Dr. John Demartini: Now you can actually love that individual because you're not

putting them above you or below you.

They're not on pedestals or pits, they're in your heart.

And that love, is profoundly impactful and helps transform

relationships, transform business.

Hello everyone.

Welcome to the Seek Go Create podcast.

This is where we challenge the conventional definitions of

success and explore stories of in leadership, business, and in ministry.

And we are going to challenge those conventional definitions today.

I can guarantee you, I am excited and I have the honor of interviewing Dr.

John Demartini and he has got such an extensive bio.

He's a human behavior expert, a polymath, and an internationally published author.

There's a lot more to what he has, but he has so many things that we're

going to enjoy discussing related to this topic of redefining success.

Dr.

John Demartini, welcome to Seek Go Create.

Dr. John Demartini: thank you for having me.

I've been looking forward to it.

that was a super short bio that I just gave there and

I know there's a lot more to it.

The reason is almost got overwhelmed when I was reading through your bio.

I didn't want to spend half the show with it, but let's pretend we just bump into

each other, and someone asked you what you do, how do you typically respond?

Someone who's got such a wide, diverse background is you do.

Dr. John Demartini: I'm an educator and a researcher and

I teach and I travel the world.

That's it.

I research, write, travel, teach, educate in the field of human behavior and helping

people achieve whatever it is inside their life that they want to create.

That's very good.

And I want to, this is a unique thing.

The audience typically knows that I'm a nomad traveler coming to them from

my, quote unquote, studio in the RV.

You are also in a different way.

Tell us a little bit about that.

Dr. John Demartini: my primary residence is a ship.

So I live on a private, a large private ship, let's put it that way.

And, sail around the world,

Interesting.

Dr. John Demartini: over the world.

so you're traveling and all that.

All right.

I've got to ask a, just a travel question.

cool spots.

Some of the places, again, name a place or two that you,

it really nourishes your soul.

Are you just like, boy, this is a spot that I wish not everyone

knew about it, but everyone needs to know about this spot.

Dr. John Demartini: I've been to a lot of spots.

I've been to 194 countries.

I, I, I love, and I'm going back to Antarctica in, Christmas time.

And so that's an exceptional space.

If you've never been to Antarctica and you want to go out on a Zodiac.

and go and interact with the life that's there, that's an experience

of a lifetime, I really believe.

that was the place where I did a live performance black tie affair

to about five million penguins.

And is that, can we find that recording somewhere?

Is that somewhere available?

Dr. John Demartini: I wish I did.

I got a picture.

That's about it.

I don't have a recording of it.

It was a bit windy and, the cackling from all the penguins is pretty

loud, but I made a commitment to go and speak to people on that,

that, that part of the world.

I got to speak also to a group there, but I just wanted to, for fun, I just

went out and got them in the background and I was doing a presentation for fun.

Yeah, the penguins.

that could have been one of the best or most interesting

audience, I guess you had.

there's so many, and we could spend time on the travel, but what I want

us to dive into is you have such a vast and diverse, I guess experience.

and I think the first thing I want to do is I want to start with

something that I don't see very often.

And that is someone who uses the term polymath.

to describe themselves.

Maybe I don't run in those circles.

Maybe I sometimes use the term, and I know this isn't exactly correct,

but generalist, someone who has wide ranging, vast knowledge on a lot of

different topics, as opposed to our world seems to revolve a lot around what

I call specialists, people that target things and go deep into one thing.

Talk a little bit about You calling yourself a polymath,

how did that come to be?

and why is that important to the conversation that we're having here?

Dr. John Demartini: When I was a young boy, I had, learning challenges.

I started going to a speech pathologist when I was a year and a half.

I was not pronouncing words properly.

I had dyslexia.

And by the time I got into first grade, I was told by my teacher,

I would never be able to read or write or communicate effectively.

So I ended up leaving school, became a street kid picked up surfing, which

is not the surf capital of Texas.

So I, hitchhiked when I was 14 out to California, down to Mexico and 15, I moved

to Hawaii and I was a big wave rider.

And, I nearly died and met a gentleman one night at a class.

In the recovery process that inspired me to believe that I had learning

challenges and someday be able to read and write and communicate effectively.

That one night, I was such an inspiring moment.

I had a vision.

In fact, I have a picture of this because somebody painted it of me standing in

front of a million people speaking.

Which is the complete epitome opposite of what I was being like, cause I

didn't even read a book to them.

And then I decided that I was going to somehow overcome my learning problems.

with the help of my mom, cause I tried to go back to school and I failed

again, with the help of my mom, I went to a dictionary and I started

reading a dictionary and memorizing 30 words a day to grow my vocabulary.

And my mom would test me on those 30 words.

And I grew my vocabulary in two years, 20, 000 words, which is more

than the majority of people have.

And then I, once I learned how to get the words and pronounce them and

practice, I was able to start to read.

And it was the most inspiring thing in the world to be able to read and take

a person's life and summarize it in a book and then stand on their shoulders.

So I ended up starting to read voluminously, like 20 hours a day.

Because I didn't know I could, I was told I would never.

And when I found out I could, it was like an amazing gift.

I also, at the time I wanted to become a teacher.

And I want to be intelligent because I never think I was going to be.

And I want to amass a body of knowledge that was most concise background.

I wanted to study every discipline known, so I would have a body of

knowledge that I could rely on.

So I went to the dictionary and I literally got a list of every known

different discipline and ology you could study, chemistry and

mathematics, physics, you name it, astronomy, cosmology, astrophysics.

And I made a list of it.

And I.

I realized that a PhD would read about a hundred books in

each of these fields, at least.

And so I made a commitment to read a hundred books in every different

discipline, which has turned out to be now 31, 000 books, over 300 disciplines,

because I wanted to understand.

What was the common laws, the common principles that would stand the

test of time in each of those areas?

Cause there is, there are principles that you stand across.

They may have different terminology and different fields, but it's the same basic

principle, like the law of the one, the many, the law of similars and differences.

And so I want to build a body of knowledge that I could share with people that I

could rely on that had substance to be able to make a contribution, as a teacher.

And.

That's how it started.

And I still to this day, read every single day, seven days a week I'm

reading and I'm writing and I'm speaking seven days a week pretty well.

so that was my dream to travel the world.

