I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.

[00:00:39] Trisha: Hi there everyone, I'm Trisha Carter, an organizational psychologist and explorer of cultural intelligence. I'm on a quest to discover what enables us to see things from different perspectives, especially different cultural perspectives, and why sometimes it's easier than others to experience those moments of awareness, the shifts in thinking. As those of you who have listened to some of our earlier episodes will be aware, cultural intelligence, CQ, the capability to be effective in situations of diversity, is made up of four areas.

[00:01:14] Trisha: Motivational, the drive, Cognitive, the knowledge. Metacognitive, the strategy. And behavioral, the action. And all four of these capabilities can help us operate effectively in situations of diversity. In this podcast, we focus more on the metacognitive aspect, where we think about our thinking. The CQ Strategy.

[00:01:37] Trisha: Today's guest is a friend of a good friend. If you listened to Bridget Romanes' episode, you would have heard her shift in perspective on the critical nature of relationships and her experience of building strong and lasting friendships while working at APEC. One of those dear friends she referenced was Sheikh Fadilah Ahmad.

[00:01:58] Trisha: Did I pronounce the name correctly?

[00:02:00] Fadilah: Fantastic.

[00:02:01] Trisha: Thank you. He is from Brunei, Darussalam. Fadilah has enjoyed an impressive career spanning 30 years as a diplomat. In addition to his time at APEC, he served his country as ambassador to Cambodia at the UN and New York and as permanent secretary to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade.

[00:02:21] Trisha: Over the years, he has lived in Singapore, Australia, Cambodia, and New York, and traveled extensively to many other countries. Since his "retirement", and I'm putting that retirement in quotation marks. He has opened a coffee shop and switched to coffee diplomacy, building bridges in the coffee world, as well as mentoring young entrepreneurs.

[00:02:44] Trisha: He's twice been listed in the top 50 Brunei inspiring icons. So we have a lot of shifts to unpack in this conversation today. Welcome. And thank you for giving us your time Fadilah.

[00:02:56] Fadilah: Hi, Trisha. Lovely to meet you.

[00:02:58] Trisha: Wonderful to meet you too. And it was great that Bridget almost pushed us together and saying, you should interview him.

[00:03:05] Fadilah: Thank you very much for having me.

[00:03:07] Trisha: It's wonderful to have you here. So I want to go into all of those shifts and learn about all your thinking and your experiences. But first the questions we ask all of our guests, what is a culture other than the culture you grew up in that you have learned to love and appreciate?

[00:03:24] Fadilah: I grew up basically in a Islamic faith setting. And one of the things that my, both my parents have taught me respect, the values of respect and tolerance. Basically, respecting others, respecting people from different faiths, and being tolerant about the difference between us.

[00:03:43] Fadilah: And, one of the interesting that I found as well that I was studying in an independent school in Brunei at the time, and my classmates were all from different faiths, Buddhists Christians, Hindus and even the local diocese as well. And one of the things that I was exposed to at a young age was visiting them on holidays and traditions and festivities.

[00:04:06] Fadilah: So that I realized was I had that kind of foundation about cultural shift at a very young age.

[00:04:13] Fadilah: And when I started working at APEC Secretariat with Bridget back in 1996. I felt that I was exposed to those kind of values as well, and that I have to use those kind of values that I learned when I was young to adapt to cultural diversity.

[00:04:29] Fadilah: So I, I never had problem going to a dinner, being granted for dinners and and they would my host will adapt to, my food requirement, for instance, and in diplomacy, we also do the same for them as well. So especially when you invite your guests, we check whether they have their dietary requirements and such.

[00:04:47] Fadilah: So it becomes such a practical thing and it doesn't stop you from networking and meeting. So it, it takes a kind of environment that adaptability is such a, you adapt quite easily as well because of, how I I grew up and the kind of thing that, you know, I lived when I was young.

[00:05:02] Trisha: I'm wondering, is a diplomat allowed to say they had a favourite place? Or, have you got to go, well they were all special places to me.

[00:05:11] Fadilah: I see it, being a diplomat, you have to be a good soldier, meaning that you need to be prepared to wherever you go. Some people would love places like London and Paris because of, flair city, in a sense but you get to send the places as well. But I, honestly, I enjoyed wherever I was, posted in Singapore, Cambodia, even Australia.

