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Welcome to the e commerce
podcast with me, your host.

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Matt Edmundson.

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This is a show all about delivering
e commerce well, but we're going

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to be doing it just a little
bit differently here in August.

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Oh, yes we are, because August is just
one of those funny months where, well,

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we're all on holiday, aren't we, really?

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At least some of us will
be, uh, including me.

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So, we're going to do, uh, some shorter
cut down versions in August, uh, and

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it's going to be myself and the show's
producer, Sadaf Beynon, who doesn't

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normally get to be on camera, but is
going to be on camera for the next video.

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Five episodes, uh, and
a microphone as well.

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it has to be said, uh, as we're
going to be talking about some of

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the things that's been going on here
at EP and also some of the things

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that's going on behind the scenes.

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Thought it'd be a good
catch up series to do.

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So I'm excited about this,
uh, as we're going to be going

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through a whole bunch of stuff.

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Now, uh, I'm just going to turn
and I'm going to turn it back

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down again as a nice little break.

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Uh, so.

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E commerce podcast is
sponsored by e commerce cohort.

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com.

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So I thought it would be good Well,
I actually set up, I think you

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thought it would be good, to explain
a little bit about what Cohort is.

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Um, we're going to dig into that a
little bit and then we're going to

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talk about some of the lessons we have
learned from Cohort and why this matters.

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So we're going to get into that.

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So Cohort is, has been the
sponsor of EP for a little while.

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And in case you've not figured it
out, Cohort is part of our company.

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It's part of what we do.

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It's the best way to describe Cohort.

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Uh, it's like a monthly mastermind
group, an online mastermind group

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where at the start of every month,
we have like an expert workshop,

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uh, delivered by amazing people.

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They deliver this workshop.

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You then go through the workshop, uh,
online and you then spend the next

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few weeks figuring out how this sort
of impacts your business really and

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what it means for your e commerce
business, how it's going to work.

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We then, um, do like a live Q& A,
uh, and during the cohort where

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you get to ask your questions.

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and so on and so forth.

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And so the idea is that every month
you come away with like three or four

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key things that you can implement
from that workshop in your e

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commerce business to make it better.

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That's the plan and that's
usually how it works.

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Have I missed anything out Miss Sadaf?

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No,

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we haven't.

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Thanks for that.

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So we're kickstarting our August
series with a focus on customer

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experience and, um, Vance.

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Morris, you might, some of you might
remember the name he, um, we'll, we'll

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be taking his, um, Um, his sprint
that he did on cohort and be talking

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about, um, some of the things that he
talked about and the lessons that we've

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learned, the key takeaways from that.

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So should we jump in?

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Yeah, I think we should jump in.

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So Vance Morris, what
a legend that fella is.

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Uh, yes.

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So the episode that he did.

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Uh, was the podcast episode
I'm thinking was called how

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did Disney fight your business?

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Something like that.

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Yes.

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Yes.

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Something like that.

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Maybe the magic of, uh, something.

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Something about magic and Disney.

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to your business or something.

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Yeah.

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Something

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like that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and I remember that episode because
we recorded that with Vance and I, it was

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great to talk to somebody from Disney.

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So Vance is ex Disney and he has
taken the whole Disney thing to a

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whole extreme in terms of applying
the rules of Disney to your business.

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And so we thought it would
be great to get him on.

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Cohort to come and share his insight
and he delivered this workshop Which we

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actually did together as a so when we tell
other companies do it We do it ourselves

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with our own e commerce business.

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We get the team around we watch the
workshops and we talk about how um,

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The lessons that we can learn from that
and how it impacts our business and we

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still have on our board Because we, I
talk about this a little bit in cohort,

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but we have a board up in our office
which shows all the things that we

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need to get done and the projects and
the priority and so on and so forth.

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We have on there things from Vance Morris
from this cohort workshop, don't we?

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Yeah,

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we do.

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We do.

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And, uh, sorry, you were gonna, were you

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gonna say something?

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No, no, no.

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I was going to say they're all
on high tech post it notes.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Because that's how we roll in our

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digital business.

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Yeah.

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Um, one of the things that he
talks about and that we've got

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on the board is line attainment.

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Yeah.

