Speaker: 00:00:00

Welcome everybody to Gospel Talks podcast where we help Christians all over the world

become more effective in relational evangelism and discipleship.

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My name is George Binoka and I'm joined here today by Jeff Musgrave, the author and

founder of The Exchange.

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And we're going to be talking about kindness.

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You know, we were thinking about gifts.

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Of course, it's right after Christmas time.

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And what's the first gift that you could give an unbeliever?

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I think kindness is what came to my mind.

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kindness really helps to open the door

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to a gospel conversation.

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And before people really listen to what we believe, they experience how we love.

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So I'd just like us to look at the Bible.

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And Jeff's got some thoughts.

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I've got some thoughts about what kindness is and isn't in the Bible.

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So Jeff, why don't you take it away?

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Where would you start in scripture when it comes to kindness?

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Well, I think the very first thing we have to recognize about kindness is that kindness is

not just a forerunner to get to the gospel.

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But the kindness is a Christian virtue.

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mean, throughout the Bible, we are I mean, if we are genuine believers, this is the life

God calls us to to live.

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You had mentioned that kindness

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kind of opens the door to the gospel, they have to experience how we love before they can

listen to what we believe.

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And I think it's interesting that when you listen to the description of love from the

Bible, first Corinthians 13, the great love chapter says love is patient and kind.

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And if love is anything, it is kind.

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And kindness is is literally a part of the loving nature of every genuine believer if we

have the

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the Spirit of Christ looking living through us and, and touching lives through us, then

then that kindness has to be a part of what we are.

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Colossians chapter three, one of my favorite passages, where God tells us to put off the

old man and put on the new man.

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And part of what he says there is put on them as God's chosen ones.

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And I'm

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I'm choosing words, taking some words out of here so we can hear the message put on then

as God's chosen ones, kindness, and part of what we wear as a believer, you know, when

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we're putting on the armor every morning, part of what we put on is the genuine kindness

of the of the Lord.

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And Galatians, where he talks about the fruit of the Spirit.

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And I think this is we have to remember the fruit of the Spirit is not some actions that

we have to try to do.

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it is what the spirit produces in a spirit filled believer, and part of the fruit of the

spirit is kindness.

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So these are not just pragmatic thought processes.

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This is literally who we are before the Lord.

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Jesus himself said, love your enemies, and be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the

ungrateful into the evil.

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And I don't know about you, George, but I find myself being able to be kind to people who

are first kind to me if someone smiles at me if someone kind of lets me go in front of

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them.

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I think my gray hair kind of gets people open doors for me sometimes these days.

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And, and it's a it's a lot easier for me to turn around and be kind to those people.

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But

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but to people that I open the door for and they don't want me to and they're being

ungrateful and evil.

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God says our father shows kindness to even those.

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And if I am going to be a son of the most high, I need to be reflecting his character in

the world.

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Just to sum up those scriptural admonitions, first Thessalonians five, where he's talking

about

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not being children of darkness, but being children of light.

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And in that passage, he says, always seek to do good to one another.

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That's that's within the body.

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And then he uses this phrase and to everyone and the implication is, we're to be able to

affect the sons of darkness through the kindness and the goodness that we show to other

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people.

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You know, one of the things that is a trademark of Christianity and Jesus establishes in

the Sermon on the Mount is that Christians aren't just called to be kind to people that

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like them.

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They're called to be kind to their enemies.

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One time a young person asked me, does God love Satan?

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He's one of his creatures.

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Does he love Lucifer or does he hate him?

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And I think the passage there is you brought up in Luke six.

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I wish I would have thought of that passage when I was answering that question because

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That's incredible to think about that he's kind to the ungrateful and the evil and who all

that includes is a pretty astonishing list that pretty much dissolves any excuse we have

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to not be kind to somebody because of what they've done in their life.

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That kindness is something that God calls us to apply to all people.

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And I think too, one of the things about kindness and this is maybe the next point is

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It's not just a thought in your head.

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It's not just words.

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It's not just, you know, did we say it's the thought that counts?

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Well, yes and no.

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know, faith also works itself out into action.

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so, you know, kindness is something we do.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I think it is not just something we do.

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And we've will certainly make that clear and everything we say.

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But when you gave me this episode concept, it just really hit me that that kindness is an

action.

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I mean, I don't know if you're familiar with the term.

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But people use this random acts of kindness.

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It is actually a reaction to

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earlier in our culture, when we had an outbreak of violence and just violent acts.

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People use the phrase random acts of violence and random acts of terrorism.

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And the concept of random act of kindness was over was a was a reaction to that.

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Okay, if that's the way those people want to act.

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Why don't the rest of us take over the world through random acts of kindness?

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And I it hit me as you I was thinking about this with that phrase.

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It really is an action.