[00:05:32] Fadilah: And to say that you have a favorite place I always create something beautiful wherever I live,

[00:05:39] Fadilah: Because I believe that it's up to us to create beauty in in wherever you're present.

[00:05:44] Trisha: Whatever spot.

[00:05:45] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:05:46] Fadilah: Whatever spot, yeah,

[00:05:47] Trisha: I can imagine there would have been some climate differences from some of those, you know, you were talking about Canberra in Australia.

[00:05:54] Fadilah: Okay. Yeah. That's for sure. Especially in the winter, good memories though.

[00:05:58] Trisha: Can you tell me about a time you might've experienced a shift, you know, when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?

[00:06:05] Fadilah: My first day at the Secretariat We had lunch and all the because we all come from different countries and different backgrounds, and different, work management I think as well, so that I when we had lunch and we all have different food as well, and I finally realized that, I have to sit down with them in view of their cultural differences as well, because this is where you're part of being diplomat and also.

[00:06:37] Fadilah: Part in trying to treat a teamwork, the diversity, the cultural diversity. And I started realizing, no, you, this is where I could not just hold back. Look, I'm from Brunei I don't, do this or, but end of day was very open-minded about, adapting to a different situation.

[00:06:54] Fadilah: So I was very lucky in that sense. And I, it all was cultural shape, but I didn't find it. Difficult or challenging. I felt that, oh, I know this is going on, so I'm good with it.

[00:07:08] Trisha: Yeah. So it was a shift you moved comfortably into them

[00:07:11] Trisha: effectively it's similar to Bridget's experience, although she did say that for her, it was a sort of a recognition that, relationships are key, whereas it feels like it might have been something that you had relatively early on in your experience there.

[00:07:26] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:07:27] Fadilah: And also I had a three years living experience when I did my undergrads in the uK. So, so those are my early preparation as well. And I do have a family relation in Saudi Arabia, because my father, my grandfather's from Saudi Arabia. So when I was studying in UK, every winter I would go down to Jindal and meet the family.

[00:07:49] Fadilah: There's a different cultural shift as well.

[00:07:50] Trisha: Oh, that would have been a shift.

[00:07:52] Fadilah: yes. And, but so I, we come to adapt. Myself that look wherever I want to go, I will able to shift quickly and adapt to where I am. And I still visit Saudi Arabia once in a while because my, I have a hundred cousins there. And and it's nice to just catch up with everybody.

[00:08:12] Fadilah: And I'm quite familiar with the places as well.

[00:08:15] Trisha: Do you ever have to remind yourself, where you are in terms of thinking just whether it's, you know, ways of operating that, that perhaps you have to remember to be in one place?

[00:08:27] Fadilah: Yes. I think like whenever you're in Cambodia, it's very, very cultural focus as well.

[00:08:32] Fadilah: Especially when you meet people, there are some do's or don'ts as well, which I pick up as well. But yeah, they're quite a close knit s family as well. So you need to understand especially when you address women or men in a sense of there are ways of doing it without them being offended.

[00:08:49] Fadilah: So those are important to know as well. So I think as a former diplomat, I picked it up when I was there.

[00:08:56] Trisha: And I do think some people do it more naturally than others the switching between ways of operating. But I think also that there's an element of learning to it as well. The countries and cultures you've lived in would have brought some challenges. And as a diplomat, the challenges become critical.

[00:09:13] Trisha: You get something wrong and you could be starting an international incident.

[00:09:18] Fadilah: Can I just share with you, Trisha, one of my strengths as well is a people's person. I don't know. I do meet officials, but I also like to meet people on the street for when I was in, in Cambodia, I happened to go to Siem Reap and in Siem Reap, you can visit the temples Angkor Wat, but I befriend locals at the local gym and they invited me on a cycling expedition.

And they don't know who I am. I just told them I'm a clerk at the embassy. But when they saw my photo on the video,

[00:09:50] Fadilah: they said, No, you're somebody else, you but I think the whole idea of, I just want to feel, what the locals do. So on Saturday, we will go riding maybe 35 kilometers. Off the beaten track just going to villages will bring us little biscuits and sweets to give to, kids when we meet, in the village or just goodwill. But I really enjoyed that because I've seen places that I've never been. I'm still something on your tourist trail as well.

