Alex

A quick note before we get started. This episode features a description of a suicide attempt. If you're struggling, help is available through the Samaritans. By calling 116123.

Luke Scott

I left off no signs that I was struggling. I was surrounded by people that I loved that loved me. Effectively, it was a farewell party to me, that they didn't know nothing about.

Alex

In this series, we hear stories about the role masculinity plays in today's world, as I tried to become a better version of myself every day. Join me and let's discover this together.

In this episode, we'll hear how a stranger's kindness saved a man in his darkest moment, and her opening up to friends and family helped him cope with profound loss. For as long as Luke can remember, he had wanted to join the army. He had his whole career mapped out. As soon as he turned 16, he left school and sent off his application. In no time at all. He was doing basic training. But 12 months in tragedy, stroke, he suffered a bad knee injury, and his lifelong dream came to an abrupt end. Luke went from job to job, he turned to alcohol. His life was spiralling out of control. Until one night in November 2018. When Luke made a decision,

Luke Scott

I was at a charity event at one of the local hotels, a village hotel for my friend's son, who's got quadruple cerebral palsy. And was having a really good time, there was probably 100 people, all of which I knew, because they were school friends. My wife or my girlfriend at the time was there. We did it a few times. And one of few things, had a really good night, smiling and laughing all the way through. I knew full well that I didn't want to wake up the next morning. My full intentions was was to end it all that night. I planned everything. I convinced myself that I was a burden to everybody. And that was the reason why I was doing what I plan to do. We had normal conversations, I didn't want anybody to know all I was supposed to be at work. The next day, I was a bus driver. I let off nurse signs that I was struggling. I was surrounded by people that I loved that loved me. Effectively, it was a farewell party to me that they didn't know nothing about. I left the hotel, or went by petrol station, got a few more beers, and continued my path and my walk. This was the early hours of the morning, five o'clock. It was really wet. But it was really really warm. It was like really humid. It was like a really nice morning, I knew this one would be coming up soon. And now we're also and my intention, or my plan was I was going to be gone. By the time the sun came up. Strangely, I rang one person. And it was in a split second decision that I just thought, I'm gonna ring I'm gonna let him know how I how I feel. And I'm gonna say goodbye, because I feel like he's a good friend. The reason I rang him was because he lived in Boston, which was about an hour's drive from me so far, if, if he says he's going to come, it won't be there in time. Anyway, I've already done what I wanted to do. It just seemed like I needed to catch up with him. I needed to speak to him. Within two rings, he answered the phone. The chances of him being up, were quite slim. But for some reason he was I remember saying to him. I'm feeling shit, lifestyle crap. There's nothing to live for. I'm going to go into it all. And I remember that, as drunk as I was, I remember that word for word. And he said, Oh, come on, buddy. What's happened? What? Let's have a chat about it. Because you're an awesome guy. And you've got so much to live for. And I just remember sort of not arguing, but having a drunken debate with him saying, but I don't because life's like shit. Because I've been through all this. And I've feel rubbish. And he said, Yeah, but you've been through all that. And you've come through and you're amazing. You know, you're great at what you do. You're the life and soul of the party. I said, but my party's over. Then they said the opposite and even started this is just the warm up. And he said, Right, I'm jumping in my car. And I didn't want him to have thought I'd convinced him not to. But actually it turns out he had jumped in his car he had set off. I'd put the phone down and he was speeding to sort of come and rescue me. So I'm speaking to one of the Humber bridge guys at the toll both. And this was the point where I probably started to slip him up. For kid started to disappear and my act was obviously coming down. And his supervisor comes over and goes, Oh, is everything okay? He goes, Oh, yeah, we're just having a chat. I said, Oh, yeah, me and me and Dave. I didn't even know his name, but it made Dave go Bucky is. That's when he started asking questions. And Is everything all right is you're not planning on jumping? I said, yeah, yeah, I think I am. I said, I started opening up to him, strangely, because I didn't know him. And I'd gone up there for a specific reason. And he said, No, please, we can sort this sort of out of nowhere. The police turned up. And they put me in the back of the police car.

Alex

What about your mate, your mate was coming from Boston, what happened to him?

