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00:00:06 Sana: Many of us listeners believe that whenever we think about creativity, it only belongs to artists, right? Um, and okay, who do you imagine or who do you think when you hear the word discipline? Um, military soldiers, right? But then think about it. What happens when one person embodies both?

00:00:38 Sana: Yeah. We're thinking, let me introduce my guest to all of you. But before that, also welcome back to the Mindful Living podcast, where we explore stories that inspire us to live with greater awareness, resilience, and purpose. Of course, in the present. And yes, listeners, I am. And today I'm sitting with someone who has spent two decades serving in the United States Air Force, followed by fifteen years at NORAD. After a career built on precision, responsibility and service, he stepped into a completely different world by writing an epic series that blends science fiction, fantasy, and spiritual themes across eleven eleven published books and listeners. Honestly, um, I think, I think what I feel about my guest journey, that it reminds us that purpose doesn't end with one career. And this is exactly what I personally, as a host, as a human, I'm looking forward to explore more. And I'm very sure all of your listeners are also looking forward to. Because the purpose of exactly why I'm sitting here and doing this was something out of the transition that I had a couple of years back. but thank you so much. Once again, listeners, for being here. And let's welcome our guest, Terrence L Lottering. So, Terrence, welcome to the Mindful Living, and I'm so honored having you here.

00:02:09 Terrence Rotering: Thank you so much for having me, Sana. I'm, I'm honored to be here. And I really look forward to talking with you.

00:02:16 Sana: Totally, totally. Terrence, I, I'm very sure when people would hear your story, um, they'll be very, very surprised by the contrast. In fact, you know, including myself. Um, but then if we look at one chapter of your life, it was spent flying fighter aircraft and serving at NORAD. And then another has been devoted to creating an expansive fictional universe, sci fi. How how does that make sense? Terrence. What exactly, you know, what's what's the what's the journey in details here?

00:02:52 Terrence Rotering: I think you kind of hit on it in your introduction a little bit, but I'll go backwards just for a moment. So I grew up in a state here in Wisconsin, um, many years ago, and I was an only child on a little postage stamp of land. And I always dreamed of. I had two posters on my wall and F-111 and F-15e, two fighters in the US Air Force inventory, one older and one newer. And uh, I grew up, I went to high school, went to the Air Force Academy for four years, which is a college, which is very intense. And it teaches you on top of getting an academic, um, not a scholarship, an academic, uh, bachelor's degree. You also come out with, you know, many, many hours of discipline athletics, military training, all of that stuff to prepare you for the Air Force. And then I went off to the Air Force, like you said, for twenty years, had some staff jobs, but mostly was flying the F-111 and then the Strike Eagle as the Backseater. I don't know if anyone out there has seen Top Gun, but I was goose in the back seat, only in the Air Force. We had all the controls and so we got to fly, unlike goose. But. So that was a lot of fun, but also a lot of work. It's a lot more work than you see in the movies when people are just flying around. And then after retiring from the Air Force, like you said, I went to NORAD and Northcom, which is after Air Combat Command, which is another command where you're responsible for with a whole bunch of other people, um, just keeping track of the bad guys in the world and trying to protect your country as well as other freedom loving countries around the world. And that, like you said, was another fifteen years. So altogether with the Academy about forty years. And then I retired up to the mountains here in Colorado with two big Colorado mountain dogs and my wife and, and some land, um, because I saved up for a long time. And so we ran around for a while looking at, you know, videos and I had on three cameras, um, of cougars and elk and deer and all this stuff. And it was fun. But then I then something started to bother me and I said, you know, is this it? AM I all done? Because those forty years I had a lot of duty and, and discipline and purpose to what I was doing. And I started missing that. And so I said, you know what? I think there's more to it. And that's when I started writing this series to try to give everybody all of the wisdom I had learned over the years and the things that I had learned from that time in the Air Force as well as, um, like you said, imagination from all of the things we love watching, right? And reading the different fiction and fantasy and all the different movies. So that's what kind of led me here.

00:05:22 Speaker 3: Oh, wow. Well, I mean.

00:05:26 Sana: I mean, of course, because, sixty plus, guest appearances. I mean, that was right up your alley. I, I knew that, but the way you, um, put the words in there, um, one question that comes to my mind is, um, why, why writing? Why imagination? Was this something that probably you, you dreamt about in your childhood or you wanted, but somehow it didn't happen. Why? Why this? Why this transition?

