Judy McGee, Penny Girls Rescue.

Thanks, Judy, for appearing on the Adventures in the Heart of Children's Book Authors podcast.

Judy has mentioned she's written the children's book Penny Girl's Rescue, and I look forward to our conversation.

Before we get into the details of your book, Judy, I would love to find out a little bit about what brought you to children's book authorship.

Can you tell us the story about what brought being a children's book author means to you?

I decided to write a story about my dog Penny that we adopted because I wanted to give her a voice.

I could see that she'd been through a lot.

I wrote the story actually on the way to pick her up at the transport in Niagara on the Lake Ontario.

And on the way, we had three and a half hours to put in and I just asked myself the question, how will this dog feel after all she's been through?

She lived free.

Then she was put in a high kill shelter and then she wondered what was going to happen to her.

And then she's in a truck traveling 2,400 km from Texas, USA to Canada to meet who?

US.

So just wondered how this dog would feel.

It's an incredible story because I have to tell you one of my first guests, Aaron Murphy on episode 15.

She's a commercial airplane pilot and in her spare time flies animals around the country for the SPCA to make sure that they go from where they may not have any chance at adoption to somewhere where they're waiting to have animals to adopt.

That's wonderful.

I know Aaron.

Oh, do you know Aaron?

We.

I met her online and we talked back and forth because of our stories.

I think that brought us together.

Oh, that is terrific.

I just think it's so admirable what you're both doing and we'll get more into your story.

Did you ever think, I want to be a children's book author?

Was there any foundation for this prior to you adopting your dog Penny Girl?

Yes, Penny Girl is her fond name that my husband, Strange started calling her.

So that's why we decided to call the book that.

Before Penny Girl came into your life, did you have any inspiration at all about being a children's book author?

No.

I was actually a X ray and ultrasound technologist in my former life.

Okay.

This whole inspiration started for you as a children's book author the moment you decided that you wanted to a doctor, a rescue dog?

No, actually, it happened that the story was written and sitting on my phone for four years.

I had retired from ultrasound and it was 2020.

Toby, our previous dog, had passed away.

My heart was torn out, and I said to my husband, I want to try rescuing a dog in our lifetime.

So it was after, like, probably four years later that I decided to take a children's writing course.

I saw online, took it, and thought, geez, I already have a story that I could publish.

So that's where I decided to actually, the story was triple the size it is.

It was divided into three stories.

So Penny Girl's Rescue is book one.

It's always interesting, too.

When I talk to most children's book authors, there's generally a no one and done.

And in your case, you actually wrote three books in one, even though it maybe at the time, you didn't realize you had three children's books in one writing.

That's right.

Even when I took the children's course, I thought I intended this book to be a early chapter book, and that's why it was 3,000 words long and probably going to get longer.

But after doing the children's picture picture book course, I thought, geez, I could split this up and it would be really fun to put these nice pictures to tell the story and have younger kids learn about dog rescue and adoption.

What's amazing, too, is that on the show we talk about a children's picture book is between 500 and 1,000 words.

And so at the time you wrote it, you didn't realize, oh, I got 3,000 words.

Now I've got three children's picture books or the foundation for them.

Pretty amazing.

Thank you.

When you were putting this all together, did you think about your children's book business plan?

Did you have a business plan for your children's book?

No, no.

That's all I've been learning as I.

Go, and that's what I find.

I find most children's book authors, their whole goal is to actually be able to get a published children's book in their hands that they can flip through and go, oh, my goodness, look at this.

This is fantastic.

And that's the big thing.

The now what?

It's always interesting because then you start down the road, and I noticed you have three formats.

You have a soft cover, a hardcover, and an ebook.

So, yes.

Was there a strategy behind each one of those formats, or did you just think, you know what?

I need all three of these formats.

Like, how did that journey for you start?

I'm hybrid published through Miriam Laundrie Publishing, and they suggested having all three because the hardcover is very good in a school situation where it's being used a lot and in the library, whereas.

But it's more expensive.

So a lot of people, especially purchasing online, a soft cover is all they want to spend the money on.

Then there's the next level of people, or same people that want to have a book to have on their child's tablet, which is nice for traveling and not having to bring all the books with you, so you just have them right on there.

They suggested that it certainly helps.

I've been interviewed over 50 children's book authors, and in the beginning, I was trying to support each guest and buy the soft cover version.

And my wife said, oh, my goodness, like, where are you going to put all of these books out if you keep interviewing children's book authors?

And eventually I just had to decide that the tablet would be a good place to have the library.

And that's true.

As you can see, when I was showing you, we downloaded your book.

It looks beautiful.

It's very vibrant on an iPad.

It's nice.

It's not the same as holding a book.

Holding a book, but in some cases, that just happens to be the way it works out.

And when you were talking to Miriam Laundrie Publishing and they recommended all three formats, how did they see the ebook?

Was there other applications they had said to you were possible?

She is.

I'm not sure about that.

The only reason I ask is we talked a little bit about did you have a business book plan?

And most people like ourselves, they didn't have a comprehensive book plan.

But a lot of times, if you're going to reach out and appear on podcast shows or do a radio show, TV or whatever, it's always nice to maybe have an e book.

I just thought about that.

I do ebook promos with There's a group of us, and it really brings in sales by offering your book online.

So you can make it free for one or two or three days.

People can download it and it really helps to get reviews.

And also somebody downloads it, reads it, enjoys it, they start talking about it, and before you know it, you have some more sales.

So it's great for that.

Tell us a little bit about that, because I've heard of it, but I've never talked to a children's book author directly about that relationship.

So expand on that because we also get aspiring children's book authors listening in and they're always looking for, how do I support my book?

Can you explain that method with the ebook and other authors?

When I was getting my launch team ready, I just went online on Instagram, Facebook, Instagram mostly, and looked for other children's authors.

