1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,820 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learn how to turn your prospective customers into raving fans from a 30-year expert on customer experience success. 2 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:14,120 Kevin Mako: This is the Product Startup Podcast, a show to learn from top leaders in hardware product development, 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:22,440 Kevin Mako: prototyping, manufacturing, product selling, and everything in between. Hosted by Kevin Mako, the leading expert on product development for hardware startups. 4 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:27,160 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. Today I'm very excited to introduce Jason Friedman to the show. 5 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,980 Kevin Mako: Jason is the CEO of CXFormula, a company. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,020 Kevin Mako: that helps emerging entrepreneurs perfect their customer experiences. 7 00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:37,500 Kevin Mako: He has worked with thousands of companies on this type of work for nearly 30 years, including 8 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:39,160 Kevin Mako: having multiple business exits. 9 00:00:39,860 --> 00:00:43,880 Kevin Mako: Today, Jason will share valuable information for inventors, startups, and small manufacturers 10 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:49,040 Kevin Mako: on what customer experience is, why the customer journey matters so much and best practices 11 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,760 Kevin Mako: around ensuring your new product customers engage, buy, and become raving fans of your invention. 12 00:00:54,060 --> 00:00:55,160 Kevin Mako: Now, on to the episode. 13 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,940 Kevin Mako: This show is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing end to 14 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,380 Kevin Mako: to end consumer product development services tailored specifically to hardware startups, 15 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,800 Kevin Mako: small manufacturers, and inventors. 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,200 Kevin Mako: Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. 17 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:14,000 Kevin Mako: Now on to the episode. 18 00:01:15,340 --> 00:01:16,580 Kevin Mako: Hey, Jason, welcome to the show. 19 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,440 Jason Friedman: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. 20 00:01:18,740 --> 00:01:23,440 Kevin Mako: Well, I really look forward to talking to you today about the customer experience, 21 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,760 Kevin Mako: both in the purchase and acquisition of a new hardware product, 22 00:01:27,060 --> 00:01:30,420 Kevin Mako: but also in the lifecycle journey of that customer with your product. 23 00:01:30,420 --> 00:01:31,480 Kevin Mako: Both are very well. 24 00:01:31,500 --> 00:01:34,100 Kevin Mako: Very important, and often the second part is overlooked. 25 00:01:34,260 --> 00:01:35,820 Kevin Mako: And we're going to get into all the details today. 26 00:01:35,940 --> 00:01:40,580 Kevin Mako: But before we get into best practices around understanding your customer, best positioning to 27 00:01:40,580 --> 00:01:44,900 Kevin Mako: your customer, and then getting a lifelong brand champion for your new hardware product, 28 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,680 Kevin Mako: just give us a bit of a backstory of how you got to be the big success story that you are today. 29 00:01:49,020 --> 00:01:50,200 Jason Friedman: Well, I appreciate that. 30 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:50,400 Jason Friedman: Yeah. 31 00:01:50,620 --> 00:01:52,040 Jason Friedman: I mean, customer experience, it's funny. 32 00:01:52,100 --> 00:01:55,280 Jason Friedman: I've been talking about this for the last 25, 30 years. 33 00:01:55,780 --> 00:01:59,140 Jason Friedman: And when I talk to people about customer experience, it's always like, yeah, 34 00:01:59,140 --> 00:02:00,080 Jason Friedman: yeah, it seems like something nice. 35 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:01,060 Jason Friedman: We'll do that someday. 36 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:05,940 Jason Friedman: And I keep saying to people, and I've said it like, I sound like a broken record, customer experience 37 00:02:05,940 --> 00:02:08,940 Jason Friedman: is one of the most important things, most important aspects of your business. 38 00:02:08,940 --> 00:02:11,420 Jason Friedman: It differentiates you in the marketplace. 39 00:02:11,420 --> 00:02:15,060 Jason Friedman: And if you're not really focusing on it, you're not going to be around that long. 40 00:02:15,060 --> 00:02:19,740 Jason Friedman: And that statement that I've been saying for 25, 30 years is more important today than ever before. 