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Which was a new concept
brought to us by Vance.

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We never heard of that before.

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Um, so maybe Matt if you can talk
about that and also how um, Like how

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businesses can use that concept to, um,
breathe life into their own businesses.

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Yeah.

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Line attainment was a
great thing, isn't it?

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And uh, it was this word that we put on
a post it note on our board, which just

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reminds us of this concept of this idea.

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And this is what Cohort's all about.

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We're doing these episodes to show you
what Cohort is about a little bit So

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you get some idea of it and you know,
sort of behind the scenes working And

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so this concept of line attainment was
where Vance was talking about how, um,

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at Disney They came to realize that they
can't make the queues any quicker, right?

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So if there's a queue for an
hour, there's a queue for an hour.

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How do you make that queue quicker?

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Well, you get a load of people
out of the queue, I suppose, but

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they all want to go on the ride.

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You can give people the ability
to buy a more expensive pass so

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they can jump the queue, but it
still doesn't change the queue.

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So if you go to Disney World and you spend
five, six hours of the day in queues, that

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is, uh, gonna be a very dull, boring time.

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Right.

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So we were just talking to Keoni
before we recorded these, didn't we?

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Keoni is part of the production team.

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She's working on the episodes
and stuff behind the scenes.

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And she normally would be working
tomorrow, but she isn't because

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she's going to Alton Towers.

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Right, so she's going to
suffer this same thing.

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She's going to go Alton Towers and stand
in a queue because, you know, we all

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know the British like to queue, right?

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So it's just a standard thing,
we just like to stand in a queue.

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There's a queue, let's go, let's
go stand in it and get bored.

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And so, um, and so this idea of line
attainment was very much a case of how

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do you entertain people in the queues?

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So Disney came to the realization we can't
make the queues any shorter, but what we

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can do is we can make them more enjoyable.

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And the reason why this stuck out
to us as a team is we're like,

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well, how does that work for us?

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Where are the queues that
we can't necessarily reduce?

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And the obvious queue in e commerce
is the gap between placing the order

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and the order arriving at your door.

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Even in England, with the
best will in the world, where

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everything's on next day delivery,
because it's such a tiny country.

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Um, you know, you've
still got several hours.

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There's still this queue
that people have to.

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So how can you engage people,
uh, entertain people might

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not be the right word for your
business, but you get the concept.

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What can you do that makes the waiting
a more enjoyable experience rather

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than a negative experience, which
waiting inevitably is by default.

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And so that was what we.

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We took away from that, wasn't it?

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And then we, we had a whole bunch of
things, which we wrote upon our board.

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Um, uh, you know, just from email
sequences that we were using, how can

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we better use those to help people, uh,
engage people while they're waiting?

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So that's line attainment in a nutshell.

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That was a concept.

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And how does that work for our business?

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Thank you.

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Yeah, definitely.

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I think, um, making, making
those experiences more memorable

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for customers really helps,
like, as you say, entertaining

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them in some, in some capacity.

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Um, even though it's the boring
waiting, they're doing something

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that makes it memorable.

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Um, I think another thing that he
talked about was, um, different

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touch points to reduce friction.

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Yeah, this was another
great point, wasn't it?

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And this is something actually,
uh, not to toot my own horn too

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much, but, you know, I like to
take every opportunity I can get.

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Um, we do this, we've always done
this exercise with people and we've

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done consulting work and coaching
work and Vance touched on this.

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And it's interesting because whilst I've
done it with other companies, we'd never

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really done it for our own company.

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Which is obviously stupid.

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Now this concept is again,
really straightforward.

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This lesson was write down every
single touch point that a customer

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has with your business, right?

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So this includes everything from your
Google ads, your Facebook ads, your email

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marketing, your homepage, um, the box that
you send out to them with the goods in.

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Follow up emails, customer service, you
write down every single touch point,

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the checkout, all of these things.

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Uh, and then again, the very Disney
thing, you look at those touch points

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and you ask one question and you,
your, your, you drive yourself to

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answer that one question, which is how
can I reduce friction at this point?

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And so the obvious Place here is checkout.

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This is a key touch point for
everybody on your website.

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How can you do that quicker,
easier and with less friction?