[00:10:15] Fadilah: So I was very lucky to get to know a few people there. So I enjoyed, and from there I learned more about the cultural. The kind of food they eat, we could have, a local, like a noodle coconut noodle broth, and no soup at one of the stops as well, or coconut water. But the whole idea is to embrace your, your interactions with local to get to understand the country better.

[00:10:40] Fadilah: I would do that as well, because like now I just got back from Surabaya And I did five town travel for eight days. So we spent from 1, 500 kilometers. I've got a driver and a car, but I would stop at coffee shops, like cafes. Introduce myself, from Brunei and I do just so curious they know you're a tourist, but the fact that I know coffee, they're just so curious to get to know your story is how you try to find out more from them.

[00:11:12] Fadilah: So I created the kind of friendship. Anyone I meet in my travel. And they are so into solar. I met two years ago and I came to visit a coffee roastery, because I wanted to visit him because these are really important for me knowing people behind the coffee industry, what are the main, business interests and where we can find synergies.

[00:11:35] Fadilah: But you realize you're speaking the same language. So this is where the coffee diplomacy comes in. Choosing myself from Brunei and getting to know the Indonesian coffee industry as well. So this is a wonderful learning experience as well

[00:11:49] Fadilah: Through, through people.

[00:11:51] Trisha: yeah. So we've jumped into the coffee story. So I'm going to take you back to the why you did that, because I think that's a great shift. And so it is, at this point, you had been an ambassador, you had represented your country at the UN you'd gone back home, I think, and been working within, the Department of Foreign Affairs, which we all know is.

[00:12:14] Trisha: hard work. And then at some point you decide you're going to switch and you're going to move away from diplomacy and you're going to go into coffee.

[00:12:26] Trisha: So tell us about that switch. What, what was going on in your head?

[00:12:29] Fadilah: I did my masters at Australian National University in Canberra, 2007. After finishing my exam the year after, I went down to Sydney and, just for a holiday, like after the exam and I went to visit some Brunei students living in Brunswick. So I went down to Pitt Street, just, checking out the city, and I bumped into the Sydney coffee school there.

[00:12:52] Fadilah: And it got me so curious. I said, why don't I do this course? It's a two day barista course, and I'm always curious what makes a good cup of joe. And I am also, and also I want to like, because when you go to cafe, you just drink coffee. But I just want to learn the tricks of the trade as well.

[00:13:11] Fadilah: But I really enjoyed the two days course, because I come out of it. Now, when I go to cafe, they cannot lie. I knew what they're doing, this one, but I wanted to come back to Brunei, apart from my master's with a new skills,

[00:13:24] Fadilah: The coffee skill. And I knew that I'm going to Ambassador and and I would host events. So I said, I would use this coffee skill when I brew coffee to my, for my guests, instead of, like a barista in a cafe. So it becomes one of my skills as a diplomat. I said, so I will use that. So I came back to Brunei and I went back to the ministry to work again.

[00:13:46] Fadilah: I didn't touch I didn't develop further, but everytime I traveled to Singapore, UK to Middle East, I will go to a to a coffee shop and learn more. I talk to the barista, just, just have a chat with them. And one of the things that I realized that I pick up a lot of Australia coffee and just the standards, I mean, you you're in Sydney when you go to a cafe, you get to know the owner, the guy behind the bar and the first day and after a week you start talking about the weather and after the third week you talk about family, and I said, this is such a good skills and doing business, because you get the one off of your customer, you get to know them.

[00:14:24] Fadilah: I wish I've done this, for my cafe. When I'm in cafe I'll greet my customer, even strangers and get to know them. So it really draws people to you as well, which is which I think is important Australian, hospitality with that pickup as well. So I came back to Brunei, didn't touch coffee.

[00:14:43] Fadilah: as a business, but when I retired, I was looking for something to do. I said to myself after 30 years, I don't want to do, I don't want to work in office and I want to pick up something, which I've never done. I want a new learning curve at 55 years old, a new learning curve. And I said, my God, what happened if I fail?

