1 00:00:05,117 --> 00:00:07,897 Jen: Welcome to the So That's Why podcast, where we unpack the 2 00:00:07,897 --> 00:00:09,887 science behind everyday questions. 3 00:00:09,917 --> 00:00:10,557 I'm Jen. 4 00:00:10,827 --> 00:00:11,397 Chris: I'm Chris. 5 00:00:11,707 --> 00:00:12,237 Jamie: And I'm Jamie. 6 00:00:12,747 --> 00:00:13,227 Jen: Okay. 7 00:00:13,267 --> 00:00:16,297 So here's something to introduce today's topic. 8 00:00:16,477 --> 00:00:22,777 You step into a cold shower, or you get a fright walking into a dark room, or 9 00:00:22,787 --> 00:00:28,827 you sit in the car and, while a song's playing, and it hits that one big 10 00:00:29,127 --> 00:00:34,997 moment, and your body does the exact same thing in all three of those situations. 11 00:00:35,207 --> 00:00:39,067 Tiny bumps come up on your arms, the hairs stand on end. 12 00:00:39,417 --> 00:00:44,317 Three completely unrelated situations, one identical reaction. 13 00:00:44,647 --> 00:00:49,287 So today we are talking about why do we get goosebumps? 14 00:00:49,567 --> 00:00:52,707 Jamie: I do love that a freezing shower and the intro to your 15 00:00:52,707 --> 00:00:56,337 favorite song get filed by your body under the exact same heading. 16 00:00:56,727 --> 00:00:59,797 One of those is horrible, one is lovely, and your arms 17 00:00:59,797 --> 00:01:01,297 genuinely cannot tell them apart. 18 00:01:02,027 --> 00:01:06,277 Chris: And an, an interesting and maybe surprising bit from the research is that 19 00:01:06,337 --> 00:01:10,277 the shivery feeling we get and a physical goosebump don't always go together. 20 00:01:10,697 --> 00:01:11,667 You can have one without the other. 21 00:01:12,117 --> 00:01:14,947 So I don't know about you, people used to say when they'd shiver that 22 00:01:14,957 --> 00:01:16,077 someone's walked over their grave. 23 00:01:16,087 --> 00:01:16,427 Did… I don't… 24 00:01:16,427 --> 00:01:17,547 Do people still say that? 25 00:01:17,597 --> 00:01:18,317 Is that still a saying? 26 00:01:18,327 --> 00:01:18,347 No. 27 00:01:18,357 --> 00:01:19,147 Jen: It is, yeah. 28 00:01:19,147 --> 00:01:19,619 My parents do. 29 00:01:19,619 --> 00:01:21,597 I, I don't know where that came from either. 30 00:01:21,607 --> 00:01:21,627 Yeah. 31 00:01:22,087 --> 00:01:24,147 But yeah, it is definitely a thing that's said. 32 00:01:25,227 --> 00:01:25,307 There you go. 33 00:01:25,307 --> 00:01:25,557 Okay. 34 00:01:25,557 --> 00:01:30,757 So we'll get into the shiver versus the goosebumps in a bit because, well, 35 00:01:30,807 --> 00:01:32,357 for you and I, Chris, it's interesting. 36 00:01:32,587 --> 00:01:35,487 But some, some others might not find it that interesting, but hey. 37 00:01:35,887 --> 00:01:39,977 But we'll start with how common this is, 'cause I suspect people 38 00:01:40,207 --> 00:01:45,627 possibly assume goosebumps are more rare and just a more dramatic thing. 39 00:01:45,867 --> 00:01:47,567 Chris: They, they do, I think you're right, but they're actually 40 00:01:47,577 --> 00:01:49,447 m- far more routine than that. 41 00:01:49,647 --> 00:01:54,247 So surveys suggest that about a third of adults have at least one notable, 42 00:01:54,367 --> 00:01:55,927 let's call it a goosebump episode- 43 00:01:56,017 --> 00:01:58,857 every single week, with a lot of people reporting goosebumps every day. 44 00:01:59,227 --> 00:02:01,917 Jamie: So for a chunk of people, this is a daily event. 