Welcome to the Construction Disruption Podcast, where we

uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials, and

welcome to Construction Disruption.

Um, we're real excited about today's episode.

As always, we have a great guest, so, uh, let's go ahead and get things going.

So, of course, here on the show, we cover a wide variety of topics, topics

and we have a wide variety of guests and this episode is no different.

Today we're talking with Matt Vetter, president of Schafer Construction

based in Brighton, Michigan.

As head of a construction company that does a wide variety of work from

industrial and commercial buildings to multi family religious buildings and

everything in between, Matt sees some of the unique and varied challenges

that are faced by our industry.

And aside from his work at Schafer, he is facing these challenges head

on in a number of ways, trying to solve them for our industry and

to take us all to a higher level.

Um, well, we're going to dig into all that here in just a little bit, but first

Matt, Welcome to Construction Disruption.

Pleasure to have you here today.

Thank you for having me, Todd.

I've been excited to come on.

I know we, we scheduled this quite a while ago, so I'm glad it's finally here.

Well, I am as well.

So a lot of times we start the show with a really lame dad joke,

and sometimes we have a co host, so we do those in between us.

Well, you're going to be the victim of my dad joke today, if that's okay.

Hey fire away

Okay, so I I read the other day, um that the

average dog barks 267 times a day.

It seems to like a lot I have one that barks probably a lot more

than that and one a lot less Um, of course keep in mind that 267 is

only a rough estimate Rough, rough.

Got it.

Yeah, it's as good as it gets.

Anyway.

It's a good estimator joke.

Well, we want to focus on things that you're doing today

to help our industry because I think you're really doing some unique and

special things to benefit our industry.

But, um, first of all start out by telling us a little bit about your own history.

Um, how you got involved with Schafer Construction and, uh, became head of it,

and, um, tell us, give us an overview of the types of work that Schafer

Construction, uh, gets involved with.

Sure.

So, um, I started in the construction world when I was 17 years old.

I worked for a residential, uh, framing and remodeling crew.

We did custom homes and additions, remodels.

Decks, garages, you name it.

Um, I did residential work, uh, via that company and another company that I

formed, uh, way back then for a number of years, um, 2008 came around and, and the

residential markets, as everybody knows, kind of took a tailspin to put it lightly,

remember it all too well.

Yes.

Yeah,

yeah, I do too.

Um, Luckily, you know, by, by the grace of God, I had an opportunity

to kind of follow my lap to, to jump ships and move from the residential

world into the commercial world.

Uh, and I spent the next decade building quick serve pizza

restaurants across the country.

Um, you could probably guess which one, but when the economy had

tanked, cheap pizza was a pretty hot.

Item, uh, so we were, we were busy.

We were building hundreds and hundreds of these things a year.

Um, and it was, it was fun.

It was, you know, I made great money, but I traveled a ton and that that kind

of took its toll on me after a while.

So I put roots back down here and in southeastern Michigan, um, headed

up a pre construction department for a large local general contractor

here for a number of years.

And then, uh, as luck would have it, had another opportunity, um,

to come out to Brighton, Michigan and purchase Schafer construction.

So that's what I did.

I kind of jumped on it.

Um, when, when opportunity knocks you, you should open the door every single time.

Love that.

A little quick background on Schafer.

We've been, uh, in operation since 1997.

Um, we build today.

We build literally everything other than single family homes.

So, as you mentioned, a lot of light industrial, uh, office product,

although not as much office today as we, we used to, um, religious

institutions, recreational facilities, um, municipal projects, you name it.

We, we, uh, we'll tackle it.

So it's been, uh, it's been a great last, uh, seven years.

Um, and we're, we're looking forward to the future.

How is the construction industry in Southeast Michigan right now?

Is it, I mean, there's a lot of work going on and a lot still on the books

or what are you seeing out there?

You know, to be honest, Todd, we have not seen any slowdown whatsoever.

We're still feeding off of the pent up demand from the, from the COVID mess.

And that continues to kind of feed our, our, uh, Revenue goals and we'll take it.

Well, that's great.

And you know, what I find so often is the companies that are doing things.

Well, um, they tend to, to weather some of those ups and downs a

whole lot better than the others.

So good for you.

So Brighton, Michigan, there's a ski slope there.

