00:00:00 Sana: There's this question that, um, quietly follows many entrepreneurs. If I build the business that I dreamt of, will it actually make me happy? Because I believe listeners, the truth is most people don't talk about something like this. You can achieve everything you thought you wanted the business, the income, the recognition, and still wake up one day feeling strangely disconnected from your life. And it's not because that you are ungrateful, not because you didn't work hard enough or not because you are incapable, but because somewhere along the way, joy stopped being part of the equation. And that's where our conversation listeners, today's conversation on this blend begins.

00:00:59 Sana: So welcome back everyone. I am your host and you are tuning in to another very interesting and beautiful episode of the podcast. And today's guest, well, she brings more than twenty five years of business experience and over fifty years of life perspective. After doing what many entrepreneurs do, investing in masterminds, coaching books, and endless hard work, she reached a point that many high achievers quietly recognize success on paper, burnout in reality. And that realization led her to something deeper. Not another strategy, not another framework or system, but a reconnection with joy itself. And out of that journey, listeners, came the Joy experiment, which is a philosophy about building life and business, not around pressure and productivity, but around alignment values and the energy that actually sustains us. So today we are exploring a question that might might sound simple, but honestly, it's actually quite radical radical in modern entrepreneurship. What would it look like to build your business with joy at the center? And listeners, to help me unpack the answer to this question, I have Roberta Rivera. Roberta, welcome to the show. And I'm really, really happy that you are here with us.

00:02:36 Roberta Ravella : Thank you. I'm happy to be here with you.

00:02:39 Sana: Uh, Roberta, quite a, quite an interesting journey in there. and, uh, the way I started the introduction, I mean, for me as well, I mean, I have had so many conversations where, uh, with, with guests, uh, focusing on not just the, the business part of the business, uh, the numbers and the profits and the revenue. but the human side of the business and entrepreneurship. And, uh, the kind of the sad part is that we kind of, we are aware about it, but then. The system or the expectations are built in such a way that we often have have to make a choice or. Maybe a sacrifice in order to achieve that dream. That's kind of the gamble, you know, sometimes. That I'm playing, I'm putting everything at risk and I'm putting everything in building my company or my brand in there. So, uh, with that, you mentioned something that I think many of them will relate to many of the entrepreneurs having everything. You worked so hard, yet still feeling disconnected from joy. So what for you, what were the early signs that something in your life or business was out of alignment?

00:03:57 Roberta Ravella : The earlier. The earliest signs were, um, that a lot of things that had worked for me had stopped working and I was searching for a different strategy. Like there must be some other way to go about this. I'm going to do Facebook ads instead of cold calling. I'm going to, you know, come in an hour earlier, an hour later, or I'm going to read this book instead of that book. I'm going to change from sales forward to marketing forward. So I would push different strategies and learn different strategies because I thought, well, if I just knew how to do this right, then it wouldn't, it wouldn't be so hard. It wouldn't feel so icky or it wouldn't feel like I was always making myself, always motivating myself. So I had oscillated between what I must be, you know, lazy and not a good a person as the other people around me for whom it seems like everything works for them or I have the wrong strategy. So which is it? And I would bounce back and forth between the two until finally it was like, you know what? If I had to look around at everything that I had created in, in my business? Um, and then I, I took everything down and created it again a second time. And it's still because I was not optimizing for joy. And in that I don't mean, um, looking for my business to create joy for me. I mean, I wasn't joyful myself. It's like money, you know, you hear the conversations about money. Um, a jerk without money is a jerk with money. Somebody who's not happy without money is somebody who's not happy with money. It's, it's the same with being, um, being joyful in yourself, which comes from being connected to yourself. And what I had learned, um, early on, especially as a woman. Um, you really need to connect disconnect from yourself in a lot of ways in modern business to be acceptable to many other people around you. And I don't mean that, that they're trying to be mean to you or even marginalize you as much as it's just what we consider normal. We're taught not to care how we feel. We're taught that who we are isn't important. The only people who get to stay connected to themselves are the ones who have some extreme accomplishment. And interestingly enough, many of them have disconnected to themselves, disconnected from themselves to get to that extreme accomplishment. Right? Um, we, we don't have that many good examples of healthy business, um, creation or business owners. And so you look around you and you're like, well, I'm doing what everybody else is doing and I'm getting the results that I'm supposed to be getting, but I don't like how I feel. So my options seem to either find another strategy or numb out or both. And all of the above was celebrated. So it just came to a point where I'm like, I really don't want to do this anymore. This way. Um, and so is it even possible to do it another way? And so I just, I decided to start exploring things from that direction. Um, and I, and I did find a different business coach and what she helped me see. Um, and bring me to is what the beliefs that I had, that I was holding on to that made creating a business enjoy and being successful on my own terms. Staying connected to myself. I didn't believe it was possible for me. Maybe for someone else, but not for me. And so when we went through and removed all those beliefs and really dug in there, and I went on a healing journey as, as you would say. And some people say it's not necessary. Maybe it's not for them, but it was for me. Um, because I had so many things and so many emotions, so many stories that needed to be handled. And I think in entrepreneurship, a lot of times we see people who haven't handled their business internally. And the reason they've disconnected from themselves. And so that's why you have someone who's unhappy without money and someone who's unhappy with it, somebody unhappy without success, and somebody who's unhappy with it, because we haven't come to the source of our unhappiness, which is ourselves.