Go to every country in the face of the earth, share information that I felt

could be a value in maximizing human awareness potential and help people

live extraordinary and inspired lives.

That was my dream because I felt the night I met the gentleman that

inspired me that what he did for me, I'd like to do for others.

So that's been my mission.

I've been on a mission 51 years now.

November will be 51 years and I do it every day and I can't think of

anything else I'd rather be doing.

So that's why I'm a teacher, researcher, writer and traveler.

I'm so glad I asked the question that way, because I think

it gave you, it, first of all, it gave me a lot of clues into some

directions I would like for us to go.

And one of the, we've got a number of themes here at Seek Go Create,

and one of these is just this.

This aspect of redefining what success means and the question that came to

me as you were just talking I want to ask this because i'm intrigued by it.

It sounds as if you were Forced out of the traditional education system At some

point and is that the right word forced would that be a okay way of saying it,

Dr. John Demartini: Yeah.

The teacher, yeah, I ended up dropping out and leaving school.

And, I'm grateful for that because I wish I could meet the teacher that

told me I would never read, write or communicate, but she was up in age when I

was in first grade, never saw her again.

So I would thank her because she actually created the void that became the values.

And, yeah, I was, I didn't have to, I didn't get entrenched in the drone

training that many people get entrenched in and become part of the sheep.

I, When I was living on the streets, I got to meet some

amazing people that were different.

And I'm very grateful for those experiences.

I even met Howard Hughes when I was 14 years old.

So these are the type of, I met all kinds of characters, Timothy Leary.

And a lot of rock and roll leaders, band leaders.

I met some interesting characters living on the street.

So it was a different beat, it wasn't the mainstream thinking process.

And I'm grateful that I have that because I think that opened up a doorway to

ask new sets of questions that most people never take the time to ask.

And the thing I guess that fascinates me about that is

that both my parents were educators.

So I'm not anti our education system that we have in first

world or the United States.

However, it seems as if there's a path that people go down that

stay within that education system.

And it's usually towards specialization, it's usually toward a certain

definition of what success looks like, which is one of the things we

attempt to bust up a little bit here.

And it sounds as if.

You were moved out of it and it led you down this fascinating path.

Give me the ages again.

When did you leave the school system or when were you, when did

you decide to leave or whatever?

And then when did you meet this gentleman that had such a big impact on your future?

Dr. John Demartini: When I was 13, I, left home.

I became a street kid.

At 14, I, I hitchhiked.

from Houston, Texas, from Freeport, Houston, because I was at the

beach all the time, to California.

And I lived in Huntington beach up and down the Southern California area.

And then down into Mexico, I snuck into Mexico illegally.

They didn't have a wall yet and, got in and out of there without

ever getting any paperwork, but I just wanted to go surfing.

And, it was, this is in the sixties.

So this was along here at hippie surfer type days.

And I panhandled enough money in Huntington beach

to get a flight to Hawaii.

It was 86 bucks in those days.

And then I was over there and I lived under a bridge and then

in a park bench and then a park bathroom and an abandoned car.

And then I finally kept social climbing and got into a tent.

And, so I was, that was all the way until 17 and right almost to 18.

And I met this teacher, right a week before my 18th birthday.

And in one night, one hour, one man just absolutely blew the socks off

me and made me think differently.

he said that we, what we think about, what we visualize, what we

affirm, what we feel and what we take actions on, determine our destiny.

And that, you want to set goals for yourself, your family, your

community, your city, your state, your nation, your world and beyond

for 100, 120 years and start living by design instead of living by duty.

most people are deontologic and living by duty and doing what everybody

else thinks they should be doing and living by imperatives instead

of living by indicatives and going after what they really dream about and

organizing and prioritizing your life.

That was a major breakthrough for me.

I, nobody told me that.

I just, and I decided that I was going to figure out a way of, learning how to read.

I used to have people read to me.

So the thing that's interesting, cause, and this is so

appropriate because human motivation is one of the foundations that I

read as I did some study on you, were you desiring and craving to get

out of the situation you were in?

were you someone who just, was it total happenstance

that you bumped into this guy?

Was there a divine guidance that was going on, some spiritual thing?

I'm.

I'm sure you put thought into it because it's actually been

catalytic for your entire career.

Dr. John Demartini: I was expanding my consciousness through all kinds of

ah, so now we have some clues.

You said it was the sixties, right?

Dr. John Demartini: Yeah.

I, I was doing the magic mushrooms and I was doing the love service and

dedication and I was doing all the things that would add color to life.

And I nearly died.

I ended up having, let's put it this way.

I really died.

I was surfing a very big wave and I nearly died.

And, I ended up passing out in a parking lot, passed out in a parking lot.

and was next thing I knew, three years, three and a half days

later, I found myself in my tent.

So somehow I remember how I got there, but somebody put me

in my, they knew where I was.

And then, a lady found me in the tent and helped me clean up the tent.

Cause it was, I had a catharsis without knowing it while I was unconscious.

And, She helped clean it up and took me to a health food store where I

met this Afro guy that looked like Jimi Hendrix, this albino Afro guy.

And he looked at me and he saw me with these spasms because I had a lot of

spasms from material that I'd taken.

And, he said, you need to take a yoga class, man, and learn

how to have mind over body.

So I saw on this little Vigor health food store in Haleiwa,

Hawaii on the North shore.

I saw this little flyer and said, Paul C.

Bragg, special guest speaker at so and so yoga class.

And I knew the word yoga.

I could see word yoga.

And I knew that word.

And, something said go there.

So I went to a yoga class, and I wasn't taking yoga, I was not into

meditation or anything like that at that time, but that night, when he

spoke, was inspiring, and he took us through this guided imagery meditation

experience where I saw a vision.

And, that vision is still with me.

I, if you would like, I can show it to you.

Yeah.

It'd be fascinating during that.

Yeah.

For those that are watching video, there might be some people listening

to audio, but we do have this on video, so that'll be fascinating.

so you did go through some, was it, did you have a near death experience or

was it a, you almost died experience?

It's hard to say.

Dr. John Demartini: I don't know if I would have died.

I didn't go into a death.

I don't know.

I was just unconscious.

I have no idea.