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And you spend some time designing
and thinking around that, don't you?

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And, um, so yeah, touch the touch point
map is what we call it internally.

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Create in this touchpoint map,
and you just literally map out all

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the touchpoints, um, and you ask
yourself, how can you reduce friction?

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The checkout being the most obvious
one, I think, uh, because that's where

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you'll probably see the most conversion
when you reduce the, the friction.

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So yeah, that was another great
thing that came out from, from

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Vance's, uh, thing about Disney.

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They looked at touchpoints, where
the customers interact with you,

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how can you reduce that friction?

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So if people want to pay you,
um, to get entrance to the park.

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How can we reduce that friction?

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All of these things, you know, how do
we, the Disney dollars reduces friction

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buying in stores and all that sort of
stuff, especially because there's so

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many people coming up from all over
the world with different currencies

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and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

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So there's a lot of things that you
can do to reduce friction, but you,

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to reduce friction, you have to
understand your touch points, which

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are the points where customers or
potential customers interact with.

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Your business and then just
looking at that objectively

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going, how do I reduce friction?

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And I guarantee you there's going to be
a whole bunch of things that you can do

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to reduce friction without any doubt.

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Is there any, um, is there anything
that you could, that you can talk about

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as far as an e commerce business goes?

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I know we were just talking about
Disney and what that means when you're

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standing in line and The Disney dollars
and stuff, but like for an e commerce

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business, an example of friction other
than waiting for your parcel to arrive.

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Is there something else that is maybe not
as obvious that people don't necessarily

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see as a friction point, but it is?

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I think the, the, the most obvious
one, like I say, is checkout.

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And usually the thing that causes
friction is asking way too many questions.

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Like, what's your inside leg measurement,
you know, when did Neil Armstrong land

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on the moon and all that sort of stuff.

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You just don't need to know the answer
to half the questions that you ask.

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Um, the reality of it is you
want them to get through the

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checkout as quickly as possible.

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A great way to solve that, you
know, you've seen things like the

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advent of Apple Pay or Google Pay
where you can go onto a website, you

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can click Apple Pay and all that.

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They don't have to even put
any of that information in.

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Um, the advent of things like GDPR has
made things a bit more friction full.

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So, uh, which would be an
interesting one, wouldn't it?

233
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So a sign up to a newsletter
would be an interesting one.

234
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So do you have it on your website that
when people sign up to a newsletter?

235
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You do the double opt in, by what
I, you know, what I mean by that is,

236
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they sign up to the newsletter, you
send them an email saying, please

237
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confirm that you actually want this
email, and you want the newsletters,

238
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which they then hit another button.

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So now I've taken something as simple as
putting your name and email address in,

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and bearing in mind, when you ask people
to sign up to a newsletter, that's all

241
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you really need is their name and email.

242
00:12:08,819 --> 00:12:10,050
You probably don't even need that name.

243
00:12:10,050 --> 00:12:11,579
You could probably just
get away with that email.

244
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Again, reducing friction.

245
00:12:13,509 --> 00:12:17,180
But I'm introducing fiction
because of legislation.

246
00:12:17,189 --> 00:12:21,420
Now we can argue, Uh, do the
rules of GDPR mean that I have

247
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to do the double opt in or not?

248
00:12:23,965 --> 00:12:26,255
That's, you know, I'm
not, I'm not a lawyer.

249
00:12:26,275 --> 00:12:28,135
I'm not going to give my
interpretation of that law.

250
00:12:28,535 --> 00:12:32,305
Uh, you need to figure that out
for yourself, but if you do follow

251
00:12:32,305 --> 00:12:36,525
the double opt in, um, that's
going to cause friction, right?

252
00:12:36,525 --> 00:12:40,805
So how can I reduce that friction
or at least make it more enjoyable?

253
00:12:41,370 --> 00:12:44,770
Things like using recapture
forms, you know, like pick all

254
00:12:44,770 --> 00:12:48,490
the pictures where there's a
bridge, just frustrates everybody.

255
00:12:48,550 --> 00:12:51,719
But is that, is that something
that I really need on this page?

256
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Or not?

