I've been thinking about the devastation in California and the devastation that western North Carolina suffered.

And, and it's almost impossible to imagine if you've not even seen it.

But even if you've seen it, like I've seen some of the devastation in western North Carolina, it's still impossible to imagine.

So I want to encourage you to reach out to anyone that you know in those areas and just tell them hi, let them know you're thinking about them.

It, it has uprooted so many lives and taken away so much from people.

There are many, many organizations that are helping.

You can do some Google searches to find that out.

I know in western North Carolina, of course, a lot of the interest has shifted or declined, I guess.

But still, United Way is there.

The World Central Kitchen is there.

Catholic Relief Services are still there.

Those are three that I know of.

Certainly in California, everybody is there.

Red Cross is probably the most urgent need right now.

So I'll share some links in the show notes.

But I just wanted to let those people know, if they're, if they're listening, that we are thinking about them.

And we're also thinking about taxes.

This is the time of year that we start to receive all of the tax forms that we need to compile to bring to our tax preparer and to get ready to prepare our own returns, if that's what you do.

So when I saw an article in Money Watch with the title 7 Tips from a Tax Influencer as she approaches retirement at 70, I knew I had to reach out.

And when I met our guest today, Phyllis Joe Cubey, I was so, I don't know what the word is.

I mean, I was so pleasantly surprised at Phyllis as a person.

You know, she's not just a tax influencer, she is so much more.

And we're going to learn about the circuitous route that she took to becoming a tax preparer and influencer and all the other aspects that she has added to her life in her retirement.

But we're also going to talk about many of the things that we need to think about as we are managing our taxes in retirement.

So I'm looking forward to diving into all of this with Phyllis and learning with all of you some of the things we need to know about taxes, but we may not even have known to ask.

Welcome to Boomer Banter, the podcast where we have real talk about aging.

Well, my name is Wendy Green and I am your host.

So let me tell you a little bit about Phyllis.

Phyllis Joe qb, is an enrolled agent, a certified financial Planner and a National Tax Practice Institute Fellow.

She's prepared tax returns and offered tax planning representation and consultation services.

Since 1986.

Phyllis is a strong advocate for IRS practitioner dialogue.

She served on the Internal Revenue Service Advisory Council, and she has testified before the U.S.

senate Finance Committee on IRS reform.

Phyllis has served as the immediate past President of the New York State Society of Enrolled Agents, Vice Chair and Secretary of the national association of Enrolled Agents, PEC Board, and Chair of the national association of Enrolled Agents Ethics and Professional Conduct Committee.

Here's where the surprise comes in.

Phyllis began her studies at the Juilliard School, earning a Master's of Music in voice.

She's also a certified teacher of the Alexander Technique, which you'll hear about.

Phyllis joined the Board of Directors of Voices of Ascension in January 2019 and currently serves as President, Chair of the Advancement Committee and Organizational Effectiveness Committee and is a Finance Committee member.

She has joined the Carnegie Mellon University of College of Fine Arts Dean's Council in 2023.

And as of December 31, 2024, Phyllis is officially retired, having just sold her practice.

So as you listen to this podcast and you think about who you know that would benefit from learning some about how to manage our taxes in retirement, invite them to listen to the podcast, too.

Forward it to them.

Give them the link either to the live recording or give them Point them to the podcast Boomer Banter.

They can find it anywhere and share the knowledge with your friends and family.

So join me in welcoming Phyllis Joe Cuby to Boomer Banter.

Hi, Phyllis.

Hey, Wendy.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm really happy to be here.

I am so happy you are here because we all have questions about taxes.

Yeah, I have questions about taxes, too.

It's a big subject.

It's a big subject.

So you're what, two weeks into retirement?

How does it feel?

Yeah, well, the funny thing about it is I'm looking at my calendar and you already told everybody all the other stuff I'm involved in.

And I was like, how did I ever manage to fit my work in with all of this other stuff?

I know it feels good.

I mean, you know, that said, it really does feel different.

You know, there's like a layer of something that's on the way.

Isn't that nice?

Well, good for you.

I'm.

I'm excited for you to see how that develops.