I was in a tent by myself, unconscious for three and a half days.

Somebody found me cause I heard me came out of, I made noise.

Apparently she found me, this lady in the jungle.

The reason why,

Dr. John Demartini: I can find this.

you know, while you're looking for that, the

reason I bring that up is that, my father passed away last December.

My wife's mother is, her health is not great.

And my wife recently has gotten on a kick of reading a lot of

books on near death experience.

She's really been studying.

It's something we discussed quite a bit.

and from us as followers of Christ and Christians, we

were always fascinated with.

The what afterlife and eternity and things like that.

And so that's why I was curious if, but it sounds like

Dr. John Demartini: I didn't have, I didn't have this

mystical spiritual experience.

I

no walk into the light, but you were close

Dr. John Demartini: I didn't see, no,

to

Dr. John Demartini: I was surfing.

A very big wave is about 40 foot.

And I went over the falls and my board was smashed and I was.

I didn't think I was going to make it.

I found up, up onto the beach.

I came into, I hitchhiked into Haleiwa, went into an IGA supermarket and had this

unbelievable strange thing for buttermilk.

I never drank buttermilk in my life, but I went and just grabbed it and started

guzzling it right out of the thing.

And then I started getting dizzy and I passed out in the

front of the IGA supermarket there on the Kamehameha highway.

somebody's going to think that buttermilk is

the secret to all of this.

They're going to go, Oh my gosh, it's buttermilk.

I just want to make sure that people know, I don't, we don't think it's

Dr. John Demartini: this is the vision.

This is the vision I saw that night.

Fascinating.

So you're up on a podium, looks like in some form of an international setting with

Dr. John Demartini: it's called, it's a painting by Andrew Tisker.

What happened was, I was speaking in Melbourne, Australia, about

maybe 1, 600 people, 1, 500 people, something like that.

And, I was telling a story about the journey.

They asked me about it, and I told them the story about

how I got into being speaking.

And in the back of the room was this artist, and he came forward

and he says, I was inspired and brought to tears by your story.

And I said, thank you.

And he said, I would like to paint it.

I'd like to paint what you said.

And he, as a gift, painted that.

And the name of the painting is a man on a mission with a vision and a message.

And it's got an iconic building from every major city around

the world in the background.

And it's about sharing a message to the world.

And he took a picture of me the way I looked at the time he did it.

It was not when I was 17, but he put that picture in front of it.

But I said that I envisioned myself on this balcony speaking

to people as far as I could see.

And it was probably some delusion at the time, but that's what I saw.

So I shared what I saw and he painted it and it sits in my office.

It's a five foot by four foot painting.

It's a magnificent painting that he sent and sent as a gift to my office.

He's a famous painter in Australia.

Wow.

Fascinating.

And I love when we get glimpses from visions and things like that, but

how, give me some timeframes here.

So you had that situation, you had that vision, and then you.

You began reading.

It sounds like you began consuming and gathering information.

At what point did you begin seeing that manifest?

Like you were in front of other people doing some things.

I'm sure you weren't in front of thousands immediately, but.

Progression.

Dr. John Demartini: When I was 18 years old, I was studying in a library

at this Wharton Junior College.

That's the only place I could get started back to school.

I couldn't go to a university.

I had to take a GED, high school equivalency test, to get in.

And I failed my first class in school and almost gave up.

And I remember crying because I got a 27.

Everybody else had 75 or higher and I got a 27 and I really was crying and I

was driving home and I said, All I could hear was my first grade teacher, what she

said to me, you'll never be able to read or write, never be able to communicate,

never amount to anything in life.

And I came home and I curl up in a fetal position underneath this Bible stand

that my mom had in the living room.

And she came home from shopping and she saw me crying and she said,

what happened son, what's wrong?

I said, I worked, I thought I was going to pass.

I got a 27.

I didn't even come close.

and, she looked at me and she got quiet for a second.

Then she put her hand on my shoulder and she said, son, whether you become a

great teacher and healer and philosopher and travel the world like you dream,

or whether you go back to Hawaii and ride giant waves or you return to the

streets and panhandle as a bum, which you've done, I just want to let you

know that your father and I are going to love you no matter what, just love you.

When she said that, my hand went into a fist.

I looked up and I saw that vision again.

The night I met Paul Bragg, I saw that vision.

And I said to myself, I'm going to amass this thing called

reading, studying, and learning.

I'm going to amass this thing called teaching and philosophy and healing.

And I'm going to do whatever it takes.

I'm going to travel whatever distance.

I'm going to pay whatever price to get my source of love across this planet.

I'm not going to let any human being stop me, not even myself, nothing.

It was a no turning back moment.

And I hugged my mom.

I went into my room.

I got a Funkin Wagnalls dictionary.

Cause you, if you bought 20 worth of food at Kroger, you got an extra volume

of an encyclopedia in a dictionary.

And I got this dictionary out and I made a commitment to memorize the dictionary.

And I did 30 words a day until that dictionary was in my head.

And that allowed me, and I started reading encyclopedia, eight complete

sets of encyclopedia, Americana, Britannica, and all those things,

popular science, book of knowledge.

I read eight of those just to grow my vocabulary.

So I would be able to catch up with everybody else.

And, then what about, I, when I was, I went to back to school

and now I'm starting to pass.

I really grew fast from that.

And then This lady found me in the library cause she saw me in the library every day.

And she came up to me and she says, can you teach me what you're doing?

And I was doing yoga at the time.

And so my first student, I taught a little yoga too.

The second student wanted me to teach a meditation.

Then 17 students came out and asked me to teach mathematics.

And that grew.

Then when I left that school and I went to the University of Houston, I

used to do my meditation and yoga out under the trees and people gathered.

And I'd have a hundred, 125, 150, 400 people.

every day under the trees unless it was raining.

And then we went to the cafeteria and they'd come there.

And I started having a following and a gathering starting at by age 20.

And then when I went to professional school, I had students every

single night I was teaching.

And I was teaching, I was going around the city and the state, and now

I've been to 194 countries speaking.

So I just never stopped, and I'm still going.

you moved into that role of teacher trainer, someone

who shares information very quickly.

There's one thing you said that I want to go back before we jump ahead to where

we are now and start getting into the Demartini method and things like that.

