam Sivarajan And it's actually meant to be to sharpen your focus on what truly matters to you so that you're living your life for that. 168 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:24,500 Sam Sivarajan In that vein, how do you think financial advisors might be able to help clients identify and align their financial decisions with their most deeply held values? 169 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:37,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah, I'm laughing because I'm I'm holding up my memento Mori bracelet that I have on that my daughter made for me. 170 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:45,500 Daniel Crosby Umm, that's one of my favorite. 171 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:47,500 Daniel Crosby One of my favorite. 172 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:48,500 Daniel Crosby I'm sort of an existentialist guy, but same. Same idea. 173 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:52,500 Daniel Crosby So how do advisors get at and align their clients deeply held? 174 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:58,500 Daniel Crosby Well, the first thing is I think we have to recognize the impediments to that. 175 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:03,500 Daniel Crosby When we when we as an advisory community, ask people about their financial goals, it must be plainly said that the responses that we get are usually pretty lame. 176 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:15,500 Daniel Crosby Pretty tepid. 177 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:16,500 Sam Sivarajan Pretty trite, right? 178 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:17,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah, they're they're pretty trite and and there's a reason why. 179 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:21,500 Daniel Crosby The case. 180 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:22,500 Daniel Crosby Most people just don't really know what they want and and desire tends to be highly mimetic, meaning that we're subject to a lot of copycat behaviour. 181 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:33,500 Daniel Crosby And people don't know what it takes to fund a good. 182 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:33,500 Right. 183 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:36,500 Daniel Crosby So when you ask if you ask someone whose neighbor just got a lake house what their financial goals are, you're likely to hear a lake house. If you ask someone whose brother-in-law just sold a business for $5,000,000, what their financial goal is, it's to. 184 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:45,500 Daniel Crosby You. 185 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:51,500 Daniel Crosby Business for $6 million a lot. 186 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:53,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 187 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:54,500 Daniel Crosby You know, a lot of times it's it's compensatory compared. 188 00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:58,500 Daniel Crosby And it's sort of rooted in nothing. 189 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:01,500 Daniel Crosby And so it's this basic thing, but I think many of us have heard of this 5. 190 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:06,500 Daniel Crosby S exercise. 191 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:07,500 Daniel Crosby But you say you know, hey. 192 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:09,500 Daniel Crosby What do you want to? 193 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:10,500 Daniel Crosby Like, well, I want to solve my business for $6 million. 194 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:13,500 Daniel Crosby Why do you want to sell a business for $6 million? 195 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:18,500 Daniel Crosby My brother-in-law sold. 196 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:20,500 Daniel Crosby Well, but why is it important to you that it'd be more than? 197 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:23,500 Daniel Crosby Well, I've always felt, you know, I've always felt like I didn't matter much in the family and no one paid attention. And you, you know, you ask you, ask these five why's you go. Oh, OK. 198 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:33,500 Daniel Crosby What you're looking for is to leave an intellectual legacy and to be respected. 199 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:38,500 Daniel Crosby You. 200 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:39,500 Daniel Crosby You don't. 201 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:40,500 Daniel Crosby $6 million you you want respect. Now let's talk about what we're actually talking about. 202 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:48,500 Daniel Crosby People get. 203 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:49,500 Daniel Crosby Sucked into these memetic desires and just doing what everyone else is doing, but a lot of times they haven't examined the assumptions that sit beneath these things that they profess to want. 204 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:01,500 Daniel Crosby So the first thing we have to do as an advisory community is to stop taking things at face value. 205 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:08,500 Daniel Crosby And recognize not because clients are sneaky or bad. 206 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:12,500 Daniel Crosby Just because. 207 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:13,500 Daniel Crosby Living unexamined lives and and not take those things at face value. 208 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:17,500 Daniel Crosby Value if there's. If the voice isn't cracking a little bit when they tell you. 209 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:23,500 Daniel Crosby If there's not some heft and some emotion behind that statement of purpose, you're not there yet and you've you've got to keep going and you got to keep digging. 210 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:33,500 Daniel Crosby So that's the first thing is understand how to get to purpose in the first place. 211 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:37,500 Daniel Crosby And then once we're there. 212 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:39,500 Daniel Crosby You know, there's a chapter in the book called your Money needs a Why? And I I talk about some of the research around. 213 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:48,500 Daniel Crosby Blending money and meaning and and things like visualizing the future and naming your dollars. 214 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:53,500 Mm. 215 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:56,500 Daniel Crosby And Sam, it's almost like science fiction. How powerful it is. People who name their dollars, people who visualize this robust future. 216 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:06,500 Daniel Crosby They're dramatically more likely to. 217 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:08,500 Daniel Crosby They're dramatically less likely to panic sell. 218 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:11,500 Daniel Crosby Tend to have higher account balances. 219 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:13,500 Daniel Crosby Like so many of us have divorced money from life to the point that our our brokerage account just kind of seems like a video game. 220 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:23,500 Daniel Crosby And then when we reconnect those things, something magical happens. 221 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:27,500 Daniel Crosby And so that's I think the power is doing the hard work to get. 222 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:31,500 Daniel Crosby There, knowing that whatever they told you first is probably wrong. And then once you get there marrying it up with very practical elements of the financial plan and and watching that magic happen. 223 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:45,500 Sam Sivarajan I like. 224 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:45,500 Sam Sivarajan I think that's so. 225 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:47,500 Sam Sivarajan I think your point about the superficial answer, in my experience, it's. 226 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:53,500 Sam Sivarajan Not that they're trying to deceive. 