00:08:33 Sana: Love that. Love that. I think this entire line, it perfectly sums up, uh, the answer to this. You know, never ending quest of understanding that, you know, or, or this dilemma that if I want money, I have to sacrifice my self. If I don't want money, then I'm just a failure. You know, this is going to be especially for women. Yes. I mean, it's a different, um, kind of challenge altogether because, um, not only we are just trying to match up to the level of those expectations in the entrepreneurial world, but we are trying to kind of surpass it because, you know, we have to, we have to climb through so many walls and hurdles and then.

00:09:18 Roberta Ravella : Yes.

00:09:19 Sana: We have to. I mean, it's like you have to be extraordinary to be, you know, part of just the, the normal ones in the business world, in entrepreneurship world.

00:09:29 Roberta Ravella : Right? You know, what I love is seeing how many women now are like, I'm out. I'm just going to go over here and create my own thing because I will not stay in your world where I'm required to be disconnected and not belong to myself to be successful. So I'll see you over, over here. And interestingly enough, where you see it is in the music and the movie industry in the US. Anyway, I'm not seeing it so much in entrepreneurship. Maybe there's a few examples. Um, I would say the lady who founded makeup, I t um, in the US, um, and then Sara Blakely, who did Spanx, you see people like Oprah Winfrey. Um, she said, I'm not, I can't play by your rules anymore. I'll be over here. And then, um, Queen Latifah did it. Um, and. Oh, gosh, her name just fell out of my head. I'll think of it. And Reese Witherspoon, she did too. She's like, you know what? I'm going to make my own because you guys are saying I have to do this and I'm not doing it. And I think as women sometimes that's that is like, I don't want to say the risk we have to take or the challenge we have to meet. That's what we get to do. And when you're open to the possibility and, and it's not the whole, I don't need anybody else. I don't need men. Men are bad or other people. It's not a thick. It's more of if I'm going to stay connected to myself and do this the way that's going to create happiness in my life or not create it like I'm creating my own joy, my own happiness. And this is the product of it is this business that I'm creating. You may have to the risk may be saying the norm doesn't work for me.

00:11:14 Sana: Exactly.

00:11:15 Roberta Ravella : Now there are some of us. It's not an option at times, right? Because we're not there yet financially or, or, um, we need, you know, we just need something different. Not everyone's an entrepreneur and that's great. You know, it takes all kinds to make the world go round is what we say. But to find in your own self, okay, if I'm in a job or if I'm in a situation where I'm required to disconnect from myself to be successful, maybe you stay for as long as you need to, but you know, you need to find a different situation. I heard a guy. His name's Joe. He's from Art of accomplishment. He. He coached this person. I thought this was amazing because she was struggling where she was at work. She's like, I can't be myself here, and I don't know what to do. And I'm having these problems. And he's like, do this. Go to your work, go to work, show up as yourself. He's like, I'm not telling you to be a jerk. Like, be yourself. And if you can stay, stay. And if you can't, they'll fire you and you'll go find another job. And she was like, interesting. Like not even considering the possibility, right? Like, I want to show up as myself. And if it works, great. And if it doesn't, there's some other place open.

00:12:31 Speaker 3: Okay. Yeah, yeah.

00:12:34 Sana: I think sometimes we kind.

00:12:36 Roberta Ravella : Of is we're told where they're not, right. They say, oh, Sana, you go ahead and do that. See if you get another job. And we believe it and it scares us. And so we stay disconnected.

00:12:49 Speaker 3: True. True. Yeah.

