1 00:00:00,583 --> 00:00:04,295 That's the other thing about this movement is that they're not oversimplifying it 2 00:00:04,295 --> 00:00:07,424 anymore, like where it used to be like, oh, you're having panic attacks. 3 00:00:07,424 --> 00:00:09,050 Take this pill. 4 00:00:09,050 --> 00:00:09,134 Take this pill. 5 00:00:09,134 --> 00:00:11,469 The trauma informed movement is actually saying, actually, 6 00:00:11,469 --> 00:00:13,013 there's a relational aspect 7 00:00:13,013 --> 00:00:16,224 that is so needed for people who have experienced trauma. 8 00:00:16,975 --> 00:00:21,271 And so I wonder if the corollary for that in our church setting, 9 00:00:21,771 --> 00:00:24,983 maybe the lesson for us is that respect 10 00:00:24,983 --> 00:00:27,986 and humility in our relationships 11 00:00:28,111 --> 00:00:30,947 is more healing for trauma than prescribing a Bible verse 12 00:00:30,947 --> 00:00:32,699 is more healing for trauma than prescribing a Bible verse 13 00:00:32,991 --> 00:00:36,369 or thinking that because I prayed for you, you should be better now. 14 00:00:42,667 --> 00:00:43,209 Janelle, 15 00:00:43,209 --> 00:00:46,171 thank you for joining us for this episode. 16 00:00:46,421 --> 00:00:49,299 We're here to talk about trauma informed churches. 17 00:00:49,299 --> 00:00:50,800 So to begin. 18 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:54,012 How did you become interested in helping churches 19 00:00:54,012 --> 00:00:57,015 become trauma informed? 20 00:00:57,015 --> 00:00:59,434 Well, little by little, 21 00:00:59,434 --> 00:01:02,437 again, birthed in my own experience, 22 00:01:03,271 --> 00:01:05,940 of sitting with people who were clearly 23 00:01:05,940 --> 00:01:08,610 their bodies were under distress in the moment. 24 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:13,531 So sitting with someone who, who was trying to talk but couldn't 25 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,286 Early on in my coaching experience, I had a client 26 00:01:18,286 --> 00:01:22,248 who who had a complete freeze response, like in their body. 27 00:01:22,248 --> 00:01:23,917 They weren't able to speak. 28 00:01:23,917 --> 00:01:25,668 They weren't able to move. 29 00:01:25,668 --> 00:01:28,671 And thankfully, I had had enough training that I knew 30 00:01:28,671 --> 00:01:31,674 what to do to help with that response in the body. 31 00:01:32,383 --> 00:01:36,179 so recognizing that it's real, that the brain and the nervous system 32 00:01:36,179 --> 00:01:39,516 actually can be so activated 33 00:01:39,516 --> 00:01:42,519 by a memory or something from the past 34 00:01:42,644 --> 00:01:46,648 that in the present we're not functioning well or barely functioning at all. 35 00:01:47,023 --> 00:01:50,026 So first of all, actually encountering 36 00:01:50,068 --> 00:01:53,988 what trauma can do to a person's body and to their health, 37 00:01:54,656 --> 00:01:58,785 and then also bridging that into the life of the church, 38 00:01:58,785 --> 00:02:02,122 realizing how quickly, how easy it can be 39 00:02:02,122 --> 00:02:05,917 to make judgments of that when we don't understand what it is 40 00:02:06,459 --> 00:02:10,630 like when we see someone who's not able, to speak in the way that they would 41 00:02:10,630 --> 00:02:14,801 want to, or a very opposite response is a fight response, right? 42 00:02:15,218 --> 00:02:19,180 So like just the lashing out that can happen when we're afraid. 43 00:02:19,889 --> 00:02:22,308 so when I headed into studies to learn 44 00:02:22,308 --> 00:02:27,063 better how to support and care for people with the more difficult 45 00:02:27,063 --> 00:02:30,942 experiences, I actually didn't have a word for what I was looking for. 46 00:02:30,942 --> 00:02:32,861 I just I knew there was more to learn. 47 00:02:32,861 --> 00:02:36,114 And I think that the word that what I found in this idea 48 00:02:36,114 --> 00:02:39,617 of being trauma informed kind of encapsulates 49 00:02:39,659 --> 00:02:43,246 the thing that I was seeing a need for in our communities. 50 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,709 I didn't realize yet that people in mainstream communities, 51 00:02:47,709 --> 00:02:53,298 like schools and businesses and hospitals were also asking a similar question. 52 00:02:53,298 --> 00:02:55,758 Like they were saying, we're trying to help, but 53 00:02:55,758 --> 00:02:59,220 there's something we're not understanding that sometimes gets in the way. 54 00:02:59,888 --> 00:03:04,684 And awareness was growing at large about the impacts of traumatic life 55 00:03:04,684 --> 00:03:09,856 events on human beings long term emotional health or mental health 56 00:03:10,690 --> 00:03:14,485 and the ways that it was interfering with healthy functioning at work 57 00:03:14,485 --> 00:03:19,490 or in families or in any kind of community trying to come together. 58 00:03:20,074 --> 00:03:22,827 So this phrase, trauma informed care 59 00:03:22,827 --> 00:03:25,830 is now it is a mainstream idea, 60 00:03:26,039 --> 00:03:28,791 but I think it has a lot of, again, 61 00:03:28,791 --> 00:03:33,338 it has a lot to call us to even in our church settings. 62 00:03:34,422 --> 00:03:37,217 So when we talk about being trauma informed, we're not saying 63 00:03:37,217 --> 00:03:40,845 we should all go out and get like we shouldn't be able to treat the trauma. 64 00:03:40,887 --> 00:03:43,097 It's different than that. We're not. 65 00:03:43,097 --> 00:03:46,476 When we're talking about being trauma informed, it's more understanding 66 00:03:46,893 --> 00:03:51,231 that it exists and what it can look like and how it can interfere. 67 00:03:51,231 --> 00:03:54,651 And then and then what are the resources for help? 68 00:03:54,651 --> 00:03:59,572 Because we don't want to we don't want to add more into that picture. 69 00:04:00,448 --> 00:04:03,534 so I've become interested in how trauma informed 70 00:04:03,534 --> 00:04:07,872 churches could better extend grace and light of Jesus. 71 00:04:08,998 --> 00:04:12,502 for the people who are joining us from any place in their lives, 72 00:04:13,461 --> 00:04:17,966 if we actually understood more about the threat responses in the body, 73 00:04:17,966 --> 00:04:21,094 which is essentially what trauma or PTSD is, 74 00:04:21,386 --> 00:04:24,347 so it's threat responses in our bodies. 75 00:04:26,099 --> 00:04:26,683 if we could 76 00:04:26,683 --> 00:04:29,686 understand a little more of the physicality of that, 77 00:04:29,686 --> 00:04:32,689 might we be able to make more space inside 78 00:04:33,731 --> 00:04:37,068 our churches for more compassion and less fear? 79 00:04:38,027 --> 00:04:41,614 And would we be able to actually be able to have more presence 80 00:04:41,614 --> 00:04:46,035 to people who are in trauma experiences and less pressure? 81 00:04:47,036 --> 00:04:49,998 And could we have more learning and less judgment? 82 00:04:50,581 --> 00:04:53,501 So where we're actually curious to understand 83 00:04:53,501 --> 00:04:56,045 rather than just being like something's terribly wrong. 84 00:04:56,045 --> 00:04:59,173 And we, you know, rather than the shaming and the judgment. 