1 00:00:01,170 --> 00:00:18,990 Mark Petach, behavioral economist and psychologist at Quilter joins us this week to tell us how he navigated himself through the toughest periods of his life and how they influenced him to create the meaningful work-life balance he enjoys today from working in finance, losing his job. 2 00:00:19,784 --> 00:00:26,264 Dealing with family illness to then starting his own consultancy and even going back to university at 50. 3 00:00:26,685 --> 00:00:33,165 This week's, BWB Extra gets to know the highs and lows of Mark Pot, Tao's life story a little better. 4 00:00:36,584 --> 00:00:38,055 So let's wind the clock back. 5 00:00:38,325 --> 00:00:39,885 How did you end up doing what you're doing? 6 00:00:40,305 --> 00:00:42,405 You started doing something completely different, right? 7 00:00:42,405 --> 00:00:42,495 And. 8 00:00:43,020 --> 00:00:43,980 Changed at 50. 9 00:00:44,190 --> 00:00:50,280 I did, but actually my whole business career came out of a period of adversity, you know, looking back on it. 10 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:55,170 And it shaped actually a lot of the questions that I ask now when I'm consulting with, with, with, with businesses. 11 00:00:55,170 --> 00:01:01,590 Cuz what happened was Jan was pregnant, unfortunately, we, we lost our baby, but then she contracted cancer as well. 12 00:01:01,830 --> 00:01:02,160 Oh my God. 13 00:01:02,260 --> 00:01:03,600 So she, yeah. 14 00:01:03,605 --> 00:01:07,800 So she had to go through some very heavy chemotherapy. 15 00:01:08,714 --> 00:01:11,024 Also at the same time, you know, my grandma died. 16 00:01:11,054 --> 00:01:15,645 I mean, it was, it was, it was like she was just pouring it, you know, one thing on, on top of another. 17 00:01:16,425 --> 00:01:18,375 But then I went to work on the Monday. 18 00:01:19,290 --> 00:01:21,630 And I was working for an American company at the time. 19 00:01:22,020 --> 00:01:35,430 You know, Jan had gone through sort of three very heavy levels of chemotherapy and I remember, you know, I remember her sitting in the bath and I just came and looked at her and she just handed me a razor and just went and just shaved my hair. 20 00:01:35,435 --> 00:01:35,490 Yeah. 21 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:37,210 You know, cuz it was all, you know, falling out. 22 00:01:37,210 --> 00:01:39,510 It was really, it was a really difficult time. 23 00:01:40,420 --> 00:01:46,510 And as she was sort of going through all this, I went, I went to, to work to find that the office was locked. 24 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:54,580 And, um, I've managed to get into the building and then the M UK MD at the time said, oh, mark, I need to have a work with you. 25 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,830 I said, oh, yeah, what's, what's happened? 26 00:01:56,830 --> 00:02:03,850 He said, um, he said, basically we got a call on Friday from the American parents saying they're shutting the uk. 27 00:02:04,230 --> 00:02:07,380 So basically we don't, you know, we, there's no work. 28 00:02:07,380 --> 00:02:12,090 Now we've, we've, they closed the business and of course the only thing I was thinking about was. 29 00:02:12,555 --> 00:02:14,685 How am I gonna tell Jan I've lost my job? 30 00:02:14,954 --> 00:02:17,204 You know, in the middle of all of this. 31 00:02:17,595 --> 00:02:20,505 What was the job at the time you were I was in finance and leasing. 32 00:02:20,505 --> 00:02:26,535 Finance and yeah, I was in finance and leasing, so I went, well there's, there's no way I can go and tell her I've lost, I've lost my job. 33 00:02:26,540 --> 00:02:28,755 So I thought, right, okay. 34 00:02:29,355 --> 00:02:30,075 I sorted out. 35 00:02:30,075 --> 00:02:35,025 I had to, we had to give the car back all sorts of, cuz they had accompanied cars, which was presumably they had to. 36 00:02:35,050 --> 00:02:38,740 Pay your redundancy or So very little, because I'd only been headhunted. 37 00:02:38,745 --> 00:02:39,160 Oh, okay. 38 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,010 Into that role, a, a matter of a few months before. 39 00:02:42,310 --> 00:02:42,790 All right. 40 00:02:42,790 --> 00:02:45,880 So it was, it, it was a real perfect storm. 41 00:02:46,420 --> 00:02:50,290 So I remember I went back home and I just, I thought, right, I'll walk through the door. 42 00:02:50,290 --> 00:03:00,130 I only, I lived in a little cottage, walked through the door and through my briefcase on the safe and said, right Jen, I, I can't, there's no way I can go to work and with all this going on, so I'm gonna start my own business. 43 00:03:00,334 --> 00:03:03,315 Noise, you know, because it was, and I said, don't wait. 44 00:03:03,315 --> 00:03:04,245 You don't have to worry. 45 00:03:04,245 --> 00:03:04,575 Honestly. 46 00:03:04,575 --> 00:03:05,475 It's all fine. 47 00:03:05,505 --> 00:03:07,364 We got, we got plenty of clients. 48 00:03:07,394 --> 00:03:09,674 It's, it, it, it, you know, we, we'll work it out. 49 00:03:10,454 --> 00:03:17,655 And I remember the, the following day I had to Jan drive back to, had to drive Jan back to the hospital for another whole load of, of, of chemo. 50 00:03:17,915 --> 00:03:21,614 Then I had to drive, um, the car back to the office. 51 00:03:21,614 --> 00:03:24,045 Had to give that back and then get a Lyft back home. 52 00:03:24,885 --> 00:03:28,575 And I was, I was at my desk, uh, at a little desk. 53 00:03:28,665 --> 00:03:31,244 It was actually my dad's from when he, from, from when he was a child. 54 00:03:31,244 --> 00:03:34,875 But I get this little desk and, um, we had no mobile phones. 55 00:03:34,875 --> 00:03:36,165 But you probably wouldn't remember. 