00:05:57 Terrence Rotering: Yeah, that was a that's a good question. So, um, getting into that very, very quickly faster than the last answer. Um, when I was about twenty years ago, my boys were very small, eight and ten years old and they were reading books and I wanted to show them that they would have a voice too, and they could write books and they just didn't have to just read them. They could write them. Um, and so, and they could share with the world. So I wrote a very short story that was the, the stand, which was the central book in the first trilogy. And then five years later, when they became teenagers, I grew that into another book called The Faithful of about five hundred pages, just for fun for them. And then I sat on it for fifteen more years. And after I retired, when I started thinking I wanted to do something more, that's when I pulled those out, dusted them off, and, you know, changed them some. And then I added a third book forever to it. So it became The Faithful Stand Forever. And that was the trilogy. And I thought I was done at that point for about a week. And then I realized, wait, that whole story has a prequel to it, and I wrote another trilogy before that. So it became the six books in this world called Trinian. And that was the end of it for about a week when I realized, hey, wait a minute, this. That's just one of seven different places in this multiverse. All these different wheels, these planets, this multiverse, like I said. And so that exploded up in even more science fiction into this massive multiverse. And then I just sent in the fourth trilogy, um, that just got published last month, and it brings it down from that multiverse to earth, and it makes it real for all of us and connects us to this multiverse so that we realize that all of these characters and all these things have been going on. This big war between good and battle also is about us, and it brings it right down to us. And then there's three more trilogies to go after that, that take us from here to the end of time.

00:07:51 Speaker 3: Mhm. Well that is exciting. That is exciting.

00:07:57 Sana: And, and interesting because, I mean, I come from a generation which, um, has been, you know, at least in India, um, we have been always in awe of, I, I still remember the first time I watched, um, Star Wars or, um, Marvel or DC, I mean.

00:08:21 Terrence Rotering: Yeah.

00:08:22 Sana: In awe, in awe. And, I, I still remember, you know, those days where stories were, weren't just stories or animation or, uh, you know, just for the sake of putting something for the, the aesthetics of it, but there was something to get, seek inspiration from, you know, the characters, you know, they have had their unique character arcs and stories and journeys and how all together they came in confluence in conjunction. And it's really, really interesting and inspiring and, and also, dense. Uh, were there qualities, uh, because I, I'm just trying to understand, you know, like connect, establish parallels between the two worlds here, the world of discipline and, uh, you know, strength and faith and this love for your country. And then, uh, there is the world of creativity here, imagination expansive, you know, um, what are the parallels here? Like, were there any qualities that you developed during your years of military service that quietly prepared you to become a writer? Because often, you know, it's just a normal imagination that whenever we, we imagine, okay, maybe, uh, the person is a writer or maybe, uh, they are an artist, painter or, or, you know, anything in the world of creativity, They're always like a bit different from the conventional lot, you know? They are a bit different and it's probably a mess because a lot of things, you know, a lot of thoughts and images and stories, they're just, you know, kind of in, in whirlwinds in their minds. So we do not associate very often these two words or words together.

00:10:14 Speaker 4: Yes.

