1 00:00:00,049 --> 00:00:03,350 if you're using a hybrid cloud storage system that keeps a cache 2 00:00:03,350 --> 00:00:07,609 of your data on premises and then stores the primary copy in the cloud. 3 00:00:07,939 --> 00:00:10,579 You may be wondering if you need to back up this data. 4 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,269 If you're familiar with me, you might think you already know what 5 00:00:14,269 --> 00:00:15,469 I'm going to say at this point. 6 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,569 And my answer might surprise you. 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,220 If you're not familiar with me. 8 00:00:19,250 --> 00:00:20,310 Hi, I'm W. 9 00:00:20,330 --> 00:00:21,059 Curtis Preston. 10 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:22,340 AKA Mister backup. 11 00:00:22,700 --> 00:00:25,310 For over 30 years I've had a singular passion for helping 12 00:00:25,310 --> 00:00:26,569 others protect their data. 13 00:00:26,810 --> 00:00:29,060 With backup and disaster recovery systems. 14 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,750 Every episode of this podcast starts with a brief overview of backup 15 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:37,370 related news, followed by a deep dive, into a single area or lesson that 16 00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:38,840 you can apply in your environment. 17 00:00:39,110 --> 00:00:42,110 To protect you from horrible things like ransomware. 18 00:00:42,349 --> 00:00:44,390 Welcome to the backup wrap up. 19 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:05,590 W. Curtis Preston: welcome to the show. 20 00:01:05,770 --> 00:01:08,270 I'm your host, w Curtis Preston, a k a, Mr. 21 00:01:08,290 --> 00:01:14,960 Backup, and I have with me my T 5 6 8 B consultant Prasanna 22 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:15,770 Malaiyandi, how's it going? 23 00:01:15,770 --> 00:01:16,470 Prasanna. 24 00:01:18,750 --> 00:01:21,210 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'm good, Curtis, and it took me a second 25 00:01:21,270 --> 00:01:23,410 to realize what you talking about. 26 00:01:24,055 --> 00:01:25,335 W. Curtis Preston: I knew you would figure it out though. 27 00:01:26,455 --> 00:01:28,935 'cause you know you got those little nerd bits up in your brain 28 00:01:28,935 --> 00:01:32,345 that just get activated when I say certain things, what is the T? 29 00:01:32,575 --> 00:01:34,705 5 6, 8 B and a. 30 00:01:35,197 --> 00:01:39,537 Prasanna Malaiyandi: it is the standard for how your ethernet cables are 31 00:01:39,677 --> 00:01:41,657 run, whether which pairs go together. 32 00:01:42,822 --> 00:01:44,242 And there are apparently two standards 33 00:01:44,767 --> 00:01:47,257 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I think the A is the old B is the new. 34 00:01:47,797 --> 00:01:51,597 they all work as long as, you do the same thing on both ends of the cable 35 00:01:52,207 --> 00:01:53,787 . Prasanna Malaiyandi: unless you're building 36 00:01:53,867 --> 00:01:55,422 a crossover cable, in which yeah. 37 00:01:55,552 --> 00:01:56,102 W. Curtis Preston: Don't do that. 38 00:01:56,132 --> 00:01:56,422 Yeah. 39 00:01:56,722 --> 00:02:01,492 I, the thing is I'm, I recently discovered that I have, what do you call it? 40 00:02:01,592 --> 00:02:05,442 That the phone jacks in my house actually have RJ there, that 41 00:02:05,442 --> 00:02:06,722 they have Cat six run to them. 42 00:02:07,062 --> 00:02:11,042 And so I'll be wiring them as ethernet ports and, so hence 43 00:02:11,062 --> 00:02:13,322 my interest in the subject. 44 00:02:14,222 --> 00:02:18,572 But, let's get off of that nonsense and get right onto the news of the day. 45 00:02:19,717 --> 00:02:20,377 You know what we need? 46 00:02:20,377 --> 00:02:23,297 We need a, we need like a letter, like a wow. 47 00:02:24,967 --> 00:02:25,737 News of the day. 48 00:02:26,477 --> 00:02:32,237 let's start with our little story from a small, it's a startup. 49 00:02:32,557 --> 00:02:33,957 I believe it's a startup company. 50 00:02:34,307 --> 00:02:35,997 It's called T to Toyota 51 00:02:36,997 --> 00:02:37,867 It's a small startup 52 00:02:38,157 --> 00:02:41,897 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I don't believe that they pronounced the second T 53 00:02:42,007 --> 00:02:42,567 as a T 54 00:02:42,807 --> 00:02:43,747 W. Curtis Preston: Really Toyota. 55 00:02:45,122 --> 00:02:46,022 how else would you pronounce 56 00:02:46,027 --> 00:02:46,317 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 57 00:02:46,397 --> 00:02:48,697 I think the, I think the official name was Toyota, 58 00:02:50,157 --> 00:02:52,017 but they, I think they figured that Americans wouldn't 59 00:02:52,017 --> 00:02:52,777 be able to pronounce that. 60 00:02:52,792 --> 00:02:53,012 oh, 61 00:02:53,292 --> 00:02:53,492 W. Curtis Preston: interesting. 62 00:02:53,522 --> 00:02:54,602 this is a Japanese thing. 63 00:02:54,992 --> 00:02:55,282 Yeah. 64 00:02:55,302 --> 00:02:56,842 So what in the world happened over 65 00:02:56,842 --> 00:02:58,452 at Toyota Prasanna 66 00:03:00,322 --> 00:03:02,852 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, just something about them trying to make a bunch 67 00:03:02,872 --> 00:03:08,292 of cars then for some reason a whole bunch of their manufacturing plants. 