And I stumbled across Discover Kids Books, which is a huge group of authors online.

And they.

We support each other.

So Discover Kids Books and you can join it.

And we have a promo group and then we have a chat group.

So the chat group, you can talk about whatever you want.

You put a question in there, no matter what it is, you don't have to feel dumb.

Somebody either has been there, done that, knows the answer, and it might take a couple of days to get it, but you will get a reply from someone.

So as time goes on, somebody says, what do you think about, for instance, for Christmas?

What about we do a promo for Christmas where.

Because we showcase our books and wait, put the word out there and people can join in, whoever's on Discover Kids Books and they make a post and you're all part of that, but then you share it all over the place.

So you have it on your Instagram.

But if you have 150 authors, which we do on there now, they're all sharing it.

So you have several days or one day of free promo that goes all over the place and you get your books downloaded and get a lot of reviews.

Oh, amazing.

That's really great.

Yeah, I love it.

It's on Instagram only.

Instagram.

Discover Kids Books can look it up and you can request to join.

And then they have rules for the group and you just agree to them and join the group and you're welcomed with open arms.

Everybody's so supportive and friendly and welcoming.

It's really nice.

Is there authors from all over the world?

All over the world, but yeah, primarily the States.

Quite a few from Canada I'm meeting, which is very nice.

A few from around the world, which is fun.

Great.

So have you started on your Christmas promo?

Yeah, and then I have another group that I met this other girl online.

Her name is Kim Ann and she lives actually in California.

And she loves to do these either physical book promos or ebooks.

So we're doing both of those physical book.

You decide if you want to be involved and you send your books down to her and she'll offer three to five physical book giveaway promos, like a big gift basket.

And she's doing this for quite a few years and some of the authors as well.

So I joined in thinking, I wonder where this is going to go.

My book, Penny Girl Zorascu, is starting to get all over the.

She's in the States.

So all over the states you can win the gift pack if you're from Canada as well.

But you have to have a P.O.

box.

So it tends to be the people from states that where the book goes, geez, I don't mind.

I'm happy to have it going where it is.

So each time there's a promo, it's.

She's got influencers on our.

We gather an email list from it.

Okay.

So that's what you get from it.

You get an email list and it's building your email list so you can market.

Is this a website or Instagram?

Instagram Kim.

She's on Facebook and Instagram.

But you find her on.

For these promo.

It's Kim in book promos, ebook, and then there's physical promos.

So there's two different groups that you can join.

You can just ask to join and she'll say the more the merrier.

Oh, terrific.

And the physical books, then they get put into.

You send down three to five copies and then she builds out three to five baskets.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

So you send down.

I sent five.

This time there's going to be five baskets.

Mail them down and you can send swag if you want.

Which I just sent to Penny Girl Stickers.

And I have some free Penny Girl mazes I had made up by a teacher for me for three different age groups.

Those will go into the gift pack.

So as she receives your book goes on Instagram and she takes a picture of it.

Received this book today.

So that gives you a little more traction just there having it out there.

And then as she receives them all, they.

It gets closer to the event.

We're just going to be starting this.

There's an ebook promo on.

It's fun and adventure books.

A wide range because there's a wide range of authors and they'll be free.

November 4th, 5th and 6th, people can go on and build their children's ebook library.

And then in return, we get an email from them and they agree to review our books, which is really nice because it's great to get more reviews.

Terrific.

That's good to know.

And thank you for sharing that because that's definitely more in depth than I've had anyone else talk about.

And you never know what these things is.

It's nice to have a guest on that's had experience with this and you've done it multiple times now.

Yeah, this will be my fourth time.

Okay.

Confirms for people listening is that it's something legitimate and that you could reach out to Kim and reach out to the other group that you mentioned and.

You get the email list at the end.

And it's a good list.

People have to the signup process.

They have to agree to follow the authors and then agreed to take emails from us.

Part of it's like vetting them.

Yes.

So then at the end of each promo, actually have 1500 email subscribers now.

From doing these.

Yeah, from doing these promos.

And this is the fourth one, the last one, we got 700 emails.

Wow.

Just for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We'll get into your email list in a bit because I'd like to delve deeper because this is fantastic stuff.

People always say, you know what, Rick, your questions are similar.

And I say they are, but the answers and the information that our guests share is totally different.

And there's always these incredible nuggets.

We'll come back to your email list in a moment because I'd like to talk a little bit about your publishing approach.

I know you use Miriam Laundrie.

Judy.

I bet you I've had maybe 15, 20% of the children's book author guests I've had on the podcast show have used Miriam Laundrie.

Obviously she does a good job.

Yes.

So tell us about that experience for you.

It's hybrid publishing and it's.

They give you a CBM manual.

It's a manual that you get online and then you end up saving it at the end.

And it has everything you could ever want.

Takes you through from the very beginning of writing to editing, hiring an illustrator.

Illustrator Agreement takes you through all those things and you're assigned an author coach.

I had.

She was wonderful.

And so every month you get a meeting with them for half an hour.

But during the month, if you have any questions, you can email them and they'll answer you pretty quickly within a day or so.

And so just to keep you on track there too, they.

They have a plan for.

We're going to publish you within a year.

And so this is the plan.

We have to stay on a plan.

So by whatever date this is, you have to have your illustrations started and then by this date they have to be completed.

And then we're going to put the words on the page to make sure everything's works out properly.

And you have to hand it all in by 10 weeks before your launch date.

So they keep you on task for that, getting it in for the formatting and printing and all that stuff and help you figure out what size you want.

I didn't realize how much went into this.

I really appreciate it when I pick a book up now, like just reading to my kids years ago.

You just pick the book up and read it.

You don't realize what went into the book.

Absolutely.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Yeah.

When you look at all the options, the print options.

I know, I know.

First you gotta get your number of pages, get the right text on the page and all that stuff.

But they were great in keeping you on task, which is very important when you.

