You cannot fake passion.

Passion has to be contagious.

It starts with me as a leader.

If I don't believe in the vision, I will not make others believe.

So initially it starts with a lot of storytelling.

A story that gives hope, success, that excites people to be part of it.

So many things there to look at.

Sanjeev Sahu, president of Ingram Micro's global platform group and one of the most influential business and technology minds in the world.

How do you deal with the uncertainty?

Personally, I call it or form while you transform.

Nine years old, I lost my father.

He told me on his deathbed, do something to change the world.

Too many times we live understanding the perception of how we are perceived as leaders with others.

And that is what the fear of failure is.

Someday we will leave this world and we don't take anything.

But you take experiences and good or bad, when you impact humans and you actually do experiences, you figure out, you try and even if you fail, you figure out something else.

Wow.

Inspiring this internal dialogue when you talk to yourself is like a supportive voice.

Is it like a drill sergeant?

How is it?

It's like.

Welcome back to Lead the Team.

I'm your host Ben Fanning, and this conversation that you're going to hear is meant to challenge, inspire and ripple out.

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And welcome back to Lead of the Team.

What do you call a leader who's reinvented Wall street, re engineered global logistics and is now transforming a $48 billion tech giant that can reach nearly 90% of the world's population using the power of AI and vision?

Well, that leader is Sanjeev Sahu, who's president of Ingram Micro's Global Platform group and one of the most influential business and technology minds in the world.

He's been recognized by Fortune, Asia Business Outlook, CIO News, and more.

And he's led Digital Revolutions as CIO and CTO at TradeMonster, CIO at XPO Logistics, and is now the visionary architect Behind Ingram Micro's Xvantage, an AI powered digital experience platform set to change the global B2B tech ecosystem.

And under his leadership, Xvantage is operating in 20 countries, boasts over 32 million lines of code, and has more than 30 patents pending.

And just last month, Sanjeev Was named the global business icon and is credited with fusing business strategy with deep tech innovations to reimagine the speed at which enterprises operate, serve, and scale.

Wow, what an intro and what a great interview ahead for you all.

Sanjeev, welcome to lead the team.

Thank you, Ben.

You know, really a pleasure to be here with you today.

What a incredible career you've had so far, yet I feel like you're just getting started here.

So how do you balance people and platform when it comes to transformative leadership?

I think transformation is more of a DNA.

It's not a project.

Right.

You actually start transforming with an objective in mind to have some outcome, but it does not stop anytime.

So it's every single day being incrementally better.

And a DNA of the organization.

And the DNA starts with people.

You cannot transform outcome if you cannot transform mindset.

And the mindset is what and why most of the transformations fail.

So I think do a transformative initiative.

You start with why.

Everybody understands the why, you explain the what.

You define the new.

And then slowly, you use compassion to make people part of your journey.

And as you build platforms, you can build the best technology and the best platform in the world.

But if it is not used and understood and adopted by the people, either your customers or employees, it will not be successful.

So you have to bring people in the journey.

You have to show the power of technology via platform.

So in short, platform helps you to bring in new experiences for your customers and your suppliers and employees with the power of technology and the people brings it home by giving it life.

So people and platforms, transformation, and it continues.

It's a cycle that should continue every single day for organization.

All right, so let's start with that.

So you're talking about mindset first.

And that, my friend, is a tough one to do.

Probably the technology is easy compared to that because people are not machines and they don't have the on, off, switch.

And so what's your approach?

Because now you've done it three times, right?

And.

And you're not doing it at small companies, y' all.

He's doing it at very big companies.

And you can't have conversations with thousands and thousands of people.

So how are you transforming mindset at scale?

It starts with me as a leader.

Think about this, Ben.

If I don't believe in the vision every single day, I will not make others believe.

You know, there's a saying that happiness starts with yourself.

If you are not happy yourself, you cannot make others happy.

Yeah, I have to be all in.

Because you cannot seek passion.

And a passion has to be contagious.

Right.

If I do not have passion, which is for the broad out and success of the organization, I cannot inspire others.

So initially it starts with a lot of storytelling, exciting and a story which is for them, not for you.

A story that gives ambition, you know, that gives hope, that gives success, that excites people to be part of it.

You have to make it their story, not your story.