68 00:03:08,452 --> 00:03:08,652 I think 69 00:03:08,932 --> 00:03:09,452 14 Yeah. 70 00:03:09,482 --> 00:03:09,972 W. Curtis Preston: shut down 71 00:03:10,042 --> 00:03:10,332 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 72 00:03:11,072 --> 00:03:12,292 as they're trying to crank out. 73 00:03:12,352 --> 00:03:13,972 So if you were waiting for the new 74 00:03:14,102 --> 00:03:15,372 W. Curtis Preston: Prius or the 75 00:03:15,372 --> 00:03:17,012 Prasanna Malaiyandi: new Prius, or the new R four, 76 00:03:17,432 --> 00:03:18,209 you might have Yeah. 77 00:03:18,247 --> 00:03:20,087 W. Curtis Preston: If you're on the li, if you're on the list of people 78 00:03:20,107 --> 00:03:24,267 desperately trying to get a Prius Prime instead of just a Prius, this is why. 79 00:03:24,877 --> 00:03:28,957 This is the worst, is they were doing Scheduled maintenance on 80 00:03:28,957 --> 00:03:34,277 their database, and they neglected to take into account the amount 81 00:03:34,277 --> 00:03:36,517 of space necessary to do the task. 82 00:03:37,217 --> 00:03:43,127 And they ran out of storage space on their, production system, and it just 83 00:03:43,297 --> 00:03:47,167 haled the production at a dozen factories. 84 00:03:49,467 --> 00:03:50,267 I don't know what to say. 85 00:03:50,582 --> 00:03:50,872 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 86 00:03:50,952 --> 00:03:54,152 and the crazy thing is it's not like, oh, I've just got a free up space and I'm 87 00:03:54,152 --> 00:03:55,392 boom, everything's gonna come back online. 88 00:03:55,392 --> 00:03:57,112 Like restarting a production 89 00:03:57,192 --> 00:03:57,482 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 90 00:03:58,532 --> 00:04:00,752 Prasanna Malaiyandi: is time consuming and very 91 00:04:01,282 --> 00:04:01,632 hairy. 92 00:04:02,107 --> 00:04:04,742 W. Curtis Preston: you know, it reminds me, uh, when I was at the 93 00:04:04,742 --> 00:04:07,222 bank a hundred years ago, when. 94 00:04:08,732 --> 00:04:10,472 The E p O button was pressed. 95 00:04:10,592 --> 00:04:13,662 I won't say who it was me, . So shutting it down was easy. 96 00:04:14,382 --> 00:04:17,422 Bringing the bag, the bank, nobody knew how to bring everything back online. 97 00:04:17,452 --> 00:04:18,542 It's probably the same thing here. 98 00:04:19,162 --> 00:04:22,982 And here's the part that, just this sentence in this article from 99 00:04:23,222 --> 00:04:27,382 bleeping computer.com, which I'll link to in the show description. 100 00:04:28,042 --> 00:04:32,362 Toyota explains that its main servers and backup machines 101 00:04:32,672 --> 00:04:34,442 operate on the same system. 102 00:04:35,422 --> 00:04:37,802 Due to this, both systems face the same. 103 00:04:37,802 --> 00:04:42,002 Failure making a switchover impossible, inevitably leading 104 00:04:42,002 --> 00:04:43,522 to a halt in factory operations. 105 00:04:43,727 --> 00:04:44,587 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So they don't have 106 00:04:44,587 --> 00:04:45,547 high availability 107 00:04:46,072 --> 00:04:46,292 W. Curtis Preston: so 108 00:04:46,567 --> 00:04:49,067 Prasanna Malaiyandi: or are they running like two virtual machines on the 109 00:04:49,127 --> 00:04:50,707 W. Curtis Preston: Here's what I think that means. 110 00:04:51,217 --> 00:04:53,027 They do have standby machines. 111 00:04:53,317 --> 00:04:56,827 Maybe what this means, what they don't have is standby storage. 112 00:04:57,767 --> 00:05:00,187 The storage was the thing that had the outage. 113 00:05:00,687 --> 00:05:04,467 And so since both the backup and the primary systems used the same storage, 114 00:05:05,247 --> 00:05:07,107 that's not very highly available, right? 115 00:05:07,587 --> 00:05:08,427 a single point of failure. 116 00:05:08,587 --> 00:05:08,877 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 117 00:05:08,977 --> 00:05:11,357 But Toyota, you're a big company. 118 00:05:12,287 --> 00:05:18,277 spend some money and hire a proper IT consultant to come in, or a storage 119 00:05:18,277 --> 00:05:20,317 consultant to come in and plan your 120 00:05:20,317 --> 00:05:20,557 storage. 121 00:05:21,097 --> 00:05:22,797 I'm sure there are numerous companies who would like to 122 00:05:22,797 --> 00:05:23,917 come talk to you about buying 123 00:05:23,917 --> 00:05:24,557 their products. 124 00:05:24,632 --> 00:05:25,122 W. Curtis Preston: exactly. 125 00:05:25,472 --> 00:05:25,762 yeah, 126 00:05:25,862 --> 00:05:27,582 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Howard would love to talk you. 127 00:05:27,612 --> 00:05:27,912 Howard 128 00:05:27,912 --> 00:05:28,182 Marks 129 00:05:28,182 --> 00:05:31,320 W. Curtis Preston: would, would this is a classic example of single point of failure 130 00:05:32,140 --> 00:05:33,780 so I, I really don't know what to say. 131 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,350 And what do we have is our second story, This one is actually, 132 00:05:37,470 --> 00:05:38,470 I think, more depressing. 133 00:05:41,225 --> 00:05:43,965 Prasanna Malaiyandi: So it's from a, I don't know if it's a 134 00:05:43,965 --> 00:05:45,525 company or a news source called 135 00:05:45,715 --> 00:05:50,405 Beta News, and they recently published an article by Ian Barker saying 136 00:05:50,405 --> 00:05:55,965 that two out of three companies lose data due to failed backups. 137 00:05:56,665 --> 00:05:58,505 And Curtis backups never fail. 138 00:05:58,515 --> 00:05:58,865 Right, 139 00:06:00,180 --> 00:06:03,880 W. Curtis Preston: Uh, so it was based on a survey from a 140 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,640 company called aorn Acorn aorn, 141 00:06:09,110 --> 00:06:09,640 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, I 142 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:09,920 W. Curtis Preston: think so. 143 00:06:10,780 --> 00:06:11,560 Prasanna Malaiyandi: an encrypted 144 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:11,840 drive 145 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:12,160 W. Curtis Preston: maker. 146 00:06:12,348 --> 00:06:13,408 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And it was a survey done 147 00:06:13,408 --> 00:06:14,488 in the uk, right. 