Introduction:

Cam Hall (00:01.966)

Welcome to another episode of the Dad's Making a Difference podcast. Today, I have the pleasure of having a conversation with a fellow educator, school administrator, and father. Today, I'm having a conversation with Leroy Slansky. He is an experienced educator, which is close to my heart, having been in education for a while. But Leroy has been in for 25 years and has had a remarkable educational career where he has worked as a teacher, a special education teacher, vice principal, principal, and now he leads powerful personal and professional development sessions in which he parents and communities through the chaos that life brings. He's also an author and he's penned an influential book called Emotional Schools, where he dove into the importance of emotional intelligence and mental health in the education system.

Our conversation will touch on that, but goes into, "How does emotional intelligence and mental health impact our children in the home?" And "how as parents and dads, can we show up to be connected, in tune, and present for our kids in a way that's gonna develop grit and emotional intelligence and emotional resilience?"

This is an awesome conversation. I really enjoyed this one. So dive in to my conversation with Leroy Slansky on the Dad's Making a Difference podcast right now.

Episode:

Cam Hall (00:01.745)

Leroy, welcome to the Dad's Making a Difference podcast. Great to see you today. Yeah, a pre-call chat. Just now we were talking about the beginning of summer. For those of you who have listened to this podcast, know that I'm an educator, been in education for a long time, but a vice principal. Leroy, you find yourself in the principal seat and also closing off a year.

Leroy Slanzi (00:06.112)

You too, Cam.

Leroy Slanzi (00:22.669)

Yeah, I am. Yeah, it's, this is my, actually my 25th year. This is, I'm at the quarter century mark of doing this gig. been an admin for about 19, 19 years now. So yeah, the summers keep coming faster and faster and faster. So here we are.

Cam Hall (00:28.795)

Amazing.

Cam Hall (00:40.465)

Yeah. Yeah, excellent. And I think with that 25 years experience comes a depth of knowledge and interactions with people about the topic we're talking about today. And that's emotional intelligence. And I love where you come from it because education, it's in my heart. I love it. I've done now this is the year, finishing year 18 for me. And so looking ahead, I'm just like,

Where does this impact and where does this parallel the journey of education and parenting, especially in a time where so much goes around in the media, so much on social media about where kids are at, where kids quote unquote need to be in the role that school and parenting both play in that?

Leroy Slanzi (01:28.301)

Well, you know, it's interesting. I did a podcast with a guy from Chicago about, I don't know, about a month ago. And we were talking about the perfect storm in terms of parenting and education. We're at this place where, you know, we're not where we were when our, industry was more resource based. I mean, in Alberta, it's still probably a lot, there's still a of oil workers and still here in BC, we have people going out and working on the rigs, but you know, logging is not as big as it was. The sawmills aren't as big as it was.

You know, mining is still pretty big. but there's been this, this shift in terms of how society is, you know, we've gone from mom being at home and having this, this family where you got a mom and a dad and you're eating dinner together every night and to a place now where 80 % of our kids are from divorced homes. Mom and dad are both working. Social media is taken over. COVID came in and ran amok, you know,

Sleep deprivation is a big thing. Parents are running out of gas to come home and work on things with their kids, like literally like manners, for example. And so we're in this world and this state where we have kids who are more dysregulated, more unable to cope with small stressors. As you know, being in a school, you probably see it more and more. Attendance in schools is plummeting. That perseverance, that grit, that resiliency to work.

through difficult things is disappearing. And I think parents are lost and I think schools are lost. And that's kind of where I've jumped in in the last six or seven years, writing my book on emotional schools and this looming mental health crisis. And I wrote a book on leadership as well and using emotional and intelligent practices and leadership in schools. And I also do a lot of work with parents on helping them develop emotional intelligence in their kids from birth on, right?

Cam Hall (03:23.037)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (03:23.284)

And we need to do it because our kids are lacking and we're in a perfect storm of mess almost with our kids.

Cam Hall (03:32.925)

Now I see it too. I have lots of conversations with parents throughout the year. And these are parents of kids at the high school level. We're talking like 15 to 18 year olds. And the parents are like, I just can't get them to attend. I just can't get them to finish their work. They don't respond to me. They don't do stuff at home. I don't know what to do. It's your job to make them go to class. I'm like, I can't handhold this kid to class. So let's talk about how we can reach this kid, your kid, your child in a way that

We can start to listen some buy-in and some some connection because they feel so disconnected one from the school and their peers and disconnected from home so I see it too and I'd like that you said Right now we're struggling at home. We're struggling in education But right now we don't know how to blend the two and mend the two so that we can work together To help our kids You mentioned, you know emotional intelligence even from birth

I want to start there because I think that that is the start. That is the start for the parenting journey. So for the dads who are listening to this podcast right now, it's called dads making a difference for a reason. There's guys who are listening to this. So I want to show up more intentionally. I'm going to be a better father. I'm going to be present. I'm going to be actively engaged. And then like, how do I do that? And so yeah, exactly.