00:12:51 Sana: I think we. I mean, it's it cannot be just black and white. It's, it's such a, such a layered, layered, uh, you know, way. And, and that is why I think so many people, um, like as you, as you summarized perfectly in the beginning that, you know, so many people, either with or without money, you are this with money, you are this. What, what exactly? Because we don't do not know that source of, you know, joy in there. And another question that comes to my mind, um, Roberta, is, uh, now people, when they hear about joy, happiness, um, fulfillment, bliss, they have this kind of trigger within them that, uh, either you just lay back, you get, you get that laid back attitude. You relax, be calm, do something which is just minimal thing and you'll be happy. No need to be super ambitious or very much strong or aggressive. Um, you know, that's a kind of very, um, uh, singular, uh, way to portray this. So if somebody wants to understand the exact meaning of joy in here, I'm not even using the word happy in there. Uh, because, you know, life is not always, you know, a bed of roses. Yeah. Right, right. Wants to understand joy from this perspective. And then someone is understanding that as a founder or an entrepreneur, how exactly do you define that?

00:14:22 Speaker 3: Mhm.

00:14:25 Roberta Ravella : Um, I will describe it as the feeling you have when you are connected to yourself. So it's, it's a difference of knowing internally that I am worthy, that I have love and belonging and that I'm safe in the world. That brings joy to me. As if, um, as if I am a child or as if as, as if those things are very true. Um, how can I describe it better? Like, if you think of a child who's playing or busy with something that they really love and they don't know yet, all the things that we get in our heads, right? They don't, they're not thinking about being graded. They're not thinking, am I okay? Do I look okay? AM I safe? All those things aren't in them yet. And just the general joy and fun and allowing they have in themselves doing whatever it is they're doing. And if you can remember that feeling from yourself for yourself from childhood, and it's not like this grand euphoria or huge excitement, it's like almost like a peace inside of you that makes everything okay. This is all right. And then, you know, I mean, some people will never be happy if they're not moving, achieving, going. Other people are happy, you know, floating down the river. It's it's we all get to be where we want to at that time in our lives as well. It's that permission to say, okay, right now for me, I want to start this business and I'm going to be aggressive with it. And I love it. This is so much fun. And then later saying, okay, now it's time for me to sit back a little bit. Now it's time for me to, you know, like life has its ebb and flows. We have seasons and cycles for a reason. Um, and I think that's when you see that, um, black and white thinking where things are either or it's generally someone trying to push you one way or the other. They either want you to be ambitious and hard driven because it makes them feel better. Or I often found they were earning money off me when I was ambitious in German. So they needed me to be ambitious and driven, or in the opposite. They would feel better about themselves if you didn't want to do anything, if you thought the whole world sucked right along with them, right? Usually those extremes are born out of some sort of discontentment. And when we find that connection to ourselves and can see, this is what I really like doing, I am enjoying this work or this business building or whatever season of life it is. Things progress naturally. Our, our, our cycles are natural. We see. I tell people all the time, you don't get mad at the trees when they lose all their leaves. It's normal. It's natural. These things happen right to the trees every year. It's a cycle. But we get mad at ourselves when we go through any sort of cycle that's not up. And we tell ourselves, there's something wrong with me because I'm not going up, up, up, up all the time. It's like, no, everything around us is a cycle.

00:17:35 Speaker 3: That is. It is.

00:17:38 Sana: And I think that's why these cycles are, uh, are there to help us. Have some very important fundamental lessons of, of life because, uh, we, we get to. See both the extremes in there. And I think, uh, presence and awareness help us get that clarity in. There. And out of that clarity, I think that's where we get on to the path of seeking joy. In business, in entrepreneurship and personal life as well.

00:18:13 Roberta Ravella : Yes. Yeah. Joyful person makes for a joyful journey. Makes for a joyful life. Makes for a joyful business. So it's, it's internal. And if you look at. A lot of the problems that people have in business, if I look back at myself, like, why wasn't I motivated? I was motivated because I wasn't, I was so disconnected. I was constantly having to push myself and force myself going against my nature. Okay, so if you find yourself in a place, you're like, I'm just not motivated. Find out why I'm always procrastinating. Ask yourself why it's okay. Like to say, you know, I have the money that I thought I would have and I'm not happy. Why? These are the awareness questions that if we sit quietly with ourselves, you'll you'll hear the answer.

00:19:06 Speaker 3: Yeah. And I think.

