Inside the Commission podcast – Series 2, Episode 2

Anna (intro to topic)

This is Inside the Commission. A Gambling Commission podcast.

Welcome to Inside the Commission, a podcast all about gambling in Great Britain. Here we'll cover all the latest topics and trends from across the gambling sector, and discuss the big issues that matter to you, from consumer queries to industry insights.

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This is Inside the Commission, a Gambling Commission podcast.

In this episode, we’ll take you back to our Operator Engagement Forum (OEF) held at the ICC in Birmingham last month.

The OEF is something we’ve done for three years running, and creates a space for facetoface conversation with the industry on matters important to both them and us as the regulator.

From enforcement and intelligence, to policy and compliance, the forum has grown in attendance every year and is now one of the largest events we host for operators in Great Britain.

Whether they’re online or landbased, we spoke to a few people on the day to get their thoughts on why the OEF is important to them, how the event has progressed yearonyear, and what conversations they’re having with peers that helps them get the most out of the day.

Elliot

Pradeep, welcome to the podcast. We’re here at the third Operator Engagement Forum at the ICC in Birmingham. Just tell us your name, job title and a bit about why we’re here today?

Pradeep Rajania

Yeah sure, it’s Pradeep Rajania, I’m a senior manager within the policy team, and we’re here today in order to get all the operators together across the whole industry. For me, I’ve been delivering a session on fair terms and practices.

What does that mean for operators, in terms of fair terms and practices? We have a lot of operators come here to learn more about what we do and the way we can collaborate with operators in a much more streamlined way.

What do we mean in terms of fair terms and practices? And how can we build on what we’ve got, to what we want to be in the future?

Pradeep Rajania

So, today’s session was really a reminder of what the requirements are in relation to licence condition seven.

I think at the Commission, because we talk about these things all the time, we forget that sometimes the industry doesn’t necessarily remember some of the basic principles.

Today was about a reminder of those principles and how to build further examples.

So, the industry got a chance to talk through some of the examples, some case studies, in order to jog their memory, and also to think about what their competitors and peers have done in this area.

Elliot

And in terms of the conversations you’ve had so far today, what’s that been like? Has it been interesting? Anything that’s surprised you? Or anything that you’ve been hopeful to hear?

Pradeep Rajania

It’s been really positive, everyone’s said how much they’ve enjoyed these events, how they get to talk to their peers about different practices, and the fact that we’re available as well. It’s a much more relaxed environment compared to other types of network or stakeholder events that we hold, so you can have a real downtoearth dialogue with operators.

Kizzie Fenner

Hi, I’m Kizzie Fenner, I’m the Director of UK Compliance with Evoke.

Elliot

Fantastic, nice to meet you Kizzie. So, welcome to the Operator Engagement Forum. This is your second? third time here?

Kizzie Fenner

This is my second time at this event.

Elliot

Fantastic.

So, first of all, as the Director of UK Compliance, obviously this is a very compliancefocused event that we hold a couple of times a year. In terms of what you’ve seen before from our events, and what you’ve seen today and what you hope to get out of it yourself, what are you looking forward to today?

Kizzie Fenner

So, I think for me this event is a really important part of my calendar for the year. I’m really pleased the Commission set this up. I came to the first one, and I think we can see how it has evolved from then.

There’s a little bit more time here for that relaxed conversation with other operators, which I really enjoy to share some of those insights between operators, as well as the formal agenda.

I think the agenda today is really nicely balanced to the topical issues that we’re all thinking about, so a good focus on AML, a good focus on what the Commission is really caring about at the moment, with some really practical, tangible insights to take away. So a nice balanced agenda too.

So, obviously there’s lots of your peers here, both operator side and regulator side. In terms of the conversations you’ve had so far, or hope to have later today, is there anything you’re particularly looking for that you can take back to your workplace?

So yeah, as you say, a really nice variety of people attending. I have to say it’s incredibly well attended as well, the room is really full.

So I think it’s really good for me to meet other operators that are tier one operators, share our level of experience there.

But then on my table we had some people from oncourse bookmakers, and it’s really interesting for me to learn a little bit more about the issues that they’re facing. Some are exactly the same as us, and some have a slightly different tangent and a slightly different stance to the issues that we’re facing. I think that shared understanding is really helpful.

Elliot

And we’ve got a marketplace today, first time we’ve had it this year with policy, compliance, enforcement, and intelligence and digital here. Have you had a chance to speak to the guys over there about specifics, or are you just drinking it all in and seeing how it all goes?