And I read somewhere, I don't know if it was a topic on one of, on your

podcast or something on your website, you were talking about the word love.

and this is I'll quote to quote Huey Lewis, the power of love.

I don't think that's the exact wording you used, but.

when you just said your mother told you that her and her father were going to

love you regardless, that's what popped in my head, literally the power of love.

And then I was taken back to, and I read some of it, I don't think I listened to

everything on your site, but you obviously talk about love and what a catalyst it is.

And obviously it's foundational to, a lot of world religions and,

thoughts of people with a creator and God, and, but this was parental.

Sounds like unconditional as we can be as humans.

Talk about that.

I'll again, Huey Lewis, the power of love, because I think you've recently

had that on some things you've done and, and how important it was for

you at that stage in that time.

Dr. John Demartini: Yeah, I don't think in any of the books that I've published,

there's a bosom to have love in it.

I think that's just a standard foundation.

I don't think of love as...

an infatuation where you have an impulse from your amygdala to seek

for procreative purposes only, not a lustful kind of infatuation.

I think of a love as the embracing of the complementation

of opposites that's in people.

if I go up to somebody and I say, you're always nice, you're never mean,

you're always kind, you're never cruel, you're always positive, never negative,

always peaceful, never wrathful.

Do you believe that?

They'll go, not exactly.

And they'll be intuitively led to remember things that

weren't that way, the opposite.

And I said, you're always mean, you're never nice, you're always

cruel, you're never kind, you're always negative, never positive.

They go, no, that's not it.

And then I say to them, sometimes you're nice, sometimes you're mean, sometimes

you're kind, sometimes you're cruel, sometimes you're positive, sometimes

negative, sometimes peaceful, ethical.

Do you believe that now?

And they'll go, yes.

So I believe that everybody has the pairs of opposites.

Whatever you perceive as a pair of opposites.

Wilhelm Wundt in 1895, who was the father of experimental psychology, said that

when you have simultaneous contrast, you have maximum potential and you have love.

So I'm a believer that love is a synthesis and synchronicity.

A simultaneity of all pairs of opposites.

So whatever you like about somebody, you're going to also get the other side.

If you're ready for, if you're mature in a marriage, you're going to be

able to take the and the dislike, the positive and the negative, the

kind and the cruel, the two sides.

When you're able to love both sides simultaneously,

Equally, you now have love.

And that means the things you like and dislike equally because you see the

things you like support you and keep you juvenile and dependent and impulsive.

And the things you dislike makes you precociously more

independent and more resourceful.

And you need a combination of those to maximally grow and develop.

And so those synthesis of those is where I define love as, so I define love as a

synthesis, synchronicity of all comparing opposites at all scales of existence

from the subatomic to the astronomic.

And that's the divine love that we could call it, the universal love, if you want

to call it that, because it's omnipresent.

It's at all scales.

It's in the subatomic particle and antiparticles and it's at the

astronomical, black holes and white dwarfs and, it's astronomical levels too.

And there's a conservation, a symmetry, an elegant symmetry and mathematical

conservation at all these scales.

And I'm a real lover of the science.

Of love.

Cause I really believe there's a science to it.

And I do my best to in that with the Demartini Method to ask a series

of questions, to make you conscious of what you're unconscious of.

So you can be fully conscious and embrace the love that's always present.

Cause we sometimes overlook the love that's present by holding onto fantasies

about how life's supposed to be and then honoring, not honoring the whole.

We're trying to get rid of half of it instead of honoring

the whole of what life is.

That'd be like being in a relationship with somebody and saying, I want you to

get rid of half of yourself and I just want this side, but I want to love you.

And I'll love you if you do that.

that's not real love.

That's a, an infatuation with a fantasy and avoidance of a nightmare, which is

an animal amygdala response, instead of a heart and higher brain functioning,

reasonable individual, which I think we all have the capacity to express.

Yeah, that's a great in depth conversation about a word that

I've always said is thrown around a little bit too frivolously in our culture

society because people love pizza.

They love a football team, they love, and you brought up a word mature early

on when you were having that, when you were discussing that just then, and

at times, maybe I'll ask it this way, where are we at culturally, because

at times I see things and I go, you know, I just don't think we're very

mature people to be able to have the conversations like we're, Attempting

to have right here, I think people are very immature, their feelings and

emotions driven, which I know you address that with some of the things you do.

and I guess the way I want to pose the question and then we'll start

sliding into some of the methods and some of the, the applications and all

that you can provide for us, where are we at as a society and a culture?

Because there are times and I want to share this.

This is a little bit transparent on my part.

I at times can be extremely optimistic about future,

spiritually, I have an eternal mindset, different things like that.

And then at times I can be extremely disappointed and

disheartened by things I see.

And I'm an executive coach.

I work with leaders and there's some things I work with

that are extremely positive.

And then some things that are extremely challenging.

Just respond, where are we at culturally?

Are we doing, yay, great, thumbs up, we're a 10 out of 10, or ooh, we got

problems, or somewhere in between.

Dr. John Demartini: it fluctuates.

And I think that we're temporarily.

fling in our amygdala right now, highly polarized.

And, if I look at myself, 39 years ago, I did an experiment.

I noticed that whatever I was saying to somebody was also for me.

I noticed whatever I was saying about somebody was also a reflection of me.

And instead of waiting for people to push my buttons, I decided to do a preemptive

strike and to look in a dictionary.

I got the Oxford English Dictionary, it was the biggest dictionary I could find.

And, Went through and underlined every word that described

a human behavioral trait.

Because that's my real specialty, if you want to call it a specialty.

And I found 4, 628 traits.

I itemized them out.

There was a guy named Gordon Alport that did something similar.

He found a thousand, but there's probably some more words since he had done that.

And then what I did is I went out to the side of where that word was.

And I wrote out, who do I know that expresses that

trait to the greatest degree?

Just put a little initial there that I knew of.

And then I went into my life and I said, all right, John, where and

when, Do I perceive myself displaying or demonstrating that particular

trait, that action or that inaction, and keep identifying where it was,

who is it to, and who perceived me that way until I could own that I

had it as much as I saw in these individuals that were the most extreme.

And I realized that I had all 4, 628 traits.