41 00:02:19,740 --> 00:02:22,740 Jason Friedman: You know, we have AI proliferating our world in every way. 42 00:02:22,740 --> 00:02:26,680 Jason Friedman: Everywhere you look, it's like new products are being developed, new courses are being created, 43 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:27,880 Jason Friedman: new everything. 44 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,480 Jason Friedman: Anybody can be a content creator in seconds and be a guru, be an expert. 45 00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:36,660 Jason Friedman: And now, what makes us unique is the experience that we create with our products, 46 00:02:36,660 --> 00:02:42,260 Jason Friedman: with our services, with our inventions, and it's more important today than ever before. 47 00:02:42,260 --> 00:02:45,740 Jason Friedman: So I think probably what's really important is, like, what is customer experience? 48 00:02:45,740 --> 00:02:48,780 Jason Friedman: What do I mean when I actually say that? 49 00:02:48,780 --> 00:02:55,640 Jason Friedman: And what I'm talking about is customer experience is the perception of how people feel after interacting 50 00:02:55,640 --> 00:03:00,220 Jason Friedman: with your product, with your brand, with your service, with your invention. 51 00:03:00,220 --> 00:03:01,480 Jason Friedman: And, you know, giving some 52 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:05,420 Jason Friedman: somebody, a customer experience is not actually like the right way to say it. 53 00:03:05,420 --> 00:03:08,560 Jason Friedman: Like customer experience isn't something you do. 54 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:13,660 Jason Friedman: Customer experience is something your customers have as a result of all the things you do. 55 00:03:13,660 --> 00:03:18,100 Jason Friedman: Of how that product works, how it fits, how it solves the problem that they have, how it makes 56 00:03:18,100 --> 00:03:19,300 Jason Friedman: them feel. 57 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:22,320 Jason Friedman: And so I think it's really important to think about that. 58 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:27,260 Jason Friedman: And one of the things that I struggle with that frustrates me in working with so many companies 59 00:03:27,260 --> 00:03:31,480 Jason Friedman: and just being a consumer myself is how infrequently the folks, the folks, 60 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:36,820 Jason Friedman: focus from a product designer, product developer, or even a course if you're taking a training 61 00:03:36,820 --> 00:03:40,280 Jason Friedman: or, you know, you're going through a drive-through at a restaurant, you know, it doesn't matter. 62 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:43,880 Jason Friedman: They don't think about it from the perspective of the customer. 63 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:49,440 Jason Friedman: We really get so focused on, fixated on, like, what we think and what we know, it's hard to kind 64 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,900 Jason Friedman: of flip the perspective around and look at it from a different angle, right? 65 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:59,400 Jason Friedman: Like 180 degrees off axis, so we're seeing it from that other perspective. 66 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:01,480 Jason Friedman: And so I think it's really important for all 67 00:04:01,500 --> 00:04:06,260 Jason Friedman: of us, especially if you're creating new products and inventing things to really get 68 00:04:06,260 --> 00:04:11,740 Jason Friedman: clear on that customer and what their needs and wants are and what their journey really is so 69 00:04:11,740 --> 00:04:15,000 Jason Friedman: that they can most effectively utilize the product. 70 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,340 Kevin Mako: Yeah, I appreciate that you mentioned that, especially for hardware startups, especially 71 00:04:18,340 --> 00:04:22,060 Kevin Mako: as inventors, innovators, engineers, designers, etc. 72 00:04:22,060 --> 00:04:27,280 Kevin Mako: You really get caught up in the weeds of your features and everything that's going in behind 73 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:31,480 Kevin Mako: the scenes to design, develop, prototype, test, manufacture that product. 74 00:04:31,500 --> 00:04:37,580 Kevin Mako: It's easy to get caught up in those details and then forget about what you're actually there to do. 75 00:04:37,580 --> 00:04:42,060 Kevin Mako: At the end of the day, you're there to build a product to help improve someone's life or help reduce 76 00:04:42,060 --> 00:04:43,300 Kevin Mako: a pain point that they have. 77 00:04:43,300 --> 00:04:48,080 Kevin Mako: So if you think about this customer-centric style of view, this customer-centric style of design, 78 00:04:48,460 --> 00:04:52,720 Kevin Mako: all the way through the development process, from the early ideation, all the way through to 79 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,920 Kevin Mako: and including manufacturing and so on into sales. 80 00:04:55,020 --> 00:05:01,100 Kevin Mako: And then, of course, after-sale support, the exponentially more valuable your product likely will be to that 81 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:06,300 Kevin Mako: customer. Now, you're a pro at this. This is all you do. You've been doing this for 30 years. 