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I mean, we have to actually purposely walk into circumstances looking for what kind of

kind acts can I bring into this circumstance that maybe even change the circumstance by my

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action of kindness.

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You know, one of the things that that makes me wonder about is why some people are kind

and others aren't.

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I don't know if you have a good answer to that.

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You probably do.

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But, you know, there's a question of where does kindness come from?

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Where does it flow from?

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Yeah, I don't know about you, but sometimes I wake up being nice and sometimes I wake up

not being nice.

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And I think all of us have a uh flesh and a sin principle that lives inside of us.

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And if we really stop and think about it this way.

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Unkindness is is sinfulness.

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ah It comes from that sinful fleshly side of us, the selfish side of us.

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And when I see unkindness come out of me, and I don't know if you ever do this or not, but

sometimes I'll be in a conversation and I find myself angry and I say something or do

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something that is anger driven.

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to me, there's two things that are that are bad there.

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Number one is I was unkind to that person or to that in that circumstance.

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But number two, my flesh is driving my it's it's not it's not the spirit.

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The real problem is I I am not letting the spirit guide me.

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I'm not letting the spirit control me.

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I'm I'm not filled with the spirit when that happens.

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And I actually think the core of of what makes us kind and not kind

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is is the Lord.

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I will say this that God made humans to to have certain values.

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And I think kindness is a core human value.

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It actually flows out of loving other people.

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And that core human value is is so essential.

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And I you're you're in those child rearing days, when Anna and I were

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doing child rearing.

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We studied through a book called raising kids God's way.

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And one of the things that really stuck with me from that study was that we have a

responsibility of parents of placing core values into our children's lives.

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And the very best way for us to police core values in our kids lives is to live them, but

also to teach them.

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the core value of what I put that book called and what I have grown to live with is is

what we call the preciousness of others is living in such a way that I recognize that the

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people around me are precious and I need to care for them.

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need to I need to take care of them.

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My wife and I were talking about this when we were talking about this episode.

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And she reminded me

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that this thought comes to her mind on a regular idea on a regular basis because we go to

the grocery store all the time.

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When when we're taking a cart out to our car and unloading the car, or the cart and put it

in the car.

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You know, sometimes you're in a hurry and you just want to find a close by place to stash

that cart not take the time to put it all the way back away.

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And

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that's that's selfishness, leaving it where I last used it.

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The preciousness of others would say I gotta put that cart back, because that cart might

hit somebody else's car, that cart might be in somebody else's way.

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And thinking not just of myself, but of others and the preciousness of others.

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And so, I kindness has to flow from that, that core value that that

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I like to call the preciousness of others.

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You know, it reminds me of the Great Shema.

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And I know that sounds like why would a cart being put back remind you of the Great Shema?

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Well, the Great Shema Deuteronomy 6, 4 says, love the Lord your God with all your heart

and love your neighbor as yourself.

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And Jesus also reiterated these are the two greatest commandments that the whole law

hinges on.

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Well, if you love God, you will love people.

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And when you see somebody doing something like putting a cart back, holding a door,

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to me there's something really, really attractive about that.

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And I think the reason that it's attractive is because it's reflective of God and his

character.

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That's what makes that attractive.

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And so it makes people want to get to know that person more.

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And that's the beauty of kindness.

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Yeah.

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In fact, as you were saying that I'm thinking to myself, the people who are like that, I

find myself saying, boy, I'd like to get to know that person.

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So yeah, that that really is true.

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Yeah, it's a strategy too, in terms of if you're somebody who loves the gospel and loves

sharing the gospel and you're thinking about who you can reach, there's a strategic aspect

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to being a kind person.

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Yeah, I one of the key elements to relational evangelism is helping the people that we're

trying to introduce to Jesus, helping them to get to the place where they want to hear the

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gospel.

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I have certainly in my lifetime, by the way, I started a church and you know what this is

like, George, when you start a church, I knocked on

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thousands of doors in my lifetime.

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And frankly, what I was thinking more than anything else was I, I got to get them to

listen to the gospel.

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And I've grown to appreciate the thought process that if I am patient and use strategy of

relational connections, I can get that person to want to hear the gospel.

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And when they want to hear the gospel, it's going to be much more effective of penetrating

their hearts.

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You know, um, it's, there's a phrase that I've used over and over again in ministry, which

is, um, people don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care.

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And I think that that's, that's really important.

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there's a pay to play kind of reality aspect to ministry.

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which is, you know, we have to have that relational credit in the bank before we can.

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before we can really have an audience with people.

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Yeah.

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And and I call that pocket change that our relational pocket change.

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If you start spending money that you don't have, you're going into the negative in that

relationship, and it's going to hurt the relationship.

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But if we if we build up pocket change, and kindness is a great way to build pocket

change, it's it's just and by the way, it's what we ought to be doing all the time.