So I mentioned your degree from Juilliard School, which blew me away when I first heard it.

I'm like, really?

A singer and she's a tax professional.

So Tell me how you what that journey was from Juilliard to taxes.

Right?

Well, I came from a musical family.

Both of my parents played bassoon, actually in the Pittsburgh Symphony.

So I had music all around me even before I was born and certainly as I was growing up.

And I actually tried not going into music for a little bit.

I did two years as a philosophy major, but then voice called me.

And so I enrolled as a voice student at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh.

And then I had, you know, a very successful career as a singer in Pittsburgh, which was doing very well.

And I thought, you know, I'm not sure this is really the career path that I want.

And you know, what I really knew about the career, I was a classical singer, was kind of the opera singer track.

And I thought, you know, it kind of feels a little bit too self centered centered for me, you know, I mean, when you sing, it is you.

But, you know, often when I am in a group of singers, it's kind of about a bunch of people going, me, me, me, me, me.

And that's not vocalizing.

It's so I.

You know, there was something in the back of my mind that thought, I'm not sure this is what I want to do.

And then I thought that I don't want to be sitting around in pits, you know, my 50s, saying, well, only if I'd gone to New York, you know, my life would be different.

So I decided to go to New York, and I didn't want to just plop myself down there.

So I auditioned for Juilliard and I got in.

That was very exciting.

And so I moved to New York, which was very exciting.

And I got my master's.

And I thought if, when I get my master's degree, I still want to, you know, try a different path, I can.

And lo and behold, when I got my master's, I thought, I still want to go in a different direction.

I wasn't sure what direction that was, but I had worked on work study in the registrar's office and they hired me right out of school.

So I worked for them and I loved that job a lot.

And so I was thinking, well, now that you're not rehearsing and practicing and doing all this other stuff, you should take a class.

And seriously, I was thinking more along the lines of macrobiotic cooking.

But I was on the subway one day and I saw that banner ad H R block, learn to prepare your own income taxes.

And I thought, that sounds very practical.

So I signed up for the course, never thinking I would have you know any interest in doing it.

I just wanted to learn how to do my own better because I'm sure my own.

And so I got into the course.

We had an amazing teacher, truly inspirational.

And there were about four of us in the class who really got into it and they hired us all to work for them and of the class.

So I was still working at Juilliard in my administrative role and worked at H and R Block in the evenings and on weekends.

And it was really funny because I had learned pre 86 tax law.

I took the course in 1985 and then I started practicing with 1986 tax law, which was a big change.

And I thought, well, I guess this is just the way things are.

So ever since then, you know, when we have retroactive changes and crazy changes that happen on December 30, it's like, oh, okay, you know, been there, done that.

So yeah, so that was it.

I worked for H and R Block and then my friends, I was, I was singing again by then, meeting people at gigs and they found out that I did taxes and they wanted me to do my tax.

Their taxes.

Of course they didn't want to come to H and R Block because it was kind of in a bad neighborhood.

Okay.

So I was like, maybe I could throw out my roommate and use the other bedroom as an office and write.

Off half the rent.

So there was my business plan and I was meeting all of my clients on gigs, so I never really had to advertise or market or anything.

I mean it was, it was the best accidental plan.

It was meant to be.

That's awesome.

It was meant to be.

I love that.

So let's get into the meat of this.

Okay.

And I want to start with the question about what we should know about how our retirement income sources like Social Security or pensions or 401ks, whatever, how are they going to be taxed and how can we minimize our tax burden?

Right, right.

That's a great question.

So I would say the golden rule of taxes is everything's taxable unless there's some kind of a special exception for it.

And that applies for most retirement income too.

So mainly your sources are going to be include Social Security, maybe a pension, retirement accounts that might be self created like IoAs, IRAs and SEPs and KIOs, things like that.

And then you might also have a lot of income from non retirement accounts, just non retirement investment accounts that you've built up over time as you've been saving.

So.

And a lot of people still work in retirement, so you Might also have some wages or self employment too.

And the tricky thing is that you, you know, it's all kind of taxed differently.

So for example, Social Security, and sometimes this is a surprise to people, it is very often taxable.