56 00:03:36,195 --> 00:03:36,665 You wouldn't. 57 00:03:36,704 --> 00:03:37,144 I would know. 58 00:03:37,144 --> 00:03:37,545 Would you? 59 00:03:37,924 --> 00:03:38,144 Yes. 60 00:03:38,255 --> 00:03:38,545 Okay. 61 00:03:38,945 --> 00:03:42,345 I maybe older than I look, so I was, and I sat down and I. 62 00:03:42,555 --> 00:03:51,045 I sat down at this desk and literally rang the bank and just basically explained what had happened and could I keep, you know, that I was having a bit of, and I thought, be honest with them. 63 00:03:51,045 --> 00:03:52,095 And they said, no, that's fine. 64 00:03:52,100 --> 00:03:53,205 Thanks for letting us know. 65 00:03:53,205 --> 00:03:55,980 And, and then, About 11 o'clock. 66 00:03:55,980 --> 00:04:09,750 In 11 o'clock that morning, the phone rang and it was the finance director of a printing company who was one of my clients in, in, in, he was in Welling Garden City at the time, and he said, oh, Mike said, I'm really, really sorry to ring you at home. 67 00:04:10,335 --> 00:04:11,745 I said, no, that's okay, Chris. 68 00:04:11,745 --> 00:04:12,705 Hey, no problem. 69 00:04:12,705 --> 00:04:13,845 Yeah, it's, it's, it's fine. 70 00:04:13,845 --> 00:04:14,265 It's fine. 71 00:04:14,415 --> 00:04:15,495 I said, what's, what's the amount? 72 00:04:15,495 --> 00:04:19,214 He said, well, look, I, I persuaded your office to give me your home number. 73 00:04:19,635 --> 00:04:21,195 He said, we've got a problem. 74 00:04:21,765 --> 00:04:22,785 And I said, well, what is it? 75 00:04:22,785 --> 00:04:27,495 He said, well, you know, that big printing press, and these were big, big heiberg press. 76 00:04:28,155 --> 00:04:30,345 He said, we've got a, we've got a serious problem. 77 00:04:30,345 --> 00:04:35,685 He said, if we can't renegotiate the lease on this Heidelberg press, we, the, the business is going under. 78 00:04:35,685 --> 00:04:35,775 Oh, wow. 79 00:04:36,599 --> 00:04:38,729 And so I said, oh, right, okay. 80 00:04:38,729 --> 00:04:45,150 He said, could you come and negotiate, you know, help us negotiate cause you understand that, you know, leasing arrangements. 81 00:04:45,599 --> 00:04:46,619 I said, of course Chris. 82 00:04:46,619 --> 00:04:50,789 He said, he said, and he said, um, when would you be able to come and, and see us? 83 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,035 I just went, I remember going, Hang on, I'll just check. 84 00:04:54,305 --> 00:04:57,335 There's nothing in my diary for the rest of my life at this point. 85 00:04:57,455 --> 00:04:57,755 You know? 86 00:04:57,755 --> 00:04:58,805 I said, I'll just check. 87 00:04:59,075 --> 00:05:01,145 And he said, well, we can get them in on Wednesday. 88 00:05:01,145 --> 00:05:02,105 I said, that's fine. 89 00:05:02,435 --> 00:05:06,005 And then he said to me, oh, how much would you, would you, would you charge? 90 00:05:06,005 --> 00:05:07,665 And this was back in, in 90. 91 00:05:08,775 --> 00:05:10,395 92, 93. 92 00:05:11,025 --> 00:05:13,875 And I said, I didn't, I didn't, I just didn't know, you know? 93 00:05:13,965 --> 00:05:15,974 And he said, would a hundred pound be alright? 94 00:05:16,065 --> 00:05:17,986 And he, I said, yeah, yeah. 95 00:05:18,645 --> 00:05:20,265 An afternoon, you know, a couple of hours. 96 00:05:20,265 --> 00:05:21,075 Well, yeah, yeah, as well. 97 00:05:21,075 --> 00:05:21,825 I said, yeah. 98 00:05:21,825 --> 00:05:24,555 I said For you, Chris, I'll, I'll do it for a hundred pounds. 99 00:05:24,825 --> 00:05:28,185 And creed, we, I had no transport. 100 00:05:28,185 --> 00:05:30,435 The only thing we had was this old moped. 101 00:05:30,565 --> 00:05:39,265 That Jan used to ride, so I remember getting my suit on, getting waterproofs on, strapping my briefcase on the back of this old moped, right? 102 00:05:40,140 --> 00:05:44,670 Passing down to Welling Garden City, parking it in the, in in this underpass. 103 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:45,030 Right. 104 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:47,850 Getting my waterproofs off, smarting myself up. 105 00:05:48,180 --> 00:05:56,940 I went in and basically renegotiated this lease and I remember the last thing I was being as, as I walked out, Chris said, come back mate. 106 00:05:57,030 --> 00:05:58,200 He said, said What? 107 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:58,382 What is it? 108 00:05:58,387 --> 00:06:02,160 He said, you've just saved everybody's jobs in this building. 109 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:02,700 Oh wow. 110 00:06:02,730 --> 00:06:03,030 Right. 111 00:06:03,035 --> 00:06:05,640 And I went, Oh, okay. 112 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,880 And I half my hundred pounds and then call it a thousand pounds. 113 00:06:08,885 --> 00:06:09,010 Yeah. 114 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:11,130 Well, I shoulda, I'm quite tempted. 115 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,049 Last story of our house. 116 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:13,490 Yeah. 117 00:06:13,495 --> 00:06:14,010 Yeah. 118 00:06:14,010 --> 00:06:19,200 And, and then, and I, and I, I thought just when I thought I wasn't worth anything, someone was telling me I was worth a hundred pounds. 119 00:06:19,205 --> 00:06:19,770 Half a day. 120 00:06:19,770 --> 00:06:21,690 That's, that's 200 pound for a day. 121 00:06:21,690 --> 00:06:23,010 That's a thousand pound for a week. 122 00:06:23,330 --> 00:06:23,690 Do you know what? 123 00:06:23,690 --> 00:06:25,010 I can make this work. 124 00:06:25,310 --> 00:06:31,070 And when some job offers started coming in, I said, no, I'm going to, I'm going to keep running my own consultants. 125 00:06:31,070 --> 00:06:32,900 You start and start and start my own business. 126 00:06:33,620 --> 00:06:45,710 And so I remember the reason I was able to do that, the reason I walked in and was able to start my own business is because I genuinely wasn't scared, because the only thing that mattered to me was, was Jan gonna get better? 127 00:06:46,055 --> 00:06:48,185 I really didn't care about my job. 128 00:06:48,245 --> 00:06:51,094 It may, it was, it became so insignificant. 