Luke Scott

So I then got taken to mental health assessment unit, ended up staying in there for a week. And I later found out after I'd been discharged from now, after a short stir that he had driven all the way across and couldn't family. They actually admitted that he thought I'd done it because he couldn't get ahold of me. My phone was just ringing. He thought I'd maybe put my phone down on the side on the footpath and, and then jumped. And so he was worried he would massively massively worried. And my wife was coming to see me in hospital. She said he'd reached out to her to Oscar was. And I felt really guilty. Because I put him through that.

Alex

How did it make you feel when he's saying all these really nice things about you? Did you feel like did you feel like you deserved it? You didn't deserve it.

Luke Scott

I felt like he was just saying it to, to keep me going and which worked for 20 minutes, 20 minutes on the phone. And I suppose actually looking back, it worked a lot more than just those 20 minutes, because I'm still here. It felt really strange, because I didn't feel any of those things that he was telling me. I couldn't see that to be true. And he maybe thought it was a cry for help, which I suppose looking back it was I needed somebody to stop me. And I can only say that upon reflection. And I've said it a few times before because I have got a lot to live for. I watch the life and soul of the party. And everything he was saying was genuinely true. When that phone call,

Alex

in terms of all the experiences that you've gone through, it sounds like you didn't feel like you felt less of a man.

Luke Scott

Absolutely. I've always been in male oriented jobs, sort of the army. Various college courses I did was like railway engineering, car mechanics. Sort of, I've worked in vehicle dealerships. I've worked in vehicle rentals. I've worked on the docks, in heavy haulage. I've worked on the buses as a driver. And sort of speaking about problems wasn't an option. Even as a child, I'm the youngest of three boys. So we was a very male orientated household. And I did feel less of a man at the time, I think, because I didn't speak about it. And I didn't think that was the right thing to do. As a man, I didn't think we spoke about our emotions. I thought, okay, no one else can be feeling this way. Surely, surely, I'm the only person in the world, let alone the only man, I'm the only person in the world that feels like I've got the weight of the world on my shoulders. And I felt like I couldn't control my masculinity, despite being covered in tattoos almost had to to. I'm not a huge gym goer. So I don't really lift that much. I don't look massive. But I am physically fit. I've run a lot. I've always run a lot. Sort of despite my, my struggles. I've always kept relatively fit. I look. Yeah, look like a man. And I feel like a man. But at the time, I just didn't feel I didn't feel anything. Whether that was masculine or not. I just didn't feel that I should have felt that way. I thought it was totally abnormal for anybody to feel this way.

Alex

Isn't it interesting that when we're going through struggles as men, we think that we are unique and no one else is feeling the same way that we're feeling right now. And no one would understand because I felt like that before that I'm from a very similar background to you in like a working class background place called attend in Greater Manchester. And I mean, obviously things have calmed down a little bit. You know, there are there is progress being made in 2022 but 10 years ago, or even 1520 years ago, even being back at back at high so I'm 35 some a few years older than you but that from that candidate and you don't you don't reach out and let people know how you feeling especially your mates because I don't know about you, but you'd be worried if you told your mate something at school or whatever. You can rely on him hunt represent not to start telling other people, you've got the sense of regret then, because it wasn't a safe space.

Luke Scott

Yeah, that's a sense of trust, I suppose you lose that trust, if, before you've even said anything, you just feel that that trust will be broken. If you tell somebody something, and it goes further than you wanted it to. And the stigma around men, struggling, is still huge, there's still a lot, a lot of work to do. And let you say, even at school, say something to the wrong person, or you say something to someone who thinks the right person and you get a lot of get a lot of grief for it, whether it be what we know now as banter or bullying, you know, there's, there's a very fine line in there. And I think, for anybody wants to be bullied, they want to be part of the banter. So you say things that make people laugh, rather than look for a little bit crapple avoid them, because it's just gonna bring the mood down, he's been a negative person lately. And you don't want that, because you don't want people to change their views of you. And that's certainly how I felt and even going into adulthood. And the jobs that I've done, like, so they were the were for strong men, and you've got to be in the, if you're going to be in the army, you must be strong, you must be must be a proper man's man. And yeah, I suppose I am. But I've still got emotions, I've still got feelings. And in the know that now, you know, at the time, I didn't, obviously, that's why I went down that path of of choosing not to want to live anymore. What was

Alex

it that you think led you to those particular jobs that are considered quite masculine,

Luke Scott

I'd always wanted to join the army. And I've never felt any less of a man or any more of a man, when I wasn't when I was serving. Obviously, I felt a lot of pride in what I did for the military, and a lot of people. So for Queen and Country, I knew full well that I was signing up with the potential of going into a war zone, I knew that I didn't think that was going to make me any more of a man, it was probably going to make me more proud. As a person, I wanted to make people proud, who doesn't want to make people proud. And I think every job after that, it's just where my skill set led me. And I wasn't bothered that it was male oriented. I want to be involved in if it was female oriented.