85 00:05:01,426 --> 00:05:03,845 Before we go further into this conversation, 86 00:05:03,845 --> 00:05:06,806 I think it would be helpful to define terms. 87 00:05:07,098 --> 00:05:10,310 So you began to define trauma a small bit already. 88 00:05:10,768 --> 00:05:14,355 But I understand that trauma is a term that can be used technically. 89 00:05:14,814 --> 00:05:20,611 So when used technically, what does trauma mean? Yes. 90 00:05:20,653 --> 00:05:23,406 What is trauma? Well, I went to find the definition. 91 00:05:24,407 --> 00:05:25,658 To serve this purpose. 92 00:05:25,658 --> 00:05:30,330 So this is the definition that's understood and accepted. 93 00:05:30,371 --> 00:05:33,374 it may not be as defined as people wish, but 94 00:05:33,708 --> 00:05:36,794 it can be defined as any experience 95 00:05:37,545 --> 00:05:40,631 which causes a person to feel terror 96 00:05:41,424 --> 00:05:45,261 or powerlessness or overwhelmed, 97 00:05:46,095 --> 00:05:49,098 and that challenges their capacity to cope. 98 00:05:49,891 --> 00:05:51,893 it leaves an imprint. 99 00:05:51,893 --> 00:05:56,064 So this is more like the the body research now language. 100 00:05:56,064 --> 00:05:59,067 It leaves an imprint on the person's nervous system, 101 00:05:59,859 --> 00:06:02,862 their emotions, their body, 102 00:06:02,862 --> 00:06:05,865 their learning and their relationships. 103 00:06:06,657 --> 00:06:10,078 So one thing I think that's really helpful to note here is that 104 00:06:10,078 --> 00:06:15,500 I think sometimes we think, well, only certain experiences qualify as traumatic. 105 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:18,127 We just have this list and then that's it. 106 00:06:18,127 --> 00:06:21,881 But actually it's the way the person responds 107 00:06:22,340 --> 00:06:25,343 that tells us more about if it was trauma or not. 108 00:06:25,551 --> 00:06:29,722 So like if it was overwhelming for them, if they felt powerless. 109 00:06:30,264 --> 00:06:34,644 if there was terror involved for them and it kept them 110 00:06:34,644 --> 00:06:38,731 from being able to function in the way that they would have wanted to function. 111 00:06:39,482 --> 00:06:42,193 That's when we're talking about trauma being at play. 112 00:06:43,569 --> 00:06:46,364 So if we're looking at it from the perspective 113 00:06:46,364 --> 00:06:50,118 of how the person experiences it, would it be possible 114 00:06:50,118 --> 00:06:53,079 that you could have two people in a similar situation? 115 00:06:53,538 --> 00:06:57,125 And for one, they would experience it as trauma for the other person. 116 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,003 They would not experience it as trauma. Yes. 117 00:07:01,003 --> 00:07:02,380 That's right. 118 00:07:02,380 --> 00:07:06,551 and if people want more understanding of why that is, it's multiple factors. 119 00:07:06,551 --> 00:07:10,888 Again, it can be related to everything that's come in their life before. 120 00:07:11,389 --> 00:07:11,722 Right? 121 00:07:11,722 --> 00:07:16,644 So if it's a first encounter with being feeling powerless, 122 00:07:17,145 --> 00:07:20,106 then it may not have near as big an impact. 123 00:07:20,106 --> 00:07:23,818 But if that person has had lots of experiences where they have felt 124 00:07:23,818 --> 00:07:28,823 powerless leading up to this one, then it brings in a whole it. 125 00:07:28,823 --> 00:07:30,700 It brings in a whole, 126 00:07:32,118 --> 00:07:35,204 It's like a bigger sense of that because it, 127 00:07:35,580 --> 00:07:39,542 it brings an accumulated effect, I think, into that moment. 128 00:07:40,126 --> 00:07:43,504 So my husband and I were talking about this recently and he said, is it 129 00:07:44,338 --> 00:07:46,841 possible, for someone 130 00:07:46,841 --> 00:07:52,013 to be deeply wounded, even if it wasn't the intent of the person 131 00:07:52,263 --> 00:07:55,141 in who was, who they would say did the wounding? 132 00:07:55,141 --> 00:07:59,437 And I say, absolutely, because we are always interacting, 133 00:07:59,437 --> 00:08:03,816 not just in the moment, but with moments that have come before, 134 00:08:03,983 --> 00:08:06,986 like it's present in the way we're responding to each other. 135 00:08:07,653 --> 00:08:09,739 Yeah, 136 00:08:09,739 --> 00:08:12,492 and that's true with trauma, too. 137 00:08:12,492 --> 00:08:16,412 Adverse life experiences in childhood are one. 138 00:08:16,454 --> 00:08:20,541 That's one of the things once people start reading about trauma experienced, 139 00:08:20,958 --> 00:08:25,046 the way a person responds to trauma later in life has a lot to do with 140 00:08:25,588 --> 00:08:28,674 some of the adverse life experiences that came before. 141 00:08:30,426 --> 00:08:33,429 How widespread is trauma 142 00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:36,182 and how is it 143 00:08:36,182 --> 00:08:39,143 expressed by those who have experienced it? 144 00:08:39,602 --> 00:08:41,729 Very good questions. 145 00:08:41,729 --> 00:08:45,942 so again I, I went to see kind of what research is showing for that 146 00:08:45,942 --> 00:08:49,278 because I don't have a way of answering that for the world at large. 147 00:08:49,779 --> 00:08:55,243 The National Council for Mental Well-Being states that 70% of adults in 148 00:08:55,243 --> 00:09:00,206 the US have experienced at least one traumatic event in their lifetime. 149 00:09:00,540 --> 00:09:02,166 Okay, so that sounds big, right? 150 00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:07,129 70% of us are going to be we're going to feel powerless at least once in our life. 151 00:09:07,129 --> 00:09:10,132 We're going to feel overwhelmed and powerless at least once. 152 00:09:10,341 --> 00:09:13,344 This doesn't mean that they're going to continue 153 00:09:13,386 --> 00:09:16,389 to carry that sense of trauma with them, though. 154 00:09:16,931 --> 00:09:21,727 there was another government study done on PTSD in the US that states that 155 00:09:21,727 --> 00:09:27,191 8% of women and 4% of men will experience, 156 00:09:27,191 --> 00:09:31,821 like post-traumatic stress disorder at some point in their lives. 157 00:09:31,821 --> 00:09:35,074 And that's more what we're looking at when we're talking about this, 158 00:09:35,116 --> 00:09:40,580 these trauma interactions that show up in our lives and communities. 159 00:09:40,580 --> 00:09:41,122 Because. 160 00:09:42,540 --> 00:09:44,959 Because it means that we're still 161 00:09:44,959 --> 00:09:49,130 we're still responding in our bodies and in our thinking and in our 162 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,759 relationships, as if that trauma was still happening, even if it isn't. 163 00:09:54,385 --> 00:09:58,139 So when we're talking about PTSD, it's as if we're living it again 164 00:09:58,139 --> 00:10:01,142 now, even if it's not happening now. 165 00:10:01,976 --> 00:10:05,980 So many of us can experience a traumatic event, and then we keep living 166 00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:09,942 and we know it's in the past and we're not living out of it now. 167 00:10:10,776 --> 00:10:13,279 But the PTSD when we're talking about PTSD, 168 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:16,282 we're talking about it's still 169 00:10:16,282 --> 00:10:19,660 impeding us now, even if it's not happening now. 170 00:10:22,872 --> 00:10:25,875 some examples of 171 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:27,793 what people experience. 