148 00:06:14,708 --> 00:06:14,928 So 149 00:06:15,063 --> 00:06:16,923 W. Curtis Preston: I'm sure things are so much better over here. 150 00:06:17,663 --> 00:06:17,953 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yeah. 151 00:06:18,238 --> 00:06:21,868 W. Curtis Preston: not Here's the thing that I, when I looked at this 152 00:06:21,868 --> 00:06:25,708 article, and again, we'll link to it in the show description, that. 153 00:06:27,078 --> 00:06:32,098 They said that this was a marked difference from the previous year. 154 00:06:32,638 --> 00:06:36,918 They said a quarter of respondents say the ransomware has been the main cause 155 00:06:36,918 --> 00:06:39,558 of a data breach and increase for 15%. 156 00:06:40,408 --> 00:06:44,638 32% is the people that, they had an unsuccessful recovery and 157 00:06:44,638 --> 00:06:47,158 that was up from only 2% in 2022. 158 00:06:48,138 --> 00:06:49,518 So a huge change. 159 00:06:50,668 --> 00:06:55,858 The thing that I think says everything is they said that this 160 00:06:56,468 --> 00:06:59,363 sharp . Increase un recoverability. 161 00:07:00,303 --> 00:07:04,803 it was basically at the same exact time as there was a sharp 162 00:07:05,603 --> 00:07:07,003 decrease in the level of automation. 163 00:07:07,193 --> 00:07:09,353 What, you know what I'm talking about there? 164 00:07:09,843 --> 00:07:10,133 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 165 00:07:10,133 --> 00:07:11,093 which makes sense, right? 166 00:07:11,123 --> 00:07:11,413 Yeah. 167 00:07:11,413 --> 00:07:16,193 Because it's oh, you don't have automated processes in place, tools, et cetera. 168 00:07:16,873 --> 00:07:20,173 If you don't have those and how can you really verify that 169 00:07:20,173 --> 00:07:22,093 your backups were successful? 170 00:07:22,413 --> 00:07:25,773 I know Curtis, you like to talk about, verify your backups, make sure they 171 00:07:25,773 --> 00:07:26,973 work before you actually need them. 172 00:07:26,993 --> 00:07:29,093 And so if you don't have it, then that makes sense. 173 00:07:29,713 --> 00:07:32,373 The other interesting thing in the article, which might go hand 174 00:07:32,373 --> 00:07:35,333 in hand with is they were also talking about how. 175 00:07:36,498 --> 00:07:40,198 Like with everyone working remotely, There was a lot of sort of self-service. 176 00:07:40,578 --> 00:07:43,838 Let employees do their own backups, copy the data they want. 177 00:07:43,938 --> 00:07:45,318 And we all know how that goes. 178 00:07:45,318 --> 00:07:45,918 come on Curtis. 179 00:07:46,058 --> 00:07:47,798 How often would you back up data on your 180 00:07:48,248 --> 00:07:50,343 If someone wasn't sitting there backing it up automatically. 181 00:07:50,638 --> 00:07:54,518 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, I've never been a fan of backups that 182 00:07:54,518 --> 00:07:55,798 require manual intervention. 183 00:07:55,898 --> 00:08:01,238 I understand that in some cases, that may be the only choice, but I think backups 184 00:08:01,238 --> 00:08:06,348 should be a hundred percent automated that new systems that come online, for 185 00:08:06,348 --> 00:08:10,658 example,, So like when you should be using auto selection and auto discovery 186 00:08:10,758 --> 00:08:14,098 and all of these things so that let's say you're backing up VMware and you 187 00:08:14,098 --> 00:08:19,138 add a new vm, that VM will automatically be protected by the backup system. 188 00:08:19,138 --> 00:08:20,018 You don't need to add it. 189 00:08:20,058 --> 00:08:22,988 I think that anything that you can automate 190 00:08:23,168 --> 00:08:23,788 is possible. 191 00:08:24,976 --> 00:08:26,196 Prasanna Malaiyandi: At least a base level, right? 192 00:08:26,263 --> 00:08:29,483 It doesn't have to be like, oh, everything is like super duper protected, but 193 00:08:29,483 --> 00:08:30,563 at least you have something going. 194 00:08:30,843 --> 00:08:33,273 And just going to the example they gave about trusting 195 00:08:33,513 --> 00:08:35,433 employees to copy their data. 196 00:08:35,623 --> 00:08:39,758 if you don't wanna trust your employees, you could do things like Give them 197 00:08:40,078 --> 00:08:44,358 a one drive or a Google Drive and have them put their content there 198 00:08:44,358 --> 00:08:45,598 and that's where they're creating it. 199 00:08:45,658 --> 00:08:50,438 And then you as a central admin, you now go back up that one repository rather 200 00:08:50,438 --> 00:08:52,078 than trusting your users are doing 201 00:08:52,088 --> 00:08:52,378 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 202 00:08:52,968 --> 00:08:53,258 Yeah. 203 00:08:53,518 --> 00:08:53,918 Prasanna Malaiyandi: we know how 204 00:08:53,918 --> 00:08:54,038 that 205 00:08:54,038 --> 00:08:54,158 W. Curtis Preston: goes. 206 00:08:54,213 --> 00:08:54,693 exactly. 207 00:08:55,153 --> 00:08:58,893 So I think that the thing that we can learn from this sort of story 208 00:08:59,153 --> 00:09:04,323 is an increase in manual backups is a decrease in recoverability. 209 00:09:04,463 --> 00:09:06,673 And if you walk away with nothing else, right? 210 00:09:06,703 --> 00:09:08,313 Walk away with that piece of information. 211 00:09:08,313 --> 00:09:11,193 Is automation good, manual, bad when it comes to backups? 212 00:09:11,653 --> 00:09:13,913 The more we can get the human outta the better. 213 00:09:15,288 --> 00:09:17,868 Prasanna Malaiyandi: And I also wanna chime in on one thing, Curtis, I know 214 00:09:17,888 --> 00:09:20,948 you probably cut your teeth doing this way back when you started, but 215 00:09:21,338 --> 00:09:23,608 even things like scripts, right? 216 00:09:23,608 --> 00:09:26,916 People may think scripts are automated, but scripts are not 217 00:09:27,253 --> 00:09:28,303 W. Curtis Preston: They're not bulletproof. 218 00:09:28,583 --> 00:09:29,943 I wrote a lot of scripts back 219 00:09:29,943 --> 00:09:32,093 in my day, Prasanna. 