Digital heroes need to be both

inspired and empowered and

supported. If you can do both of

those, at least 70 percent can

be a digital hero. We can build

them.

That's Gerald Kane, a renowned

expert in the relationship

between people, technology, and

digital change. Jerry is a

Professor of Information Systems

at the Carroll School of

Management at Boston College and

has worked with companies such

as Walmart, MetLife, Caterpillar,

and Deloitte to put his insights

about digital change into action.

In 2019, he wrote a book called "

The Technology Fallacy," a must-

read exploration of how

successful companies drive

digital transformation, based on

surveys and interviews with over

20,000 executives around the

world. As you're about to hear,

Jerry is a firm believer in the

idea that digital transformation

is not a technology problem.

It's a people problem. To

create lasting change, you have

to find people with the vision

and the tenacity to push ahead.

We call these people digital

heroes. Jerry and I take a deep

dive into who they are and how

they work to drive change. This

is Daniel Saks, Co-CEO of

AppDirect, and it's time to

decode the digital hero.

Welcome to "Decoding Digital," a

podcast for innovators looking

to thrive in the digital economy.

I'm your host, Daniel Saks, and

I'll sit down with other

founders, CEOs, and changemakers

to decode the trends that are

transforming the way we work.

Let's decode. Jerry, I'm so

thrilled to have you on the show

today.

Hey, I'm thrilled to be here.

Thank you for having me.

I recently read your book, The

Technology Fallacy, and what

stood out for me was this idea.

When you digitally transform a

company, it's not just the

technology that matters. It's

also the people. We found the

same thing in our work at

AppDirect. Digital

transformation comes down to

what we call digital heroes,

people of the right

characteristics, like curiosity,

determination, vision, and

influence to drive this change.

That brings me to the first

question. How did you come up

with the idea to pursue this

line of research, and what makes

it so relevant today?

It's an idea that unfolded over

time. This book is the result of

a five-year research project

conducted in conjunction with "

MIT Sloan Management Review" and

Deloitte. I was leading up the

team from the MIT side. We knew

we wanted to look at how

technology was influencing,

how companies evolved, and was

affecting companies in the here

and now. We didn't know where

we wanted to start. We started

investigating, and we found that

this human people talent

strategy side was critically

important, and yet it was

largely overlooked in a lot of

places where you focus on the

shiny new tools of the

technology and the stuff you can

bring in and buy, and not enough

thought was going into what you

did with the technology once you

had it. How it allowed you to

do business differently? As we

pursued this over that four to

five-year timeframe, we found

that storyline to be one of the

ones that rose up as being

critically important, but under-

investigated, and this book was

the culmination of that research.

What are some of the biggest

things that surprised you when

you were researching the book?

There's all sorts of things and

my favorite ones were things

where I had a working hypothesis

going in, and in fact, I found

something completely different.

One example was that I had a

hypothesis that digitally mature

companies, and that's the scale

we used, whether a company is

digitally mature and we

categorized companies into early,

developing, and maturing. I had

this hypothesis that digitally

maturing companies would have

better leaders, and in fact,

that's not by and large, what I

found. In fact, over 50 percent

of the most mature companies

still said we need more and

better leaders to be successful

in a digital marketplace. What

was different, however, is these

digital maturing companies were

doing something about it. They

were far more likely to say we

are developing the type of

leaders we need to work in a

digital world. It's not that

these maturing companies had

better leaders, but it's what

they were doing about to get and

grow these better leaders inside.

Another great example is I had

this working hypothesis that

digitally maturing companies

would experiment more with

digital tools. In fact, that's

not what we found. Everybody

experiments. What's different is

these most mature companies,

when they do experiment and they

are successful, they then use

that success to drive change

across the organization. Early-

staged companies are likely to

experiment and they'd say, "Yay,"

pat themselves on the back, "

Aren't we great for

experimenting?" Whereas maturing

companies, once they are

successful, they use that to

drive change across the whole

organization and that's a big

difference. There are a couple

of more of those that just

jumped out as, wow, that is not

what I expected and it's not

rocket science, but it was a bit

counterintuitive findings.

I assume five years ago, or

seven years ago, when you're

conducting the initial research,

there was far less technology

adoption. Can you tell me about

the insights from the evolution

over the five years of writing

the book?