45 00:02:02,137 --> 00:02:05,367 I'd assumed it was a less frequent thing than that, more like a standing 46 00:02:05,367 --> 00:02:08,137 at a wedding sort of a thing- Mm … not a Tuesday standing in 47 00:02:08,147 --> 00:02:09,267 the supermarket queue kind of thing. 48 00:02:09,267 --> 00:02:09,727 Jen: Yeah. 49 00:02:09,787 --> 00:02:10,247 No. 50 00:02:10,557 --> 00:02:15,437 But, you know, on average, people get around six really significant 51 00:02:15,447 --> 00:02:19,257 goosebump moments a year, like the proper full body ones. 52 00:02:19,667 --> 00:02:20,887 But here's the bit I liked. 53 00:02:20,897 --> 00:02:29,417 Roughly 95% of those big moments happen in real life, not from films or telly. 54 00:02:29,787 --> 00:02:33,517 Jamie: So not a, not a great statistic for the entire entertainment industry. 55 00:02:33,757 --> 00:02:37,297 All that effort, and the thing most likely to raise your hair, hairs on your 56 00:02:37,297 --> 00:02:39,377 arms is just your own life happening. 57 00:02:39,387 --> 00:02:39,947 Jen: Yeah. 58 00:02:41,857 --> 00:02:45,147 Chris: So it's a decent argument against a box set, which, uh, 59 00:02:45,157 --> 00:02:47,137 I know Matt would absolutely hate it when I say that, the Mr- 60 00:02:47,137 --> 00:02:47,777 Jen: Yeah, he's our big- 61 00:02:47,777 --> 00:02:48,567 king of the box sets … box 62 00:02:48,567 --> 00:02:49,147 set fan. 63 00:02:49,827 --> 00:02:52,737 Chris: And, um, there's a difference to point out here between males 64 00:02:52,757 --> 00:02:53,957 and females in the data, too. 65 00:02:53,957 --> 00:02:58,837 So women report monthly goosebump moments or events more than men. 66 00:02:59,087 --> 00:03:03,367 So roughly, uh, 70% of women against just under 60% for men. 67 00:03:03,777 --> 00:03:07,717 Although, as ever, there's a lot of individual variation in those averages. 68 00:03:07,957 --> 00:03:10,957 Jen: I'm firmly in the gets them easily camp. 69 00:03:11,027 --> 00:03:16,137 So the music I walked down the aisle to when I got married gets me every single 70 00:03:16,137 --> 00:03:21,587 time, even though I've heard it 100 times, and I know precisely when the 71 00:03:21,587 --> 00:03:23,317 moment I walk down the aisle's coming. 72 00:03:23,637 --> 00:03:24,887 Chris: Go on, what is it? 73 00:03:24,897 --> 00:03:25,477 What's the song? 74 00:03:25,657 --> 00:03:27,087 Jen: It's Pachelbel's Canon. 75 00:03:27,247 --> 00:03:28,327 Chris: Can you break into song for us now? 76 00:03:28,337 --> 00:03:30,417 Jen: No, no, it's just a musical piece. 77 00:03:30,727 --> 00:03:32,507 You would not want me singing anyway. 78 00:03:33,557 --> 00:03:36,817 But yeah, so it's about a minute or so in gets me every time. 79 00:03:37,207 --> 00:03:41,927 So how do, um… how does the actual goosebump reaction work? 80 00:03:42,277 --> 00:03:42,657 Chris: Right. 