Welcome to the six figure business mastery podcast, where every week

Kirsten and Jeannie dive into the essential topics to fuel your business

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So get ready to unlock your business potential and take it to the next level.

Welcome everyone to our newest.

Episode.

I'm very excited to introduce you to Terrence Tam.

His company is called Radical Marketing, and I'm going to have him

tell us a little bit about himself.

So welcome Terrence.

We're thrilled to have you on the podcast today.

Awesome, Jeannie.

I just am so excited to be on this podcast.

And yeah, just a bit of background by myself.

I started off in academia being a lecturer and all that, but after a while, the

entrepreneur bug just wouldn't leave me.

And I decided, okay, that's it.

I'm just jumping out and taking a step faith and going into starting a business.

So I started this little print shop back in Australia when I was still there and

evolve into book publishing business.

And after a while I realized, Hey, I should really do something

that I'm passionate about.

And that's where I got back into marketing, which was my, always been

my first love since my university days.

So yeah, I started a marketing agency and here we are 10 years later,

specializing in putting bumps on seats for seminars and webinars and challenges

and what have you for coaches and course creators all around the world.

I love that.

I love that.

We actually have a lot in common because I went to school to college for marketing.

And then did have my own marketing agency as well.

And yeah, I had that, I worked nine to five and then I got the

entrepreneurial bug and here I am, I don't know, 15, 20 years later.

It's a good infection to have that entrepreneurial bug.

It really is.

It really is.

And I can hear when you talk, your Australian accent comes

through just a little bit.

Yeah, just a little bit.

Yeah.

So I was born in Australia and as I mentioned, I kind of lived there

half my life and the rest of my life I've been in Asia and right now I

live in Malaysia and we've set up base in Malaysia and it's been great.

I mean, Malaysia is much more, I guess, accessible to the rest of

the world compared to Australia.

And yeah, I'm loving it in Asia right now.

Yeah.

Oh, that's fantastic.

I haven't been to both either place, but it's on my list.

So I'm sure we'll get there.

So today we're going to talk about scaling your business with webinars.

And I'm excited to talk about that because webinars can be so

powerful, but webinars can also be not as effective as they can be.

You know what I mean?

Like sometimes we take, we assume what we want people to know, we record it, we

get it out there, we do the funnel and everything, and then it just falls flat.

So I'm excited to hear your strategy and your secrets for making them effective.

So tell us a little bit about webinars and how you work with people on webinars.

Okay.

So what we've done over the past 10 years is we've developed three separate

systems, and I'll just give you a high level overview of the systems.

And the first one is called brand advertising.

And what do we call it?

Brand advertising is that most people in our space, what they do is they're just

looking for the transaction for the cell.

But the issue is like, if you're teaching like weight loss or investing, stock

market investing, for instance, there's 5, 000 people teaching weight loss and

stock investing being conservative here.

There's probably like 50, 000, right?

And one of the things is that most people don't think about how to use ads

to actually stand out from the crowd.

And that's why we've developed this whole system that simultaneously, while

we're getting transactions, also aim to help our clients to brand themselves,

so that they're playing the long game and the short game at the same time.

Without running off cash because, you know, you can't keep doing

branding without making sales because you go broke pretty fast, right?

That's step one, brand advertising.

The second system that we've developed, and this is where we

see a lot of coaches leaving money on the table with their webinars.

All right, and that's why we developed this whole thing called

the long tail webinar system.

And what it does is that, all right, so taking a step back, most coaches would

just go for the webinar and then maybe send out replay and that's the end, right?

And they start counting the eggs whether it was a success

or whether it's a failure.

Now, what we realized is that if you have a structured follow up sequence

after the webinar itself, Maybe for up to 30 days or even longer, that's

where you can actually get more sales.

And in fact, sometimes you get more sales than the webinar itself, right?

And yeah, so many people are leaving money on the table and that's why we developed

this whole long tail webinar system.

And the final thing we have created just quickly is what we

call the blitz advertising system.

And that's where we're running ads for our clients.

And one of the things with ads is that.

They get expensive after a while, whether you're running a Facebook or

YouTube and all that kind of stuff.

Right?

So the business advertising system does two things.

One is rapid testing, because we don't know which ad actually works.

We might, you know, it's no point trying to spend two days coming

up with one ad idea and think, Oh, this is going to be awesome.

And then you plow in all your hope and all your ad budget into it

and find out it's actually a flop.

So what we do is we do like 20, 30 different ads and test them quickly, the

bad ones and leave the good ones running.

And then from there we further scale from there.

And even when we find a really good one, the other goal here is that

we want to beat the control app, which is the winning app, right?

So even though we might get 50 percent off the normal CPLs, but we're

like, okay, now how do we beat this?