172 00:10:27,793 --> 00:10:31,797 That's what you had asked about, what people are experiencing in the moment, 173 00:10:31,797 --> 00:10:34,800 even when the difficult thing is no longer happening, 174 00:10:35,301 --> 00:10:38,971 they might think about it and still have panic attacks, right? 175 00:10:39,013 --> 00:10:42,266 Like their heart rate will get, their heart rate will go fast 176 00:10:42,266 --> 00:10:45,978 and their breathing will get heavy or and short of breath. 177 00:10:46,062 --> 00:10:48,648 so it might be panic attacks. 178 00:10:48,648 --> 00:10:52,943 It might be the shutdown that I told you about earlier where someone 179 00:10:53,903 --> 00:10:55,321 we're talking about an event 180 00:10:55,321 --> 00:10:59,992 that happened in their past and, and they start talking slower and, 181 00:11:00,409 --> 00:11:04,705 and then if it's a complete freeze, they actually stop talking. 182 00:11:04,789 --> 00:11:07,291 They can't they can't talk about it. 183 00:11:07,291 --> 00:11:08,918 That's a trauma response. 184 00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:12,213 recurring flashbacks that bring the event back 185 00:11:12,213 --> 00:11:16,384 and all of those symptoms in the present, debilitating shame. 186 00:11:16,384 --> 00:11:20,262 And also, I think a lot of addictions, are fueled 187 00:11:20,763 --> 00:11:27,770 by this sense of unresolved trauma from somewhere before the addiction. 188 00:11:28,396 --> 00:11:31,315 But we're often trying to soothe and comfort 189 00:11:31,315 --> 00:11:33,859 something that's overwhelming for us. 190 00:11:33,859 --> 00:11:35,903 And this helps us cope. 191 00:11:35,903 --> 00:11:38,906 So addictions are another, flag 192 00:11:39,115 --> 00:11:42,118 for unresolved trauma. 193 00:11:42,159 --> 00:11:44,328 You have quoted somebody else as stating 194 00:11:44,328 --> 00:11:47,331 that trauma is perhaps the most avoided, 195 00:11:47,832 --> 00:11:50,710 ignored, belittled, denied, 196 00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:54,422 misunderstood, and untreated cause of human suffering. 197 00:11:55,506 --> 00:11:58,050 Do you think that this assessment is true? 198 00:11:58,050 --> 00:12:00,052 And if so, 199 00:12:00,052 --> 00:12:02,930 why is it that way? 200 00:12:02,930 --> 00:12:04,765 well, I think there's truth in the statement. 201 00:12:04,765 --> 00:12:10,104 though there are many other ways to suffer too, right? 202 00:12:10,104 --> 00:12:12,773 So of course, my brain is like, well, is it at the most? 203 00:12:12,773 --> 00:12:15,609 And, you know, there'd be something about that to talk about. 204 00:12:15,609 --> 00:12:16,193 But so there are many ways to suffer that are not all that. 205 00:12:16,193 --> 00:12:20,448 But so there are many ways to suffer that are not all that. 206 00:12:20,698 --> 00:12:23,701 It's not all trauma related when someone is suffering. 207 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,121 But I think that other forms of suffering, 208 00:12:27,121 --> 00:12:30,541 maybe we understand better or we know how to show up better. 209 00:12:30,541 --> 00:12:34,712 Like you think about when someone dies, the community knows about it. 210 00:12:34,712 --> 00:12:36,422 The community shows up for it. 211 00:12:36,422 --> 00:12:40,384 The community contributes food and contributes care. 212 00:12:40,384 --> 00:12:43,387 And there's these understood ways of marking that. 213 00:12:43,721 --> 00:12:49,018 But usually the things that are in the realm of trauma experiences. 214 00:12:49,393 --> 00:12:52,980 Those are not things that we easily share with other people, partly 215 00:12:52,980 --> 00:12:56,942 because it can be triggering for us to talk about it. 216 00:12:56,942 --> 00:12:57,234 Right? 217 00:12:57,234 --> 00:12:59,779 If someone is experiencing abuse, they don't want to like, 218 00:12:59,779 --> 00:13:02,823 talk about that everywhere or if they have experienced it. 219 00:13:03,324 --> 00:13:03,866 There isn't. 220 00:13:03,866 --> 00:13:07,536 There isn't a way for community to gather around and mark it. 221 00:13:07,536 --> 00:13:11,165 And that's why I think it is often the most. 222 00:13:11,248 --> 00:13:12,082 That's why I would say, 223 00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:17,630 untreated and ignored and avoided. 224 00:13:18,005 --> 00:13:18,255 Right. 225 00:13:18,255 --> 00:13:22,218 We don't know how to mark things that caused this level of trauma for people. 226 00:13:23,552 --> 00:13:27,515 So trauma is less understood and it is less supported. 227 00:13:27,973 --> 00:13:32,186 And we are so prone to focus on behavior modifications 228 00:13:32,186 --> 00:13:35,189 when we're seeing the different responses of trauma, 229 00:13:35,272 --> 00:13:38,859 instead of sourcing the trauma that might lie underneath it. 230 00:13:39,860 --> 00:13:42,655 That's really common with addiction treatment. 231 00:13:42,655 --> 00:13:47,576 we see the addiction and of course we want the addictive behavior to stop, 232 00:13:48,410 --> 00:13:50,996 but sometimes we're failing to consider that. 233 00:13:50,996 --> 00:13:55,501 It's like there's a pain, there's a pain that's bringing that behavior around. 234 00:13:55,835 --> 00:13:59,505 And I hope we're getting better at learning 235 00:13:59,505 --> 00:14:02,508 about what that pain is and caring about that, too. 236 00:14:03,551 --> 00:14:05,094 But there are other reasons. 237 00:14:05,094 --> 00:14:08,514 I think, too, that we might tend to ignore or avoid 238 00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:11,517 or belittle and misunderstand trauma. 239 00:14:12,184 --> 00:14:14,436 one of it is that there. 240 00:14:14,436 --> 00:14:15,729 It's complicated. 241 00:14:15,729 --> 00:14:18,607 There's a lot to understand about trauma. 242 00:14:18,607 --> 00:14:21,777 and so and how it affects the body. 243 00:14:21,777 --> 00:14:23,737 And I think some of us, we just prefer 244 00:14:23,737 --> 00:14:26,740 to think about these behaviors more in a spiritual lens. 245 00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:30,452 It's simpler for us bad behavior. 246 00:14:31,495 --> 00:14:32,454 Well, okay. 247 00:14:32,454 --> 00:14:34,665 So we decide what to do about your behavior. 248 00:14:34,665 --> 00:14:37,626 But to start to understand, trauma in the body 249 00:14:37,626 --> 00:14:40,629 does take time and it will take education. 250 00:14:41,088 --> 00:14:44,216 We prefer staying in a spiritual lens for our humanity, 251 00:14:44,216 --> 00:14:47,219 then also including a physical one. 252 00:14:47,386 --> 00:14:51,891 We might be uncomfortable thinking about how our brain 253 00:14:51,891 --> 00:14:55,352 and body can inform our understanding of emotional health. 