00:10:14 Terrence Rotering: So excellent question. So kind of a long answer, but you're going to get a lot from this. So when I was writing this and I never planned on being an author, this just kind of came to me. And then it's just been growing ever since. And it just keeps expanding with each trilogy so that even the previous trilogies have changed in your understanding of them. And you might have to go back and read them as you go forward and see how this thing is growing and changing. But the biggest thing for me that I wanted to do that was different than a lot of the fiction that was out there right now, whether it be in books or in movies, is I wanted to say something different. So a lot of the things that are out there now, um, they're kind of dark. They're kind of, you know, evil, if you will. There's, there's universes that are full of chaos. They don't have any answers, you know, God, God is either dead or he never existed. And it's all about humanism and what we can do and how we can grow and maybe combine with, you know, AI or, or machines or whatever to grow. So all of these things have different, um, all of these stories have different world views in them, whether they be nihilism or humanism or, you know, the occult or magic or eastern mysticism or whatever. And I just, I just wanted to because I'm a Christian. And so I wanted to put the good versus evil Christian aspect into a story or into a series. But the big aspect that makes it different is that it's positive. It doesn't say there's a world full of chaos and that we're lost and alone and despair and no hope and a bunch of questions. It says no. The world is very designed, it's very ordered. And there are a lot. There's tons of hope and there's lots of answers. And God is alive. And he does love us. And that really what's critical for your generation, my generation, all of us, is that everybody is unique. Everybody has a purpose, everybody has value. And there's only one person like you think of it as a big puzzle, where we're all different pieces of the puzzle and our lives and the things we go through shape us and the different colors and everything. We have to be able to fit into that puzzle. And every one of us has a place in that big, beautiful puzzle of that tapestry that's being painted, if you will, that puzzle that's being put together and not to try to be like somebody else because there's only one piece that's like you that'll fit in that puzzle. We don't need two pieces that are the same. We want everybody's uniqueness and their special aspects to them. So don't try to be somebody else. Work on who you are and, and realize that you have purpose and that you're very special and you're the only person that fits in that puzzle like you do. So that's the big thing that's different about this. Um, what maybe makes me, you know, you said you said it in kind words like special or, or whatever. Um, but a little bit odd, a little bit off, a little bit different. It's probably all of those years. I never, ever dreamed of doing this. And I think all of those forty years of flying, the duty, the discipline, the purpose just got so built into me that when I was done with all of that, I had to do this. It was the only way that I could let it out and show people, you know, these unique aspects to who they are and to build this massive multiverse. And then that discipline that I learned over all of those years is what helps me hold it all together in these three different genres of fantasy, sci fi, and spiritual warfare, and not mix it all up where it's not understandable, but very clear and very purposeful as it progresses through the different trilogies.

00:13:47 Sana: Absolutely. I get that because, for the fact, um, I mean, of course you're not from the lived experiences, but from just, uh, having, uh, having an interest in understanding, how, uh, maybe the kind of content that we are watching, you have movies, you have, um, now, I mean, in fact, even independent creators, YouTubers now they have gotten into the mainstream, uh, bringing our brilliant, brilliant, scripts and writings and, and content and stories. Um, sometimes, you know, it can, it's, it's like a trope that you just kind of become obsessed with your own creation. You kind of, you know, fall in love or you lose that sense of direction. And maybe, maybe you are not able to now understand from the perspective of the audience or someone, someone who is consuming, going to consume content, and you just kind of lose the sense of meaning in there altogether. So I do understand, that's how the panel exactly works in there. Um, you mentioned about AI, Terrence and I want to bring in that into attention because, um, I do not want to sound, maybe like coming from old generation that, AI is destroying creativity. But then to a huge extent, I think it would tend to tend to make it more easier or maybe more obvious and quote unquote, the stuff that we call as AI slop. Uh, right now. Um, so what I think is, and I think I'll also come to another question, which kind of, I'm just harboring in my mind, but I'm just parking it alongside right now. maybe, maybe right now we are slowly Losing touch with our imagination because life has kind of become this filled with responsibilities. right now, I, if I talk about the younger generations completely clueless about how the world is what the world is becoming right now. Um, and my generation, we have grown up reading comics, we have grown up reading novels, books, Harry Potter. It's still relevant, still relevant, from the Indian mythology, uh, from the Indian culture. Ramayan. It's, at least, for the Indian who are there in overseas, um, it is synonymous, even if, uh, different creators and artists, they'll bring different, rendering the versions of it, the, the soul, the fundamental, um, base foundation of this epic. It stands the, the good versus bad, the, the good versus evil. Um, but then do you think, Terrence, that, imagination still matter? And it's not just for writers, but for anyone, anyone who is trying to live a meaningful life in today's day and age.