And up to 85% of your Social Security benefits can be taxable on your federal return.

Now most states don't tax Social Security.

I think there are nine now that do.

So you want to check your state taxation.

But basically when they started taxing Social Security in the early 80s, they created some exemptions or thresholds and then, you know, if you earned above these thresholds, you started to have your Social Security be taxable.

So the problem with those thresholds is they never index them for inflation.

So for instance, for a single person, if you earn between 25,000 and 34,000 of other income, you start entering that phase out zone.

And if you're above 34,000, 85% is taxable.

And those thresholds for a Married couple are 32,000 and 44,000.

So you can see where that may have meant, you know, a kind of more significant amount of income in the 1980s.

Now I mean I see very few people in my practice who don't have 85% of their benefits taxable.

So that, you know, that's often a surprise for people.

I live in New York where they don't tax Social Security.

And I think the states that do, Colorado, Connecticut, Minnesota, Montana, New Mexico, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont and West Virginia and then they all have different things.

Like some of them have their own income thresholds, some of.

So you just always have to check.

But a lot of people think, oh, Social Security is not going to be taxable.

And in fact our incoming president has made mention of that fact.

So stay tuned.

Maybe it won't be taxed, but we'll see.

Yeah.

And yeah, so combining all of the other income, the mandatory withdrawals and yeah.

So you know, those are.

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.

No, no, no.

So but those are what add up to that threshold level where then Social Security starts to be taxed.

It can be your required minimum distributions, it can be interest, dividend income, you know, so it really adds up.

And of course the people who have traditional pensions, you know, usually they're right over that threshold immediately.

So speaking of pensions, the you know, pensions, traditional pensions, 401k, IRA withdrawals, that's another important source and frequent source of retirement income and basically anything that you contributed to on a pre tax basis, which means it's not taxed when you contribute.

Like when you have your salary deferral into a 401 or if you make a deductible traditional IRA contribution, anything that's pre tax when it goes in is tax deferred and then it's taxable when it comes out.

And there are some other kinds of accounts like Roth IRAs and Roth 401ks that aren't taxable when you got no deduction.

Yeah.

So how do we reduce, you know, like we keep hearing about these billionaires who hardly pay any taxes.

Right.

I know charitable contributions, a lot of them have been cut as what's legitimate.

But some tips on how can we reduce our tax.

Yeah.

Well, I think, you know, the important thing to keep an eye on is what's my adjusted gross income.

So what in the heck is that?

I used to be able to say before they changed the 1040 form, it's the last line on page one of the 1040.

But now it's not.

And I think it's line 11 now on the 1040.

They started trying to shrink the 1040 with the last big tax law change, the Tax Cuts and Jobs act.

And they wanted to make it into a postcard, which was fairly laughable on many levels, especially that they're encouraging people and most people electronically file.

So who cares that's the size of a postcard or not.

So it's kind of, it's been expanding again, but it hasn't gone back to the, I call it the good old 1040 that everybody knew and love.

So that adjusted gross income figure is important.

And then why?

Because a lot of other provisions are based on that adjusted gross income, like that Social Security threshold for example, you know, is based on, they call it modified adjusted gross income.

Added a couple of things back in.

But that AGI figure is really important.

It affects how much of your medical expenses you can deduct.

It affects the amount of charitable contributions you can deduct.

That's really important is a lot of us don't start thinking about this retirement tax scenario until we're pretty close to retirement or even in it.

So I think it's really, really important to kind of plan ahead and you can start doing things when you're much younger.

Like I have a lot of clients who systematically are converting some of their pre tax accounts, like traditional IRAs into Roth accounts.

And they do a little bit every year so it doesn't bump them into a higher tax bracket.

And you know they're going to be in very good shape when they retire.

And you know, I think one of the things that it's kind of important to look at are, you know, what are the different buckets of retirement income that you can have?

We've talked a lot about Social Security and you know, the taxable pensions.

But you know, if you have a Roth IRA or another, a Roth retirement account, those distributions aren't taxable when you withdraw them.

So that's one bucket.

And then, you know, some people actually purchase annuities because they want the confidence and you know, the guarantee of income in retirement.

