Track 2: Every podcast consists of three parts, or acts. The first part is called The Pledge.

Track 2: That's where I tell you that this week, on Left of the Projector,

Track 2: we are dipping into the filmography of Christopher Nolan, with his 2006 film, The Prestige.

Track 2: That's the ordinary part of this episode. The second act is called The Turn.

Track 2: That's where I tell you all the amazing actors in this film,

Track 2: including the late, great David Bowie, Hugh Jackman, Christian Bale,

Track 2: Michael Caine, Scarlett Johansson, Rebecca Hall, and Andy Serkis.

Track 2: This is where we take the ordinary and tell you we are going to do something extraordinary.

Track 2: We have Alexa Speed as our guest today, whom you may know from her page Cut Off the Spigot.

Track 2: And now, though, we have to deliver the third act, the hardest part,

Track 2: the part we call the prestige.

Track 2: Sit back in your seats, get something to eat, and watch this movie. We don't want to kiss you.

Track 2: Video. Thank you.

Track 2: If you'd like to support the show for as little as $3 a month,

Track 2: you can go to Patreon forward slash Left of the Projector Pod.

Track 2: If you'd like to dress in style, we've got shirts.

Track 2: And at leftoftheprojectorpod.threadless.com, you can grab one and show everyone

Track 2: you've got the best taste around.

Track 2: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe so you'll be notified

Track 2: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday.

Track 2: And now on to the show. Welcome to the show, Alexa.

Track 1: Speed from Cut Off the Spigot. Basically, I go category by category to find

Track 1: alternatives to badly behaving companies, big corporations, and private equity firms.

Track 1: That's pretty awesome. That's an awesome resource, especially,

Track 1: you know, I mean, it feels like a challenge just to live in this world nowadays

Track 1: and try to make, you know, good ethical choices.

Track 1: I mean, there is no, you know, ethical consumption under capitalism,

Track 1: but, you know, we try to do our best, you know, and honestly,

Track 1: that's an incredible resource.

Track 1: So, you know, thank you for everybody. I'm thanking you for everybody. No, I appreciate that.

Track 1: Oh, and I think I was saying in our emails back and forth, when I go to your

Track 1: page and you can see how many people you know that follow someone else,

Track 1: a very low number of people that I follow also follow your page.

Track 1: So if you are listening, you should check it out. And what are some of the ones

Track 1: you've done recently that people might be able to check out?

Track 1: Yeah, so I have a video that's kind of a good summary of brands to boycott because

Track 1: they collaborate with ICE in some form or another.

Track 1: And then the alternatives to those companies. And then I did a specific one

Track 1: on AT&T alternatives because they have a huge, I think it's $83 million contract with ICE.

Track 1: So if you're looking for ice boycott alternatives, definitely check out my page.

Track 1: Another kind of big series I did was Spotify Alternatives. So that has six parts.

Track 1: So if you listen to podcasts or audiobooks or want a free version,

Track 1: any of that, I've got you covered.

Track 1: That is how I found your page, actually, was Spotify. And actually led me to cancel Spotify.

Track 1: Wow. So, you know, it's, yeah, so...

Track 1: Yeah, no, it's pretty cool. It's actually doing that series.

Track 1: I switched to Kobuz, which is my preferred alternative, at least if you're going

Track 1: to get a paid subscription.

Track 1: But there were so many cool things that I found through that, too.

Track 1: Radio Paradise, which is free, basically a free radio streaming app, but you can skip tracks.

Track 1: That's fun. I mean, also, as we advocate in the show, anyone should have a library

Track 1: card to their local library.

Track 1: You'd be amazed how many video movies you can watch through.

Track 1: New York doesn't have Canopy, but many places do. And so you can get.

Track 1: Use your local library or my wife will divorce me for not plugging the library. She is a librarian.

Track 1: Go to the library. She will yell at me.

Track 1: Yes, everyone should go to the library. But so we are talking about The Prestige.

Track 1: And so as I usually do, I send a list of a number of films. And I know,

Track 1: Alexa, you had picked a few of them from the list. We kind of were narrowing it down.

Track 1: But what is your maybe relationship with The Prestige or history with it,

Track 1: having watched it in the past?

Track 1: As we said, it came out in 2006. So it's been out for almost, well, I guess 20 years.

Track 1: So I'm curious what your overall history with it is.

Track 1: Yeah so when it first came out i'm pretty sure i saw it with my dad in the theater,

Track 1: 2006 i was 17 so it was right around high

Track 1: school college time and i remember loving it i remembered the twist and and

Track 1: all that and i thought it was such a great movie but i'm not really a movie

Track 1: re-watcher once i've seen something unless it's really really good or it's one

Track 1: of those movies where you can,

Track 1: I guess the prestige is kind of this, but one of those movies where you can

Track 1: watch six times and always discover some little new plot detail that you didn't catch the last time.

Track 1: So I basically really loved it when it came out and then never watched it again.

Track 1: But I have to say on this rewatch, I was very excited because it was nice to

Track 1: be sort of refreshed with what happened.

Track 1: And even though I knew the twist, it was still pretty interesting.

Track 1: And so and I I don't think I realized when it came out that it was a Christopher Nolan movie.

Track 1: So it's interesting to see it from that perspective. Now seeing so much of his later work.

Track 1: Yeah. I think I was having, this is completely an aside, but I think Bill and

Track 1: I were having a conversation recently about, you know, when people go to the

Track 1: movie, are they consciously thinking about like, oh, that's the new Christopher Nolan movie?

Track 1: And I think the average person probably doesn't think about that.

Track 1: I didn't think about that when this came out.

Track 1: I didn't know who Christopher Nolan was in 2006. yeah he wasn't

Track 1: i mean he wasn't he

Track 1: he was i think he was kind of up and coming because i

Track 1: mean he did this is after memento and memento was

Track 1: a big hit and a big that was kind of cult phenomenon the big thing but and i

Track 1: think christopher nolan is one of the few directors who that even like even

Track 1: the average person who's not a movie nerd does go oh this is a christopher Nolan

Track 1: movie. Oh, yeah. Okay. This is Christopher Nolan.

Track 1: But by and large, I don't think, and I don't think at this time,

Track 1: outside of people who were in movies, I don't think they were like Christopher.

Track 1: You forgot about Batman Begins came out before this. Oh, you're right. You're right.

Track 1: So, yeah. I totally forgot Batman Begins came out before this. Yeah.

Track 1: So, yeah. I do think at this time, Christopher Nolan was one of those names

Track 1: that people, yeah, they would be like, oh, it's a.

Track 1: Batman, like I, I'm a comic fan, like back, you know, and I'm, I was a huge fan.

Track 1: Like I loved that. Maybe all I love the Nolan Batman trilogy.

Track 1: And I think this is his by far best movie.

Track 1: I agree with that, too. Now I feel like I need to go watch all those movies again.

Track 1: Like, I thought it was good, but now it's like, oh, it's the best. I don't know.

Track 1: It's probably not a popular opinion, I would say. I actually,

Track 1: like, I think when we get to the second half, or when we talk about the second half a little bit more,

Track 1: or I guess I could talk about it now, but, like, the way that the movie is directed,

Track 1: And it's a lot of different time cuts that you're going through and different places.

Track 1: And as I was watching it, I was like, this is masterfully executed because it unfolds.

Track 1: Like, it doesn't feel like you are being jerked around between these different

Track 1: time periods and locations. It's like, oh, no, it's just like beautifully unfolding.

Track 1: Yeah. Like, I think that a lot of people look at like some of his other movies

Track 1: and they're so ambitious and they're so grand in scope.

Track 1: But, and I, I think that in a lot of ways, this movie is more intimate.

Track 1: And I think people think that like, they look at like his other movies,

Track 1: like, oh, it's so, you know, whatever inception, you know, oh,

Track 1: it's such a, so, you know, it's the dream.

Track 1: And they, they made the thing and blah, blah, blah, the spinning rooms and all that shit.

Track 1: Right. But like this, it's like, it's a little more intimate and all the,

Track 1: like most of his other movies. Yeah.

Track 1: 90% of it slots together perfectly in the end. But then there's some real just

Track 1: like, oh, he dropped that ball.

Track 1: You watch this movie and it's like, oh, there's not, he didn't,

Track 1: no, nothing was dropped.

Track 1: It's solid all the way through. It's perfect.

Track 1: Not a single drop thread, not a single, listen, he walked in one door,

Track 1: threw that ball, walked through it, caught on the other side.

Track 1: Done. End of conversation. No, he really did.

Track 1: Well, and for people who maybe, who's been a while since they've seen it,

Track 1: just has like a brief context on kind of the overarching or the setup of the film.

Track 1: It takes place in the 1890s in London, and it's basically about the life of

Track 1: two different magicians played by Hugh Jackman and Christian Bale.