Absolutely. I'm going to break

this into two different

responses. The first was over

the five years of that research --

and we have the data to prove

this -- we definitely see a

shift to more mature companies.

Our quantitative data shows that

about a 10-point shift away from

people who say our company is in

early-stage to developing and

maturing. This fits with

anecdotal evidence. When I

first interviewed Walmart, for

instance, I was like, "What on

earth are we doing interviewing

this antiquated behemoth?

They're never going to be able

to digitally transform." Then I

talked to them and they were

doing some amazing stuff

internally so that over the five

years of the research, we

definitely saw a progress

towards greater digital

transformation, greater digital

maturity. Now I've been working

on book number two over the last

year because probably the growth

that most companies have seen

over the past year in response

to the COVID disruption, has

been more than the last 5 or 10

years put together. Put simply,

truly forced companies to

accelerate digital plans that

they wouldn't have accelerated

as aggressively. We spent the

last year interviewing another

50 executives on their digital

maturity and their digital plans,

so much in the technology

fallacy still applies to what

we've been dealing with in a

hyper-compressed accelerated

format. It was shocking to me is

the number of executives in

charge of digital transformation

that we talked to that said this

was a real opportunity for their

company. That there are these

plans they've had in place,

they've been pushing and

dragging and kicking and

screaming their companies into a

digital world, and COVID has

been that motivating factor that

has allowed them to push these

transformations through. Many

have said we've gone through 10

years of transformation in the

past year with none of the

typical people resistance that

we would normally get because

frankly, we haven't had a choice.

If there's a silver lining to

COVID, it's going to be twofold.

One is that it has moved

companies forward than they were

already behind a year ago. Now,

this has gotten them up to the

present. My hope is a lot of

digital transformation, you can

get momentum and the hardest

part is getting started. My hope

is this recognition that you can

do it and it's possible to make

these changes is going to kick

in that momentum that when we

come out of this pandemic,

whenever that may be, you're

going to see even more

innovation and more digital

experimentation because we've

proven we can do it. I'm

hopeful that not only has the

last year, but the next three to

five years are going to be some

of the most innovative we've

seen in history, in some ways,

because the opportunities there

from the technology that are

untapped at this point by

organizations are massive. I'm

hoping this is the catalyst that

gets some of these things moving

forward.

I remember in the beginning of

COVID, there was a little

multiple-choice cartoon that

went around LinkedIn, which was, "

What's the biggest driver of

digital transformation? Your CEO,

your CIO, your transformation

officer, or COVID-19.?" I was

the animist that it was COVID-19.

Check.

Check. Exactly. One of the

things though that struck me

about The Technology Fallacy is

this concept that digitally

mature companies invest in

digital leadership. One of the

things you spoke about as being

surprised was also the fact that

digital literacy is a

requirement. When you look at a

lot of traditional companies or

companies with many employees,

that can be the blocker. Can you

talk to me about that

observation, and how companies

can overcome it?

We asked one of our open-ended

questions, which was, "What are

the most important leadership

skills for leaders to have in a

digital environment?" Number one

was being forward-looking.

Number two is being change-

oriented. Number three was

having technological

understanding. The point is

when you looked into the actual

responses as far as

technological understanding, it

was more about this digital

literacy. This basic working

knowledge of how AI and machine

learning works, and why it's

important. This basic working

understanding of what blockchain

is and what opportunities that

might have for your business.

This is not people going out and

becoming AI developers. It's

making, so it's not magic. You

can make intelligent decisions

regarding it. I've often said

it's a lot easier for me to

teach the average manager, the

technology they need than it is

for me to teach the technology

leader, the management and the

strategy and the business

knowledge they need. All of

this is within the grasp, I

would say, of your average

executive. That's what

technological understanding

represented. If you think about

being forward-looking and being

change-oriented, how can you

possibly have those traits in

this world if you don't have

digital literacy. In some ways,

although digital literacy was

number three on the list, it

also incorporates all of these

other things because how do you

be forward-looking if you don't

know what the promise of AI,

machine learning, blockchain and

all this other stuff is to make

intelligent business decisions

and when the right time is to

move and invest, etc. I really

think this technological

literacy and...Gosh, technology

scares so many people, largely

because -- and this is not to do

with disservice of my co-authors,

who are all consultants --

largely because consultants like

people to be scared of these

technologies, because then they

have to hire consultants. I

would argue that most of this

stuff is not rocket science.