It starts there, so I love it.

So maybe share with the story.

It could be from Ingram Micro.

It could be one of one of your other gigs there that you came in.

Like what story that you saw particularly helped move a big, a big part of your employee population forward on this.

Yeah.

So think about this.

When I came to Ingram Micro, I initially came as chief Digital Officer and my role was to make E commerce better.

Okay.

I came in a few days.

I understood the company, what it does.

And then I asked a very simple question because one of my things I try to make is we need to make complex things simple.

Too many times leaders make simple things complex just to sound cool.

Yes, there are a lot of business books like that.

Books and complex.

So I asked a question.

What do we actually make?

We own anything or make anything.

What do we do?

Is we connect all these amazingly successful technology brands who create and produce technology, either hardware or software, to the resellers, our customers and to taking to the end customers reaching out almost 90% population.

We don't own or create anything.

So you asked a simple question.

Hey, the largest content company in the world do not own a single content.

No, there's a platform.

The largest taxi company do not own a single taxi.

It's a platform.

The largest real estate company do not own a single real estate.

So why can't one of the largest technology company be very successful without owning technology?

Why cannot we become a platform company?

Why cannot lead this industry with the power of platform creating a very different experience for our partners and employees?

What does it mean?

That means that the basic problems of billing, even tracking an order where you to track or recall somebody and say, hey John, where's my laptop?

To solve all these problems, to actually add skews, make it easy, simple, you start there and then once you start telling the story and more and more and more with compassion, you get people and obviously you will have a lot of people who don't believe in you, a lot of naysayers and actually that makes you stronger.

If everybody believes in your strategy, you don't have a strategy.

And that is the art of transformation.

Too many times you will feel you are failing every single day, but over the time you will succeed.

It's like weight loss, you know, like you cannot lose weight in one single day, you know, many days you don't feel like working out, you didn't do that.

But you have to see the results over a period of time and it's endurance.

So that's what I feel about storytelling, compassion, engaging people.

And so when you showed up in in micro with this different vision, you had some naysayers, people bought in.

What was, how long did it take and what were, what's been the end result so far of showing up with this platform vision and sharing it?

I mean, the end result is right now.

Today we are announced that we are a platform company.

We are becoming a platform company.

The business is via platform everybody, including our CEO Paul, whom I work very, very closely.

We talk about it all the time.

It is the way we do business, you know, it is not another way, it is not a side project.

It is our company.

You know, xvantage is what is going to be the company in the future.

So if you ask the associates, you know, in Inra micro, they all know where we are going, what's our vision and it is what we are becoming to be, you know, and that's exciting.

It's an exciting phase to be.

Imagine this.

The technology industry is huge.

And every single day when we have a win story to changing the experience of a partner, changing the experience experience of a supplier, and more Importantly, even using AI, we didn't jump on the AI curve.

We started three years ago with the vision about using more than 40 years of data to change experience.

And all that hard work where there were ups and there are downs with tenacity, there were successes, there are failures, there are naysayers, there are supporters, there are wins, there are failures.

But if you go through that and today where we are, I'm proud on behalf of Ingram Micro of this journey where it's not easy to change such a large organization in 45 years in business, to change in such a short time to be becoming a platform company.

And that's what I'm excited for and if I played a little part of it to do this.

But most importantly, Ben, it's not about the outcome, it's about changing the DNA of the company.

Today we focus on how to win the art of possible, you know, moving fast.

And that is more important because transformation.

Few platforms will come and go.

What will make companies successful is that DNA.

So 23,000 employees.

Yeah.

You guys still got to deliver results on the old business.

Right, the one that you built over, as you mentioned, so many years while you're undergoing transformation.

What are you.

How do you think about operationally not operationalizing that as a leader?

Because the pressure's on to deliver, to fuel the next big thing financially, emotionally, human resource wise.

Yeah, it's a great question.

And that is why most of the transformations, I think, have challenges.

Because what we do is generally we try to do it on a site and not touching the core business and do little incrementally.

We took a different approach.

I call it perform while you transform.

While you transform.

It's not perform or transform.

I mean, then what happens, you are building technology or building platforms using in pilot or poc.

Then you're trying to do the mainstream.

It takes a long cycle and time.