227 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:54,500 Sam Sivarajan As you say, the client, but these are questions that no one's ever asked them, let alone they've asked themselves. 228 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:00,500 Sam Sivarajan And so I think the danger is to gloss over the answer. 229 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,500 Sam Sivarajan The. 230 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,500 Sam Sivarajan Ask the question. 231 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:07,500 Sam Sivarajan Get the answer right it down. 232 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:09,500 Sam Sivarajan And I think you're making a very powerful point, Daniel, that you have to dig deeper. You have to attack. 233 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:15,500 Sam Sivarajan You have to explore what is it that it means. The five YS is a great example, but in some ways the understanding that the advisor has to go into that conversation is. 234 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:25,500 Sam Sivarajan That the client is trying this on for size, it's almost like going into a dressing room to try on new clothes. 235 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:33,500 Sam Sivarajan Trying this answer on pre size and almost looking to you to say does that fit? 236 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:39,500 Sam Sivarajan That. 237 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:39,500 Sam Sivarajan Does that make sense? 238 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:41,500 Sam Sivarajan And I think what you're saying is that the advisor has to kind of in a very collaborative way almost challenge that thinking that the client is putting forward to say, OK, is this what you mean and why is that important to you? 239 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:56,500 Sam Sivarajan Why is intellectual valued validation important for you to use your? 240 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:01,500 Sam Sivarajan And why is getting selling your business for $1,000,000 more than what your brother-in-law sold? 241 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:10,500 Sam Sivarajan Your vision of how to achieve that validation. 242 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:13,500 Sam Sivarajan So I think that's a powerful point that you made. And the second point, I mean, I couldn't agree with you more about. 243 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:20,500 Sam Sivarajan It sounds a little woo woo for the financial world, but when people like Olympia and Michael Phelps or Tiger Woods or Novak Djokovic use visualization and use every. 244 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:32,500 Sam Sivarajan Replay. 245 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:33,500 Sam Sivarajan One of their senses visualize their goals and objective to make it real. 246 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:38,500 Sam Sivarajan I think it's a lesson that we can all draw even into our day-to-day financial goals. 247 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:46,500 Sam Sivarajan Now, sticking with that stoic philosophy, if I may. 248 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:51,500 Sam Sivarajan I'd like your point that to view wealth as a means rather than an end. 249 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:56,500 Sam Sivarajan How do you think the financial advisors can help? 250 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:02,500 Sam Sivarajan Clients retain that view, especially in a world where, as you say, it's so much of it is mimetic. So much of it is what you see on social media or influencers, etcetera. 251 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:14,500 Sam Sivarajan Can you? 252 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:15,500 Sam Sivarajan How can financial advisors help their clients? 253 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:19,500 Sam Sivarajan It isn't a. 254 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:20,500 Sam Sivarajan It isn't a game card that you're looking to see. You know how many points can you rack up? The whole point of the money is what? 255 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:25,500 Sam Sivarajan Do you want it to do for you? 256 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:28,500 Daniel Crosby So first we have to understand where people are starting from and we start from treating money as an indon to itself. 257 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:37,500 Daniel Crosby In my previous book, the Behavioral Investor. 258 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:40,500 Daniel Crosby I cited some of the neuro Economic Research that shows that people value money independent of what it can do for them, which is totally irrational, right? We should. 259 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:52,500 Daniel Crosby We should value money in so far as it is able to purchase the goods and services that we need to live the life that we want to live, and yet people. 260 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:01,500 Daniel Crosby Treat it like liquid happiness, right? 261 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:04,500 Daniel Crosby Treat it like the scorecard like you said, and they too tightly couple their self worth and their net worth. And I think we have to begin. 262 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,500 Good point. 263 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:16,500 Daniel Crosby We have to begin, first of all. 264 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:18,500 Daniel Crosby A recognition of an uncoupling of that net worth from that self worth, and then secondarily I think we have to give them, we have to substitute something. 265 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:31,500 Daniel Crosby In in the 1st Chapter I talk about Martin Seligman's PERMA Framework which is this sort of five part model. For thinking about a good life and. 266 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:42,500 Daniel Crosby That's a better proxy for joy than the dollars in your bank account, so you know, I think, you know, one of the things that we've done at Orion where I work as we've we've built these 6 dimensions of Wellness and it's things like, you know, how are your. 267 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:58,500 Daniel Crosby How is your health? 268 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:00,500 Daniel Crosby How is your personal growth and we have our advisors measure these things and report on them and set goals that are built into the financial plan. 269 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:05,500 Hmm. 270 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:10,500 Daniel Crosby Plan so you know, nature abhors a vacuum, and so we're not going to be able to replace this idea of money as the end all be all thermometer for our happiness and our self worth until we substitute it for something else. So. 271 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:28,500 Daniel Crosby It it may not be the perma model for you, it may be something else, but we have to give them something else to measure. 272 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:34,500 Daniel Crosby Because we are measuring creatures, and if it's not money, it's going to be something. So we have to think about what is a good life look like. 273 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:40,500 Daniel Crosby Are we? 274 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:41,500 Daniel Crosby And then try and go get more. 275 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,500 Daniel Crosby That. 276 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:44,500 Sam Sivarajan I really like that. 277 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:46,500 Sam Sivarajan I think the point that we we are a Society of. 278 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:50,500 Sam Sivarajan We evaluate ourselves on different measures and in, as you say, if you don't give them a better metric and they're going to rely on what's available. 279 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:00,500 Sam Sivarajan It's interesting that Orion does that. 280 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:02,500 Sam Sivarajan How are you finding advisors kind of evolving, if you will, to move to those different types of metrics from what they might perhaps might have been used to and their clients in terms? 