It's well within the grasp of

the average manager. If your

average manager has not updated

their technological knowledge,

their technological literacy in

the last five years, that

they're behind. In fact, when I

teach my students these topics,

I tell them anything I can

possibly teach you in this

classroom is going to be

obsolete in the next five years.

I'm not going to focus on

teaching you specific things.

I'm going to teach you how to

teach yourself. We're in the

golden age of learning. Whether

it's TED talks, whether it's

online learning platforms,

whether it's Twitter, all of

these things. The amount of

capability for learning out

there is just massive. What I

try to do is inspire people to

keep up with this stuff on their

own because once you get started,

it's easy to follow along and

update your knowledge as you go.

What I observed in 2009, we'd

have boards of European

countries and American companies

coming to Silicon Valley to

understand what was different.

If I were to break it down, what

was the secret source in terms

of the difference in operations?

It was this embracing of lean

startup, of agile principles, of

new frameworks like objectives

and key results. All of that had

to do with this constant

iteration. What we saw is that

majority of larger incumbent

businesses, many that you

interviewed for your book, like

a Walmart or larger industrial

manufacturing brands, they may

have been operating in the

opposite of agile. The reason's

because they wanted to protect

their product when there was a

big launch. They wanted to make

sure that they're testing things.

It might take many years to do a

secret launch. It's almost the

opposite. What I observed is

that it often started by an

innovation unit on the side that

was almost disrupting the core

business to try to compete. When

those innovation units had

success through this new

methodology, then those folks

would transfer into other

business units to try to

transform the methodologies of

those business units. In

organizations where they

actually try these tests and

those tests failed early, it

would set that company back by

several years on their

transformation roadmap. Is that

something that you saw as well?

Yeah. There's a lot to unpack

there. One is risk tolerance, is

one of those things that all

companies struggle with,

particularly large ones. You

need to have a certain amount of

tolerance for failure and risk.

That can be hard to do in a

number of different ways. You

can't just say fail early, fail

fast, fail often. Failing's

easy to do. Productively failing,

learning from that failure,

failing the right amount of time

in non-mission critical areas,

failing in the right way is a

lot more challenging than just

failing. Getting that right,

risk tolerance is really

critical. We see that's the

biggest thing that many of our

companies wrestle with. Second,

I would say that I'm a huge

proponent of agile. The

Technology Fallacy is all about

there's a lot of similarities to

Eric Ries's work and agile and

such like that. First,

disclaimer, big fan. We go

beyond that in the new book and

introduce a term called

nimbleness, which yeah, it's

related to agility. I would say

all agile is nimble but not all

nimble is agile. What we've

seen is particularly with the

right digital infrastructure, if

you have this digital

infrastructure in place, even

these massive organizations can

make extremely rapid pivots. A

great example, one that I geeked

out on...I'll give you two. One

is Hilton. Massive company. 90

percent decrease in demand as

COVID strikes. How, as a manager,

do you react to a 90 percent

drop in demand? They knew they

were going to lay people off.

Broke their hearts. How do we do

this in the right way? They

reached out to Amazons and to

the grocery stores, and to all

of these companies that had the

opposite experience where their

demand ramped up and they were

struggling to find employees.

What Hilton did was they took

their recruiting platform and

reversed it so that companies

like Amazon, grocery stores, etc.,

could post jobs for laid off

Hilton employees to apply for.

They got preferential status

because they knew these were

high quality employees and

Hilton would vouch for them. It

created this reversed pipeline

out of Hilton of its employees

into productive jobs that

allowed them to land on their

feet. When demand started coming

back the other way, these

employees were ready and eager

to return because Hilton had

treated them so well. It's

because they had this digital

infrastructure in place. They

had this digital recruiting

platform in place. They just

flipped the switch and turned it

around. That's not agile. It's

not experimental. It's not short

bursts. It's being able to move

the organization on a dime to

make this happen. I just thought

that was really interesting,

inspirational, and creative.

Another great example is Hitachi.

There's a longer name for the

actual company. Hitachi Vantara

or something like that. They had

worked on digitizing their

factories. They had all these

cameras, all these sensors to

monitor the flows of products

through the factories. COVID

shuts down, they shut down the

factories. As they start moving

back, they do a hackathon and

repurpose these sensors to be

able to do social distance

monitoring, temperature and

monitoring of employees, and

basically turn it into a social

distancing monitoring platform

that they can give feedback to

employees. It took them two

weeks to do this. They

completely repurposed their

factory sensors and their

factory infrastructure to a

socially distant environment

because they already had the

digital infrastructure in place.