Leroy Slanzi (04:52.395)

How do I be more purposeful as a parent, right? And I think, you you asked the question, how do we do it? I know how to do it. I don't want to sound overconfident in that, but really, you know, and I was, before I was the elementary principal here, I was the high school principal for five years. I've been in three high schools and I think, and I have two teenagers, my son's in first year of college, my daughter's going into grade 12 and I know what it's like for parents.

try to get their kids out the door, get them going to class because school is boring because you know, they they're on social media and I call them the 60 second generation, right? They're swiping, watching video. They're not even getting to 60 seconds. They're getting to 30 seconds. So when they go to school, if something is not exciting for them, if it's not creating that dopamine rush, it gets harder and harder for them to go to school because teachers aren't engaging to them. Their friends aren't engaging to them. And so it's difficult.

You know, and the real work should happen when kids are born all the way through elementary school to high school. And so the question for parents about how do I do it with teenagers when they're already at this point is a tough one. And, you know, I struggled. My son, he figured it out. He, know, the one thing that I have with both of my kids and I'm lucky is I got him involved in sports early. So both of my kids are.

you know, they started in swimming, they're doing the 5 a.m. practices, the afterschool practices. you know, my son was the kid who was banging on the gym door for the janitor to open it. And we had a great janitor who opened the door for him. So but they had a passion, right. And so it was a lot easier, you know, getting them to school. My son in particular, my daughter, I struggle with even though I have all these things developed every day is about every day I tap on her door, I get yelled at.

You know, and I just wait and I'm persistent even if I have to be 10 minutes late for work. And I think that's the key is you got to stay persistent and you got to put up with the abuse almost from your kids to get them in because there is this world we live in now. And I know you're feeling at CAM where where teachers are no longer the deliverers of reading and writing and arithmetic. There's an expectation from society that we're also parents and teachers are

Leroy Slanzi (07:10.395)

are struggling because that's not what they were trained for was to be these parents, but parents expect us to be parents until we're parents and they don't like how we're parenting and it's just this, right? And so I think when you talk emotional intelligence and now I'm gonna just back up, you have to start as soon as your kids are born, right? And it starts nowadays with parents putting their phone down and being present and

Cam Hall (07:19.325)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (07:39.089)

That's the biggest thing I think I've seen. I was actually, my daughter had nationals in Edmonton. It was in your backyard volleyball nationals. And I was in the Colonna airport and there's a little play area in the side for, for young toddlers, you know, baby, like kids that are crawling or moms that have little babies and they're holding them, go down the slide. And there was, I would say I took a video of it and I blurred everybody's picture out just cause I was like, Holy shit, this is happening.

There was 11 probably families there and every one of the parents were on their phone while their kids were playing. Every one of them. Yeah, and so you talk purposeful. You're not seeing when your kid is struggling, when they're persevering, when they're successful. And as a parent to develop emotional intelligence, you have to be purposeful in your observations so that you can encourage at the right time or let them fail at the right time.

Cam Hall (08:15.921)

in this.

Leroy Slanzi (08:38.685)

And if you miss it, you're going to have your kids going to end up developing issues with attachment very early. They're going to have issues with quitting very early. They're going to have, you know, issues with, being able to self-regulate because it'll, I don't know how I've watched in that half an hour, I don't know, three or four temper tantrums because their parents weren't paying attention. And when they were failing, it's like, finally, I'm going to get your attention. It's like at the end of the school year, as you know,

Kids typically will misbehave more because they're upset with us because they have to go home for two months and we're not gonna keep teaching them and they miss us and they need us, right? And so you see it, you see at the end of the year, behavior is always before Christmas, always two weeks where it's just crazies before spring, before summer. And you watch that on a more of a microcosm level early on. And if that keeps going.

Cam Hall (09:13.861)

Yeah.

Cam Hall (09:21.597)

before Christmas, before Easter, yep.

Leroy Slanzi (09:34.087)

you end up with teenagers who really don't want to get out of bed and go to school, right? So, yeah.

Cam Hall (09:38.749)

Right. We have a lot of kids growing up right now whose parents were thrown into this digital revolution where, like, I'm in my mid-40s.

didn't have a cell phone until I needed a cell phone and I was like 22 years old, right? But we have parents now who raising young kids and these parents are in their mid-20s and they are just sucked into their digital device. There's lack of connection. I love that what you say, you need to see our kids and see them, meaning observe them and celebrate them when they win and then let them fail safely and fail safely by

letting them sit in it and challenge themselves and know that you're there to either support them or direct them. And yeah, we have parents who are having a tough time right now engaging with their kids.

Leroy Slanzi (10:31.398)

Yeah, and to just kind of scaffold on top of the social media and the phone mess is that when parents do finally put their phone down, they overreact. They become helicopter parents or they become lawnmower parents or they just disengage completely and they have another family member take care of And then what happens is they're clearing the path for their kids and there's no trial and error. There's no...

Cam Hall (10:44.893)

Hmm

Cam Hall (10:50.148)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (11:00.508)

You know, parents are so quick and I'm sure it happens more in the high school, I know, but you know, in the elementary and parents are so quick to call me say, you know, their kids in grade one, six years old, Susie was bullied today. And I'm like, okay, tell me what happened. And then I go down and talk to the classroom teacher and find, okay, what's the story? Well, Susie wasn't bullied. She got into a conflict with a peer. The kid butted in front of her and this, and then she butted in front of somebody in the slide. So the kid pushed her. That's not bullying. That's a conflict.