81 00:03:42,757 --> 00:03:43,817 So if 82 00:03:43,817 --> 00:03:49,247 we look at the bump itself, almost every hair on your body has a tiny muscle 83 00:03:49,357 --> 00:03:53,657 at the base of the follicle, and it's called the arrector pili muscle, and 84 00:03:53,657 --> 00:03:55,637 it sits at a slight angle to the hair. 85 00:03:56,357 --> 00:03:59,707 Jamie: So there's a dedicated little muscle for every single hair. 86 00:04:00,087 --> 00:04:03,737 That's a level of complexity going on under my skin I was not aware of. 87 00:04:03,737 --> 00:04:04,057 Yeah. 88 00:04:04,057 --> 00:04:07,397 Chris: Yeah, and what happens, um, when that muscle contracts, it tugs 89 00:04:07,397 --> 00:04:11,677 the hair upright, and it pulls the skin around it into, like, a little dome. 90 00:04:12,157 --> 00:04:15,817 But if you do that across a, a, a whole patch of skin, and you get… 91 00:04:15,887 --> 00:04:18,567 you end up getting that kind of pebbled look, which is affectionately 92 00:04:18,567 --> 00:04:20,067 described as a goosebump. 93 00:04:20,997 --> 00:04:24,327 Jamie: Goosebumps are named after the resemblance to a goose's skin. 94 00:04:24,837 --> 00:04:28,597 Not exactly the most glamorous animal to human comparison, but there we are. 95 00:04:28,867 --> 00:04:30,567 Jen: Yeah, that's… it's more or less it. 96 00:04:30,957 --> 00:04:36,447 But the thing that is pulling those tiny triggers at once is your sympathetic 97 00:04:36,447 --> 00:04:40,817 nervous system, and that's the side of you that runs that fight or 98 00:04:40,817 --> 00:04:42,647 flight response that we talk about. 99 00:04:42,957 --> 00:04:46,157 Jamie: And that's the thing I want to get straight because I've always thought of 100 00:04:46,267 --> 00:04:50,817 fight or flight as the big heart-racing, something has gone wrong feeling. 101 00:04:51,157 --> 00:04:54,197 How does a nice song end up causing the same reaction? 102 00:04:54,587 --> 00:04:57,087 Chris: Yeah, I think in this case, if we picture it maybe less of, 103 00:04:57,547 --> 00:05:01,987 um, like, an alarm and more like an orchestra following the same conductor. 104 00:05:01,987 --> 00:05:07,767 So what happens is your, your heart speeds up, your, um, your pupils 105 00:05:07,767 --> 00:05:12,147 widen, and the tiny muscles around your hair follicles tighten, and this 106 00:05:12,147 --> 00:05:13,757 is all in response to the same signal. 107 00:05:14,337 --> 00:05:20,597 Jen: So whether the cue is cold air, a sudden fright, or a powerful, powerful 108 00:05:20,597 --> 00:05:25,167 piece of music, the whole section comes in together, that section of the orchestra, 109 00:05:25,407 --> 00:05:30,137 and I guess goosebumps are simply the part of the performance that you actually see. 110 00:05:30,467 --> 00:05:30,807 Jamie: Right. 111 00:05:30,837 --> 00:05:34,699 So the hairs standing on end aren't about the hairs They're just a visible 112 00:05:34,699 --> 00:05:38,149 note in a much bigger piece that's being played throughout the body. 113 00:05:38,159 --> 00:05:38,379 Jen: Mm. 114 00:05:38,519 --> 00:05:39,029 Chris: Yeah, that's 115 00:05:39,029 --> 00:05:42,049 right, and the messenger doing all of this is noradrenaline. 116 00:05:42,319 --> 00:05:45,219 So it's released from the nerve endings right at the muscle, and 117 00:05:45,219 --> 00:05:48,089 for almost everyone, the whole thing is completely involuntary. 118 00:05:48,369 --> 00:05:50,849 So your conscious brain isn't invited to the party here. 119 00:05:52,079 --> 00:05:56,929 Jen: So the clearest place to, to see what this reflex is actually for 120 00:05:56,969 --> 00:05:59,459 is in animals with a proper coat. 121 00:05:59,779 --> 00:06:05,359 So in a cat or a fox, that same reflex raises the fur and traps a 122 00:06:05,359 --> 00:06:07,689 layer of warm air against the skin. 123 00:06:07,689 --> 00:06:12,009 So it works like pulling on an extra layer of insulation. 