Alex

What was the turning point for you after you spend that week in the mental health assessment centre? And, you know, you're obviously a completely different man, nowadays to the you know, the guy I'm speaking to now, as opposed to in in 2018. So what were the what were the steps to recovery?

Luke Scott

I think. So. I briefly mentioned sort of, we've had a big discussion about the second of November, or the early hours of the third of November 2018. On Christmas Day, 2017. I've been there before, I've tried to take my life. It was my daughter's first Christmas that Christmas. And I thought I'd done everything after that, that I could to improve myself. And then like, say 11 months later on there with a certain mindset. But what are changed, the only one thing that changed actually, in those 11 months, was at first I could see everybody's life better off without me. And it wasn't Christmas to 2017. In the November 2018. The only people's lives I couldn't picture better without me, and it was my children. And whilst I was in hospital, my my partner and my children and my parents come to visit me every single day, twice a day. And that was the turning point for me, I needed to do something that I hadn't done before, to enable me to or to enable my children to still have a dad. And as selfish as it sounds, I needed to do everything I could just for them. Nobody else just for them. And, yeah, I went through that. And I finally got a diagnosis of severe depression and anxiety. And that's This is while I was in the mental health assessment unit. And I remember just giving a huge sigh of relief, as if to uncollapse that I've got that I don't like to be labelled. I'm not my diagnosis at all. I'm not a huge fan of diagnosis. But there was a reason then for the way I was feeling. There was a reason, the way I was acting. And I was reassured and I still am reassured by these words that I'm not alone. I'm not the first person that's going to be in that mental health assessment unit. I'm certainly not going to be the last and unfortunately, I've had to take that on board and and understand that there is other people in the lives of the people going through stuff. And I I was introduced to Andy's man club, and I firmly believe that Andy's man club saved my life. Although I've got to be open and honest It's all on demand. Glucose is open doors. There's, you don't talk about politics, religion and medication in there. So people aren't suggesting you've got to turn to this religion or try this medication. It's just a safe place for men to talk. And like minded men, is the most important thing that other people are struggling. It's a place, there's 110 clubs across the country now. So there's 110 places across the UK, where people can talk where men over the age of 18 can talk about the problems with other men that have had similar problems have previously or currently, and it's just a good place to socialise, which is what I needed. I don't drink alcohol anymore. For years server as of fourth of November 2018. My last drink was on the third up on the Humber bridge. And it's strange, my life is completely different.

Alex

I was curious about your your friendship with the guy from Boston, because there's something really beautiful about when you have a great bond with a bond with any kind of people, but I crave the the male friendships I've got in my life and the kind of the magic that comes from the conversations and the shared experiences and all of that. How's your relationship with him? Nowadays? And when was the, you know, when did you have that chat with him about the fact that, you know, you're, you're still here, you're, you're going to put all the necessary work in to improve your life for your kids sake for it, but also for your own.

Luke Scott

I can't remember when we had that conversation, but we have had it. And it's really strange. Actually, I speak to him more now than I did in 2018. I speak to him almost every other week at the minute. And the reason I want to keep him anonymous, is because I have set up my own mental health support organisation since my struggles, which is awesome. And he supported me from day one. But actually, I'm now supporting him through some tough times that he's having. But he's been on board most my organisation since day one. And I think what I get from him is, is a man's man is allowed slot. Like, I'll be open and honest, I've not slept with that many people. I've never had an affair and ever cheated on my partner. He was doing all these things that you know, are wrong. But as a lot you know, it's it's the lads thing to do. Like the proper lads Watts thing to do. And he was doing that. And I found it cool to watch. I've got other friends that are like that. And I just, I suppose I was inspired by his confidence to to go out and do these things. Although I did tell him look like that's, that's ridiculous. I can't believe you're treating your girlfriend like that. But yeah, and I think that's why I was drawn to him. We just had that energy where I had the high active energy he had the go out party lifestyle energy do what do what you do on a night owl

Alex

have admits like that. And you sometimes you question when they are all about the pursuit of seducing a woman? You think to yourself, are you doing this? Because you really want to seduce a woman? Are you doing it because you want to show off or brag teammates or show your mates or look at me? I'm I'm such a ladies man.