Again, not agile in the way we

usually think of it as running

experiments and minimal viable

products, but very nimble and

being able to change the entire

factory on a dime. Agile, I'm

all proponent for it. Digital

platforms also enable nimbleness,

which is a little bit different

than agile, and what we've seen

is thriving in this COVID

environment where companies have

had to take major shifts.

Probably the most interesting

and inspirational thing about

the book have been all the

stories of leadership. In fact,

we have a series in the "Wall

Street Journal" doing profiles

of these leaders we've seen.

Whether it's Beam Suntory, the

premium spirits distiller and

their process of pivoting to

make hand sanitizer. It was very

inspirational. We interviewed

Invision Health, which had many

of their physicians in the New

York and New Jersey ERs, and how

they were turning basically

tablets into electronic PPE,

like iPads. They hacked them to

be able to monitor patients and

machine. Some real

inspirational stories of

creative leadership, and we have

lived through one of the most

inspirational periods of

business leadership that I've

seen in my lifetime. It's been

exciting to be on the frontlines

to be a part of that. I like

your term digital heroes because

that's exactly what I would

refer to all these people, is

how do you think outside the box

to be able to address these

unprecedented challenges that

your company is dealing with.

It's powerful. We had a couple

of customers, one being

Honeywell, obviously a large PPE

player. They pivoted their

digital marketplace in a matter

of weeks in order to transform

to adopt PPE. We also had

Vodafone on a global basis,

leverage our platform to launch

in a marketplace for emergency

workers in order to be able to

deliver technologies that they

needed in an essential way. You

see how critical people

providing our technology

merchants are to this current

economy, and they're really the

lifeblood, helping businesses.

Going back to your Hilton

example, does it take CEO to

shift the whole company, or can

any leader within the business

drive nimble transformation?

Now we're getting back into

agile. It's a both end. It's

going to be tough to do if you

don't have senior leadership

support, because those take bold

decisions, and the leaders who

are making the decision needs to

know the C suite backs their

play and supports them and

encourages them to make this

decision. At the same time, it

can't just be the CEO. They

don't have enough bandwidth.

They don't have enough

visibility into the company.

It's really about pushing

leadership down into the

organization and empowering

lower-level leaders to make the

types of bold decisions that

they need to make. At the same

time, it's about -- this is

another interesting thing that

our data showed -- whom we asked

who were more likely to be the

inhibitors of change. It tended

to be middle management, because

they were, at least, according

to our data, but it's backed up

anecdotally, as well. Senior

leadership was willing to push

decision making down into the

organization. More middle level

managers were less willing to

step up and make these decisions

because it comes with a level of

risk that they're not

necessarily experienced with, or

they're not necessarily

comfortable with. I just

finished the book "Team of Teams"

by Stanley McChrystal, which is

I think a great leadership book.

He talks about, as a senior

leader, the gardening metaphor

of leadership. You can't just

force it. You can't just make it

happen. You have to cultivate

the environment, where these

leaders can grow and learn to

make these bold decisions that

are mission critical. His point

when fighting ISIS was by the

time, we got up to him to

approve something, the situation

had already unfolded so fast.

As we move into a digital world,

where speed of decision making

is critically important that the

ability to push leadership down

and inspire lower-level middle

managers to step up and make the

bold decisions that they need to

make is really a strong

competency. Now, digital

platforms help this because they

provide data. They provide the

ability to communicate, etc.,

but if you don't have that

culture of risk tolerance and

that culture of supporting those

decision-making, those leaders

can't step up. It's really

incumbent on the C suite leaders

to create the environment, to

garden, to cultivate that

environment where leaderships

are empowered and able to act,

that it's the responsibility of

the lower-level leaders to step

up, so it's really that both end.

What have you observed in

organizations, how they can

minimize the dependency on one,

let's say, technology forward

person, and how can they get

better at ensuring that if

they're putting people in

transformational roles that

those people are pre trained to

embrace technology?

I'll answer, but I'm going to

ask back to you first. Your

concept of digital heroes, do

you see them as being born or

made? Can you teach digital

heroness to people?

What I would say is that anyone

can be a digital hero, but not

everyone can be a digital hero.