257
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,010
Am I doing it just because I'm, I
think for some reason someone's gonna

258
00:12:56,030 --> 00:12:57,780
hack my little website at this point?

259
00:12:57,789 --> 00:12:58,410
I don't know.

260
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These are all kind of things
that you need to figure out.

261
00:13:01,475 --> 00:13:04,795
So do you really need
recapture on an email signup?

262
00:13:04,855 --> 00:13:06,425
Do you want to do the double opt in?

263
00:13:06,425 --> 00:13:07,825
How can you reduce that friction?

264
00:13:07,825 --> 00:13:10,385
So these would be some
of the less obvious ones.

265
00:13:10,895 --> 00:13:11,165
Yeah.

266
00:13:11,215 --> 00:13:12,984
Um, but I think.

267
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It's one of those things that
will have the big, you know, we'll

268
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have a big impact ultimately.

269
00:13:19,555 --> 00:13:19,855
Cool.

270
00:13:19,985 --> 00:13:20,585
Thanks, Matt.

271
00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:25,945
Is there anything else that that
That you felt was a key takeaway

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from that particular workshop with

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Vance?

274
00:13:29,225 --> 00:13:31,425
Yeah with Vance Yeah, there's a
couple of things that we took.

275
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So I always encourage people to
take four key takeaways, right?

276
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Or four key actions that you want to do
as a result of watching the workshop.

277
00:13:37,955 --> 00:13:40,535
And the reason I say four is
anything more than four is too many.

278
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Um, you know, with Vance, it
was like 20 and we then had

279
00:13:44,050 --> 00:13:45,290
to distill it down for four.

280
00:13:45,740 --> 00:13:47,890
And so for me, the four things
were the line attainment.

281
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How does that work for us?

282
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Um, the touch point
map, reducing friction.

283
00:13:51,969 --> 00:13:53,340
The third one was clear USP.

284
00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:56,060
So, um, Vance talked about this.

285
00:13:56,060 --> 00:13:57,050
Disney is very good at it.

286
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:03,370
Having a clear USP, a unique selling
proposition, um, a reason to buy from you.

287
00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:04,580
What is your clear USP?

288
00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:08,000
And are you communicating that
in a way that your staff and your

289
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,564
customers Understand what your USP is.

290
00:14:10,565 --> 00:14:13,565
Is it communicated in
everything that you do?

291
00:14:14,485 --> 00:14:19,285
And so being super clear about those USPs.

292
00:14:19,305 --> 00:14:23,084
So one of the things that we did, um, so I
don't know if you remember this, actually,

293
00:14:23,085 --> 00:14:24,865
we have a website called Vegetology.

294
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:27,890
Uh, which sells, um,
health supplements, right?

295
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:31,030
I'll show the list, uh, there
you go, it's on the screen

296
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:31,820
if you're watching the video.

297
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:33,610
Actually, it's not on the
screen because it's very blurred

298
00:14:33,660 --> 00:14:34,695
because my face is on the screen.

299
00:14:34,695 --> 00:14:35,799
There we go, that's better.

300
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:40,930
So we sell the, um, we sell the
capsules, uh, the health supplements.

301
00:14:40,930 --> 00:14:43,170
And one of the, we sell is this Omega 3.

302
00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:47,980
And Omega 3, um, is a great,
great supplement, right?

303
00:14:48,050 --> 00:14:49,699
But traditionally it's come from fish.

304
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,090
We assume that fish create Omega 3.

305
00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:57,720
But which they don't actually fish
get omega 3 from the algae that they

306
00:14:57,780 --> 00:15:02,060
eat So we were like, well if we could
just take omega 3 from the algae,

307
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:05,210
then we have fish free omega 3 Yeah.

308
00:15:05,290 --> 00:15:09,550
Um, plus we don't have all the mercury
poison in that goes with it, and we

309
00:15:09,550 --> 00:15:11,940
save, uh, the lives of many, many fish.

310
00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:14,480
And so we thought, how do
we communicate this clearly?

311
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,750
We just did something really super simple.

312
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,899
We put a fish counter, a fish
life save counter on our website.

313
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:21,530
It's still on there.

314
00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:22,520
You can go to Vegetology.