Luke Scott

Yeah, and that's what I think it is. And that's what I think it is with a lot of people, not just the way that I just described that was probably totally disrespectful to women. And I don't mean it like that. It is a tough guy. And it did it with with the utmost respect. And I just think it was his energy. Again, it probably was more about the bragging points and the bed notches. I don't think it looks any good. And future partners definitely think it's any good. But I don't condone what he said, I just enjoyed his energy because I was the total opposite. I've never been a ladies man. I've never cheated on a partner. And I just That's probably why we connected because I was trying to ensure that he didn't want to do it in you. It probably was for bragging rights and I was the one thing we'll stop doing it then just have a good time with a lot.

Alex

It's amazing how he's helped you through your dark times. And then you're able to repay that that support and that that loving friendship that he provided to you that day. Yeah.

Luke Scott

And I think like so special because we went on holiday and you don't normally keep in touch for for this long. To continue that relationship for over a decade. And to them book Future holidays with them. I think there's something special.

Alex

Yeah, absolutely. How's your relationship with your kids now?

Luke Scott

Incredible. Really, really incredible. How old are they? My eldest is 11 just started secondary school today. And my youngest is away. Yeah, yeah. So he's, he's buzzing and I wouldn't have got to see that had I've been been able to carry out what I planned. And yeah, I feel I feel selfish now, looking at that, but actually, in that time, I was doing that for them. Because I could picture their life better off without me and my daughter. Yeah. Fantastic. Daddy's Little Girl wrapped around her little finger. Happy to admit that as the way it should be 100% Yeah, I'll do everything for her. And she does literally nothing for me apart from brings joy to my world. And it's awesome. But in the midst of that, sort of after our 11 year old was born, just 11 months after he was born, me and my partner went through stillbirth, and the consequences of that added to part of the traumas of my life. And the reasons why I did what I didn't want it to end my life, particularly on Christmas Day, because it's all about family. And I couldn't bear to wake up another morning, without him being there. And although that was one of the reasons why I ended up doing what I did. It's, it's also consequently, forced on us so fast and fast, me and my partner, my wife now to wrap both of our children in cotton wool, because we know how precious life is, and we don't want anything to damage our hurt. Whilst we still want them to have a life full of joy and, and socialising, which they do, they've got everything they've got, probably more than a lot of people were very, very lucky. And they're very lucky. And I make them know that the very lucky for what they do have and the friends that they have and the opportunities they have. But yeah, it's forced us to be more, a lot more cautious. I'm thinking naturally, I think other people in my situation would probably do this

Alex

last question today is where's Dave?

Luke Scott

Where's Dave? I'm not sure. I'd like to bump into him. I'd like to speak to him and, and sort of thank him. I hope he's okay. I hope he's, he's still been an awesome, awesome guy. The job cut up in that glamorous just charging people three pound every cow that comes up just three pound, please. That was all he said, you know, there was probably no conversation outside of that. I'd love to take him for a drink. I love to drink. I'm happy to stand in a pub and let him turn away to me. I'd like to think that he'd be pleased with where I am now, like so I work for the NHS. Within mental health. I've set up my own mental health organisation, and the facilitator Andy's man club, I'd like to think he'd be pleased that just that gibberish conversation that I had with him was enough to save my life and pressing that button underneath the counter that I didn't know existed was enough to give me a second chance.

Alex

If I was at the party, Luke was up, he would appear to be that he's enjoying himself. Everything's fine. But it really illustrates to me and to all of us that there's something very different sometimes it's beneath the surface. Luke's episode shows that your support network can come from the most unlikely of places. The friend who was willing to travel so far in the car, to make him realise that he had so much to live for the guy working in the toll booth who press up panic button, and even the police were there to help him. It shows that there's goodness in everyone, we all want to help each other. Throughout his life. Lucas had all these traditionally masculine jobs. And now he's working in a position that's considered perhaps more traditionally feminine ways allowing men to open up and speak about their feelings. Luke being vulnerable and speaking to others about how he was feeling has really unlocked everything for him in his life. It's ultimately saved him and it's given him a new professional direction. And it's also strengthened the relationship with his wife and his kids. What could open an up to others unlock in your life?