220 00:09:32,163 --> 00:09:34,523 I remember, yeah, I remember that one year. 221 00:09:34,723 --> 00:09:37,923 I remember writing 150 custom shell scripts to make a 222 00:09:37,923 --> 00:09:39,243 particular configuration work. 223 00:09:39,263 --> 00:09:43,643 And it was just meant, and I'm sure every one of those broke at some point, 224 00:09:44,133 --> 00:09:44,353 , Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep, 225 00:09:45,143 --> 00:09:46,743 W. Curtis Preston: I wonder if any of 'em are still in use. 226 00:09:46,933 --> 00:09:48,063 That was 20 years ago. 227 00:09:49,343 --> 00:09:51,503 Probably not 23 years ago. 228 00:09:52,283 --> 00:09:55,743 so I think it's time for our main topic today. 229 00:09:56,603 --> 00:10:00,863 Our main topic today is going to be whether or not we need to back up 230 00:10:00,863 --> 00:10:04,063 what I'm calling hybrid cloud storage. 231 00:10:04,923 --> 00:10:07,703 how would you, how do you think we should define that? 232 00:10:08,703 --> 00:10:10,993 Prasanna Malaiyandi: It's funny, I know we recently just talked about 233 00:10:10,993 --> 00:10:14,573 like the public cloud, and if you ask Five years ago what the hybrid 234 00:10:14,573 --> 00:10:17,643 cloud is, you'd probably get very different answers from different people. 235 00:10:17,963 --> 00:10:22,643 I think though what you're starting to see is people coming to the realization that 236 00:10:22,643 --> 00:10:29,273 hybrid cloud is Where you own some of the resources, maybe it's running in your own 237 00:10:29,273 --> 00:10:34,393 data center or somewhere like that, and you're also leveraging the benefits of 238 00:10:34,393 --> 00:10:37,873 the cloud, but you're not fully embracing the cloud like we talked about with the 239 00:10:37,873 --> 00:10:39,273 public cloud in the last episode, right? 240 00:10:39,303 --> 00:10:43,193 It's you're sending some bits and pieces of data leveraging services 241 00:10:43,193 --> 00:10:46,913 where possible, where it makes sense, and otherwise you have a lot of your 242 00:10:47,073 --> 00:10:48,953 applications still running in your data 243 00:10:48,953 --> 00:10:49,193 center. 244 00:10:49,828 --> 00:10:53,208 Now if we dig into what hybrid cloud storage is though, right? 245 00:10:53,668 --> 00:10:57,328 That's the capability where you basically are leveraging all the 246 00:10:57,528 --> 00:10:58,608 benefits of having cloud storage. 247 00:10:58,608 --> 00:11:01,448 Like we talked last time about infinitely available storage 248 00:11:01,518 --> 00:11:03,728 with AWS's SS three, right? 249 00:11:03,728 --> 00:11:04,688 Google has their own. 250 00:11:05,268 --> 00:11:09,448 but in order to access that, you have a component running on premises. 251 00:11:09,868 --> 00:11:12,288 in your data center, which your applications can talk to. 252 00:11:12,288 --> 00:11:14,778 That way they don't need to rejigger themselves to talk to the cloud. 253 00:11:15,128 --> 00:11:17,978 They talk to that one appliance, and that one appliance is able to spread 254 00:11:17,978 --> 00:11:19,378 the data out amongst the cloud. 255 00:11:19,568 --> 00:11:23,578 Sometimes it keeps a local copy cached on that appliance, so then 256 00:11:23,578 --> 00:11:27,218 you get almost instant access, just as if the system, the storage, was 257 00:11:27,218 --> 00:11:27,418 local 258 00:11:28,648 --> 00:11:29,968 so this is companies like 259 00:11:29,998 --> 00:11:32,128 Nasuni Panera CTERA.. 260 00:11:32,257 --> 00:11:35,077 W. Curtis Preston: The idea is you get a box or multiple boxes. 261 00:11:35,657 --> 00:11:39,437 You put the data on that box, and then they use the magic of the cloud to 262 00:11:39,437 --> 00:11:41,157 make sure that that data is protected. 263 00:11:41,157 --> 00:11:45,307 everything that goes on that box is also copied into the cloud, but the 264 00:11:45,407 --> 00:11:47,667 box essentially acts as a cache. 265 00:11:48,832 --> 00:11:51,672 the record of authority, I think is the one up in the cloud. 266 00:11:52,452 --> 00:11:57,232 But you're accessing a local cache of what's in the cloud, and then it's, 267 00:11:57,282 --> 00:12:01,962 through cloud magic, they're making sure that the current version, as well 268 00:12:01,962 --> 00:12:08,962 as historical versions of those files or blocks, are stored in the cloud. 269 00:12:08,992 --> 00:12:10,122 Does that sound about right? 270 00:12:11,092 --> 00:12:11,292 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 271 00:12:11,862 --> 00:12:12,752 Yeah, that sounds good. 272 00:12:12,752 --> 00:12:13,192 And right. 273 00:12:13,292 --> 00:12:17,232 And the other benefit that you see typically with this sort of hybrid cloud 274 00:12:17,232 --> 00:12:21,272 storage is there are use cases where you have multiple remote offices all 275 00:12:21,272 --> 00:12:22,992 who need to collaborate on a document. 276 00:12:22,992 --> 00:12:24,072 Like you see this in 277 00:12:24,332 --> 00:12:24,872 CAD design. 278 00:12:25,323 --> 00:12:26,663 or CAD firms, I should say. 279 00:12:26,763 --> 00:12:31,743 And so this is where you sort of have multiple people all collaborating and 280 00:12:31,753 --> 00:12:37,703 being able to synchronize and get access to the same files without necessarily 281 00:12:37,703 --> 00:12:39,463 having multiple copies all spread out. 282 00:12:39,463 --> 00:12:41,423 And they all have their own CAD for performance reasons, 283 00:12:41,423 --> 00:12:42,623 especially with CAD files. 284 00:12:42,623 --> 00:12:43,183 They're very 285 00:12:43,698 --> 00:12:47,908 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, so it's in that sense, it's like a big, much 286 00:12:47,938 --> 00:12:50,868 more expensive, say Dropbox, right? 287 00:12:50,898 --> 00:12:57,728 It's both a, it's a collaboration tool as well as a on-prem storage solution. 288 00:12:59,268 --> 00:12:59,558 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 289 00:13:00,058 --> 00:13:04,718 And the one thing I wanted to correct, Curtis, I know you said they give you like 290 00:13:04,878 --> 00:13:05,878 a box, right? 