And the problem is, that when, when kids are young and they're with their parents or with their, their siblings, that, that conflict resolution is not developing through play because they're not playing as much anymore. And parents are, are jumping in and saying, how dare you hurt my kid or pointing fingers instead of looking at it as natural consequences happening. Right. And, and that's the other piece that

that makes it difficult for parents because I think parents struggle with being tougher because they're worried what other parents are gonna think of them, you know, in terms of how they're disciplining, how they have in consequences, are they too soft, are they too hard, are they neglectful? And so parents have this whole, kind of like where teachers are right now, we're being judged and scrutinized, parents are too, right? And so it's like we're in this world where nobody knows, pardon my French, what the fuck to do anymore, you know?

And the recipe is right there in front of us. And I try to, my last few social media posts have been directed at parents talking about brain science and how to use behavior and engagement to develop it so we can build that grit and perseverance. And I think that's the key is, you know, as somebody in my position.

I have street cred because I have my own kids. I know, you know, I have a son who got suspended from school as much as he was awesome. He got suspended from school for a few things, right? And my daughter's in girl drama and you know, I deal with stuff, you know, and I'm trying to do my due diligence. I do a lot of professional development for a lot of schools. And I'm trying to do my part with parents and to communicate what to do to provide them some education as well. Because like you said, it's like, what do you do?

Cam Hall (12:54.375)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (13:20.07)

That's what my hope is to try to help them along the way.

Cam Hall (13:23.729)

That's great. We hear navigating a conversation about how do we get the parents more engaged in the school? How do we get parents more engaged in their child's education and what we're really getting to? And those are two nice things to say, engaged in the school, engaged in education. How do we get parents more engaged in the lives of their kids? Because that's really what we're seeing is parents who are disengaged.

and then they're there for the big moments or they're there for, know, I'm sure you see it at volleyball tournaments, especially club volleyball. It is quite the thing. So when you show up to these tournaments and I'm like, okay, are you here supporting your child? My kids are younger than yours, but pretty strong athletes in their own right in their own areas. And I see parents who are just all in at a soccer game or my daughter's a competitive climber and they're all in at these meets and

I'm like, are you here for your child or are here for you? And then when it's done and that moment is over and that competition is over, then they withdraw. Well, if you're gonna be all in for your kid, be all in for your kid all the time. And parents are struggling with that right now.

Leroy Slanzi (14:31.098)

Yeah.

Yeah. And you know what's interesting? I'm sure I probably had conversations with you Stephanie, how do we get parents more engaged? How do we get them involved? How do we, because here's the dilemma that we face in education. And this is one of the things that I push back on schools and I push back on teachers. And I don't want to sound defeatist, but if we're going to waste professional development time and staff meeting time, trying to figure out how to get parents engaged in this day and age, you're wasting time.

And I don't mean that you can't. I mean that you have to find alternative ways of doing it that are more indirect, more non-threatening. And I think as schools, we always resort to, you know, I'm in an Indigenous school, so it's a little different. When I have a parent gathering, 200 people show up because I'm on an Indian reserve food and we feast and, you know, whereas if I was in the public school, which I just was, and I had a parent gathering, none of my Indigenous parents would show up because of the residential school effect.

You know, and then the parents would show up that I don't want there because their kids have A's and B's, right? So I actually moved away from parent-teacher interviews after report cards. I haven't done them in, let's see, one, two, three, my three last schools, my last 13 years. I don't waste my time with them. have parents, I have my teachers reach out when they need to reach out and they try to create relationships that way. But in terms of getting parents involved, we always, as teachers in schools, we try to go back to this old method.

You know, well, let's call and let's call our kids and tell them something positive about their son or daughter. They don't give a shit. They don't. What they care about a lot of parents, including parents who do a good job, is what they're seeing on here. You know, and so one of the things that I try to do or that I encourage, and I've seen a lot of success with it is I encourage schools to have Facebook pages. I encourage schools to have Instagram pages.

Leroy Slanzi (16:27.253)

the education and I pointed to these before these are our common language and our core competencies that we instill in our kids and we teach and we teach and we teach them about the right thing to do and the wrong thing to do and emotional attention. They go home and educate their parents. They hold their kids accountable. We've actually flipped the script now where we have kids as the parents doing the educating for our parents and we're seeing more more engagement and

What I'm finding is the more social media presence there is where it's more indirect and you do these short little You know, my last few videos have gone from you know 60 seconds to nine minutes long and and parents engage and I break them down into clips and it's They're very curious and I get a lot of I get a lot of direct messages from parents saying okay So if I did this I could be good with this and I'm like, yeah and I and I try to explain to them

small micro doses. And I'm not talking about micro dose and mushrooms here. I'm talking about micro dosing, micro dosing your, your interactions with your kids. Cause a lot of parents, think, and a lot of schools, they think they got to go all in, let's go all in. And then it's like, no, we want, we want our parents, you know, to jump in, you know, when there's a spontaneous moment in education, we call it a teachable moment and parents don't understand the teachable moments. like, you know what?