What I mean by that is that in

order to be a digital hero you

need to have the motivation to

be able to learn. Going back to

your student example of saying, "

I can't teach you today's

concepts because they're gonna

be obsolete in a few years but I

can teach you how to figure it

out." That's what I've found is

that these digital heroes have

this passion they have this

exploratory area. Most of the

transformation, frankly, is not

about their business life it's

about them transforming

themselves, breaking through

their fears, thinking about

their peak performance to be

able to keep this passion and

maintain. I totally believe that

anyone can be a digital hero.

If you're not willing to learn

the characteristics and put in

the time -- and frankly, it's a

lot of time -- not everyone will

be a digital hero. What do you

think?

I, 100 percent agree, and I'll

put it into this framework.

There's a lot of research

backing this up, which I won't

bore you with here, but we

covered some of it in The

Technology Fallacy. I would

argue that there are three types

of people in most organizations.

I'll use your terms of digital

hero because that's what we're

talking about. First, there are

people that are always going to

be digital heroes, and that's

about 30 percent. These people

are wired to think outside the

box. They're wired to be

entrepreneurial. They're going

to be a pain in the ass if you

don't put them in a role because

they're going to be seeking to

do this. You're going to have

30 percent of the people that

will never be digital heroes.

That are always going to play it

safe, that they want the

checkboxes and the rules. They

want stability. They want their

paycheck. They don't want any

surprises. There's 40 percent in

the middle that can go either

way and are going to respond to

the culture and respond to the

signals from senior leadership.

The challenge there is that 40

percent. If you can convert that

40 percent to digital heroness,

you're well on your way to

digital maturity. If you

discouraged that 40 percent,

you're never going to be able to

do enough. It's about getting

the right culture in place where

those people who are, how shall

we say, reluctant digital heroes

can step forward and be

recognized, have the opportunity

to continue to develop their

skill set. Our research

basically says that 90 percent

of people say they need to

update their skill set at least

yearly. 45 percent say they need

to update it continually. Yet,

when asked, to what extent is

your organization providing you

the opportunities to develop

your skills, it never gets above

50 percent in the most advanced

industries, and it hovers right

around 33 percent. Most

companies are not giving their

employees the right

opportunities to continue to

develop those skill sets. You

need to inspire those reluctant

digital heroes and then give

them the tools to develop the

skills so they can be that way.

Now, keep in mind, there may be

some response bias in our study

because we're doing it through

MIT, so we got more

technologically savvy people.

Most people report they want to

work for digitally maturing

companies or a digital leader.

Most people report that they are

willing to leave their company.

30 percent said I would plan to

leave in a year if I'm working

for an early-stage company. Yet,

if you begin to offer them the

opportunities to develop their

skill sets, that number drops

back almost to no different

whatsoever. It becomes 15 times

less likely to want to leave

their organization if they're

provided the opportunity to grow

their skill set because

everybody knows the world is

changing. Everybody knows

digital is transforming

industries, and people want to

be in a position where they can

continue to develop their

skillset where they can be at

least 70 percent digital heroes

at least to some form or fashion.

It's about unleashing those

people and then supporting them,

so they can get the skills they

need to work effectively in a

digital world. Again, going

back to the silver lining of

COVID, we've seen a rapid uptick

in people learning digital

skills. I work with a company

called Skillsoft, and they saw

300 percent increase in the use

of their platform. My son in

seventh grade has picked up

Python in the downturn instead

of playing Xbox because he

wanted to do something

productive. I do think, at

least, huge portion of it,

digital heroes need to be both

inspired and empowered and

supported. If you can do both of

those, at least 70 percent can

be a digital hero. We can build

them.

Powerful. One other thought on

digital heroes. I recently

interviewed the co-founder of

Square, and his co-founder is

Jack Dorsey, in my mind, one of

the preeminent heroes in the

tech space.

Absolutely.

You have Elon Musk, and we have

a culture where media puts these

heroes on a pedestal. Jim's

feedback was the concept of the

hero is a fallacy in its own

right because everyone's human.

He works with Jack. Jack has

issues, just like everyone else

does. However, Jim's perspective,

which was interesting was, "Look,

I've met some of the world's

most successful people and

they're human just like us." How

do you respond to that?