[00:15:01] Fadilah: So I believe that don't worry with failure. You just have to try.

[00:15:05] Fadilah: The sad thing is you're not trying at all.

[00:15:07] Fadilah: So I redesigned one of my room at my home because the whole intention was, I just want to have some company to come drop by, have a cup of coffee and go, and I started baking. I've been baking during my diplomatic life as well as, for afternoon tea or when we host dinner, me and my wife will be a tag team.

[00:15:29] Fadilah: She will do the starter and the mains, I will do dessert and coffee.

[00:15:33] Fadilah: So I will go to the kitchen while she entertain the guests.

[00:15:36] Fadilah: So we had this kind of, this kind of tag team. And I found that yeah.

[00:15:40] Trisha: I just wanted to interrupt and say and I will put the links to your cafe in the show notes because if anybody just wants to go there and drool over the pictures of cakes you can do that.

[00:15:52] Fadilah: Thank you. Yeah, definitely.

[00:15:53] Trisha: you know, I'm actually salivating now as I'm just remembering them. um, one of the things that is, that I read about um, one of your blogs was about your mother and how your mother was famous for her cakes.

[00:16:06] Trisha: And when I asked Fadilah about that before listeners, he referred to her as the Mary Berry of Brunei. So she was the famous, What is, what is the sort of a chef who makes a pastry chef? Is that, Is that the term?

[00:16:20] Fadilah: Yeah, she's also a cook and a chef because

[00:16:22] Trisha: And she had a cooking show on TV.

[00:16:25] Fadilah: she, yeah, she had a cooking show for 10 years and it was shown in Singapore and Malaysia. Yeah. And I was doing my O levels at the time I was helping out, just, assisting her moving things to the studio and she would ask me to do food testing in the kitchen. So I found it that I looked back that I had this kind of, interaction with her at a young age, and when I do baking, she would try my cakes as well and my cookies and she really liked it, but But I never had a one on one class with her.

[00:16:54] Fadilah: So I put myself first and so when I started the, so my mother was a good, was a big influence on me. And my dad, of course, entrepreneur. And I said, maybe I should go into entrepreneurship, just do, just sell coffees and some bakes. And when I started the cafe, the best burnt cheesecake was the global, freeze.

[00:17:15] Fadilah: Everyone's talking about it. I was making it, and I joined a few pop ups and I sold out, maybe just, maybe 24 slices and after that, I don't have a shop. So people are asking me, where do you sell? Do you? I said, no. So I started from home and I started from home and the kitchen was only like five steps away.

[00:17:32] Fadilah: So it was nice and I was doing alone, but I didn't realize that people start to come in and they're just curious, who was this, who's this guy and why is he doing coffee?

[00:17:43] Trisha: so did the baking start before the coffee?

[00:17:46] Fadilah: Together.

[00:17:47] Trisha: OK. They have to go together, the coffee and the cake.

[00:17:50] Fadilah: because, yeah, because I learned about coffee pairing.

[00:17:54] Fadilah: Burnt cheesecake, we do well with either a latte or a pour over coffee, which is without any milk. Those are some things that I pick up as well. And and I did certification courses in Kuala Lumpur. From a New York based organization called Specialty Coffee Association.

[00:18:10] Fadilah: It was three, three months before the lockdown of COVID 2020. I had my first challenge because all shops have to close down.

[00:18:19] Fadilah: But we were lucky because our minister of health said that cafes can operate, but through the window.

[00:18:25] Fadilah: So we have, health protocol and, things like this so it becomes challenging. But it was such a good learning curve because of, oh my God, there goes my investment.

[00:18:32] Fadilah: But strange enough, everybody was so afraid to go out. my phone was buzzing, people want to eat. And this is an interesting story, Trisha, because I got involved in, stories of family because we have students coming back from Australia, coming back all UK, they are good quarantine in the hotel.

[00:18:51] Trisha: Of course, yeah.

[00:18:52] Fadilah: they, they messaged me, Uncle Dil, can you send some gifts to my mom and can you write a message of, thank your mom for being there for us. And I was really involved in, family stories. I was really touched. And I said, I didn't like that. When you, I'm just selling coffee.