And then you said, okay, so 10%, 5% new thing comes in the market, you again go back to the pocket.

I mean, come on.

If you really believe and if you really have passion to your vision, you have to perform while you transform.

Give an example.

When we started building the platform and rolling on 2022 generally, where would you first roll out the platform in a small country or a small business to actually not test it out?

You know, where we rolled it out first was North America, which is the largest business that we have.

Can you imagine, you know, taking it out or rolling it out?

Yeah, you're not going to take a small country, a nice safe country, where it's not going to make the Wall Street Journal.

Doesn't work out.

Work out.

You're going to start with the biggest.

Yeah, I mean, and the idea is that sometimes that shows the commitment and the focus on your product, you know, so we launched the initial customer experience in about 15 weeks.

And imagine just the E Commerce piece, which was there for more than 20 years.

We changed it and we iterated.

It's not perfect.

The platform will never be perfect, but it's the journey that matters, not the perfection of the technology.

So you have to listen to your customers, you have to iterate more and more and more and you have to be bold.

You have to have that passion behind you.

I mean, I call it the passion and purpose.

You have to have that passion and then you do a.

You, you make ground and you take ground.

You do little, then you do a little more and it keep on, keep on iterating.

Wow.

Well, how do you deal with.

Okay, so boldness, you gotta be bold and what you're doing because you're going like you're starting the biggest market, you're changing a 45 year business.

How do you deal with the uncertainty personally?

Because only so much of the transformation is on you, right?

You're doing the vision and the work.

But they've got to do they.

The other 23,000 people got to do a lot of work.

And if it fails, it's like your career is on the line.

It can, there's a lot of pressure there.

So what are you doing to deal with the pressure and the downsides of this or potential downsides?

I think Ben, it, it goes down to my background and upbringing, right.

I was born in a very remote area in India where the basic necessities were not always a luxury.

And nine years old I lost my father.

I know.

And he told me, and he told me on his deathbed that do something to change the world.

So that stayed in my heart for a long time, right?

And what happens is that one little thing that I always keep in mind, what life taught me not to give up.

Because I learned it from my mother when a single mother brought me up and I saw the atrocities of life and how she faced it.

It teaches you she was always optimistic.

It was very circumstances she had to be frugal to actually bring us up.

But what it teaches you is that what can be worse so when you actually live every day that whatever you get is a blessing, you, you take away the fear to feel.

So think of a simple rule that you have in life is when chips are high, don't be complacent because it can change any day.

And when chips are low, don't be broken because you can change the chips.

So that's a simple thing I follow in my professional world.

Like I mean what else can happen if I have fear to fail, I might go back and do where I was.

It doesn't matter what can be worse, you know, from where I came from.

But if I can succeed, not for me.

And I'm never complacent about success.

I want to do more to give the hope for the employees.

And just one thing that inspires me is how can I do something to change the world?

I mean, INGRAM Micro touches 90% almost of the world's population.

If in a single way you can actually contribute to your little way what you're capable of.

And I have lots of imperfections and lots of things to learn, but if a little way I can improve and impact the world, why not it?

So you keep yourself grounded in those days you actually, you know get upset.

Sometimes you get up, you have a bad day and a good day.

But always remember form is temporary but class is permanent.

So you figure out that okay, there will be good days, bad days, you come back next day, morning to do you know, to start with it.

And other thing I do is that when things are not going well and the way I look at personally is that in many occasionally I will fire myself on a Friday evening and I mourn on Friday evening that I'm fired from the job.

And Saturday I try to take my mind off and look at it and Sunday I start looking at what I should do and Monday rehire myself on the job to come with a new perspective.

And when you do your own report card and your own perspective, it makes you better.

And there's no limit to being better.

I have a lot to learn all the time and keep yourself grounded.

So if you take that fear to fail, you know and then start working on small wins and being credibility, I think that's how you keep yourself grounded.

I mean I never stopped believing that we could do this even though when chips are low and the day I stopped believing the company will stop believing even the original slides we had four years ago, three and a half years ago.

That vision hasn't changed the way to get there.

I recalibrating little bit.

So that's what I would say.

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So, so impressive.