Track 1: Hugh Jackman is Robert Angier, and Christian Bale is Alfred Borden.

Track 1: And they're kind of having this—initially, they're kind of working together

Track 1: under the same tutelage of, like, Michael Caine, sort of their producer,

Track 1: I guess you could say, or agent. I don't know what his official title would have been. Manager?

Track 1: Mentor. I don't think he's not working. They're not working under him.

Track 1: Michael Caine is working under, they're all working underneath the same guy.

Track 1: Whoever that first magician is, like the great Alfred or whatever.

Track 1: I don't fucking remember his name. Right, right, right. Yeah,

Track 1: I guess the beginning, yeah.

Track 1: They all just work for him and I think Michael Caine is really more of a back

Track 1: of the, you know, it's like he's not the showman, but he's a highly respected,

Track 1: well-known, you know, what they call him. He finds tricks for them to perform.

Track 1: Right. He's an engineer, an engineer, as they say, which I'm like,

Track 1: why, why are we putting this French spin on engineer?

Track 1: But like, you know, he's the engineer, I believe they say it,

Track 1: how they say it. It's like the imagineer.

Track 1: Yes. Yes. That's exactly it. They all really just work for one guy and he just

Track 1: sees, he sees potential in them.

Track 1: Right. And so, and so, and at the time also, the, as added piece of this is

Track 1: that Hugh Jackman is married and his wife is sort of one of the assistants and

Track 1: he's sort of, and she ends up dying during a water tank, you know, extract escape.

Track 1: And he blames, you know, he blames this on Christian Bale and they basically create a lifelong,

Track 1: you know, back and forth between them, you know, pursuing their careers,

Track 1: going after each other, trying to sabotage one another, you know,

Track 1: being odd at their tricks and then trying to one up them.

Track 1: So it's this constant struggle between them.

Track 1: And I don't know. I mean, you said the film has so many different timelines,

Track 1: Alexa, like it has the present time where the opening is where Christian Bale

Track 1: is being arrested for murdering Hugh Jackman.

Track 1: So you start the movie, Hugh Jackman is dead.

Track 1: Christian Bale is on trial and going to be executed for it.

Track 1: And then it starts going back and forth into each of them kind of remembering

Track 1: their past. And it's just.

Track 1: By reading each other's diaries simultaneously.

Track 1: Yeah, it's crazy.

Track 1: I didn't even think about that till you said that, that it's really the diaries

Track 1: is how we're experiencing them, like the memories.

Track 1: It's like, to me, it was even that more, much more seamless where I was like,

Track 1: oh yeah, this is a diary. They're reading the diary. Yeah.

Track 1: Which I, this, I hadn't thought of this until now. And you think about this

Track 1: sometimes in films or like a book you read where it's the first person and you're

Track 1: getting the story from an individual person.

Track 1: So what happened may not have actually happened that way.

Track 1: That's sort of the way that one person is telling the story,

Track 1: but each of them are reading each other's version of the events.

Track 1: And so like you wonder also is how much of it is accurate.

Track 1: And it seems like they're, you know, I don't know. You never get the impression

Track 1: that either of them are like, that's not what I did.

Track 1: They seem to both have owned up to being complete pieces of shit to each other.

Track 1: Yeah it's it's

Track 1: crazy their rivalry just gets to such a point

Track 1: and in the beginning i feel like at

Track 1: least for me watching it you're more invested and you're like oh

Track 1: like who's gonna win they're always one-upping each other and then

Track 1: by the end it's just like what were

Track 1: you doing yeah what is

Track 1: wrong with you point of all this yeah what is

Track 1: wrong with you people what is your problem and the

Track 1: the the thing that i think like fits to me at

Track 1: the beginning when i'm thinking about this kind of as like a leftist perspective

Track 1: is so well i guess for one i mentioned happens in 1890s london and

Track 1: for people who may know or not know at that time this is sort

Track 1: of considered the technical technological revolution or the second industrial

Track 1: revolution where mass production of things were starting to are starting to

Track 1: happen and we also see a very distinct class dynamic between the two of them

Track 1: like christian bale is very clearly poor you know does not come for money Whereas

Track 1: as we go through the film,

Track 1: we see that Christian Bale is definitely a man of means as he meets Tesla later in the film.

Track 1: And he uses a lot of money to, you know, procure a new trick.

Track 1: Huge action. What did I say?

Track 1: Christian Bell. Hugh Jackman is the man. Yes, Hugh Jackman, yes.

Track 1: He is the wealthy one. And so it has like a distinct class dynamic,

Track 1: which I would imagine would be very important in that era especially.

Track 1: We do get an allusion to that early on when the wife mentions the name and he

Track 1: goes you know, that he that he's playing a part.

Track 1: She says, you are playing a part. And he goes, I'm just using a different name

Track 1: i promised my family i wouldn't sully our good name with my whatever like my

Track 1: performances or whatever yeah like you get the hint at the beginning yeah.

Track 1: And yeah i think i think it's is it pretty early on

Track 1: in the beginning too when like the mystery lord

Track 1: visits and like talks to christian bale's character

Track 1: about how like he's going to be so destitute and his

Track 1: daughter won't be able to survive and she's going to go to the

Track 1: workhouse and so like even

Track 1: though you see later in the film that christian bale's doing okay like

Track 1: it's still that there's just no so like from a leftist

Track 1: perspective there's absolutely no social safety net

Track 1: and it's pretty striking and

Track 1: off the bat yeah like the the and that's another thing too that you that you

Track 1: sort of you find out early on he's in prison he has a daughter and then you're

Track 1: like oh i wonder who his like his wife is and like what how did that happen

Track 1: and then And they sort of weave that portion into it where it's such a well-crafted,

Track 1: as we keep saying, is that you don't get a detail and then they sort of tell

Track 1: you that detail through multiple perspectives at the same time,

Track 1: which is just, I don't even know how you even make this.

Track 1: You know, I'm not a filmmaker, so I don't know anything, but this seems very challenging.

Track 1: Yeah, I feel like it would be, it's like you're writing it from like both the

Track 1: front end and the back end and the middle and making it all work together.

Track 1: Yeah, and the thing that also is happening at the same time,

Track 1: well, part of their feud escalation is they're essentially just keep sabotaging each other's acts.

Track 1: And so one of the tricks that I think that Borden, who is the Christian Bale's

Track 1: character, wants to do this bullet catch, which is sort of like you're catching

Track 1: a bullet, which isn't actually in the gun.

Track 1: And, you know, it's kind of everything is sort of these sleight of hands.

Track 1: But then Hugh Jackman shows up and actually shoots him and he loses two of his

Track 1: fingers, which imagining being a magician and you now have two less fingers

Track 1: to be able to do all of your things is...

Track 1: And also just warned him, though. Yeah, she did.

Track 1: She did warn him. And he literally said, well, if someone crazy comes up, then I'm screwed.

Track 1: But otherwise, I'll be fine. And then it's like, you have a feud with another magician.

Track 1: Yeah. What could possibly happen?

Track 1: It's funny because this movie truly is so well written and directed and the

Track 1: story unfolds so beautifully.

Track 1: But sometimes, like, some of the things the characters do, they're such idiots.

Track 1: Pure ego. There's, like, a very simple way not to do this. It's pure ego.

Track 1: It's all about ego and hubris.

Track 1: Like, that's all. This is a huge story of hubris and ego.

Track 1: Yeah, and obsession. I think for Christian Bale, because he's relatively poor

Track 1: or, like, you know, fairly low.

Track 1: Like, when he's first, when he's having an argument with his wife about the

Track 1: bullet catch, they live in, like, a pretty crummy apartment.

Track 1: You know in this apartment building and he's essentially each of

Track 1: them seems to it seems to be this case where once

Track 1: they have a new trick that's really popular all of a sudden

Track 1: they start getting you know more tickets and money and then

Track 1: they all of a sudden he has like a nicer you know it's like a brownstone or

Track 1: some kind of nicer place because of it and so

Track 1: he's he's they're both like completely willing to

Track 1: take any kind of risk to one-up each other

Track 1: and also just to be the best like they

Track 1: have no well it's interesting

Track 1: because they they talk a lot about he jackman's

Track 1: character like not wanting to get his hands dirty um and whereas with christian

Track 1: bale's character he is almost forced to get his hands dirty because he doesn't

Track 1: have the means to like he has to make the trick work because he needs to you

Track 1: know have a decent living situation and all that like.

Track 1: This really comes to, I mean, the class dynamic is a huge aspect of this because

Track 1: really Hugh Jackman's character, Angier, like he doesn't have to sacrifice.

Track 1: He can fail. This really boils down to the kind of like, to me,

Track 1: thinking about it more, it really brings to mind the way we live now in this concept of world.