124 00:06:12,469 --> 00:06:15,859 Jamie: And it's the same trick when a cat puffs up to twice its normal 125 00:06:15,859 --> 00:06:17,769 size in front of next door's dog. 126 00:06:18,469 --> 00:06:22,059 It isn't actually bigger, it's just stood all its fur on end to look bigger. 127 00:06:22,339 --> 00:06:23,009 Jen: It's quite clever, 128 00:06:23,009 --> 00:06:23,209 isn't it? 129 00:06:23,209 --> 00:06:25,009 Chris: Yeah, I'm, I'm thinking of this, like, scary cat now. 130 00:06:25,129 --> 00:06:25,249 Jen: Yeah. 131 00:06:25,929 --> 00:06:27,549 Chris: Um, and l- let's look at it. 132 00:06:27,569 --> 00:06:28,819 Honestly, we're responding 133 00:06:28,849 --> 00:06:33,179 in exactly the same way as that kind of wily fox or pesky cat, but 134 00:06:33,179 --> 00:06:36,139 of course, we've got, well, most of us have got very fine and sparse 135 00:06:36,139 --> 00:06:37,499 hair rather than a big coat- Mm-hmm 136 00:06:37,499 --> 00:06:38,679 unless something else is going on. 137 00:06:39,209 --> 00:06:42,469 Uh, so we get the goosebumps without the extra warmth or looking particularly 138 00:06:42,469 --> 00:06:43,749 scary to next door's dog, let's be honest. 139 00:06:44,199 --> 00:06:47,099 Jamie: So we've got the same biological system, just with a different output. 140 00:06:47,499 --> 00:06:47,929 Jen: Yeah. 141 00:06:47,989 --> 00:06:48,919 Yeah, that's right. 142 00:06:49,079 --> 00:06:53,599 Um, but it's… Sorry, Chris, it's my turn to give the fact fans 143 00:06:53,609 --> 00:06:55,279 something that's normally your part. 144 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:55,309 What? 145 00:06:56,529 --> 00:07:00,689 So there was a study in 2020 that showed that the very nerves that 146 00:07:00,689 --> 00:07:05,689 set goosebumps sit right next to stem cells in your hair follicle. 147 00:07:05,729 --> 00:07:10,869 So under a brief period of cold, you get the goosebumps, but under prolonged 148 00:07:10,869 --> 00:07:16,179 cold, those same nerves can actually nudge the hair follicle into growing 149 00:07:16,299 --> 00:07:18,289 new hair, which is always a good thing. 150 00:07:18,509 --> 00:07:21,159 Chris: It is, and let's be honest, it's a surprising second job, isn't it? 151 00:07:21,189 --> 00:07:21,589 Jen: Mm-hmm. 152 00:07:21,639 --> 00:07:24,899 Chris: Um, and it's worth saying that it's still fairly fresh research, this 153 00:07:24,899 --> 00:07:26,909 whole area, but it does suggest that the 154 00:07:26,909 --> 00:07:30,959 reflex is doing a bit more kind of quiet maintenance than people had assumed. 155 00:07:31,019 --> 00:07:31,369 Jen: Yeah. 156 00:07:31,949 --> 00:07:33,579 Jamie: Before we move on, you said 157 00:07:33,899 --> 00:07:37,179 earlier, for almost everybody, the whole goosebump process 158 00:07:37,179 --> 00:07:38,409 is completely involuntary. 159 00:07:38,409 --> 00:07:39,509 Yeah, I thought I'd got away with that. 160 00:07:39,509 --> 00:07:42,269 Are you saying there are people who can voluntarily bring on goosebumps? 