When you're a course like that.

They've got new people starting, so they have to get this group published so that they can get on with the next group.

I. I went on your website, great website, and I was looking at it, and you mentioned the two more books in the works, and you have them on your website.

Is your intention to continue to use this hybrid Miriam Laundry publishing format?

Actually, no.

I'm doing.

I'm publishing my second book with Moondust Publishing.

They are a traditional publisher.

I decided to go that route because I found it daunting to do all the marketing myself.

And I felt maybe this would be a better option for me.

We'll see what happens.

It's called Moondust Publishing.

Yes.

Okay.

And are they out of Canada or the United States?

Out of the States.

Okay.

And very small, fairly new publishing company.

Did you approach them or did they approach you?

I approached them because one of the authors that I met through the author group, the Discover Kids books, was published by them.

So I approached her and then she had great things to say about them.

When I looked on their website, they were open for submissions.

And so I thought, hey, I'll just put my second book and my manuscript's ready.

I couldn't believe it.

I got it.

A note back.

Rehearsing.

Your writing is stellar.

And I'm like, what?

It was just so shocking and just exciting to read that.

And so when you say traditional, explain that approach, because generally, as a traditional publisher, they take all the rights from you.

My story will be theirs.

But we're doing it a little different.

Just because she loved the story.

I said to her, the only thing is, I want to decide the pictures, because I decided every picture in my other book and where everything was on the page.

And so we decided we had a little bit different agreement, which is I hired my own illustrator.

And once the pictures are all ready, they will go to her, but the pictures will be owned by me.

So it's going to be a little bit different.

In the end, I will get 25% of the sales of the book.

Okay.

And that's because you're supplying the illustrations and we might as well Just jump into the illustration part for a moment because we're there is.

Are you using the same illustrator as you did in your first book?

No, I am not.

And that is because we can't find her anywhere.

She's disappeared off of platform we used was Fiverr.

And I cried over that.

Couldn't find her anywhere after she promised to do my three books, at least.

Okay.

Geez.

I went through four other illustrators before I decided on the one I'm using because I really wanted some continuity in the story, the sort of look of it.

They are a bit more vibrant, but they flow with, I think, the vibrancy.

I discussed this with my publisher too, shows a positive time in Penny's life where she has made it to the place where we're going to meet her at the transport.

She's been adopted and she's going to be coming home with us.

Very good point.

Yeah, Yeah.

A nice transition, like a noticeable one, like you said, in a stage in Penny's life where she is taking on her forever home.

Great idea.

So this will be fun for you because you've gone the hybrid publishing route with your first book, you're going to go traditional publishing with your second book.

And then with your third book, have you locked up the illustrator, at least for the third book, without having to commit to which way you're going to publish your third book?

Yes, I've locked her up.

Yes.

And with the third book or any other books, I have agreed with this Moondust Publishing that I will.

Any further ones I write of this series, the Penny Girl series, I will do with them.

Your third book will definitely be with Moondust because of the series.

Now, what about their involvement in your first book?

Have you guys come to an agreement or how are you working your first book in the series?

I'm just selling that myself and we haven't discussed that.

Really.

Oh, I wonder what will happen with that.

I don't know.

I don't know.

We haven't discussed that.

Okay.

The only reason I bring that up is I know that I'm sure anybody who's an aspiring author is thinking, oh, this is a different approach, but what do I do about my first book?

Now, I did talk to a author in Oklahoma, and he did his first book.

It was a series.

When he was approached by a traditional publisher, he created a contract with them to take on the first book.

And I think the royalties are a little richer for him because of that first book that he did all the work himself in the beginning.

It might be an Episode to listen to.

I did it recently, episode 53.

His name is Bart Taylor.

If you listen to that episode, he does talk about that transition.

I don't know exactly where it is in the podcast interview, but you can see that I've said that by chapter, so you might be able to scroll down and see where it is that you might find that of interest.

I will, yeah, no problem.

Thank you for sharing that.

Because again, I'm hoping that for the guests, they get some nuggets out of this.

And this is definitely something.

I've heard of it before, but not thinking the whole process through.

How do you transition from publishing one way to publishing now more of a traditional way.

So good for you.

That's going to be fun.

She also said to me, so Once we hit 300 copies, we wanted to redo the COVID Okay.

And I said, okay, but I want to have something to do with the artwork.

She agrees.

Okay.

The COVID You're talking about your second book.

Second book, yeah.

We don't even have the COVID yet because we're two thirds of the way through the illustrations.

Okay, terrific.

Good for you.

Good for you.

Yeah.

I noticed also one unique feature in your book, it's the recognition of the Niagara Dog Rescue.

So tell us about that relationship.

How did that come about and why are you introducing it to your readers?

I wanted it to my book to be true.

There's a lot of facts about Penny's life in the story, so there's fiction.

Obviously, the animals don't have names and all those things.

Right.

But I put fact with fiction.

So Niagara Dog Rescue.

Once we decided we were going to adopt, I looked at a number of sites.

It was Covid.

So nobody was going anywhere.

Nobody was letting you come and look at dogs.

You had to do everything online.

So I ended up on Niagara Dog Rescue.

Niagara is because I grew up over there.

My father was from a small town between Niagara on the lake and Niagara Falls.

It's called Queenston, Ontario.

Okay.

And so I guess I was drawn to the name because of that Niagara.

I ended up on there and just fell in love with Penny's bio.

We applied to adopt her and got accepted.

That's how we ended up with them.

I wanted their name in it.

I actually got the.

The organizer of Niagara Dog Rescue to.

She's got her recommendation on the back of the book, and it's been a bit of a strange relationship with them.

Originally, when I launched my book, I approached them and asked if we could.

I could launch on their Facebook site, there's A Facebook page.

You're invited to anybody that rescues a dog from them.

There's a Facebook group that you get to join, and everybody shows off their dogs and asks problems and issues and whatever.