Track 1: Since the advent of like, you know, the, since the.com era, the.com boom,

Track 1: and like the advent of computers, how like the tech oligarchy and the tech bros

Track 1: have just continually been like, you know what?

Track 1: We can do everything because we can code.

Track 1: We could do everything. We demand that we get credit for everything. We have AI.

Track 1: We can make art now. We're artists now. Oh, we can, we can run. We can do this.

Track 1: We were musicians now because they have the means of the production to basically.

Track 1: Make a facsimile of such things.

Track 1: And Danton, or I'm sorry, not Danton. He's not Danton yet.

Track 1: And Gier is just basically like, you know what? I'm rich. I want to be a magician.

Track 1: Like, I want to do this. And it's like, man, like, meanwhile,

Track 1: Christian Bale's like, listen, I got to sell tickets or we're not getting food.

Track 1: And this guy, he could just, he could pack it up anytime. Go home.

Track 1: He's fine. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing that's kind of crazy about all of

Track 1: it is that, and again, it goes back to my frustration of like the whole thing.

Track 1: Yeah. It's all ego. It's so, it's, it's just this obsession with ego.

Track 1: And speaking of, like, the tech bros and tech oligarchy, but, like,

Track 1: I thought, you know, they're using the birds and the trick to make them disappear

Track 1: and reappear, but the bird dies and they kill it.

Track 1: And I thought that was such a kind of beautiful analogy for like,

Track 1: just like tech companies. And it's like, oh, it's all this beautiful stuff. Like it's AI.

Track 1: It's going to make you magic, you know, pictures and do all your tasks and all these amazing things.

Track 1: But it's not showing you. It's like, this is all the magic, but it's not showing

Track 1: you the bird that dies, which is like environmental impacts.

Track 1: Like the amount of, you know, copyrighted material that they're just using blatantly and all that stuff.

Track 1: And it's like, I don't know. I just don't look behind the curtain.

Track 1: Yeah, exactly. Like, and it's just like, oh, we'll just hide it away. Shush.

Track 1: You know, I mean, I think that's I mean, I don't know how much Nolan was thinking about the idea of just.

Track 1: You know, as I, as I, maybe we'll get to soon, because when we get to sort of

Track 1: like the later, as you were kind of talking about sort of the second half of

Track 1: the film, or even like the last third,

Track 1: when Tesla comes in, and we have sort of these other components is that all of capitalism,

Track 1: is an illusion.

Track 1: This movie, all of it is just one big, as you said, Bill, like,

Track 1: it's don't peek behind the curtain,

Track 1: don't see the exploitation of the of, you know,

Track 1: the global south and all of the things that are letting you

Track 1: be able to do all these things and at the time the

Track 1: thing that was like the illusion was oh you know

Track 1: if i want a new hat i can just go to the store because they can just mass mass

Track 1: produce hundreds of hats where it used to be someone had

Track 1: to have an artist would have to actually craft my hat and it

Track 1: required you know artistry and you know all these

Track 1: different things and i don't know like even in

Track 1: some ways beyond that of it's it's sort

Track 1: of the economy if you think about it we look at gdp and

Track 1: the stock market and it's like we have the magic of the

Track 1: stock market always going up and up and up but then we don't see what's happening

Track 1: behind the scenes which is all the people struggling to even pay like day-to-day

Track 1: expenses even biden he was like oh the economy's great and it's like what are

Track 1: you talking about for who yeah for who for who,

Track 1: and again and again it's the same thing with like you know angers it's like

Track 1: oh yeah this is all great well yeah because man like,

Track 1: You can walk away. You're fine.

Track 1: This is all gravy for you, man. Even his squalid apartment that he lives with

Track 1: his wife, that was not like, you know, they were living the nice,

Track 1: they were living the high life.

Track 1: She also was, you know, they're out there on a bark just doing,

Track 1: you know, they're pretending to be poor. He loses his wife because he's out there doing this.

Track 1: He loses something important because he's doing something that he doesn't need to be doing.

Track 1: At the end of the day. I mean, yes, we realize Christian Bale tied the other

Track 1: knot he wasn't supposed to do. We don't know that.

Track 1: We don't know that. I don't know enough about knots to be able to tell,

Track 1: but she nods to him to be like, yes, please tie that other knot. I can do it.

Track 1: She was at least in on it, even if they made the wrong decision.

Track 1: Yeah, and we understand. He's not going to admit to it. I mean,

Track 1: he, he, you know, he comes to the funeral and he's like, oh,

Track 1: I don't know which knot I tie like that.

Track 1: He asked him that constantly, you know, the rest of the film is like,

Track 1: oh, what knot did you tie?

Track 1: He's like, oh, I don't, I don't know. I can't remember. And like,

Track 1: he knows which knot he tied. I feel like you're a magician.

Track 1: You know, I do. I do think it's funny. And this is to go back.

Track 1: And this is just about the bullet catch trick.

Track 1: You would just never put the bullet in the thing at all. There would be no trick ramrod.

Track 1: You just wouldn't put the bullet in. They just bombed the bullet.

Track 1: Like you're trained. Like I call it.

Track 1: It's slight of hand. Like you would just not do that, but you would never be in there at all.

Track 1: But that's not what happened. What happened was that I know that I'm well aware.

Track 1: I'm just saying he's like showing.

Track 1: He's like, this is how we make sure that it's like, no, it's never even be in

Track 1: it at all. There would be no trick ramrod.

Track 1: You just, No, no one's no one's doing that fucking psychotic.

Track 1: No, that wouldn't be what you do. Yeah, that's true.

Track 1: That's a good point. And like the there was something I was going to mention

Track 1: about the the classes and stuff, too, but I forgot what it was.

Track 1: I think I lost it.

Track 1: I mean, as the like, so I think this is the point in the film where sort of

Track 1: things become like their their rivalry, like becomes to a new level when Borden

Track 1: releases a new illusion called the transported man,

Track 1: where I think you were saying with the ball, he goes into one sort of closet

Track 1: and he bounces the ball before he does.

Track 1: And he opens the other closet and he's there again and he picks up the ball

Track 1: and the trick goes viral as it would be like in 1890 Britain or whatever.

Track 1: It's like he's selling tickets, people are talking about it.

Track 1: I mean, they keep saying a lot of times how people are talking about the trick.

Track 1: Like were people talking about magic tricks in 1890?

Track 1: I guess you have a lot else to do. Yeah, I mean, I would say because theater

Track 1: was like, you know, you don't have like the- Yeah, yeah, true, true.

Track 1: Now and so theater was a big thing and like even i

Track 1: mean like there would be crazy stuff that

Track 1: would like come through new york city and everybody would be like oh we gotta

Track 1: go see the thing you know yeah that's true true that was a part that part did

Track 1: make sense this this is the i mean not the height of but this is the early era

Track 1: of vaudeville in which you know vaudeville was that That was culture.

Track 1: That was what people went out to see.

Track 1: So, you know, vaudeville basically ran from 1870s to 1930s.

Track 1: So we are looking at, you know, within the first 20 years of vaudeville and

Track 1: it being so, you know, huge.

Track 1: Like, yeah, that would be, they didn't have radio.

Track 1: They didn't have TV. That's what they did.

Track 1: Circus is a big thing during this time too. Like the 1890s. Yeah, I would think so.

Track 1: And that, I mean, that's, that's like where the big circuses came from,

Track 1: right? They're from London, right?

Track 1: Like Barlow, Barlow and I can't think of what it's called. Um, not awesome.

Track 1: Yeah. Isn't that a British company?

Track 1: Um, but yeah, no, I guess, I guess that does, so they are, so I guess you would

Track 1: be talking about these things with your, you know, and especially I just also

Track 1: think of a time when people would be on the street corner selling, you know,

Track 1: newspapers and holding up billboards for their things that they're trying to sell.

Track 1: So I imagine you're walking to work or whatever and you see,

Track 1: Oh, like, come here, you know, check out this new magician, you know,

Track 1: just, I don't know, 50 pence or whatever.

Track 1: I don't know who knows what the cost of these things were, but I guess it does

Track 1: make sense. But the illusion, the transported man took, caused Angier to essentially

Track 1: become obsessed that he had to know the trick.

Track 1: And Michael Caine is like, oh, well, he just has a body double who looks exactly like him.

Track 1: And, you know, they found someone and he just goes through a trap door on one

Track 1: side and he already pops through the other side and that's him.

Track 1: But Angier is like convinced that it's not the real thing. And it seems like

Track 1: everything from there spirals because he has to find out how he does this trick.

Track 1: It's like imagining some other capitalist, like, creates the,

Track 1: you know, Henry IV creates the assembly line.

Track 1: It's like, oh, I got to know how he did that so I can, you know,

Track 1: make my profits. And so, I don't know.