00:16:52 Terrence Rotering: Absolutely. I mean, imagination is, is really kind of everything from storytelling to what we're doing here, talking to each other, people talking to their friends, their family, other strangers, whatever. When, when we talk to each other, we give each other stories. We tell each other stories, whether it's the story of what's happening us to us today or our history, or we tell people about other stories or things we've read or movies we've watched. And to some extent, it's all fiction because we can't portray it perfectly. Our senses pick up what we think, um, and or is going on, and then that shapes what we think in our minds. And then that comes out of our mouth as our understanding of something. And that happens with everybody and the governments and the news agencies and everybody. So to some extent, it's all fiction and it's all storytelling. So really it's all imagination because when we take all of that information in and we assimilate it and, and dissect it and then everything in our heads and come up with a rational thought or thinking about something, we're not really dealing with reality. We're dealing with some form of fiction and some form of reality, but it's other people's reality. Some of it's ours, some of it, you know, whatever. So it's all kind of fiction and it's so our imagination is a lot more critical than what people probably think of. They normally think of, oh, that's just me drawing or, you know, coming up with a story or something. But it's intimately involved with everything we think and everything we experience from our senses and other people's experiences, from their senses and the touch on AI really quickly, none of the stuff that I've written used AI at all. I stay away from it. And you could probably tell there's little mistakes and stuff and grammar and spelling and stuff in the books that people don't really care that much about as long as the story is really intriguing. Um, so, but yeah, you could probably tell that if AI wrote something because it'll be perfect, right? Um, and it'll, it'll lack maybe some of that imagination also. So yeah, stay away from the AI. And then the last topic really quickly, um, that good versus evil, you don't have to be a Christian to enjoy this series. Um, it's, it's, uh, think of it as a series of chess boards where you've got, you know, the good guy and the bad guy fighting with all the different rooks and pawns and, you know, knights and bishops and stuff like that of that story on both sides. And then it switches as it goes through time to another chess board and another one and another one with just one big king on one side and one big king on the other, fighting the big battle overall. So, you know, you could be other have other worldviews, um, and still enjoy this. Um, for all what I talk about is the sugar of the fantasy and the, and the sci fi that's in it, but it also has, like I talked about earlier with the encouraging aspects. It has meat and potatoes and vegetables in there. So when you walk away from it, you know you're not just going to set it on the shelf. You're going to when you look back at it, you'll know that you were involved with this, um, story because it, I, I, unfenced it, I make it, um, connected to the people of this world, of all of us so that it actually affects you and changes you in your life. It's not just a book you read and you set aside. So that's, you know, three different topics there to your one question. But yes, imagination is absolutely critical to people just surviving and living and enjoying their lives.

00:20:05 Sana: Absolutely. I think I think it couldn't be more obvious than this. I mean, it's not just about sci fi or creativity, but even, you know, scientists, I mean, we, we listeners can look for what Albert Einstein said on imagination, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, uh, so much of the outer universe and of course, the universe within us. Um, but still we are. It's still subjected to imagination. We haven't even covered an iota of it. But, um, having said that before, we, we wrap it up. Uh, Terrence, your books, they explore everything from sentient AI to multiple timelines, spiritual conflict. Now they may all they are epic in scale. Um, but they, I, I think they all seem to circle back to very human questions. And this is exactly what I mentioned and what we talked about a few minutes back. Um, so what do you think stories which are set in extraordinary worlds, they can teach us about the ordinary lives that we are living today, you know, because if we look at some of the, uh, you know, movies as well, especially sci fi, they all somehow come back to some kind of human element in there, maybe, you know, longing for your home, longing for your loved ones. Um, the emotional element in there that, uh, is the like the foundational stone in there based on which now the other layers, the deeper layers are built, are created. So what do you think, Terrence on that?

00:21:45 Speaker 4: Yeah. So all of.

00:21:46 Terrence Rotering: My stories, even though they do have all that fantasy in there. So the earlier times, dragons and sword fights and all kinds of, you know, close to magic kind of things. And then, and then as it goes through time, towards the end, you get way more into the sci fi where the time tunnels and travel and, you know, God particles and dark matter and aliens and AI and all of those things. And all of the questions really that we're looking at now, what is going to happen with AI and sentience, and what is the deal with these UFOs flying around? Where are they from? Are they really aliens or coming from the ocean or what's going on? So it does touch on all of that stuff for the imagination aspect. But really the stories are about people, you and I. I mean, there's there's heroes of men, women, children, orphans, everyone you can think of. So everyone can relate to what's going on. And then the stories inside are all about family and faith and love and friendships and sacrifice and, and that discipline and duty that I, that I weld in or weave in from, you know, my earlier years. So all of that is really critical. I mean, a story is just going to be you go and you go and enjoy a movie that's sci fi and it's really fun and everything. But if it's lacking that friendship or that love or that, you know, that that challenge or those different sacrifices or, you know, all of that stuff that's in there, it's going to be really light and you're just going to leave it and go. And that wasn't really that good. Um, so we can put a lot of the CGI from computers and stuff that we've come up with now in our world into our movies, but if it lacks those things that you're talking about, they're the things that really connect the show, the movie, the book to people, to us, and the things that we really strive for or live for, then it's just going to be empty. So yes, it's very, very important to have those aspects in any story.