[00:19:10] Fadilah: I. I'm selling, I found it's such an important work for me, extending family relationships. And, and I also had friends like, customers from Australia, Philippine, Singapore buying cakes for their friends Brunei.

[00:19:25] Fadilah: So I had orders from abroad as well. I said, are you Dil? That's what they called me.

[00:19:29] Fadilah: Are you Dil? I said my, I have a long friend in Brunei who's a Buddhist kind of man, he send some cake with food and maybe you can get a bouquet. I'll pay everything and gimme a link. I'll pay on credit card.

[00:19:39] Trisha: What a lovely thing.

[00:19:41] Fadilah: I was building on to that business in a different light, even though it was a lockdown, it was a challenge.

[00:19:48] Fadilah: But I developed different because, and I had this kind experience creating, when you are event, but, flowers. Maybe cakes me. So I knew this kind of service. So I used this kind of to develop new business for me situation, but I really love that situation because what the children are feeling with the parents as well. so when the dad came, he said, Oh, your daughter's sent you a lovely card. I had cards. Cards from, Handicap Association, this empty card. I would buy from them. I would send written the what kind of, messages they want. Yeah. So I was developing a different kind of service apart from doing coffee and cake.

[00:20:25] Trisha: Much more personal.

[00:20:26] Fadilah: I feel really good, you know, in that sense, of my mom was personal and I and I said, this is really interesting. You know, before I started coffee, I was joining a lot of pop ups as well. And well, I don't know where to start. I don't know what to do. and I would get two young girls who just graduated, was looking for a job. We would bake, We would bake the whole thing on Saturday. Having fun and Sunday we'll get our little trays and go to a little cafe and do a pop up and the whole day we'll be so tired and Monday we just take the day off and just rest. but the girls that I I had with me, we are still good friends now

[00:21:05] Trisha: Oh, that's lovely.

[00:21:06] Fadilah: they work in a bank, but we had good memories of working together and, you know, I enjoyed the love that we do. So so you see. After I started my retirement, I was doing different things to which I felt, I look back, I totally enjoy I said, I'm glad I chose this path.

[00:21:25] Trisha: Yeah, exactly. It's, So many people, when they get to that stage in their fifties and they're thinking, what's next? What do I do? How do I make the jump into the next stage of life? Whatever that might be. And so some people have to do a lot of soul searching to discover that thing, but it feels like your thing had been sitting there ever since that training course in Sydney. And you'd probably, I mean, I'm sure it had, it had surfaced in all your interactions as a diplomat, because Coffee would have been a source of for any New Zealand diplomats, any Australian diplomats

[00:22:01] Fadilah: definitely. Definitely.

[00:22:02] Trisha: and lots of others around the world.

[00:22:04] Fadilah: but, Canberra changed me a lot about. hospitality, And I think the Australian, and New Zealand has very good, global standard, especially when you go to cafe. So, so I picked it up as well, you know, what I do now.

[00:22:16] Fadilah: So public relation meeting, customers are very important, which I also train my staff. You just have to say hello to anybody because, uh, you end up, you know, they become your friends.

[00:22:25] Trisha: But that would have been a thing as a diplomat as well. I mean, you would have been, your staff in the embassy, your staff at the UN, they would have been, you would have, those were skills and, values, if you like, that you would have been training them with as well, I imagine.

[00:22:41] Fadilah: definitely.

[00:22:43] Trisha: Yeah. That, That other focus, that thinking about what people need and what people wanting.

[00:22:49] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:22:50] Fadilah: Like now, I've been working with the, Brunei Tourism Authority, I mean, department. We have come up with a Basically, I was helping them, like, I said, you know, we need to have a guide on, you know, cafes in Brunei, because we have visitors from Melbourne, visitors from Singapore And they were asking, you know, where are some of the good cafes I want to try? So what I've designed was basically as a center point.

[00:23:13] Fadilah: So basically if you stay you know, near the mosque or near Radisson Hotel, what are the cafes around it?

[00:23:19] Fadilah: So if people feel

[00:23:20] Trisha: Yes. Depending on the quality of the cafe

[00:23:22] Fadilah: hotel to stay on. Yeah, yeah, so, so we created, a guide now, and we, I need a pen to, update it every six months or the number of cafes in Brunei has grown much now, Trisha, because why I started cafe, basically, I, I noticed that a lot of, you know, Bruneians who studied in Australia, UK, and Canada come back.

