If meditation and breathing exercises make you more anxious, you're not broken.

Your nervous system is potentially telling you something important.

In this episode, we're brakeing down why certain safety practices backfire for

freeze dominance people in particular, and what actually works instead.

Plus, um, what that postan anxiety spike really means about your recovery.

Hi, I am Justin Sunseri, and this is Stuck Not Broken.

I'm a therapist coach and a member of the Polyvagal Institute Editorial Board.

That means I'm one of a few people who review articles and board games

or apps for Polyvagal Theory accuracy when they are submitted for review.

So I'm responding to an email I got from someone I will call, uh, Jeri

with an i. Jeri with an I says,

Hi Justin.

I have your Stuck Not Broken: Book 2 book and am working through it.

It's really clicking with me and I feel so grateful to have found your work.

Where can I buy Stuck Not Broken: book 3 to work through once I've

built enough safety through Book 2?

I can't see it for sale anywhere.

So book three is nearly done.

Um, the release date should be by mid 2026, which is way overdue, but

this one's been quite a challenge.

Um, so Jeri goes on to say, I believe I am mainly stuck in

freeze and other times flight.

In doing some of the safety anchors, I often then experience a huge

amount of anxiety for a while.

It's improved when moving away from stationary safety practices like

breathing or meditation and doing things like mindful walking and or movement.

I will experience deep relaxation and then a while later, a huge physical anxiety.

I believe this is a good sign, a sign of the body moving up the polyvagal ladder.

I just wanted to check that I can expect this to reduce as time goes on.

I'm in my second week of daily practice.

I've also reduced the length of time I spend in safety anchoring.

I was doing a lot, maybe 30, 45 minutes a day.

Thank you for the email, Jeri and, um, not only for buying book two, not only

for reading book two, but implementing the book two ideas and practices as well.

If you're not familiar with my books, dear Listener, um, Book One teaches the

polyvagal theory and helps you to write a new, simple shame-free life narrative.

And Book Two helps you learn deeply about, uh, Polyvagal safety, how

to access it, and how to build it.

So there's a lot to get into with this question.

We will start with, um, a potentially unhelpful assumption that you may have.

And this is for everyone, not just, uh, Jeri, of course.

First off, safety refers to biology.

In the Polyvagal Theory, it refers to biology.

There are specific biological pathways responsible for our

capacity to think critically.

To socially engage, to play, to create, and to even sit quietly in meditation.

Safety does not necessarily look like calm, still meditative and quiet.

It depends on what safety is mixing with- that, that biological pathway.

So if you have safety plus mobility of flight, fight, this combination of

safety results in play and productivity, creativity and motivation, when safety

combines with the, uh, immobility of shutdown, that results in stillness.

Freeze is a little different.

Freeze, by the way, is the combination of flight, fight, mobility, the sympathetic

mobility plus shutdown immobility.

It's mobile and immobile at the same time, like having one foot

on the gas and one on the brake.

Um, this can be true for people who get triggered into a freeze, like a panic

attack, but it can also be true for those who live in a chronic freeze where

their underlying state is, is freeze.

This person is a, is always in an underlying overwhelm or panic or rage.

So when those who are more flight fight or freeze dominated, try to sit still

and meditate, it doesn't go very well.

Because immobilizing for these individuals is kind of not safe.

Literally in the environment, sure it, it might be safe, but as far

as the body is concerned in the polyvagal and nervous system world, no.

There may not be safety internally.

So anyways, immobilizing for someone in freeze is not felt as safe in the body.

"Why would this be Justin?" Well, freeze is immobilization plus mobilization

feet on the gas and the brake, remember?

More immobilization like meditation and breath work can

feel like being trapped again.

The internal flight fight can't tolerate the immobility.

And the immobility of freeze can't tolerate the internal

unrest of flight, fight.

Freeze types often need to mobilize to cue safety.

In fact, I think they're drawn to it.

I've worked with freeze clients who feel a pull toward hyper productivity,

hyper exercising, hyper everything.

So their body knows something that their conscious sprain doesn't.

That movement is good, but it's out of control.

Dysregulated.

But as their safety state strengthens over time, the dysregulated

mobility decreases in intensity.

So needing movement is not a flaw.

It's it's okay to need movement and to not feel okay with stillness practices.

So if you've ever felt like meditation makes you more anxious, or breathing

exercises make you feel more trapped, or you need to move to feel better, yeah.