I was nice and mean and kind and cruel and positive and negative and peaceful

and wrathful and considerate and inconsiderate and honest and dishonest.

And I had every one of those traits in my own way of expressing it.

Not the way everybody else does because they have a unique set

of values filtering how they do it, but I'm doing the behavior.

And that made me realize that the buttons we have in life that we react

to people with seeking or avoiding or admiration or despise are nothing

more than the disowned parts of ourselves that they're reminding us of.

That we're too proud or too humble to admit that we see in them,

but we don't, we're too proud and humble to admit that we have it.

So I didn't want to wait to have to go through the learning process and have the

wisdom of the ages with the aging process.

I want to go dig deeper and find out where I already had those.

And that was enormously resourceful because it calmed down a lot of my

impulsive subjective bias and judgments on people and putting people on pedestals or

pits instead of putting them in my heart.

And I just realized they're just human beings and they're all worth

putting in my heart, but none of them are worth putting on pedals or fits.

I learned that.

And I met some really amazing people.

I met 9, 000 world celebrities.

and I, some of them, you think, Oh, these are amazing.

They're just human beings.

And there's nothing they've got that we don't have.

I teach people how to own the traits of the greats.

Take people that you think are heroes and villains and find out

where you have all that in you.

And the moment you do, instead of judging them, They're only reminding you of

the things you haven't loved in you.

I think it was in Romans 2.

1, it has a statement in there, be beware of judging because what you judge is you.

And that's true.

I found that to be true.

We only resent things in other people that remind us of something we feel

ashamed of and we're dissociated from it by being addicted to pride to cover it.

And when they were reminding it by these people, they're pushing our

buttons and they're trying to teach us how to go back and love that part.

And they're our teacher, not our enemy.

And the same thing for the admired part.

We're just too humble to admit it, but we have that trait too.

Nothing's missing in us.

I've said at the level of the soul, which is the state of unconditional

love, nothing's missing in us.

At the level of our senses, things appear to be missing in us.

And the things that appear to be missing in us are all the things we're

too proud or too humble to admit that we have, that we see in other people.

And so reflective awareness is the key to intimacy and true love.

We realize that the seer, the seeing and the seen is the same, whatever

you perceive in others, you have.

Now you can actually love that individual because you're not

putting them above you or below you.

They're not on pedestals or pits, they're in your heart.

And that love, is profoundly impactful and helps transform

relationships, transform business.

See, if you're too proud, you go into narcissism, you try to get something

for nothing, which is non sustainable.

And if you minimize yourself and put them on a pedestal and you disown

that, you try to sacrifice for others.

But if you have sustainable fair exchange by having equanimity within

yourself and equity between yourself and others, you now have the love that

actually maximizes human potential.

And when you're looking down on people, you're trying to change

them into you, which is futile.

When you're looking up at people, you're trying to change

you into them, which is futile.

Instead of being you and allowing them to be them, you have futility.

And that's when your will is now not matching what has been called in

theology is divine will, the way it is.

And you're now fighting the universe.

But when you actually love and have equanimity, there's no fight.

And now you're in the flow, you're in the zone, you're in the, you're

in a state of grace on life and you're appreciative of life.

And I'm interested in helping people maximize that.

where they match and they empower themselves in their body.

I could go for hours on how that affects physiology and epigenetics

and autonomic regulation.

and, it does amazing things in business development.

It does amazing things in financial development, cause you can't manage money

if you've got emotions all over the place.

You can manage it when you're objective and strategic and you care and serve

people with sustainable fair exchange.

You build businesses and build wealth that way.

All areas of life are enhanced through love.

So that's why I'm, I can go for weeks, nonstop, on the significance of what love

really represents in human consciousness.

Something that I really, all of that was extremely powerful, but

you brought up judging, and I'll even use a more common word, which is judgment.

Let's just call it comparison.

You're judging or comparing yourself to others.

And, one of the more powerful statements that I think we repeat that Jesus

use was judge not lest ye be judged.

And we say that we throw it around in church world.

It's thrown around all the time, but I don't know that people grasp it.

I think with our social media and things like that, it is way too

easy to compare ourselves to others.

And you brought it up.

There's some people.

That compare themselves and see themselves as less.

Some people compare themselves as, see themselves as more than others.

and I love the thought of even, it's another word that we've messed up

in our culture, which is equality.

we are as equals as creation.

And I love that you said all of these, I think, characteristics

are really in all of us, the way we're built and formed and created.

And so I guess my question related to that is, how do we, first of all, break

away from that situation of judging or comparison to get in a mode of focusing

on self and see, this is where a lot of people get uncomfortable when we start

getting into, religion on us, because you're not supposed to focus on yourself.

how do we look at ourselves enough for that?

To start applying the methods, you're about to share some things that,

that will be helpful for us so that we could then get in the mindset of

wanting to learn some of these things.

Because some people don't even want to go down the path.

I think they wouldn't be here at the 40th minute mark of the podcast

if they weren't in that mode.

But let's just pretend that people are not even getting over that

hump to even want to go further.

Farther to really, uncover some of these things.

What are some things related to that?

And then let's start diving into some things that you want to

teach us that we need to know.

Dr. John Demartini: anytime we're too proud or too humble to

admit that we have what we see in others, we have disowned parts.

Now I've taken personally over 150, 000 people through my method And I

have 7, 000 facilitators and I've taken thousands of people through.

So it's millions now of helping people realize that whatever you see in others

is you, which is a biblical statement.

And it goes even before biblical writings.

it's a very ancient Sumerian and Egyptian and Greek, and

it goes all the way through.

We can find references to it everywhere.

So we ask the question, what specific trait, action or inaction, do I

perceive this individual displaying or demonstrating that I admire

most or I might despise most, that I've got on a pedestal or a pit?

And then once I identify what that trait, action, or interaction, and then ask,

okay, go to a moment, me, myself, where and when I display that same benefit.

Or that same trait that I admire or despise, the same,

where do I do the same action?

I do the same, just like in Romans says.

then once you go and honestly answer that, and people are too proud to admit

they have that or too humble to admit they have that sometimes, cause when

they're looking down, they're too proud.

If they're looking up, they're too humble.

But when they actually go and discover that it brings tears to their eyes

because they've been repressing their awareness in the unconscious and storing

that imbalance in their subconscious.

