Speaker: 00:00:05

Hi, I'm Leila Ainge, psychologist and researcher.

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Welcome back to Psychologically Speaking.

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This is a podcast all about human behavior, bringing together fascinating research

insights and real life experiences.

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You're joining me and my guest Emma on the goal experiments.

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We're recording everyone's goals for 2026 and we're going to follow them as they achieve

those goals.

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Emma Thomas is a coach, trainer, facilitator and podcast host.

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She's been working with organizations of all sizes that care about ensuring their female

and LGBTQ plus colleagues thrive through all stages of life.

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She passionately believes that no one navigating perimenopause should feel like they have

to step back, step down or hide their symptoms.

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Managing the menopause clients include Oxfordshire County Council, Dell, Unilever, Taylor

& Francis, John Wiley & Sons and CABI.

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Emma, welcome to the Psychologically Speaking podcast.

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It's great to have you here.

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Thank you Leila it's lovely to be back.

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All the best people come back for a second bite, So this season, I'm asking my guests

about their 2026 goals, and I've been really excited to have you on.

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you have had one of the most interesting years.

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You've launched something new You've got a long standing podcast.

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You're already doing loads of things and part of me thinking, what is your goal for next

year?

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So do you want to share with us what it is that you're planning to do?

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So for me, I feel like 2026 is a year where I need to make some fairly big changes.

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And I was trying to figure out what sort of word might kind of encapsulate that because I

think it's a combination of simplifying some things.

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consolidating other things, really sort of laying some good business foundations in terms

of kind of things like websites and systems.

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uh And I'm really trying to nail some clarity as well.

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So you've talked about the fact that I'm doing quite a few different things and actually

at the moment, so managing the menopause is the sort of the one company that I run and the

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triple shift is my coaching practice.

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For me, think 2025 has been quite a transitional year where I've started my coaching

practice, I've done some other new things, I've I say, continued with the podcast and

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that's kind of continued to change and morph a little bit as well.

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So I feel like 2026 needs to be the year where I kind of bring it all together.

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I don't know if anyone's got one of these cupboards under the stairs like mine where

literally you just shove stuff in it until it's such a mess that you're like, right,

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everyone stand we're gonna take everything out, we're gonna decide what we don't like,

what we don't need anymore, we're gonna take that to the charity shop, we're gonna get

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some, you know, we're gonna organize the boxes, we're gonna have a good clear out, we're

gonna get the Hoover in.

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and make it all really nice.

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And then at the end of that, you know, it's a painful process, but at the end of it, you

kind of stand back a bit and think, ah, yes, okay, I have restored some order to one tiny

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corner of my life.

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So I feel like it's quite an amorphous goal, probably not very sort of, you know, if we're

talking about smart, you know, measurable things, it's not particularly easy to get a

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handle on.

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but I feel like that's the thing that needs to happen in order for me to kind of really

have the kind of sort of productive and successful year that I want to have.

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the next step is working back from that and thinking, okay, what are all of the things

that need to happen in the cupboard of doom in order for me to say, I have achieved that

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kind of, know, that.

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that clarity and that sort of consolidation and those good foundations.

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that's the next part is figuring out the, figured out the what, now I just need to figure

out the how and then do it.

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that visual that you've given us of that bursting at the seams drawer.

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It just made me smile inside because I think that is so relatable and I think anyone

listening to this, especially if they're listening in January, is going to go, yes, my

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house resembles that space because It doesn't matter how organised we are

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We collect stuff, don't we?

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It's that sort of tendency to think I'll deal with that later when I've got time.

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And if you're busy, there's never going to be time unless you make time.

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there's also a third thing that you've been doing this year which is holding up the sky.

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Do want to just explain a little bit what holding up the sky is?

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Yeah, so again, it's been a bit of an experiment really, and I'm not too sure where it's

going.

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So it's a community platform for women in midlife who are in that sort of crunchy bit of,

you know, being stuck between elderly parents, children that still need us.

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probably some kind of fairly demanding work stuff going on, maybe some kind of midlife

health niggles, whether that's kind of perimenopausal related or not.

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And sometimes it's, it's hard to know.

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We're probably supporting, you know, friends going through tricky times.