Kizzie Fenner

I have, I’ve actually spent quite a bit of time in the breaks in the marketplace. I think it’s a really good addition, so it’s been nice.

Obviously, I primarily do engage with the compliance department, so it’s good to see some of those individuals that I do know and speak to, and just catch up with them.

And then across the hall we’ve got enforcement, we’ve got intelligence and insight, so I think it’s a really good way for me to build up some of those relationships with some of the other departments at the Commission. So a really welcome addition.

Elliot

Fantastic, thank you so much.

Sam Douglas

Hi, I’m Sam Douglas, I’m the Director of Safer Gambling at the Hippodrome Casino.

Elliot

Nice to meet you, Sam. So, just for the benefit of the tape as it were, can you tell us why you’re here and what you’re hoping to get out of today?

Sam Douglas

Partly to engage with my colleagues in the industry, but also to understand the priorities of the Commission, to give me things to act on in the future and to help plan out work going forward.

Elliot

And in terms of, you’ve been here, of course, the past couple of sessions last year — what differences can you see based on what you saw at our last event compared to what you’ve seen so far today? How do they differ?

Sam Douglas

It’s great that they’ve listened to the feedback after the last session. I was part of the working group to help develop this session. I think we’ve got a little bit more time to engage and network with our colleagues, which has been really positive. I think scenariobased questions, we’ve worked on that quite a bit. You can really see that they’ve listened to feedback and tried to make it better.

Elliot

Is there anything you’d like to see later based on the sessions that are coming up? Is there anything you’re particularly interested in, or something that’s maybe not on the agenda that you thought would be really good to hear from us?

Sam Douglas

I’m really looking forward to the sessions about antimoney laundering. I think we’re all searching for what really best practice is, to identify what is required for us, put plans in place. That wasn’t covered at the last forum, so I’d be really interested to hear both what the Commission have got to say, and also colleagues in the industry.

Elliot

Appreciate your time Sam, thanks so much.

Elliot

Steve Smyth, Mecca Bingo, how are you?

Steve Smyth

Hi, I’m fine, how are you Elliot?

Elliot

Not too bad thank you, thanks for asking. Welcome to the Operator Engagement Forum. You gave, of course, the first speaker’s session this morning, didn’t you? How did you find it?

Steve Smyth

I found it quite good actually. It’s weird because a lot of people in the room I don’t know, and yet I’m telling them about things that they probably know about as well, but not from my perspective in terms of remote versus nonremote. Mine was a nonremote presentation about bingo and casinos, and how we get assessed by the Gambling Commission.

Elliot

In terms of your participation last year and this year, just tell us a bit about what the difference is, other than the fact you were speaking on stage. Has the conversation progressed significantly since then? Have you seen things that you’ve been pleased to see in terms of the relationship between the Commission and operators? Have there been things that maybe haven’t got as far as you’d like? How do you assess that?

Steve Smyth

I’d say things have definitely got better. There seems to be an understanding from both sides of the fence — the operator versus the Commission — that they are understanding each other a bit more. Understanding that there’s tension which can be worked on, that no one’s got the perfect answer all the time, but I think everybody’s working towards a much better position than they probably were five, ten, fifteen years ago, definitely.

Elliot

And as a landbased operator, your challenges are of course slightly different to those of the online. I suppose there might be a little bit of not wanting to be left behind for the online world. In terms of the progress you’re seeing from our side, the Commission side, with keeping you guys just as up to speed as online, has that been going at a pace that you’ve been pleased about? Or are there still things we’d like to address?

Steve Smyth

No, I think it’s OK. It’s a challenge in the nonremote side, particularly in casinos. It’s a risk. It’s a risky business, but it’s an enjoyable business for thousands of customers across the whole industry every week. But there’s an element that are at risk and we need to deal with. And that’s the challenge — sifting away from the 99% of customers who are just leisurebased to the 1% that are a risk to the business and risk to the prime objectives.

Elliot

And in terms of, obviously we’re near the end of the day now. So you’ll have had plenty of chances to speak to your peers around here and members of the Commission. What kind of interesting conversations have you been having? What have you taken advantage of today?

Steve Smyth

Probably not really had much chance, really. I mean, you end up being with your own sector. And then you obviously have the topics I’ve been discussing, so those are the themes of that. You’ve had a quick lunch where you meet a few different people at breaks, and that, so really probably not much chance to go outside the normal regime, unfortunately.