Cam Hall (17:24.613)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (17:48.216)

Don't feel pressure because you didn't play with your kid today. Try to jump in two or three times throughout the day for five minutes here, two minutes there. And then as you build that up, then add some structured purposeful play where you're gonna sit down with them and do play dough and do leg, because parents are exhausted too, right? They're exhausted, they're working all day. And I feel for them, but I also, you had kids.

you still have a responsibility to raise them, right? And so at the end of the day, we just have to think differently, think outside the box and get them to understand the science behind emotions, which lead to intrinsic motivation, to passion, to grit, to perseverance, which is emotional intelligence. And we have to, because free play, you know, the days of playing kick the can in the parking lot or street hockey, it doesn't, or the riding bikes, you know,

20 years ago, I couldn't get down the street because the kids were everywhere. Now it's like, I'll go for a walk and I'll, it was great. Actually the other day I was, went for a walk and this kid was, came by me and he had a shovel behind his back and it was, he had, I got knocked off the sidewalk and I was like, I'm like, yeah, where's that guy going? So I kind of stopped and I followed him a little bit and him and his buddy were over at, there must've been some sort of a creek running, but they were at this cul-de-sac and I'm thinking they're digging for worms maybe, but I was like, yes, here we go. And so it happens, but.

you know, if it happened to 80 % of our kids back in the day, it's happening only to 20 to 30%. And so without that free play, the emotional intelligence and that development of conflict resolution and communication and collaboration and personal social awareness is just going out the window, right? And so we have to teach parents how to do that, like for the dads out there purposefully, right?

Cam Hall (19:39.003)

What, okay, there's a guy listening to this right now who's being like, okay, I get it, how do I do that? Like, where do I start? What does, I hear emotional intelligence, I mean being present and doing this, but what does this actually look like in practice for me? Where is it, like you said, the microdosing, that's a good place to start, but what does it look like and what does it mean in brain development, that process?

Leroy Slanzi (19:53.059)

Alright.

Mm-hmm.

Leroy Slanzi (20:03.075)

I'll make it really simple. So as parents, we have our biases. We have like, grew up love and sports. I never, I actually never learned to skate, believe it or not. I'm one of those Canadians who can't skate, but I grew up with basketball and you know, I swam and I did all things. One of the things that is one of the cheat codes for parents is to have kids engage in the things that you like to do. And that's where you start. It's like with my kids, I prop my kids both up against the wall with cushions.

Cam Hall (20:14.373)

You

Leroy Slanzi (20:32.49)

and I rolled balls at them and they fumbled with their little hands and sometimes they'd roll it back because I like to play catch, right? And I know some parents, you know, or like to play Lego. know I've got a buddy who's all into models, like those airplane modeling and stuff. And so my suggestion to parents is to interact with your kids in things that you're passionate about. And then what you're gonna see is that your kids,

are going to find their own path. They'll either jump onto your passion or they'll find things that they're passionate about. And as soon as that happens, that's when the purposeful piece comes in where you're now like, okay, my kids roll on the ball back to me. How do I up the ante? Do I get a bigger ball? Do I get a smaller ball? Do I add goalposts? And that allows your kid then to not only work on those fine motor skills or those gross motor skills physically, but it makes your kid to start to think at a very early age. We're talking.

when their head stops wobbling, right? You can start doing that stuff. I think, know, even chores, for example, I used to mow the lawn and have my son in my backpack, right? And then I had him in the front facing it. And I tried to, the sooner that I got his hands on it, and then when I was outside, he had the drill in his hands. And that's where parents, whether you're blue collar, white collar, whatever your profession is, have your kids just follow you, have them follow you around. And then, you know,

Cam Hall (21:31.548)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (21:56.45)

What you're gonna see is all of a sudden when you're out there with your kids and you're doing something in the yard, all of a sudden you might see your, I'll use my daughter as an example. I don't know what she was watching, it was Dora or something. All of a sudden it was four leaf clovers. She's like, dad, I need to find a four leaf clover. And I'm like, all right. And so now I'm like, here we go. This is intrinsic motivation, this is passion. So next thing I know for the next two weeks, we're in the lawn looking for four leaf clovers and.

Cam Hall (22:21.245)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (22:21.984)

You know, and then I, you know, and then because I didn't have a lot of time sometimes too, I'd go buy, bought her a magnifying glass and like, here, use this. And now she's learning science and that's critical thinking. And then she'd be playing independently while I'd be over there moving rocks or, you know, tilling the garden or whatever. The difficult part was my son got ahold of the magnifying glass and started burning insects and lighting things up. But again, learning. so, you know, and then eventually with my daughter, it moved on.

Cam Hall (22:42.231)

stuff.

Leroy Slanzi (22:49.217)

took them swimming and so we're always in the pool and then she was the little mermaid came along and she's like dad I need a mermaid tail I'm like okay the next thing you know I'm buying her a mermaid tail she's in the bathtub with the mermaid tail she's in the pool with the mermaid tail and she became one of the top butterflies in the province at seven years old and it's and it's those things right and and as parents grab those passions when their kids have them whether it's Lego or Kinect or building models or four-leaf clovers

If they grab those passions and they incur, that's the observation piece. When I talked about those parents in the airport, those are the observation pieces. And that's when you're observing and your kids have those passions and you let them fail and make mistakes. But watch them enough so you know where they're about to hit that point where they just need a little pat on the ass so they get moving, right? You can step in and say, here's some encouragement. Let's take some deep breaths. Let's move forward and get them over the hump so they can keep going. And that's how you develop that emotional intelligence piece.