281 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:15,500 Daniel Crosby So it must be said candidly that there is always some trepidation among advisers when we, when we roll out something like this. 282 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:25,500 Daniel Crosby And so just to get into the nitty gritty of it a little bit, what we do is we have these 6 dimensions, right. 283 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:30,500 Daniel Crosby Mentioned a few of them before. 284 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:32,500 Daniel Crosby But we give them in a very tech enabled, beautiful. 285 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:35,500 Daniel Crosby We give them to the client and we say, hey, we want you to rank these six things. 286 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:40,500 Daniel Crosby Are the six things that tend to predict like a happy, meaningful life? 287 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:45,500 Daniel Crosby We want. 288 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:45,500 Daniel Crosby We want you to rank them in the order that they're important to you. 289 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:50,500 Daniel Crosby And then we want you to drag them one to 10 to tell us how, how fulfilled you are in this area. 290 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:56,500 Daniel Crosby How are you? 291 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:57,500 Daniel Crosby Right. So let's say your relationships are #1 and your health is number 2. 292 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:01,500 Daniel Crosby My relationships are innate. My health is 5. Whatever. 293 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:06,500 Daniel Crosby So it gives us a sense there's an ability to sort of mass customize. 294 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:10,500 Daniel Crosby And what we're able to do is to calculate the biggest delta between importance and execution. 295 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:18,500 Daniel Crosby We're looking for places where a value is deeply valued but but poorly executed, right? 296 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:23,500 In front. 297 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:24,500 Daniel Crosby And so in my example we go. 298 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:26,500 Daniel Crosby Daniel, your health is a 5 out of 10. 299 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:29,500 Daniel Crosby What are we going to do in the new year to get your health, you know, north of five? 300 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:34,500 Daniel Crosby And does it? 301 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:36,500 Daniel Crosby Is there a financial element to? 302 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:38,500 Daniel Crosby Do you need to hire a personal? 303 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:39,500 Daniel Crosby Do you need to buy more fruits and? 304 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:41,500 Daniel Crosby You know, whatever we can, we can work that into a financial plan. 305 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:46,500 Daniel Crosby And what I find is that the advisors are almost universally fearful of this because it's messy. 306 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:53,500 Daniel Crosby You know, life life is messy and they're like, oh, God, what? 307 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:58,500 Daniel Crosby Know what happens if? 308 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,500 Daniel Crosby You know, they start talking about stuff that I don't know about or it gets too touchy feely and that almost never happens. 309 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:08,500 Daniel Crosby What you find is that the clients feel so hurt. They feel so listened to. They love that advice. 310 00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:16,500 Daniel Crosby They are so deeply grateful to have married their finance. 311 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:21,500 Daniel Crosby Lives with their personal lives and it's not it's not woo woo. 312 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:25,500 Daniel Crosby Not. 313 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:25,500 Mm. 314 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:26,500 Daniel Crosby It's not inappropriate or woo to say hey, let's help you get in shape and give you some money to do it. That's. 315 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:34,500 Daniel Crosby Mm hmm. 316 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:35,500 Daniel Crosby An sensible thing to do. 317 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:38,500 Daniel Crosby And so I think once you can get advisors to take that first step into the dark, they're sold because their clients love it so much and the feedback is so fantastic. 318 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:50,500 Daniel Crosby And it differentiates you. 319 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 320 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,500 Daniel Crosby I don't know the numbers for Canada, but in the US there's like 350,000 financial advisors. 321 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:01,500 Daniel Crosby And guess what? 322 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:02,500 Daniel Crosby As good as you think they are, they can all run a financial plan and they can all balance a portfolio. 323 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:08,500 Daniel Crosby And that is never going to be the thing that differentiates you and saying you're your family CFO or whatever. 324 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:15,500 Daniel Crosby Tired and lame and everyone does it. 325 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:18,500 Daniel Crosby And so I think we have to think about things that are truly differentiating and really knit us closely to our clients and stuff like this is what fits that bill. 326 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:30,500 Sam Sivarajan Oh, I love. 327 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:31,500 Sam Sivarajan And I think you're so right. And I think it's everything that you talked about, those technical table stakes, I think don't. 328 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:38,500 Sam Sivarajan Haven't mattered for a while, and certainly in the industry of the future where we're going towards with AI and everything else are going to matter less. 329 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:46,500 Sam Sivarajan So this idea of bringing out that human element that you talked about at the beginning is one way of doing that, and it strikes me, as you say, that's a very powerful way of doing it, to say where is that delta between your priority for this dimension and? 330 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:01,500 Sam Sivarajan Where you're at right now. 331 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:04,500 Sam Sivarajan I think. 332 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:05,500 Sam Sivarajan Clients are almost looking for permission to talk about this in in this context of a rational wealth plan and an advisor that can engage with them in a behavioral coach type of way where you're encouraging them to to give them permission to think about this. 333 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:25,500 Sam Sivarajan Important element of their plan and concrete ways to move forward to your point, I think you're going to create a trusted client that is going to value your relationship even more. 334 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:37,500 Daniel Crosby So you you have stumbled. 335 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:38,500 Daniel Crosby You have stumbled onto one of my many soap boxes, but you know one of. 336 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:44,500 Daniel Crosby If you if you think about the interactions we have every day, so many of us work remotely we we move around, we move through the day and almost everyone we interact with professionally, whether it's at the gas station or the grocery store or whatever. 337 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:00,500 Daniel Crosby It is this dance. 338 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:03,500 Daniel Crosby It is this dance of predictability and conformity and. 339 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:05,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 340 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:08,500 Daniel Crosby The lowest stakes, most superficial. Nonsense communication. 