82 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,380 Kevin Mako: You've worked with literally thousands of small businesses and, of course, some major Fortune 500s, 83 00:05:11,380 --> 00:05:16,960 Kevin Mako: Fortune 100s at that, in addition to Ivy League schools like Harvard and so on. So you really 84 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:23,800 Kevin Mako: understand what it's like to have a brand, represent their product in the best possible light to the way 85 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,960 Kevin Mako: that the customers actually see it, to really empathize with the customer. So let's first talk about 86 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,860 Kevin Mako: customer journey because I think that is the foundation in the core of all the tips and tricks 87 00:05:33,860 --> 00:05:37,840 Kevin Mako: that get derived from really trying to understand best practices from customers so that our 88 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:42,100 Kevin Mako: hardware startups are listening today can think about how they can start applying this journey and 89 00:05:42,100 --> 00:05:47,960 Kevin Mako: those tips to their new hardware invention, both in development, onto sales, and then eventually into 90 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:52,360 Jason Friedman: after-sales support and the actual experience of the product itself. I think that's a great place to 91 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:57,180 Jason Friedman: start. And you said something that really resonates. And it's like you said that, you know, we get 92 00:05:57,180 --> 00:05:58,400 Jason Friedman: so caught up in all the features. 93 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,000 Jason Friedman: And we forget about all the benefits, right? 94 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,040 Jason Friedman: And so it's really important, like as you're an engineer and you're designing, you're developing, 95 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:11,000 Jason Friedman: you're creating these things, you really got to think about what's in it for the customer and 96 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,900 Jason Friedman: what the journey that they're having is, right? 97 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:14,960 Jason Friedman: those are more of the benefits. 98 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:15,960 Jason Friedman: Why is it going to help me? 99 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,120 Jason Friedman: How is it going to solve my problems? 100 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:22,880 Jason Friedman: And we oftentimes, like I know myself, like when I'm creating something, I start out with 101 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,980 Jason Friedman: this level of clarity that I believe I have about what the problem is. 102 00:06:26,980 --> 00:06:28,940 Jason Friedman: And then as I get into it, it starts. 103 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,500 Jason Friedman: to morph a little bit and I'm so in my zone and I'm so focused on that that that it takes 104 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:38,100 Jason Friedman: a turn at some point. I don't even realize I made a left and I needed to kind of stay straight. 105 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:44,500 Jason Friedman: And so as we start to step in the shoes of our customer and look through their glasses, 106 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:46,280 Jason Friedman: it changes the perspective of it. 107 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:50,400 Jason Friedman: So what is a customer journey, right? A customer journey is all the steps, all the touchpoints 108 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:56,020 Jason Friedman: that they have with your brand, with your product, with your service, and it starts even before 109 00:06:56,020 --> 00:06:58,520 Jason Friedman: they know that your product might exist, right? 110 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:02,720 Jason Friedman: Maybe they're researching to try and figure out, how do I solve this problem? 111 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:06,900 Jason Friedman: And so they go on this journey and they're really looking for something. 112 00:07:06,900 --> 00:07:09,860 Jason Friedman: And as they go through this, they're looking to see what's out there. 113 00:07:09,860 --> 00:07:15,400 Jason Friedman: And they have these cognitive biases, they have these perceptions that from experiences that they've 114 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,240 Jason Friedman: had in their past that guide them along their journey. 115 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:23,420 Jason Friedman: And so for you as a product inventor or a startup founder in one of these areas, you have to know 116 00:07:23,420 --> 00:07:26,000 Jason Friedman: so deeply, intimately who those customers are. 117 00:07:26,020 --> 00:07:28,020 Jason Friedman: and what's going on in that journey. 