291 00:13:05,958 --> 00:13:07,278 I think we need to be careful these days. 292 00:13:07,278 --> 00:13:08,438 Like it's not always 293 00:13:08,478 --> 00:13:10,558 a physical box if that's what our listeners think, right? 294 00:13:10,788 --> 00:13:16,918 Many times it's a software package that you install in a hypervisor, right? 295 00:13:16,978 --> 00:13:19,038 And that gives it the functionality it needs. 296 00:13:19,058 --> 00:13:20,598 It doesn't have to be a physical server, 297 00:13:20,648 --> 00:13:22,088 W. Curtis Preston: the hypervisor's on a box. 298 00:13:22,468 --> 00:13:24,648 So I still say . That's, I know what you're saying. 299 00:13:24,648 --> 00:13:25,088 It's not 300 00:13:25,123 --> 00:13:26,023 Prasanna Malaiyandi: yes it is. 301 00:13:26,048 --> 00:13:28,438 W. Curtis Preston: a physical appliance that you're getting from this company. 302 00:13:28,668 --> 00:13:31,158 Yeah, it's just an on-prem component. 303 00:13:32,058 --> 00:13:37,208 That may be a physical box, it may be a VM running in your, virtualization world. 304 00:13:38,468 --> 00:13:38,888 So the 305 00:13:39,128 --> 00:13:41,608 question Prasanna, as is often 306 00:13:41,668 --> 00:13:42,168 the question 307 00:13:42,793 --> 00:13:44,093 Prasanna Malaiyandi: How about I asked you the 308 00:13:44,248 --> 00:13:45,108 W. Curtis Preston: Oh, okay. 309 00:13:46,563 --> 00:13:47,213 Prasanna Malaiyandi: I'll ask you. 310 00:13:47,543 --> 00:13:51,683 And Curtis, I know that your stance has always been backup 311 00:13:51,778 --> 00:13:52,068 W. Curtis Preston: yeah. 312 00:13:52,098 --> 00:13:52,548 Back up. 313 00:13:52,548 --> 00:13:52,988 All the things. 314 00:13:53,343 --> 00:13:55,083 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Now in the case of, yeah. 315 00:13:55,083 --> 00:13:55,483 Back up. 316 00:13:55,483 --> 00:14:00,773 All the things in the case of hybrid cloud storage, do I need to back it up? 317 00:14:00,853 --> 00:14:03,373 I know we talked about public cloud last episode. 318 00:14:03,383 --> 00:14:03,733 Right. 319 00:14:04,193 --> 00:14:06,853 And I know in the past we've talked about traditional data sources. 320 00:14:07,833 --> 00:14:10,213 What's your take on hybrid cloud storage? 321 00:14:10,368 --> 00:14:12,518 W. Curtis Preston: So first off, let's start with the concept to 322 00:14:12,518 --> 00:14:13,598 back up all the things, right? 323 00:14:13,778 --> 00:14:16,778 assuming that the data that you're putting on there has value to the, your 324 00:14:16,778 --> 00:14:19,498 organization, it needs to be backed up. 325 00:14:20,228 --> 00:14:20,518 Okay. 326 00:14:20,748 --> 00:14:23,318 That the, there's just no question about that. 327 00:14:24,178 --> 00:14:29,598 The question I think that is appropriate to this scenario is whether or not. 328 00:14:30,673 --> 00:14:32,773 it is being backed up, right? 329 00:14:33,593 --> 00:14:38,433 I think the first thing to think about is are there two copies, right? 330 00:14:38,653 --> 00:14:40,593 And then are there historical copies? 331 00:14:41,893 --> 00:14:46,493 And the answer is, it depends. 332 00:14:47,663 --> 00:14:48,013 , right? 333 00:14:48,553 --> 00:14:48,753 Prasanna Malaiyandi: on 334 00:14:48,868 --> 00:14:52,208 W. Curtis Preston: For, For, the recent data, there are definitely 335 00:14:52,268 --> 00:14:56,488 two copies, right there is the copy on your local device. 336 00:14:57,458 --> 00:15:02,248 There is the copy that is up in the cloud because by design, everything you put on 337 00:15:02,248 --> 00:15:04,088 the device is copied up into the cloud. 338 00:15:04,588 --> 00:15:06,128 So there you have two copies. 339 00:15:08,313 --> 00:15:14,203 Depending on what you're syncing to, you could also argue that there are typically 340 00:15:14,213 --> 00:15:19,703 three copies up there, because if you're syncing to SS three or something like 341 00:15:20,023 --> 00:15:24,063 S three, you are using object storage that is automatically replicating 342 00:15:24,123 --> 00:15:25,703 its data to multiple locations. 343 00:15:26,483 --> 00:15:33,698 So you have multiple locations that . Are subject to different risk profiles, 344 00:15:34,338 --> 00:15:35,898 assuming they're far enough apart. 345 00:15:36,454 --> 00:15:38,114 Prasanna Malaiyandi: But here's my thing. 346 00:15:38,424 --> 00:15:41,954 Typically what you're storing though, in that case is probably 347 00:15:41,954 --> 00:15:46,714 something that is in a native format for that stor storage appliance. 348 00:15:48,914 --> 00:15:53,957 And so you are at a single point of failure at that instance, right? 349 00:15:53,957 --> 00:15:58,647 Because if say something gets corrupt with metadata, Or if it's 350 00:15:58,647 --> 00:16:02,407 for some reason unable to piece together what's been stored in the 351 00:16:02,407 --> 00:16:04,807 backend, like how do you know that? 352 00:16:04,837 --> 00:16:08,527 Like the file table or the entire file system 353 00:16:08,527 --> 00:16:10,767 with all the metadata has been backed up as well? 354 00:16:11,177 --> 00:16:13,517 If something gets corrupt, how do you restore that? 355 00:16:13,897 --> 00:16:15,877 If someone deletes a file, right? 356 00:16:16,097 --> 00:16:16,957 How do you do that? 357 00:16:16,977 --> 00:16:18,667 And Or if you need to restore, right? 358 00:16:18,777 --> 00:16:22,387 Does that require you to completely spin up a new software appliance 359 00:16:22,387 --> 00:16:25,947 somewhere and connect it in, and what does that look like? 360 00:16:26,207 --> 00:16:32,297 So I think while I agree with you that yes, you do have your copy in the cloud, 361 00:16:32,317 --> 00:16:36,737 and so it meets all those principles, I think it depends what you're trying 362 00:16:36,737 --> 00:16:42,467 to recover from, which will determine if it's really a backup or if you 363 00:16:42,467 --> 00:16:43,667 really need to back it up or not. 364 00:16:43,902 --> 00:16:46,272 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, so I think we're in agreement there. 