315
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,890
com and see how many fish lives
were saved by Vegetology customers

316
00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:29,720
buying, uh, this food supplement.

317
00:15:30,110 --> 00:15:32,950
Um, and I don't know when
we started counting from.

318
00:15:34,220 --> 00:15:38,350
But there's an awful lot of fish
on that counter because it's like,

319
00:15:38,860 --> 00:15:43,360
um, we know it takes at least 50
fish to make a pot of omega 3.

320
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,189
So we can look at how many pots
we've sold over the last few

321
00:15:45,190 --> 00:15:46,040
years and give you a number.

322
00:15:46,970 --> 00:15:50,809
Um, and so just something as simple as
that actually had a really good impact

323
00:15:50,809 --> 00:15:55,000
on the website, had a good impact
on conversion, helped our customers

324
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,190
understand what was unique about us,
what the unique selling proposition was.

325
00:15:58,620 --> 00:16:00,970
Uh, we don't need fish to create omega 3.

326
00:16:01,145 --> 00:16:04,685
And it's mercury free, it's poison
free, and it's like super, super

327
00:16:04,695 --> 00:16:06,255
strong, the strongest you can get.

328
00:16:06,255 --> 00:16:07,625
So there are all these sort of USPs.

329
00:16:08,125 --> 00:16:10,944
Just being super clear about that,
I thought was, was really helpful.

330
00:16:11,195 --> 00:16:16,395
We even rewrote our vision and
mission statements, uh, for the

331
00:16:16,395 --> 00:16:20,465
website to be much clearer about what
it is that we do, uh, on the site.

332
00:16:20,485 --> 00:16:23,225
So, um, that was a super helpful lesson.

333
00:16:23,595 --> 00:16:26,795
And then the fourth one, which I.

334
00:16:27,535 --> 00:16:32,825
I've heard a number of people mention
this, um, over, over the years,

335
00:16:32,825 --> 00:16:34,155
but Vance really brought it out.

336
00:16:34,165 --> 00:16:39,745
He was like, every visitor to the
Disney theme park is a micro influencer.

337
00:16:40,215 --> 00:16:44,404
Every visitor is posting on social
media, their experiences of Disney.

338
00:16:45,060 --> 00:16:48,370
Um, whether it's good or bad,
they're usually putting pictures up.

339
00:16:48,390 --> 00:16:53,250
And so it's like your business needs
to understand that everybody is a

340
00:16:53,260 --> 00:16:57,210
micro influencer, or at least has the
potential to be a micro influencer.

341
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,379
Now sure, not every customer is
going to put a picture on Facebook

342
00:17:02,380 --> 00:17:05,710
every time they get a, you know,
their Amiga 3 from one of our sites.

343
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,329
It's less Instagram worthy,
isn't it, I suppose, than walking

344
00:17:10,329 --> 00:17:11,489
through the gates at Disney.

345
00:17:12,010 --> 00:17:16,790
Um, but the principle is still the same,
and how do we influence our customers?

346
00:17:17,069 --> 00:17:19,720
Well, how do we give our customers
such a great experience that

347
00:17:19,729 --> 00:17:23,480
they want to share a positive
experience to their micro community?

348
00:17:23,885 --> 00:17:26,324
Um, and understanding the parallel
I thought was super helpful.

349
00:17:26,845 --> 00:17:29,074
So, that would be my four points from Mr.

350
00:17:29,074 --> 00:17:29,814
Vance Morris.

351
00:17:30,514 --> 00:17:31,215
Oh, that's cool.

352
00:17:31,215 --> 00:17:35,874
And I agree, a well defined USP can
really set your business apart, can't it?

353
00:17:36,804 --> 00:17:37,735
It can make all the difference.

354
00:17:38,605 --> 00:17:39,644
Yeah, it can, totally.

355
00:17:39,645 --> 00:17:41,935
And it's worth investing
the time to figure that out.

356
00:17:42,344 --> 00:17:44,885
And actually, with the advent
of ChatGPT, you can just write a

357
00:17:45,225 --> 00:17:49,185
prompt saying, Dear ChatGPT, I want
to craft a USP for my business.

358
00:17:49,185 --> 00:17:52,414
I want you to ask me, um, I want
you to follow the following.