254 00:14:55,936 --> 00:14:58,898 It just feels too complicated or too dangerous. 255 00:14:58,898 --> 00:15:01,901 And so we avoid that. 256 00:15:02,151 --> 00:15:06,405 But I think another thing is that it's easy to lose hope when we're walking 257 00:15:06,405 --> 00:15:10,409 with someone who is experiencing trauma, because we pray for them 258 00:15:10,993 --> 00:15:15,831 and they still feel the trauma, and we speak truth to them 259 00:15:15,831 --> 00:15:18,834 and their body is still experiencing the trauma. 260 00:15:18,834 --> 00:15:22,671 So the things that we're used to bringing comfort to ourselves 261 00:15:23,255 --> 00:15:25,883 don't always stop 262 00:15:25,883 --> 00:15:28,469 the responses that someone in trauma is having. 263 00:15:28,469 --> 00:15:32,056 And so we if we don't understand what's happening, 264 00:15:32,056 --> 00:15:35,517 we think that's all we have to offer and we can lose hope. 265 00:15:35,893 --> 00:15:38,896 And that's the one thing they really need us not to do. 266 00:15:39,229 --> 00:15:43,233 People who are experiencing trauma in their bodies and in their minds, 267 00:15:43,233 --> 00:15:47,404 they really need people who hold hope for them 268 00:15:47,863 --> 00:15:50,616 and who stay with them in that process. 269 00:15:52,034 --> 00:15:53,577 So when we're out of our 270 00:15:53,577 --> 00:15:57,831 known resources for helping, we easily lose hope for them. 271 00:15:57,831 --> 00:15:59,959 And even worse, we can start to blame them. 272 00:15:59,959 --> 00:16:02,586 We can start to say things like, well, you're just not. 273 00:16:02,586 --> 00:16:03,921 You're not trying hard enough. 274 00:16:03,921 --> 00:16:06,799 Or you need to do more of this or more of that. 275 00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:09,343 And then that is retraumatizing 276 00:16:09,343 --> 00:16:12,346 for that person because it's added shame. 277 00:16:13,097 --> 00:16:15,224 So yes, I think we do avoid 278 00:16:15,224 --> 00:16:19,186 and we do ignore and we do belittle and we do misunderstand. 279 00:16:19,853 --> 00:16:22,648 And sometimes we add suffering. 280 00:16:22,648 --> 00:16:24,108 Shouldn't be this way. 281 00:16:24,108 --> 00:16:26,235 No, but learning about it helps. 282 00:16:26,235 --> 00:16:27,194 That's what this is. 283 00:16:27,194 --> 00:16:31,532 That's why I come back to I think if we understood it more, we would live. 284 00:16:31,532 --> 00:16:34,535 We would live better. 285 00:16:35,619 --> 00:16:38,956 As institutions, churches, schools 286 00:16:38,956 --> 00:16:43,711 or other organizations, how can they respond well 287 00:16:44,878 --> 00:16:46,296 and lovingly, 288 00:16:46,296 --> 00:16:49,675 to individuals who have experienced trauma? 289 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,055 Well, I think that one of the things is we need to know 290 00:16:55,055 --> 00:16:58,475 when we don't have everything that that individual is needing. 291 00:16:58,642 --> 00:17:01,645 So being willing to source out, 292 00:17:02,563 --> 00:17:05,566 I think sometimes we 293 00:17:05,733 --> 00:17:08,736 hear about a need and we realize it's really big. 294 00:17:08,736 --> 00:17:11,697 And our assumption is that, well, 295 00:17:11,739 --> 00:17:14,742 the Lord will give us everything we need. 296 00:17:14,950 --> 00:17:17,036 And I think that he does give us what we need. 297 00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:20,205 But sometimes that giving to us is 298 00:17:20,205 --> 00:17:23,208 an awareness of someone else who can help meet the need. 299 00:17:23,667 --> 00:17:28,130 So when it comes to significant trauma, I do recommend that churches 300 00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:31,425 find a Christian counseling center to partner with. 301 00:17:32,009 --> 00:17:35,637 And that was something that our congregation did in Ontario. 302 00:17:36,180 --> 00:17:37,681 partnership simply meant that 303 00:17:38,766 --> 00:17:39,308 pastors 304 00:17:39,308 --> 00:17:42,603 met with some people from a counseling agency, 305 00:17:42,603 --> 00:17:45,939 asked questions about how they would handle different situations. 306 00:17:45,939 --> 00:17:49,276 It was like a mutual it was a conversation to get to know each other. 307 00:17:49,985 --> 00:17:53,072 And after feeling comfortable with the approaches 308 00:17:53,072 --> 00:17:57,034 that they were talking about, and their understanding of Scripture 309 00:17:57,034 --> 00:18:01,330 and where counseling was, in light of that, it was a place that, 310 00:18:01,997 --> 00:18:04,416 our pastors felt comfortable 311 00:18:04,416 --> 00:18:07,336 recommending to members in our congregation 312 00:18:07,336 --> 00:18:13,175 and then provided the funding for it, so paid for members who needed counseling. 313 00:18:13,175 --> 00:18:14,301 Now that payment. 314 00:18:14,301 --> 00:18:16,261 I'm not saying that that has to be done, 315 00:18:16,261 --> 00:18:20,224 but that is a beautiful way to support someone who's needing some care 316 00:18:20,599 --> 00:18:24,269 for their significant dysregulation that comes with trauma 317 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:28,607 is to source out a place where they can receive good care, 318 00:18:28,941 --> 00:18:33,362 and then to help fund that for them, because it's usually doesn't come cheap. 319 00:18:34,822 --> 00:18:37,157 so I think that, 320 00:18:37,157 --> 00:18:40,285 being willing to pull in 321 00:18:41,453 --> 00:18:44,665 the resources and I think it's usually very, it's 322 00:18:44,665 --> 00:18:47,668 very possible to find believers 323 00:18:48,085 --> 00:18:50,129 who understand trauma 324 00:18:50,129 --> 00:18:53,132 and who are actually trained in the treatment of it. 325 00:18:53,340 --> 00:18:55,801 That's pretty important to do. 326 00:18:55,801 --> 00:18:57,970 I, I don't do trauma treatment. 327 00:18:57,970 --> 00:19:00,973 That's when someone needs treatment for actual trauma. 328 00:19:01,431 --> 00:19:05,018 Then we talk together about who that who could provide that for them. 329 00:19:05,477 --> 00:19:09,106 And I would encourage, pastors and churches to do the same, 330 00:19:09,356 --> 00:19:12,234 to seek resources for them. 331 00:19:12,234 --> 00:19:16,905 another thing I would recommend is that congregations consider 332 00:19:16,905 --> 00:19:20,742 having a speaker come and do a much more in-depth talk 333 00:19:20,742 --> 00:19:25,080 than what I, I'm not actually talking much about the impacts 334 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,876 of trauma on a person in this in our discussion today, 335 00:19:29,209 --> 00:19:33,255 but I would recommend that if a congregation is ready and interested, 336 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:38,343 that having someone inviting someone to come and do an educational 337 00:19:39,344 --> 00:19:41,722 workshop on trauma and how it 338 00:19:41,722 --> 00:19:45,225 impacts the brain and the body and relationships, 339 00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:49,813 would be really helpful for congregation members to hear. 340 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,567 And then if there is anyone 341 00:19:53,567 --> 00:19:57,279 in the congregation who would like to, I think it would be lovely to 342 00:19:57,279 --> 00:20:02,159 if there was someone in our congregations that we could again, support 343 00:20:02,201 --> 00:20:07,289 to learn more about it and be able to at least provide supportive listening, 344 00:20:07,289 --> 00:20:11,126 even if they're not doing the trauma treatment with the individual. 