We don't rest on our laurels and take a vacation.

That doesn't happen.

Agency will, unfortunately, we should try to beat the control.

Okay.

So that's basically the three things that we normally do.

So I hope that shed some light.

And if you want to dig into any of them, let's.

Oh, yes, absolutely.

We're going to dig into all of them.

So when you start working with someone, tell me a little bit about what you

need to know from them and kind of where you start, cause you probably

don't start with the ads, you probably start with, I mean, do you help them

put together the content for the webinar itself and make sure that it's.

There's a lot of different elements to a webinar.

People think, Oh, I'll just teach something, but there's a lot of

nuances to making it effective.

So tell us a little bit about that.

I think the first thing to really take note of is that most people,

when they do webinars, they're like, I'm really good at this topic.

I'll just teach this topic.

Right.

But actually the mindset, the correct mindset, and that's, which is what

we encourage our clients to do.

And we help them to dig out this important thing is that who is

actually the person you serve?

Who is your customer avatar?

Right.

Not what you can teach, but who are you actually serving and what kind of problem

are you actually helping them to solve?

Right.

That is the most important thing because otherwise you end up with a lot of

appliance when they first come to us.

So who do you want to target?

Oh, anyone that has house and has money.

You know, that's not a good way to do marketing at all, but it's so common, we

might laugh here, but that is so common, like, probably 80 percent of our clients

that initially come to us like that.

So, yeah, that would be the first thing that I would actually look at first.

Okay.

And your webinar has to help them to solve a pressing problem.

Because otherwise, you're asking people to invest the time in you, maybe 45 minutes,

one hour, two hours, and if you're doing a challenge, maybe over three or five

nights or five days, you gotta help them to solve a problem that it's like a

burning problem, a bleeding neck problem.

Otherwise, they're not going to show up.

Yeah, I totally get that.

And we've all been through webinars where the first half

hour is them talking about them.

And that just drives me crazy because yes, I want to know a little bit about you, but

I want to solve my bleeding neck problem.

So do you encourage people to start with that really crazy,

powerful problem at the beginning?

Absolutely.

And I think it is like one of the things that people often, the mistake

people often commit is that they try and solve too many problems at one webinar.

But the thing is, people just are just looking for that one big problem that

you can help them solve and they're willing to commit their time to it.

So get very specific as to what problem you help them solve.

For example, right.

Do not talk about how to invest in stocks, but maybe teach them specifically.

How do you evaluate whether a stock is going to go up for the next 10 years?

Right.

So it's a bit more specific than how to invest in stocks in general.

Right.

And yeah, or how to value whether a company is going to go

bankrupt in the next five years.

So those are more specific things that like kind of people will keep them kind

of what would keep people awake at night.

Oh, is my portfolio going to drop by 20%?

Is this company going to go bust?

So I'm just using stocks here as an example.

It can be anything else.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I love that because I was subscribed to people with a theory that whatever

you're teaching them in your webinar or educating them on, they're evaluating

whatever you have to offer based on the value that you give them in the webinar.

And I know in our minds, I think sometimes we think, Oh, we don't

want to give away everything, but you kind of have to give away everything

in one tiny part of what you offer.

Do you agree?

Yeah, I agree.

So you help them solve one problem, but it's useful.

But then again, it's not solving the entirety of the problem.

You might be helping them solve like a third of the problem, but the rest of

the problem they need to You basically need to, they basically need to sign

up for something else that actually solves the entirety of the problem.

Yeah, I love that.

So when you help them create their webinar, then what's your next step?

Is it the landing page to get people to sign up for it?

Is it the ad? Is it both at the same time?

That's where the elicitizing process comes in.

So before we actually run any traffic to the landing page, we want to decide.

What message actually will stick, right?

What is the pain points that people will respond to?

So what we do is we run some simple ads with pain points, just pain points

in the ads and just run some traffic to it and see what people click on.

So we might run 20 pain points, right?

And we find that one of those pain points is like getting the most clicks.

Then there's a good chance that is the pain point people want solved, right?

And then we use that in our messaging.

We use that and we communicate with the client to say, Hey, you probably

should solve this offer or have something along the lines of your

webinar that can solve this problem for your prospect, because they are

responding to it and the data backs it.

So there's no arguments about it.

So before actually constructing the funnel, that's what I would do.

But once we have all the data, or once we have all the research done on

a custom avatar, the first thing we do is we will build the funnel first.

Right.

The whole funnel.

And that's the whole long tail webinar funnel.

So we have the sequences and various pages, maybe like after the webinar, what

do we have planned after the webinar?

Is it like a blog posts?

Is it like some videos that we have planned or something else?

Some lead magnets that we might drop after the webinar.