It reminds me of David and Goliath book from Malcolm Gladwell where he studied some has some research that he reviewed on children that had lost parents and how that's like the most devastating thing a child can face yet.

What what he found was in this was a lot of these children went on in life to achieve great things because there was like a level of resilience that was instilled at them at a young age.

And it sounds like something like that may have been unlocked for you in that such a tragic moment.

What was your journey like from that moment to getting here Getting in the US and sort of getting.

I mean it seems like you have worked for specifically sort of targeted big brands, like iconic brands to work for in your career.

How's that played out for you in your journey?

I think, to be honest, Ben, I never targeted any brands and never targeted what title or what should I do.

What I targeted was starting with very simple thing that never be complacent and can I push myself to do more and can I be better tomorrow than I am today?

I never chased money or never chased big titles or brands.

What I chased was my passion.

And I felt that every single dollar or rupee or whatever I earn, I should really deserve it and I should really work hard for it.

And there is.

When I was growing up, you know, it's funny that at that point you cannot choose what you can eat.

So you eat a lot and.

And I used to eat a lot.

I became and I was very, you know, chubby growing up.

And what taught me what was there was I had to learn discipline.

And I actually never, I didn't tell.

I never read much books in my life, you know, like I hardly read any books.

Everything is intuition, you know, and what I think about it and focusing on the why.

And what happened was I tried to, you know, take unconventional route to what I.

I started working when I was 19 just to support my mom, you know, on a side job on a bank and work from there and did my education, got in jobs.

But somehow a switch happened in my life where, you know, I felt that I should not take life for granted.

You know, because you have economic pressures, financial pressures, you are the eldest son, you have to look in family.

And what I felt was I never lacked that self drive because I did not look for somebody to inspire me.

What I looked for is if you get inspired yourself, we look for friends, we look for others partners able to inspire us.

But what we miss out is we sometimes do not talk enough to our own mind.

Our mind never leaves us, it's always with us, highs, lows.

And that's how I started becoming a speaker because I never went through any speaking training and I just started talking to myself.

I just started talking to myself on different topics.

It gives you clarity, gives you purpose.

And then I started working in India.

Then I was picked up by a bank.

I came to Wall street and every time and I was young when I got a call that can you building a first streaming browser based trading platform.

They trusted me.

I was pretty young, but trusted me to build a platform.

That platform later was Acquired by E Trade, now in Morgan Stanley.

So it was an experience, but I never felt in my mind there's nothing that I cannot do.

But there's a difference between arrogance and confidence.

So in the face, how do you draw that distinction?

I think the face is when you actually approach with humility and compassion to understand the perspective.

But let your actions speak more than your words.

That drives confidence.

Your results show for itself.

And then you listen to all.

But you sometimes focus with driving results, with confidence.

What you feel inside is not what you have to always talk about it.

If you do not have that self confidence, you will break many times.

You will seek for support.

And you seek for support, you ask for help.

And again, I was not like this all the time as usual.

When initial years, you know, which if I look at a younger self, I was more emotional and I was to internalize everything I said, maybe I'm not doing everything right.

What can I do better?

You get sometimes little bit, you know, upset with failure.

So it, it happens over time that you miss out a lot.

And then, then I got opportunities in different companies.

There was ups and downs in careers.

There were times when things didn't go well.

And today you see success with a lot of failures in between.

Lot of ups and downs.

You just learn from it.

Nobody's life is perfect.

Everybody has a story, everybody has failures.

What do you see is what is not?

It is, but we have to see through.

That's how life is.

There's a lot, again, a lot to unpack in there.

One of the things is this internal dialogue, this internal conversation.

How do you speak to yourself?

There is research on that too to support that, that we speak to ourselves at such a higher rate.

I believe it's like 10x faster than we can have a conversation with someone else.

So if that loop internally is supportive, it's going to help you get results.

It's going to help you be more confident and really see the possibilities.

But it can also equally work against you if it's not what is.

So I'm curious, when you talk to yourself, how do you talk to yourself?

Is it like a supportive voice?

Is it like a drill sergeant?

How is it?

I think it's like I operate as if, you know, when even when I'm looking at a presentation, looking at somebody, you know, I get this, some images or kind of scanners in my head.

I connect the dots.

I don't read any books.

Everything is in my head, connecting the threads and I get signals from how I operate.