341 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:13,500 Daniel Crosby Are you? 342 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:13,500 Daniel Crosby Good you. Yep. Good. How's this weekend? 343 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:16,500 Daniel Crosby Looking good. 344 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:17,500 Daniel Crosby Well, you know just. 345 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:19,500 Daniel Crosby Or the weather. Yeah, the weather. 346 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:22,500 Daniel Crosby No. 347 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:22,500 Daniel Crosby Depth. 348 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:23,500 Daniel Crosby Connection. No veracity to any of it, right? And to be sat in a room with someone who says how are your relationships? 349 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:35,500 Daniel Crosby Is your health. 350 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,500 Daniel Crosby How is your personal growth? 351 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:38,500 Daniel Crosby What can I help you to do? 352 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:40,500 Daniel Crosby To be better, a better human leave a more lasting legacy six months hence. When we talk next, what can I help you do to get there? 353 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:50,500 Daniel Crosby That is like a breath of fresh air the likes of which you nobody asks you about, that your dentist not talking to you about, that your accountant's not going to talk to you about that. 354 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:01,500 Daniel Crosby This is something where we are so lucky as an industry. 355 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:06,500 Daniel Crosby To be proximal to people's hopes and dreams, and for us to ignore them and talk about Sharpe ratios or something is so silly and such a misapplication of of trust and resources. 356 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:20,500 Sam Sivarajan Look what you were saying reminded me of the saying by Maya Angelou that long after, people forget what you've said is how you made them feel right. 357 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:28,500 Sam Sivarajan I think that's exactly what you're talking. 358 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:30,500 Sam Sivarajan You don't even have to get the words right. 359 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:32,500 Sam Sivarajan Doesn't have to be solilique or anything else. 360 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:36,500 Sam Sivarajan Is just a genuine authentic. 361 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:39,500 Sam Sivarajan Care for your client and wanting to help them get to that next stage of their purpose and. 362 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:46,500 Sam Sivarajan Happiness, I think if you can do that and engage in that conversation. I've always said it's it's asking the question, not necessarily with the objective of finding an answer because there might not be an. 363 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:58,500 Sam Sivarajan But the very fact that you've asked a question and genuinely want to. 364 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:01,500 Sam Sivarajan The. 365 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:02,500 Sam Sivarajan I think can make all the difference in how that client receives you. 366 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:06,500 Daniel Crosby I wanna say Amen to something. 367 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:08,500 Daniel Crosby Just said there because. 368 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:10,500 Daniel Crosby I think one of the concerns that I get from advisors sometimes is, well, what do I say here and almost like is there a script for this and how do I introduce this and? 369 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:20,500 Sam Sivarajan Introducing. 370 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:23,500 Daniel Crosby People have a sixth sense for authenticity. 371 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:27,500 Daniel Crosby If you are stumbling and fumbling your way through a true desire to help them, and a true desire to help them grow, it honestly does not matter what you say, it will shine through. And if you don't give a RIP about how they are, there's nothing you can. 372 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:45,500 Sam Sivarajan Also trying to. 373 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:46,500 Daniel Crosby There's nothing you can say, like if that that will be transparent as well. 374 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:50,500 Daniel Crosby So it's it's much more about getting you know the motivation right then it is getting the words right. 375 00:31:59,000 --> 00:31:59,500 Sam Sivarajan No, Daniel, I think you'll agree with this statement. 376 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:04,500 Sam Sivarajan But I won't put words in your mouth. 377 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:05,500 Sam Sivarajan Our our perspective on money, I think often involves with our life experiences as we get older. 378 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,500 Sam Sivarajan Know for sure mine has. 379 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,500 Sam Sivarajan How has your own view of money changed over time, and what insights do you think that younger listeners, younger advisors, might be able to take from your journey? 380 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:24,500 Daniel Crosby So it's interesting my. 381 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,500 Daniel Crosby I I at least. 382 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:29,500 Daniel Crosby Partially agree with it. So my my. 383 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:33,500 Daniel Crosby Take on money has evolved over time, but I don't know that there's anything anyone should take from it. 384 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:38,500 Daniel Crosby What do I mean by that? 385 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:41,500 Daniel Crosby Money has become less important to me with age. 386 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:47,500 Daniel Crosby But that's also because I have a lot more money. 387 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:49,500 Daniel Crosby And I think this is, I think this is something we run into. 388 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:49,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 389 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:53,500 Daniel Crosby There's a survivorship bias, and there's sort of a a a rich folks bias to, you know, we're taking advice from billionaires who are telling us to follow our dreams and and live our passions. 390 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:06,500 Daniel Crosby It's like well. 391 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah, yeah. Easy for you to say. If I if I had $200 billion, I would also follow my dreams. But but I don't. 392 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:08,500 Sam Sivarajan Easy for you. 393 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:09,500 Sam Sivarajan Say right? 394 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:14,500 Sam Sivarajan All right. 395 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:16,500 Daniel Crosby I'm gonna go pay my mortgage so. 396 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:19,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah, I mean, definitely, definitely my own journey with money has been. 397 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:25,500 Daniel Crosby To value it less and to value relationships. 398 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:30,500 Daniel Crosby To value intellectual contribution more and legacy more and all of that is good. 399 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:36,500 Daniel Crosby It sounds lofty, but I also think that we as. 400 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:41,500 Daniel Crosby We, as an industry of largely well to do folks, I mean this is finances and industry that pays its people well by and large. 