Isn't there?

Am I mistaken on that?

Well,

you're right.

Mount Brighton.

I spent the majority of my childhood and teenage years, uh, snowboarding out here.

Oh, awesome.

Yeah, my business partner is actually from Northwest Ohio, Napoleon, Ohio, and

I believe Brighton is one of the areas his family used to go skiing years ago, so.

So one of the things is I picked around on Schafer Construction's website,

and it was really thought provoking.

through your foundation that you've started that I first came to know you.

But as I picked around on Schafer's website, um, your core values really hit

me a lot of times core values are just one word and you kind of see the same thing on

everyone's site, but, um, yours are really specific and a little bit more defined.

So, um, your core values are put the project first.

Be the problem solver.

Love that.

Always embody honesty and integrity.

Be respectful and have a 100 and 0 mindset.

Um, tell us a little bit about what those core values mean to your company and even

how they impact your daily activities.

Um, great question.

Uh, and I love answering it because they mean literally everything to the company.

Um, we made a conscious effort.

About six years ago to really shift our focus from just, uh, you know,

your standard construction company to, to affirm really doing great things.

And we recognize that the way to do that is to build a culture.

And the way to build a culture is to base your company on, on a very

strict and rigid set of core values.

So, uh, we came up with this list and it's changed a bit over

the years, um, but not much.

We, we hire.

By these values, we fire by these values when necessary.

We we vet potential clients and partners by these these core values.

Um, you know, it's it's far more than a pretty picture on the

wall in our conference room.

It really is a a It's our North star, you know, it guides us in everything we do.

That's cool.

Well, your, your last core value, the have a hundred and no mindset, um, give

me a little bit of background or, you know, what that, what that means to you.

Yeah.

So that's the one that everyone asks about and it's actually my favorite.

And, um, so a hundred to zero mindset is, is the mentality that when we commit to

going and doing anything, whether that's going after a prospect, whether it's

a project we've signed, whether it's.

Starting a foundation doesn't doesn't matter if we're going to commit resources

and commit our our brainpower to going after something we're going to fight so

fiercely to win that we want to run the score up on our our opponent 100 to 0.

There are there are no opportunities for for anything less.

It is.

It is.

We are going to crush anyone in our way.

Respectfully, uh, and, and, and win.

And that's, that's how we continue to operate to this day.

Oh, I love it.

And that, what a great rallying cry that becomes for your entire organization

to have that kind of mindset.

Um, love it.

That's great.

You know, one of the things I I've been talking some about lately is,

um, I'm seeing a lot in some of the leadership books out there about how

core values are really What a lot of companies are focusing on now more

than mission, because I think in our fast changing world, sometimes that

mission has to stay a little bit fluid, but it's going to be fluid within

the boundaries of your core values.

Is that kind of what you find?

Also?

Yes, because.

The precision it takes to, to set up a mission statement that it can, whether

the time, right, whether your entire existence as a company, it's, it's almost

immeasurable and it's almost impossible to do because the economy is always changing.

The environment's always changing your clientele changes.

There's so many things changing.

And so I think that having that core values really as a structural

piece to stand on, it allows you to Almost manipulate your, your mission

statement as you continue to progress and grow through the industry.

Absolutely.

I love it.

And it's just been interesting how I've seen that.

I really first started taking note of it from a lot of leadership

things, probably 6, 8 months ago, but just makes a whole lot of sense.

And if you can get your entire organization driving

behind the same core values.

Um, that's going to carry you a long way.

So, so back in January of 2021, I believe, which was kind of the height

of COVID for a lot of folks, um, like many folks, including those of us

here at construction disruption, you decided to start a podcast, uh, that

you named the construction corner.

Uh, can you tell us a little bit about what you do on the show and

what your goal is through the podcast?

Yeah, so just to clarify a bit, I joined an existing show.

Um, one of my very best friends, Dylan Mitchell started it a couple of years

prior to that, I joined as co host in 21.

And, um, you know, our goal in that show is really to, To bring awareness

to the industry that that we both know and love that we all know and love.

Um, we, we had, you know, have a very wide variety of guests on that can speak to

different different areas of construction.

We, we never really focused too heavily on on the commercial versus residential side.

Dylan, my, my co host is an electrical engineer.