345 00:20:12,085 --> 00:20:12,711 Yeah. 346 00:20:12,711 --> 00:20:15,714 So honestly, recognizing our limitations, 347 00:20:16,715 --> 00:20:19,092 being willing to do that, 348 00:20:19,092 --> 00:20:22,095 I think that's an act of love in this. 349 00:20:22,638 --> 00:20:25,015 And how would you answer the question for individuals, 350 00:20:25,015 --> 00:20:28,518 like I asked what institutions, churches or otherwise can do? 351 00:20:29,269 --> 00:20:33,649 But what would you say to individuals 352 00:20:34,191 --> 00:20:37,736 who wish to care for or love, 353 00:20:37,778 --> 00:20:41,573 respond lovingly to individuals who have experienced trauma? 354 00:20:41,782 --> 00:20:44,159 Yes, I have a few things about that. 355 00:20:44,159 --> 00:20:46,745 first of all, encourage 356 00:20:46,745 --> 00:20:50,707 compassion over like management or fixing. 357 00:20:51,250 --> 00:20:55,379 So first of all, it's about can you be present with them 358 00:20:55,796 --> 00:20:58,799 with compassion and love for exactly where they're at? 359 00:20:59,174 --> 00:21:02,678 And this comes down to, notice them. 360 00:21:03,053 --> 00:21:07,057 So yes, they're you're going to notice that they're going to look more fearful 361 00:21:07,057 --> 00:21:10,060 and more anxious, probably in a community setting. 362 00:21:10,602 --> 00:21:13,605 But notice them and then move toward them 363 00:21:13,605 --> 00:21:16,650 relationally at a pace that is right for them. 364 00:21:16,817 --> 00:21:19,444 Be very aware of what they can handle. 365 00:21:19,444 --> 00:21:21,613 Be pleased to see them. 366 00:21:21,613 --> 00:21:25,450 make eye contact with them, express interest in their lives, 367 00:21:25,575 --> 00:21:29,288 not in the trauma actually at all, but just in this moment. 368 00:21:29,288 --> 00:21:32,833 Be with them in this moment in a way that is safe for them. 369 00:21:33,667 --> 00:21:37,754 Being concerned about them when they're not there, like 370 00:21:37,754 --> 00:21:41,883 checking in with them, maybe calling them from time to time during the week. 371 00:21:41,883 --> 00:21:45,637 If there's something that they're celebrating, celebrate with them. 372 00:21:46,638 --> 00:21:48,265 showing up in ways 373 00:21:48,265 --> 00:21:51,268 that help them know that they are safe here and now. 374 00:21:51,268 --> 00:21:53,895 Because, remember, trauma 375 00:21:53,895 --> 00:21:57,316 leaves them with a sense of not being safe here and now. 376 00:21:57,316 --> 00:22:01,194 So we do what we can in relationship to provide a sense of safety 377 00:22:02,654 --> 00:22:06,908 and let them take the lead in talking about their difficulties. 378 00:22:06,908 --> 00:22:10,912 It's not good to pressure someone when the body is already 379 00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:15,959 kind of in a threat response, pressure just exacerbates that threat response. 380 00:22:16,543 --> 00:22:19,463 So instead, stay close. 381 00:22:19,463 --> 00:22:22,716 Be ready to listen to their story in their words, 382 00:22:23,425 --> 00:22:28,722 but be aware that talking about their experiences at a time 383 00:22:28,722 --> 00:22:33,393 when they don't feel safe is actually retraumatizing for them. 384 00:22:34,019 --> 00:22:37,022 And that's the other thing to be very aware of here. 385 00:22:37,397 --> 00:22:40,942 traumatized people will struggle to trust everyone, 386 00:22:41,902 --> 00:22:43,111 and they will struggle to 387 00:22:43,111 --> 00:22:46,323 accept love and care from people. 388 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,453 But as we try and work out how to care for them, they'll be really grateful 389 00:22:51,912 --> 00:22:55,332 that we took the time to understand and to stay close by. 390 00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:58,543 So the other thing is to know 391 00:22:58,543 --> 00:23:01,546 that retraumatization is very possible, 392 00:23:02,422 --> 00:23:05,842 and this is a special time and relationship 393 00:23:05,842 --> 00:23:07,886 to practice the message of Jesus. 394 00:23:07,886 --> 00:23:10,639 So we speak good news 395 00:23:10,639 --> 00:23:12,849 and we heal the heartbroken 396 00:23:12,849 --> 00:23:15,644 and we proclaim freedom 397 00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:17,896 and comfort. 398 00:23:17,896 --> 00:23:19,398 And from Galatians six, 399 00:23:19,398 --> 00:23:22,984 we come alongside in a spirit of meekness. 400 00:23:23,485 --> 00:23:28,448 And I have to share this because the word in Galatians six to restore 401 00:23:28,448 --> 00:23:32,661 in a spirit of meekness the word restore is the same Greek word 402 00:23:32,661 --> 00:23:37,457 that's used when Jesus talks about his disciples mending, mending nets. 403 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:40,919 So when I look at that now, I always think about 404 00:23:41,044 --> 00:23:43,630 I see it as mend, mend 405 00:23:43,630 --> 00:23:46,633 each other in a spirit of meekness 406 00:23:47,092 --> 00:23:51,680 and net mending is not just one kind of knot. 407 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,015 It was actually a very intricate business. 408 00:23:54,015 --> 00:23:57,102 I read that it was like hundreds of knots, hundreds 409 00:23:57,102 --> 00:24:00,897 of different kinds of knots that go into truly mending. 410 00:24:01,481 --> 00:24:04,901 Like anybody could pull some things together and tie a knot. 411 00:24:05,318 --> 00:24:07,904 But to really restore and mend, 412 00:24:07,904 --> 00:24:11,241 there is a we have to be willing to go slow. 413 00:24:11,241 --> 00:24:13,660 We have to be willing to stay close, 414 00:24:13,660 --> 00:24:16,580 and we have to be willing to do more than one thing. 415 00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:20,876 We're going to have to use a variety of things in a relationship like this. 416 00:24:23,044 --> 00:24:24,004 So I don't know very 417 00:24:24,004 --> 00:24:27,716 much about trauma informed care, but from what I understand, 418 00:24:29,301 --> 00:24:32,429 in trauma informed care, the question is more likely to be 419 00:24:32,846 --> 00:24:36,433 what has happened to you rather than what's wrong with you? 420 00:24:38,059 --> 00:24:40,312 in Christianity, 421 00:24:40,312 --> 00:24:44,316 we believe something about sin or depravity. 422 00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:47,110 Some people call it bentness, some people call it original sin. 423 00:24:47,110 --> 00:24:52,365 But whatever the case, we believe that there is something wrong inside us 424 00:24:52,866 --> 00:24:56,119 that asking that only asking what's happened to 425 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,623 you won't actually address. 