And what I try to do and I teach it at our school, our five year olds in kindergartens can tell you how the prefrontal cortex works. They can tell you how their amygdala works and they can tell you about their polyvagal nerve and how it affects your brain and your thinking. They can tell you if I bring it like they can't tell you right away, but by six months into kindergarten, they can sit in here and say, because they're having some big emotions like, okay, first thing we start with. So why are we taking deep breaths? Because it calms our polyvagal. They can't say polyvagal a lot of times. It's funny when they try.

because it calms this nerve that's in our body in it and it helps soothe our amygdala so we're not in this fight, flight and freeze response and then our prefrontal cortex gets stronger and right through our whole school. Our kids know this and they know and understand the harder they try, the more they persevere, the more they take deep breaths and self regulate and self soothe, the stronger they're gonna get. And it starts with finding a simple passion like a four leaf clover.

Cam Hall (24:44.125)

Is it, for the guys who have like kids now, nine, 10, 11, oh shoot, I missed it. Is it too late?

Leroy Slanzi (24:48.68)

Mm hmm. No, no, it's not too late. It's not even too late with the you know, my son is I'll use my son because he was basketball, basketball, basketball, basketball, had some scholarship offers when he was done. And then, you know, he ended up just burning outside. No, I'm not doing I'm going into kinesiology. want to focus on other things. Now he thinks he's going to be a pro golfer because he started golfing. But one of the other things he's he's all of sudden, you know, I one day he just kind of sitting down with me and

Cam Hall (25:10.746)

You

Leroy Slanzi (25:16.353)

And I was watching a YouTube video on the stuff that's going on in Israel and the Palestinians. he's kind of poking his head over and he's like, dad, what are you watching? I'm like, I just sit down for five minutes and sit down. And then I'll, cause he wanted me to make dinner and he sat down. Next thing I know he's obsessed with what's going on in Palestine, right? He's obsessed with American politics. He's obsessed with, cause we're Italian, right? And he's going to go over and he's backpacking in summer. But at 18 years old, I purposefully made him sit for five minutes because I had a hunch.

And next thing you know, we're not talking about talking basketball because it's driving me crazy. And now we're talking politics. Now he wakes me up in the morning. Hey, did you see what happened in Israel last night, dad? Or see what, you know, and it's, so even at 18 years old and you know, my daughter's a little tougher because girls are more social. They're more appearance based. They're more popularity based. They care more about what people think. But even, even with my, my kids, it's like, and I use this, I will send.

I will send my daughter if there's something I want her to learn, I'll send her a little 60 second thing on Instagram. I'll make sure it's funny and it catches her attention because that's the avenue I have to use. you know, and I know she'll, she'll look at it I'll ask her, did you see that video? Watching a video from you. They're probably just nerdy and boring, but then a week later, guess what? That season planted. She says something about it. And, and so even if your kid is nine, 10, 11, 12, just, you just have to,

And again, I go back to observing and putting your phone down. If you observe your kids and you know your kids, you will know where you can plant a seed, where you can find that teachable moment. And they just have to plant a seed and two weeks later, they'll grab it. And it's never too late, never, ever, ever too late, you know?

Cam Hall (27:01.213)

plant the seed, be patient. Yeah, I think we live in a time where we want to see immediate results. And sometimes it doesn't happen that way. Most often it doesn't happen that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Plant a seed and let it grow. I like that. So, go. yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (27:04.275)

the patient.

Leroy Slanzi (27:11.991)

We're the 60 second generation, right? We watch 60 second videos and swipe.

Yeah.

And it's really hard for educators too, right? Like we do the same thing. It's like sometimes with educators, like, you know, if you could see what I see, you would see there's been massive growth, but they just like, right now.

Cam Hall (27:35.037)

Yeah, it's like, you know, we see on social media, was like before and after pictures, but the people who have amazing transformations, they look in the mirror every single day at themselves and they don't see it. And then one day they're walking along and a friend's like, hey, you look great. And they're like, I do. in the moment, you don't see the change. But like you said, teachers, they're like, oh, we wanna see this, we wanna see this. And you're like maybe one step removed where you get to see this kid from, you know.

these gaps in learning, you're like, there's been a lot of movement. I think about my son. I think about my son's own experience in elementary school, which he's just leaving now, and how in grade three was every night crying, I don't want to go to school. Every night, don't want go to school, hated it. And here we are, and two years later, and that kid had such an incredible experience through his grade four, grade five year that he loved school.

Leroy Slanzi (28:08.095)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (28:15.433)

Mm-hmm.

Cam Hall (28:34.437)

And he thrives in the environment. I don't know if he loves school, but I think he loves the, he had purpose and he had, he knew that he could take risks and he had two teachers who let him take risks and let him move and let him stand up and be a helper and do these things to the fact that he's like, he would call himself a leader in his class. Yeah, I'm a class leader. Right? And you just got to let these seeds and the teacher that he went into that grade four classroom and she had heard about

Leroy Slanzi (28:43.336)

Yeah.