161 00:07:42,439 --> 00:07:44,969 Jen: There actually are people who can voluntarily- Oh … bring 162 00:07:44,969 --> 00:07:46,939 on goosebumps, but it is rare. 163 00:07:47,179 --> 00:07:52,589 So there was a small study that looked at people who can bring on goosebumps 164 00:07:53,049 --> 00:07:57,959 at will, and actually, only a handful could genuinely do it on demand. 165 00:07:58,199 --> 00:07:59,819 I don't know how they discovered it. 166 00:07:59,899 --> 00:08:03,569 But anyway, most people describe, like, the feeling starting at the 167 00:08:03,579 --> 00:08:07,939 back of their neck and then spreading down their arms, and they talked 168 00:08:07,949 --> 00:08:12,349 about it being more like flexing a muscle, rather than a sad thought. 169 00:08:12,559 --> 00:08:16,249 Jamie: So somewhere out there is a person who can simply decide to have goosebumps. 170 00:08:16,549 --> 00:08:19,669 That's a deeply pointless superpower- … which I'd actually quite like to have. 171 00:08:19,929 --> 00:08:20,029 Jen: Me too. 172 00:08:20,029 --> 00:08:20,089 Be 173 00:08:20,299 --> 00:08:21,399 a good party trick, that. 174 00:08:21,519 --> 00:08:21,999 Chris: Yeah, definitely. 175 00:08:22,379 --> 00:08:22,679 Off we go. 176 00:08:23,659 --> 00:08:23,879 Yeah. 177 00:08:24,539 --> 00:08:27,729 Um, so the far more common version of goosebumps that many 178 00:08:27,729 --> 00:08:30,849 of us experience is the, uh, the musical one, and it's actually got 179 00:08:30,859 --> 00:08:32,429 its own name, which is frisson. 180 00:08:32,939 --> 00:08:36,329 And that's the chill that you get when there's a key change or a 181 00:08:36,339 --> 00:08:39,799 voice cracking or a choir coming in when you didn't expect it. 182 00:08:40,359 --> 00:08:44,259 Jen: It sounds so much more sophisticated than goosebumps, frisson, doesn't it? 183 00:08:44,299 --> 00:08:45,169 Chris: It's the pronunciation, isn't it? 184 00:08:45,169 --> 00:08:45,719 Jen: Yeah. 185 00:08:45,729 --> 00:08:45,779 Frisson. 186 00:08:46,359 --> 00:08:50,259 But the mechanism, um, there, it's actually really clever. 187 00:08:50,279 --> 00:08:56,139 So your emotional brain hears that sudden swell, and for a split second flags 188 00:08:56,139 --> 00:09:01,149 it as a big change that might need a response, so the control panel fires. 189 00:09:01,379 --> 00:09:05,869 But then the rest of your brain catches up, confirms you're simply 190 00:09:05,869 --> 00:09:10,139 sitting to music, safe, you know, you're safe and well, and rewards you 191 00:09:10,139 --> 00:09:11,829 with like a little hit of dopamine. 192 00:09:11,849 --> 00:09:15,059 Jamie: So it's basically a jump scare with a happy ending. 193 00:09:15,439 --> 00:09:20,319 Your brain goes, "What was that?" Realizes it was just a brilliant chord of music- 194 00:09:20,329 --> 00:09:20,609 Jen: Yeah 195 00:09:20,609 --> 00:09:22,829 … Jamie: and then quietly slips you a treat for your troubles. 196 00:09:23,389 --> 00:09:26,199 Chris: That's the one, but not everyone is fortunate enough 197 00:09:26,199 --> 00:09:27,339 to actually experience this. 198 00:09:27,339 --> 00:09:33,009 So estimates for, sorry, estimates for how many people get musical chills range 199 00:09:33,009 --> 00:09:38,009 from anywhere from about 45% to 85%, which is quite a wide spread, isn't it? 200 00:09:38,329 --> 00:09:41,479 Mm. So the honest answer is it varies a lot from person to person. 