426 00:24:59,873 --> 00:25:03,793 So I'm curious if you could comment on, the way in which 427 00:25:03,793 --> 00:25:07,297 a Christian practitioner of trauma informed care 428 00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:10,759 can think about the 429 00:25:11,009 --> 00:25:13,720 where we look for what's wrong, you know, outside 430 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,723 something that's happened to us versus what's happened 431 00:25:17,182 --> 00:25:18,975 or what's going on inside of us. 432 00:25:18,975 --> 00:25:20,227 Yes. Yeah. 433 00:25:22,103 --> 00:25:25,565 Well, with someone who's experienced trauma, 434 00:25:26,399 --> 00:25:30,111 something actually did happen to them that was outside of themselves. 435 00:25:30,111 --> 00:25:32,739 That's actually. That's part of the definition of trauma. 436 00:25:32,739 --> 00:25:36,368 So is that something actually did happen to them 437 00:25:37,244 --> 00:25:39,788 that wasn't about something being wrong within them. 438 00:25:39,788 --> 00:25:42,332 But I still understand your question. 439 00:25:42,332 --> 00:25:47,170 So as a Christian practitioner, I do when I'm sitting with anybody 440 00:25:47,170 --> 00:25:50,590 and I would even view myself this way, there is 441 00:25:51,675 --> 00:25:56,346 this innate brokenness that is a part of us and something is wrong, right? 442 00:25:56,596 --> 00:25:58,390 We feel it every day. 443 00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:59,891 None of us gets to the end of the day 444 00:25:59,891 --> 00:26:02,894 and is like, wow, I really did everything perfectly. 445 00:26:03,144 --> 00:26:05,647 Like, we, we have these regrets and these things 446 00:26:05,647 --> 00:26:08,650 that we can feel are wrong inside of us. 447 00:26:09,484 --> 00:26:13,196 But I think about it always in healing work. 448 00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:18,410 If I would only fixate on what is wrong in this individual. 449 00:26:20,704 --> 00:26:22,372 I would be missing so much 450 00:26:22,372 --> 00:26:25,458 because at the same time that things are wrong. 451 00:26:26,626 --> 00:26:29,254 through Christ, so much is also made. 452 00:26:29,254 --> 00:26:32,257 There's also so much right about us. 453 00:26:32,382 --> 00:26:35,927 And in my work, at least with Christian women, 454 00:26:35,927 --> 00:26:40,015 I always want to keep that in line too like, yes, there's a lot of brokenness 455 00:26:40,015 --> 00:26:44,519 and the the mind and the body are going through so much here. 456 00:26:46,021 --> 00:26:47,314 But God, right. 457 00:26:47,314 --> 00:26:49,733 And in his great mercy. 458 00:26:49,733 --> 00:26:54,904 So keeping, it's always the two hands open. Yes. 459 00:26:54,904 --> 00:27:00,160 I want to be able to see where we are doing wrong and where we are causing harm, 460 00:27:00,535 --> 00:27:03,538 and where we are not living out of Christ, 461 00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:06,416 but always also 462 00:27:06,416 --> 00:27:07,459 alongside of it. 463 00:27:07,459 --> 00:27:10,462 What is possible with him? 464 00:27:10,503 --> 00:27:14,966 What is still right, what is still actually very functionally good. 465 00:27:14,966 --> 00:27:15,967 And right here. 466 00:27:17,927 --> 00:27:20,639 There is a trauma informed movement. 467 00:27:20,639 --> 00:27:23,892 From what I understand, that's still somewhat new. 468 00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:25,977 I think 469 00:27:25,977 --> 00:27:28,480 from what I understand, 470 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,274 trauma informed care was first articulated in 2001. 471 00:27:31,274 --> 00:27:34,986 So about 23 years past that. 472 00:27:35,612 --> 00:27:38,782 So I'm curious, do you see it as a necessary corrective? 473 00:27:39,324 --> 00:27:41,826 or what does this movement, being a mainstream movement, 474 00:27:41,826 --> 00:27:44,829 have to offer to Christians 475 00:27:45,330 --> 00:27:49,584 and are there any cautions that you would offer with it? 476 00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:52,504 Sure, I did some reflecting on this. 477 00:27:52,504 --> 00:27:56,424 the principles in the mainstream movement 478 00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:59,552 are I think they're important for Christians in that 479 00:27:59,552 --> 00:28:03,390 they and it's almost a mirror in some ways for who we, 480 00:28:03,932 --> 00:28:06,810 I think for who Christ wants us to be ideally. 481 00:28:06,810 --> 00:28:09,354 Maybe the difference is that in the mainstream movement, 482 00:28:09,354 --> 00:28:13,525 they would see it as sort of something they can learn and do all by themselves. 483 00:28:13,525 --> 00:28:16,695 And as Christians, we think about how it is 484 00:28:16,695 --> 00:28:20,865 Christ and His Spirit in us that enables us to do this kind of care. 485 00:28:21,241 --> 00:28:24,202 But it's still good, I think, for us to hear 486 00:28:24,202 --> 00:28:27,247 what the trauma informed movement is saying and kind of say, 487 00:28:27,622 --> 00:28:30,875 well, how are we doing with that then, is this 488 00:28:31,209 --> 00:28:36,089 it aligns with our teachings, and are we actually doing it in our churches? 489 00:28:36,464 --> 00:28:40,677 So here's what here's what they're calling for, 490 00:28:40,844 --> 00:28:44,556 helping people to feel physically and psychologically safe. 491 00:28:45,390 --> 00:28:47,392 So is that happening in our churches? 492 00:28:47,392 --> 00:28:52,021 When people come to us, are we helping them to know that here 493 00:28:52,647 --> 00:28:55,650 they are going to receive respect and care, 494 00:28:55,692 --> 00:28:58,445 and we're going to view them the way Christ would view them? 495 00:28:58,445 --> 00:29:02,031 To me, that's the essence of helping people feel psychologically safe. 496 00:29:03,491 --> 00:29:06,411 another part of what they are looking at in the model is 497 00:29:06,411 --> 00:29:10,290 are we making decisions with the goal of transparency and building trust? 498 00:29:10,707 --> 00:29:13,710 So less of a, much less of a top down approach 499 00:29:13,835 --> 00:29:17,839 where a patient comes in or an employee comes in, and then somebody up above them 500 00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:21,009 makes all these decisions about what they're needing. 501 00:29:21,426 --> 00:29:23,720 It's more of, we're going to have conversations 502 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,556 that build an element of trust. 503 00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:29,559 are we doing that in our churches? 504 00:29:30,268 --> 00:29:34,564 another thing they stress is integrating those with trauma experience 505 00:29:34,564 --> 00:29:39,611 into the community in ways that offer what they've learned to support other people. 506 00:29:40,195 --> 00:29:45,742 And so are we willing to, like I think sometimes what happens in our communities. 