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We might be supporting our kind of younger people if they're either sort of bird launching

off to university or, you know, maybe they're boomeranging back again when they're, you

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know, I've got other friends who've got, you know.

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Children have finished university, they've come back, they're still kind of trying to

figure it out.

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It's a really tricky, tricky time where, know, increasingly I think children are in and

out of our lives for a lot longer than traditionally they might have been.

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You know, I think certainly there was more of a sense when I went off to uni of like,

okay, you're 18 and you kind of, go off and then that's, you know, you're on that kind of

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trajectory, hopefully, to kind of, you know.

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uni, graduate, first job, and so on and so forth.

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Whereas I think it's so much more complex now for our kind of younger people who, you

know, there's all of this uncertainty, there's all of that additional difficulty in terms

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of, you know, finding jobs, given the impact of AI on workplaces and kind of graduate

level jobs and getting on the housing ladder.

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So yeah, I think there's just sort of this expanding space where

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People need so much of us and often at a time where actually we're finding ourselves quite

depleted and it's hard to find time for ourselves in amongst all of that, those kind of

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competing demands on our kind of time and our energies.

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So you launched the platform in September.

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You've had your podcast for how many years now?

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It's five in January, technically.

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I can't decide.

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I recorded the first one five years ago November, but it didn't come out until the

January.

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technically January.

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What a milestone.

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I mean, I think there's a statistic out there that most podcasts don't get past season

one.

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that's phenomenal.

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Well done, you.

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And then you also have obviously managing the menopause and the consultancy work that you

do directly with businesses like Dell and Unilever, et cetera.

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So you talked about potentially stepping back and unraveling and kind of thinking what.

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this impression of you know you're an umbrella and there's a couple of things underneath

there so you've developed three distinct almost brands would that be fair to say?

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Yeah, and I think that's quite a challenge then to, you know, I keep coming back to this

word wrangle, sort of wrangle things into some sensible kind of place where I don't have

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to sort of necessarily let go of any of those things, but there's a kind of a coherent

home for things together because I think, you know, people might find me through the

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podcast, but then be interested in.

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some of the other things that I'm doing or vice versa.

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actually kind of being able to kind of nestle all of those things together in one place

instead of having them quite separate.

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Well, I'm thinking about separate websites, which anyway in and of itself is kind of extra

work.

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So I feel like I've not necessarily, I haven't made my life easier, shall we say, but in

my enthusiasm, as is my kind of, as is my want, you know, I have an idea, I jump on it, I

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do it.

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And then later.

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you kind of think, well, maybe that wasn't necessarily the most strategic way to do it in

terms of kind of setting up different homes for things.

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I don't know.

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I'm not an expert.

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it's quite curious that you've created separate homes for these things and almost there's

obviously a link and em a connection.

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They feel like they're part of the same family, your Emma Thomas brand, if you like.

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Are they so different or similar?

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Talk that through with me.

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How do they feel they fit together for you?

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I mean, I guess the, you know, they're different sides of me, of my interests.

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think I'm, you know, very, have very kind of broad interests and they inform one another

in a way.

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without the podcast, I wouldn't be doing the work that I'm doing in the menopause space.

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Yeah.

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A lot of what I'm interested about in the menopause space uh is, you know, workplace

related and how can we kind of build cultures and systems that support people.

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that's the kind of the tie to, back to coaching, I suppose, in terms of, you know, it's

workplace coaching.

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It's not life coaching or specifically kind of what you might, some people might call

menopause coaching.

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you know, it's...

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Yeah, I guess sort of thinking about them as points of a triangle, that they are

interconnected.

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um But yeah, I guess it's trying to figure out how I talk about all of that in a way that

makes sense for people who might be new to my work, meeting me for the first time.

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in a way that makes sense.

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if we take your visual metaphor of the cupboard under the stairs a shelf, I'm visualizing

it.

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I've been to your house, And I just want to describe to people because you actually have,

and it's quite curious that you're describing this because you have quite a minimalist

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you moved abroad at one point and you sold a lot of stuff and then when you came back and

where you live now I remember when I visited with my husband you know you have a space

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where you it's not abundance of stuff and clutter it's just it felt very curated you've

got the things that you need etc so it's really curious that you're feeling the weight of

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this stuff under the

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under the stairs if you like or in the cupboard.