But yeah, it’d be great to — it’s just finding the time because everyone’s in a rush. And everybody will be rushing off at the end.

Elliot

You’ll have to come back.

Steve Smyth

Yeah, as overnight stays or something. Gambling Commission need to finance a whole night, and then everybody can stay and really put the world to rights.

Elliot

I mean, if you’d like to make it a festival or a long weekend.

Steve Smyth

Yeah. Festival. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’ll be a long weekend. Might as well see to it, yeah.

Elliot

Thank you Steve.

Steve Smyth

No worries Elliot, take care.

John Pierce

My name is John Pierce.

I'm Director of Enforcement and Intelligence for the Gambling Commission.

Elliot

Thanks, John. So we're three quarters of the way through today's event. We've had lots of discussions, lots of people really interested in all manner of things that the Commission is speaking about today. From your perspective, this is your first operator engagement forum, that’s right?

John Pierce

Absolutely. It's my first time at the operator engagement forum. Really enjoyed it today. I've had a great opportunity to start meeting some operators, had some really interesting conversations at marketplace, talking about some of the AML issues that industry is seeing and also trying to celebrate and share some of the work that we've been doing as well.

So yeah, it's been really useful today to actually give some insight to industry around some of the AML work that we've been doing and also what the plans are as well. So that's a really important part of our session today in terms of some of the discussions that we've had at the back at the AML marketplace. There’s been some really, really interesting debate taking place.

It's really great to have the opportunity to come and meet, speak to operators. There are some really tricky examples of issues that they're seeing out there at the moment and asking for our views and opinions on that. And I think that's great.

Elliot

Honestly, AML — antimoney laundering — and the intelligence side of gambling regulation is becoming much bigger. I think that’s a fair thing to say. Lots of people have got opinions on how we can potentially approach things like tackling the black market, and given your team have done a lot of work in that area, has there been anything said today that's given you food for thought or taken you by surprise? Or has it been all very much the sort of topics of conversation that we're already tackling, which is more of the same?

John Pierce

I think what today's demonstrated is it's a really valuable opportunity to start having those conversations around the AML issues that the industry has seen actually in practice. So, stepping away from looking at general policies and procedures, we actually present those with some realworld examples and actually come to the Commission and try to have a bit of debate about how we are going to deal with some of these issues.

Just going back to the illegal markets point, it's been great today to give a little bit of oversight around some of the work that the team are doing, and it's been a huge spotlight on the illegal markets work. And, you know, we haven't got all the answers to it. But we're really trying our best to get a grip of it and really get going with some of our disruption working processes.

It's really good to share as well some updates to the figures that we've done recently. Over 200,000 URLs have been reported to Google and Bing since April 2024. If you go back a little bit further in time, we did 6,000 the previous year. So you can see that huge uplift. That's all about making sure that we've got people in place in the team that are actually doing this work fulltime and looking to grow it out and develop our approach to tackling the illegal marketplace.

Elliot

Love a statistic. Is there any curveballs? Anything you’ve thought, “Oh, I've not really thought about that from an operator's perspective”? Or has it all been pretty easy breezy?

John Pierce

A few things have come up that we were expecting. So with some questions about our views around business relationships and when that starts, we've been able to share today how we'll be updating our guidance on that in the next few months, which is great. I know that's been an issue that's caused a little bit of friction between the Gambling Commission and operators. So let's have those discussions, let's try and fix some of these issues as well and give out this helpful guidance. That's definitely been one area.

The other point was around the AML code as well. So again, that's really important to industry. And we keep emphasising the point, which is, we're very happy to look at some of these things. But we really need to attack it from a strong evidence base. When you look at where we're going with the fast evaluation, I'm sure everybody in the room knows how important it is that we get these things right.

Elliot

Excellent, thank you so much, John.

John Pierce

You're welcome. Thanks.

Anna (outro)

This is Inside the Commission, a Gambling Commission podcast.

Thank you for listening to part one of this bonus summer episode. Listen out for the next part, where we'll hear from Tim Miller, Executive Director, to add more detail on how working with international partners adds value to our work as a regulator here in Great Britain.

This is Inside the Commission, a Gambling Commission podcast. To stay up to date with the latest content, you can subscribe to our Gambling Commission YouTube channel, or find us on your preferred platform wherever you listen to your podcasts. Thanks for listening.