00:23:40 Sana: Couldn't agree more with you. Couldn't agree more. I mean, in fact, um, I think, you know, uh, people, I think, I think as a civilization, um, when it comes to, to stories or to create consuming even content, I think we have become at least, you know, I'm not, uh, specifying anything, but at least, you know, the kind of outputs or results that we see the responses, I think we have become at least a bit more conscious and smarter that not all the epic ideas, um, they may look great on paper. You can pump in loads of money, you can do all the, uh, the PR and the marketing. You can bring in all the CGI, but if it's not rooted, not grounded, it's not going to connect with with your consumers, with the people who are going to watch, you know, at least, you know, for the for the theater ones. Yeah.

00:24:40 Terrence Rotering: Yeah. It has to touch the mind, but it really has to touch the heart.

00:24:44 Speaker 3: Yeah. That's true, that's true.

00:24:47 Sana: Okay. And, uh, Terrence, if someone listening, um, feels that it's too late to begin something meaningful, you know, especially looking at your transition, uh, something that we call is, you know, um, especially I'm very sure there are listeners who are probably in their, uh, early or late thirties or maybe early forties, forties who are listening to this. Um, and they've always read it about this midlife crisis. Um, if they feel like it's too late to begin something meaningful, what, what would you want them to hear?

00:25:23 Terrence Rotering: I would want them to hear that I had never dreamed about doing this. And now it's one of the what I would consider the most important things that I've done in my entire life. So I got all the way to almost sixty years of age, to a stage of life where, yeah, just sit back, retire, get fat, you know, and wait to die kind of thing. And then when the purpose thing hit in and I said, you know what? I should really look back at some things that maybe I said no to in the past. And that's one of the big lessons. Don't be afraid to try new foods. I just decided, I just figured out that I like pretzels and I never liked pretzels before. So as you go through life and you go to different stages, you might start liking things that you never liked before or, or enjoy something that you've never tried before. So like I did with writing, don't be afraid to try something new. You might find out, hey, it's going to be one of the most important things I've done in my whole life, even though I hated it before. Life changes, technology changes, and there's new opportunities. So broadening that out, don't be afraid. Life is a journey. There's all kinds of different stages. Don't be afraid to be different. Remember your special. Try things that you've. You've said no to before or that you've never tried before because you might love them and just really just look forward to enjoying life and realizing that you. Because you have a purpose and you are special too. There might be something left for you to do. And as long as you're here, there's. You're here for a purpose. So just sit back, try to think of what you'd enjoy and and give it a shot. Even if you've, you know, didn't like it in the past. So that's what I'd like people to, to get from this.

00:27:01 Sana: Beautiful. Beautiful. And yeah, before we close this off, uh, dance, um, you have given a special mention about, you know, the hub, like the back from where all the creations have been born. Um, Colorado. Um, that reminds me of an author. Um, and he was of British origin and he lived in, um, a very small town, uh, in India, in the northern part of India. Ruskin bond. Um, he has written a lot of beautiful novels and books and short stories, especially for children. And I at least, you know, we we all have grown here in India reading his stories and novels. And I think, um, in the, in the, in the, uh, you know, mountains, I think the place has some kind of effect, you know, especially when you are sitting down, you're trying to imagine, do you think that being there, especially in Colorado, has, has given you that different kind of imagination?