359
00:17:54,145 --> 00:17:58,745
I want you to ask me a question that's
going to help you, help me craft a better,

360
00:17:58,925 --> 00:18:02,215
you know, USP and keep asking me questions
until you've got enough information

361
00:18:02,215 --> 00:18:03,745
that you need to help me write it.

362
00:18:04,405 --> 00:18:07,195
And so ChatGPT becomes like a
consultant, it's just going to ask

363
00:18:07,195 --> 00:18:08,214
you a whole bunch of questions.

364
00:18:08,214 --> 00:18:09,685
You're going to answer it, it's
going to ask you another question,

365
00:18:09,685 --> 00:18:13,155
answer it, ask another question until
eventually you've got your USP document.

366
00:18:13,155 --> 00:18:17,625
So there's no reason, there's no
reason not to have one right now.

367
00:18:19,205 --> 00:18:19,485
Yes.

368
00:18:19,925 --> 00:18:20,485
Absolutely.

369
00:18:20,554 --> 00:18:21,264
Absolutely.

370
00:18:22,444 --> 00:18:22,914
Absolutely.

371
00:18:22,944 --> 00:18:23,324
Indeed.

372
00:18:25,254 --> 00:18:27,034
So is there anything else we want
to talk about in this episode?

373
00:18:27,084 --> 00:18:28,364
I think that's probably
about it, isn't it?

374
00:18:28,374 --> 00:18:29,774
Oh, yeah, I think we

375
00:18:29,774 --> 00:18:30,474
should wrap it up.

376
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:32,240
Let's wrap it up.

377
00:18:32,270 --> 00:18:35,430
So, uh, yes, this August we are
going to be talking about lessons

378
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:36,610
that we have learned from Cohort.

379
00:18:36,610 --> 00:18:38,760
We're going to take you behind the
scenes, some of the key things that

380
00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,820
we have learned from some of the great
conversation, great conversations,

381
00:18:43,170 --> 00:18:45,780
great workshops, uh, on Cohort.

382
00:18:45,789 --> 00:18:48,139
If you want to find out more, if
you want to learn more about Cohort,

383
00:18:48,150 --> 00:18:50,370
just head over to ecommercecohort.

384
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:50,610
com.

385
00:18:50,940 --> 00:18:54,520
You will hear us talking a lot about
Cohort over the coming months because

386
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,350
it's going to be one of the key sponsors
of the show, ladies and gentlemen, so

387
00:18:57,350 --> 00:18:58,270
you're not going to be able to escape it.

388
00:18:58,270 --> 00:18:59,374
But at least now you know.

389
00:18:59,715 --> 00:19:06,165
The kind of thing what's going on coming
up in future episodes we have Oh who we're

390
00:19:06,165 --> 00:19:10,734
going to pick on oliver spark Uh, we're
going to talk about neil hoyt from google.

391
00:19:10,745 --> 00:19:14,165
We're going to talk about dan bedai
about email marketing and of course

392
00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:17,910
We're going to be talking about lessons
we learned in the AI sprint as well.

393
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,740
So, all of that coming up, make sure you
like and subscribe to what's going on.

394
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:24,800
Let me play the, uh, music here.

395
00:19:26,199 --> 00:19:29,239
All that's left for me to
say is thanks for joining us.

396
00:19:29,259 --> 00:19:31,489
And of course, you are awesome.

397
00:19:31,489 --> 00:19:31,959
Yes, you are.

398
00:19:31,969 --> 00:19:32,760
Created awesome.

399
00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:34,590
It's just a burden you have to bear.

400
00:19:34,620 --> 00:19:35,409
Sadaf has to bear it.

401
00:19:35,439 --> 00:19:36,239
I've got to bear it.

402
00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:37,929
You've got to bear it as well.

403
00:19:38,219 --> 00:19:41,830
Uh, do stick with us as we go through
this little August miniseries.

404
00:19:42,110 --> 00:19:43,139
And we hope you enjoy it.

405
00:19:43,139 --> 00:19:43,999
But that's it from me.

406
00:19:43,999 --> 00:19:45,159
That's it from Sadaf.

407
00:19:45,980 --> 00:19:46,230
Bye for now.