Cam Hall (29:04.177)

my son and some of the things, she just planted a seed with them, know, one at a time, one at a time until this point, she's like, man, I learned so much from having that kid in my class. And I just see how much he's learned from having adults who stopped, observed and gave him time.

Leroy Slanzi (29:10.451)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (29:14.311)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (29:20.926)

Yeah, and you know that you stop, you observe and you give them time. And you know, one of the things that I get a lot asked a lot when I, when parents and lots of teachers too, I get a lot of DMs from teachers and stuff. And, and they're, question is when should we introduce technology and like what age? And I, and I just, I laugh and I said, there's no age. I said, you introduce technology to your kids when they are firmly rooted in developing passions. When you know they can go from one passion to the next passion.

to the next passion, because that means they're intrinsically motivated. And one of the big things, you know, growing up for my kids is we camped a lot, right? And so I remember we, you'd always have a chopping block, right? And I would take this, this ax and I would slam my ax as hard as I could into the block. And I would say only the pure heart can pull that out. It's like the whole, right? Take it out of the rock. Who is that guy? The knight that takes out the rock. Sword in the stone, right? And so they would reef on it and reef on it. And my kids are little, right?

Cam Hall (30:08.797)

I'm and take it. Yes. Sword in the stone. Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (30:19.472)

And so they would kind of pry it away and I'm like, yes, you're pure heart. And then I would let them take the ax and swing it. And, my wife at the time would be like, what are you doing? Giving them an ax. like, don't worry about it. I mean, if they miss it's going to be a cut, whatever it's, you know, how dads are right. But just things like that. They, can't, and for three days there'd be like, I want to see who's pure heart. And they, and it was a passion. And, and that's, it's like the four leaf clover, the mermaid tail basketball, volleyball, swimming.

Cam Hall (30:32.719)

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (30:48.717)

whatever it is the kids Lego play-doh whatever they're into Once your kids develop passions and you can see them have that intrinsic motivation to learn and explore and think critically and creative Then you're safe. But if you introduce technology before they have that intrinsic motivation Boy, boy, you're gonna I mean you can still get technology out you have to transition it out But it's gonna be harder. And so for some kids they did they develop

you know, intrinsic motivation by the time they're five, six, seven. you know, I think my kid, my son, he didn't, I didn't have gaming systems when we had COVID, he was 14 or 15. And I'm like, I'm a principal, homeschooling sucked. I couldn't do it. you know, I was like, I can't do this. But anyway, so I'm like, he's like, dad, can I get an Xbox? I'm like, you know what? Sure. And so we got NBA 2K and NFL, we got Madden and all that. And you know what? He played it for the first two or three days. And that was like,

Cam Hall (31:31.229)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (31:45.725)

grabbed his basketball and went outside. And it became now, it's become a lot easier in terms of they both are in Instagram, they both have Snapchat, they both are on their phones, but they both can put their phones down and go to practice for three hours. They can put their phone down and have a conversation with their friends. My son's talking to me about some, he went to a staff party last night and he's 19 and these 21 year old girls were hitting on him. I don't think they know my age, dad, but was chatting him up and I'm like.

Awesome. said, where were your phones? He's like, they're just on the table, but he's talking. He's not like, Hey, can I get your snap? And then he's having real life interactions. It's because early on they developed the intrinsic motivation through my interest. I love fishing. love both of my kids hate it. So that was a big fail for me. but they still love basketball and swimming. So I won there, but, that's the key. I think when parents ask, and that's why I have a tough time and I don't have.

Cam Hall (32:18.779)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (32:41.936)

they've done in Alberta, but in BC, they've completely banned phones in high schools and they've done the same in Ontario. And yeah, and I've had so many conversations with teachers who were unhappy because, and parents who were unhappy because now parents were happy at first, but now guess what those kids are doing when they get home? They are, it's more of a battle for parents to keep their kids off their technology. And then they give up because they don't want to have the battle and they don't know how to micro dose or transition properly.

Cam Hall (32:47.761)

Yeah, they did the same here. Yeah.

Cam Hall (32:58.29)

Mm-hmm.

Leroy Slanzi (33:11.419)

the right behaviors and stuff. you know, I mean, in elementary schools, have no technology besides our stuff in the classroom. So it's not a big deal for us. But I have so many high school senior level high school teachers, like I don't have enough. There's not enough. There's not enough computer carts. The laptops are broken down. They're missing keys. It doesn't work. I wish my my Calculus 11 kids could just grab their phone. And so you're seeing this, this whole hodgepodge of

Cam Hall (33:35.719)

Yes.

Leroy Slanzi (33:40.079)

you know what, well, I'm taking it completely away instead of using education. And I think, and that's the perfect storm of people not knowing what the hell to do, right? And that's the reason why we're on podcasts and you're doing what you're doing and I'm doing what I'm doing, right? So, yeah.

Cam Hall (33:52.4)

Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. Talked a lot about observation, giving space and then challenging and these little pieces that we can do. I just want one more question on that topic. What do you look for? You know, there's the guys that, okay, I'm observing my kid. What am I looking for? How do I know? And this is, I had this conversation with dad at soccer last night. He's like, I don't even know if my kid's a well adjusted kid or not.