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So yes, it is a strategy, but it ought to be a lifestyle.

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But but

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that lifestyle of kindness is going to set us up to be able to touch people with the real

truth that we're trying to get to.

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Right?

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Right?

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And I don't think it's just a pragmatic strategy like that we came up with.

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I think it's Jesus's pattern of ministry.

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Absolutely.

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That phrase that you have taught me that Jesus showed compassion before confrontation.

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I think that's really a great phrase, George, that he really and not just in terms of, I

got to set the stage so I can be confrontational.

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But if I can just show person, this compassion, I understand I appreciate where you're

standing.

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I may even not ever have to get to a confrontation because of the work that does.

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Yep, that's exactly right.

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Because it changes the way they listen to what you say next, right?

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It changes, you know, are they gonna be on the defensive or are they gonna be open?

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It's all determined by the approach.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And I do think that it's valuable for us to recognize here that there was confrontation in

Jesus life.

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He didn't just be nice to everybody and let's play nice and everybody be nice to each

other.

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I mean, he confronted evil, and especially evil among spiritual leaders, he really had it

out on them.

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But I, I think that we can recognize

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that in his reaching to lost people, people who maybe were ignorant about their sins or or

captured by their sins.

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You know, you think of Matthew, or Levi, he was not ignorant of his sins, he knew what he

was doing, but he was captured, and Jesus set him free.

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So that compassion before confrontation allowed him to rescue him.

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But when there was no rescuing, he stood up for truth.

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You know, I think the example there is Nicodemus because you could see the kindness that

Jesus showed to a Pharisee of the Pharisees, a member of the Sanhedrin.

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Somebody was very influential and high up in the religious oligarchy of that day.

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And there was extreme kindness to show.

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And also we know that the Apostle John was a relative of

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somebody who is in the high priest's office or the high priest himself.

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And so Jesus was not hostile to everybody associated and everybody in the religious caste

of his day.

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There's plenty of evidence that he showed compassion, but when the truth was rejected, he

stated the fact about what the resulting judgment would be of that rejection, in effect

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preaching the gospel completely and fully, even in his approach to Paul.

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He was extremely compassionate to Paul.

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He could have killed Paul for what Paul was doing to the church.

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But instead he redeemed Paul and then chose him and deployed him to be part of his

ministry.

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And so there is incredible compassion in that.

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that's that is so beautiful about Jesus.

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I think that sometimes because we tend to be a little contentious about things that we are

right about.

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uh We almost use Jesus contention with the religious leaders as an excuse for the way we

behave.

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When the writer when Luke was summing up Jesus life in the book of Acts, he used this

phrase Jesus went about

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doing good.

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And so that that was that kindness was Jesus pattern.

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I mean, it's not just that we're saying that and we know we, we kind of want to build this

concept of kindness that that that's what Jesus did with his life.

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He went around doing good.

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Yeah, I think it's important that we understand that Jesus' ministry started at a certain

phase in his life and that he had been building relationships.

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It's obvious he had been building relationships around himself and in the places where God

had him before he launched his ministry, that there was this, know, people knew this man

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to be a kind person before what we think of as the start of it.

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Yeah, and this is another one of the points that you brought up when you suggested this

concept.

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kindness earns relational credibility in a hostile or skeptical culture.

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And I think that we have to recognize that we we are taking the gospel to people who have

been burned.

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And, you know, they've been cared for before.

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And, and then someone used them.

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And I think sometimes it might take a little more

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long term kindness on our part, to be able to get past the hostility and the skeptical

nature of certain people in our culture.

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And and I think it's interesting that Jesus literally lived a perfect life for 30 years

before he began his earthly ministry.

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And we know there are all kinds of cultural things that go along with that in the Jesus

didn't become a rabbi.

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teacher until he was 30 because of the way the structure cultural structure went.

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But at the same time, I think it is necessary or valuable for us to be able to think in

terms of the fact that Jesus literally spent 10 times more time setting himself up for

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ministry than he did in ministry 30 years of setting himself up and then three years of

ministry.

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And it behooves us.

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to utilize kindness to earn relational credibility.

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I think it behooves us to do that.

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Jesus did that.

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Yep.

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And we're not at all saying, just be kind, you know, for an ever and ever and never share

the actual truth, the actual gospel of Jesus Christ.

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This is just, you know, looking at the life of Christ and looking at the four gospels in

the New Testament and saying, hey, there's a pattern here that this was a starting,

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jumping off point for Jesus.

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And so we still share the gospel.

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It's important to get to the gospel.

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Absolutely.

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And George, you and I constantly have to warn people that relational evangelism is not an

end unto itself, you just are nice to people and wait for them to ask you.

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We are literally always looking for places to give the gospel where a person has that need

to know.

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We're always looking for that.