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Yeah, I mean, it's not a big house for four people.

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It's not tiny, but I think that's the way that we make it work is to have as little

extraneous stuff as possible.

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mean, if you've got children, they're all, they just see stuffed breeds, right?

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They kind of shoot, and the bigger they get, the bigger the shoes get, they're like

tripping over them.

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oh But I think, yeah, I think for us, it was a very kind of conscious decision to do that

kind of smaller space living to kind of keep our costs low, to not kind of stretch

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ourselves and kind of keep thinking, you know, we want, we need somewhere bigger, we need

somewhere bigger.

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I think it was like, we want to make this space work for us.

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And yeah, you're right.

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I think that was, you know, going, living in...

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Denmark where there's obviously a very sort of minimal Scandi look to things that

definitely had a big impact on how we kind of, when we came back, how we chose to sort of

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set up our living space.

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So, you know, I don't want anyone to think I'm a paragon of tidiness and cleanliness

because I'm not, but I guess the less, the less stuff you have, the less kind of stuff

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there is to keep tidy.

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So I'm then contrasting, comparing and contrasting how you set out that intention for your

personal life.

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And then I suppose the journey that you've taken us on with your business is one of

expansion and um collecting and growing.

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And then you have two different opposites that you're sitting with.

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And then describing right at the beginning of the call was this idea of I need systems and

processes or I need to think about that.

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So I wonder if this is a question of, you know, streamlining and whether you could put in

some of that thought process that went behind the way that you live into your business.

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How does that sound if I replay that back to you?

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Yeah, I think there's definitely a need to be a bit more intentional about...

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the business side of things.

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I think I'm quite, sort of have started now telling people that I have diagnosed myself

with shiny object syndrome whereby I will see something that looks interesting and be

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like, oh, that's, you know, I want to sign up for this webinar or that, you know, I want

to learn about that.

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And I think that's really, you know, I kind of need to call that time and energy back from

doing too much and distracting myself from

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What's driving that Emma?

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that need for taking part?

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good coaching question.

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uh I think part of it is around a sort of love of learning, if I'm being kind to myself.

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Part of it, if I'm being a bit more honest, is probably more like uh some kind of

underlying insecurity and thinking, oh I need this, I need that.

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And actually a lot of the time what I need is to make a bit more space to...

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to kind of be a bit more considered and thoughtful and not just to kind of have those knee

jerk reactions of, yes, I'm going to sign myself up for this webinar one lunchtime and,

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you know, and another course.

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So yeah, I think that's another place where I can be a lot more sort of self-aware about

over committing myself to things that aren't actually that sort of deeper work.

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You know, it's a, I guess if we...

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Come back to the cupboard analogy, right?

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know, like put a nice new shiny door handle on the door of the hallway cupboard, but not

actually get in there and tidy it all out and make some sense and order out of it all.

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So yeah, I think.

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a decision framework help with that next year?

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So in our corporate lives, obviously we would have something like a training plan for a

year where we'd set out what it is that we're going to put our energy into and our costs

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into.

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So our employer's time, you know.

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And then we would only do learning and development that directly supported that if there

was time within the allocated hours, for example.

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And I wonder if having a decision framework such as here's my priority of learning for

2026 and here's roughly how many hours I think I want to spend on my development next year

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because my perception of you really is that you're exceptionally well qualified.

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You've spent a lot of time upskilling in the last couple of years.

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So maybe it's a question of do I need this?

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Do I need to be putting?

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into it and having those that as a kind of a framework to to make quick and easy decisions

from because that's efficiency isn't it?

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It means you've not got the cognitive load of weighing it up or it's nice to be flexible

but flexible comes with is it against my values and my goals and where I'm heading this

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year.

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No, I think that's such a good point and I think that's perhaps one of the dangers of, you

know, having the freedom of being your own boss is that you can sign up for 21 different

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courses and buy yourself a whole range of different books.

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But actually, yeah, if it's not the thing that's moving the needle and getting you kind of

closer to where you want to be, then it's not necessarily.

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always the best use of time.

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yeah, definitely, guess being a bit stricter in terms of, okay, this is what I'm

committing to.

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Even if it was just the first half of the year and just said that is already a really,

really interesting course that I've identified that is gonna happen in March.