Track 1: Yeah, it's really interesting because it's like Hugh Jackman's character has...

Track 1: Money wealth power you know

Track 1: like enough freedom to just go pursue magic

Track 1: and yet he can't like let

Track 1: go of how this one guy does his trick and

Track 1: it's if you think about the classism angle it's

Track 1: kind of interesting because it's like no matter how rich you are

Track 1: like you can't figure out what this like kind

Track 1: of commoner is doing and yeah it's like

Track 1: oh well that that can't be why can this commoner

Track 1: outsmart me and it's just like then you know

Track 1: small falls from there it was always

Track 1: about the fact that in reality and again we

Track 1: come back to the idea of like you know the tech be like

Track 1: i can make art and it's like and they cost like

Track 1: they get so sensitive about it it's like you

Track 1: didn't make art and it's like i can

Track 1: do like i can do what that like you know modernist painter

Track 1: did my child could do this but you didn't do it you didn't do

Track 1: it and then it's the same thing because it's like what dance

Track 1: and sheer admits like basically that christian

Track 1: bell's character you know robert he's he's a better

Track 1: magician he and his weakest and that's really what it is this is about he wants

Track 1: to be better than him and the best part about all this is that Borden tells

Track 1: him the trick Borden tells him before this trick ever happens,

Track 1: before he invents the Entransported Man.

Track 1: Tells him how he does it when they go and watch the guy with the goldfish ball

Track 1: he tells him he's like, this is how he's doing it he lives that life.

Track 1: His entire thing he lives that life his entire thing is the show,

Track 1: he fucking if you're paying, like that's one thing.

Track 1: Listen, I watched this movie the first time, you know, like when it came out,

Track 1: it's all in the theaters and I loved it.

Track 1: And like, I didn't watch it. Like, like Alexa, like, and then I didn't watch it for like 20 years.

Track 1: And then we're like, we're doing the procedure. I'm like, you know what?

Track 1: Fuck. I love that movie. And I'm watching this and it all comes.

Track 1: And I was like, Holy shit.

Track 1: This movie is even better. If you know, if you already know this movie is better.

Track 1: If you already know the twist, if you know all the plot points of this movie

Track 1: and you're watching it again, it's better.

Track 1: It's even better because you're like, Oh wait, he's telling

Track 1: him when you watch that when you watch him tell him that about the

Track 1: the whatever that magician whatever

Track 1: horribly racist name yeah

Track 1: that was a pretty racist but you're you're

Track 1: totally right he that's a i mean that's also i

Track 1: think i was in my partially joking like letterboxd

Track 1: review of the film i said that sort of like the

Track 1: idea of the prestige is sort of a nod

Track 1: to christopher Olsen almost giving a nod to like how he

Track 1: crafts a movie where he is almost building

Track 1: the I mean the movie really is built in that way of the you know the three different

Track 1: you know stages of the of the trick and that's how he crafts this movie like

Track 1: expertly like not that his other movies aren't that way but I think it's how

Track 1: he does it and several times I think they kind of give away.

Track 1: Moments it I can I made it sort of like kind of like fight club once you know

Track 1: like this twist in Fight Club and then you watch it, you're seeing all these

Track 1: things like, oh, they're giving it away there and then they give it away there

Track 1: and they give it away there and it's, I think you're right Bill.

Track 1: I think the movie is so much more fun to watch when you aren't having to be

Track 1: completely fooled about what the twist is, which we will get to.

Track 1: We'll save it a little bit longer. Yeah. Barnum Bailey, Ringling Brothers Barnum

Track 1: and Bailey was an American circus.

Track 1: Okay. They went to England, but they started in 1871 right around the beginning of Vaudeville as well.

Track 1: There you go. All this is, it's all that time when all that stuff was huge.

Track 1: Yeah. I think this is the point in

Track 1: the film where I think there's a lot of interesting things to talk about.

Track 1: And especially, I've actually, I'll get to in a second. There's a book that

Track 1: I'm reading that's completely unrelated to this in every single way,

Track 1: but it talks about, it's called The Extended Universe, and it's how Disney killed

Track 1: the movies and took over the world.

Track 1: And it's a new, it hasn't come out yet. This book is coming out on Haymarket soon.

Track 1: But in it, they talk about Thomas Edison, which plays a small,

Track 1: albeit I think important role in this movie as sort of a parallel rivalry that's happening.

Track 1: So because Hugh Jackman is so, So he needs to beat him on this trick.

Track 1: He travels to Colorado Springs in the United States to meet with Nikola Tesla

Track 1: to try and get him to build him a machine, which is what he believes is how Borden does his trick.

Track 1: So he's convinced that Tesla had built him some kind of machine that enables him to do the transport.

Track 1: What's that? sorry it just like on that note

Track 1: like he believes that there has to be a machine

Track 1: he has to be working with tesla i think kind

Track 1: of again almost goes back to that like tech bro

Track 1: analogy because it's like oh there has

Track 1: like you like you know from an like you were saying from an art perspective

Track 1: like you can't just have created and thought of this beautiful painting you

Track 1: know what i mean like it's it has to be it has to be a trick it has to be like

Track 1: there's more behind it like you must have done something, all this research, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Track 1: Yeah, you can't just have worked and have talent and devote time and energy

Track 1: and effort and passion into something. No, you couldn't.

Track 1: What madman actually did?

Track 1: What's effort into things?

Track 1: Yeah. It's that you can pay for it.

Track 1: Well, I'm going to take it even a step further. So before he actually goes to meet with Tesla,

Track 1: he first brings on a body double who is obviously also played by Hugh Jackman,

Track 1: who is going to be there on the other side while he does his version of the transported man.

Track 1: And then, of course, you know, Christian Bale outs him and, you know,

Track 1: makes it makes him break his leg on the trap door and moves the anyway.

Track 1: But using the copy of himself, like the friend is almost like the idea of using A.I.

Track 1: To be like, well, I can't actually do this trick with art. I have to just copy something else.

Track 1: He literally is copying him by just finding some guy in London who looks like himself.

Track 1: And poorly compensating him. like if he like the

Track 1: reason it works with christian bale is because they're both

Track 1: they're partners they're they're both 100 in

Track 1: they are in it's both of them they are there it's egalitarian it is an egalitarian

Track 1: totally equal relationship and partnership in every way much to both of their

Track 1: detriments psychologically and emotionally deeply fucked up but like they're

Track 1: both totally in it whereas like.

Track 1: You know angiers just exploits some

Track 1: other guy like that's all you know and like

Track 1: i feel like honestly he probably could have just

Track 1: paid him yeah and then and like he has the money so like but he has tried he's

Track 1: trying to figure out a way to pay him the lease or like they could also they

Track 1: could also just let people unionize instead of paying billions of dollars to

Track 1: fight them Yeah, like the New York City nurses strike.

Track 1: Yeah, like, you know, they could also just pay people a living wage,

Track 1: but they're not going to.

Track 1: And then after that fails, he sends his own assistant, who in this is played

Track 1: by Scarlett Johansson, to spy on him, but then defects and falls in love with him.

Track 1: So everything he's doing to try and... Yeah, go ahead. No, I was just going

Track 1: to say, like, I think that the Scarlett Johansson example where he's there,

Track 1: because they're now like dating, hooking up at this point, Hugh Jackman and

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson's characters.

Track 1: But he then sends her away.

Track 1: And yeah, she falls in love with the other guy. But it's just another way that

Track 1: like, people are disposable to Hugh Jackman's character.

Track 1: Like, it's just like, oh, well, I, you are now a pawn in my game against this

Track 1: other man. And it just speaks to the callousness of the character.

Track 1: Even to the point where, you know, up until this point, he's never vocalized it.

Track 1: But, I mean, you get the impression, but when she says to him,

Track 1: let it go, he's like, it's not about my wife.

Track 1: And he he drops he he finally he drops

Track 1: that bomb he's just all it's this isn't about my life

Track 1: no no i don't care yeah and

Track 1: it's and it's like especially the way

Track 1: hugh jackman says it it's just oh it's harsh it's

Track 1: harsh it's like it's like a reaction of like

Track 1: a like you know sometimes that's internal you

Track 1: know he yeah that was not like you know like and

Track 1: kudos to to jackman like for playing that because

Track 1: like he sold that and it's just like you

Track 1: know there was no second thought there was no

Track 1: no that was internal that was an immediate

Track 1: unconscious reaction that was the truth coming

Track 1: out they said about my wife i don't fucking care yeah yeah that is true he's

Track 1: like yeah he's pretty cold like throughout the entire film and i think it like

Track 1: becomes even more present so i mentioned so he goes to colorado springs to meet

Track 1: with the call of tesla who is we kind of like learn a little bit of information

Track 1: about how Tesla is, what he's doing there.