401 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:50,500 Sam Sivarajan Mm. 402 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:50,500 Daniel Crosby And so I do think that there's a danger that we can become sort of divorced from the people that we are trying to serve. 403 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:58,500 Daniel Crosby I think a lot of people fall through the cracks because we're giving advice, you know, not where you and I are not billionaires. 404 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:06,500 Daniel Crosby I don't see your checkbook, Sam, but I'm not a billionaire. 405 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:09,500 Sam Sivarajan Trust me, I'm. 406 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,500 Daniel Crosby You know, you and I are not billionaires then and but still we've been blessed and we have. 407 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:18,500 Daniel Crosby And I think that, you know, we have to be careful to not be philosophizing from this perch where we're letting the realities of everyday folks. 408 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:27,500 Daniel Crosby Through the cracks. 409 00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:31,500 Sam Sivarajan No. Look I. 410 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:32,500 Sam Sivarajan I think that's a valid point and we live in a time where, yes, there's abundance, but we live in a time where I think, you know, there are many, many people that are struggling to get by. And I think that that is the reality of it and this. 411 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:45,500 Sam Sivarajan Not an attempt to gloss over. 412 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:47,500 Sam Sivarajan The idea of trying to make the point that money is not important. I mean that's just not going. 413 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:52,500 Sam Sivarajan Obviously we need money to buy food to get. 414 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:55,500 Sam Sivarajan I think perhaps I can speak for myself and I'm certainly not a billionaire, but I think my. 415 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:01,500 Sam Sivarajan Relationship with money is evolved in much the same way as yours has, and for the same reasons okay it's. 416 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:08,500 Sam Sivarajan I have more of it than I did when I was. 417 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:10,500 Sam Sivarajan My. 418 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:11,500 Sam Sivarajan Perhaps it's it's it's easy to say this in a, you know, in the rearview mirror, but I think my relationship with money has changed as well. 419 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:19,500 Sam Sivarajan I don't value it in the same way or put a priority on it in the same way that perhaps I might have done in the 20s or. 420 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:27,500 Sam Sivarajan That using it as a scorecard, as I might have done in the 20s. 421 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:31,500 Sam Sivarajan And I fully admit that it's sort of easier to say that when you're not worried about having a roof over your head. 422 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:38,500 Sam Sivarajan But I do think that part of. 423 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:41,500 Sam Sivarajan We are in today's world is I think that there is this tendency to focus on materialism because of what social media and others kind of influence us through this mimetic behavior. 424 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:53,500 Sam Sivarajan I I think that's where. 425 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:56,500 Sam Sivarajan I dare say where an advisor can play a role to help a client understand. 426 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:00,500 Sam Sivarajan And what is their true motivations for wanting more or doing whatever that they want to do, as you say, are you really looking to maximize the value of the business that you sell because you think it's worth that much or you have plans for that money or is? 427 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:16,500 Sam Sivarajan Simply to be able to brag at the next cocktail party. 428 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:20,500 Sam Sivarajan I I think having that kind of a conversation and trying to. 429 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,500 Sam Sivarajan Get that? 430 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:24,500 Sam Sivarajan Of a motivation from from a client is a real value that an advisor can provide. 431 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:29,500 Sam Sivarajan Bye. 432 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:30,500 Daniel Crosby I think you're absolutely. 433 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:32,500 Daniel Crosby I think not enough advisors have embraced that value and it gets so easy in North America, where being wealthy, working hard. 434 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:45,500 Daniel Crosby Are entirely consistent with. You know, everything that's just in the water culturally. 435 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:51,500 Daniel Crosby Nobody's ever going to give you a hard time, and I think that. 436 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:55,500 Daniel Crosby I think that a lot of people, if you even said, well, why do you work so? 437 00:36:59,000 --> 00:36:59,500 Daniel Crosby Why do you care so much about making money? You would go. Oh, well, I want my kids to have the things that I never had. 438 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:05,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 439 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:06,500 Daniel Crosby And that's sort of lofty sounding BS sometimes and and really, you know, really what your kids want is you, your your time they want. 440 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:16,500 Daniel Crosby You know they want. 441 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:17,500 Daniel Crosby They want you or your presence, but it sounds so compelling and right in and it sounds so, yeah. 442 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:23,500 Sam Sivarajan And altruistic right that you're doing it for their, you know, for the right reasons. 443 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:26,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah, it sounds self sacrificial. 444 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:28,500 Daniel Crosby Sounds altruistic. 445 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,500 Daniel Crosby But you go look your kid maybe doesn't need a fifth trip to. 446 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:35,500 Daniel Crosby They may need, you know, they may need more time with you and maybe you're a little more ego driven than you'd like to say. 447 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:43,500 Daniel Crosby And what this really is is. 448 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:46,500 Daniel Crosby You avoiding the rigors of home life. 449 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:48,500 Daniel Crosby You avoiding XYZ things. 450 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:50,500 Daniel Crosby Right. Or or you wanting to be a big deal in the corporate world and getting your back? 451 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:55,500 Daniel Crosby That way, and and framing it in altruistic. 452 00:37:58,000 --> 00:37:58,500 Daniel Crosby So, because our culture adores money at the level that it does, and because it rewards hard work the way that it does. 453 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:07,500 Daniel Crosby And consumerism. 454 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:08,500 Daniel Crosby You're never gonna get a hard time effectively for saying I want to work harder. I want to make. 455 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:14,500 Daniel Crosby That is deeply resonant with everything that the West values, and so somebody's got to call you on that nonsense at some point. 456 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:23,500 Daniel Crosby And that's a tough gig for an advisor, but I think it it. 457 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:25,500 Daniel Crosby Improves clients lives. 458 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:28,500 Sam Sivarajan Yeah, because the danger is the clients are fooling. 