365 00:16:47,032 --> 00:16:48,432 I was just one thing at a time, right? 366 00:16:48,552 --> 00:16:50,312 I was thinking first, let's think about the files. 367 00:16:50,612 --> 00:16:55,392 Now we have to think about the file system and the configuration that you're right. 368 00:16:55,472 --> 00:16:59,542 That in this case, you, you're using essentially a cloud gateway. 369 00:17:01,077 --> 00:17:05,377 The now, if it's the appliance itself that dies, or you're talking about the 370 00:17:05,497 --> 00:17:12,397 metadata, this sort of fancy file system, that metadata, is there a facility 371 00:17:12,397 --> 00:17:17,807 within that to rebuild that metadata? 372 00:17:18,762 --> 00:17:22,632 based on what's ever, whatever's already up there, is there a way to rebuild 373 00:17:22,662 --> 00:17:24,792 that, assuming that gets corrupt? 374 00:17:26,222 --> 00:17:30,832 the other thing is that file system, maybe the data is up there is fine 375 00:17:32,012 --> 00:17:38,502 and maybe the box is fine, but I, I I got a ransomware attack, right? 376 00:17:38,732 --> 00:17:39,942 This is the most common thing, right? 377 00:17:40,262 --> 00:17:48,382 I got a ransomware attack and it attacked a Windows box that was s m b mounted 378 00:17:48,602 --> 00:17:55,197 to . or the box is s and b mounted to the windows box, and I was able to go in 379 00:17:55,497 --> 00:18:03,137 and, corrupt slash encrypt all the files connected to a project or a work group. 380 00:18:04,317 --> 00:18:09,537 And now what we need is not just we haven't corrupted the file system 381 00:18:09,597 --> 00:18:13,537 per se, as much as what we've corrupted is we've corrupted the 382 00:18:13,537 --> 00:18:16,117 current version of the file system. 383 00:18:17,042 --> 00:18:17,392 Right. 384 00:18:17,852 --> 00:18:19,512 We need to be able to go back in time. 385 00:18:19,612 --> 00:18:24,042 So that's the E, that's the other aspect is, do you have it in multiple 386 00:18:24,322 --> 00:18:27,402 locations and then do you have different versions of it over time? 387 00:18:28,432 --> 00:18:33,112 What is the company's answer to that? 388 00:18:33,646 --> 00:18:33,936 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 389 00:18:34,116 --> 00:18:36,936 And that's where I think each company's probably gonna do something different. 390 00:18:37,036 --> 00:18:40,056 And you gotta dig into the documentation, but it is, like 391 00:18:40,056 --> 00:18:44,176 you said, an important question to ask as you're evaluating vendors. 392 00:18:44,481 --> 00:18:44,771 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 393 00:18:45,191 --> 00:18:50,571 how do we recover from, fat fingering, deleting a file, fat fingering, 394 00:18:50,571 --> 00:18:54,091 deleting a directory, or accidentally deleting a whole bunch of files. 395 00:18:54,871 --> 00:18:56,091 And then of course, the, 396 00:18:56,311 --> 00:18:59,131 the, what do you call it, the, the ransomware attack. 397 00:18:59,131 --> 00:18:59,451 Thank you. 398 00:19:00,191 --> 00:19:00,481 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 399 00:19:00,821 --> 00:19:05,401 The other thing to add to that list, Curtis, is also what happens when metadata 400 00:19:05,541 --> 00:19:07,081 in the file system gets corrupted. 401 00:19:07,651 --> 00:19:09,551 W. Curtis Preston: So what happens if the Yeah, exactly. 402 00:19:09,951 --> 00:19:12,821 Whatever this magic is that's taking all those objects and 403 00:19:12,831 --> 00:19:14,301 pretending they're a file system. 404 00:19:14,501 --> 00:19:16,101 'cause that's essentially what we're doing, right? 405 00:19:16,201 --> 00:19:19,751 we're taking a bunch of objects stored up in object storage, and we're making 406 00:19:19,771 --> 00:19:21,111 it look like it's a file system. 407 00:19:22,021 --> 00:19:24,271 What happens if that gets messed up? 408 00:19:24,601 --> 00:19:25,541 Prasanna Malaiyandi: How do you recover from that? 409 00:19:25,821 --> 00:19:30,421 I think one thing though, that it would be interesting to get your take on this is I. 410 00:19:31,656 --> 00:19:35,256 ,when you're doing these backups, you're now locked into 411 00:19:35,256 --> 00:19:37,376 that vendor's format, right? 412 00:19:37,376 --> 00:19:40,656 Because it's a vendor's file system that is being versioned, right? 413 00:19:40,656 --> 00:19:42,336 Let's assume they have versioning, right? 414 00:19:42,336 --> 00:19:43,376 They're able to protect again. 415 00:19:43,376 --> 00:19:45,656 So all those scenarios that we talked about, right? 416 00:19:46,906 --> 00:19:53,286 There may still be something to consider that you may want it to be 417 00:19:53,526 --> 00:19:55,166 agnostic to that vendor's format, 418 00:19:55,329 --> 00:19:56,179 W. Curtis Preston: It's a very good point. 419 00:19:56,599 --> 00:20:00,729 The best analogy that I have to, this is NetApp, right? 420 00:20:00,729 --> 00:20:02,169 We go back to NetApp, right? 421 00:20:02,414 --> 00:20:02,634 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep. 422 00:20:03,174 --> 00:20:03,896 I knew you were going there. 423 00:20:04,349 --> 00:20:05,569 W. Curtis Preston: So they had all this stuff, they got 424 00:20:05,569 --> 00:20:06,769 all this replication, right? 425 00:20:06,879 --> 00:20:07,769 What did people want? 426 00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:12,209 They wanted the ability to back up that data and put it in another format. 427 00:20:12,669 --> 00:20:15,009 And which for a record or for, for the record. 428 00:20:16,029 --> 00:20:18,209 That's what I didn't like about N D M P. 429 00:20:18,259 --> 00:20:18,609 Right. 430 00:20:18,949 --> 00:20:22,729 Um, I mean, I, I always saw N D P as like a necessary evil because it was 431 00:20:22,729 --> 00:20:24,689 the better way to back up a NA box. 432 00:20:24,989 --> 00:20:29,009 But one of the things I never liked about N D M P was that 433 00:20:30,034 --> 00:20:30,524 . Prasanna Malaiyandi: History. 