118 00:07:28,020 --> 00:07:32,200 Jason Friedman: Because if you're not clear on that, like the sales process isn't going to go smoothly 119 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,840 Jason Friedman: for them and then, you know, obviously it all falls apart. 120 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,020 Jason Friedman: So one of the tricks, I'm going to give you a couple of tips on how to think about doing 121 00:07:38,020 --> 00:07:39,520 Jason Friedman: this along the way if that's cool. 122 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,920 Jason Friedman: But yeah, so I'm recovering theater geek, right? 123 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:42,920 Jason Friedman: I was always in theater. 124 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,520 Jason Friedman: I was a behind the scenes kind of guy. 125 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,200 Jason Friedman: I did lighting and sets and things like that. 126 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:53,520 Jason Friedman: But what I learned in theater was how the process of storytelling goes. 127 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:54,520 Jason Friedman: And it really is a journey. 128 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:55,900 Jason Friedman: We're taking that audience. 129 00:07:56,020 --> 00:07:58,560 Jason Friedman: from where they enter, they come, they sit down in the theater, 130 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,780 Jason Friedman: and we're taking them on this roller coaster ride, 131 00:08:00,780 --> 00:08:02,780 Jason Friedman: that by the end of the show, they've been moved, 132 00:08:02,780 --> 00:08:05,120 Jason Friedman: they've been transformed, they believe, they bought in, 133 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,480 Jason Friedman: they get up and they give you a standing ovation at the end 134 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,240 Jason Friedman: because they really bought into the experience. 135 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:14,620 Jason Friedman: And the way that that happens is actors really have to get into character. 136 00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:17,880 Jason Friedman: They have to know how to play that role believably on stage. 137 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,420 Jason Friedman: And so for you as an inventor, I want you to figure out 138 00:08:20,420 --> 00:08:23,500 Jason Friedman: how could I play my customer on stage? 139 00:08:23,500 --> 00:08:26,000 Jason Friedman: Like if I had to get into character for that customer, 140 00:08:26,020 --> 00:08:31,260 Jason Friedman: and I can actually reliably and authentically deliver performance and that that really is them. 141 00:08:31,260 --> 00:08:32,260 Jason Friedman: What would it be? 142 00:08:32,260 --> 00:08:33,180 Jason Friedman: What's going through their mind? 143 00:08:33,180 --> 00:08:37,760 Jason Friedman: What are they thinking and expecting when they're researching for how to solve this problem? 144 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,560 Jason Friedman: What are the things that have happened in their life before that maybe they've tried and they 145 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:43,620 Jason Friedman: didn't work, that they're frustrated and they're angry about? 146 00:08:43,620 --> 00:08:46,480 Jason Friedman: And if they try your thing, even though it might be a little bit different, are they going to have 147 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:51,820 Jason Friedman: like this preconceived notion that your product's not going to work for them because of that belief 148 00:08:51,820 --> 00:08:53,260 Jason Friedman: that they're coming into it? 149 00:08:53,260 --> 00:08:56,000 Jason Friedman: If you get inside their mind and understand 150 00:08:56,020 --> 00:08:58,780 Jason Friedman: where they're coming from, you will win. 151 00:08:58,780 --> 00:09:01,920 Jason Friedman: Because you will be able to help them overcome those obstacles, 152 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:05,620 Jason Friedman: remove those, as we call them friction points from other pathway 153 00:09:05,620 --> 00:09:09,860 Jason Friedman: so they can more seamlessly flow down that pathway with you. 154 00:09:09,860 --> 00:09:12,060 Kevin Mako: You talk about smoothing out that pathway. 155 00:09:12,060 --> 00:09:13,980 Kevin Mako: Let's dive into the details a bit about that, 156 00:09:13,980 --> 00:09:15,820 Kevin Mako: but I'd like to look at it from two lenses. 157 00:09:15,820 --> 00:09:18,660 Kevin Mako: One, what are some of the exercises that you get inside the mind? 158 00:09:18,660 --> 00:09:19,980 Kevin Mako: I like how you mentioned play it out. 159 00:09:19,980 --> 00:09:22,220 Kevin Mako: So how does that actually look to really understand 160 00:09:22,220 --> 00:09:23,860 Kevin Mako: and empathize with what the customer is? 161 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:26,000 Kevin Mako: And then by using that information, 162 00:09:26,020 --> 00:09:32,620 Kevin Mako: How do you smooth out some of those friction points, as you mentioned, to basically get the customer to both learn about your product, 163 00:09:32,620 --> 00:09:37,500 Kevin Mako: then buy the product, and of course, love the product and be a lifelong raving fan of the product 164 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:39,780 Kevin Mako: brand because of that product? 