459 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:31,500 Sam Sivarajan And it's only on their deathbed that they sort of realized that they have that aha moment where they say, can be honest with themselves to say, well, that isn't really what I wanted. 460 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:40,500 Sam Sivarajan Wasn't doing it for those reasons, but unfortunately now it's too late, right? 461 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:44,500 Daniel Crosby Well, you know we we talked about Memento Mori earlier. 462 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:48,500 Daniel Crosby Know I cite. 463 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:49,500 Daniel Crosby From Brawney, where this palliative care nurse in in Australia and she interviewed hundreds of people who were dying and working, money only comes up in one capacity and it's I wish I had not cared so much and worked so hard. 464 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:03,500 Daniel Crosby I wish. 465 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:04,500 Daniel Crosby When death brings. 466 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:07,500 Daniel Crosby Life into the you know what matters in life into sharpest relief. 467 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:12,500 Daniel Crosby The only thing we think about work is I wish I had done less of it and we would be wise to learn from those people who gone before us there. 468 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:21,500 Sam Sivarajan Yeah. 469 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:22,500 Sam Sivarajan And it's a great book. 470 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:23,500 Sam Sivarajan It's lessons for us to learn before it's too late, right? 471 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:31,500 Sam Sivarajan We talked about the idea of values and emotions around money, and obviously that's touchy, sensitive type of topics and I can totally empathize with an advisor that would feel a little leery about broaching that subject. 472 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:46,500 Sam Sivarajan Do you have any strategies that you might recommend for advisors to kind of help foster that kind of open and non judgmental conversations with their? 473 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:56,500 Daniel Crosby So I think you know, let's, let's talk with with respect to money and values. 474 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:00,500 Daniel Crosby Talk about what's our job and what's not our job. 475 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,500 Daniel Crosby No, I. 476 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:04,500 Daniel Crosby There's two chapters in the book where I talk about values and money. 477 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:11,500 Daniel Crosby And you know, one of the things that I don't think people realize is that your money is your vote in a very real sense. 478 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:21,500 Daniel Crosby You know, we the way we spend our money. 479 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:26,500 Daniel Crosby Materially creates the world around us and if you want more of a thing, spend money on it. And if you want less of a thing, stop spending money on it. 480 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:34,500 Daniel Crosby So that's one. 481 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:36,500 Daniel Crosby Is what kind of world do you want to live? 482 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:38,500 Daniel Crosby I had this really interesting and sweet interaction with a kid of mine. 483 00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:43,500 Daniel Crosby A few months ago, we were at a farmers market and we almost every Saturday we we go down to this local farmers market and our little suburban downtown here. 484 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:54,500 Daniel Crosby And my kids go shopping with me at the regular store too, so they kind of sort of know what stuff costs. And and we were buying spaghetti sauce from, you know, a local entrepreneur. And it was expensive. 485 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:06,500 Daniel Crosby I mean, it was, you know, double double what it costs in the store. And my kid, after we had left and bought this marinara sauce. 486 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:07,500 Yeah. 487 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:13,500 Daniel Crosby My kid is like that is way more than it is in the store and I was like, yeah, absolutely. Well, why? 488 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:20,500 Daniel Crosby Did you do that? 489 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:21,500 Daniel Crosby And I said because I wanna live in a world. 490 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:25,500 Daniel Crosby Where I can take you out for a walk on a Saturday morning? 491 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:29,500 Daniel Crosby And I can support an entrepreneur who's doing their best. 492 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:32,500 Daniel Crosby It's not because it tastes better. 493 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:34,500 Daniel Crosby It's not because it's a great value. 494 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:36,500 Daniel Crosby It's because I value. 495 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:39,500 Sam Sivarajan What it means? 496 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:40,500 Daniel Crosby Yeah, I I value what it. 497 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:42,500 Daniel Crosby I value the existence of this farmers market and that entrepreneurs livelihood and so like, yeah, I can take a hit on some $15 spaghetti sauce and like, I guess I'm going to you know so because I want to create that world. 498 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:54,500 Daniel Crosby I think we need to educate our clients about that. 499 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:57,500 Daniel Crosby I think we can also educate our clients on. 500 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:01,500 Daniel Crosby The fact that the way we spend our money. 501 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:05,500 Daniel Crosby Is the ultimate BS detector when it comes to what we say we value. You know, if you say you value spirituality, how much money did you give? 502 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:09,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 503 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:12,500 Call. 504 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:14,500 Daniel Crosby You know, did you spend on self improvement? 505 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:16,500 Daniel Crosby Much did you? 506 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:17,500 Daniel Crosby How much did you spend on personal growth? 507 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:21,500 Daniel Crosby You know, if we say we value fitness, how do you have a gym membership? 508 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:25,500 Daniel Crosby You pay a. 509 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:26,500 Daniel Crosby Did you buy healthy food? 510 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:29,500 Daniel Crosby A lot of times we there's this disconnect between what we say we value and how we actually move. 511 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:35,500 Daniel Crosby The world. 512 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:37,500 Daniel Crosby And money has the ability. Our budget has the ability to cut through that smoke and that self deception and tell us what we value. 513 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:45,500 Daniel Crosby I don't think it's ever an advisor's job to instruct their clients on what they should or shouldn't value. 514 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:51,500 Daniel Crosby But whatever it is that they value. 515 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:54,500 Daniel Crosby Money can be a bit of a North star and a bit of a compass there to show them. 516 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:00,500 Daniel Crosby Whatever disconnect may exist between what they profess to value and how they're actually moving through the world. 