Track 1: And I think that's where is there some other interesting sort of dynamics that's

Track 1: maybe hinted at, but not maybe as sort of the.

Track 1: Reason for the film or i don't know it just like well crafted

Track 1: into the the plot so tesla is providing power

Track 1: to this entire town in exchange for essentially being able

Track 1: to do his research there which he's apparently there

Track 1: because of like the lightning storms allows him to use all of the

Track 1: the power but there's also the same rivalry

Track 1: between tesla and thomas edison and the thing that i reason

Track 1: i mentioned that book before is something that i didn't really know i'm

Track 1: not that well versed on sort of thomas edison's beyond the

Track 1: sort of oh he's a genius and he made a bunch of inventions is that

Track 1: he is extremely important in

Track 1: the blocking and prevention of additional people

Track 1: from making films when he invented the film camera

Track 1: he would send goons to destroy anyone

Track 1: else trying to film movies and so that's why

Track 1: they film in hollywood is because they escaped to hollywood

Track 1: to be able to film movies away from him in new jersey which is where

Track 1: he was located sorry bill for new jersey and

Track 1: is a is a shithole because of because of

Track 1: edison's legacy that's why it's the it's the curse

Track 1: of thomas edison sorry people who live in edison right and so like one sucks

Track 1: damn but but like what i think is important about that rivalry is that we later

Track 1: see thomas edison wants to essentially like destroy tesla's factory and what

Track 1: made me think about it was that he's offering power to this town for free.

Track 1: And why, how dare someone do that when we could be charging the town for power,

Track 1: or we could be doing something else to profit off of them.

Track 1: And I think that there's, it's very much part of the narrative of the.

Track 1: You know, this being an illusion for capitalism. And then also just the,

Track 1: the nature of, you know, Hugh Jackman's character being this capitalist type person.

Track 1: Well, we learned later he is more of a capitalist type person, but I don't know.

Track 1: Maybe I'm making too much of it, but I almost, I would now need to see a movie

Track 1: about like a Thomas Edison versus Nikola Tesla.

Track 1: Yeah. I mean, I'm.

Track 1: Very much paraphrasing here in my historical knowledge

Track 1: but edison was basically like

Track 1: a cruel bully i think he stole a lot of his inventions

Track 1: from his employees or other people

Track 1: and so i don't know what he was

Track 1: actually responsible for but then like in

Track 1: when i think the scene is somewhere around

Track 1: this point in the movie but christian bale's character goes

Track 1: to the tesla convention or whatever the world

Track 1: the world fair yeah and then the tesla's assistant

Track 1: is like oh well edison is is trying

Track 1: to say that you know alternating current is.

Track 1: Is so dangerous which was true like edison

Track 1: would go around he electrocuted an elephant electrocuted an

Track 1: elephant yeah because he was trying to say that tesla's

Track 1: alternating current was more dangerous than his direct

Track 1: current so yeah Edison sucks

Track 1: and then I believe Tesla

Track 1: was also working on like they they

Track 1: have Hugh Jackman's character walking around and and

Track 1: like there's the spark things and he's not getting like electrocuted I

Track 1: think Tesla was working on like wireless energy distribution

Track 1: in his lifetime which would have if you know

Track 1: we could have continued that would have been a completely different thing than

Track 1: what we have so that the colorado

Track 1: springs laboratory that is historic fact

Track 1: so yeah tesla did that

Track 1: is called the tesla experimental station it was in colorado springs and he specifically

Track 1: went there to perform experiments on wireless wireless energy transmission in

Track 1: low pressure areas because of the height it was at it was a high altitude location

Track 1: It was an high frequency experimentation.

Track 1: It possessed the largest Tesla coil of a built 49.25 feet in diameter,

Track 1: uh, which was a preliminary version of the magnifying transmission,

Track 1: uh, later planned for installation in the warden cliff tower. Um, um,

Track 1: He was not only wireless energy, but also wireless telegraphy.

Track 1: Um, he planned to conduct experiments to conduct wireless messages from Pike's peak to Paris.

Track 1: Um, he did like, he powered college things.

Track 1: He provided, like he set up the lighting, all that shit, like produce artificial lighting.

Track 1: And they at one point

Track 1: they said that like so sparks sprang

Track 1: from waterline taps when touched light bulbs within 100 feet

Track 1: of the lab glowed even when turned off um

Track 1: when he experimented yeah

Track 1: like all this stuff like yeah he the pikes

Track 1: peak the colorado station that is all historical fact

Track 1: that's why he went there to all that stuff seen with

Track 1: the light bulbs in the snow is like one of the coolest shots maybe in

Track 1: the entire film like i remember when the movie was like the tree

Track 1: watch the trailer they show that briefly and you're like what does this have

Track 1: to do with the movie but you're like oh that's i i don't care it doesn't matter

Track 1: because it's gorgeous i think actually i should have mentioned this earlier

Track 1: but the opening shot with all the hats that you see and like that's how the

Track 1: movie starts and then you're like wait what is going on here.

Track 1: Yeah it's again one of those things where they give away something very important

Track 1: but you're not And like literally Michael Caine's thing is like,

Track 1: are you paying attention?

Track 1: It's like, like, yes, but no, I'm not, you know, like, you know,

Track 1: it's, you're not, it's, it's just like how they talk about the trick is it doesn't matter what you do.

Track 1: It's how you make it look like the, the dressing it up or the,

Track 1: which I think what they also said earlier is that Christian Bale wasn't a good

Track 1: showman, but he was a better at like crafting tricks. Yeah.

Track 1: Yeah, and then, oh, go ahead. And by the way, Tesla was played by the late David

Track 1: Bowie, and according to the story I saw was that he said no to being in the movie,

Track 1: and then Chris Van Ollen flew out to London to see him.

Track 1: And it didn't beg him, but basically it's like, I really need you to be in this

Track 1: film. It can't be anyone else. And David Bowie was like, I see you're really

Track 1: passionate about this. All right, I'll do it.

Track 1: So that's why he ended up in this movie. He's a great Tesla.

Track 1: He is. Yeah. Really good. Um, Edison did steal most shit and he specifically, he specifically,

Track 1: like it is a well-documented, you know, that he specifically bullied and stole a lot of Tesla stuff.

Track 1: This Tesla died, broke in an apartment. Like I think in like,

Track 1: I think possibly the Bronx or Brooklyn. I don't remember exactly where.

Track 1: At a hotel, I think. Yeah. In a hotel. Yeah. died broke in a hotel room. And I think the...

Track 1: The most important part about Tesla's character in this and the juxtaposition

Track 1: of him to Edison, and to be fair, Edison did not burn down his Pike's Peak,

Track 1: the Colorado Springs lab.

Track 1: He was sued for unpaid bills. Yes, he would have.

Track 1: Tesla was sued for unpaid bills because Tesla was fucking poor.

Track 1: Because all of his inventions were actually still most of his inventions that

Track 1: made money were stolen by by us um but he serves the perfect juxtaposition to

Track 1: edison in that like and he makes this point throughout it that basically like,

Track 1: tesla is the creative energy he is he represents that like energy of like and they just like,

Track 1: even when he's like, when he talks about how the machine doesn't do what it's

Track 1: supposed to do. And he's like, that's the beauty of it.

Track 1: Sometimes he's like science. He's like, it just does, you know,

Track 1: does other things. He's like, that's the beauty of it.

Track 1: And whereas Edison really stands for the commodification of creativity,

Track 1: the commodification of the creative energy and the theft of creative,

Track 1: creative energy by the capitals class.

Track 1: And it's like Tesla, but Tesla and Edison are Angiers and important. Like they are.

Track 1: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah, I feel like with Edison, too,

Track 1: I like on that kind of commodity commoditization, if I'm saying it right.

Track 1: But I'm pretty sure that like he had like a bunch of engineers that worked underneath him.

Track 1: And then any of the good ideas were basically then attributed to Edison.

Track 1: Yeah, that's the way it works now.

Track 1: Yeah. And it's like, whereas Tesla was like dreaming of these impossible things

Track 1: for, and then making them happen, you know, like, and yeah.

Track 1: But for humanity, not for himself.

Track 1: Exactly. Yeah, and that's why they went after him. You know,

Track 1: I mean, it's, it's, I mean, that's why I think the analogy to the two,

Track 1: like the two magicians is so perfect is that, you know, Angier,

Track 1: Hugh Jackman doesn't want to do anything for people.

Track 1: He's doing it for his own personal profit. Whereas, you know.

Track 1: Borden just wants to entertain people and like make people wonder,

Track 1: like, how did you do that?

Track 1: And that's what people look at when they see light bulbs sitting in the snow

Track 1: and then he lifts them up.