[00:23:42] Fadilah: They won't have this kind of, You know, cafe culture, when you go to Melbourne, you can find people catching up. And, so I said, no, I like that. And I, I want to kind of feel, cause I still miss my time in, in Australia. I mean, I love Sydney. I love Melbourne. And I would sit down at Potts Point suburb, you know, cafe, just watch the world pass by. so I said, I want, to have that. So. in the home cafe, which is a starting point. And because I have no business background. I have no. measurement skills apart from my work, but I use that kind of opportunity as my stepping stone because during COVID because of, you know, we cannot, be together in one room.

[00:24:21] Fadilah: I decided to invest on iPad and making all the orders online. So my bakers and my barista and myself just moved to each other apart from, so there'll be any one or two people, working at the den. Because of the transmission. so you, you learn to be creative, about solutions, you learn to be creative about adaptability.

[00:24:41] Trisha: And then another factor that you've done is thinking about others setting up in business as well. And I understand that you're mentoring or, you know, have a process for helping other entrepreneurs.

[00:24:54] Fadilah: Yeah. during, during the COVID, time we had online forums.

[00:24:59] Fadilah: So I did a few, entrepreneurship, basically I found I hit 800,

[00:25:05] Trisha: Oh, my goodness. That was a big one.

[00:25:07] Fadilah: It was a public forum of 800 people. and 70 percent of them were teachers and they were looking for something to do, like, what if I quit my teaching job And go to apprenticeship? I was helping them to start something uh, something new or try to inspire them. If you think you're quite passionate about it,

[00:25:25] Fadilah: you could try.

[00:25:26] Fadilah: And how to do markets on social media, how to promote your business.

[00:25:30] Fadilah: And I think pop up making your presence known and making sure that your customer meet you apart from online, you know, meet you in person as well. I'm very big on transparency. I show my face on social media on LinkedIn because I felt networking connecting people is very important because, people can meet you and talk to you, or, they give you feedback or want to work with you in that sense.

[00:25:52] Fadilah: And also apart from entrepreneurship, I was involved in a few other social causes as well. Mental health was a big issue during COVID because, we're talking about, recurring mental meltdown and, trying to adapt with situations. So I work with the Department of Psychiatry at our local hospital.

[00:26:11] Fadilah: They would be host the World Mental Health Day. And we gave the idea that why don't they invite me. Because, mental health is such a taboo subject, and if you do a mental health exhibition about, depression and emotional trauma, nobody want to come. So, What I did, I socialized it, I have a little coffee stand, some bakes, and we created little corners where people can just sit down with a counselor as if they're having coffee with friends.

[00:26:37] Trisha: Oh wow.

[00:26:38] Trisha: Yeah.

[00:26:39] Fadilah: we, removed the, social stigma. It was full of people. Doctors came down, and they were just interested to see me, and the Minister of Health was there as well. But it was such a success that, people can just pass by, look at the exhibition, or just have a chat with a counsellor without feeling, they are a patient,

[00:26:59] Fadilah: so, it was very good. And the other thing that was involved was, being a spokesperson for. Breast cancer awareness. They have chosen a man for this because they want to reach out for more for men to understand, because, in Asian society, a lot of men would think it's a gender issue for women, so they reach out to when you speak up on breast cancer, you know, I also lost some of my schoolmates and some family.

[00:27:28] Fadilah: I want to do this because I thought it was quite close to me as well. And so I, my plan was making sure that men would pick up either information about breast cancer and understanding how to support either their spouse or their family members about, coping with the disease.

[00:27:45] Fadilah: I felt it was such an important message to share, but having a man to speak up with a woman or a patient. So those are the things that, and I was so involved with men's health forum because, the issue is. Men doesn't speak a lot about health issues. So we want men to start talking about it.

[00:28:02] Fadilah: If they're not well, and see a doctor or seek out, uh, some help. So these are, so apart from doing business, I am involved all these different social causes as well

[00:28:13] Trisha: And is that because you are a bit well known?

[00:28:15] Fadilah: From the coffee.