129 00:06:51,155 --> 00:06:51,575 Yeah. 130 00:06:51,665 --> 00:06:57,275 And so quite often, you know, ask people when they, when we're consulting them, I said, well, what would you do if you weren't scared? 131 00:06:57,275 --> 00:06:58,325 And they go, well, I'm not scared. 132 00:06:58,505 --> 00:06:59,915 Oh, you are scared of something. 133 00:07:00,065 --> 00:07:01,435 If there were no consequences. 134 00:07:02,745 --> 00:07:05,535 To taking this decision, what would you do? 135 00:07:05,835 --> 00:07:08,775 And it really, again, you know, it opens up the conversation. 136 00:07:08,775 --> 00:07:19,395 So that's sort of how I got to on this journey to sort of running businesses and then that morphed into, you know, various other financial things. 137 00:07:19,395 --> 00:07:24,195 And then, and then going back to university to really hone down on the psychology side of it. 138 00:07:25,305 --> 00:07:26,835 What do you think your long-term girl is? 139 00:07:27,489 --> 00:07:28,320 I, I don't have one. 140 00:07:28,590 --> 00:07:29,609 No long-term girl. 141 00:07:29,789 --> 00:07:32,400 A guy who's asked people about that very question. 142 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:33,150 And you don't have one? 143 00:07:33,210 --> 00:07:33,450 Well, no. 144 00:07:33,450 --> 00:07:35,460 Cause I don't ask about their long-term goals. 145 00:07:35,465 --> 00:07:36,659 That's the point I ask. 146 00:07:36,659 --> 00:07:38,090 I have a narrative and a vision. 147 00:07:38,090 --> 00:07:38,729 You've not been playing. 148 00:07:38,729 --> 00:07:39,250 Don't, yeah. 149 00:07:39,359 --> 00:07:39,650 Okay. 150 00:07:39,810 --> 00:07:40,979 You've gotta leave to something. 151 00:07:40,984 --> 00:07:42,510 But isn't that a long-term girl? 152 00:07:42,570 --> 00:07:42,810 No. 153 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:43,950 I mean, it's a long term. 154 00:07:43,955 --> 00:07:44,130 It's a purpose. 155 00:07:44,309 --> 00:07:45,489 It's a name, it's a purpose. 156 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:46,109 Yeah. 157 00:07:46,109 --> 00:07:50,330 So my, my in a while, so if I get up tomorrow and I am. 158 00:07:50,859 --> 00:07:54,190 Adding value to, to the clients that I deal with. 159 00:07:54,190 --> 00:08:01,450 If I'm, you know, if I'm making a difference in that small way and I'm doing that every day, for me, that is what I enjoy doing. 160 00:08:01,719 --> 00:08:05,289 And maybe it might be a result of maturity or, or getting old. 161 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:11,349 In other words, cuz probably if you'd asked me that question 10 years ago, I'd probably had a whole list of stuff. 162 00:08:11,559 --> 00:08:11,799 Yeah. 163 00:08:11,830 --> 00:08:13,000 But actually I'm going, do you know what? 164 00:08:13,030 --> 00:08:17,679 It's every day adding value and enjoying the work I'm involved in. 165 00:08:18,295 --> 00:08:21,445 That's, to me, that's got a real sense of purpose. 166 00:08:22,645 --> 00:08:25,555 What's the most misunderstood thing about what you do? 167 00:08:25,825 --> 00:08:29,425 Everybody thinks I'm a clinical psychologist and that I'm gonna analyze them. 168 00:08:29,905 --> 00:08:39,955 So it is, you know, that you sort of get this sense that you, oh, that might, that behavioral chaps here and you sort of think, you know, they're gonna, you're gonna go upstairs and ask them to, she have a couch that you take with you? 169 00:08:40,255 --> 00:08:40,434 Yeah. 170 00:08:40,615 --> 00:08:42,265 Lauren is couch and tell me about your mother. 171 00:08:42,265 --> 00:08:42,534 You know? 172 00:08:42,534 --> 00:08:45,555 No, that is not what we, you should have one of those pocket watches on a train. 173 00:08:46,045 --> 00:08:46,194 Too. 174 00:08:46,405 --> 00:08:47,844 So it's like, you know, hypnotized. 175 00:08:47,844 --> 00:08:48,844 They're both high. 176 00:08:49,005 --> 00:08:49,285 I know. 177 00:08:49,375 --> 00:08:49,615 Yeah. 178 00:08:49,795 --> 00:08:50,094 Both. 179 00:08:50,094 --> 00:08:50,485 High. 180 00:08:51,805 --> 00:08:56,604 Out of all of these decisions where you ended up, what's been your biggest cockup, your biggest failure, do you think? 181 00:08:56,755 --> 00:09:00,655 Yeah, I mean, most of the failures have been intelligent ones, what we call inter so. 182 00:09:00,655 --> 00:09:02,724 So they are the ones that you learn from. 183 00:09:02,729 --> 00:09:03,805 In other words, they were. 184 00:09:04,780 --> 00:09:07,900 You know, we, there, it was a new opportunity we had. 185 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:08,530 Oh. 186 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:11,170 I had to act to see if it would work or not. 187 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,340 So it was well hypothesized and I didn't bet the whole sort of farm on it. 188 00:09:15,340 --> 00:09:15,430 Mm-hmm. 189 00:09:15,870 --> 00:09:22,450 But actually when we sold the business or merged the business into a, into a, a consolidator that was. 190 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,520 Betting the farm on it, and it didn't work out too well, basically into a consolidator. 191 00:09:27,670 --> 00:09:27,850 Yeah. 192 00:09:27,850 --> 00:09:33,280 So they were buying, or, or they were merging a lot of financials and, and you, you joined all of that, did you? 193 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:33,460 Or? 194 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,860 I, I joined when it was, it was, it was many years ago. 195 00:09:35,860 --> 00:09:39,680 And we be, we, we basically never, we ended up ne not getting paid and um, oh wow. 196 00:09:40,150 --> 00:09:57,395 Um, but you know, even then, You know, and it was a lot of money, but I remember when I was told that, um, we weren't gonna get paid, and you and I and I drove home, you know, to my house in, you know, walked, walked into my house when my, my wife's there, my two daughters are there, you know, we've got a lovely home. 197 00:09:58,055 --> 00:10:03,155 I then, um, put some kit on on and went, did a coaching, coaching session with some lads. 198 00:10:03,155 --> 00:10:05,734 Did a kicking session with some guys at, at, at the rugby club. 199 00:10:06,334 --> 00:10:12,245 And I was walking back and I was just thinking, well, if I'd had the money in the bank today or not, what would I have done differently today? 