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know, I do really want to do it.

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oh So I think, you know, I could just say, okay, that is my L and D.

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commitment for the first half of 2026.

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And I really need to not kind of have that.

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Oh, shiny thing over there.

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And really rein myself in easier said than done.

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I mean, your L &D input into your business, your learning and development, it directly

impacts the value and the depth of the work you can do with your clients.

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So it's not just something that you want.

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You reuse that and you repackage it.

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having some decisions around that is going to help guide you, but it doesn't have to stop

you doing the stuff that you really want to do.

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I think you mentioned there something around

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where I want to be or who I want to be and so tell me where is it that you're aiming to

get to as a business person as Emma Thomas who has these revenues and income streams where

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are you aiming to get to and how does 2026 feature in

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So that is the year where I plan to build up my coaching practice.

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uh And for that probably, I don't know whether it will be by the end of the year, but uh

to be the predominant income stream for me.

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I'm not sure about putting a specific number on that, but em yeah, that's going to be the,

you know, the focus of my development is in terms of bringing in more corporate clients

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into the coaching practice.

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I'm hoping that having that sort of slightly more unified em place where people can find

me and the different sort of aspects of what I do will kind of help to reinforce that as

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well.

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So that's your clear focus.

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And if you then worked out how many clients that you need to bring in next year, do know

what your numbers look around in terms of your pipeline, for example.

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No.

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That might be something to consider.

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So it sounds like then you've got the three elements of your business and you've

identified that the coaching which is tied into your corporate offer is the key thing.

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That's where you see yourself at the end of next year doing the majority of your work or

to flip it the other way that's where the majority of your income is going to come from is

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that right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Yeah, okay.

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And so what needs to change then to get that offer front and center and visible?

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So I need to do more in terms of outreach, business development and connecting to kind of

corporates that I would like to work with.

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And that's definitely an area where I have traditionally not been as good at kind of

staying on track with, kind of putting in the hours for developing new business, kind of,

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yeah, new clients coming in, uh quite good at sort of holding on to existing clients, but,

but that's been sort of more on the other part of my business.

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So, um, and I know that.

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that sort of coaching landscape is also quite competitive.

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I think that's, again, having a kind of a clear messaging about who I'm helping and how I

can help them uh is part of that as well.

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And it's really tempting, isn't it?

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I think to think about all of the other activities that need to happen in our business.

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And I wonder if there's some tension there for you around prioritizing that pipeline

activity over anything else.

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So even for example, your start out goal, which is I need to, you know, clear out stuff.

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What is going to actually get you closer to where you want to be or where you see yourself

at the end of the year?

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Is it investing time in your sales pipeline or is it clearing out your cupboard or is it a

bit of both, you know?

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Good question.

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Answers on the postcard.

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uh But I think that, yeah, I think there's always the temptation to.

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do the things that either feel easier or...

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that are more appealing.

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um So for somebody who actively dislikes doing sales and business development, think it's

very easy to of deprioritise that.

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m So I am kind of gradually learning to be better at that, but I think that's always going

to be a struggle for me is kind of consistency of putting in that work, the business

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development.

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and the sale side.

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that

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being compassionate towards yourself when it comes to sales and business pipelines.

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if we look at the businesses that you're working with, we're not talking about, you know,

small companies at all.

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You've got some good contracts with, big companies.

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So if you're being compassionate with yourself, what could you say that is, supportive of

where you've got to so far?

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I mean, I imagine me of five years ago would be quite astounded by, you know, the kinds of

organisations that I have been working with.

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Probably if I'd been setting myself goals back then, I wouldn't, I would not have, you

know, put my name in those kind of spaces necessarily.

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So, yeah.

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I think it's very easy to kind of be hard on ourselves and not sort of step back and

think, oh, actually, I have achieved quite a lot.

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Just always being on to the next thing.

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Thank you.

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you have achieved a lot and you can do sales because you have done sales and you've got

clients.

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So the next question then is how do you borrow some of the energy that comes from the

shiny object syndrome as you call it?

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some of that enthusiasm and you know, fill that sales pond up with that.

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Mmm.

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Yeah, I guess it's sort of doing something to kind of link it tangibly to some kind of

reward or or sort of smaller goals.