517 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:07,500 Sam Sivarajan I love that Daniel and I couldn't agree with you. 518 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:09,500 Sam Sivarajan I think you're right it this is not about being judgmental, but it's about being a mirror to some extent, to your client to say, OK, this is what you say, that you value, but this is what you're doing. Is that consistent? 519 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:21,500 Sam Sivarajan And again, because all of us are human and we get caught up in our own kind of perspective or the. 520 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:28,500 Sam Sivarajan Tell ourselves, and we need a trusted advisor, family member, friend to be able to tell us that. 521 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:36,500 Sam Sivarajan You may not be aware of this, but this is your intention and this is your action. 522 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:41,500 Sam Sivarajan You intend for there to be this gap between the two, or not. 523 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:45,500 Sam Sivarajan Right. 524 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:46,500 Sam Sivarajan And I love the story of you. You teaching your your son. Not only are teaching him the value of money, but also. 525 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:52,500 Sam Sivarajan Values per SE so that they grow up with with both so that when they get into the world that they're able to marry the two in a in a hopefully in a in a more coherent way. 526 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:08,500 Daniel Crosby You've. 527 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:10,500 Sam Sivarajan Highlighted some of the psychological barriers to happiness that wealth can create. 528 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:17,500 Can. 529 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:17,500 Sam Sivarajan You talk about some of this in your. 530 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:19,500 Sam Sivarajan What are some of the most common traps? I mean, maybe you can list one or two and how do you think that advisors might be able to help clients avoid them? 531 00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:29,500 Daniel Crosby So when it when it comes to happiness and money, the research is really interesting. 532 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:35,500 Daniel Crosby I think a lot of advisors will have heard the khanom and indeed in study from from few years ago that talked about it $75,000 US. 533 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:44,500 Daniel Crosby You know, happiness, kind of. 534 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:46,500 Daniel Crosby Well, there's, that's that's kind of true because there's no, there's no blood test for happiness, of course. So you've got to operationalize it some some way. You've got to sort of decide how you're going. 535 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:50,500 Yeah. 536 00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:58,500 Daniel Crosby It and the way that Kahneman and Deaton chose to measure it, was had a lot of physical aspects to. 537 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:04,500 Daniel Crosby It ended up loading onto things like pain and so yeah, like money can buy you an absence of pain because at a certain level you can afford healthy food. 538 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:15,500 Daniel Crosby Can go to the doctor. 539 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:16,500 Daniel Crosby Can you know whatever. 540 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:18,500 Daniel Crosby Get, you know, get surgery can live in a warm house. 541 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:22,500 Daniel Crosby Money does a good job of getting us out of misery. 542 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:26,500 Daniel Crosby But then we also know that for another group of people that for a lot of people, money accelerated all the way up to half $1,000,000 in income a year. And for about 1/3 of people that started accelerating after about $100,000 per year. 543 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:42,500 Daniel Crosby So it matters how we measure happiness. 544 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:45,500 Daniel Crosby Then we also see that about 15% of people money has no effect on their happiness. 545 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:53,500 Daniel Crosby What? 546 00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:55,500 Daniel Crosby And that's because they have a different problem, and that is because wherever you go there you are and there is not enough money in the world. Like if you're if your depression is organic, right. 547 00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:07,500 Daniel Crosby That's a different, that's a different. 548 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:10,500 Daniel Crosby That's a different ball of. 549 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:11,500 Daniel Crosby If your depression is because of situational things, maybe you need therapy and not a bigger paycheck. 550 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:18,500 Daniel Crosby So for about 15% of people, money has no effect. But then we see that beyond that, it matters how you spend. 551 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:26,500 Daniel Crosby And the best ways to spend money for happiness. 552 00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:30,500 Daniel Crosby To give it away, to buy yourself experiences over things, to spend it on deepening relationships. You know, one of the things that I thought was fascinating that I talked about in the book is people who buy a new car. 553 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:35,500 Sam Sivarajan Mm. 554 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:46,500 Daniel Crosby See a very short lived bump in. 555 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:48,500 Daniel Crosby Very short lived because very quickly we get habituated to that new car and it's just like a car now, like just the new car smells gone and gets dinged up a little bit. 556 00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:58,500 Daniel Crosby Just a car. 557 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:00,500 Daniel Crosby People who buy a car to join a car club. 558 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:05,500 Daniel Crosby If Sam buys a new Ferrari to join the Ferrari Club of Toronto, that actually does buy lasting happiness. 559 00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:13,500 Daniel Crosby Because you've bought yourself a set of friends. 560 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:16,500 Daniel Crosby Bought yourself something to do on. 561 00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:18,500 Daniel Crosby You bought yourself an experiences so spending on relationships, giving it away, spending on experiences and getting out of work you hate. 562 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:19,500 Sam Sivarajan Experiences. 563 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:29,500 Daniel Crosby Are all things you can do to kind of to kind of get get to. 564 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:34,500 Sam Sivarajan Yeah, I like. 565 00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:35,500 Sam Sivarajan You made a very important point in my view that we started off talking about the evolution of psychology from being this negative pain associated thing. And it was Seligman and his colleagues that brought in this idea of positive psychology that. 566 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:49,500 Sam Sivarajan Happiness is something more than the absence of pain. 567 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:52,500 Sam Sivarajan Is. 568 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:53,500 Sam Sivarajan It is something positive that we strive for in my mind. I think that's a very important thing to keep in mind for advisors that for most of our clients. 569 00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:03,500 Sam Sivarajan They're past that absence of pain threshold, if you will, and that it's really they're trying to figure out how they move into that positive half of that equation, if you will. 570 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:15,500 Sam Sivarajan I think the things that you talked about. 571 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:18,500 Like. 572 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:18,500 Sam Sivarajan Experiences, relationships, or what's going to help most of them get there. And I think that's what an advisor can do to help remind their clients that that's that may be the ticket. 