Track 1: I think that's why Hugh Jackman is so like stunned by the things that he's creating

Track 1: is because he'd never actually seen someone who actually was like creatively

Track 1: creating something except for, you know, Borden in this case,

Track 1: because it just, it's the same thing.

Track 1: There's something else i was going to mention about it well i

Track 1: think oh well the one of the things that so the other

Track 1: half of my like serious and joking

Track 1: letterbox review was that in addition to being about like christopher nolan's

Track 1: films it's also about just the idea of you know the what's the word i'm thinking

Track 1: of at the moment i can't think of it industrialization and just like the ability

Track 1: to mass produce mass commodity mass produce commodities and or commodify all.

Track 1: I'm not saying exactly right. But Tesla, when he's creating the machine,

Track 1: to me, he's creating the ability to mass produce goods.

Track 1: And he even says to him, like, you know, I'll give you this machine.

Track 1: But like, you have to understand the cost that this is going to unleash upon the world.

Track 1: And, you know, Hugh Jackman is like, I don't give a shit.

Track 1: I want this machine. I need to be the best, which is how all,

Track 1: you know, capitalists think. It doesn't matter what the cost of the environmental

Track 1: cost, any of the human cost doesn't matter. And so that to me was sort of the.

Track 1: And I think it's also like a machine that can do incredible things that could

Track 1: actually be very useful for society.

Track 1: And then instead he only uses it to win his like rivalry.

Track 1: He could put food inside of there and feed people. Like I think about that.

Track 1: Like put a whole thing of food.

Track 1: Yeah. It's Elon Musk and going to Mars.

Track 1: I have enough money. I can go, I can make, I can make a colony on Mars.

Track 1: It's a fun space trip. It's like, motherfucker, you can solve homelessness.

Track 1: Just, just do that.

Track 1: Feed people.

Track 1: It's like, why does it? Yeah. Like, why does it have to be this big fancy thing?

Track 1: Like, yeah. Dudes like to solve the problem.

Track 1: Yeah. It's, it's always the thing. It's like, you know, it's always the question

Track 1: of, it's like, I have all this and I could do this thing that serves no purpose other than to,

Track 1: maintain the status quo and keep me where I am.

Track 1: And also further elevate my status.

Track 1: Or I could just feed everybody. Well, why would I do that? Why would I do that?

Track 1: So just, you know, I do think that because if you haven't seen the movie,

Track 1: first of all, if you haven't seen the movie, why the fuck are you listening to this?

Track 1: We didn't give away the big twist. But yeah, but we kind of need to right now.

Track 1: We kind of need to. That's my point.

Track 1: That's where I'm going. Okay. So, if you haven't watched the movie,

Track 1: unless you want to have it all spelled right now, I can duck out and go watch the movie.

Track 1: So, he goes to Tesla because he's convinced it's not a double.

Track 1: And Tesla's machine, he convinces Tesla to make him a teleportation machine.

Track 1: But in fact, he's not making a teleportation machine. What the machine actually

Track 1: does is perfectly recreate whatever is put into it.

Track 1: It makes a perfect duplicate including

Track 1: living breathing conscious sage sentient sapient

Track 1: life forms much and then two further why yes it's just a double borden is just

Track 1: using a double it's just his twin brother that's all it is it's just his brother

Track 1: that's it that's the whole thing yeah we well i mean.

Track 1: I think it's so interesting because like we get the clues like he's using a

Track 1: double like the clues with the magician the wife who talks about him being you

Track 1: know you love me today you don't know tomorrow you may not.

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson's character too like she seems to be in love with the other one guy.

Track 1: And also like Christian Bale I mean you can tell like they're two.

Track 1: Twins they're playing they're basically living the same life

Track 1: and that's really the the big part of

Track 1: it is not just that they're twins but that they are twins living

Track 1: one life there is no they live the act they

Track 1: live the act the weird thing that they also say that i didn't i noticed it this

Track 1: time this is i actually watched this like maybe a year and a half ago for the

Track 1: first time and this is the second time since the theater they also doesn't scarlett

Track 1: johansson and them call them Alfred and Freddy like don't they refer to them as different names.

Track 1: She calls him she calls him Freddy but then the wife calls him Alfred right,

Track 1: yeah I think that was more like a familiarity thing because okay like she the

Track 1: wife was mad because Scarlett Johansson was calling him Freddy like very familiarly

Track 1: and she was like they're having an affair okay they were but brother were but

Track 1: weren't But at the same time,

Track 1: like there's no excusing, like there's no excusing either of these, either of the men,

Track 1: like they're both committing emotional and physical, like adultery.

Track 1: Like at one point you kind of want to be like, oh, but you know,

Track 1: but it's like, he's still participating in the mind fucking of this woman.

Track 1: Well, that's the thing that drives me insane because, like, so you realize that

Track 1: it's the two of them, the twins living one life.

Track 1: And, you know, as the movie progresses, I think her name's Sarah, the wife.

Track 1: Yes. But she, like, gets more and more depressed and starts drinking because

Track 1: she can't deal with, like, her husband seeming to be two different people.

Track 1: And like they talk about you know that they talk about at the end and it's like

Track 1: oh well you know sometimes I was with Sarah and sometimes I was with the other

Track 1: person and all this stuff and it's like,

Track 1: Okay, well, one easy fix for this is, like, just have the one that loves Sarah

Track 1: be the one that hangs out with Sarah.

Track 1: Like, why do you even have the other twin do it? Yeah.

Track 1: Like, and this is what I mean. Because you've got to live the act. Yeah.

Track 1: But I feel like this makes me really hate Christian Bale. Oh, 100%. Her characters.

Track 1: Absolutely. They like as much as Q Jackman's character is so annoying because

Track 1: it's like you are this rich man obsessed with winning something that like I

Track 1: think is basically like Christian Bale was willing to go the mile to live that act for so long.

Track 1: And Q Jackman couldn't wrap his mind around it. I think he just couldn't like

Track 1: like understand why anyone would actually go to those lengths sort of like,

Track 1: you know, like an actual artist would would go to these lengths to make art.

Track 1: But then Christian Bale's character is also just so obsessed within their own

Track 1: weird little dynamic of like we both get to like he he we both get to play like

Track 1: the guy that you are literally having all of your deteriorate relationships

Track 1: deteriorate around you and like actively hurting people.

Track 1: And it's like, you could have done this so much better.

Track 1: But I do think that that still comes back to a class analysis in which like

Track 1: Christian Bell looked at the privation and horrors of the world around him that

Track 1: he had the misfortune of,

Track 1: you know, like, or not even the misfortune, but just like random chance being

Track 1: born into and saw a way to succeed.

Track 1: Saw a way to provide for himself and his family and then took that.

Track 1: And then what, what happens? It's like, you are, you know, when you participate

Track 1: in the system, you are alienated from yourself. Like we are literally watching.

Track 1: This is like the physical like manifestation of alienation in that,

Track 1: like this is one person split into two

Track 1: people who are like constantly like they can't

Track 1: even relate to each other they can't relate to the the people

Track 1: they love and the people they that they live with their family their wife their

Track 1: daughter or niece or you know later on um i cannot remember scarl johansson's

Track 1: character's name her like can't live it fully olivia can't fully connect with olivia Why?

Track 1: Because your life is forced to becoming, like your entire self is fractured

Track 1: by being forced to participate in a system that does not allow you to be a whole person.

Track 1: You are broken.

Track 1: Capitalism breaks people.

Track 1: Yeah. I like that a lot. But I also feel like- But also, yeah,

Track 1: he's also a terrible person.

Track 1: Yeah, no. He's still a terrible person. No. I'm not, I'm not excusing him.

Track 1: I am providing a material analysis to why that happened.

Track 1: He's still a terrible person. Like, there is like, and at one point,

Track 1: like you, like Fallon, like.

Track 1: Fallon is presented as the innocent in so many ways because he's almost kept

Track 1: separate until the very end.

Track 1: He's, you know, until the very end, Fallon is kept separate even after you know

Track 1: that they're the same person.

Track 1: He still is like kept at arm's length and it's like the, he's like the sullied innocence.

Track 1: But at the end you're still like you can't help

Track 1: like he's still fucking he he still

Track 1: did all that like it's like fuck man

Track 1: like this fucked up but what's so crazy is

Track 1: that at some point earlier scarlett johansson's like you know

Track 1: tells hugh jackman like he has a bunch of you know costume stuff

Track 1: around but they that like he's and he's like they're the

Track 1: same person and he's like uh no way you know he just

Track 1: left it out for you to find you know and yeah like and

Track 1: that's the thing too is that it's ben i feel like

Track 1: it's like like and jeer is just

Track 1: like he can't wrap his head around the fact that somebody

Track 1: would go to these lengths because he has never

Track 1: had to do that in his entire life he's never he

Track 1: doesn't even know anyone in his social circle that's had to do

Track 1: that it's like you've just always had been provided for

Track 1: you always have means and resources and you

Track 1: art force to get your hands dirty which is

Track 1: in and of itself a way in which capitalism

Track 1: robs the capitalist class of the human experience like i hate to like give capitalists

Track 1: any fucking credit okay but they are not whole people either they have been robbed of um.