So what happens every Time.

There's a lot of signals happening in my head, a lot of threads.

And what you do is you actually think of a scenario or a thread and just start internalizing it.

You don't have to speak words.

You have to think a sequence and connect your thoughts with your brain's thoughts and think about it.

And sometimes maybe it's.

Sometimes it's words, sometimes it's not words.

You're actually thinking a scenario.

You're thinking, pros, cons, how do you go about it?

Is there an option?

Always remember that there is no wrong decision.

There is a right decision and a right decision.

But a decision made at the time was what it seemed right to you with the best of your abilities.

It can be wrong and you have to figure out it.

If you keep thinking and procrastinating, right, wrong, right, wrong, right, wrong, you lose out.

Because if everybody made always right decisions, it doesn't happen in life, you know.

So, Sanjeev, how do you think about maintaining that positive self talk?

When you've had challenges at work or you're having daily, or you're interacting with difficult situations, what brings you back to a positive or more of a growth mindset and keeping you out of that spiral of negative conversation?

So when you look at.

So it is about.

It's kind of like your life data, right?

We look at AI to process our data.

We don't process our own lives.

So think about this.

If I could come out of nine years old of that situation and come out of it, then I process, okay, if I've done this before, I can do it again.

So you keep grounded or you look at another scenario.

This happened that time.

What did I do?

How can I do better?

And you also have to approach with humility and knowing that, okay, if this doesn't work out and you fail, it's okay, you know, you come out of it.

You know, you.

You do whatever to come out of it.

Too many times we, and this is a realization, it happened to me much later in life, is that too many times we live understanding the perception of how we are perceived as leaders with others.

And that is what the fear of failure is.

You know, too many times we do a job, sometimes we hate the job, but we do a job because the job is perceived well by others.

You know, with the mask.

Right?

Yeah.

But I have some spirituality inside to think about that at.

Someday we will leave this world.

And we don't take anything.

Not our earnings, not our degrees, not our money.

But you take experiences and good or bad, when you Impact humans.

And you actually do experiences and you take learnings from that you figure out.

And it's called when failure is not an option, you try and even if you fail, you figure out something else and just keep chugging along.

That's the way.

Am I perfect?

By no means do I have things to learn every single day.

Do I make mistakes all the time.

But one thing that I have is that I have endurance.

I have endurance to actually fight it out and not give up.

And that is what I learned in life.

Never give up.

Well, inspiring.

So I hear like, like the difficult moments, you think back to your life and the challenges that you've already overcome as like, hey, a track record, I can do it now.

And you mentioned spirituality.

It sounds like faith.

Like you can faith this thing.

The bigger questions are you, do you consider yourself like a spiritual person and is that something that you sort of channel in your daily ritual or how does that, how does that come into your.

So there's a difference between being religious and being spiritual.

And spirituality is not about.

You go to pray God every day.

Yeah, I maybe few minutes pray to a spirit.

But I also feel that in our soul there is always that spirit lies.

You know, I think, I think we try to find God in God, we forget to find God in humans and we try to find God in us.

So if you connect with yourself and you have that self determination, like sometimes, like I try to get me inside me and then try to internalize and get in a zone about how I can come out of it, I think, I think of a positive outcome for the best.

But if it doesn't work out, we'll figure out.

And I'm human too.

Do I feel upset sometimes?

Yes.

Do I feel angry?

Yes.

But at the same time, mostly if you internalize yourself to a power of spirituality which connects you with yourself and connects your passion, that's important.

For example, today at Ingram Micro, why I love what I do is because I'm passionate about an impact.

I'm passionate about doing new things.

I don't define my job as what is written in a box.

The flip side is somebody will say, oh, look at this guy's power hungry.

These guys want to change too fast.

This leader is trying to take over groups.

You know, it's always.

But it hurts you sometimes.

But you have to stay grounded because nobody knows what's in your mind, nobody knows what you want to do.

So there is.

You have to be okay with criticism.

You cannot make everybody happy, then sell ice cream, you know, so you have to be used to people not liking you.

Right.

And that's hard.

We try to make everybody happy.

So this whole thing about are you in your mind happy with the passion and the purpose and giving your best, that's more important.

It's hard.