And it feels empty.

Every time you disown a part that you see in others, you feel empty.

All judgment leaves you feeling empty.

You cannot feel fulfilled with judgment, but love when you embrace

both sides simultaneously is fulfilling.

The Gnostics in the second century called it pleroma,

fullness, and kenoma, emptiness.

And the second we identify where we do that to the same degree, quantitatively,

qualitatively, and then go in there and find out the trait we think is small.

Many of the things we think is terrible a day, a week, a month, a year, or

five years later, we go look back and go, thank God that happened.

And some of the things we think are terrific, like that new house or

whatever, that new car or whatever, Days, weeks, months, years, labor, that

freaking house, we find the downsides to.

So why have the wisdom of the ages with the aging process?

Why not have the wisdom of the ages without it by looking

for both sides simultaneously and becoming present with it?

Because otherwise it's going to activate an impulse in your amygdala or an instinct

in your amygdala to seek or avoid and the external world extrinsically runs you.

Instead of you running you, the core of you is love.

If you're a Christian, that's what Christ is about, right there,

that, not the judgment, that.

The reflective awareness, pure reflective awareness is true

intimacy and where human will matches divine will, where the paradox of

predestination and free will join.

Cause now you realize there's nothing to change in me relative to others.

There's nothing to change in others relative to me.

I have nothing to fix.

Nothing's out of order.

I'm now aware of the divine magnificence.

I'm seeing the order of the universe at that moment.

And that place is grace and it brings tears of inspiration.

And what's interesting is when we get supported by people, we admire

our parasympathetic goes online.

When we get challenged with fight or flight, our sympathetic goes online.

But when they come into perfect balance, we get an autonomic regulation.

We get a heart rate variability that maximizes.

We have no fear of losing something, no fear of gaining anything.

We're not in philias and phobias.

We're in the present.

And in that state, there's a synchronicity in the brain between

the beta waves and the Delta waves.

And there's a gamma synchronicity and there's a whole brain function.

The heart opens.

And that is real physiology.

I can demonstrate that, reproduce that, guarantee that action.

And by holding people accountable, by asking quality questions, which

is what the Demartini Method's about, to asking quality questions that

equilibrate the mind and liberate them from the emotional entanglement of the

infatuation, resentments of judgments that they've got people in pedestal pits

that are holding them back from doing something extraordinary in their lives.

So I believe that's what.

From a Christian perspective, and I think that's what Christ

was trying to say, is that love, that form of love, is liberating.

And that's the one that is being represented.

We have all kinds of different throwing around the word love, but that's

the love that I'm talking about.

that right there is something.

And probably the only time we have that is when we're zero to one years old.

We can pee, we can poo, we can, bite and chew and throw things that

first year until they stand up.

Once they stand up, no.

Yes.

Yes.

Now all the moral hypocrisies that we trap ourselves and other

people with start to pick up.

But right before that, we have an unconditional love, and that child

gets that maybe the first year.

Most of the time it picks up all kind of judgments after that, and has to work its

way, as Kohlberg says, we have to work our way eventually into our midlife crisis

before we finally reach the point where we no longer, and we've transcended all

the people's judgments that are blocking us from being able to love people.

the

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that.

I'm a grandfather and I've got a three year old and a one year old and there

is something that comes over me when I interact with those girls or both girls.

and I'm in agreement with you.

There is something that, if I'm doing business with you and all

that, we may have some, back and forth and all that, but with them.

unconditional, there is nothing that they can do wrong.

And it's fascinating.

What I'd love to do here, there are leaders listening in.

There are people that run businesses, there's people that

run ministries and people that are associated with those things.

And the Demartini method, I know has, there's a lot to it.

And so we Probably have 10 minutes ish or so.

I would love for us, and I hope this isn't tough.

If it's not doable, let me know.

I'd love for us to do somewhat of an introduction so that people can get a

grasp of what they're talking about.

And then we'll finish up with how they can get more info.

Cause I know you've got lots of books, trainings, different things like that.

So is that possible and doable here?

Because what I'd love to do, I think we have.

Tilled the soil and given story and all enough so that people that are

listening in are going to want to know, all right, I want a little bit

more, how can I get some more info?

So whichever direction you want to go, but I love, I'd love for us to get a little

bit more into the Demartini method so that people know a little bit about what they

might could find if they keep going after they listened in on this conversation.

Dr. John Demartini: Demartini Method started, it wasn't called that initially.

I, when I was 19 years old, 18 going on 19, my mom said, what

do you want for your birthday?

And for Christmas?

Cause I was born on Thanksgiving day.

I said, mom, I want the greatest teachings on the face of the earth by

the greatest writers who've ever lived around the world, from around the world.

She said, you sure you don't want a t shirt?

I said, no mom.

She contacted her brother, which was my uncle Ralph.

And he was a professor at MIT.

He was a physicist and chemist.

And he sent me Two giant six by six foot wooden crates of textbooks.

It was the best gift I probably ever had in my life, other than children, but

they were sent on a big flatbed truck.

And I went out on a crowbar, they put them on the ground and I'll open it with

a crowbar and filled my room with books.

One of the books was by Leibniz, the German philosopher,

Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz.

The Discourse on Metaphysics.

And in that book at the very beginning, he said that there's a perfection in the

universe that few people ever get to see.

And no human being could improve upon it.

And Voltaire satired him with Candide and attacked him for that.

But Voltaire did not really understand what he was saying.

But Leibniz said that there's a higher order.

Bohm called it an implicate order, but there's a higher order there that we just

don't, our Wolfram, the mathematician called it computational boundaries.

We don't have the capacity to comprehend the hidden order that's

in the reality that we have.

And we go around and we judge something and have a random perspective,

which means missing information, according to Claude Shannon.

So I basically started out on a quest to find the hidden order.

Now, I'd also got a book from him from 1947, by the principles

of quantum mechanics by Paul Dirac, the Nobel prize winner.

Not an easy book to read when you first started learning to read, but

I got dictionaries out and I started taking every word I didn't understood.

I just started, kept reading it and using the dictionary.

But in there, he said for every particle, there's an antiparticle.

And if you join them together, you make light.

if you take light and put it in a bubble chamber, you can separate

the particle and antiparticles.