And usually if you purchase an annuity, say I pay 50,000 for it and it's a deferred annuity and it's going to start in 20 years when I start taking those distributions, a portion of it will be non taxable based on that ratio of the 50,000 contribution because that's already taxable income to the total value.

And the good news about that is usually the annuity company calculates that for you and you get a tax form that says, here's the gross amount and here's the taxable amount.

So you don't have to worry about doing it yourself.

I hope everybody's taking good notes.

So talk to me about estimated taxes.

I know that my mom's supposed to be paying some estimated taxes.

When does that start and who is expected to pay those?

Right.

Well, basically we have what's called a pay as you go tax system.

And what that means is that it's not enough to just wait until the end of the year and pay your taxes when they're due.

You have to pay as you're earning the income.

So if you're a wage earner, that tax is withheld from your wages and that's kind of how you pay as you go.

If you're self employed or you have investment income or other sources of income that don't have that opportunity for withholding, then you have to pay estimated tax payments.

And traditionally those estimated payments are made quite quarterly.

The due dates are usually April 15, June 15, September 15 and January 15.

And those in the audience might say, well, hey, those aren't even quarters.

What's up with that?

And it is true, they're not quarters.

And I forget why it is that way, but that's the way it is.

And I guess you have to have a certain amount of income for you to even be thinking about estimated taxes, you know, if it's.

Yeah.

And so you can be penalized if you don't pay in enough, if you don't prepay Enough.

And the threshold for the IRS is if you have a balance due of over $1,000 and you don't pay in either 100% of your prior year tax or 90% of your current year tax, and it's the lesser of those two.

So very often with my clients, if their income is kind of similar year after year, we just base their estimates on the prior year tax.

And I mean, estimated taxes used to be very difficult to pay.

Not difficult, but it was a little bit more of a project because you had to write a check, print a voucher, mail it in, and that was what you did.

Now, with so many things being possible to do electronically, it's super easy to make estimated tax payments for my clients.

Or I guess I should say former clients.

Former clients.

I know.

I've been listening to you say that.

A few years back, I was like, oh, okay, nobody's going to mail payments in anymore.

Especially during COVID there was such a delay in processing, and things were getting lost, and it just wasn't good.

So I was like, okay, if you're going to make estimated payments, I'm going to set them up for you.

And I could do that very easily as part of the electronically filed tax return.

But if you're an individual and you want to make your payments electronically, there are several ways that you can do it.

The IRS has a system called Direct Pay.

You just go in, you fill in the information to verify your identity, and you can make those payments.

It doesn't save any bank information or anything like that.

And then there's another system called EFTPs, which I believe is the Electronics Federal Tax Payment System.

There you go.

And that.

Yeah.

I was like, okay, I'm going to remember this.

And that's a little bit more robust.

You can save your bank information there, and it's a little bit easier once you have it set up.

But I think the key thing is with the electronic payments, not only are they easier to make, but a lot of times you might not have income coming in on a regular basis.

Like, maybe it comes in twice a year, or, you know, totally erratically.

You know, maybe you still are selling real estate and you make a commission when you make a commission and all of you have this large chunk.

So the nice thing is, you know, I've found in my practice, the quarterly payment thing just didn't work for people.

And so they just.

They'd skip them, they wouldn't make them, and then they'd really be in bad shape at the end of the year.

So I Realized, you know, you don't have to do it quarterly.

You can do it weekly, you can do it monthly.

You know, if you have a couple of large payments that come in periodically, you can send in a percentage of that.

But I think it's important because if we don't prepay, we tend to think that's our money to spend and then we spend when the taxes come due, it's not there.

And one more thing I'll say about the estimated payments, a lot of people hate to make them.

So sometimes your retirement income sources can be a really good avenue to have more tax withheld.

Like with Social Security, you can have up to 22% of your Social Security benefits withheld.

And if you're just new collecting Social Security, you're not used to that income anyways, you might not miss it.

A lot of people will have like up to almost 100% of their IRA required minimum distribution withheld because if they don't need the money, it's a great vehicle to.

And the funny thing about withholding is that no matter when it's done, it's considered made readably throughout the year.