It's easier said than done.

It has come to me over many years.

I was not like this few years ago, but I'm learning.

Was there one moment in your career recently that helped you step into that more as a leader?

Yeah, there is, you know.

Yeah.

There are some moments in, in jobs, some companies are different than others.

Some companies, the cultures are different.

Some, some companies, they tell you to motivate you.

Some companies that tell you, give you feedback every day, that why you are not so good, what you should be doing better, they don't appreciate success.

So you learn through different cultures.

You make mistakes and it humbles you.

You know, it humbles you.

Because you also understand sometimes a job is not about how you perform.

It's about how you fit.

You know, and it's extremely important.

And it's like about life.

Right.

We sometimes remember what people said or what people, you know, did.

But most importantly, it's about what they made you feel.

And those feelings never goes away.

You will always remember in your job or in your people, you will forget what they said or what they did.

You'll remember some, forget some, but you will never forget how did they or the job made you feel.

So I focus on that.

Some jobs I felt good, some jobs I did not feel good.

And you learn from it and you look for opportunities that's perfect.

There's no perfect job, there's no perfect environment.

But when I was exploring the Ingram Micro opportunity, culture was very important to me.

And what Ingram Micro, the best thing I enjoy is it's a great place to work, people are nice and the culture is great.

You don't come to work every day thinking about what you need to be better, who is kind of stabbing behind you.

It doesn't work like that.

So then what happens is that you try to do your best.

Look, we all make mistakes and we all are not perfect.

We all go through ups and downs, but that's what is the moment that really encourages us.

So what you do is you slowly have an environment where it brings out the best in you.

You can express your ideas without being fearful.

Wow.

Yeah.

It sounds like you've got a place that's a great fit and a place for performance.

You felt.

Yeah, so far.

I mean, I mean, what is that?

Maybe something will change Tomorrow, I don't know.

But we have to do the best.

What is it today?

You know, today, you know, I think most importantly, this vision that we have to really change the company from a distributor to a platform.

It's a.

It excites me that we.

And to be part of this, doing in such a large scale in a short time, that's exciting, and that's the excitement that you thrive for.

There's a difference between a job and a passion.

Right.

And I think if you ask me what advice I'll give everybody is that try to find where your passion meets your purpose.

If you find.

If you don't have passion, you don't have purpose.

And if you find your passion in a job and your purpose, you will be amazingly fit and you will make a happy environment.

And if everybody finds their passion and purpose, you'll have an amazing workplace.

Wow.

Sanjeev, it has been a fun one today.

A lot of wisdom in this one and a lot of great results, too, for the company and your mission.

Thanks for being so open and transparent.

Is there a story maybe that you haven't had a chance to tell yet or something that you'd like to share to sort of wind this thing up?

I think there are many stories, Ben, that makes you some successes, some failures, but they are pivotal points in your life that actually, you know, changes you.

Right.

And one of the things that I remember when I was in my trading days and building a platform, and just four or five months before the launch, we demoed the platform internally to our CEO and board, and it was not great.

And it's kind of like an ultimatum that we might not launch or might have to shut down if this doesn't work before four months.

And how do I go back and tell my employees that, look, this may not work and everybody has families and lives and everything, but I think when I look back, I went back, called everybody and figured out that let's do it.

Impossible thing, building four months to compete with large companies, to be a new entrant in the market, to build something that was not built before, a streaming technology.

And in four months, working day and night, we did it, we launched it, and it was an amazing success.

So the moral of the story is we sometimes get bogged down by challenges.

And as leaders, we sometimes focus more on problems versus being part of solutions.

It is easy to be part of a problem versus be a part of solution.

And if you can take a challenge, there is always an opportunity in every single challenge.

And leaders who can actually take those opportunities make better leaders than others.

The only difference which I'll conclude between extraordinary leaders, extraordinary talent, and ordinary leaders and talent is mindset.

The mindset to focus on why, the mindset to turn a challenge to an opportunity, the mindset to see there is always 60% chance to succeed and not the 40% chance to fail.

And the focus on why is what I learned from all the stories of ups and downs and fails in my life.

So that's all I would say.

Thanks for coming on Lead the team.

Sanjeev thank you so much Ben.

Really appreciate the opportunity.

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