Track 1: Vital aspects of humanity like the

Track 1: striving and the passion and

Track 1: you look at a thing and you're like you know

Track 1: i i need to do this you

Track 1: know like i i need to pour my soul into this thing you know

Track 1: like as a writer and like a

Track 1: person that has like spent my almost my entire life like in creative endeavors

Track 1: like watching people try to justify use ai and like motherfucking you you don't

Track 1: get it do you like you don't understand and it's the same thing with it's like

Track 1: Christian Bale is doing it for

Track 1: the love of the game like he's doing it for the love of the game like he

Track 1: loves this shit he loves it I think that makes,

Track 1: It makes Hugh Jackman or him so jealous because he doesn't seemingly love anything

Track 1: as much as Christian Bale could love this.

Track 1: And I think we're talking about he wants to be the best, but I think if anything,

Track 1: it's like jealousy above all else is what he has.

Track 1: Despite the fact that we learn later that he's actually Lord Caldwell,

Track 1: who's the one who's sending the solicitor to Christian Bale in prison,

Track 1: is going to adopt his daughter and give her a good life.

Track 1: He's like a billion, I don't know how many, he's an enormous- He's a thousander.

Track 1: A thousander, yeah, whatever. He's got lots of money.

Track 1: But there is, what's great about this movie is once you find sort of the twist,

Track 1: there's still like maybe 30 minutes left in the movie.

Track 1: Shut up. Like, what's going to happen now? And then it just becomes to the point

Track 1: where the ending is great. I mean, we can talk about the ending, too.

Track 1: What's that? Truly macabre. Yeah. Yes.

Track 1: That was the ending. It was the thing that I absolutely remembered, and it stuck in my brain.

Track 1: Yeah, it's chilling. The blind stagehands?

Track 1: Yeah, so for anyone, again, we've already spoiled the- So creepy. Whoa.

Track 1: We've already spoiled the big twist, but it gets

Track 1: even further where you learn that every time that

Track 1: christian bale is doing the disappearing man

Track 1: and so he he buys out the theater for like

Track 1: 100 performances and then he's going to retire he's going to

Track 1: be huge sorry i keep doing huge jackman i should just go by their name the state

Track 1: name but robert angier is going to do the his trick for a you know for 100 days

Track 1: and he's going to retire because now he's the best he can walk away saying he's

Track 1: the greatest magician he's doing this trick and we learn that each time he's duplicating himself,

Track 1: he's dropping the duplicate into a,

Track 1: a tank of water it's locked up

Track 1: they let him drown and then as you said these blind men

Track 1: move the tank at the end of the night to some facility where

Track 1: they just like essentially have a long hallway filled with

Track 1: you know dead bodies inside of tanks which

Track 1: also very strange like the company who makes these tanks is clearly able to

Track 1: make this many tanks i don't know that too i was like okay i know he's got a

Track 1: lot of money but like how how do you get all these tanks like who's like why

Track 1: not just get rid of the body and like put the tank back and reuse it because

Track 1: then he would have to face it.

Track 1: Okay you're right he doesn't he doesn't look at it you're right

Track 1: because that's why he's a lineman and he calls he says in

Track 1: the end when you know christian bell says like you finally got your hands dirty

Track 1: and hugh jackman says like he did but he doesn't he doesn't he's not getting

Track 1: his hands dirty and he's still not making any actual sacrifices yeah like because in the end he's just...

Track 1: In his like mind he's just

Track 1: throwing away duplicate like

Track 1: and he and he never confronts it he just hides it

Track 1: away and i think it's really interesting because at one point

Track 1: he's saying jackman is saying like um

Track 1: i never know if i'm gonna wake up in the tank or

Track 1: you know at the prestige but i

Track 1: was like you always wake up

Track 1: in the prestige because otherwise you'd be in the tank like

Track 1: some part of you is experience or i don't

Track 1: know how it would work you know if you're what one conscious

Track 1: mind that remembers everything you did or just a

Track 1: yeah they don't ever copy which i think

Track 1: is sort of an interesting philosophical discussion but it

Track 1: really like it's always you who ends

Track 1: up in the prestige because you're standing here right now if it

Track 1: wasn't then you would be dead and so that's yeah like

Track 1: i think it's there's almost like he's like

Track 1: yeah there's so much danger i'm i'm doing so

Track 1: much but he's not and and even more

Track 1: so like he's not even dealing with the bodies he's just hiding them in this

Track 1: abandoned theater that i guess he now owns or something yeah and he he makes

Track 1: that choice to do that because early on michael kane's character says i met

Track 1: a man who once almost drowned.

Track 1: What was it like he said it was like coming home

Track 1: and then at the end he goes remember that

Track 1: tory i told you he actually said it was the most agonizing experience

Track 1: of his life so he has

Track 1: managed to completely ignore and just you know hand wave away and almost like

Track 1: like you know what it's the drowning actually it feels fucking great like you

Track 1: know i'm doing them a favor.

Track 1: And part of the thing that maybe is worth mentioning, when he's doing the trick

Track 1: with the body, like the double of him, the thing that he's so mad about in that

Track 1: trick and why he won't pay them is because he's under the stage and he doesn't get the applause.

Track 1: He doesn't get the adulation of all the people adoring his trick.

Track 1: It's the double who does it. And with this trick, he gets to be up on the stage

Track 1: or on the balcony where, you know, they see him reappear.

Track 1: And like he actually gets it he doesn't care about all the

Track 1: the dead himself swimming in little tanks

Track 1: because he gets the cheers and like that's all that

Track 1: he cares about and it's just it reminds me of like a certain you

Track 1: know owner of twitter who just just desperately wants

Track 1: people to like him and i think that's also at the heart of this he just

Track 1: desperately wants attention yeah well i think

Track 1: isn't one of the last lines like you

Track 1: know if you can fool them even for a second like it's

Track 1: like yeah and i thought that was

Track 1: interesting because it just speaks to yeah exactly like he

Track 1: just wants the attention he wants the adulation he wants like the the ability

Track 1: to fool people and it's just something so egotistical and and like sinister

Track 1: about that where it's like oh it's just all for this for.

Track 1: To get this adulations from everyone else. And it's, there's no like intrinsic motivation.

Track 1: It's all just like, how will the outside recognize me?

Track 1: I do appreciate though, that separately, that Michael Caine sort of realizes,

Track 1: you know, cause he's a smart guy.

Track 1: He realizes what he's, what he's done and helps Christian Bale essentially,

Track 1: you know, kill him at the end, you know, and it's, you know, it's, it's weird.

Track 1: He gets his, you know come up in sujag when he dies at

Track 1: the end christian bale one version

Track 1: of him lives you know the the the i guess

Track 1: they're both magicians but the the nice one lives yes

Track 1: the nice one i guess lives and you know but he also loses half of himself and

Track 1: he's also lost his wife they both lost their wives so nothing he may win by

Track 1: having his daughter but like does he really win you know at the end? No. No.

Track 1: Also, he's still a bad person. Yeah. He's still a bad person.

Track 1: That was one thing because when they're dragging off the twin to execute him,

Track 1: because the Christian Bale bad twin gets executed,

Track 1: as he's being pulled away, he's like, sorry about Sarah.

Track 1: And that was one thing, too, where I was like, if you're the what I'll call the good twin,

Track 1: like I would be absolutely furious that like my twin compatriot like basically

Track 1: like drove my wife to kill herself.

Track 1: But then again, it goes backwards. But they both did, right?

Track 1: Yeah, they both did. He is complicit in that action.

Track 1: Exactly. like it's like again like there could

Track 1: have you could have dealt even with this whole situation of

Track 1: living as one life you could have been able to like at least

Track 1: try I mean you could just torture your wife but he also drives away

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson like each drive away like their own

Track 1: love right interest so but you're

Track 1: even in some way what I think is how's it

Track 1: going I think like the thank you I think the thing with

Track 1: Scarlett Johansson is interesting because he's based because

Track 1: like it's the the bad twin trying

Track 1: to live his life because he goes you know it's like

Track 1: a week or a few days after sarah dies the

Track 1: wife and they're hanging out and he doesn't care because

Track 1: he never loved her and he's almost trying to express that

Track 1: and like have you almost have more of his individuality and then scarlett johansson

Track 1: rejects him for it because she's like no you have you're completely unfeeling

Track 1: you know the fact that you don't care about this and so i thought that was kind

Track 1: of interesting just in the way that it was like, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Track 1: Like, you know, you can't pretend that you, this wasn't part of your life when

Track 1: you're living this life as one person. Yeah.