200 00:10:12,425 --> 00:10:12,935 Tonight? 201 00:10:12,964 --> 00:10:15,005 And I was looking around, go, do you know I wouldn't have done anything. 202 00:10:15,010 --> 00:10:15,756 I would still have done this. 203 00:10:15,805 --> 00:10:16,094 Yeah. 204 00:10:16,435 --> 00:10:36,750 And so, and then actually, Some of the people I've met, I, I, I've, you know, one of my main colleagues I'd fortunate enough to work with, you know, some, some really bright people and also some people that are just wonderful to work with, and I met some of them on that part of the journey, so I wouldn't want them to be out of my life. 205 00:10:37,855 --> 00:10:39,925 What's your passion outside of business? 206 00:10:40,165 --> 00:10:40,825 Put them in order. 207 00:10:40,825 --> 00:10:41,635 Put them in order. 208 00:10:41,635 --> 00:10:43,465 You seem to have a few, what's number one? 209 00:10:43,525 --> 00:10:44,605 Number one's the cycling. 210 00:10:44,755 --> 00:10:45,865 No, what's the cycling? 211 00:10:46,225 --> 00:10:47,155 Ah, is it the coaching? 212 00:10:47,245 --> 00:10:47,935 Is it the rugby? 213 00:10:48,025 --> 00:10:48,565 The rugby. 214 00:10:48,745 --> 00:10:51,835 My family and friends obviously, but it's travel, sport and music. 215 00:10:51,895 --> 00:10:52,555 Put them in what? 216 00:10:52,975 --> 00:10:53,245 Travel. 217 00:10:53,245 --> 00:10:53,515 Sport. 218 00:10:53,635 --> 00:10:53,815 Music. 219 00:10:53,885 --> 00:10:54,175 Yeah. 220 00:10:54,180 --> 00:10:54,625 Yeah. 221 00:10:54,630 --> 00:10:56,395 I mean it's, it's all the good stuff. 222 00:10:56,425 --> 00:10:56,635 Yeah. 223 00:10:57,355 --> 00:11:00,985 Do you, um, try and achieve all three at once? 224 00:11:01,310 --> 00:11:03,010 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 225 00:11:03,589 --> 00:11:05,780 You know, like, yeah, go on a holiday. 226 00:11:05,780 --> 00:11:10,790 Play the guitar that involves sports, coaching, rugby on a holiday. 227 00:11:10,819 --> 00:11:13,699 Every year I try and go somewhere. 228 00:11:13,819 --> 00:11:17,300 I've never been with people, I've never met with my bike. 229 00:11:17,730 --> 00:11:19,319 Every year I try and do that. 230 00:11:19,350 --> 00:11:20,470 Now, give you an example on your own. 231 00:11:20,470 --> 00:11:21,600 You just go off on, yeah. 232 00:11:21,750 --> 00:11:24,240 Last year I went to, uh, central America. 233 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:28,140 I went to, I wanted to ride between, um, between Mexico and Nicaragua. 234 00:11:28,590 --> 00:11:28,949 Fuck off. 235 00:11:29,010 --> 00:11:32,370 And I was with, I and I, I just happened to meet on this trip. 236 00:11:32,675 --> 00:11:38,975 Uh, an American, um, human rights lawyer who lived in Guatemala, who'd lived in Guatemala for, for free. 237 00:11:38,975 --> 00:11:39,065 Ye. 238 00:11:39,335 --> 00:11:47,225 He then lived in Nashville, and as we were heading for, for the Guatemala border, basically the Narcos took over the road. 239 00:11:47,465 --> 00:11:47,975 Okay. 240 00:11:48,305 --> 00:11:59,795 And we were basically left with a choice of either carrying on and trying to get into Guatemala, just cycling faster and risking kidnap, or going round it, and basically spending four days. 241 00:11:59,855 --> 00:12:02,465 Going up the hard shoulder of a, the motorway. 242 00:12:03,095 --> 00:12:13,235 And he said, uh, you know, he's interesting because going back 10 years old and gone, no, I am gonna get to Nicaragua, but to mix all this up, have you ever done all these things at once? 243 00:12:13,235 --> 00:12:17,556 He said, well, why don't you just come back to mine in Nashville and spent three weeks? 244 00:12:18,845 --> 00:12:20,055 So I went too. 245 00:12:20,055 --> 00:12:20,695 Right, baby. 246 00:12:22,625 --> 00:12:28,055 And then since then I've been lying to the wife telling you I'm going to Nicaragua, but I go to Vegas. 247 00:12:29,245 --> 00:12:31,165 What's the worst advice you've ever been given? 248 00:12:31,495 --> 00:12:32,605 So, we got an issue. 249 00:12:32,635 --> 00:12:33,985 We had an issue in our family. 250 00:12:34,105 --> 00:12:43,915 It was causing my parents a, you know, a bit of concern and I tried everything with the, with this person to try and to try and solve it, um, and try and sort it out. 251 00:12:43,915 --> 00:12:46,025 And someone advised me, well, you've tried everything else. 252 00:12:46,675 --> 00:12:47,635 Try getting angry. 253 00:12:48,610 --> 00:12:50,260 So I thought, oh, I'll give it a go. 254 00:12:50,260 --> 00:12:51,490 It was a worse thing. 255 00:12:51,490 --> 00:12:53,099 I could have done it just, it just had anger. 256 00:12:53,099 --> 00:12:57,729 That never helps it, it just did not, it made the problem a lot worse. 257 00:12:57,735 --> 00:12:57,819 Mm-hmm. 258 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,760 And I really regret, you know, that was just advice. 259 00:13:00,819 --> 00:13:00,969 Yeah. 260 00:13:00,974 --> 00:13:01,990 It was poor advice. 261 00:13:02,229 --> 00:13:04,209 I mean, at the time I was thinking, well, I've tried everything else. 262 00:13:04,209 --> 00:13:05,319 It does sort of make sense. 263 00:13:05,319 --> 00:13:07,510 It might ever, you know, but it did, didn't it didn't. 264 00:13:07,510 --> 00:13:07,689 It didn't. 265 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:11,650 Business without bullshit is brought to you by Ari Clark. 