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My name is Matt Edmundson, and
beside me is the talented and

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beautiful debonair gorgeous, Sadaf
Beynon who is the show's producer.

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It's great that you're here with us.

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Why are you laughing?

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Uh, in our August series, uh, what we're
doing, uh, dear listener, is if you

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didn't catch last week's episode, August
is a little bit different, isn't it?

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August is one of those
funny months of the year.

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And so we had all kinds of grand
plans for August this year, but alas!

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We decided to change it very last minute.

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Uh, these episodes, uh, where Sadaf
and I have a little chat about things

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that we have learned along the way
from e commerce cohorts, we're going

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to explain what e commerce cohort is.

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We're going to talk about the lessons
today from Oliver Spark's workshop,

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um, what they meant for our business,
our e commerce business, and just

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to give you a little flavor of
what's going on behind the scenes.

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It's going to be a cut down
version of the show, of the

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podcast, because we appreciate.

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August is one of those things.

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It's just one of those months where...

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Most of the world seems to shut down.

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So, uh, yeah, hopefully
that'll make sense.

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Uh, does that make sense?

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I don't know.

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I, I, I know what we're doing.

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I don't know if I've
explained it well enough.

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Yep.

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Makes sense.

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Makes good sense.

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Carry on.

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Good.

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Good.

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That's the main thing.

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So cohort, let's talk about cohort because
cohort sponsors e commerce podcast.

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If you're a regular listener to
the show, you will have heard me

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say something along the lines of.

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This show is sponsored by eCommerce
Cohort, uh, and, uh, eCommerce

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Cohort is something that we do.

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It's part of our business network, for
want of a better expression, um, and

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it's, it's basically training, eCommerce
training that you can sign up to, uh,

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and the way it works is every month we
do an expert workshop, um, and we do

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a mixture of coaching and Q& As around
that expert workshop to help you extract.

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The best parts of it for your
business, um, and we say, listen,

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take away like three or four key,
key points from that workshop.

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Figure out how it's going
to apply to your business.

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We help you with that with coaching.

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Uh, any questions you've
got, we do with like Q& A.

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And then hopefully it helps
you grow your business.

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It's kind of like e commerce
podcast, but on speed.

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It's kind of really focused on
being hyper practical, isn't it?

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And the workshops are hyper practical,
uh, from these great guests.

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So, that's kind of how it works.

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Have I missed anything?

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No,

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no, not at all.

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All there?

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Yep, all there.

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All there.

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Awesome.

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That's amazing, right?

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As long as I've got it all there.

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So, which one are we doing today, Mrs.

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Beynon?

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What cohort episode shall we do?

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Or cohorts?

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All right.

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So we're going to keep, um, going
with the momentum from last week, or a

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few minutes ago, with a peek into the
number crunching world of e commerce.

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Don't tell

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her that.

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There's that.

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Don't, don't say that.

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Because everyone's like, What do
you mean from a few minutes ago?

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No, no, no, no, no.

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We obviously record these episodes
once a week to keep on top of it.

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We don't batch record in any way.

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That was just a slip.

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It just, yeah, so happens.

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Matt, you're wearing the same
top that you were wearing before.

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But that's okay, you know, it
just is what it is, really.

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But no, we recorded episode 1
and then we've gone straight

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into episode 2 for August, so
behind the scenes full exposure.

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We are doing these back to back, uh,
recordings and we're not going to get

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them all done are we today because of
time, but um, but that's what we're doing

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because August, we tend to not be around
as much, so, uh, we appreciate you're on

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holiday, but we're on holiday as well, so.

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Uh, just clarifying, we're not being
lazy, but yeah, so I'm from a few, sorry,

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I totally interrupted your flow then.

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What were you talking about?

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No, no, that's okay.

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I was saying that, um, today
we're going to be diving into

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the number crunching worlds of e
commerce metrics with Oliver Spark.

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So we're going to be talking about the
lessons we learned from his workshop

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and, um, how about we start with...

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Um, you know, we're talking about
the, the three letter abbreviations

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that we have all over e commerce.

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So AOV and And, um, you
know, all that good stuff.

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So, Matt, do you want to jump in?

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Do you want to, um,

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talk about that?

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Do you want to build a snowman?

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No, it's, um, Uh, yeah, we'll talk
about Oliver, Spark, and metrics.

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I think what you need to...

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Do though.

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Sadaf mm-hmm.

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, I just sort talk about some
of the lessons that we have.