507 00:29:45,742 --> 00:29:49,537 And I would hear this in people's stories so easily in our churches. 508 00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:52,999 There's the group that's trusted and the group that's not 509 00:29:53,416 --> 00:29:54,876 and I don't know, I think 510 00:29:54,876 --> 00:29:58,213 sometimes the people who are not trusted are the ones who have some, 511 00:29:58,713 --> 00:30:03,301 maybe some traumatic things that make it difficult for them to communicate well. 512 00:30:04,052 --> 00:30:08,181 But could we actually be giving more and more opportunities for them to give 513 00:30:08,765 --> 00:30:09,724 in our communities? 514 00:30:11,267 --> 00:30:12,185 Power differences 515 00:30:12,185 --> 00:30:15,939 are leveled to support shared decision making wherever possible. 516 00:30:15,939 --> 00:30:18,900 I think we try to do that in our communities. 517 00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:21,903 we're not always doing it well, 518 00:30:23,947 --> 00:30:28,243 all people are validated in ways that increase their hope for healing. 519 00:30:28,243 --> 00:30:32,038 So that's again, that's saying we're aware that we could respond 520 00:30:32,038 --> 00:30:36,793 to someone with trauma in ways that actually drive them 521 00:30:37,210 --> 00:30:40,630 further into the shame, rather than facilitating their healing. 522 00:30:42,549 --> 00:30:46,094 And, another thing that this movement talks about is 523 00:30:46,094 --> 00:30:50,390 that caregivers are aware of their biases and they lay them down. 524 00:30:51,182 --> 00:30:53,935 And I think that's a great definition for humility, 525 00:30:53,935 --> 00:30:55,645 even for Christians in the church. 526 00:30:55,645 --> 00:30:58,815 We're aware of where we tend 527 00:30:58,815 --> 00:31:02,318 to be really strong at the at the cost of something else. 528 00:31:02,318 --> 00:31:03,278 And we're willing 529 00:31:04,487 --> 00:31:05,446 to set that to the 530 00:31:05,446 --> 00:31:09,659 side while we're while we're listening to what this other person 531 00:31:09,659 --> 00:31:12,704 is really experiencing and really asking for. 532 00:31:13,913 --> 00:31:15,748 you asked about a caution. 533 00:31:15,748 --> 00:31:18,751 I do think one caution is that 534 00:31:20,169 --> 00:31:21,671 we have to be careful that we don't 535 00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:26,175 emphasize trauma so much that we end up getting overwhelmed by the 536 00:31:26,968 --> 00:31:29,345 by it, like just the fact that it exists. 537 00:31:29,345 --> 00:31:30,889 So when people first start 538 00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:34,475 studying trauma, it can be pretty overwhelming, actually. 539 00:31:34,851 --> 00:31:37,854 And so we might lose hope in relation to it. 540 00:31:38,396 --> 00:31:42,442 Or we might think that, oh, now I understand how the brain works. 541 00:31:42,442 --> 00:31:44,652 So now I can heal it all. 542 00:31:44,652 --> 00:31:46,321 And it's not that either. 543 00:31:46,321 --> 00:31:49,324 So be careful of how. 544 00:31:51,034 --> 00:31:54,037 Of the pendulum swing, I guess, in our responses. 545 00:31:54,287 --> 00:32:00,668 if we're to do well in acknowledging it, we must also remember that it's Christ 546 00:32:00,668 --> 00:32:06,299 presence that gives strength to heal, and he opens up the way, 547 00:32:07,300 --> 00:32:09,969 and then we bear with humility the scars 548 00:32:09,969 --> 00:32:12,972 that remain, because that is something true about trauma, too. 549 00:32:13,222 --> 00:32:18,102 Though there it is common for people who have experienced significant traumas, 550 00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:21,773 they will experience great healing, 551 00:32:21,773 --> 00:32:23,900 but there will still often be scars. 552 00:32:23,900 --> 00:32:26,903 There will still be places where they're aware 553 00:32:27,695 --> 00:32:30,031 that the memories 554 00:32:30,031 --> 00:32:32,283 are coming into play in the present. 555 00:32:32,283 --> 00:32:35,954 And so can we be loving even when that's at play. 556 00:32:37,622 --> 00:32:40,625 So we must learn how to love deep 557 00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:44,712 and long in relationships that are not always easy. 558 00:32:45,630 --> 00:32:47,840 We need to be committed to minister 559 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,843 out of the love of Jesus Christ 560 00:32:50,969 --> 00:32:53,096 and out of his great love. 561 00:32:53,096 --> 00:32:57,725 We support trauma survivors in doing the next thing that they're able to. 562 00:32:57,976 --> 00:33:01,354 We don't just hand them a list and say, okay, you got to be able to do all this, 563 00:33:01,729 --> 00:33:02,563 this, this, this, this. 564 00:33:02,563 --> 00:33:05,316 Because we're not in charge of their healing process anyway. 565 00:33:06,401 --> 00:33:06,943 We really 566 00:33:06,943 --> 00:33:09,946 do believe that Jesus is going to be the one who guides them. 567 00:33:10,863 --> 00:33:16,035 so we come alongside and support the next thing that they are feeling ready to do. 568 00:33:17,036 --> 00:33:20,164 And we need to be hope carriers for these individuals 569 00:33:20,164 --> 00:33:24,043 because they endure so many tough things every day. 570 00:33:25,169 --> 00:33:28,172 People who are experiencing PTSD, 571 00:33:28,756 --> 00:33:31,759 they exercise courage every single day 572 00:33:32,135 --> 00:33:35,054 in order to live their life well. 573 00:33:35,054 --> 00:33:39,600 So the trauma informed health care movement recognizes that respect 574 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,646 and humility in relationships is as healing 575 00:33:43,646 --> 00:33:46,649 for trauma as medications. 576 00:33:47,108 --> 00:33:50,820 That's the other thing about this movement is that they're not oversimplifying it 577 00:33:50,820 --> 00:33:53,948 anymore, like where it used to be like, oh, you're having panic attacks. 578 00:33:53,948 --> 00:33:55,658 Take this pill. 579 00:33:55,658 --> 00:33:57,994 The trauma informed movement is actually saying, actually, 580 00:33:57,994 --> 00:33:59,537 there's a relational aspect 581 00:33:59,537 --> 00:34:02,749 that is so needed for people who have experienced trauma. 582 00:34:03,499 --> 00:34:07,795 And so I wonder if the corollary for that in our church setting, 583 00:34:08,296 --> 00:34:11,507 maybe the lesson for us is that respect 584 00:34:11,507 --> 00:34:14,510 and humility in our relationships 585 00:34:14,635 --> 00:34:19,223 is more healing for trauma than prescribing a Bible verse 586 00:34:19,515 --> 00:34:22,894 or thinking that because I prayed for you, you should be better now. 587 00:34:23,895 --> 00:34:24,645 because we do our 588 00:34:24,645 --> 00:34:27,690 own kinds of religious prescribing, sometimes. 589 00:34:28,608 --> 00:34:32,403 and I think it would, I think it would be good for us to know 590 00:34:33,029 --> 00:34:36,032 that walking alongside relationally with respect 591 00:34:36,574 --> 00:34:39,118 and humility will go a long way 592 00:34:39,118 --> 00:34:42,121 for the healing process and trauma. 