[00:28:16] Trisha: From the coffee. Wow. Not from not from the diplomacy not from being the ambassador.

[00:28:23] Fadilah: It may be, I don't know,but no, I think, I think more, no, Trisha, it's more from the coffee from the cafe.

[00:28:29] Trisha: And definitely the cafe would make you accessible. And the fact that, Oh, there's the cafe guy who spoke, who had those people in about mental health. And he's the one who talks about breast cancer and men's health. So yeah, I can see people would feel very comfortable. identifying, especially because, judging by the website, because I have not visited the cafe, but it looks like an amazing cafe with amazing food.

[00:28:57] Fadilah: Thank you.

[00:28:57] Trisha: So yeah.

[00:28:58] Fadilah: Thank you. And but I'm also now, I've also created some space for art exhibition in the cafe. So I have walls. I left it empty, but every two months I invite a local artist to just to show some of their work. Because I want if you're a regular to the cafe, you see different things every two months.

[00:29:19] Fadilah: It was just like sketches for countries, or I have a guy, he called it Empire of Icon. He will do lines but then it'll turn out to be like a cathedral, or a big building,

[00:29:30] Fadilah: or a Star Wars spaceship. It's so beautiful and The thing that came up for me was like, people think it's easy, but it's a lot of hard work, you appreciate art in that sense.

[00:29:41] Fadilah: Currently, I have a local teacher who does digital art. She will show about local honeybears, little anteaters, and she also shows a scene of a melee kitchen. Because kitchen are really important. Every society, There'll be food, love story. So she has that as well. And so I think I like the vibrancy and I want something that when people come to cafe, there's something to, they'll pick up either knowledge learning about something, an artist.

[00:30:12] Fadilah: So I'm very instrumental with that as well. Yeah.

[00:30:16] Trisha: So I'm curious, are these things you sit and think about and think that would be a good thing to do? Or are these things that just suddenly occur to you, at

[00:30:25] Fadilah: no, I had vision when I started to say. So after two years at the my home cafe, I moved to Brigham Montana. I have a shop for the past two years

[00:30:35] Fadilah: and

[00:30:36] Trisha: Dil's Cafe

[00:30:36] Fadilah: yeah, and actually. Trisha, I had anxiety issues when I moved. One was the cost.

[00:30:43] Fadilah: Two was what if I fail? I think everybody will go through this. So I should, so far it's been the cafe doing well.

[00:30:50] Trisha: How did you manage that fear of failure?

[00:30:53] Fadilah:

[00:30:55] Fadilah: Just do it, Just do it, you know,

[00:30:58] Fadilah: And uh, it was so funny because when I planned the renovation and the starting of the cafe, I was invited to go to Indonesia to be a judge for a coffee competition, And I left the opening of my cafe a week and went to Jakarta for a week.

[00:31:14] Trisha: you'd opened it one week and you left.

[00:31:17] Fadilah: I left it.

[00:31:18] Fadilah: And I said, Oh my God, I'm crazy. I'm crazy but I said, if I don't do this,

[00:31:23] Fadilah: I will never Have the opportunity again. But I had a wonderful time because the judges are all, it's for Indonesia, Indonesian coffee art battle. I'm the only Bruneian invited. And the first time I see my, photo up at the wall, the judges, I felt, you know, this cultural shift, this, you know, it's a different feel, you know, and uh, and I said, I'm so glad I came

[00:31:45] Fadilah: because I got to meet other judges from Indonesia, and this is where I met the World Champion roster, which I went to visit in Seoul, so I created new friendship.

[00:31:57] Trisha: That's lovely. Yeah. And you came back

[00:32:00] Fadilah: come back and focus on the cafe.

[00:32:02] Trisha: and the cafe was still going and successful.

[00:32:06] Fadilah: one of my strength is creating recipes. I've moved from gluten to gluten free.

[00:32:15] Fadilah: Vegan and then because of COVID we had issue with logistics. Sometime, you know, we rely on Australia for strawberries and shipment issues

[00:32:24] Fadilah: didn't turn up.

[00:32:25] Fadilah: No strawberries,

[00:32:26] Trisha: Supply chain.

[00:32:27] Fadilah: Yeah. And no cream cheese from Victoria,

[00:32:30] Trisha: Yep.