00:19:07 Sana: Honestly, I mean, it can be I mean, I know that it can be very challenging to sit quietly, you know, especially in this modern day and age where you have so much going on. I mean, honestly, like, if I, if I just want to sit for ten minutes without looking at my phone, without any noise, without any any one around, just quiet, I would go mad. Even thinking about it, I would go mad. So it can be pretty, pretty hard. But then, um, I, I've, I've actually interviewed a lot of guests, you know, who are actually trying to seek joy through different, different activities in their, I mean, Robert, I mean, I, I wasn't even aware about it, like through, uh, pottery through, um, you know, creating different art forms or a word through singing, through music, through dancing. They're trying to seek that joy, that inner joy.

00:20:04 Roberta Ravella : But connecting to your creative self. Many of us have disconnected from our creative selves for, for reasons, you know, um, when I was, oh, gosh, I don't remember probably in high school, it was like, okay, this is the last time you're going to take art class because it's time to get serious. No art class in college can't make money that way. You know, whatever. Um, one of my, my friends tells me she remembers someone telling her she was terrible at drawing and she should just stop. And so she did. Right? You know, there's a point where you're like, you look silly dancing. It's time to stop. You can't sing that well, you know, let whoever's on the radio sing. But when we I think it's such a great place to start. And I'm glad that you brought that up. So when we reconnect to our creative self just for ourself, because I love to dance and sing, I'm not good at either of them, but it doesn't matter because I'm only doing it for myself. I love to to paint watercolors. I'm not very good at it. It doesn't matter. I'm only doing it for myself.

00:21:08 Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:21:08 Roberta Ravella : And so that is such a nice. I'm so glad you brought that up. That is such a good way to reconnect with yourself. And then it brings an inner quietness because it's, it's hard to worry when you're dancing and singing for yourself. I know you start thinking about how do I look and is anybody going to see, you know, and and you can lose yourself.

00:21:33 Speaker 3: Yes, that's for sure.

00:21:36 Sana: And it really creates that spark within you. Even thinking about it because and how beautiful. I mean, look at how beautiful it connects with that childlike feeling of joy and happiness that I don't care about what other people are saying. I'm just, you know, feeling happy. I'm feeling joy in doing this.

00:21:54 Roberta Ravella : Yeah. And the amazing thing for me, when I started reconnecting with my creative self, my, I write a lot for, um, the job I, the business I had before and I write a lot now. My writing got so much better and so much clearer and it would just snap like, oh, you know, I'm, I'm painting on paper and it's like, oh, hold on. I run over to my laptop and just write something that I've been trying to write for a week because you give yourself that openness. So like, so it can come.

00:22:32 Speaker 3: That's right. That's right.

00:22:34 Sana: Oh, and I know we have time constraints, but if you can just give like a quick glimpse of the joy experiment, and also if our listeners, they would like to explore more about it, connect with you. What would be the best way?

00:22:48 Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:22:48 Roberta Ravella : Yes. Um, so for, for the joy experiment, I, I named it experiment for a reason. Experiments are just that. Will this work? I don't know. I want to find out. I'm going to ask a question based on an assumption that I have. And I'm going to go down that path until I can see it's it's curious. It's not um pass fail. It's not you succeeded. You failed. It's I'm having an experiment here. Um, and experiments are planned out there thought out. We, we take pride in something like that. Right? It's not just a throwaway statement, but it takes you off that constant hook of performance. So that's what I'd love for people to understand. If you want to create joy in your life and business, to take themselves off that cycle of performance and reconnecting with creative self is a great way to do that. So if they want to find me, I am at the joy experiment dot l I v e is my website. You can find my socials there, my newsletter and there's a free assessment to see if you're living in your values or someone else's.

00:23:59 Sana: Great, great. Thank you for sharing that. And I would, I would invite all of our listeners to go and explore the Joy experiment. And I would also invite everyone to connect with Roberta and, uh, listeners. I mean, you know, this was such, this was that conversation where I realized that, um, it's, yeah, I mean, it is important success. It is important. Ambitions are important. Your dreams are important. They do matter, but then they just don't. Alone guarantee fulfillment. We can build a business that we dreamt of. We can still feel disconnected if it is not rooted in something authentic. So joy isn't about pretending that everything is easy. You are happy. Everything is good. It's all going great. It's about building from a piece, from a place that actually sustains you emotionally, mentally, and energetically. So, Roberta, thank you so much. This was such a joyful, joyful conversation.

00:25:02 Roberta Ravella : Thank you for having me, I enjoyed it.

00:25:05 Speaker 3: Super.

00:25:06 Sana: And listeners, thank you so much for joining this conversation on this blend. And if this episode made you pause, reflect, maybe think about or see your own journey differently, make sure that you follow this blend. Until next time. This is your host Sana signing off. Take care.