And I thought in my naivety, what an amazing metaphor.

If I was to take positive and negative emotions and I was to put them

together, could I make enlightenment?

Could I make love?

Cause to me, enlightenment and love are the same, love and light.

I think that's what they said in John in the new Testament, Christ was light.

There's a message there and it was love.

So that started me on a journey at age 18, going on 19, for the method.

And the method is been developing since for 50 years now.

And it is basically everything I can get my hands on in every field I can

get my hands on to try to compose.

a series of questions that make us conscious of what we're unconscious

of, so we can be fully conscious.

Because a fully conscious individual sees both sides simultaneously.

And the moment they do, they're graced.

And there's a reproducible state.

I can take anybody to a state where they're speechless with tears of

gratitude, where they see the hidden order and there's nothing except thank you, real

gratitude, not thank you superficially, but thank you for seeing both the

support, the challenge, the positive, the negative, both sides simultaneously.

I see it.

I see the way the universe is working for me now.

And so the method is a series of very concise questions to make you conscious

of information you've been overlooking and unconscious of, that is keeping you

in bondage emotionally with judgments and infatuation, resentments, and grief, and

all the stuff that baggage that people run their life by, because anything you

infatuate with or resent occupies space and time in your mind and runs you.

And so all that stuff, We have all of a sudden a clear consciousness where there's

nothing there except tears of grace.

And we see that perfection.

The method is designed to help people see the perfection of their

life so they can actually start to live from an authentic place.

If you exaggerate yourself, you're not authentic.

If you minimize yourself, you're not authentic.

It's only when you're being yourself that you're authentic.

And when you're authentic, That's when you're having the Holy Communion.

That's when you're actually present.

That's when I define it as the Christ consciousness.

That's when you really have it.

We can hypocritically go around and say, yeah, I'm a Christian or whatever.

But people, when they ask me if I'm a Christian, I said, only in that moment.

The rest of it's my hypocrisy.

In that moment, I'm a Christian.

The rest of it, I just talk, it's words, it's everything.

But in that moment, I am, I'm honoring that state.

In that state, that's what the method's for.

And that I can show unquestionably, how it empowers every of your life and your

mental capacity, how it affects the brain, your business, your finance, your

relationship, your social life, your physical health, and your inspiration.

All of those are empowered in that state.

And so that is my mission, to design methodologies and principles

that help people maximize that.

and I do that every day.

that's the method.

And I, there's, I, all the questions and there's lots of questions

in it, but they're very precise.

And I train people methodically.

I'm starting a training tomorrow, in fact, methodically on how to do that.

So we have people out there, thousands of them out there, helping

people around the world with it.

Is it done one on one or is it in group settings?

Dr. John Demartini: You can do a one on one or a group setting.

I did, I had 750 people in India on Zoom recently, where we were doing the method.

And was, imagine 750 people sitting there speechless with

tears and snot out of their nose.

I don't know how to describe it.

You're so grace that there's, you, there's no facade, just you, just

grace over something they swore they would never be able to love in life.

That's what we were able to do.

And that was 750.

I'm from India.

And we had a translator doing it.

So it still worked through translation.

and what's fascinating is that it sounds as if this cuts

across belief systems, structures, cultures, things like that.

One question related to what you were just bringing up that came to mind,

this might be a little bit of a negative slant, but do we have Are some of the

structures, the organizations that we have in our current society, culture,

are they inhibiting people from going to these places we've been talking about?

And, whatever structure you want to talk about, government, I think religions,

churches, some of the church structures, you would think we would be helping people

move along, but I can guarantee you, and I want to say this, With every fiber in

me that there are some of my Christian brothers and sisters that are listening

in and they're going to be quite offended with some of the language we're using.

I'm not because I can see how it lines up with my belief system.

But, and there are many church structures and all would say, whoa, yoga.

You know what I'm saying.

what are

Dr. John Demartini: Yoga just means union.

Yoga means union and religion.

Religion comes from ligation to suture together pairs of opposites.

They're the same thing.

There's no, there's people, I always say whatever we're not

up on, we can get it down on.

Whatever we're not knowledgeable about, the more knowledgeable we

have the more open we are to life.

right.

The bigger question is what all is out there that is keeping people, people,

we know they don't ask questions.

We talked earlier about maturity.

We talked about, consciousness and love, and I love that you brought grace into

the conversation, but it, there are a lot of things working against that.

And government structures and all that.

what is your biggest, what's your biggest hurdle in interacting with people?

what are you attempting to overcome?

Dr. John Demartini: let me.

Let me see if I can put it into a context.

When you're a young boy or girl, and you're in elementary school,

you probably have a science class.

And in the front of the class, in the science class, you'll see an atom,

hydrogen, then helium, and then lithium, and then beryllium, and then boron and

carbon and nitrogen, oxygen, all the way up to iron, and all the way up to uranium.

And each will get a little larger.

And you'll, in elementary school, swear that an atom is a little ball, a sphere.

And so you have little stick pictures with little red balls

and white balls and blue balls.

You make little models out of it.

And you're in your world, you believe that's what an atom is, a little sphere.

Then you go to high school and then you get the Bohr model and you find out, no,

it's a little solar system looking thing.

It's got a proton and a neutron and then it's got electrons going around it.

And it's like a solar system.

So it makes orbitals and spheres, And so you think, okay, it's a little bit more

abstract than the original idea, but I'm ready for that abstraction because

I had to take that first abstraction.

And then you go to, from high school to college, and then you

get introduced, wait a minute now, it's not exactly the Bohr model.

It's not exactly an orbital.

It's a probability distribution based on complex mathematics, which is a square

root of negative one times real numbers.

And it's basically a Schrodinger equation on the probability of where

that possible electron might be and where these protons and neutrons which

are made of mesons and quarks and things are made out of and gluons.

So now you realize, wait a minute now, I was taught something

here and it's not exactly that.

I was taught something here.

It's not exactly that.

And then you find out, you go towards your PhD and you find out.

the probability distribution is based on a point of infinite, infinitesimal

point called an electron, which has an infinite energy potential

with photons radiating off it.

And that has to be renormalized to make it work mathematically.

So it's a level of abstraction that goes a little further.