573 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:30,500 Sure. 574 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:32,500 Sam Sivarajan Daniel, this has been. 575 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:35,500 Sam Sivarajan A phenomenal discussion very near and dear to my heart. Umm. So I want to ask you a few final rapid fire questions that I ask all of my guests. So if you're ready. 576 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:47,500 Sam Sivarajan Professionally, what is the most important lesson you've learned over the years? 577 00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:57,500 Daniel Crosby This is so depressing. 578 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:01,500 Daniel Crosby No. 579 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:01,500 Daniel Crosby No one, no one cares about your work. 580 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,500 Daniel Crosby Just. 581 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:06,500 Go. 582 00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:06,500 Daniel Crosby Just go do it. 583 00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:07,500 Daniel Crosby Go do what matters to you. 584 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:09,500 Daniel Crosby I think a lot of times we try and be impressive or. 585 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:12,500 Daniel Crosby Climb the ranks and everyone you know, everyone you meet is fighting their own hard battle. No one cares about you, so go do go. Do what matters to you. 586 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:21,500 Sam Sivarajan That's such a beautiful lesson and it's so. 587 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:23,500 Sam Sivarajan It's and it's taken me years to learn and I have to learn it every day and fortunately. 588 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:27,500 Daniel Crosby Mm. 589 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:29,500 Sam Sivarajan #2 what is 1 practical tip you would offer listeners keen on applying your insights. 590 00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:36,500 Daniel Crosby So one of the simplest but most powerful things that I found when researching the book was that writing down one thing you're grateful for every day was good for a 10% boost in happiness, which is equivalent to taking psychiatric medication. 591 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:51,500 Daniel Crosby By the way. 592 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:53,500 Daniel Crosby Which is the equivalent. 593 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:53,500 Daniel Crosby You know the equivalent boost. 594 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:55,500 Daniel Crosby Not against. 595 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:56,500 Daniel Crosby That's there are different different things, but. 596 00:49:59,000 --> 00:49:59,500 Daniel Crosby Umm that simple. 597 00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:01,500 Daniel Crosby One thing you're grateful for at the end of every day is like just unreal bang for buck in terms of your happiness. 598 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:09,500 Sam Sivarajan So powerful I got into this habit on my wife's encouragement. 599 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:13,500 Sam Sivarajan Maybe about 10 years ago, it's. 600 00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:17,500 Sam Sivarajan Interesting how profound that can. 601 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:20,500 Sam Sivarajan There's lots of things that most of us have to be grateful for, but in the day-to-day hustle and bustle, it's easy to overlook it. 602 00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:28,500 Sam Sivarajan I think that's very powerful advice. 603 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:33,500 Sam Sivarajan Daniel, if listeners want to learn more about you or find your work, where should they go? 604 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:40,500 Daniel Crosby Go by the soul of wealth and read it and love it. 605 00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:43,500 Daniel Crosby That's number one. 606 00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:44,500 Sam Sivarajan Great book. I love it. 607 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:45,500 Daniel Crosby Thank you. 608 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:47,500 Daniel Crosby I have a podcast called Standard deviations, which I'd love for you to listen to, and then I am on Twitter Daniel Crosby and on LinkedIn. Daniel Crosby, PhD. 609 00:50:59,000 --> 00:50:59,500 Sam Sivarajan Daniel, this has been a really, really fun conversation. I always enjoy talking with you. So thank you so much for joining us today on the future Ready advisor. 610 00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:08,500 Daniel Crosby Sam, it's great to chat with someone so like minded. 611 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:11,500 Daniel Crosby For the work you're doing. 612 00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:25,500 Sam Sivarajan In this episode of The Future Ready Advisor, I spoke with Doctor Daniel Crosby, a psychologist, behavioral finance expert, and a best selling author. 613 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:36,500 Sam Sivarajan Here are my three key takeaways from this thought provoking discussion. 614 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:40,500 Sam Sivarajan Number one, align money with meaning. 615 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:43,500 Sam Sivarajan True financial well-being isn't about accumulating wealth. 616 00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:47,500 Sam Sivarajan It's about aligning financial decisions with your core values. Advisors need to dig deeper beyond surface level goals to help clients uncover their why and make money serve. 617 00:51:59,000 --> 00:51:59,500 Sam Sivarajan A purpose driven life. 618 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:01,500 Sam Sivarajan #2 the power of relationships and experiences. 619 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:05,500 Sam Sivarajan Wealth maximization often misses the mark on happiness. 620 00:52:09,000 --> 00:52:09,500 Sam Sivarajan Daniel highlights that spending on experiences, nurturing relationships, and giving back, creating more lasting satisfaction than simple mater. 621 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:20,500 Sam Sivarajan Ossessions. 622 00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:21,500 Sam Sivarajan #3 advisors as behavioral coaches, the future of advising lies in human connection. 623 00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:28,500 Sam Sivarajan Clients crave meaningful conversations about life, not just portfolios. By exploring clients, values, and motivations. 624 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:37,500 Sam Sivarajan Advisors can foster trust, differentiate themselves, and truly impact lives. 625 00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:42,500 Sam Sivarajan These insights remind us that great advising blends financial expertise with an authentic understanding of what makes life meaningful. 626 00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:53,500 Sam Sivarajan Thank you for tuning into the future Ready advisor. 627 00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:00,500 Sam Sivarajan You've been listening to the future Ready advisor. If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review on Apple Podcasts or a rating on Spotify, or share your feedback wherever you listen. 628 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:11,500 Sam Sivarajan Be sure to follow the podcast. 629 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:14,500 Sam Sivarajan So you never miss an episode. For more insights on how to keep your practice future ready, visit www.sams. 630 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:23,500 Sam Sivarajan Calm. You can find the link on the show notes. 631 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:26,500 Sam Sivarajan There you'll find free tools and resources along with exclusive bonus content from these podcasts. 632 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:28,500 The. 633 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:33,500 Sam Sivarajan Thanks for tuning in and I look forward to sharing more strategies with you in the next episode.