266 00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:15,430 Straight talking financial and legal advice since 1935. 267 00:13:15,875 --> 00:13:18,395 You can find us@oriclamp.com. 268 00:13:19,295 --> 00:13:21,765 What's the best bit of advice being given? 269 00:13:21,915 --> 00:13:22,844 Don't eat yellow snow. 270 00:13:23,925 --> 00:13:25,115 Don't eat yellow snow. 271 00:13:25,115 --> 00:13:25,395 Yeah. 272 00:13:25,555 --> 00:13:26,515 What is yellow snow? 273 00:13:27,015 --> 00:13:28,036 Oh, come on now. 274 00:13:28,365 --> 00:13:30,885 Was it, I don't know, yellow snow? 275 00:13:31,094 --> 00:13:32,355 Somebody's peed on the snow. 276 00:13:32,355 --> 00:13:33,255 Probably don't know. 277 00:13:33,255 --> 00:13:33,584 Oh, right. 278 00:13:33,645 --> 00:13:33,855 Okay. 279 00:13:33,855 --> 00:13:35,535 Well, it could be any reason, couldn't it? 280 00:13:35,540 --> 00:13:37,314 But it might be slang for something, you know? 281 00:13:37,435 --> 00:13:37,755 I don't know. 282 00:13:37,755 --> 00:13:44,594 Eh, so one of our, we lost a couple of our rugby mates from Leukemia and one of them was, was a really close friend. 283 00:13:44,625 --> 00:13:48,314 We, we lost 'em both in the same season, which was, and I was really struggling. 284 00:13:48,860 --> 00:13:49,790 With dealing with it. 285 00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:59,120 I mean, some months after an, a mate of mine said to me, he said, he said, well, he did, he did a marathon in, in, in aid of leukemia. 286 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:03,770 He said That really helped him, you know, he said, so as long as you honestly put, you go and do something. 287 00:14:04,574 --> 00:14:08,595 In, in Mickey's memory and it, and, you know, you'll feel, you'll feel a lot better. 288 00:14:08,595 --> 00:14:21,735 And I, I still wasn't really sure what to do and they, I was speaking at an investment conference in, in Scotland, um, and it was a round of a round of speaking events and I tag one of those really terrible. 289 00:14:21,944 --> 00:14:28,185 Ryan Air flights, you know, one of those ones were almost, you know, an oxygen mass will fall from your head. 290 00:14:28,395 --> 00:14:28,875 Oh my God. 291 00:14:28,875 --> 00:14:29,055 Yeah. 292 00:14:29,055 --> 00:14:33,135 I've had one in, then in my last, please insert one pound into the slot to release the oxygen. 293 00:14:33,135 --> 00:14:34,875 You know, Ryan Air are looking for Yeah. 294 00:14:34,875 --> 00:14:36,314 Maximum profit every penny. 295 00:14:37,635 --> 00:14:44,625 But anyway, I, I basically got, uh, we were having dinner that evening and I said, oh, I had such a bad flight up here. 296 00:14:44,625 --> 00:14:46,335 I said, honestly, I've just bought a bike. 297 00:14:46,335 --> 00:14:50,205 Said I'd rather ride up here next time than get a flight. 298 00:14:51,375 --> 00:14:53,775 So he said, oh, that'd be interesting. 299 00:14:53,775 --> 00:14:55,755 Anyway, a couple of bottles of pinot later. 300 00:14:55,755 --> 00:14:58,515 I said, you know what you could do, you know, for your mate. 301 00:14:58,755 --> 00:15:02,385 He said, in memory, your mate, you could ride between all these investment events. 302 00:15:03,195 --> 00:15:05,925 And I went, yeah, cook can, let's have another bottle of beer, you know? 303 00:15:05,925 --> 00:15:06,225 Yeah. 304 00:15:06,225 --> 00:15:09,705 You know, it's amazing what you agree to when you've had, you know, you've had too much to drink. 305 00:15:10,515 --> 00:15:13,065 And so I said, you know, and I said, I only just bought this bike. 306 00:15:13,425 --> 00:15:18,165 And, um, I remember go going to bed and wa wake up the next morning going on. 307 00:15:18,255 --> 00:15:19,875 No one will remember that conversation. 308 00:15:20,085 --> 00:15:22,935 And the first call I got was from the guy who organized all the events. 309 00:15:22,935 --> 00:15:24,945 He said, we've been onto the business that sponsors it. 310 00:15:24,945 --> 00:15:27,255 He said, we're in, we got it onto the agenda this morning. 311 00:15:27,585 --> 00:15:29,745 All right, you can arrive between all the events. 312 00:15:29,780 --> 00:15:30,890 Next some. 313 00:15:30,890 --> 00:15:32,300 I said, well, how far is it? 314 00:15:32,569 --> 00:15:35,990 His mate have been up all night on aa, on an AA roadmap thing. 315 00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:38,699 He, he says, it's about a thousand miles of a thousand miles. 316 00:15:39,380 --> 00:15:42,890 I said, you, I said, I've only just bought a bike. 317 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,280 And he said, and so sort, I basically had to. 318 00:15:46,530 --> 00:15:47,191 Sort of getting involved. 319 00:15:47,196 --> 00:15:50,340 You bet you'd never, like, you, you knew how to ride a bike, but you'd just bought a bike. 320 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:50,970 No, just, no. 321 00:15:50,970 --> 00:15:54,600 I I, I'd never really, I, I knew how to ride a bike like any kid would. 322 00:15:54,630 --> 00:15:54,990 Yeah. 323 00:15:54,990 --> 00:15:59,190 But, but this was our post rugby sport to keep us, you know, keep us a little bit fed. 324 00:15:59,790 --> 00:16:00,450 So, anyway. 325 00:16:00,945 --> 00:16:02,715 We did the Ride for Life. 326 00:16:03,075 --> 00:16:04,605 Um, it raised about 50 grand. 327 00:16:04,605 --> 00:16:06,675 So it was, it was, it was, it was a good, it was good event. 328 00:16:07,425 --> 00:16:10,305 And then there was thinking that's where this would all end. 329 00:16:10,455 --> 00:16:10,905 Okay. 330 00:16:11,235 --> 00:16:14,745 And then a couple of weeks later, I get a phone call from Mate Mine. 331 00:16:14,745 --> 00:16:16,275 He says, um, this is all busy. 332 00:16:16,275 --> 00:16:24,195 He said, um, busy and I work for, said they're, they're starting, um, they're starting an amateur version of the Tour de France. 