Like I just see him and I'm so used to him and then I see him like this in this environment. I'm like my kid's an idiot. He's not like your kid is normal. Trust me. But like what like what are you looking for?

Leroy Slanzi (34:30.275)

Yeah, yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (34:33.979)

Easy for us to say, hey, because we have a standardized view of what kids are like. You know, it's, it's, yeah, we see it all. see it all. And it's funny. It's not what you see. It's about what you feel. every, so you, you have kids, so you know this. When my kids hurt themselves, there's the cry and then there's the cry. And I know when I hear a certain cry,

Cam Hall (34:38.459)

Yeah, we just see so many.

Cam Hall (34:58.482)

Yes.

Leroy Slanzi (35:02.459)

Oh boy, I better go, because I've raised my kids to suck it up, right? I'm that dad. Whatever, sorry. Dad's out there, I'm that dad. Mom, sorry. But I know when there's that cry. Or my son, my son's awesome. He calls me, talks. My daughter, I've got to drag conversations at him. But right away, I can feel it in his voice. All of a sudden, the tone changes and it's like,

Cam Hall (35:02.544)

It's serious.

Cam Hall (35:12.795)

Ha ha.

Leroy Slanzi (35:31.524)

As a parent, you can feel it. And when you're watching, you can, and you're seeing your kids with certain behaviors and all of a sudden you feel a shift, pay attention. Cause it's like something's making you like that dad who was on the soccer field going, this is my son. You know, this is a dad who doesn't know what his son looks like in a group setting, like a classroom, which most parents don't. think that their kids are in a class by themselves and they're angels all the time and whatnot. Right. And the key is for him is to be able or her mums and dads.

is to trust your instinct. when you feel something, again, when your phone is down and you can be sitting in like, think of my daughter with the four-leaf clover and my son with the magnifying glass. It's like, was busy doing something, whatever. I'm like, something's too quiet. Something's, and I look over and we're in BC. And I'm the same thing in Alberta with forest fires are a thing here, right? I'm like, something's, I'm like, holy shit, he's got a little fire going over here because of the magnifying glass.

Cam Hall (36:22.965)

yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (36:31.323)

And I didn't really, I wasn't really observing, but I sensed it because I was still paying attention, but I still doing my own thing. it's, it's, it's, um, yeah. And it's about being in tune. so when you hear the word observe, you think you just be watching and have your glasses on and, and you have to be careful because that's when you become overprotective. That's when you become a helicopter parent or a lawnmower parent and you don't allow it. So it's just, it's more, when you talk about observation, it's that intuition. It's that feeling it's that you sense it and you use all of that connectedness and

Cam Hall (36:36.413)

It's a little too quiet.

Cam Hall (36:57.533)

Connectedness, yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (37:00.791)

And if unfortunately, if you've had your phone in your hand since your child was at birth, you might not know your kid that well. And it goes back to putting your phone down and that dad should have trusted his gut. And then the key thing is if this dad's listening, if there's something in the soccer game that he was like, that was, what a dick. Like I got to talk to, he needs to find one thing, not the 10 things that he didn't like about his kid. And he needs to have that conversation or find the teachable moment to say, Hey, remember when you're doing this? And it's like,

Cam Hall (37:30.012)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (37:30.062)

Let me tell you about a time when I was a kid and what happened to me when that, you know, and, that's one other thing that parents should do is when they do observe and they do interact, tell a story about yourself so your kids know that you're not perfect either. Right? I mean, of course age appropriate stories and whatnot. And it's funny cause now my son's 19 and he's going to backpack through Europe and I was, can now tell him some of the stories that I experienced when I backpacked, right? Which is a lot different than when he was 12.

Cam Hall (37:45.255)

Yes.

Cam Hall (37:51.773)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (37:56.526)

But, and I think that's the key when it comes to that observation piece is you just gotta be in tune and trust your gut, Yeah.

Cam Hall (38:04.273)

Yeah, yeah, and that comes with that connection piece way back at the beginning where you put, yeah, I love it. Hey Roy, man, doing good work. So you mentioned a couple of books. I didn't know you wrote a couple of books. If somebody wants to learn more about your books and what you're doing, where can they find that information?

Leroy Slanzi (38:12.631)

Absolutely.

Leroy Slanzi (38:18.934)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (38:23.514)

Well, they can go to my website which is emotional schools calm and that's where where I get bookings from Like if your school wanted to bring in and do an emotional train your staff and emotional intelligence how to embed it they go there They can email me ask for consultation, but all my resources are our resources are on there My emails on there. That's the best place to go if they want to just find books that I've written They can go to Amazon and I actually have four books that I've written. So I've written

emotional schools, the looming mental health crisis and the pathway through it where I really dive into the science of emotions. Well, first I talk about the storm we're in in terms of education and parenting. And then I talk about the science of emotions and I get into, you know, the brain and all that sort of stuff. And then I've written another book on leadership for guys like you who are trying to lead from an emotionally intelligent place instead of this archaic.

Old school way. I don't know how old the principal is at your school, but they like to do things a certain way. Like I don't have principal's office, for example. Hey, yeah. Right. And so, are you? okay. So hopefully he's a little more, he's progressive. And one of my biggest pet peeves is, is I'm, I'm, there's a teacher that's on the Island right now and she's, she's trying so hard to, to convince her admin group to, to bring me in, to get her staff and her structure emotionally intelligent because

Cam Hall (39:23.651)

same age. my prince, the principal at our school and I are the same age, so it's good.