165 00:09:39,780 --> 00:09:40,780 Jason Friedman: Yeah, great questions. 166 00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:43,780 Jason Friedman: First and foremost, like to get into character, right? 167 00:09:43,780 --> 00:09:47,520 Jason Friedman: So if you think about some of the famous actors, like Matthew McConaughey, right, like everyone 168 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:52,960 Jason Friedman: knows who he is or Robert De Niro, those are guys that went to the school of method acting, right? 169 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,000 Jason Friedman: And so when they get into character, they research the heck out of 170 00:09:56,020 --> 00:09:57,940 Jason Friedman: that person that they're gonna play. 171 00:09:57,940 --> 00:10:01,520 Jason Friedman: So if Matthew McConaughey's playing like an emaciated cancer patient, 172 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,280 Jason Friedman: he lost all the weight, like he got into character. 173 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,340 Jason Friedman: He figured out what it was like, what does it feel like, 174 00:10:06,340 --> 00:10:08,300 Jason Friedman: what is my body, where are the aches, where are the pains? 175 00:10:08,300 --> 00:10:09,800 Jason Friedman: Like, they go deep. 176 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:14,100 Jason Friedman: You don't have to do that, but you have to go in as deep as you can 177 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:15,940 Jason Friedman: to really understand what's going on. 178 00:10:15,940 --> 00:10:16,880 Jason Friedman: What are their challenges? 179 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:18,680 Jason Friedman: Who are they, like, where do they shop? 180 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:20,020 Jason Friedman: What brands do they like? 181 00:10:20,020 --> 00:10:21,220 Jason Friedman: What do they have for breakfast? 182 00:10:21,220 --> 00:10:22,480 Jason Friedman: Like what pisses them off? 183 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:23,980 Jason Friedman: What frustrates them? 184 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:25,620 Jason Friedman: Great places to look for this. 185 00:10:25,620 --> 00:10:28,320 Jason Friedman: Go and look on Amazon at other products that are similar 186 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,340 Jason Friedman: or other niches and see what the reviews are, 187 00:10:30,340 --> 00:10:32,180 Jason Friedman: where the people are complaining. 188 00:10:32,180 --> 00:10:35,200 Jason Friedman: Look at the negative feedback or positive feedback 189 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:36,740 Jason Friedman: or what people love about products. 190 00:10:36,740 --> 00:10:38,160 Jason Friedman: But there's tons of that out there 191 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,880 Jason Friedman: so that you can get a lot of great detail 192 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:41,740 Jason Friedman: about what's frustrating people. 193 00:10:41,740 --> 00:10:44,200 Jason Friedman: You can type into Google and just start searching 194 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:45,440 Jason Friedman: how to, blah, blah, blah, 195 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,200 Jason Friedman: start going down that road and see what the suggestions 196 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,900 Jason Friedman: that Google puts up of the most common searches. 197 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:52,280 Jason Friedman: You'll start to see the questions 198 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,860 Jason Friedman: that those people are asking. 199 00:10:53,860 --> 00:10:55,600 Jason Friedman: And you'll get a lot of clarity about 200 00:10:55,620 --> 00:10:59,160 Jason Friedman: really who your customer is and what's going on inside their head. 201 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,240 Jason Friedman: So start there, right? 202 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,500 Jason Friedman: You'll have a wealth of information and talk to people. 203 00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:07,240 Jason Friedman: Seek out your ideal customers and talk to them. 204 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:08,060 Jason Friedman: Have a conversation. 205 00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:09,080 Jason Friedman: Buy them a cup of coffee. 206 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,100 Jason Friedman: Have a cold beer with them. 207 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:11,660 Jason Friedman: Whatever tickles your fancy, right? 208 00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:17,880 Jason Friedman: But start to really do some deep dives into that because what will also happen is you'll get 209 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:23,360 Jason Friedman: the words, the real words that they use, and that will become such powerful marketing, 210 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,520 Jason Friedman: messaging in your sales process. 