201 00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:45,489 Jen: So what's interesting is what it predicts, I guess. 202 00:09:45,509 --> 00:09:51,239 It's less about being a sensitive, emotional person, and more 203 00:09:51,239 --> 00:09:54,999 about how actively your mind engages with what you're hearing. 204 00:09:55,249 --> 00:10:00,049 So people who le- really like lean in, who are anticipating the 205 00:10:00,049 --> 00:10:04,829 next note, picturing things, get more, get chills more reliably. 206 00:10:04,839 --> 00:10:09,709 Um, and musicians tend to get them more than non-musicians. 207 00:10:09,779 --> 00:10:12,879 Jamie: So it's the people leaning forward predicting the song, not the 208 00:10:12,879 --> 00:10:15,259 people quietly welling up in the corner. 209 00:10:15,659 --> 00:10:18,099 The chills are more of a thinking thing than a feeling thing. 210 00:10:18,169 --> 00:10:18,639 Jen: Mm. 211 00:10:18,719 --> 00:10:22,409 Chris: And that's actually a really good bridge to the surprise I flagged 212 00:10:22,409 --> 00:10:24,099 at the start about the shivery feeling. 213 00:10:24,299 --> 00:10:25,772 And you'll wanna think we planned this and actually structured- 214 00:10:25,772 --> 00:10:26,529 these podcasts, wouldn't you? 215 00:10:27,229 --> 00:10:30,879 Um, so when researchers actually strap people to skin sensors, 216 00:10:30,879 --> 00:10:32,379 which sounds a bit harsh- 217 00:10:32,379 --> 00:10:33,829 Jen: It sounds a bit barbaric, to be 218 00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:34,029 honest 219 00:10:34,379 --> 00:10:34,399 Chris: Yeah. 220 00:10:34,399 --> 00:10:35,209 I'm pretty sure it's voluntary. 221 00:10:35,209 --> 00:10:37,229 You know, they- … they did sign up to this, this kind of test. 222 00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:41,619 Um, anyway, it picks up the real muscle response when they do this, and only 223 00:10:41,619 --> 00:10:45,339 about a third of the goosebumps that people report feeling show up as an 224 00:10:45,419 --> 00:10:47,199 actual physical reaction on the skin. 225 00:10:48,169 --> 00:10:48,489 Jamie: Hang on. 226 00:10:48,489 --> 00:10:51,609 So most of the time that I think I've got goosebumps, I 227 00:10:51,609 --> 00:10:52,849 haven't actually got goosebumps. 228 00:10:52,849 --> 00:10:54,539 It's my brain telling me I've got goosebumps. 229 00:10:55,569 --> 00:10:58,379 Jen: Mm. Yeah, for a good chunk of time, yes. 230 00:10:58,619 --> 00:11:05,249 So the shivery chill you feel and the literal muscle contraction seem to be 231 00:11:05,249 --> 00:11:09,809 two separate events that often travel together, but they don't have to. 232 00:11:09,809 --> 00:11:13,569 So you can clearly feel one- Mm … without measurably having the other. 233 00:11:13,759 --> 00:11:14,399 Chris: Absolutely. 234 00:11:14,729 --> 00:11:16,529 And there's another myth worth busting here. 235 00:11:16,669 --> 00:11:17,399 We haven't bust many myths 236 00:11:17,399 --> 00:11:18,459 today, have we? 237 00:11:18,459 --> 00:11:18,569 Jen: No, you haven't. 238 00:11:18,579 --> 00:11:18,869 So, yeah. 239 00:11:18,879 --> 00:11:22,919 Chris: Um, so people assume that the chills you get, the kind of the, 240 00:11:23,119 --> 00:11:24,789 the shivery chills, needed novelty- 241 00:11:24,929 --> 00:11:25,119 Mm 242 00:11:25,139 --> 00:11:28,059 … and that a song would kind of stop giving you them once it got familiar. 