I'm obviously a former carpenter, so I'm, you know, one step above a pirate, but,

but I do like to talk from time to time.

So the two of us kind of had that opposite side of the, uh, of the

prospect table mentality to, to go about these conversations.

So it's been, uh, it's been a lot of fun and had a lot of

good conversations through that.

Man, that's great.

And I find that you can learn so much also, um,

just seconding that you can, you learn a ton by having conversations.

So just to tell our audience, um, we are doing

challenge words again this episode.

No pirate was not Matt's challenge word Um, but kind of keep the ear out

for any words that we might use that might be a little bit different That we

have both been challenged to work into the conversation Later on the show.

I'll tell you whether we were successful or not.

So, um, yeah, no, I I I love it.

So you've got quite a few episodes under your belt now also with podcast

Oh, yeah, we're, we're, uh, I don't remember a few hundred by now.

They build up quick, that's for sure.

Yes.

Well, that's cool.

We'll keep up the good work.

I've been listening to it a little bit here and there, and I want to

make it part of my regular listening.

My problem is I only have about a 10 minute commute to and from work every day.

That would be my podcast time, but it's a pretty short drive.

So after that, then, um, just earlier in 2024, and this was kind of where I,

uh, first became aware of you, Matt.

I saw a press release or something that you had out there.

Um, you started something called the Build Better Foundation.

And your tagline for the foundation is make the trades cool again, which I love.

Um, I assume you started the Build Better Foundation because you saw a

concern in the construction industry that you wanted to try to address.

Um, in particular, maybe in Michigan.

Can you tell us a little bit about what you saw that became

the impetus for you to say, hey, I want to do something about this?

It's a systemic problem that frankly, all of us

in the industry are to blame for.

And it's, it's been going on for the past 20 plus years in that we allowed

the public school systems in particular to, to really beat college as the

only option into our, our heads and into now the heads of our children and

their children, um, you know, when I was growing up and when I was in high

school, we had, it wasn't trade school.

Then it was called voc tech and.

It was looked at as it was the option for the burnouts for

the kids who couldn't graduate.

You know, it was, it was, it was low tier option mentality.

And it was, there was never a, a push or even the conversation that there's

alternatives out there to a 4 year degree and construction is obviously, uh, uh,

an industry that while 4 year degrees are, are valuable to some aspect and

what we do, uh, it's not a requirement.

And it, again, it's been going on for forever and it's just something that

kind of has been boiling and boiling inside me for a very long time.

You know, we, we don't have.

Young people flooding into the industry.

Like we need, you know, you asked me earlier how the, how the market is here.

And it's great.

The problem is we have all the projects that we need.

What we don't have is the people to build them.

And, you know, we share for constructions, a paper GC, we

don't self perform anything.

We manage the deals and the projects.

So the labor market for us is not as critical, but But all of

our specialty contractors, our trade partners, they rely on that.

And so what build better foundation is, is aiming to do.

And in our first initiative now is we're actually having a launch

party in a couple of weeks.

We're going to start providing scholarships to, to kids or to anyone

looking to get into either a trade school or even a, you know, a four year CM

program or, or an apprenticeship, um, something that's Just to kind of help

them get a little seed money, whether it's, you know, paying for books,

paying for tools, paying for boots.

I don't, I don't really care.

Um, the goal is just to, to do our little bit that we can to try and help raise

awareness and, and try and get more interest and involvement in the industry

that frankly, we all, we all love.

No, I, I hear you and I love and applaud what you're doing.

Um, it's funny, you know, a few years ago, um, When unemployment rates,

you know, just were running so low and they were telling us, gosh,

they're lower than even the number of people who don't want to work.

Um, you know, and I think that brought a lot of attention and people

started focusing on the construction trades and the shortages, but, uh,

you, you hit the nail on the head.

We started experiencing this 20, 25 years ago, um, just with a

lower influx of new folks into our, uh, Into our great industry here.

So, um, yeah, so, so, uh, you know, I, I know that you're raising funds and

you're going to start the scholarship program, um, any other, you know,

insight as far as what you're doing or, you know, how, how are you managing

to gain traction with the foundation and get some interest out there?

Uh, I can imagine we've got some listeners are saying, wow, I

ought to start that in my area.

Um, tell us a little bit about, you know, how you get off the this

off the ground and make it happen.