Leroy Slanzi (39:48.237)

it'll lead to more academic success. just does plain and simply. All your results. But these principals are so old school. They're like, no, no, we better have a professional development on assessment or let's have another literacy workshop. it's like, and meanwhile, 85 % of the schools in the district are chaotic, right? And you can't, it doesn't matter how many literacy workshops, I don't care how good the pedagogy is, if kids can't, and if teachers aren't emotionally intelligent and kids aren't emotionally intelligent, you're going nowhere, right?

Cam Hall (39:59.207)

Yeah.

Yeah

Leroy Slanzi (40:17.785)

You know, that's what I've been trying to do. And then I wrote because a big part of the science of emotions is breathing and self soothing, self regulating. I did a fun little book, 50 breathing strategies for parents and teachers, which you can get on Amazon. And then of course, structured and free play is super important. So my school, I do two recesses and a lunch because I try to encourage free play as much as possible. Because that's where the students are interacting and all those emotional intelligence skills, which was those posters up there is happening. And so I wrote a book.

Cam Hall (40:32.133)

awesome. Okay.

Leroy Slanzi (40:47.705)

called Let's Play Bruh, and it's a book of about 50 games that teachers can use and parents can use. And I called it Let's Play Bruh, because I think my kids have been calling me that. I haven't heard the word dad in a while, so that's kind of spooced on that. So yeah, they can go on Amazon, but my website is where you'll find all the information in terms of what I do, workshops and professional development or keynote speaking or whatever. It's all on there, yeah.

Cam Hall (41:11.741)

Amazing. Leroy, I have a question for you. You mentioned your kids calling you bro. As a dad right now, you're in a point of transition, but as a dad, what's an area that you're excited about or an area of growth that you're diving into?

Leroy Slanzi (41:15.651)

Yeah. Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (41:29.202)

man, you know what? want some vulnerability. This year was, was a bit depressed because my son was gone and because I've coached my son since he was in grade eight, I followed him up like in his grade 11 year, like we were in Oklahoma, Oregon, like we're basketball in it. And, and I coached the senior boys and then he left. I stopped coaching senior boys basketball, stopped being with my son at practices. Then I had, so then I started like

Cam Hall (41:36.477)

Hmm.

Leroy Slanzi (41:57.272)

clinging to my daughter with volleyball. take her to all her tournaments. can't go to her practices and I'd like to come in, but she won't let me. you know, I'm trying to come to grips with the fact that my daughter's going into grade 12. My son's home now and he's driving me nuts and I wish he was back at college. But I think what we have to do, and this is to the dads out there and to yourself, you need to make sure that you're cherishing your kids when they're little. When they want that extra story at night, don't get frustrated. If they want to stay in the bathtub for 10 minutes.

Let them stand for 10 minutes. One of the things I'm learning here, I hope this isn't offensive, but I'm being in an Indigenous community, I'm learning a lot about Indian time. And, you know, there's a stigma attached to it where they think Indigenous people are lazy, but that's not what it's about. Indian time is about stopping and smelling the roses. And we don't have bells at the school. And I've really learned how to just embrace the moment, whether it takes an extra five minutes or you get finished five minutes sooner. And I really encourage parents

to enjoy when your kids are little and you're looking for that four leaf clover and they turn into teenagers to go to every game. It doesn't matter if you're tired and you're going into work with greasy pants and your hands are, and I think, you know, in terms of where I am and the depressed feeling I have this year, missing my boy and being that dad there and all his buddies not coming around anymore and is to cherish it, is to cherish it because

that the whole phrase empty nester, I didn't know what it meant until this year. And I think I'm trying to come to grips with how I'm going to transition. Yeah, I've actually, you know, it's funny. I decided that I haven't told my staff yet is I'm actually going to co-teach a grade five, six class. I need to, I miss, I'm, yeah, I'm, I'm prepping to teach math. I hate math, but I'm prepping to teach it because I just,

Cam Hall (43:48.637)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (43:55.566)

I'm feeling like I'm missing it, you know? And maybe once Evie is gone, I'll be like, okay, cool. I'll find, you know, I'll fish more and whatnot. But yeah, that's, I guess I don't know if that's the answer you're looking for, what you're looking for, but yeah, it's a real, your kids are, when you have kids and you love them and you pay attention and yeah, it can be a bit sad when they leave. Yeah.

Cam Hall (44:10.79)

incredible.

Cam Hall (44:19.389)

I appreciate you being honest and open and man, those are the best answers. And when guys are just like, no, this is just how it is. So no, thank you for sharing. Well, Leroy, I appreciate you coming on the podcast. Great conversation. I wish you all the best as you head into a little bit of a break now, but into a new adventure going back to a grade five co-teaching position. yeah, thanks for coming on the podcast.

Leroy Slanzi (44:26.198)

Yeah, no problem man, no problem.

Leroy Slanzi (44:38.102)

Yeah.

Leroy Slanzi (44:41.717)

Yeah, Yeah, thanks for having me, Cam. It's been great, buddy.