So you can wait until December and have a big chunk withheld, and it's like you've been prepaying all year.

Okay.

All right.

Well, that's good.

That's good.

I'm going to take a quick break here and talk about our sponsor, Greenwood Capital.

And I have a financial advisor there, Melissa Bain.

They are my financial advisors.

And I really appreciate, appreciate her holistic approach to my financial planning.

She makes sure my accounts at Greenwood Capital work towards my goals and match my lifestyle as an independent registered advisory firm.

Greenwood Capital is a fiduciary.

They must place your interests above their own.

I also want to share that as a sponsor, Greenwood Capital has compensated my business for this testimonial.

For more information about how they can help you make a financial plan, go to greenwoodcapital.com all right, Phyllis, so in your article this seven, what was it, seven tips from a Tax Influencer, you gave a special warning about something to look for when your spouse dies that first year.

So can you go into that a little bit more?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So a lot of times it's not so much the case, although sometimes it can be for a single person.

Usually this happens with married couples.

And a lot of times one spouse will start their retirement benefits early based on their spouse's Social Security account.

So they can get a benefit based on their spouse.

And then when they reach their full retirement age or whenever they're going to claim they can.

If their own accounts amount is larger, they can switch over to that.

So what happens, I've discovered, when you have that strategy and both spouses are claiming collecting Social Security, and the spouse, the primary spouse whose account is the one that's being drawn on, dies, you actually get two tax forms for that year, one tax form from Social Security reflecting the benefits that were paid while both spouses were on the primary account.

And then the second one is for the benefits paid after the spouse dies and the surviving spouse is collecting on their own account.

And so I guess I had never really thought about that because it seemed logical to me that if it's one person, they should get one tax form.

But that's actually not the case.

And this actually happened with a client of mine.

And, you know, they had pretty hefty Social Security benefits, which was nice.

And when I got the Social Security benefit form, you know, it didn't seem like a particularly low amount.

So I didn't say, like, hey, what happened to your Social Security?

But then, you know, a little while later, she gets a notice from the IRS saying, hey, you didn't report all of your income.

So I went and I pulled her IRS wage and income transcript, and sure enough, there are two tax forms from Social Security.

So I asked her about it because she saves everything.

I said, you know, do you have another form?

She said, oh, yeah, I thought it was a mistake or a duplicate.

So I mentioned it.

Okay.

So, you know, it wasn't the end of the world and we were able to fix it.

But it was something I'd never thought of.

And then I've seen it, you know, in some cases from employer plans where the spouse.

You'll get one form for the time that the deceased spouse was collecting and then another one for the rest of the year just for the survivor.

Okay.

So be aware of that.

The other thing to be aware of is, you know, when you've been filing jointly for a long time and you lose your spouse is that final year that you're married, you can still file jointly, but after that, you know, unless you have dependents, you're basically going to go to a single filing status.

So you might have similar income, but you'll find that you're in a higher tax bracket because the breakpoints for single filers are lower than filers.

So sometimes people get surprised.

Yeah.

Good thing to think about.

Curious.

So you are a tax planner and a lot of people just use their CPAs for tax planning.

Is that right?

What would make somebody go to someone like you instead of to their cpa?

Well, I.

Tax professionals come in many different flavors.

I'm an enrolled agent, which is a federally authorized tax credential.

We take an exam, pretty hefty exam.

And we have the same practice privileges as CPAs and attorneys before the IRS and in most states.

And so CPAs, enrolled agents, attorneys, they may or may not offer planning.

I just always, I can't look at a tax return without offering some planning tips.

It's just who I am.

But a lot of tax professionals, whether they're CPAs, attorneys, you know, enrolled agents, or what we call unenrolled preparers who are uncredentialed preparers, they may or may not offer planning.

A lot of people just, you know, I'm doing your tax return, I'm taking what you're giving me, I'm slapping it on the forms or you know, entering it into the computer and I'm not going to go too much beyond that or sometimes people will offer a separate engagement for tax planning.

So I think it's really important because you know, you're helping someone position themselves for better success in the future.

And then Wendy, you were speaking about your financial advisor.