So we plan all that thing built out of all that.

Sorry, let's start again.

So we built the whole long tail webinar system out before we

actually start running ads.

I love that.

So let's, let me jump back a little bit.

So when you're testing ads, you're testing the problem.

What do you ask for in the ad? Is it like a answer this question, pick out

what's your biggest hangup or is it you go ahead and put out there the pain

points, but where do you direct them?

I mean, at this point you're just testing, so you're using very small budgets.

So the goal is not to get any conversions.

The goal is just to get some clicks and you might spend just 1,

500, but that's money well spent.

So what we normally do is just get them to click and go to blog posts that the

client has, or maybe just go to their homepage, just something that's relevant.

And from there we can kind of gauge because, yeah, that is the

whole purpose of the exercise.

Yeah, I love that.

That's perfect.

Because, yeah, I mean, it's funny.

We want to go out there and tell them all these different amazing

things that we can do for them.

But at the end of the day, it's them.

What is their big pressing issue that they need help with?

I find myself guilty of being too product centric rather than customer centric.

Because we are here to help them solve problems, even as any business, right?

So if we don't help them solve problems, they

don't pay us money.

Simple as that.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I'm totally guilty also of talking about features instead of benefits.

So I know personally, that's a problem that I have.

And I'm sure a lot of your clients probably do as well.

So we can do this.

We can do this.

We can do this.

Hang on a minute.

Let's see what they need first.

Yeah.

Um,

maybe the customer doesn't care what you can do, they care how you can help them.

You're so right, they really don't care.

Okay, let's talk about after the webinar.

You talked about following up with them for 20 to 30, no, did you say 30

days or something along those lines?

I think that a lot of people would say 30 days.

A lot of people would say, whoa, hang on a minute, that's too much.

I send them three or five emails and that's it.

So let's talk a little bit about that.

So here's the thing, right?

I'm sure you and I have both gone to webinars and we have been like, Oh,

that sounds like a really good idea.

And we're like, okay, let me think about it.

And then like tomorrow comes and I kind of forgot about it.

And then, Oh, you get sent a replay and you're like, Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

God, let me look into it later.

And then you forget about it.

And that happens so often, or people are just on the fence

and they're thinking 5, 000.

Do I really want to invest this 5, 000?

It sounds really good, but that's just something that I'm missing.

Some piece of information I'm missing, but I'm not sure what it is.

And that's where that follow up sequence where you constantly deliver value while

asking at the same time That is where we can convert some of those fences into

bias And that's the whole purpose of it.

So it, I know it sounds like a lot, but it's like a drip sequence.

So it's all automated.

So you don't have to be on the computer typing every day.

Oh, what I type today and what do I do today?

So it's kind of all set up automated.

So yeah, it's, you're just basically sitting back and watching the

inquiries or money orders come in.

Yes.

I love that.

We love automation.

Let me see.

I had another question.

Oh, so let's talk a little bit about high ticket versus low ticket.

Do you encourage people with webinars to be selling a high

ticket item or not necessarily?

Good question.

I think if you're running ads nowadays, it's actually good to actually have a

high ticket offer because it's getting harder and harder to make money if you're

running ads, because ads are just becoming more competitive and everything else.

So I would encourage you to come up with a high ticket offer, but then also

have a low ticket down sale as well.

Okay.

And many times it, the webinar, the sale at the webinar is not necessarily

the high ticket item straight away.

It can be the strategy session that comes next, maybe like a 30 minute

discovery course, strategy session, whatever you want to call it.

And then you might have two or three different offers after that,

depending on what the client really needs and the budget of course,

and then you can prescribe them what suits their particular need.

That is a model that works pretty well right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that.

Cause sometimes it is hard to just go from cold traffic to a webinar.

And even though they got to know you and spend some time with you to get them.

To buy something, especially if it's high ticket.

So you found that offering them something else or offering them a

call has been a really good process.

Yeah, absolutely.

And of course, some people stick to the local ticket right after the

webinar, and that's fine too, as long as you've got that essential model

where you send them from like maybe 197 to 2, 000 or whatever it is, right.

So the, the key is you need to plan all that out.

Oh, yes.

The key is always to plan it all in advance.

Cause, and I've been guilty of this years ago.

We first did webinars.

It was like, oh my gosh, we should send them this.

Oh, we should send them that.

But we're a little smarter nowadays that we've done this quite a few times.

So it sounds like you guys have a great plan and a great

process for helping people.

Do you typically work with people who've never done webinars or

people who may have tried them?

Tell me a little bit about who you work with.

Most people that come to us I usually relatively well

established coaches in the niche.

I'm not talking super well established like the Tony Robbins

of the world, but somewhere maybe they're doing around half a million

to a million, that kind of range.