211 00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:29,560 Jason Friedman: and in your fulfillment process of really helping them use the product 212 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:31,760 Jason Friedman: and see what things are going to be in their way. 213 00:11:32,140 --> 00:11:34,640 Jason Friedman: So that's where I would start, you know, out of the gate. 214 00:11:35,140 --> 00:11:35,600 Kevin Mako: That's powerful. 215 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:36,960 Kevin Mako: That's a lot of information. 216 00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:39,520 Kevin Mako: That's a lot of things that if you're an inventor or startup listening today, 217 00:11:39,620 --> 00:11:43,360 Kevin Mako: you can start acting on these at any point in time in your actual journey. 218 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,860 Kevin Mako: And if you replay that section a bit, 219 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,140 Kevin Mako: Jason's told you a whole bunch of different, 220 00:11:48,340 --> 00:11:52,100 Kevin Mako: very specific, very tactful ways that you can get started on this journey, 221 00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:54,900 Kevin Mako: just in a very basic level to start, get that information, 222 00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:59,180 Kevin Mako: and understand your customer, get in their mind, and start writing it down, get it documented, 223 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,600 Kevin Mako: make sure that you're following along, documented all these things so that when you really get 224 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,320 Kevin Mako: to understand the customer, now we go into the next part, which I'd love to hear about Jason. 225 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,240 Kevin Mako: We'll wrap the show up with here for getting into some of the best practices that you have and some of 226 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:12,400 Kevin Mako: the service offerings that you have. 227 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:16,300 Kevin Mako: Once you figure out that customer, how do you actually reduce the friction to get them to 228 00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:18,180 Kevin Mako: be a customer and then love your product? 229 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,180 Jason Friedman: Yeah, so I like to think about it as absolutely gaming the system, right? 230 00:12:23,180 --> 00:12:24,880 Jason Friedman: I want you to reverse engine. 231 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:30,540 Jason Friedman: success. And so the way I like to do this is I like to create what's called an ideal customer 232 00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:36,640 Jason Friedman: script. I want you to actually write the perfect customer testimonial. Like they just use your product 233 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:41,800 Jason Friedman: and it did everything that they can imagine. I want you to write with lots of juicy adjectives and 234 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:45,820 Jason Friedman: lots of great words. What are they telling somebody about that product? Like, oh my gosh, 235 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,620 Jason Friedman: Kevin, I just bought your product and it was amazing. Like when I was looking for this, 236 00:12:49,620 --> 00:12:53,940 Jason Friedman: I was like, there's nothing out there that's of quality. But then I found your product. And I started 237 00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:58,220 Jason Friedman: reading the reviews and people were talking about blah blah blah blah I knew I had to try it. 238 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,840 Jason Friedman: I couldn't wait for the product like hit my doorstep. And when it did, I ripped the box open. 239 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:08,220 Jason Friedman: I got the product and oh my God, like it was immediately magical. Like whatever they're going to say, 240 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:14,000 Jason Friedman: right? Write what that is and get details. Like imagine it. Make it up. What you know about your 241 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,700 Jason Friedman: customer and you know about your product. Marry that together. Once you've kind of figured out what 242 00:13:18,700 --> 00:13:23,920 Jason Friedman: that ideal testimonial or raving fan statement would be, then we're going to 243 00:13:23,940 --> 00:13:28,880 Jason Friedman: reverse engineer? How do we put things along that journey that are going to help them to say those 244 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,240 Jason Friedman: words? How do we take things out of the way that are happening right now that might be stopping them 245 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:39,880 Jason Friedman: from actually taking action and using the product? How do we take things