In my mind, I thought, wouldn't it be great to, since she's a Niagara dog, rescue dog, have my book on there, but support them?

So each sale would support them, and I would give them a portion of my sales.

We went back and forth for months on this, and I couldn't get an answer.

It turned out that they really weren't interested in doing that.

I was surprised and a little hurt that they wouldn't be interested in letting me do something like that.

They said that it would be.

If they did it for me, they'd have to do it for everybody.

I guess they're a big corporation and they don't need the.

I thought they would want the money from the sales.

Yeah.

Because generally, most of these places are always doing big fundraising to keep the doors open.

Yeah.

So I don't.

Yeah.

I don't understand.

I finally dropped it.

I did say to them, kim, is there something we could work out?

If you don't want to do, that's fine.

But Penny's a Niagara dog rescue dog.

You're on the back of the book.

Can we do something?

She told me this girl who was in charge of their promos and things said to me, if I can find a location to do a book signing, slash dog adoption, like puppies, then she would do it.

I found one at a library near me in Trenton, and she ended up telling me it was too far to bring the dogs.

I finally decided to give up on it.

She told me that they would.

They would prefer to do something near Niagara.

And I said, that'd be great.

I said, how would we do that?

And she said, I'll let you know when we find the event.

All you have to do is show up.

But I've never heard from them.

So what I did was I thought, okay, let's just forget that.

We'll move on.

And so I've supported our.

The Hastings, Prince Edward county, which is where I live, the area Humane Society.

I did an event.

Yeah, I did an event in the summer called Wiggle Waggle Walkathon.

And it was down by the.

Yeah, it was in Trenton.

Here, down by the water.

Very successful.

They raised $38,000, which goes to look after dogs that they're waiting to be adopted.

So I did that, and I've done a couple of my shows where I collect donations towards it.

Or give a portion of my sales as well.

I got in touch with the SPCA out this way.

It's called the Lennox Addington spca.

And so I've done a book signing dog adoption with them in one of the little pet stores, which is called Paul Max.

And we're going to just do different things like that.

What sales I make, I don't pay to have a table there.

I give them a portion of my sales and donate it.

That's what I've decided to do instead.

And you know what, Judy, hat's off to you because you could have got totally frustrated and said, forget it altogether.

At the end of the day, what you want to do was help other dog rescues and that's what you've done.

If your book had the twists and turns a bit, I think the lesson is.

And thank you for sharing that is, folks, stay with it.

If you're a whole hard is about helping dog rescues like Judy has done, then I can't think of a greater thing to do.

Thank you.

Thank you for sharing that.

I also wrote stories written from Penny's point of view to give a voice to these dogs.

It's just a little different than other stories that are out there.

And that's why I did it.

I just thought Penny's really telling the story.

How I envision what would happen to her if I was taken from freedom and put in a cage and given different food and people and all those things.

We wouldn't like it too much.

No, that's for sure.

And.

And it's great.

We were talking about Aaron Murphy earlier yourself.

If it wasn't for folks like you with a big heart.

Wow.

So again, thank you.

Congratulations and hats off to you for doing that.

Thanks.

Tell us a bit about your website.

Some children's book authors, most have a website and I find that a lot of children's book authors like ourselves, for example, somebody said, oh, where's your home?

And I said, what do you mean home?

And they said, where's your home for your book?

And they were referring to a website.

We ended up creating our website after we launched your book.

Tell us about your website journey and how it's developing.

My husband's got pulled into my home.

Yes.

He didn't.

He wanted me to have this and he's still working at home.

But anyways, he's a computer programmer.

So I said to him, geez, we could pay somebody to do a website.

I really need one because I want to have a place to tell about myself, do a couple of Blogs and tell more about Penny and the process behind the book and how it developed.

And so he ended up doing the website.

We used wix, but he did the whole website for me.

Thank you.

I wanted a place to.

We had a little video made before the book launched.

I wanted people to see that and see when my next books were coming up and what's happening with those great blogs on there.

So I have a blog in there about my grandson.

Asher is disabled, he has autism.

And Penny became somewhat of an emotional support dog towards him and still is.

So he has high anxiety ash.

And he'll come and lie with Penny.

Penny just loves it.

She's a bigger dog.

She's black lab pit bull.

So she's got muscle.

And he'll just lie with her, lie on her, lie against her, and she just absorbs whatever anxiety the kid has.

So it was actually Niagara Dog Rescue that asked me when I told one of the girls that works there about this relationship, she said, would you write a blog for Niagara Dog Rescue?

So I did, and it's on their website.

So I decided to share it online.

Cause it's a special story and there's a couple of pictures there that are fun too.

Terrific.

Terrific.

And just so everyone knows, we will definitely link to Judy's website and you can read all about Judy's grandson and his relationship with Penny.

That's beautiful.

Your social media.

And it's interesting because I looked at your followers on Facebook and then I looked at your Instagram followers, and I noticed your Instagram followers are about 10 times as large as your Facebook followers.

And I think that probably has something to do with the story that you told us in the beginning.

Is that true?

Discover Kids being on Instagram?

Yes, it is.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Because you talked about the email list and we'll jump into that right after this question.

But tell us about how this whole relationship.

What kind of numbers did you have with Instagram before you started with Discover Kids?

And then all of a sudden, how did you.

Oh, I probably had it in the low hundreds.

Okay.

But I tend to.

I really interacting with everybody.

I love hearing about their stories and things.

So I tend to go on a. I go onto the Discover Kids thing and I will like everybody's things or go onto their post and really have a look at them and I want to see because I'll find something different that I haven't done that I. Oh, that's a great idea.

Or they'll have stickers or something different that I haven't tried, and I'll like them and start a conversation with them.

I love to do it with other Canadians as well.

It's so funny.

There seems to be not very many of us, but there are a lot.