243 00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:32,339 But the, there was a study in 2024 that tested that head on, and it found 244 00:11:32,339 --> 00:11:37,239 that familiar music kept triggering the response, and it held up over repeated 245 00:11:37,239 --> 00:11:38,699 listens, so it kinda didn't fade off. 246 00:11:39,199 --> 00:11:42,509 Jen: Which matches Jamie's point about leading in, and honestly 247 00:11:42,509 --> 00:11:46,579 matches my own experience, like the wedding song I talked about earlier. 248 00:11:46,689 --> 00:11:47,899 Chris: And they still need to sing it for us- Yeah 249 00:11:49,689 --> 00:11:50,002 … it's only fair. 250 00:11:50,002 --> 00:11:50,489 Jen: Google it. 251 00:11:50,489 --> 00:11:51,289 It's I'm Father of the 252 00:11:51,289 --> 00:11:51,639 Bride. 253 00:11:51,639 --> 00:11:51,869 Chris: Where, where's Matt? 254 00:11:51,869 --> 00:11:51,909 Where's Matt? 255 00:11:51,909 --> 00:11:54,119 Well, he, he'd definitely get involved and sing, wouldn't he? 256 00:11:54,149 --> 00:11:54,939 Jen: Yeah, he would. 257 00:11:55,809 --> 00:11:57,759 He'd play a, a violin, I'm sure. 258 00:11:58,569 --> 00:12:03,169 Um, but we need to be straight here, uh, that the science isn't all settled. 259 00:12:03,169 --> 00:12:08,309 So the popular idea that goosebumps are a clean readout of being deeply moved has 260 00:12:08,309 --> 00:12:13,079 been complicated by recent work because the measured response doesn't reliably 261 00:12:13,089 --> 00:12:15,499 track how moved people say they feel. 262 00:12:15,859 --> 00:12:18,609 Jamie: I find that weird- weirdly freeing, actually. 263 00:12:18,618 --> 00:12:19,959 Mm. There's nothing to fix here. 264 00:12:20,049 --> 00:12:22,329 It's not a glitch you have to train out of your body. 265 00:12:22,368 --> 00:12:23,739 Jen: No- True … not at all. 266 00:12:23,739 --> 00:12:27,239 It's, it's really just like a readout of your nervous system doing 267 00:12:27,239 --> 00:12:31,159 its thing, and there's, there's a gentle feelgood footnote to it. 268 00:12:31,379 --> 00:12:36,469 And survey data that finds that, it's found that people who get goosebump 269 00:12:36,469 --> 00:12:42,859 moments at least monthly are a little more likely to say they find life worth 270 00:12:42,889 --> 00:12:47,593 living than people who rarely get them If you don't get them, though, don't panic. 271 00:12:47,603 --> 00:12:47,623 Chris: Yeah, 272 00:12:48,593 --> 00:12:48,883 definitely. 273 00:12:48,953 --> 00:12:51,773 And the, the large caveat other than that one being that this is a 274 00:12:51,773 --> 00:12:53,753 correlation, so it's not cause and effect. 275 00:12:54,003 --> 00:12:57,783 So the more likely reading is that people with kind of rich, engaged, 276 00:12:57,783 --> 00:13:01,183 emotional lives simply stumble into more kind of goosebump-worthy 277 00:13:01,183 --> 00:13:04,183 episodes rather than the bumps themselves topping up your wellbeing. 278 00:13:04,243 --> 00:13:04,593 Jen: Mm. 279 00:13:04,623 --> 00:13:05,153 Jamie: Fair enough. 