out of the way that are 246 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:46,260 Jason Friedman: confusing them? How do we make it less confusing? How do we set their expectations right from the start 247 00:13:46,260 --> 00:13:51,440 Jason Friedman: as to what the process looks like and what they have to do? How do they get the value and the results 248 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:57,600 Jason Friedman: from that? And so if you start at the end, you write that script, then you reverse engineer all the 249 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:03,840 Jason Friedman: little steps along the way, they will more than likely say those words and feel compelled to actually 250 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,920 Jason Friedman: start leaving positive reviews for you because they were so wowed by the experience. 251 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,960 Kevin Mako: That's such a great strategy. Love it. And I know that you do a lot of this work right now. Talk a bit 252 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:19,360 Kevin Mako: bit about what CXFormula is doing, helping emerging startups go through this very journey and make sure 253 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:20,566 Kevin Mako: that they get it done right. 254 00:14:20,566 --> 00:14:21,040 Jason Friedman: Absolutely. 255 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:22,440 Jason Friedman: Thanks for that. 256 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:25,440 Jason Friedman: You know, so we have a program that we call the kinetic customer formula. 257 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,880 Jason Friedman: And the premise is this, you have prospects with potential. 258 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,180 Jason Friedman: If you go back to physics class in the old days, there's two types of energy. 259 00:14:32,180 --> 00:14:36,520 Jason Friedman: Potential energy, which is energy that has the ability or the potential to do work, but it's 260 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:37,780 Jason Friedman: stagnant. 261 00:14:37,780 --> 00:14:39,060 Jason Friedman: And then there's kinetic energy. 262 00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:40,060 Jason Friedman: That's energy in motion. 263 00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:41,060 Jason Friedman: That's doing the work. 264 00:14:41,060 --> 00:14:46,800 Jason Friedman: We want to take these prospects with potential and turn them into active, engaged, action-taking, 265 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:51,380 Jason Friedman: raving fans, people who rave about your products and services, people who renew their 266 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,500 Jason Friedman: subscriptions and their memberships, maybe for your fulfillment products, people that return 267 00:14:55,500 --> 00:15:00,480 Jason Friedman: to you to buy more of your products, and people who recruit others to try out your products. 268 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,040 Jason Friedman: We call that the R4 ideal. 269 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,540 Jason Friedman: That's the ideal result. 270 00:15:03,540 --> 00:15:05,380 Jason Friedman: Rave, return, renew, and recruit. 271 00:15:05,380 --> 00:15:09,800 Jason Friedman: And so when you go through our program, we teach you how to go deeper into the minds of your 272 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,400 Jason Friedman: customer like we started today. 273 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,840 Jason Friedman: We go through that whole reverse engineering process, and we go through all the different things. 274 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,740 Jason Friedman: There's four key factors that you really have to get clear on to engineer that customer 275 00:15:19,740 --> 00:15:21,420 Jason Friedman: journey and turn it from a journey. 276 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:25,120 Jason Friedman: that's passive into a pathway that's active. 277 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,900 Jason Friedman: That's like a water slide that's just kind of flowing them down the journey so that they get to 278 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:30,060 Jason Friedman: that ideal result. 279 00:15:30,060 --> 00:15:34,540 Jason Friedman: And so we're proud to have, you know, been working with entrepreneurs, like you said earlier, thousands 280 00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:36,320 Jason Friedman: of entrepreneurs over the years. 281 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,180 Jason Friedman: This is the newest and latest, greatest version of our program. 