It's just that we don't have a Canadian flag out there.

I don't disguise that I'm Canadian.

Our show originates out of Canada.

Tell us about this whole development with your journey.

Low hundreds on Instagram to now thousands on Instagram.

Tell us about how that's helped your.

Your book sales.

The more posts you make, the more you got to do it regularly.

I'm not as great as that.

It took me a long time being older.

I'm 66, and it was very new for me, other than just posting about my family on Facebook.

It took me a long time to.

To really get out there.

And you're serving yourself up on a platter, right?

Absolutely.

Like, I had that imposter syndrome.

Here I was an ultrasound tech, registered ultrasound tech, doing that for 36 years, and it's like having to tell all my friends, family, and everybody, oh, this is what I'm doing now.

And they're like, what?

It's really funny.

But, yeah.

So getting more followers is just interacting, I think getting in because other people want you to like what they're doing as well.

And that will get a conversation going.

And then before you know it, you have several other people getting involved.

Every time you do that, you get a bunch of followers.

You follow each other reviewing books for each other.

I try and help out that way.

So I think all of that increases your followers on Instagram before you know it.

That's terrific.

Yeah.

So when you launched your first book, did you have many followers?

Like, how did you use your social media to promote Penny Girls Rescue?

I literally went through every friend I had on Facebook and wrote to them individually, texted them, and asked them if they would support me.

Because even when I first announced that's what I was doing.

When I changed to my author page, I found a lot of people.

Everybody thinks everybody's scamming each other.

A lot of people thought it was scamming.

Had one of my friends from high school report Facebook.

It was an imposter, and it wasn't me.

And I wrote her and I said, terry, it's me.

And she said, oh, I'm so sorry.

Actually, I went offline for, I think it was three days.

I love it.

And she said, she was so scorched.

Funny.

But I wrote everybody individually, and then I went on Facebook and instagram and went into all the children's authors.

There's.

I didn't know there was such a web of us.

There's so many authors.

And just texted each one of them if I could get a message through.

I put a message through and said, this is what I'm doing.

My new book is coming out.

Then will you support me?

Will you be on my team?

And so some were a little snotty, but a lot were friendly.

And that's how I met this one girl, Rachelle, who invited me into this Kids Discover Kids Books.

And that was a really great turning point there because they actually helped me on the day of my launch and did their own little launch online.

They all supported that, which was very nice.

I love that.

And that's what I've found.

I've talked about it quite often.

Is I. I just love the children's book author community.

They're so giving.

It feels so good.

Yeah.

Back in January, the fires in la, one of the authors in our group, Christy Bradbury, she lives near la.

She used to teach around there.

She came up with this idea, what if we all donate a book because five elementary schools had burned to the ground.

Oh, my goodness.

And so this started getting around.

And before he knew, there's like hundreds of books were donated.

So I donated eight of my own, my husband and I.

And then I asked my family and friends, I said, would you like to purchase one of my books for donation and we'll send them all down.

So we sent another 20 books down.

So 28 books from Penny Girl's Rescue are down there that have been donated, which is really heartwarming.

And, well, I put stickers on the inside of who it was from in my family or friends.

And I asked them first and where in Canada they came from.

And I thought it'd be really fun for the children receiving them to see where they came from.

Teacher pulls out the map and says, okay, these books came from a couple from out west because I have family in Victoria and my nephew isn't actually in California, all over Ontario and places.

I thought it would be really fun for them.

That is a terrific idea.

Wow.

Now, I know you talked about Penny being your motivation to write your children's book.

Let's dig into that a little bit deeper because you said you saw her profile.

Talk to us about that aspect of it.

Her picture.

She looks so.

They just had her on a leash because they just take a picture and had Penny across it and she looked so shy and worried and wondering, what the heck's going on now, but her beauty.

Black dog with a white star on her chest and the wrinkles with the ears, her face.

She was just so sweet.

And I just thought maybe we could help you.

This one dog, I just fell in love with her.

The bio, like the bio was just walks on a leash.

Check.

She was trained, house trained.

And quite a few things were, yes.

But the next day we thought, oh, she walks on a leash.

We walked out down the driveway, the long driveway.

She lay on the sidewalk, four legs out, and she weighed 45 pounds.

I'm like, she's pure muscle.

What are we going to do with this?

She doesn't walk on a leash.

But you know what?

She was so stressed because of all she'd been through.

I can imagine so much just.

And we knew her age going into the shelter, we were told three months.

So I found her birth date on one of the papers we got and she was nine months old when we got her.

So she spent six months in a high kill shelter.

So can you imagine what day in, day out, six months in there, wondering what you're waiting for.

You saw these initial pictures.

You get Penny into your life and you're also writing a children's book about her life.

And as she got to be part of your family, Tell us about her character development based on all of that experience with her coming into your life and then growing into your family.

At the transport, she was the last dog to come out.

We were there for hours.

We're like, oh, can we get this?

Can we get going?

We drove the furthest and we waited the longest because there were 14 dogs.

They brought her out, brought her over to us.

She licked my hand, wagged her tail and jumped into the car.

Just take me home is what I felt she was saying.

We had a bit of a hard time on the way home because we didn't know this dog.

She was standing on all fours in the backseat, screeching.

And I'm thinking, I wonder what's wrong.

You're trying to read this dog.

We've had a previous dog and completely different.

It's like all our personalities.

Every dog has a personality.

So we brought her home.

Basically.

We got home at three in the morning and we have three steps up to the front door.

Pulled her up there and they told us to buy a crate.

She's going to be this big.

Buy a crate this size, don't have anything.

These dogs there was like it came with a manual.

These dogs could eat stuffing, they could bite up your furniture.

They all these things they can do.

So we're told to put her in a crate with no padding on the bottom.

And I'm thinking to myself, that's gotta be awfully uncomfortable.

Put her in.

She started crying.