And they're kind of stuck because they're probably hired an agency

that is not doing the job properly.

And they probably, that agency probably does webinars.

They do lead gen for solicitors and they do 10, 000 other things.

And they're not really focused.

That's where they usually come to us.

And they say, how do we get this profitable?

Right.

And that's, those are the types of people that we normally help to

actually scale to the next level.

Because it's like running ads.

And that's what we normally do.

Run ads to fill webinars.

Running ads is not a game for the weak hearted.

You really need to have the budget to run ads.

And it's not, Oh, I'll just have this 3, 000 and I've saved up all year.

And I'll just run that and hopefully I'll make money from it.

It doesn't work like that.

Right.

You probably need to have three, at least three, six months of running webinars.

Before you yourself get really familiar with the whole platform

and what offers actually work and get the data back as well.

So that's what I would suggest.

And that's, that's the type of people who normally work with

that we get the best results for.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely.

Go ahead.

Yeah.

It's not a total like people who are just, wow, let's try out

webinars for twice, once or twice a month too, and see how it goes.

Yeah.

That normally doesn't work.

No matter what agency you hire in that case.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I totally agree with that.

So when you work with your clients, do they typically do

live webinars or recorded webinars or one or the other or both?

And do you have a launch, if you will, sign up for a

webinar on this particular day?

So tell me a little bit about those kind of details.

Yeah, most of our clients at the moment, they are doing live webinars

or some do like live webinars.

So it's actually recording, but it appears live and they market it as a live webinar.

I know it's kind of a little bit deceptive, but yeah, I

mean, that's on the client side.

That's what they like to do just to save time and all that kind of stuff.

But as long as people get value, right, that's the bottom line.

Yeah.

And so we find that live webinars, of course, the engagement is going to

be way better because you're actually interacting with people and answering

the questions and incorporating their feedback into your presentation.

So, live webinars tend to work better.

In most cases, like evergreen webinars, where people are seeing that they can

start at any time, those ones tend to get a high percentage of drop offs.

So it's not our preferred model.

So unfortunately, yeah, you still have to probably do the live

ones to get the best results.

Yeah.

And do you encourage them to do one a month or one every other week, or?

I think that comes down to number one, the client's level of energy.

Number two, whether they have the budget to run webinars every week.

So some clients, they run webinars every week and they're just doing really well.

Some clients choose to run the challenge every month because it's a lot more time

consuming and energy consuming as well.

If you're doing a three to five day challenge.

That works pretty well as well, but if you're just running a one hour

webinar, I would say at least do it fortnightly because you also need to

learn how to present, how to close and all that different, those different

things to make a webinar successful.

Yeah, I love that.

Well, this has been amazing, Terrence.

You are a wealth of information.

So I so appreciate you coming on and sharing all of this with us.

Yeah, no, it's been great.

I hope I wasn't too technical and I basically contributed a lot of

information to you guys out there.

Yep.

No, never too technical.

And we love all the details.

And I must say, just to put my two cents in, you can spend an awful lot of

money on Facebook ads and do nothing.

So you really need to have somebody.

on your team or that you outsource to who knows what they're doing

because you can throw thousands and still not get the results you want.

So we are grateful for people out there like you.

And you have your own podcast.

So tell us a little bit about that.

My own podcast called Founders Go Naked.

So we're gonna need to change the name because I'm attracting the wrong

people sometimes for all these reasons.

But the whole reason why we called it Founders Go Naked was it was geared

to become like a interview where we basically review everything, right?

A podcast where we review everything.

Yeah.

Check out Founders Go Naked.

I add new episodes every week.

So yeah, check it out.

Fantastic.

And if people want to reach out to you because they want to learn more about

how you might be able to help them use webinars to grow their business, what's

the best way for them to reach out to you?

I mean, happy to get on a discovery call with any of your listeners and

provide value before we do anything, whether we have a right fit or not.

So if that's you, just hop onto radical marketing.

com and you'll be able to find the contact details there.

So that's radical marketing.

com.

Unfortunately, the RadicalMarketing.

com without the dash is taken by someone in the Middle East and he

refuses to tell me the domain names.

That's life.

It happens.

It happens, but that's fantastic.

And we will definitely put that in the show notes so people can just click and

um, go ahead and book a call with you.

So again, Terrence, this has been fantastic.

Thank you so much for joining us and for sharing all these details

and, and sharing your talents.

So we appreciate it.

Been a pleasure.

Thank you, Jeannie.

Thanks for listening to the six figure business mastery podcast.

If you enjoyed listening to this episode and you are ready to leverage video

marketing on all online platforms, or maybe even start your own video

podcast, then you need to check out the done for you and done with you

program at themarketingvaadvantage.

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