593 00:34:43,539 --> 00:34:44,999 That sounds to me like wisdom. 594 00:34:44,999 --> 00:34:48,336 Thank you for what you've shared here in this episode. 595 00:34:48,669 --> 00:34:51,672 Thank you for talking with us about trauma and how our churches 596 00:34:51,672 --> 00:34:54,675 can be more trauma informed. 597 00:34:55,384 --> 00:34:56,761 If we're willing to learn. 598 00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:58,679 There's much to be learned. 599 00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:00,640 Definitely! 600 00:35:01,474 --> 00:35:04,602 Thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 601 00:35:05,061 --> 00:35:08,648 This is the second episode that we have recorded with Janelle Glick. 602 00:35:09,607 --> 00:35:10,900 You can find the link to her 603 00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,070 first episode with us about peace and relationships below. 604 00:35:14,695 --> 00:35:18,407 For the complete library of blog posts and episodes that we have published, 605 00:35:18,699 --> 00:35:21,702 visit anabaptistperspectives.org 606 00:36:55,588 --> 00:36:56,380 Do you think the iPad is 607 00:36:56,380 --> 00:36:58,466 distracting to have it vertically rather than laying down. 608 00:36:58,466 --> 00:36:59,425 On this camera? 609 00:36:59,425 --> 00:37:02,261 So I think, oh, okay. Good. 610 00:37:02,261 --> 00:37:05,973 So Carl, this is the intro for the first episode, 611 00:37:06,140 --> 00:37:09,310 which is about peaceful relationships. 612 00:37:15,566 --> 00:37:18,152 What does peace within oneself 613 00:37:18,152 --> 00:37:20,988 and with others have to do with the peace 614 00:37:20,988 --> 00:37:23,991 and well-being of the community? 615 00:37:30,748 --> 00:37:33,417 What does peace within oneself 616 00:37:33,417 --> 00:37:37,338 and with others have to do with the peace and well-being 617 00:37:37,505 --> 00:37:40,508 of the larger community? 618 00:37:52,603 --> 00:37:52,853 Okay. 619 00:37:52,853 --> 00:37:54,814 You're good. Okay. 620 00:37:54,814 --> 00:37:59,318 And this is the intro for the second episode with Janelle Glick. 621 00:37:59,986 --> 00:38:02,947 it's the one about 622 00:38:02,947 --> 00:38:05,908 trauma and trauma informed churches. 623 00:38:12,331 --> 00:38:14,583 For those looking on, 624 00:38:14,583 --> 00:38:18,629 those who have experienced trauma may be suffering unnecessarily. 625 00:38:19,588 --> 00:38:21,966 How can Christians support those who have experienced 626 00:38:21,966 --> 00:38:25,344 trauma rather than driving their suffering deeper? 627 00:38:27,179 --> 00:38:30,182 How can churches offer a loving care? 628 00:38:34,478 --> 00:38:37,481 How does that wording turn on the first sentence? 629 00:38:38,649 --> 00:38:39,692 For those looking. 630 00:38:39,692 --> 00:38:40,401 For those looking 631 00:38:40,401 --> 00:38:44,864 on, those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily. 632 00:38:44,947 --> 00:38:47,199 Yeah. Is there a way we can frame that more clearly? 633 00:38:47,199 --> 00:38:48,576 No. That was that was good. 634 00:38:48,576 --> 00:38:52,038 I mean, I didn't hear you say the word appear, so I was, 635 00:38:53,289 --> 00:38:56,167 was oh, 636 00:38:56,167 --> 00:38:56,625 okay. 637 00:38:56,625 --> 00:38:59,462 I mean, that would be bad news to leave that out. Yeah. 638 00:38:59,462 --> 00:39:02,590 so, Carl, make sure that the word appears in the first sentence, 639 00:39:02,590 --> 00:39:04,759 and I'll try again and try to get the words right. 640 00:39:04,759 --> 00:39:09,597 And maybe start with to those looking on, rather than for those looking, 641 00:39:10,139 --> 00:39:13,225 okay, I think I might be a little more clear and less. 642 00:39:13,225 --> 00:39:14,435 That's not chromatically. 643 00:39:14,435 --> 00:39:18,064 No, that's grammatically good and I think probably clear. 644 00:39:18,606 --> 00:39:19,815 So I will try again. 645 00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:24,779 To those looking on, 646 00:39:24,779 --> 00:39:28,949 those who have experienced trauma may appear to be suffering unnecessarily. 647 00:39:29,992 --> 00:39:33,454 How can Christians support those who have experienced trauma 648 00:39:33,704 --> 00:39:36,707 rather than driving the suffering deeper? 649 00:39:36,999 --> 00:39:39,960 How can churches respond? 650 00:39:41,295 --> 00:39:42,880 That sound good? 651 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,340 Okay, 652 00:39:44,340 --> 00:39:47,343 you go one more, run your good. 653 00:39:50,388 --> 00:39:52,264 To those looking on, 654 00:39:52,264 --> 00:39:55,267 those who have experienced trauma may appear 655 00:39:55,393 --> 00:39:58,396 to be suffering unnecessarily. 656 00:39:58,813 --> 00:40:00,272 How can 657 00:40:00,272 --> 00:40:03,275 how can Christian support those who have experienced trauma 658 00:40:04,068 --> 00:40:07,029 rather than driving the suffering deeper? 659 00:40:07,029 --> 00:40:10,032 How can churches respond? 660 00:40:30,177 --> 00:40:33,180 so, Carl, this is the outro for our 661 00:40:33,931 --> 00:40:36,892 episode one about peace and relationships. 662 00:40:42,898 --> 00:40:45,901 Thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 663 00:40:46,152 --> 00:40:49,613 For the complete library of the blog posts and episodes that we have published, 664 00:40:49,947 --> 00:40:53,033 visit Anabaptist perspectives.org. 665 00:40:59,081 --> 00:41:01,459 Thank you for watching this episode with Janelle. 666 00:41:01,459 --> 00:41:05,754 Click for the complete collection of episodes and blog posts 667 00:41:05,754 --> 00:41:06,922 that we have published. 668 00:41:06,922 --> 00:41:09,800 Visit and a Baptist perspectives.org. 669 00:41:33,699 --> 00:41:36,702 And Carl, this is the outro for the second episode 670 00:41:36,702 --> 00:41:39,705 with Janelle Glick about trauma. 671 00:41:40,998 --> 00:41:44,210 Thank you for watching this episode of Anabaptist Perspectives. 672 00:41:44,668 --> 00:41:48,255 This is the second episode that we have recorded with Janelle Glick. 673 00:41:49,215 --> 00:41:50,508 You can find the link to her 674 00:41:50,508 --> 00:41:53,677 first episode with us about peace and relationships below. 675 00:41:54,303 --> 00:41:58,015 For the complete library of blog posts and episodes that we have published, 676 00:41:58,307 --> 00:42:01,310 visit anabaptistperspectives.org 677 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,142 Maybe the difference is that in the mainstream movement, 678 00:42:42,142 --> 00:42:46,313 they would see it as sort of something they can learn and do all by themselves. 679 00:42:46,313 --> 00:42:49,483 And as Christians, we think about how it is 680 00:42:49,483 --> 00:42:53,654 Christ and His Spirit in us that enables us to do this kind of care. 681 00:42:54,029 --> 00:42:58,284 But it's still good, I think, for us to hear what the trauma informed 682 00:42:58,284 --> 00:43:02,246 movement is saying and kind of say, well, how are we doing with that then, 683 00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:23,077 Tell me that you want.