My husband spent the first night.

He slept beside her.

He slept on the couch and pulled the crate up right beside.

And as the nights went on, we started to realize, this dog isn't vicious.

This dog isn't going to the furniture, no touching anything.

It was the funniest thing, though.

We were in the kitchen and we heard something.

And I walked into the living room.

She was standing on all fours, standing straight up on our leather couch, looking like, what is this?

And how would she dealt with.

How would she know?

She went from a farm to a shelter with cages.

Know what it was?

And I.

She's looking at me like, should I be up here?

I said, down, and just pulled her down.

But, yeah, throughout the days we.

She started.

I just sat on the floor and let her come to me.

Because I realized that she was shy.

She was frightened, wondering, what was this?

Was this her last stop?

Are they going to leave me?

All these questions.

Probably let her come to me.

She didn't even know what to do with toys.

But as the first couple of weeks, and she was afraid of the stairs, that was the other thing.

I couldn't get her to go down the back stairs to go out to the backyard.

So I phoned the fellow who helped us adopt her, and I said, you got a problem?

And he said, what?

I said, she won't go down the stairs.

She's afraid of the stairs.

He says, all I can tell you is a long leash and lots of treats.

And I'm like, what?

I'm like, I'm a smart person.

What does that mean?

She said, long leash.

Because you're going to be starting at the top and going down or starting at the bottom and going up, but you're going to treat her if she puts her nose near the stairs, if she looks at the stairs, if she puts her snout there, if she does anything towards the stairs, treat.

So that's what I had to do.

It took about a week, and we got her up the stairs to the second level and down the stairs to the back door.

Everything had to be done a certain way.

Like, I had no idea when she needed to go outside.

She had one accident inside, and I finally thought, okay, I'm just going to take her out every hour, figure this all out.

But as we got to know her, she's a funny, quirky little Dog.

She loves, loves to hug, but in a funny way, she puts her snout between your legs when you're standing and pushes herself in almost.

And that's her hug.

That's Penny's hug.

And she likes to play games.

When we come home, she wants to be snuggled.

I played with her a few minutes.

All of this started coming out.

It took weeks and weeks.

And that crate.

We figured out.

One night she disappeared.

I was putting her into the crate each night.

At first they said, lock it every night.

You never know what they can do.

And she cried.

I actually sang to her.

I sang Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star.

And she calmed down, and that's how she went to sleep.

And then one night, I thought, okay, I'm going to leave the door open.

All she did was bring her paws and stick them out.

I don't really want to be in here, but I'll be in here, but I want to put something out.

So she put her paws out the front.

And then about a month after we got her, I couldn't find her.

The lights were down.

She's black.

When her head's down, you can't see her.

So I'm looking everywhere and I look and I hear something.

I look under the table.

She puts her head up and her big white patch shows.

I said, what are you doing under there?

She's just looking at me like, I don't understand.

I thought, okay, tonight's the night we're going to try you out of the crate.

Pulled the dog bed up to the bedroom.

She lay on there and has ever since.

She's never eaten anything, torn, anything chewed, anything.

It takes time to, I guess, for your protection, tell you all these things that could happen because they have happened with other dogs.

Understand?

Complete.

Yeah.

I want to talk to you about your theme.

Talk to us about the theme of this book, Pennygirl's rescue.

And then connect us to the two other books in the series.

So this theme is the uncertainty of what's happened to her, the waiting.

So at the beginning, the little white dog leaving the family, and that's her memory.

When we're talking about, is this the day Penny will be adopted?

She's remembering he's gone.

So she's thinking, when's my turn?

And that's the start of it.

But then we get into.

She doesn't really know what she's waiting for, but what she's waiting for is us to someone to adopt her.

So that's the emotional journey where she.

Things are so uncertain from day to day.

Will I have friends Will I fit in?

How will I feel with different food every day?

Will I make a friend?

And that's why I introduced Tammy, the shelter worker.

I introduce her to give Penny hope that maybe something better is going to happen in the near future.

Hopefully that's why I introduced that girl.

Starting to take her out on the walk and a little bit of fun there where she gets hit in the snout by the frog.

That actually happened here soon after we got her.

She's really funny.

She.

We take her down to the lake and she sticks her snout into the reeds.

And I don't know what's going to come out next time, but each time there was.

It was a frog, then it was a mouse, then it was a snake.

And that really happened.

But this is her uncertain time and wondering what's going to happen and hope that we got adopted.

Plenty of the sheep who I get adopted.

And that's the first story.

And then she does find out she's a dog that understands people.

So I have her thinking out loud throughout the story because it gives kids a little more info and it's fun to follow along like that.

And so the next story is meeting us at the transport and this new part of her life, being adopted, going to a new forever home and the hope that life will be better and as a free dog again and loved and cherished by us, actually.

And then the third story, I haven't given it a title yet, but I'm thinking of Penny Girl's new friends showing that, okay, I'm settled, I'm happy, they're not going to leave me.

She still follows me closely.

If I go down to my mom's to visit or anywhere, she's always watching to make sure that we're going to take her home.

We have left her there before, overnight, like on purpose, and she pines for us.

But I think that might be the plight of a rescue dog because they just are never quite sure.

You think that might go away, but possibly not.

So the third one, I want to introduce friends that she's met in the yard.

She starts going to the dog park.

I've had several friends ask me, is there any way you could put my dog into your story?

I love that.

So we might do that at a dog park or something.

Have them meet somebody that I know.

They don't live here, but it would be fun to do that.

That's her journey so far.

And now that you've revealed that you've had these 3,000 words, talk to us about your writing process as you you went from Penny Girls Rescue.

Now you're formulating, taking some of the words that you've written in the past, formulating that into the second book and then the writing process to get the finished third book.

Take us on that journey.

How you see it.

It's the funniest thing.

These words just literally fell out of me.

And I think it's because it happened.