And then you realize that, we really don't know.

It's this murky field of vibration that's something that we're living

at the cornerstone of the mystery of.

But I had to teach them the illusion to the ready for truth.

And so every level of religious instruction is a different grade in

our level of abstraction until we can finally comprehend, if we can comprehend,

because our computation capacity is, the real divine magnificence.

So each of them are stumbling blocks.

But also stepping stones.

They're stepping stones, but stumbling blocks.

If you've transcended it, you'll see it as Well, that's not exactly true.

That's BS.

That's an institutional thing that people get attached to.

But at the same time, it was a necessary step.

As the, in Buddhism, there was an old saying that says, I will teach them the

illusion until they're ready for truth.

Because if you hit them with the truth too much, it's too abstract.

And they go to PhD levels, they can't do that from kindergarten.

So I have to teach them in layers.

And so I think even in the book of Revelation, There was a mentioning

of seven churches, and in the book of revolution it says I have this against

thee, I have this against thee, you call yourself Christians, but there

are these things that you're lukewarm about, and so in the process of doing

it, they're gradations of Christianity.

Or gradations of religious instruction.

In William James book, The Variety of Religious Experiences, it talked

about those stages and we build layers upon layers, just like our brain.

we have religious understanding of the amygdala, which is black

and white and punished and reward.

And we have higher levels where it's just love.

And so different people resonate with different stages.

So I don't want to say it's actually interfering.

I don't want to say that it's helping.

It's both.

It's depending on where you are.

If you're below it, it's helping.

If you're beyond it, it seems like it's holding you back.

It's just a stage of awareness, all teaching people based on

people's levels of awareness of that magnificence of our universe.

And part of it's the journey.

I think I saw some things that you wrote about.

this is a journey that we're on.

And that journey is hopefully for people about discovery and moving to that place

of understanding more about some of the concepts that we've discussed here.

I do want to ask.

For how people can really connect with you.

How can they go a little bit deeper, but I want it.

I want to ask it in two ways.

Let's just say someone has been a bit intimidated by some of this conversation.

There were some names mentioned.

There were some concepts mentioned that might be a little bit beyond

the level that they can comprehend.

So I want you to tell people where to go.

If they want to start at a simple stage.

And then the second thing is if someone has been with us, they have

known most of what you brought up.

It's been, wow.

Okay.

I want to know how to go a bit deeper.

Tell me some resources, books, something we'll try to

include all that in the notes.

But where can people go if they're in one of those?

Two categories or both those categories,

Dr. John Demartini: I have classes that are for each of those layers.

If I'm going on, if I'm going on major television networks, CNN or

something like that, I have one message.

Cause you can't go into the deeps of quantum mechanics on there very easily

without having to water it down a bit.

If I'm speaking to, university on physics or something like

that, I'd go to a deeper level.

So on my website, all that's there.

So people can just You know, go through and if they were to go to the media

section, for instance, there are probably 9, 000 radio, television,

newspapers, magazines, articles, blogs that they can play with.

All there, it's free.

It's just right there.

They can do it.

They can watch YouTubes, hours and hours of YouTube stuff and just find

the one that resonates with them.

Look at the topics that resonate with them and some that don't, I

don't try to, there's no way you're going to please everybody in life.

It's not possible.

So you, There's a spectrum of awareness out there and a

spectrum of values out there.

And many people get caught in the idea that my values are

right and your values are wrong.

And that's quite immature.

The whole spectrum of values are necessary.

You won't even marry somebody with your seven values.

You're going to find somebody you marry that's going to be doing

things that are, what's high on your values is low on theirs.

What's low on theirs, is high on yours, that kind of stuff.

Cause you're going to delegate stuff to them.

They're going to delegate stuff to you.

And that's how it's going to work.

You're never going to find somebody that's just like you, it'd be the twilight zone.

So there's a whole spectrum of values.

They're not right or wrong.

They're just humans.

If you can basically look inside yourself with a reflective awareness and find

out where you have everything they have in your own way and quit denying that,

You'll liberate yourself and love people.

And I think that's what the, that's what religion is about to me.

That's what it's all about to be able to love people and be grateful

for people and your life and this magnificent place we get to live in.

All the astronomy that we're doing, we're looking out, we're seeing planets

in the Goldilocks zone, we're seeing water on these planets, we're seeing all

these things, they're far distance away.

But right here on the earth, this is a magnificent place.

We got an amazing place to live.

And I think it's wise to be grateful.

I always say when you're grateful for what you have, you get more to be grateful for.

And I don't mean gratitude, if it supports your values.

gratitude, regardless of what happens.

That's another level of gratitude.

I would say that the quality of your life is based on the

quality of the questions you ask.

If you ask the question, how is, no matter what's happened to

me, how is it on my divine path?

How is it on my helping me fulfill my mission and be appreciative of it and

then use it resourcefully and then grow past the box that we trap ourselves in.

That's what the website will give you plenty of stuff to be working on.

You could be working on that, looking on that.

For a long time, there's plenty there, but just drdemartini.

com the website, drdemartini.Com.

I think you'll find my name.

If you look at my name, you'll find it.

I think you could search and find that plus there's a podcast and some

other great resources there We'll include

Dr. John Demartini: the Demartini show.

there's, plus there's lots of books and there's movies.

We've done 50 movies.

There's all kinds of stuff out there.

we'll include those in the notes.

I think it'll be a great resource for people we are Seek go create that's our

title those three words And i'm gonna ask you to choose one of those other the

other two just right now that resonates We're not going to get too, you know deep

here, but seek go or create which word do you choose and why it's my final question

Dr. John Demartini: I'll take seek because I think that we have innately a yearning

be, do, and have something extraordinary.

And we are seeking insights.

intuitively and through inspiration on how to maximize our contribution

of sustainable fair exchange with human beings on the planet.

So all you seek for them.

Excellent.

Dr.

John Demartini, thank you so much for this conversation.

I have enjoyed it much more than I thought I would, and I was looking forward to it.

so that says a lot.

I had high expectations and we exceeded that.

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I think they need to access some of these resources training.

So please share this.

I would greatly appreciate it.

And I think we'll just help to get this message out.

So thank you for doing that.

We have new episodes every Monday until next time continue being

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