And that's okay.

Your body's probably telling you something.

So instead of immobility, you might need movement.

What kind of movement?

I can't answer that for you in particular.

I don't think that's, um, the way that this works.

Some practical examples of potential movements include walking, fidgeting,

swaying, or even working out.

But no matter what movement you decide to try out, do it mindfully.

Actually pay attention to the sensory input around you on a walk.

Actually pay attention to your muscles contracting and

stretching when you work out.

As you bring a bit more mindfulness, also be a bit more aware of your breath.

And as you do these, not controlling your breath, but just being aware of it.

And as you do these, you'll probably slow down a little, and connection

with the present moment might increase.

And if you can do that, you'll be better able to connect with what's

happening internally and for autonomic shifts to spontaneously happen.

So now let's talk about the anxiety spike.

There are three potentials here I can think of.

When you anchor into safety through the ideas and the skills in book two,

there's a potential for defensive activation to surface during

your practice or even later on.

This is a very normal and expected outcome of practicing safety.

And I discuss this briefly on page 18 in the book, if you, if you

own the book, it's on page 18.

One possibility is that the body attempts to self-regulate while

you do your safety practice.

And when it does, the feelings of that state will surface.

For example, when someone in shutdown mindfully connects with

their passive safety environment, they're likely to feel sadness.

The sadness is already there, but now the individual is practicing present moment

mindfulness, so they're more aware of it.

But the body is also now accessing safety and naturally attempts to self-regulate,

which is good, but it may be unexpected.

The second possibility that I can think of is that these are sort

of this, the anxiety is like an after effect of safety practices.

During stage two, the focus is on building safety- uh, the book too, the

focus is on building safety and capacity, but it's not all hunky dory, exactly.

The body is undergoing autonomic shifts, so it needs to integrate and to adjust.

That's the kind of the best way I can put it.

Basically, we may notice emotional shifts later on.

I recommend to my clients that they don't push it and do very minimum self-care

stuff for like the rest of the day, like, get enough water, rest, connection

with other people or maybe their pet.

Uh, basically give the body a chance to recover.

These are autonomic shifts that are, uh, that we're undergoing.

And the third potential is that the immobilization piece of the freeze is

releasing, opening the, the mobility's potential for mobilizing- for movement.

But the system lacks a sufficient vagal brake, which is the influence

of the safety state on the heart.

You would increase vagal brake strength through exercising the safety pathways.

When sufficiently strengthened, the safety state's vagal brake

will calm, uh, the heart.

And if the heart rate calms, then flight fight calms along with it.

So, although safety is very possible, even for those living in chronic freeze,

it's also likely that whatever's frozen might mobilize, uh, potentially even

to the point of dysregulation if the safety state's not strong enough.

Someone who's starting to regulate out of a frozen fight will experience

increased agitation and potentially rage depending on vagal brake strength.

Frozen flights might show up as anxiety, but also as panic.

Again, depending on the vagal brake strength.

If this is you or it has been you, there's a good chance you've given up

and, and lost hope, um, or you were terrified of what you assumed you would

find, uh, within or what would happen.

And these are valid concerns.

You may think, "This practice is making me worse," but the reality might be "My

system's finally safe enough to start processing or to start self-regulating."

You can reframe this as the beginning of untucking and yeah, it's not easy.

I'm not saying that.

Think of it, um, like you started a, a new workout routine.

You might have moments when you feel incredible and motivated.

So you put in the reps at the gym and you are, you get your heart

rate up and you sweat buckets.

You feel proud, accomplished.

And that's great, good for you.

But, um, it's not all feeling empowered and motivated, right?

Over the next day or two, your body will recover, but you may

feel incredibly sore and achy.

It might even hurt to move.

So it's not exactly the same, but there is some parallel to the

unstucking work that we're doing here.

With with that scenario, if you go too hard, your body will pay the price

and the recovery will be a struggle no matter what stuck state that you're in.

So I recommend working within your capacity.

I recommend this for you if you are working through book two.

Um, and for those in the Unstucking Academy and those who are

doing the safety simplified or self-regulation simplified cohorts.

Work within your capacity.

This is something I've really been harping on recently.

Work within your capacity.

Working within your capacity means practicing the unstucking skills at a

doable but challenging pace and depth.

So person A might practice 30 seconds of simple mindfulness daily, and

that's the best that they can do.