333 00:16:24,585 --> 00:16:26,340 And I went, Right. 334 00:16:26,460 --> 00:16:28,770 He said, well, they're looking, they're looking for riders. 335 00:16:28,980 --> 00:16:30,270 I said, right, good. 336 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:31,010 What? 337 00:16:31,230 --> 00:16:32,010 Lucky then what? 338 00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:34,770 He said, well, you've just done this Ride for Life Round Britain. 339 00:16:34,770 --> 00:16:36,930 He said, we thought you'd like to get involved. 340 00:16:36,930 --> 00:16:38,069 I said, what? 341 00:16:38,250 --> 00:16:38,640 Why? 342 00:16:39,180 --> 00:16:40,620 What they mean? 343 00:16:40,620 --> 00:16:41,880 The whole of the tour of France. 344 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,610 It's just we can do an all 21 stages. 345 00:16:44,335 --> 00:16:54,385 One week before the professionals, and I remember him, I remember him trying to sell it to me cuz he was, he was going, this is the hundredth anniversary of going up the tolet, this mountain. 346 00:16:54,625 --> 00:16:57,115 So he said this year it's got the circle of death in it. 347 00:16:57,745 --> 00:16:59,925 So I said, he's got the circle of death in it. 348 00:17:00,955 --> 00:17:02,095 Why didn't you say Armin? 349 00:17:02,345 --> 00:17:04,105 What's the circle of death? 350 00:17:04,494 --> 00:17:05,214 And it's like these. 351 00:17:05,275 --> 00:17:06,865 Four mountains in a row. 352 00:17:06,865 --> 00:17:07,435 And I said, oh great. 353 00:17:07,435 --> 00:17:09,895 And he said, and it's Eddie Merck's birthday. 354 00:17:09,895 --> 00:17:11,485 And I knew he was a famous scientist. 355 00:17:11,485 --> 00:17:16,225 He said, and so they're gonna start, they're gonna stop this year by riding on the cobbles. 356 00:17:16,225 --> 00:17:18,595 I said, why would ride bike? 357 00:17:20,605 --> 00:17:23,275 And then, but then what he said, he said, look busy. 358 00:17:23,275 --> 00:17:32,255 He said, Really want to get this off the ground is that the charity is a grant giving charity that supports the hardest to reach kids through sports and arts projects. 359 00:17:32,585 --> 00:17:37,595 And he knew he got me because of the coaching we'd done and all the things that we'd been involved in. 360 00:17:38,255 --> 00:17:43,275 So then I started looking, looking at the Tour de France and thinking, right, there's, there's. 361 00:17:43,620 --> 00:17:45,540 There's different ways of approaching this. 362 00:17:45,540 --> 00:17:52,409 You can either, you can either treat it as one 3,600 kilometer ride, or actually 82 hour rides. 363 00:17:52,889 --> 00:17:54,629 And if you, you will complete it. 364 00:17:54,629 --> 00:17:58,530 If you can do all those, all 82 hour, 82 hour rides. 365 00:17:58,530 --> 00:18:07,590 So it's 21 stages, but you are splitting it up, you know, you're still doing the stage in the same day as the pros, but you obviously you're taking it, taking a lot longer to do it. 366 00:18:08,129 --> 00:18:11,399 And so basic 12 of us were on the start line. 367 00:18:12,060 --> 00:18:21,149 And when it came to, I thought I knew about teams, but at the end of that first stage, I was in the strongest team I'd ever been in, or I'd never met these people before. 368 00:18:21,149 --> 00:18:26,460 But straight away we all knew what we wanted to achieve and we all realized we weren't gonna be able to do it on our own. 369 00:18:26,610 --> 00:18:27,930 We had to work together. 370 00:18:27,935 --> 00:18:27,990 Yeah. 371 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:28,290 Right. 372 00:18:28,290 --> 00:18:28,710 To do it. 373 00:18:28,930 --> 00:18:38,340 And, and we launched the first amateur version of the Tour de France, which I, which now raises about 350,000 pounds a year and is run. 374 00:18:38,365 --> 00:18:39,535 Every single year. 375 00:18:39,655 --> 00:18:39,955 Wow. 376 00:18:39,985 --> 00:19:02,125 So, I mean, so that one piece of advice get on your bike, the effect that, you know, ride something in memory of your, your friend has just led to this incredible series of events that, that, that just keep going, reach out and touch the universe and it might touch your back, you know, what advice, uh, would've you given a younger self? 377 00:19:02,815 --> 00:19:06,025 I think it would've just, it would've just been, it'll be okay. 378 00:19:07,010 --> 00:19:10,935 You know, it'll don't, don't get so worried about what people think. 379 00:19:10,935 --> 00:19:11,294 Don't worry. 380 00:19:11,324 --> 00:19:12,705 It's going to be fine. 381 00:19:13,245 --> 00:19:16,814 I think it would be, it would be something as, as, as simple as that. 382 00:19:17,205 --> 00:19:25,815 You know, we, we worry about the wrong things when we, um, don't we, have you got any sort of recommendations of things we should be reading or watching or listening to? 383 00:19:26,205 --> 00:19:26,955 Oh my goodness. 384 00:19:27,044 --> 00:19:29,400 Um, Music. 385 00:19:29,910 --> 00:19:30,270 Yeah. 386 00:19:30,540 --> 00:19:31,560 What's your music ones? 387 00:19:32,130 --> 00:19:33,210 Anything by Led Zeppelins. 388 00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:33,900 Oh man. 389 00:19:33,930 --> 00:19:34,530 The greatest Back. 390 00:19:34,530 --> 00:19:35,310 Yeah. 391 00:19:35,310 --> 00:19:36,180 Unbelievable. 392 00:19:36,180 --> 00:19:36,480 Yeah. 393 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:36,481 Yeah. 394 00:19:36,486 --> 00:19:38,460 I mean, I, I think no one played rock like them. 395 00:19:38,460 --> 00:19:38,910 Never. 396 00:19:38,970 --> 00:19:40,500 No, it's, it's just another level. 397 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,780 They're the Beatles of, of rock in a way. 398 00:19:42,785 --> 00:19:46,620 You know, it's like I was at, um, Taylor Hawkins memorial gigs. 399 00:19:46,620 --> 00:19:50,040 They're the Fux fighters, you know, is probably the nearest current. 