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So we dare not say, okay, kindness is the first gift, therefore, and then kind of almost

use that as a substitute for the gospel, instead of as you would say, a starting point for

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that we're going to utilize that kindness to be able to give the gospel.

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Well, and in our world today, kindness almost has become a gospel of its own.

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And what the world sometimes means by kindness is that anything that offends anybody is

unkind.

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And so you can only be kind if you never offend.

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And the only thing we don't tolerate in the world is intolerance.

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And so...

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The problem with that is, is then kindness becomes the gospel with that sort of, you know,

postmodern philosophy instead of the gospel being the gospel.

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And so it's important that people understand that kindness is not everything, not at all.

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Absolutely.

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You know, the gospel is life, literally gives life to people.

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But people who reject the gospel, the gospel is death.

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And and so I think we have to recognize that there is a genuineness to the offensiveness

of the gospel.

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I was doing a study for a sermon that I preached in my home church.

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And there is a

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liberal bent and liberal religion that rejects propitiation that rejects anything that

says I am bad enough to need to be rescued to need a substitute death.

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And the substitutionary death of Jesus is offensive to those who reject it.

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And we have to be recognizing that kindness is important, but it is is not

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the end all it is not the gospel the gospel is Jesus died in our place to rescue us from

our sin and we need a Savior

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Yeah, and I think if there was ever a worthwhile New Year's resolution, you could say, for

2026, it would be to identify people that need Jesus Christ and identify ways we can be

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kind to them and then invite them to come meet Jesus and see for themselves from the

Bible.

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Um, I mean, would you say that would be kind of like the call to action?

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The CTA we could say in the marketing world for this conversation is takeaway for the

listener would be, Hey, I mean, 2026, who can you be kind to?

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Yeah, and I think the key to that is kindness is literally us aiming at the gospel.

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The ultimate goal is getting to the gospel.

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And so I want to challenge our listeners that let's make the gospel the ultimate goal for

our life in 2026.

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If we are indeed making the gospel significant,

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I think how in the world could I go an entire year without taking the gospel to someone?

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So I think a gauge of how I am living a gospel centered, my life is aimed at the gospel

life would be, does a year go by that I haven't given the gospel to someone?

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And so I think at the beginning of a year,

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it is really, really valuable.

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And I would just encourage every pastor that's listening, every deacon that's listening,

every elder that's listening, every church member that's listening.

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Let's determine in our hearts, I want to commit myself to doing an exchange Bible study

with an unbeliever in 2026.

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And we'll probably mention this a couple of weeks in a row here at the beginning of the

year, because I, I feel like if we could get

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I'm not saying the only way to lead someone to Christ or to give the gospel is the

exchange Bible study.

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But I will say this.

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If you do the exchange Bible study with an unbeliever, they will have heard the gospel in

a way that they understand and get it.

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And and so I just believe that if if if our listeners will

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commit themselves to doing this, we would literally see 1000s of people come to Christ

just from this simple podcast, and people making a decision I want to do an exchange Bible

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study with someone in 2026.

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You know, I was thinking as you were saying all that, that, maybe one of the most unkind

things we can do as believers is hold this truth and, um, hold what we know to be true

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about Jesus and how loving and wonderful person he is inside for a whole year and never

share it with anybody else.

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And, um, you know, it's kindness.

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I mean, to, give the gospel is, is an act of kindness, because you

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Vaughn, who is one of our app developers, he's kind of the real driving force behind our

app and getting our Bible studies in our app.

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His phrase is the kindest thing that a human can do to another human is give them the

gospel.

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I love that.

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Well, I mean, in summary, what we've basically said here is if you could only give one

gift to another person in 2026, it should be kindly sharing the gospel with them.

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That kindness is going to build trust.

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It's going to disarm the suspicions about you as a Christian.

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It's going to create real relationship and the gospel then can be shared, not as a sales

pitch, but as a loving invitation.

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um And so.

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It's not a substitute kindness is not a substitute for the gospel.

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It is a starting point and Jesus's pattern was compassion before confrontation and You

know in a hostile and skeptical culture like the culture we have here in the United States

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Kindness is the the price to earn that relational credibility to have a platform where we

can share the gospel and in a relational manner But if kindness doesn't lead to truth

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I really don't think it's the kindness of God.

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It's the kind of kindness he would endorse.

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Kindness doesn't replace truth.

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It is just a bridge.

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And so that's what we want to challenge you guys with as the listeners.

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Any last thoughts, Jeff?

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I love this episode and I love that you brought it up.

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I love that thought Jesus went about doing good.

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That's I want I want my days to be spent that way.

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Well, we are praying for you guys.

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You guys are the laborers in the harvest.

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The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.

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And let's be praying that the Lord of the harvest would call more laborers.

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We love you guys.

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We're praying for you and we will see you next week.