Uh, person B might do a five minute guided meditation a few times a week as

we do inside of the Untucking Academy.

And person C might practice meditation, self-guided for 20 minutes a week

and every other day they are doing simple sensory mindfulness practices.

There's no right answer.

You need to listen to your capacity.

Once one gets to the edge of what they can tolerate of their capacity.

Once you get to that edge, it's probably time to compassionately greet

that edge and then stop the practice.

You'll know the edge of your capacity because uninvited and uncomfortable

emotions and thoughts will show up like fear or a painful memory.

Those are clear signs that we're at the edge of our capacity.

We don't want to avoid these things.

That's not the point.

Um, we want to invite them from a regulated state.

When regulated, you'll actually invite un uncomfy emotions and memories

and thoughts from compassion and curiosity, but you gotta be regulated.

So yeah, the anxiety spike for someone coming out of a flight flavored

freeze is pretty darn normal and to be expected, or at least a potential.

Those will come and go, and over time the intensity, frequency

and duration will decrease as as you strengthen your safety state.

In the meantime, listen to your capacity.

If the anxiety's not improving, you're likely doing too

much and need to scale back.

Shorten your practice and simplify them as much as possible.

Uh, the email writer is a couple of weeks into their practices.

Absolutely amazing.

Keep going.

The safety state can strengthen over weeks, but I would

expect more like months.

How many months?

I can't say for certain.

There are a ton of variables that come into play.

I recently returned to focusing on my own safety practices, and I noticed

that my, because I was tracking it through my co- AI coaching app- um,

I noticed that my safety baseline had increased over the past few months.

So I'll switch gears completely now and get to the overall picture.

Yes, you want to get unstuck from freeze.

You want more freedom, more calm, and more connection.

Of course.

Absolutely.

And it's possible to get there.

But I want you to keep in mind that when working with any stuck defensive

state, including freeze, the goal of practice is to build capacity.

There is no fix, no hack or short shortcut.

I, I know you know that, but we need to keep that at the forefront of our mind.

So when you practice, think of it like putting in the reps as if you're

going to a gym to build strength.

Or think of it like practicing drawing a face over and over to

get better at drawing portraits.

As you put in reps in the gym, you gradually get stronger over time.

As you practice drawing faces, your skill increases and you

can draw better portraits.

It is not easy and it takes time.

It takes patience, which somebody in freeze typically may have very little of.

But as you practice safety, patience will probably grow along with it.

Freeze can thaw quickly, so it's important to listen to the body's

signals and adjust your practices.

Ideally, freeze thaws slowly.

As it thaws, we gently connect with the flight, fight underneath it, and then

channel it through mindful movement.

And then we repeat, slowly and gently releasing the frozen

mobility a little bit at a time.

I love this process because it puts you into the position

of being your own expert.

Yeah, you're listening to me right now and I appreciate that.

But I want you to eventually build your own self-regulation.

I want you to be able to recognize what's too much or too little, and to

make small adjustments here and there.

Just experiment and see what works best for you.

Yeah, listen to me and, and others along the way.

I'm honored.

Seriously.

Um, you could even join me in the next free, live, Mindful Moment and practice

super simple mindfulness, uh, no matter where you are or what you're doing.

I'm happy to be an aid as you connect with the present moment and with yourself.

I will include a link to find out more about, uh, Mindful Moments and

my other offerings in the description.

It is stucknotbroken.com/start.

stucknotbroken.com/start.

So I will wrap things up, uh, with a handful of key points to

remember, this is kind of a lot.

If meditation makes you more anxious, that's not a flaw in you.

That's your nervous system asking for something different.

Listen to it, trust it, and keep going.

Meditation is maybe most challenging for somebody and freeze, so come back to it

maybe another day when you're ready to.

Safety looks different for different nervous systems.

The right practice is the one your body tells you works.

You gotta listen.

Post anchor anxiety, movement based anchoring, shorter

sessions, self-correction.

All of this is progress.

If you're in freeze or flight, experiment with, uh, movement based

anchoring, safety cueing, I mean.

Notice what happens and, and trust that.

I appreciate you so much for spending some time with me here on Stuck Not Broken.

Bye.

This, another content I create is not therapy, not intended to be therapy

or be a replacement for therapy.

Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship.

Please consult with your therapist or speak for one in your area if you're

experiencing mental health symptoms.

Nothing should be construed to be specific life advice.

It is for educational and entertainment purposes only.