282 00:15:39,180 --> 00:15:41,440 Jason Friedman: It's probably the thing that we're the most proud of. 283 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:45,040 Jason Friedman: If you're interested to check it out, you can always go to our website, cxformula.com, and 284 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:46,040 Jason Friedman: learn more about that. 285 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:51,040 Jason Friedman: But Kevin, I also want to give your audience a special gift of a strategy, 286 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:56,860 Jason Friedman: that is going to kind of blow their mind around how to think about this and a tactic that they can 287 00:15:56,860 --> 00:15:59,040 Jason Friedman: actually execute on this strategy right away. 288 00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:01,380 Jason Friedman: And so I'm not going to tell you what it is. 289 00:16:01,620 --> 00:16:03,380 Jason Friedman: This is like the dangling carrot, right? 290 00:16:03,420 --> 00:16:05,140 Jason Friedman: If you want it, you got to go check it out. 291 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:11,680 Jason Friedman: Just go to gift.cfarmula.com slash mako and download it. 292 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:12,100 Jason Friedman: It's free. 293 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:13,140 Jason Friedman: There's no strings attached. 294 00:16:13,140 --> 00:16:16,420 Jason Friedman: All I ask is that if you download it, actually open it up. 295 00:16:16,420 --> 00:16:18,640 Jason Friedman: Take the five minutes and read through it. 296 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,020 Jason Friedman: And if you think it's pretty cool, show you. 297 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:22,500 Jason Friedman: shoot me an email and just tell me what you thought. 298 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,380 Jason Friedman: Like you'll literally, my email address is in there. 299 00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:25,420 Jason Friedman: You'll email me directly. 300 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:26,600 Jason Friedman: I'll write back to you. 301 00:16:26,820 --> 00:16:29,760 Jason Friedman: I just want to know what you think and how you might use it. 302 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,060 Jason Friedman: And if you think it sucks, tell me that too. 303 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:32,600 Jason Friedman: I want to know. 304 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,280 Jason Friedman: I want all the feedback I can get. 305 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,960 Jason Friedman: But it's a gift for you for listening to this episode and, you know, being a fan of Kevin's. 306 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:42,760 Jason Friedman: Like I'm super excited that I was able to be here and share some of these insights. 307 00:16:43,500 --> 00:16:44,980 Kevin Mako: Jason, much appreciated for that. 308 00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:47,980 Kevin Mako: And for anyone listening in, I'll also put the link directly to that below. 309 00:16:47,980 --> 00:16:51,020 Kevin Mako: So you can just click through, download that free info. 310 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:56,700 Kevin Mako: and use it to learn about some of the more advanced strategies about some of what we talked about today. 311 00:16:56,940 --> 00:17:00,580 Kevin Mako: And more, Jason, which appreciate it for having you on the show and look forward to talking again soon. 312 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:01,400 Jason Friedman: Yeah, I love to, man. 313 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:02,200 Jason Friedman: Thank you so much. 314 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:02,700 Kevin Mako: Thanks. 315 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:03,220 Kevin Mako: Take care. 316 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,360 Kevin Mako: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of the Product Startup Podcast. 317 00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:12,900 Kevin Mako: If you found some value in the show, please do us a huge favor and hit the like button and subscribe. 318 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:19,240 Kevin Mako: If you have any questions, guest suggestions, or anything else, feel free to reach out to us anytime at our email, 319 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,120 Kevin Mako: podcast at MakoDesign.com. 320 00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:27,960 Kevin Mako: This show is hosted by Kevin Mako, North America's leading expert on product development for hardware 321 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,800 Kevin Mako: startups, and the podcast is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing 322 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,920 Kevin Mako: end-to-end consumer product development services tailored specifically to hardware 323 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,680 Kevin Mako: startups, small manufacturers, and inventors. 324 00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:44,000 Kevin Mako: Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. 325 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,080 Kevin Mako: That's M-A-K-O-Design.com. 326 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,180 Jason Friedman: Thanks for joining and see you again. 327 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:49,540 Jason Friedman: soon.