I am also a certified financial planner, but I haven't practiced as one for a very long time.

So I'm really happy that I have that credential and that broader knowledge.

But if someone I feel needs and wants more comprehensive financial planning, I refer that out to a colleague and talk with them.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

Okay.

A quick question about irmaa because I want to get to what you're doing now too.

So irmaa, for those that you aren't familiar with it, it turns out to be a surcharge on Medicare Part B and D which affects mostly high income individuals.

But I saw in an article in Money Watch, it was reported that many people trigger IRMAA when they have a one time income spike.

Like they sold a home or they sold some stocks, they withdrew more from an IRA to help their kids and they were mentally prepared when that transaction took place to pay the taxes for that year.

But then they find out that IRMAA kicks in a year later.

So can you explain what happens and how they can prevent this surprise?

Yeah, I mean I always laugh with IRMAA because first of all I can never remember exactly what it's stands for.

It is income related monthly adjustment amount.

So that's a mouthful.

But I always feel like Irma, you know, it sounds like a kindly relative come and help You.

And it's not at all.

So basically what IRMAA is, you know, Wendy, as you said, it's a surcharge that kicks in when people's modified adjusted gross income, there's that adjusted gross income term again, is above a certain amount.

And you know, I always kind of joke and say, well, it's a first world problem.

And that's true because if you're getting hit with irma, it means you're doing pretty well.

But on the other hand, if you can plan to minimize or even avoid that surcharge, you know, why not, right?

So it kicks in.

I forget.

I think I gave you a chart with the brackets.

But I think in 2025, it starts kicking in.

If you're single at 106,000 and if you're married at 212,000 and those amounts are actually indexed for inflation, they do go up each year.

So that's a good thing.

So it's not hitting people until you get above those amounts.

But you know, the thing that's really interesting is, you know, when I was growing up and saving for retirement, you know, I kept everything I heard and read was like, okay, your income is going to be so much less when you retire.

And you know what?

It's actually not true because people have been such good success.

They've got these huge employer 401k plans, 403 plans, they've been saving in their IRAs.

And you know, all of a sudden you can't leave that stuff in there anymore.

You have to start taking the required minimum distributions.

Now at age 73, if you're still working, you can defer that employer plan for a little bit more for your current employer.

But you know, basically between dividends, Social Security, pension, ira, you know, people, it's really easy to cross that threshold.

So one of the things that you can do if you start planning early is, you know, you might want to start like drawing down those taxable retirement accounts early, you know, taking enough each year that you don't get bumped into some super high tax bracket.

But, you know, you're actually starting to, you know, draw down those accounts so that when you do have to make those required minimum distributions, they're a lower amount.

But the surprise is when you've sold your house or you sold something like that has happened.

So how does that affect it and what can we do about it?

So the funny thing is, well, not funny, but it's just the way it is, is that IRMAA looks at your income from two years before.

So let's say in 2023, I sold my house.

I had a big taxable capital gain, or maybe you received an inheritance or, or maybe you got some other kind of a windfall.

Maybe you won the lottery.

Who knows?

But you have this big spike in income in 2023, and then in 2024 and 2025, things go back to normal.

And all of a sudden, 2025, you get this notice from the Social Security Administration, Medicare, saying, ha, ha ha, your premium's going to go up because of your income.

So that's the kind of thing that people don't prepare for.

You know, Wendy, what you were talking about, they prepare for the taxes.

They know that that's what they're going to be doing, you know, that year.

And they planned and prepared for it and did it, but they're not prepared for that adjustment on the Medicare premiums.

Yeah, there, there is actually a way that you can appeal that.

I think I gave you a link for that to put in the show notes.

Okay.

SS44.

Yeah, you did give me a bunch of links that I'll include.

So let's get back to you and what you're doing in retirement because we talked about your music, we talked about the Alexander technique so quickly because we're getting close here quickly.

Tell me about some of that.

Yeah, well, I still sing.

I take a voice lesson once a week whether I need it or not.

And I love that.

I love it.

And since COVID I've been doing it, you know, with FaceTime, so I don't even have to travel to my voice lessons anymore.