400 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,510 Was, I think they wouldn't even think it was the same ballpark, but I don't really listen to them. 401 00:19:54,510 --> 00:19:54,720 Yeah. 402 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,660 I they, they're, they're fantastic as, as well. 403 00:19:57,790 --> 00:20:00,390 I, I have to admit, I have no idea what either of you're talking about. 404 00:20:00,540 --> 00:20:00,870 Right. 405 00:20:01,050 --> 00:20:09,405 You've heard of LED Zippel led I've heard of them, but I couldn't, if you told me to name a song, Most famous, I mean, their songs all 10 minutes long. 406 00:20:09,405 --> 00:20:11,745 Stairway to Heaven is their most famous, but Okay. 407 00:20:12,405 --> 00:20:14,655 Anyway, can you give me a favorite lens song? 408 00:20:14,655 --> 00:20:16,334 What's the Kashmir Kashmir? 409 00:20:16,425 --> 00:20:16,754 Mm-hmm. 410 00:20:16,935 --> 00:20:17,534 That's a good one. 411 00:20:17,594 --> 00:20:17,985 Yeah. 412 00:20:18,254 --> 00:20:18,465 Yeah. 413 00:20:18,465 --> 00:20:31,905 In fact, my daughter and I, because I go to gigs with my younger daughter and we have actually got the top 100 guitar riffs of all time, and the best Christmas present I've ever had is where she managed to get little photos and cut out photos of. 414 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:38,320 Every single album cover and create a poster of the top 100 guitar riffs that we'd created of all time. 415 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:38,740 Oh, nice. 416 00:20:38,745 --> 00:20:38,860 Nice. 417 00:20:38,980 --> 00:20:39,910 That was really cool. 418 00:20:39,970 --> 00:20:44,590 One film I think everyone should watch is Marvelous, which actually is a bit, is a, is a film. 419 00:20:44,830 --> 00:20:47,660 It's about the Sheffield United Kit Manager. 420 00:20:48,615 --> 00:20:50,715 And it is the most uplifting film. 421 00:20:50,715 --> 00:20:54,645 And not, not everybody, not a lot of people have seen, I love Christopher Nolan films. 422 00:20:54,645 --> 00:20:56,625 I love Monty Python is a Christian Nolan film. 423 00:20:56,625 --> 00:21:01,445 No, that isn't, no, but, but I would imagine that you get that resp, have you watched Ted Lasso? 424 00:21:01,795 --> 00:21:03,675 Yeah, I was supposed to say Sounds a bit Ted Lasso. 425 00:21:04,065 --> 00:21:06,735 He is a sort of, you know, a likable guy or something, you know. 426 00:21:08,129 --> 00:21:08,520 No. 427 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:09,300 Oh. 428 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,830 I think it's just, it's, it's, it's a remarkable film. 429 00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:15,260 Toby Jones plays, plays. 430 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:15,900 Oh, Toby Jones. 431 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:16,100 Yeah. 432 00:21:16,250 --> 00:21:17,220 Toby Jones everywhere. 433 00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:19,620 I know, I know who, once you recognize it, you're like, fuck. 434 00:21:19,620 --> 00:21:21,810 He's this English guy in every America film. 435 00:21:21,815 --> 00:21:26,740 Like every, everybody I've told go and watch this film have texted me after they've seen it. 436 00:21:27,239 --> 00:21:27,479 Oh, wow. 437 00:21:27,479 --> 00:21:27,840 I'm gone. 438 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:28,469 I'm gone. 439 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,290 Oh, that was, I was in floods of tears. 440 00:21:31,350 --> 00:21:39,989 And anybody who wants to get a basis of, um, of behavioral economics should, should, uh, I'm thinking fast and slow by, I was about to Dan Canman. 441 00:21:39,989 --> 00:21:40,169 Is it? 442 00:21:40,175 --> 00:21:40,639 I was about to. 443 00:21:40,979 --> 00:21:42,239 You must love that book. 444 00:21:42,239 --> 00:21:43,320 We see it's, he's like this. 445 00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:46,790 God of behavioral, uh, is, is science, isn't he? 446 00:21:46,790 --> 00:21:48,590 I mean, he's the one with all did all those tests. 447 00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:53,600 I mean, that book is just littered with, oh, then we got people and we showed them a horse and then they jumped out the window or whatever. 448 00:21:53,600 --> 00:22:01,330 You know, I don't remember that experi, but yeah, I'm sure someone's, it feels like something that wouldn't have been allowed to take health and safety reasons. 449 00:22:01,729 --> 00:22:03,770 I mean, I, I know his partner, Amos, to this. 450 00:22:03,970 --> 00:22:09,790 Who, unfortunately he didn't, he didn't share the Nobel Prize because they don't award it posthumously. 451 00:22:09,790 --> 00:22:14,470 But he would, his, his work, you know, with Daniel Canman was, yeah, really groundbreaking. 452 00:22:16,090 --> 00:22:17,740 This is our favorite part of the show. 453 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:18,160 Okay. 454 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,750 What's one, um, so Mark, this is called the Business versus Bullshit Quickfire Round. 455 00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:24,910 We are gonna say various terms. 456 00:22:25,105 --> 00:22:29,365 And you've got some cards there and needed to tell us whether it is business or bullshit. 457 00:22:29,605 --> 00:22:31,014 And so we're gonna say some stuff. 458 00:22:31,044 --> 00:22:32,305 Uh, deq the music. 459 00:22:34,645 --> 00:22:35,575 Are you ready, mark? 460 00:22:35,915 --> 00:22:36,205 Yeah. 461 00:22:36,534 --> 00:22:37,435 Okay, let's go. 462 00:22:37,915 --> 00:22:39,024 Breakfast meetings. 463 00:22:41,875 --> 00:22:42,055 Good. 464 00:22:42,325 --> 00:22:42,805 Bullshit. 465 00:22:42,810 --> 00:22:44,245 That was n f Nft. 466 00:22:44,385 --> 00:22:45,024 Oh, sorry. 