[00:32:31] Fadilah: milk, so that's the challenge we face. So I had to start thinking about doing different things and maybe not fruit based or But it's been fun because I use a lot of my childhood memories to create recipes. And I always I always thought when, cause when I live in Australia, I like how the Australian bake rustic, using just fruits, coffee, chocolate tea, or for instance to, to flavor the bake. And that doesn't have to look beautiful, but when you eat it, oh, this is nice. And have it coffee and tea. So I use those kind of, my memory in creating things as well. and, so

[00:33:11] Fadilah: my travel is also my inspiration.

[00:33:12] Fadilah: when I went to Taiwan, I pick up a lychee cheesecake with Osmanthus oolong tea.

[00:33:19] Fadilah: So things like that I come back and try it

[00:33:21] Trisha: So where does the, because listeners, let me tell you from the pictures anyway, these cakes look amazing. So where did the look come from? Where did you pick up the look?

[00:33:31] Fadilah: Travels

[00:33:32] Trisha: Okay.

[00:33:33] Fadilah: s. And you know, my, my experience living in Australia, because I always, I'm a big fan of rustic baking. And when I go to Melbourne, I would look out for the local bakeries,

[00:33:43] Fadilah: what do they bake in? Like There's a cafe called Tuscanon in Collingwood, they just focus on tarts. They will do like lemon meringue, you know, banoffee pie

[00:33:54] Fadilah: so I made some variation, maybe , which is a purple potato, or I could do use uh, an egg jam and uh, coconut pandan with, with coconut flakes on top. So I, I use the inspiration, but became my recipes.

[00:34:10] Trisha: Yeah, that's amazing. That is amazing. I think you've created a lot of inspiration for people. So you can shift listeners from careers in diplomacy to careers and passions in a very different field. Yeah, which is amazing and

[00:34:27] Fadilah: My. My take is, Trisha, I think, if anybody trying to do different things in life or moving from, from different careers, go with your passion flow. What you believe in, don't worry about failure because as a human being, we have emotions, we have anxiety issues, we are always fear of this unknown, but just go through it

[00:34:49] Fadilah: Because

[00:34:50] Fadilah: It's just always this fear of Trying to prevent you doing things, but trust me, I think when you just go through it and, things we might not go as good as you, if you thought, but use that as part of your, learning curve, learning new things as well so never be afraid because there's always, you see your brain is function such a way that you're able to create, new opportunities, whatever challenge you face through as well.

[00:35:17] Fadilah: So far, I think it's been five years since I retired. I really enjoyed what I do.

[00:35:23] Fadilah: And I would take time to travel and also to see how other businesses are doing as well. Uh, network, create friendships.

[00:35:30] Trisha: Coffee creates the friendship and the bridge to have a conversation anywhere.

[00:35:34] Fadilah: it's been wonderful.

[00:35:35] Trisha: That's so encouraging and uplifting. Thank you for that. And thank you for sharing your story. It's been lovely. I really appreciate it. So I'm going to put in the show notes. I will put your LinkedIn profile because that's often how people who are listening connect with people, but I'll also put The link to your, website.

[00:35:56] Trisha: And so if anybody is visiting Brunei, they can, they can pop in and visit you. And if anybody wants to invite you to visit their cafe, I don't know if I have any listeners who are cafe owners, but you know, who knows?

[00:36:08] Fadilah: I would love to, let me know.

[00:36:10] Trisha: I can imagine. So thank you so much. I really appreciate, your sharing with us, Fadilah And, , I think that people who perhaps are approaching retirement are now probably, um, thinking creatively about very different things that they could consider for their retirement. And as you said, The challenge is to keep learning. And, you also said earlier on, you'll only be sad about the things you haven't done. We will keep hold of both of those life lessons. And yeah, and we thank you very much. So thank you for your time.

[00:36:42] Fadilah: Thank you, Trisha Keep inspiring.

[00:36:45] Fadilah: Thank you.

[00:36:46] Fadilah: Okay.

[00:36:46] Trisha: Thank you. I

[00:36:48] Trisha: will do my best. thank you And thank you listeners. And please, don't forget to push the subscribe or follow button to make sure that you will receive the next episode of The Shift.