One of the classes I teach at

Boston College is called Tech

Track. I teach my students for

six weeks and then we take them

for either week in San Francisco

or four days in New York to tour

tech startups. Obviously, we're

doing things a little

differently now, but it's been

good with Zooms with

entrepreneurs, and I was at

Square. One of my students

asked, "How does Jack lead two

companies? How do you be CEO for

Square and Twitter?" The

response was, he has amazing

lieutenants. That Jack is great,

but also that next tier of

leadership is also amazing and

empowered, and that goes all the

way down. The more you can

empower that next level of

leadership, the more the senior

folks look better. Jack wouldn't

be Jack if it weren't for the

people at Square stepping up and

taking more active leadership

roles, and frankly, Jack being

OK with that. Then you have

different ones. Steve Jobs was

notoriously a very different

leader, and Apple is a very

different kind of tech company.

I'm not saying you can't lead

that way, but you have to find

the right way to empower your

organization. There may be very

different ways of doing that.

Finding ways to inspire and

empower that next level of

leadership is essential for

digital heroness. I would go so

far to say is the real digital

heroes are the ones that do

create those environments where

people can step up, learn, and

lead.

What a great conversation.

Appreciate your passion and your

insights. I feel in some ways

you're preaching. I figured

before we wrap up, I want to let

you share how you got where you

are today, and I know used to be

in a different profession. You

were a minister.

Yes.

How did you go from being a

minister to being a professor?

It's a good question. There are

different ways I can tell this

story that are more sensational

or not. Basically, for 10 years

I was a United Methodist

minister at a large church in

Atlanta, really loved my time

there and made lifelong friends.

I was able to be with people

both highs and lows in their

lives. It was a great community

and a great experience. I

always wanted to be a college

professor and many of the same

skills apply. You're working

with people. I had a large

educational role in that. In

fact, some of the people, it was

an affluent area of Atlanta, and

many of the parishioners there

were college professors that I

still work with and keep in

touch with. It was one of those

things where I've always had a

passion for learning new things.

I've always had a passion for

investigating emerging phenomena,

and I've always been a bit of a

tech geek. I started in

something called Quantum Link in

1986, I believe, for the

Commodore 64 when Quantum Link

became a little company called

America Online later which drove

Internet 1.. I've always had a

passion for that, and I decided

it was a much easier transition.

Frankly, that background of

preaching and working with

people has informed how I

approached this problem. I do

see it as a fundamentally people-

oriented problem and getting the

people inspired and engaged and

changing their mindsets. OK,

you're going to get me preaching

again. In some ways, digital

transformation is a lot like

evangelism because you're trying

to convince people of a world

that doesn't quite yet exist,

but you believe can come to be.

In preaching, you're doing it

for the afterlife or what can be

after, but here you're saying

this future is attainable by us,

and you have to inspire them. I

do get preaching at times

because I fundamentally do

believe that when managed well,

technology can be a force for

good. It can be a force for

equity. It can be a force for

more just society, and can drive

real business value, drives me

crazy. Ultimately, what drives

me crazy about the church a lot

of times and in a lot of

traditional organizations, it

can be run so much more

efficiently. There's so

many things that don't need to

be done and this is any

corporation. That's one of my

pet peeves. It's like, "If we

can do it better, let's do it

better." I've loved my time in

the church, and I love even more

of my time as a college

professor because I get to work

with amazing young students,

amazing MBA students, cutting-

edge executives that are doing

really cool things. I get to

put them in touch with each

other. I get to tell their

stories. I get to engage in a

lifetime of learning, which I

have a ball with. I love being

on this journey wherever it's

going to take me.

I'm so inspired by your passion.

You can feel it on the other

side of the mic. Appreciate you

taking the time, Jerry, as

always. I hope to get the chance

to collaborate in the future and

dig deeper on what leadership

means and how to inspire the

next generation of digital

heroes.

Absolutely. Thank you for the

time.

Thank you, Jerry. Take care.

Bye-bye.

On the next episode of Decoding

Digital.

It's not about the speculation

and that price speculation of

where's the price of Bitcoin

going. It's about how do we use

these technologies to solve real

problems for real customers. To

the extent that is delivering

utility, and there is value in

those underlying technologies

and underlying assets.

CEO of Ripple and former exec at

Yahoo and AOL, Brad Garlinghouse.

Thanks for listening to Decoding

Digital. Make sure you never

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visit decodingdigital.com. Until