467 00:22:45,585 --> 00:22:45,805 Nft. 468 00:22:45,805 --> 00:22:46,975 You've gotta say it. 469 00:22:46,975 --> 00:22:48,655 It's business cuz they're a reality. 470 00:22:48,655 --> 00:22:49,375 But whether. 471 00:22:49,745 --> 00:22:51,665 I can I be that time? 472 00:22:52,325 --> 00:22:55,105 Use your, you know, you can have that. 473 00:22:56,055 --> 00:22:56,745 Think tanks. 474 00:22:57,095 --> 00:23:00,375 I've never met a tank that really thinks that's bullshit. 475 00:23:01,425 --> 00:23:02,475 Keep outings. 476 00:23:03,105 --> 00:23:03,905 Oh God. 477 00:23:04,665 --> 00:23:06,855 You've gotta put some context on it. 478 00:23:07,145 --> 00:23:14,055 I mean, believe me, some of them are really worth it and some of them you wonder what you, can I please shit that one? 479 00:23:14,055 --> 00:23:17,945 Because it really depends on the, it depends on the team very much so, exactly. 480 00:23:17,945 --> 00:23:18,145 Yeah. 481 00:23:18,254 --> 00:23:18,544 Flex. 482 00:23:18,645 --> 00:23:19,155 All working. 483 00:23:19,605 --> 00:23:20,715 Oh, no, that's business. 484 00:23:21,075 --> 00:23:22,095 Yeah, definitely. 485 00:23:23,145 --> 00:23:24,165 Business plans. 486 00:23:25,185 --> 00:23:26,895 Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 487 00:23:26,895 --> 00:23:27,315 Business. 488 00:23:27,315 --> 00:23:27,495 Yeah. 489 00:23:27,500 --> 00:23:30,315 You gotta, you've gotta have one asking favors. 490 00:23:30,945 --> 00:23:31,245 Yeah. 491 00:23:31,250 --> 00:23:34,125 Well, it depends how you ask them, but as a psychologist, I'm gonna say yes. 492 00:23:34,845 --> 00:23:37,445 Business, uh, microdosing. 493 00:23:38,445 --> 00:23:39,855 I dunno what that means. 494 00:23:40,095 --> 00:23:40,365 Okay. 495 00:23:42,855 --> 00:23:46,064 As a psychologist, you should probably get involved Bitcoin. 496 00:23:47,175 --> 00:23:50,054 Oh, total and utter bullshit. 497 00:23:50,054 --> 00:23:50,385 Yes. 498 00:23:50,385 --> 00:23:51,735 Holding the bullshit shit. 499 00:23:51,735 --> 00:23:52,095 Sorry. 500 00:23:53,415 --> 00:23:54,435 Universal income, 501 00:23:57,524 --> 00:23:58,455 I think. 502 00:23:59,090 --> 00:24:00,830 It's going to be inevitable. 503 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:02,040 Hmm. 504 00:24:02,540 --> 00:24:04,460 And that's probably another podcast. 505 00:24:04,460 --> 00:24:04,580 Yeah. 506 00:24:04,580 --> 00:24:05,090 That's business. 507 00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:05,180 Yeah. 508 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:07,280 Like the, it's going to be inevitable. 509 00:24:07,340 --> 00:24:08,810 I mean, lockdown was a version of it. 510 00:24:09,950 --> 00:24:10,280 Yeah. 511 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,060 It was a lockdown. 512 00:24:11,060 --> 00:24:11,570 Furlough. 513 00:24:11,570 --> 00:24:12,650 Furlough was a version. 514 00:24:12,650 --> 00:24:14,000 It was a, yeah, right. 515 00:24:14,450 --> 00:24:19,790 And you see in Switzerland, they only just narrowly defeated the idea of a universal income. 516 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:26,080 And I think what's going to drive universal income is that the understanding if a pandemic can stop people earning. 517 00:24:26,820 --> 00:24:35,640 Then arguably, so can technology and with the rise of the metaverse, I think potentially you are going to see the introduction of a universal income. 518 00:24:35,970 --> 00:24:48,330 It may not be, it's not gonna be short term, but I think eventually when people realize that technology in the same way has removed a large opportunity for labor. 519 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:55,260 In, in, in, in large sections of society, the chances are the debate for universal income is gonna become very real. 520 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:06,870 One thing that does keep me awake at night is the potential darker side of AI generally, and the potential, you know, uh, with, with actually people really living in existing, solely in a metaverse, I think is something. 521 00:25:06,870 --> 00:25:06,930 Yeah. 522 00:25:07,370 --> 00:25:15,145 Um, but at the end of the day it's, it's the same thing as, as that, that is going to create, that is always, Repairing itself. 523 00:25:15,145 --> 00:25:17,035 It's always learning from itself. 524 00:25:17,065 --> 00:25:17,305 Yeah. 525 00:25:17,335 --> 00:25:21,205 So it's never the finished product or finished finished article. 526 00:25:21,205 --> 00:25:29,995 I think the thing with the universal income though, is that there are, there are gonna be certain sections of society that is going to affect more than others. 527 00:25:30,695 --> 00:25:38,855 And this is where I think the idea of a universal income will come from going viral, but you can go viral in a good way or a bad way. 528 00:25:38,855 --> 00:25:39,725 How do I answer? 529 00:25:39,725 --> 00:25:40,865 That's a big thing. 530 00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:42,355 I don't, I dunno how to answer that. 531 00:25:43,305 --> 00:25:46,895 MBAs, do you know, because I know I, I've got to say business. 532 00:25:47,264 --> 00:25:50,645 Otherwise you've got, you've got all lots of friends with them. 533 00:25:51,845 --> 00:25:52,555 They are bullshit. 534 00:25:53,215 --> 00:25:54,315 Uh, hot desking. 535 00:25:55,510 --> 00:25:57,960 Oh, do you know that as such, connotations? 536 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,820 Um, I, I think hot desking is just, it's gotta be business. 537 00:26:02,820 --> 00:26:03,810 It's just, it's life. 538 00:26:03,810 --> 00:26:05,370 It's a good use of resources. 539 00:26:05,370 --> 00:26:05,910 It's life. 540 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:06,390 Yes. 541 00:26:14,370 --> 00:26:20,189 So that was this week's episode of Bwb Extra, and we'll be back with a new episode next Tuesday. 542 00:26:20,570 --> 00:26:21,919 Until then, it's goodbye.