I think it's easier to write, in my opinion, because it's something in front of me or behind me that's happened and I can always recall it.

I've got very vivid, I'm very descriptive and I'm emotional myself.

And I think that's why I could write it, to make people understand, like, what she's been through.

And maybe that's part of being.

Having worked in the healthcare sector, I'm not sure, or just me, or maybe that made me be able to work in the healthcare sector.

But this writing process just fallen out of me.

Like, I'll start writing again and think of it's all the things that she's done or little things that she's done and I've put together with things that work.

And it seems to me now, if I am wrong, please let me know.

Is the third book.

The words that you've written may change probably the most in the third book because of all these influences you're now getting.

Like you said, your friends, and they're talking about, oh, Judy, can you sneak my dog into the story?

And then even the development of friends for Penny that she's made.

You wouldn't even known she had those friends.

No.

And also her fears, like in the second book, we talk about her fears.

She's afraid of bunnies, she's afraid of kitties.

There's a particular cat in our street that drives her insane.

And I think he knows that.

He was up on our roof the other day.

Drives her crazy.

She's afraid of him.

So talking about fears, like, I can use the fact that she's afraid of the stairs.

I could use that in the third book and how we managed it.

And it might help other people.

And about the other fears of the animals and things, I think bringing in and bringing in animals that she would like.

So there's some happy parts of it as well, like a bird on the windowsill, which she did enjoy ages ago, but I wrote that into the story.

But every time something happens, I sometimes wake up and I'll write like a couple of sentences and then it'll just sit there like I haven't worked on it again for months, but I'm busy on getting these illustrations done and stuff and selling the first book.

Yeah, for sure.

In terms of success measurement, because now that you've been at this for a while, you've developed some unique relationships with your Instagram groups, which I love.

What was your original thought of success for you with pennygirls Rescue and what does it look like now and what is it going to look like for your second book?

That's a hard one.

I guess the success that I feel is how people have loved the book.

I'm finding that when people finally get it, they do really enjoy it and that really makes me happy.

That's a success right there.

It's getting it into people's hands.

Right?

Yes.

We have realized, my husband and I, he comes to my shows and things with me.

We've realized that me in person sells my books more than my books sitting there when I can't tell more about it and enlighten you on our love for Penny and things like that.

People love to hear that.

I have the dog.

She's actually our dog.

So we found that in person events are much better.

We're making decent sales online.

But I find going to Chapters, or Indigo they're called now, I've been doing that and that's been very successful.

Now in the Trenton area or how far have you gone?

Branched out.

So I met somebody in this author group and they're from, I think around Hamilton area, which is west of us, quite west.

A couple of hours.

She had done the chapters and she said, I said, what do you do?

How do you start?

She said, just drop a pin where Trenton is and whatever you're willing to drive, do an hour and a half to start with.

So that's what I did.

So we've branched out.

We did Belleville first, it's half an hour from us, Peterborough, which is northwest.

And we've done Oshawa, which was our most successful so far.

Much busier store as you get closer to Toronto.

Shouldn't we just contact the store manager?

I just phone or how did you go about doing this on the phone?

I highly recommend phone conversation to start because everybody I've talked to have been so friendly and you just introduce yourself, I'm a local author.

How would I go about possibly getting a book signing in your store?

And they either answer you and say, here's the person's email, email them your a little bit about your book, a little bit about yourself and.

Or they'll pass you on to the person that you're going to talk to, but it's usually an email, which is.

Great and just for listeners.

And is that Chapters Indigo is similar to Barnes and Noble in the United States?

Very similar, yes.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah, Great.

So I've done.

And then we were asked when we went to Oshawa, we did so well.

They asked us if we'd be interested in other stores contacting us and we said sure.

I've been in contact with St. Catharines because of Penny being from that area and we love the Niagara area.

Yes.

We're trying to organize something in the New year with the St. Catherine's chapters and possibly there's one near Hamilton that's not far from there.

And we'd like to do the Eaton Centre in Toronto.

There's Young and Bay, which is one of the.

Just not far from the Eaton Center.

Do you know where the Eaton Center?

You bet.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

There's three places in Toronto that this girl from Oshawa guys should call them and do them.

We do a four hour book signing and you have to be standing, engaging hi to everyone that comes in because people will walk past you because if you don't tell them anything or show them anything.

I should have brought it to show you.

It's a Penny Girl puppet made.

It's a hand puppet.

Terrific.

And yeah, I use that for my last four book signings and it is so engaging.

For even the grouchiest person that walks through that star, they have to smile.

They can't help but they try and look away and they end up smiling.

It's the funniest thing.

It pulls kids over with their parents and gets the conversation started.

So it's a great way to engage because people are busy, they're on.

They have a one track mind, they have a list.

They've got to get this done today because we usually go on a Saturday.

And so I say hi to everyone that walks past.

I say, oh, would you want to hear about my book?

I've learned we've been doing this.

I started in April, the Indigo chapters.

And perfect it as you go along.

At first you're shy, you're not sure what you're doing, you're not sure if people really want to hear what you're saying.

And then you realize people are interested.

They want to hear what you have to say.

Very soon after somebody comes up to your table if they really don't want to hear anymore and you just say, okay, let's move on.

That one of these stores that we sell our Book in actually recommended that we develop a plushie.

I know that our listing audience see it, but our main character because the name of our book is the Adventures of Caboose the Rocky Mountain Bear.

And then we developed a plushie to go with the book.

So yeah, the store owner said, Rick, you should have a plushie because it certainly can help sell more books.

So we've given it a try.

Yes.

The other thing which is I hired a teacher to give me a.

Like a lesson plan.

Yes.

Because I wanted just I've gone to a couple of places and read my book that I wanted to engage with the kids and know what do I ask them, what do I tell them?

What do I say before I just read my book.

And so she developed a lesson plan and I said to her I would like three crafts that are easy to do that are dog related.