00:28:06 Terrence Rotering: I think so for me and I, but I'm not sure that it's necessarily the mountains. I think different people will love different things. And so it's just that place finding that place where you can dream, that place where you can think outside of, of your normal thoughts. Um, and let that, like we talked about that imagination break through when I wake up in the morning and I just want to hit you and your listeners with this very quickly, because I think it's very positive. I wake up in the morning and I smile, and it starts my day off in a really positive way. If you can just get in the habit of smiling. And then I thought about what smile means. And so for a number of years I've been doing this s m I l e for smile, service, mission, intentionality, legacy, eternity. So I think, well, who am I serving today? What is my mission? And that service is kind of vertical and to family, God and all those mission is to people around me. What? And then that I intentionality. What do I want to do today? Give me three things that will go forward to push that mission and that service. And if I can think of just a couple things that I'm going to try to do, it sets my course for the day. And when I have a number of those days, it's like laying bricks in a path through life. And so you don't just wander around or float around in the waves and let them lead you wherever the day is going to go. You kind of have a direction, and after a period of time, that direction takes you down a path so that at the end of your life, when you look back, you can go, you know what? I didn't just get tossed around. I had a goal, a mission to purpose. I set a course. I laid bricks every day, and before you know it, you have a big, massive multiverse like this in eleven books, which has all happened in the last two years. Just because you kind of just set a course every day. And that can be not just for writing books, but for anything that you think is important a little bit every day. And before you know it, you're down that path. So the mountains, yes, for me, but it might be the city, it might be who knows what it could be for everybody, what they enjoy. But just find that place where you can just let your mind kind of wander and your imagination let go, and it'll steer you in a direction that's going to be positive for you and then follow that path.

00:30:19 Speaker 3: MM.

00:30:20 Sana: I do agree with you. I do agree with you. And this is something I personally, I think that, you know, it absolutely matters, at least for me, because, I mean, it's kind of selfish, but I honestly love mountains. So that's the reason.

00:30:35 Terrence Rotering: Well, we're together there. I just didn't want to make it all about the mountains. But I agree with you completely. I love them.

00:30:41 Speaker 3: Super.

00:30:42 Sana: Okay, so, uh, of course, I'm very sure our listeners are so, so eager right now to check out your creations. So where would you direct them from here?

00:30:52 Terrence Rotering: Yeah. So if you have any kind of Google or search engine, I would just say, since this is just audio, I'll spell my name very quickly, T e r r e n c e for Terence and then Rotering R o t e r I n g. If you put that in your search engine, it'll come up with where the books are, what the books are, where you can get them great podcasts like this one where you can listen to, you know, find out what the books are more about, um, and decide if you want to get them. And then, um, also I have a Chronicles of Trinian, which is the first trilogy Chronicles of Trinian all one word I and I a n dot com, and it has all those same things, as well as an email where you can contact me and ask me questions. Um, and then also on my Terence Rotering author YouTube site, like we, you kind of talked about before I started putting a lot of these different parts of the story to video and audio with music. Um, so there's some great songs that have the video of kind of snippets of the different parts of the series. So you can get kind of an idea of what different, you know, aspects of the series might be about. So those are all the places. And if you don't have the money or the ability to get the books, you can get the audio, which is a lot cheaper, and you can get all of this entire series probably for thirty five dollars. American. Um, and most of the books are less than three dollars. So you could listen to them for a lot cheaper than getting the actual pages. So I just wanted to throw that in there too, for people that maybe don't have that ability to buy the books.

00:32:17 Speaker 3: No, I.

00:32:18 Sana: Think that is, that is great. Um, and, um, I'm so glad you know that because I think, uh, this this focuses on the importance of accessibility as well and the ease of consuming as well. Um, so listeners do not need to worry because all the links and details will be there in the show notes. So do find it attached along with this episode. And, um, one quick message, which at least I, I as, uh, you know, as a, as a human, I'm taking, uh, because I also dread about the same thing that our next chapter doesn't have to resemble our last one, I believe. And of course, you know, the proof is here, listeners, sometimes the most meaningful work of our life. It begins only after we have lived through experiences that we never expected. So thank you so much, Terrence. Once again. Um, it was really, really such an inspiring conversation for me. And I'm very sure for our listeners as well. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing.

00:33:28 Terrence Rotering: Thank you for having me and for giving me a voice. Um, and I just loved this discussion and this visit, and I hope people will get a positive thing from this series. Uh, please check it out. And, um, once again, just thank you so much for having me.

00:33:45 Speaker 3: Of course, of course. Let's just.

00:33:46 Sana: Go. Please check out Chronicles of Shineon and all the content and all the work that has put and just refer to the links. Just refer to the links and yep, do share this episode with your fellow friends, your loved ones, your colleagues. And, uh, thank you so much for tuning in to the mindful Living. Also, do follow the Mindful Living on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're listening. But until next time, stay present, stay curious, and keep creating a life that reflects who you truly are. I am Sana. I'll catch you in the next episode. Thank you so much.