434 00:20:31,454 --> 00:20:37,154 W. Curtis Preston: the backup in a format that was only usable on that platform. 435 00:20:38,094 --> 00:20:41,304 So that was a, it was, by the way, it was the only way they 436 00:20:41,304 --> 00:20:42,304 were able to make it happen. 437 00:20:43,139 --> 00:20:45,859 Because they were able to say to all the NAS vendors, of which at 438 00:20:45,859 --> 00:20:49,939 the time they were probably four or five, they said, look, you can use 439 00:20:50,179 --> 00:20:51,259 whatever backup format you want. 440 00:20:51,259 --> 00:20:52,259 This is a protocol. 441 00:20:52,259 --> 00:20:54,459 This is a, this is an IO protocol. 442 00:20:54,489 --> 00:20:56,179 It's not a backup format protocol. 443 00:20:56,179 --> 00:20:56,899 You don't have to go. 444 00:20:57,009 --> 00:21:00,059 Yeah, but that's what I didn't like about it, is that it wasn't portable. 445 00:21:00,159 --> 00:21:05,239 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Until you got a company like Avamar who was able to crack 446 00:21:05,379 --> 00:21:07,719 the code and allow the 447 00:21:07,719 --> 00:21:09,839 restores to different file 448 00:21:09,839 --> 00:21:10,119 systems. 449 00:21:10,929 --> 00:21:12,859 W. Curtis Preston: Even there, like they were able to do that for 450 00:21:12,859 --> 00:21:15,359 NetApp, but they didn't necessarily do it for other For other vendors. 451 00:21:15,409 --> 00:21:19,949 I'm assuming that the code for U F S dump is available out there somewhere. 452 00:21:21,134 --> 00:21:21,354 And 453 00:21:21,354 --> 00:21:24,954 so it probably wasn't rocket science to crack that particular backup format, 454 00:21:25,374 --> 00:21:28,434 but yeah, you make a real, that's a really valid point, is to make sure 455 00:21:28,534 --> 00:21:30,714 that you at least discuss that question. 456 00:21:31,264 --> 00:21:37,294 What do we, what is our plan if and when, The feces hits the 457 00:21:37,294 --> 00:21:39,974 rotary oscillator for this product. 458 00:21:40,024 --> 00:21:40,904 What is our plan? 459 00:21:41,564 --> 00:21:45,504 And because if you're a hundred percent tied into them and you're, 460 00:21:45,504 --> 00:21:48,954 it's the whole vendor, tie in and I'm sure they're very happy with that. 461 00:21:48,954 --> 00:21:49,194 Yeah. 462 00:21:49,194 --> 00:21:49,874 Vendor lockin, 463 00:21:50,494 --> 00:21:50,784 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah. 464 00:21:52,034 --> 00:21:53,174 W. Curtis Preston: I'm sure they're very happy with that. 465 00:21:53,674 --> 00:21:57,614 The question is, what is your plan if and when you ever choose, 466 00:21:57,954 --> 00:21:58,934 to do something different? 467 00:21:59,594 --> 00:22:01,134 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yep, yep. 468 00:22:01,204 --> 00:22:05,374 It's important to at least ask that question upfront because you may not 469 00:22:05,374 --> 00:22:09,954 ever consider another vendor for Ever right, But it's at least an important 470 00:22:10,234 --> 00:22:13,194 question to ask upfront because if there's a huge switching cost, that's 471 00:22:13,194 --> 00:22:14,244 something you should take, into 472 00:22:14,369 --> 00:22:18,219 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah, so quick answer is yes. 473 00:22:18,949 --> 00:22:21,139 Every piece of data needs to be backed up. 474 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:26,299 The longer answer is you need to make sure that you've got the location dealt with. 475 00:22:26,299 --> 00:22:30,979 You've got to make sure that you have a recovery plan for when you 476 00:22:30,979 --> 00:22:35,219 get attacked by a ransomware bot, and it just encrypts your entire 477 00:22:35,859 --> 00:22:38,279 System, does that encrypt your history? 478 00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:39,639 Does that encrypt all the versions? 479 00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:42,479 Does that all that encryption automatically replicate to the cloud? 480 00:22:42,679 --> 00:22:43,359 'cause the answer is yes. 481 00:22:43,619 --> 00:22:47,879 So the question is how do I go back to before the encryption happened, 482 00:22:48,499 --> 00:22:49,639 what's, what's that process? 483 00:22:50,019 --> 00:22:52,839 And then I think, you know your point about whether or not 484 00:22:52,839 --> 00:22:54,199 you've got backups that are. 485 00:22:55,774 --> 00:22:59,824 Have the ability to go back to a different vendor, assuming you want to do one. 486 00:23:01,084 --> 00:23:06,164 my dru would also be in the backend to have that, to have the data also 487 00:23:06,164 --> 00:23:10,444 replicated to a, an inexpensive copy in another cloud provider. 488 00:23:10,474 --> 00:23:11,404 That would be my dream. 489 00:23:11,594 --> 00:23:13,964 That may actually be possible with some of these vendors. 490 00:23:14,104 --> 00:23:16,324 If you're replicating both to. 491 00:23:17,874 --> 00:23:21,464 Let's just assume, for example, that the only thing you care about is the 492 00:23:21,464 --> 00:23:23,464 active data, at least per the only. 493 00:23:24,644 --> 00:23:27,264 One where you care about performance is the active data. 494 00:23:27,644 --> 00:23:30,384 You want to keep the historical stuff, but you don't wanna 495 00:23:30,384 --> 00:23:31,464 spend a lot of money on it. 496 00:23:31,884 --> 00:23:35,624 So what would be nice is if the Cloud copy could be something like 497 00:23:35,624 --> 00:23:39,024 Glacier Deep Archive with Instant Restore, pay the instrument, restore 498 00:23:39,044 --> 00:23:44,864 fee, and then also copy that to the equivalent on Azure or Google. 499 00:23:45,324 --> 00:23:50,004 And now you've got two independent copies of the data, with history. 