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So yeah, I mean, you know, generally, generally, we'll be quite happy to reward myself

with books or nice food or all kind of trips to

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trips out so maybe there's a you know a kind of in the same way that if you had sales

targets in a big organization you might sort of you know hit your sales targets and get

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some kind of bonus or reward so yeah maybe just need to to think more along those lines

and and kind of actually motivating motivating myself to get it done.

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you mentioned the thing that you want to do in March, the learning and development the

number of hours that you might be dedicating towards that.

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You'll have an idea, maybe thinking how do I match, how do I match fund my learning and

development with investment so that you're really getting the most out of that new

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knowledge because you'll be redistributing that knowledge back through your offerings, no

doubt.

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Mm.

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I think trying to bring those things together and just have them working a little bit more

symbiotically might feel more comfortable than thinking, oh, you know, I've got to chase

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sales and that's something I don't like doing.

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I'm not good at it.

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I mean, there's the reframing there, which is, yes, you can do it.

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there's quite a lot of evidence that you can do it and you are doing it.

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Yeah, and ultimately, yeah, what I want to do is to help organisations and help the people

within those organisations.

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So if I can, I can find new ways to do that and em present that in a way that is appealing

for those organisations.

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And it's, you know, I think other people talk about this, you know, don't, you're not

thinking about it so much in terms of

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selling but about finding out what organisations need and how I can help them.

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So I think, you know,

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it's that thing around what's the transformation they get as a result of working for you.

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that's what you're selling.

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And that's the difference, isn't it, between, you know, positioning as a coach and

positioning a consultancy service that includes coaching and the things that you do.

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You're offering something slightly different.

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top tier consultancy.

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you've connections, with the medical profession and you've got this vast, encyclopedic

knowledge on perimenopause from all of the podcast episodes that you've done.

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And those specialists on tap So there's just so much there really that is solid and that

you've built with your business.

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Well, thank you.

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It sounds impressive when you say it.

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Because it is Emma, it's really impressive.

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I always think of you as somebody who is getting somewhere and you make it happen I really

admire that about you.

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you can definitely do this next year.

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I think at the end of 2026 you can look back and go wow.

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I didn't think I'd get those contracts, but I know that you can do it The evidence is

definitely there.

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So in terms of tidying things up, if I was to counter that perhaps the goal that you're

setting might be a distraction goal from the thing that you're trying to avoid.

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Wouldn't be the first time.

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No, and because this isn't a coaching session, I can step out of my coach hat and just say

that out loud, which is great, rather than waiting for you to say it.

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But that's what I see.

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is that that landing for you?

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Yeah, I think that's fair.

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I think it's in the same way that you can build a website and think, I'll play around a

bit with what the homepage looks like and I need to add this page and that page.

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you don't really, you don't even need to have a homepage, uh a website to be in business

as a kind of coach or a consultant.

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It's kind of a nice to have, but little point kind of.

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tinkering around the edges if you're not actually going to go out there and find the work

uh and kind of help people to find you.

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So yeah, I think.

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some kind of, some careful kind of boundaries to make sure that the whole kind of figuring

stuff out, how things actually kind of look online or on paper and how all of those bits

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fit together needs to be kind of contained enough that it doesn't sort of sprawl into kind

of become all consuming as a, uh you know, and then I look up in June and go, oh, I

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haven't done anything else, but I've got a lovely website.

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You

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There's a coherence there that I think is just needed rather than a massive

reorganisation.

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And I'd be really tempted to use a focus group for this, Emma, and you have got great

content through your podcast and through your consultancy.

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I mean, you know, your background means that you understand how to do these things, but

I'd be tempted to just pull together five people I know and trust.

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get them into a focus call, have some very targeted questions about your three elements of

your business and get them to help you with the coherence piece.

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You don't have to do this on your own.

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maybe that's something where that makes it a really fun thing to do.

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It's also re-engagement as well with clients or potential clients.

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you're putting your focus next year into that sales piece because the coherence piece is a

fun workshop to do it's doing research on your own business as well.

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no, I love that idea, thank you.

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Welcome.

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I will always have a good research in business.

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do you want to get started with your goal in January or do you want to start straight

away?

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I think I want to start in January because I've got quite a lot of work to deliver this

month and it's obviously a shortish month anyway.