Track 1: But I think, I think the most important part of the final scene with Alfred Borden and Fallon.

Track 1: Is the fact that Alfred Borden clearly did love the daughter and was distraught

Track 1: over what would happen to her.

Track 1: And I think that that is the key. And that is really the thing that shows how,

Track 1: like, what is robbed from people in this, in the system.

Track 1: Like, that's the, that's the part.

Track 1: That's the key. They both, they both deeply love that little girl.

Track 1: And they wanted her to be happy and cared for.

Track 1: And they very much cared about her.

Track 1: And I really feel like that that is the key to the whole thing.

Track 1: That's like, makes it clear like what this does to people because they,

Track 1: they both, you know, at its heart.

Track 1: We should all be able to, we should be able to have that love and care for everybody in our life.

Track 1: And yet that has been taken away and it's been shattered and they've been unable

Track 1: to fully do that for like, for other people.

Track 1: And it's like, but in that you see that glimpse of it.

Track 1: That's, that's been taken away from them. yeah and what's

Track 1: what's also at the interesting about that

Track 1: last scene too is when he when he

Track 1: finally realizes that the the lord is hugh

Track 1: jackman and he hands him the actually how

Track 1: he did the trick with like the twin brother he doesn't even look he just rips

Track 1: up the paper and throw it like sprinkles it through the you know the prison

Track 1: and like he doesn't care anymore about his trick because he has his daughter

Track 1: he has his fame he has he has everything at this point he has what he thinks

Track 1: is the guy behind bars and he'll, you know,

Track 1: die for his, for his death and thinks he's going to get away.

Track 1: And then, you know, when you see him, then follow him afterwards,

Track 1: you know, into the theater and, you know, does that final scene.

Track 1: It's just, you can't still, but help, but feel glad that Hugh Jackman just gets

Track 1: shot and burned to death.

Track 1: Yeah. Yeah. Though also just one like question I had on this was like he seemed

Track 1: like he was basically willing to...

Track 1: Bale was willing to give up his greatest treasure, which is the secret that

Track 1: he has been literally living this one life as two people.

Track 1: And he was willing to give it up for his daughter, which I think speaks to that

Track 1: idea of like the thing that you most treasure, that's most important to you or most valuable to you.

Track 1: And then having to give it up because you can't find any other way to like have

Track 1: the means and ability to care for your family or the people you really care

Track 1: about and at the same time i was like,

Track 1: why there's another one out there like why is he so worried like couldn't the

Track 1: other guy do it i mean i don't know it sounded like they were like they were

Track 1: victorian laws because they talked about I think the poor ass. Yeah.

Track 1: But, uh, well, they said like, I'm blanking on the work house.

Track 1: Sorry, not the boss, the work house, but like the trick master guy that I'm doing.

Track 1: Yes. Michael Caine. Yes. Thank you.

Track 1: So Michael Caine, they, I think they were saying like he was too old,

Track 1: so they wouldn't let her go with him or something like that.

Track 1: Or maybe they were saying that about Fallon, but like, that was also a little bit confusing for me.

Track 1: Cause I was like, you literally have a twin like why can't he just take her

Track 1: and like go move I think he like basically doesn't exist.

Track 1: Which they previously like earlier on when like he's like Angier's talking about

Track 1: it's basically like Fallon doesn't exist like he doesn't exist on paper which to be fair honestly,

Track 1: in 1890 like no one did like there were people who literally there were people

Track 1: in like who literally made to living, murdering people in towns,

Track 1: collecting life insurance, then moving to the next town and doing it again.

Track 1: So, you know, I'm sure they could have like, I'm sure they could have done something. I mean.

Track 1: Records were not they were not top notch back then unless you were like a lord

Track 1: like you know the other guy of course then your entire life is based on your

Track 1: birth you know record everybody else they didn't really give a fuck yeah.

Track 1: Oh man did Alexa or Bill either have any last thoughts on the film or anything

Track 1: we know we didn't cover yeah,

Track 1: I basically one thing that I just really liked about the film,

Track 1: and this doesn't really have to do anything with leftist politics,

Track 1: but I did really like so when they go to Tesla and then he makes the machine

Track 1: and I think Hugh Jackman and Michael Caine's characters are like, he can do real magic.

Track 1: Like this idea of like

Track 1: real like he that technology is the

Track 1: real magic i would i just got really excited when

Track 1: i saw that part because um i

Track 1: don't know for me i think that is kind of what magic is

Track 1: like obviously not necessarily illusion magic and

Track 1: things like that but like i feel like

Track 1: magic is the thing is the science we haven't discovered yet

Track 1: and the explanation that we haven't discovered yet and actually

Track 1: so i'm buddhist my i'm born and raised buddhist i

Track 1: practice every day and they say enlightenment

Track 1: is understanding the true nature of all phenomena and so i kind of feel like

Track 1: magic is basically like our understanding through enlightenment and it's kind

Track 1: of that in-between space um and i just i don't know i just thought it was interesting

Track 1: and cool because i do feel like.

Track 1: Um there is magic in the world and

Track 1: beauty and splendor and all these cool things and

Track 1: it's also just really interesting to try to like learn about it and understand

Track 1: it and figure it out and then maybe interpret it in a way where you could have

Track 1: wireless electricity and machines that make doubles and all that i think that's

Track 1: such an interesting like such an interesting like,

Track 1: take on that like it's such an interesting interpretation especially because

Track 1: like when i think of it like tesla to me like.

Track 1: Tesla himself is like what to me is like, they're like, Oh, he does real magic.

Track 1: And it's like, but to me, it's like what it really is like for like Tesla.

Track 1: It's like Tesla is magic because he sees the beauty of possibility.

Track 1: Like it's about Tesla as a person being, seeing that potential,

Track 1: seeing that beauty and want, and like wanting it out of like.

Track 1: But in a pure, innocent like sense

Track 1: not in a self-serving sense and

Track 1: like for purely for the sake of like discovery like

Track 1: very much like in like star trek as a

Track 1: star trek fan when there is an episode a

Track 1: very famous episode when they like rescue and it's

Track 1: also they do it they do one of the movies too where they basically get like

Track 1: something like from like old time they've been like suspended whatever

Track 1: and it's like well why do you do you don't need money why do

Track 1: you do it it's like be for for the better of of ourselves and like

Track 1: that's what tesla like this is like i do this because

Track 1: this is beautiful and i want to you know like that's the

Track 1: magic and yeah it's yeah i think

Track 1: it's awesome absolutely i mean i think it goes to

Track 1: like tesla being the real artist right like it has like the vision and wants

Track 1: to create this beauty and create these magical things and also like is is not

Track 1: swept up in the capitalist idea of commoditizing and commercializing and how

Track 1: am I going to make money at this it's just about,

Track 1: like the love of the game you know he wanted to create world peace like that

Track 1: was like his goal he wanted to create,

Track 1: through technology he wanted to create world peace.

Track 1: One day tesla speaking though even like um with you know like tech bros kind of.

Track 1: Just co-opting things or stealing things i

Track 1: mean that's like what elon musk did with

Track 1: tesla 100 is so cool

Track 1: and then now it's like this terrible company yeah

Track 1: yeah you talk about tesla the

Track 1: man you're like wait do you mean that shitty car like no

Track 1: you just keep the tesla just keeps getting fucked by tech

Track 1: bros like literally the guy had

Track 1: to die poor in a hotel in you know new york city and

Track 1: now they're just we're just you know we're just laughing at

Track 1: his grave when we should be celebrating him so bad

Track 1: it's so bad yeah well

Track 1: i don't i don't i don't have any more poetic ending for that but i can i can

Track 1: leave it there but alexa thank you so much for coming on everyone should check

Track 1: out your page as well so that they can learn things to buy that are not owned

Track 1: by evil tech bros would be a good start.

Track 1: Put all the contacts for that, of course, in the show notes.

Track 1: So if you check out the show notes, all the ways to check out Alex's work will

Track 1: be in the show notes for you to follow through.

Track 1: And I'll just give a little shout out because by the time this airs,

Track 1: I will have formally launched my website, which is just cutoffthespigot.com.

Track 1: And you can go there and you know if you go to the articles page you can search

Track 1: for whatever you're trying to find and it makes everything a lot easier than

Track 1: digging through a bunch of Instagram videos so.

Track 1: Excellent awesome well Alexa thank you so much for being on and for everyone

Track 1: listening to Left of the Objector you can also go to our website leftoftheobjector.com

Track 1: and listen to any number of episodes on many different films and we will catch

Track 1: you next time Have a good night, everybody.