I just told her what I wanted and I wanted something I could print off and share like a maze or something.

So she developed quite a nice maze in three different age groups.

So we just print off 20 of each of those and they go like hotcakes.

We put our website on them, the name of the book series and the kids love them.

I got three age groups.

I have them at the front of my table.

Parents come up.

The first kids aren't really into the book at first.

I'm like, do you guys like doing mazes?

Because I always love doing them.

They were my favorite things.

So they go like hotcakes and you take them to every show.

We were doing just stickers.

Judy had said age group.

So explain to us a little bit more in depth.

Oh.

So one maze is quite simple and it's for Pre K to 1.

And then we have that on the top corner.

The second one is grades two to three.

The third one is four to five.

So parents will know which one to choose or the kids who are reading can and they love doing that as well.

Is picking the one age appropriate to them.

So we found that's a great add on.

That's really that and now the having the plushie or the hand pump it, that's been really good.

But plushies, yes, definitely.

A lot of people are doing that selling them with their book or I.

Noticed you've got which is great.

455 star reviews on Amazon.

And I had a guest on Laurie or Linsky.

She's a children's book authority and she also works for a book publishing company.

And she was telling me she found the sweet spot for her was around 50 five star reviews.

Where she noticed she was getting more traction.

So tell us a little bit about how you got to 45, five star reviews and have you noticed different as you've developed more or five star reviews, has it given you more sales traction?

Yes, I think it has.

I actually only had 25 for quite some time.

But what I do is whenever somebody I know buys the book, even at, when I'm at the bookstore and someone buys it, I say if you enjoy the book, would you leave a review or even if you don't enjoy it, would you leave a review?

Now a lot of people don't because we'd have hundreds, right?

Absolutely.

Yeah.

But I have had a couple of really fabulous reviews from my friends in this.

Now we're not allowed to just review for each other.

We have to read the book and.

Or buy the book and do it legit, right?

Yeah.

But I met a teacher online, she's in Brantford, Ontario.

And I said to her she was looking for read alouds.

Would she be interested in reading my book?

Penny Girl's Rescue.

For her read aloud, this was the and a school last year, June, and I ended up sending her a free copy for her classroom.

She did a read aloud, she gave me the most fabulous review.

And she pulled out so many topics and things out of my book like social emotional, learning tool.

And all these things are the buzzwords and the things that teachers and educators and even homeschool parents, parents as well looking for in books.

They're looking for.

Right.

But talking about a book to get kids talking about their emotions because this is a very emotional journey for Penny.

It's easy for kids to maybe open up once they're reading about this dog.

It's kind of over there.

Maybe they can start talking about their own emotions if something's bothering them.

I've had quite a few really in depth reviews and they've helped.

Plus getting.

I got, I have a couple of awards for the book and I purposely got them so I could get the review from them.

One was literary type and I got a very in depth review from them as well as the Golden Wizard Book Prize.

Both of those were exceptional.

They were five star but very in depth because I find some of the five stars, they don't say very much.

It doesn't give somebody looking up the book because I do look up reviews when I buy things a lot of people don't.

But if there's not much information like I like the book and they give you five stars, that doesn't give the person very much.

Yeah, the Book awards have helped as well.

Thank you for sharing that.

So the role of writing.

How do you see the role of writing in your life?

Like you said, you went from over a 30 year career in the medical field to now a published children's book author.

Tell us about this role of writing in your life now.

It's a passion.

I'm enjoying it so much.

I worked with patients for years and talked to them in the room one on one and talked to doctors one on one giving reports.

But I was never telling them about something I was passionate about.

I was telling them medical information and now I'm passionate because people have shown an interest and there's so many rescue dogs and things.

It would be nice if people read the book and because of that they had a conversation with their families and they were talking about getting a dog.

Hey, I read this book.

Maybe we could try rescuing a dog.

But I don't see it as a role.

It's a passion I'm sharing and advice for aspiring authors.

We get a lot of people listening in wanting to become a children's book author, but they just don't know where to start.

So what advice would you give to aspiring children's book authors?

I would say it's never too late to write a book.

I'm 66.

I was 65 when my book launched, which is retirement.

But it can give you a lot of fun and inspiration in your life, talking to people and sharing it with the world.

I think if you have a story, you should tell it because somebody will enjoy it.

Absolutely.

I couldn't agree with you more.

An encouragement for readers.

So why should readers purchase your book.

If they want to read a an emotional journey about a rescue dog from her point of view?

I think it would be a great learning tool for parents to have their kids read this story to learn that even though times could be dark, they could be something wonderful, could be just around the corner like with Penny.

And I love how you have used that technique to tell the story from Penny's eyes as a rescue dog.

It's nice touch and I hope other people get inspired from that.

Thank you.

Final thoughts.

Judy, is there something you thought?

Oh, I wish Rick would have asked me that.

Is there any final thoughts you'd like to share?

I think you've asked me everything.

Very thorough.

Thank you.

You know what?

You shared so much.

There's a lot of value here.

So I hope people can look for the nuggets and take their time.

The nice thing about a podcast, you can take your time and listen to it and listen to certain parts over and go over again.

I really appreciate that.

Judy, thank you so much for being a guest on the Adventures in the Heart children's Book Authors podcast, your generosity of time and your insights for our listeners.

They're hearing some new stuff here and I really appreciate you sharing that and it certainly will help aspiring authors and I know with readers telling the story through the eyes of a rescue dog.

That is such a unique technique to use.

And we promise to provide our audience with links to Judy's social media, especially her Instagram, her website, which is beautiful.

If you've enjoyed the episode, please hit the subscribe button to listen to future episodes and feel free to share this episode with anyone inspired by or who enjoys hearing about Judy and her children's book, Penny Girl's Rescue.

Thank you so much for having me, Rick.

I've really enjoyed it.