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You should go into ChatGPT and see if
you can come up with a much sexier title

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or description than we're gonna do some
number crunching and metrics because

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it's just one of those things, things.

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Uh, it's math.

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I don't care.

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Listen,

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I think, I don't think it matters
what kind of title you give it.

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It's always gonna be like that.

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. 
No.

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Well, your challenge is to go try
and find a different, anyway, , uh.

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Now, uh, full disclosure, uh, Oliver's
workshop at the time of recording

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was one of the most recent ones.

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We've got Monica coming up in
August, um, which I'm really looking

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forward to, but Oliver's is the
most recent workshop that we've had.

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And whilst metrics can sound a bit
dull and uninteresting, Oliver made

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it actually really really interesting.

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Um, and we learned a lot from this.

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We watched the workshop
as a, as a company.

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We went through it.

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We had lots and lots of conversations.

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Um, lots of conversations.

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And Oliver has been on
the podcast as well.

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So if you caught that episode,
you'll know that Oliver is in

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fact from The White Company.

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He was one of the guys that
sort of got it to where it is.

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Um, it's a huge company here in the  UK.

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And so he took it, I think, from
six million at that point, upwards.

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I can't remember the exact time
he joined, but he knows retail.

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And one part of his story is the
discovering of sort of key metrics,

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which really helps him understand
the growth of his business.

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And this is what he was talking about and
how we can do it in a super practical way.

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So, and the reason I liked Oliver's
workshop is because he agreed with me.

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Oh, yes.

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Now this is, it's a beautiful thing
when you come across experts who

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say the same thing that you do.

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Makes me feel good about myself.

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Now he was, um, a bit like when we
talked about Vance Morris in last

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week's episode a few minutes ago.

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Uh, he agreed with me about a
few things now, um, about touch

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points, but Oliver talked about key
metrics, which you need to measure.

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And we've talked about it
somewhere in our office.

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There are three key metrics that
you have to be really aware of.

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Uh, the number of new customers you
have, the average order value, and

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what I call customer frequency, but
what Oliver calls AOC, which is the

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average number of orders per customer.

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I call it customer order frequency,
it's the same thing, um, but this is

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basically how many times a customer
will place an order with you.

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Uh, say over a 12 month period.

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So if they place two orders a year, can
I increase that to three orders a year?

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For example, if I can, I'm going to
increase my business by a third, right?

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So if I can increase average
order value by a third, I'll

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grow my business by a third.

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If I can increase new customers by a
third, I'll grow my business by a third.

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The cool thing is if I increase the
number of customers and the average

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order value and the customer order
frequency, if I can increase all

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three at the same time, uh, I don't.

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I get geometric growth, if that
makes sense, which is where it

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starts to become quite beautiful.

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Anyway, he talked about this, Oliver,
he talked about tracking the number of

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new customers, um, the customer order
frequency and average order value,

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which was great for us, just validation
that we were on the right track, um,

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and really liked how he was thinking.

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Love how he's got something called Sweet
Analytics, a little bit of software.

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If you're looking for a
dashboard, check it out.

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Um, It's uh, we're, we're having a little
play on it at the moment actually with,

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uh, with one of our e com companies, um,
because it tracks these three metrics

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really well, which I, which for me are
really key metrics, if that makes sense.

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So, um, yeah, that was really, really
good, really validating and just.

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Again, looking at that
from our point of view.

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One of the things that came out of
it, he said this on the podcast and

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he also said this in the workshop.

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Um, and he talked about it on the, in the
workshop a little bit more, which I've

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never really heard anybody talk about.

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And this was, um, you know, when you
get these sort of little aha moments

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when someone's talking, you write it
in your notes and you star something

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or you draw, I draw boxes around things
because I thought it was super cool.

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The way Oliver mentioned this, he
said, you need to understand the

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number of new customers you have
to have to get your growth target.

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So if you want to grow from 1 million
to 5 million over the next three years,

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how many customers do you need in
year one, in year two, in year three?

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What are the new, what are, so
don't just tell me you want to

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go from 1 million to 5 million.

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Translate that down.

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to actually how many new customers
you need to go and get, right?

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And so this was super powerful because
everyone's growth target I've ever come

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across is we want to grow by 20 percent.

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So it's either a percentage growth or
we want to grow by a turnover number.

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We want to grow by A million pounds.

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We want to grow by three hundred
thousand dollars a year or whatever

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your growth targets are, right?