I still teach the Alexander technique, which was a wonderful method of, you know, movement and posture and body alignment.

You know, it really helps people, you know, just use themselves better in everyday life.

So I still have some private clients there.

I am a great proponent of fitness, so I work with a personal trainer twice a week.

That's my gift to myself.

And I love to walk.

So I walk in the parks.

I have three beautiful parks within a couple of blocks of my apartment in New York City.

And I've also discovered this very fun walking app, video game called Pikmin Bloom.

And so I am on that app, you know, tracks your step, it syncs with your phone and your health app on the iPhone.

And so, you know, those little Pikmin inspire me to walk even more than I did before.

But I love to get out in nature.

And, you know, this was a revelation for me because I'm also kind of a workaholic.

So there were years where I Never set foot in Central Park.

I never got out of the house.

I just stayed at my computer and I had an injury four years ago where I actually had to get up and take breaks.

And it's like, oh, look, the sky isn't falling.

I can take breaks and the world isn't falling.

Going to come to an end.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, good for you.

I'm glad that you're finding ways to enjoy this time and, and all my.

Volunteer stuff continues and I love that.

And you know, I feel that I can approach that now with a new freshness since I'm not pulled constantly in another direction.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Before I let you go, either like one or two or three tips that you can leave us with to better manage our taxes in retirement.

Yeah.

I would say, you know, one thing is to, you know, try to plan your withdrawal, your retirement withdrawals strategically, you know, starting early.

We talked about that a little bit.

You can optimize Social Security timing, you know, you can.

Some people, it's good for them to wait until age 70.

I did that.

It was a no brainer for me.

But that's not a one size fits all thing.

So you want to look at that, you know, Social Security planning strategies, particularly if you're married, you want to, you know, use tax diversification, creating those different buckets so you have some taxable, some non taxable income stream.

And you know, it's really great.

I mean, a couple of clients who came to me early with wanting to plan, we set them up so that when they retired they were basically paying zero tax.

You know, let's do this, we'll do this much from this bucket and then do this.

And then sometimes, you know, people do strategies like taking more out of their retirement and IRA accounts before Social Security so that they minimize the Social Security taxation when that keeps in.

And I'd say in general, start planning early, but if you don't plan early, don't worry, it's never too late to plan.

And you know, keep your eye on lowering your adjusted gross income and your taxable income and think about shifting your focus, especially from many years of saving, saving and accumulating to a shift to spending because you've earned it.

Thank you.

I know that's a tough shift to make sometimes, so I just wanted to let people know how they can find you.

You do have a website and it's P like Phyllis J like Jill or Joe or Joe QB.

It's K with a K-U B E Y.com PJ QB.com so go check her out and let her know what you learned and feed her questions.

You can also find me on on Twitter, X Bluestream, LinkedIn, Facebook.

Facebook is mostly personal, but Twitter is 100% taxed.

So I post a lot of good.

Stuff and I know you're on LinkedIn as well.

Yeah.

Okay.

I wanted to point you guys to the podcast that I am recommending this month.

I have partnered with some friends of mine who have a podcast called Fit Strong Women Over 50, and they started a community that's called Becoming Ellie.

Community.

You can go to their website, Becoming ellie.

And that's e l l I.com and there's an interesting story behind the Ellie.

You'd have to ask them.

So they interview experts and they share motivational stories about getting fit, healthy eating, strength training, running, and staying motivated.

It really is an inspirational podcast.

So go and check it out.

And to continue on with our financial literacy discussion for January, we're going to be talking with Jennifer Lee.

Jennifer is the author of a book called Squeeze the Lemon.

And to mix it up a bit, we're going to be talking, continuing our talk about financial literacy because she is a financial planner.

But we will also focus on leaving a legacy and what she calls a love letter to share your thoughts, history and values with your children and grandchildren.

So thank you, Phyllis, for being our guest today and sharing all of this wisdom.

And it was a joy to meet you.

I appreciated that.

Thank you.

And thank you all for joining us.

I know you are busy and I hope to see you again next week and listen on the podcast and rate and review whenever you get the chance.

Thanks so much.

Bye.