280 00:13:05,263 --> 00:13:08,343 So is there ever a version of this that's worth actually paying attention to? 281 00:13:08,553 --> 00:13:09,863 Chris: I'd say mostly no. 282 00:13:09,903 --> 00:13:14,053 So goosebumps by and large are harmless in the v- majority of cases, but 283 00:13:14,283 --> 00:13:15,813 I will do my Captain Sensible bit- 284 00:13:15,963 --> 00:13:16,293 Jen: As always 285 00:13:16,293 --> 00:13:18,993 … Chris: and say that, absolutely, someone has to do it- Mm-hmm … um, 286 00:13:19,023 --> 00:13:23,143 that if goosebumps keep turning up persistently for no particular reason, 287 00:13:23,163 --> 00:13:27,163 or they're down one side of the body or along with other symptoms that 288 00:13:27,173 --> 00:13:30,993 don't feel quite right, that is worth a quick mention to the doctor, isn't it? 289 00:13:31,573 --> 00:13:36,653 Um, because the reflex can occasionally tag along with other things 290 00:13:36,693 --> 00:13:37,803 going on with the nervous system. 291 00:13:37,883 --> 00:13:40,583 So it is a check, though, not a cause for panic. 292 00:13:41,073 --> 00:13:41,363 Jen: Yeah. 293 00:13:41,613 --> 00:13:42,943 Thank you, Captain Sensible. 294 00:13:43,643 --> 00:13:47,683 So this brings us right back around to where we started. 295 00:13:47,933 --> 00:13:52,213 Jamie: So go on then, cold shower, dark room, and the best bit of a song. 296 00:13:52,223 --> 00:13:53,603 Why do we get goosebumps? 297 00:13:53,993 --> 00:13:58,253 Jen: So we get goosebumps because your fight or flight system runs a 298 00:13:58,253 --> 00:14:04,063 whole row of responses in one circuit, and tiny muscles tug each hair 299 00:14:04,173 --> 00:14:06,533 upright whenever that circuit fires. 300 00:14:06,783 --> 00:14:11,663 So whether the trigger is cold, fear, or a beautiful piece of music. 301 00:14:13,913 --> 00:14:17,023 Um, and in a furry animal that traps warmth, puffs them up to be bigger. 302 00:14:17,293 --> 00:14:21,533 In us, it's the visible edge of a much larger reaction. 303 00:14:21,833 --> 00:14:25,083 Chris: And it's not the do-nothing reflex that people often assume. 304 00:14:25,183 --> 00:14:28,553 It's wired in right next to the cells that grow your hair, and the chill 305 00:14:28,553 --> 00:14:31,773 you feel and the bumps themselves are quietly separate events. 306 00:14:32,303 --> 00:14:35,433 Jamie: So the next time a song sends the wave down your arms, 307 00:14:35,583 --> 00:14:36,803 that isn't you being soft- 308 00:14:36,813 --> 00:14:37,073 Jen: Mm-hmm 309 00:14:37,093 --> 00:14:40,443 … Jamie: that's your brain leaning into what it's hearing, which turns out to 310 00:14:40,443 --> 00:14:43,833 be the very thing that predicts who gets the chills in the first place. 311 00:14:44,413 --> 00:14:47,273 Jen: Which is a rather nice thing to know about yourself 312 00:14:47,343 --> 00:14:47,603 Chris: It is 313 00:14:48,243 --> 00:14:50,673 Jen: So that's why we get goosebumps. 314 00:14:50,923 --> 00:14:52,103 That's it for this week. 315 00:14:52,113 --> 00:14:54,243 Make sure you hit that subscribe button. 316 00:14:54,243 --> 00:14:58,413 We're unpacking the science behind everyday questions each, each week. 317 00:14:58,723 --> 00:15:02,233 Tell us in the comments what you'd like us to dig into next. 318 00:15:02,563 --> 00:15:04,373 Thanks so much for geeking out with us. 319 00:15:04,373 --> 00:15:05,933 But for now, that's it from me. 320 00:15:06,023 --> 00:15:06,723 That's it from me. 321 00:15:06,723 --> 00:15:07,763 And that's it from me. 322 00:15:07,913 --> 00:15:08,633 Bye for now