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And everyone defines it in those
two terms where oliver came in

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and did something differently.

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He says, oh, these are great
Actually, what does that mean in

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terms of number of new customers?

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And so to understand the answer to that
question, you've got to understand how

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many of the customers How much customer
buys what's the average order value?

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What's that customer free?

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You know how many times they come back?

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What that has, you've got to extrapolate
that with some clever maths in Microsoft

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Excel or use sweet analytics either way.

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Um, to come up with a magic number.

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So if I know actually to reach my growth
targets, I need 2, 446 new customers.

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Well, that becomes quite
defined, doesn't it?

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That becomes quite, um, becomes a
lot easier from a marketing point of

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view to go, Right, go and get me two
and a half thousand new customers.

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Um, the third lesson, obviously, Oliver
talks about them following on from that

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is CAC, your customer acquisition cost.

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So understand how many
new customers you need.

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What it costs to go and get a new customer
and obviously that needs to be lower than

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the value they bring to your business.

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Otherwise you have problems
and you're hemorrhaging cash.

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But so let's say a customer average
order value is a hundred bucks, but

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it costs you 30 bucks to go get the
client and you need 2000 of them.

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Does your marketing budget then have a
60, 000, um, Allowance in it to go and

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get those 2, 000 new customers, right?

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So your marketing budget is set
around the number of customers you

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need to go get, um, which I thought
was very clever, very insightful.

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Obviously, there's other things that we
need to include in our marketing budget,

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email marketing, repeat purchases, and
all that sort of stuff, which is great,

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but in terms of customer acquisition,
going and getting new customers, the

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big takeaway for me, can you define the
number of new customers that you need?

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What's the cost of getting them and does
your marketing then align with those?

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Things now he talks about that much
more in the workshop and gives you

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some great ideas about how to measure
them how to do them and But that

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was the powerful takeaway Mm hmm.

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Yeah, a growth strategy that is
cognizant of the value of new

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customers is it's quite game changing
Isn't it for an e commerce business?

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It's not like yeah, but the metrics
help to to guide the The direction

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of your business, but having that
information makes it seem like

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it takes it to a different level.

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Yeah, it does.

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And this is true whether you're starting
out, uh, whether you're brand new to e

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commerce or whether you've been, you know,
like me, you've been around a while and

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you're a bit of a dinosaur in e commerce.

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Um, but this ability to translate it
down, like I need to go and get 500

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new customers this month and just track
that and relentlessly track it and

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go, am I, am I going to be on target?

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Yes or no?

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There's obviously more to it and
Oliver covers that in the workshop.

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But you're right, it's one of
those, um, things that is, it's game

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changing because it's very definable.

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It's certainly quantifiable, um,
and, and going after that, I think

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then becomes, um, becomes one of your
primary aims really, uh, in eCommerce.

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And so really valued
that workshop, you know.

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We've had a lot of conversations since
actually, a lot of questions came in,

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gone back and forth with him on some
of the answers to those questions.

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Really intrigued by some of
the ways he measures things

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and, um, yeah, fascinating guy.

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We're doing actually a joint call this
week, um, with a company, which I'm

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really looking forward to actually be
really interested to see how he works.

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Um, and the other thing I'm looking
forward to is getting behind the

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scenes on his dashboard software, um,
and to see what that comes up with.

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Because I've not actually, I've
seen some screenshots of it.

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Oliver's showing me a bit of stuff, but
I'm getting into play on it and stuff.

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It'd be quite cool.

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So yeah, do check him out.

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Oliver, Oliver spark.

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You can find out more
information at sweet analytics.

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I think it's sweet analytics.

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com.

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It is.

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It is.

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Yeah.

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Now, when we did the workshop, uh, the way
we do this, ladies and gentlemen, you will

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not know this because you've never been in
how we do this, but what we do is we get

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everyone around and monitor in the office.

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We watch, uh, the workshop and we
usually have someone leading that.

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It's not me.

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All the time.

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In fact, it's very rarely me.

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It's like if it's a marketing sprint,
Jen, who heads up marketing, will do it.

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Um, and so Jen will get everybody around.

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She'll bring cakes or
pastries in or something.

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We'll sit in the room and watch
it on a Tuesday morning, the, the

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workshop, and then we'll chat about it.

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Tomorrow is actually a Tuesday.