500 00:23:50,344 --> 00:23:50,924 That's cool. 501 00:23:52,949 --> 00:23:55,399 Prasanna Malaiyandi: Yeah, and I think what they would probably end 502 00:23:55,399 --> 00:23:58,879 up doing, what the vendor would do is they might support two cloud 503 00:23:58,909 --> 00:24:03,839 targets rather than trying to copy data just because cloud egress costs are 504 00:24:04,069 --> 00:24:04,359 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 505 00:24:04,459 --> 00:24:05,439 Oh, I see what you're saying. 506 00:24:05,439 --> 00:24:07,859 You're saying that it'll just send it to both, uh, vendors. 507 00:24:07,929 --> 00:24:08,739 Yeah, exactly. 508 00:24:09,529 --> 00:24:09,819 Yeah. 509 00:24:09,919 --> 00:24:12,579 Cloudy res, , cloudy, gress costs are very real. 510 00:24:13,439 --> 00:24:15,259 Prasanna Malaiyandi: and I know Curtis, we like to talk about it 511 00:24:15,259 --> 00:24:19,019 a lot on this podcast, but test your recovery scenarios If you are 512 00:24:19,019 --> 00:24:22,949 using a hybrid cloud storage, right? 513 00:24:23,139 --> 00:24:25,989 Test it with some of these, test what happens when you delete a file, right? 514 00:24:26,049 --> 00:24:29,029 Can you restore it, do it before you actually need 515 00:24:29,049 --> 00:24:29,339 W. Curtis Preston: Yeah. 516 00:24:29,649 --> 00:24:29,939 Yeah. 517 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,099 And don't do it like our friend in Alaska did it by deleting all 518 00:24:33,099 --> 00:24:34,299 your data and then testing it. 519 00:24:34,879 --> 00:24:37,029 this is, this is what the cloud is for, right? 520 00:24:37,569 --> 00:24:41,859 Uh, te you could probably spin up a copy, in the cloud, right? 521 00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:44,909 I can't agree with you more, and we can't say that enough. 522 00:24:44,929 --> 00:24:49,674 Is that, the only backup that is truly valid is one that's 523 00:24:49,674 --> 00:24:50,994 been tested in recovery. 524 00:24:51,784 --> 00:24:52,074 yeah. 525 00:24:52,384 --> 00:24:52,874 Exactly. 526 00:24:53,894 --> 00:24:56,864 Well, I think we covered that topic and hopefully answered the question. 527 00:24:57,004 --> 00:25:00,984 If you disagree or strongly agree, we'd love to hear from you. 528 00:25:01,164 --> 00:25:04,744 You can reach me atCurtis@backupwrapup.com. 529 00:25:05,144 --> 00:25:06,264 I look forward to hearing from you. 530 00:25:06,588 --> 00:25:09,828 After recording this episode, I had a chance to see one of these 531 00:25:09,828 --> 00:25:12,468 vendors present a tech field day. 532 00:25:12,868 --> 00:25:17,778 CTERA talked about their edge filer and how it can replace your on-premises 533 00:25:17,778 --> 00:25:22,758 Nass infrastructure with a global file system that is automatically stored in 534 00:25:22,758 --> 00:25:25,098 his many cloud accounts and vendors. 535 00:25:25,278 --> 00:25:26,718 As you ask it to use. 536 00:25:27,258 --> 00:25:32,268 It also automatically stores all versions of every file and stores them in an area 537 00:25:32,268 --> 00:25:35,118 that they say is air gapped and immutable. 538 00:25:35,448 --> 00:25:39,738 I will say I didn't have enough time to dig deep on those claims. 539 00:25:39,768 --> 00:25:41,478 So I would suggest you do so. 540 00:25:42,438 --> 00:25:45,768 From a data protection standpoint, the most exciting feature they 541 00:25:45,768 --> 00:25:48,108 talked about was ransom protect. 542 00:25:48,498 --> 00:25:53,838 They monitor all of file activity using AI after the number of suspicious 543 00:25:53,838 --> 00:25:58,218 events that you specify, they can alert the appropriate number of people. 544 00:25:58,848 --> 00:26:02,298 In any monitoring tools that you have automatically blocked 545 00:26:02,298 --> 00:26:03,528 the offending end point. 546 00:26:03,798 --> 00:26:07,128 And allow the admin to roll back any encrypted files. 547 00:26:07,488 --> 00:26:10,518 They claim to be able to detect and stop the ransomware 548 00:26:10,518 --> 00:26:12,738 attack within about 30 seconds. 549 00:26:13,038 --> 00:26:16,188 And then they can roll back any files and only a few minutes. 550 00:26:16,758 --> 00:26:19,758 That sounds a whole lot better than anything else I've seen. 551 00:26:20,538 --> 00:26:24,858 I did ask them about monitoring for suspicious reads as well as rights. 552 00:26:25,218 --> 00:26:28,668 If they were able to detect suspicious reads, they could also 553 00:26:28,668 --> 00:26:33,228 stop an exfiltration attack, which is quickly becoming the standard. 554 00:26:33,798 --> 00:26:37,398 In fact, most cyber attackers are performing exfiltration 555 00:26:37,608 --> 00:26:39,708 before they begin any encryption. 556 00:26:40,098 --> 00:26:43,818 It seems like they have the tools and logic in place to be able to do this. 557 00:26:43,818 --> 00:26:46,368 And they did say that they were looking into it. 558 00:26:46,578 --> 00:26:48,978 I will eagerly await their update. 559 00:26:51,048 --> 00:26:54,648 Although I stand by our podcast from two weeks ago where we said that 560 00:26:54,888 --> 00:27:01,248 perhaps we get a little too excited about new tools and not enough emphasis 561 00:27:01,248 --> 00:27:04,188 on things like process and people. 562 00:27:04,398 --> 00:27:07,488 I do think it's still okay to get excited about new tools. 563 00:27:07,668 --> 00:27:10,098 So this is, I think very interesting. 564 00:27:11,298 --> 00:27:14,808 I hope you've enjoyed this, uh, first actual episode with our 565 00:27:14,808 --> 00:27:16,428 new name, the backup wrap up. 566 00:27:16,578 --> 00:27:18,798 This has been a production of backup central. 567 00:27:19,188 --> 00:27:21,048 Edited and produced by yours truly. 568 00:27:21,378 --> 00:27:24,708 Any opinions that you hear are those of that speaker and not 569 00:27:24,708 --> 00:27:26,118 necessarily their employer. 570 00:27:26,268 --> 00:27:29,238 This has been the backup wrap-up.