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I am...

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of work and 24 of celebrations or something like that.

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I am sort of approaching people in terms of doing a bit of work on my branding and kind of

uh design approach, but I think I'll probably start in earnest in January.

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So the fact that you're thinking about that, mean that research and bringing together a

focus group around the coherence, that would save you time and effort in being able to

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answer all those detailed and in-depth questions that branding experts ask about

businesses.

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So that would lean into it.

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if I get in touch with you at the end of January for a four week update,

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Mm-hmm.

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What three things, three actions, have you moved the needle on and why?

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So I'm gonna have a look at setting up the focus group idea.

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So I like that.

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So that's one.

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uh The second one is getting some serious post-it note action uh and sort of planning out

a bit more of a structure for how the website would look.

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And the third one, I think is more in terms of putting together

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uh packages for potential clients, because I think that's sort of helpful at least to have

a more of a jumping off point for some discussions.

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And then in terms of potential clients, have you got a list of a couple of clients or

you've got a couple of clients in mind who you want to target next year?

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So I do have a big list of potential clients.

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So I have already started doing that kind of outreach work.

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um So I think it's just kind of continuing that really.

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Just, yeah, getting the emails out, following up.

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using the system that I've started to put together.

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sounds great and I think you'll also have some feedback from five people who are connected

with your business in some way around the coherence of stuff so that might inform some of

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that packaging information, it'll inform the branding so that kind of makes sense doesn't

it and I think what I'm suggesting here is that you use

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You you crowdsource some of this next year, so it's not all on you.

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Sounds good.

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I'm going to ask all of my guests to come back for a recorded session.

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with a couple of other guests

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and hear from you again in a group conversation.

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And you can help other people with their goals as well, which I'm really excited for you

to take part in.

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I know that your coaching work is really good.

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So my guests will definitely benefit from you being in those conversations.

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Is there anything?

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oh You're welcome.

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is there anything that you're just thinking, hmm, that's curious or something that you

thought, oh, I thought this might come up and it hasn't?

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think your whole focus group suggestion just really made me think about things in a

different way of not necessarily having to work all of this out on my own.

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That actually, you can involve other people in that process and actually that probably in

some ways is more productive than just sitting in the...

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Sitting in the hole as people call it and just sort of trying to muddle it all through

yourself.

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um So yeah, actually kind of hearing what clients want to hear and see is a lot more

useful if I can get them to talk to me.

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It's quite a nice way to test things out as well, because then you can talk about that as

well, can't you, with your audience on socials and through your podcasts, you can talk to

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them about the focus group and what people have been saying.

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without committing it to a new web page and having to get everything worked out.

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And I think it's that idea of failing a bit faster, isn't it, sometimes?

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It's like, let's test the waters with it and see where we go.

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I know that when we do come back, I definitely want to ask you a little bit more about

holding up the sky.

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And I'm really interested in your journey on that this year.

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All right, thanks, Leila Always a joy.

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Thank you so much for being a guest on Psychologically Speaking and I'm looking forward to

catching up with you in January.

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Everybody approaches goals differently.

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sometimes we pitch our goals a little lower than the dream we actually want.

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We keep our momentum modest because we think we need strong foundations before we're

allowed to scale.

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And we also worry about failing sometimes more than we admit, especially when what we're

doing can be very visible publicly.

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So in January, I'm opening up something new to help you move beyond that.

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And it's called my 2026 Goal Sprint.

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a live 60 minute session where we're going to use my prompts to craft the best goal for

your 2026.

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and it's going to be a goal that's ambitious, it assumes that you can grow from day one,

and it's got built-in space to evolve if it stops serving you.

354

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You'll get weekly live check-ins to keep your momentum going, and especially past that

second week in February where most resolutions quietly melt away.

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You'll get access to a Slack group where you can be posting daily through January,

February and March.

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And I will be in there every week to give you the strongest psychological start to your

year.

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If you want a 2026 goal that feels exciting, grounded and possible, you can join us for

just £79 and the link is in the show notes or you can go straight to

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www.leilaainge.co.uk/goalsprint forward slash goal sprint.

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I'd love to see you there.

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That's all for today.

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Thank you for listening to Psychologically Speaking with me, Leila Ainge.