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Last week, we watched Oliver's, uh, Um,
but you weren't there, because you are in

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sunny Canada, you were not in the office,
you were on your extended trip away,

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thanks to digital, it's like, I'm going
to have two weeks off and then I'm just

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going to stay in Canada for three weeks,
I will work in Canada, is what I will do,

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as I'm hanging out by the pool with my
family, and then I'll be back at the end

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of July, we're like, yeah, okay, whatever.

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So you actually missed
this one, didn't you?

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You missed this whole workshop sprint.

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I did.

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I did, yeah.

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I see.

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Miss it, miss it.

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What can I say?

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What can I say?

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So yeah, that was, um, that was Oliver.

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And I think if you want to know more
about Oliver, do check out his podcast.

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His podcast was super cool.

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I really enjoyed it.

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And in fact, it was his
podcast, he came on as a guest.

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This is normally what happens with cohort.

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I, I interviewed people on the podcast
and I thought Oliver is such a legend.

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I thought he could do super
well on one of the workshops.

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Um, and so he offered to do the workshop.

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He did this hour long extra training.

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The workshops are only
about an hour, by the way.

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They're not like four hours long.

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We, we, uh, we have the, the
workshops, uh, delivered in an

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hour or under, uh, has to be there.

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Because we want it all to be lightweight.

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We want, we don't want, we don't
want to add to the overwhelm

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because we're already overwhelmed.

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I mean, uh, so yeah, we
don't want to do that.

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But, um, if you want to know
more about cohort, do check

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it out, e commerce cohort.

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com.

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Obviously any questions you
can email us and we will try

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our level best to answer them.

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But if you would like to join e
commerce cohort, we would love to

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see you in the, in the membership.

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00:15:16,748 --> 00:15:19,918
And of course, absolutely no
pressure to do that whatsoever.

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00:15:20,428 --> 00:15:22,398
Just stay subscribed to the podcast.

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00:15:22,408 --> 00:15:23,678
You're also going to
learn a lot from that.

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00:15:24,778 --> 00:15:26,888
It's a win win scenario, I feel.

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00:15:27,918 --> 00:15:28,838
Win win, right?

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00:15:29,328 --> 00:15:30,508
So yeah, awesome.

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Uh, cool.

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00:15:32,018 --> 00:15:33,558
Anything else from you, Mrs.

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00:15:33,558 --> 00:15:34,598
Beynon?

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00:15:35,018 --> 00:15:35,478
Uh, no.

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00:15:35,868 --> 00:15:36,988
I think, um,

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00:15:37,098 --> 00:15:37,718
I think we're good.

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00:15:38,878 --> 00:15:40,918
Think we are good, which is great.

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00:15:40,938 --> 00:15:42,878
So, let me play this.

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00:15:44,638 --> 00:15:47,028
Let's have a theme tune in the background
because it's time to end the show.

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00:15:47,028 --> 00:15:52,078
Thank you so much for listening to
our special August series where we've

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00:15:52,078 --> 00:15:53,918
looked at, uh, Cohort with Oliver Spark.

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00:15:53,918 --> 00:15:57,828
Next week, we are looking at
marketing personas with Neil Hort.

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00:15:57,868 --> 00:15:59,848
I'm laughing because I don't actually know
when we're going to record the next one.

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00:16:00,198 --> 00:16:01,698
So we're going to get into that.

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00:16:02,318 --> 00:16:04,348
Uh, obviously all that's left
for me to say is you are awesome.

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00:16:05,208 --> 00:16:05,918
created awesome.

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00:16:05,938 --> 00:16:07,638
Always like to finish the
podcast off with this.

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00:16:07,678 --> 00:16:08,328
Positive note.

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It's just a burden you have to bear.

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00:16:09,668 --> 00:16:10,668
Sadaf has to bear it.

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00:16:11,183 --> 00:16:12,033
I've got to bear it.

348
00:16:12,413 --> 00:16:13,503
You've got to bear it too.

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00:16:13,873 --> 00:16:16,713
Uh, have a fantastic week
wherever you are in the world.

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00:16:16,883 --> 00:16:18,273
I've seen all the
music's finished already.

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00:16:18,363 --> 00:16:21,093
I talked way too long Fantastic.

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00:16:21,213 --> 00:16:21,873
Let me play it again.

353
00:16:22,463 --> 00:16:23,143
Uh, there we go.

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00:16:23,423 --> 00:16:29,583
Have a fantastic week It's the high
professionalism here Have a fantastic

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00:16:29,583 --> 00:16:34,483
week wherever you are in the world
We'll see you next time Bye for now