Um, it's not been easy.

Um, contrary to popular belief or to my mistaken belief, setting up an actual 501

C3 is a tremendously difficult process and go figure the IRS doesn't, doesn't

make it easy for you to not pay taxes.

So, um, it's been kind of a labor of love that took frankly, almost a

year before we were able to launch.

Um, you know, social medias.

Great.

Um, as much as I, I love to hate it, it, it helps us get our word out.

It's, it's how I met you, Todd.

And, um, you know, that, that's, that's been huge for us.

Podcasting is, is another, uh, media choice where, you know, it's,

it's low cost, but it's high reach.

And it's, it's just a matter of, of.

You know, a pyramid stack.

And if we can have one conversation today, but you've got 50 or a hundred or however

many listeners, you know, the hope is each one of those listeners might take a piece

of this and then go talk to somebody else.

And it just keeps kind of spider webbing from there.

So we don't do a lot of, you know, typical marketing yet.

Um, obviously as a startup, we're, we're pretty strapped for, for budgeting.

We want to put most of the money that we have into actually, you know, Helping

those folks who are trying to get into the industry versus, you know, spending it

on, on ad spend or, or things like that.

Well, and it's interesting.

So I'm involved with a national trade organization that started

a scholarship program recently.

And, um, interestingly, as, as we looked at it.

Um, our initial scholarships are not even requiring you to be in the trades.

I think we want to get there eventually, but we were initial like, we're not

sure we can even give away these scholarships if we restricted to that.

Um, and we were restricting it to children or grandchildren

of, Members of the organization.

Um, but so I, I, I agree with you.

These things take a little bit of time, but on the other hand, um, that's kind

of what makes you a change maker out there and what drives some changes.

So I'm kind of curious.

I mean, what is it in you?

I mean, you, you could.

Live just fine.

You could, you could still be building, building pizza stores, but you know,

you could live just fine, uh, heading up Schafer construction and not have to have

all these other things on your plate.

What is it that kind of drives you personally saying, Hey, I want to, I want

to be a bigger part of change than this.

Um, that's pretty deep question, Todd.

I wasn't it's a good question.

You know, I, I candidly, I've done really well in my career and, and I've, I've

proven to myself, I've proven to my, my family and my, my friends that this

is a, not just a viable career choice, but it's a potentially very lucrative

and very successful career choice.

And you're right, I could, I could do nothing else and I could do less

than I do and still be perfectly fine.

But, you know, it seems sounds a little cheesy, but I want to make my mark, right?

We built great buildings and that's, that's fine and good.

We.

We build a lot of cool stuff at the construction company, but if I can

do a very small part, if we through the organization can do a small part

to then boost the industry, that's allowed us to find this success.

It's like a, it's like a triple win for me.

So that's kind of, it's that a hundred to zero mindset, right?

I, I don't want to stop.

So I like stacking up the chips.

I like seeing the wins and if I can promote and provide an

opportunity for somebody else to also then see those wins and that's.

That's all I can ask for.

That's great for me.

Yeah, I love it.

And you're right.

It's so easy.

And, you know, I'll even have people come into my life or saying, Todd, slow down.

You got to do less right now.

I'm doing what I'm driven to do and why I feel like I'm called to do.

Um, well, I'm kind of curious, you know, speaking of that,

how do you balance it all?

Um, where do you find the space and the place to kind of recharge

yourself and be able to keep all this, all these plates spinning?

So I get asked that all the time and people say the same thing, you

know, you need to slow down, you need to find more balance and, um, I'm not going

to swear on your podcast, but I find that the term work life balance is BS.

There, there is, when you're an entrepreneur, there is no such thing.

There is no such thing at all.

What, what there is though, is finding.

A way that you can satisfy all of your needs and the needs of those

around you who, who rely on you while still keeping the ship afloat.

And, and I think that's different than balance in my mind anyways.

So, um, you know, I've got three, three boys and a wife and some dogs.

And, you know, there's, there's a lot of, of needs out there.

There are a lot of buckets that I need to fill, but, um, in my mind, I can't do.

Any one of those without all of the others.

Also.

Yeah, I think that's interesting.

You know, I, especially in the summer, I tend to be a pretty big baseball fan.

And of course, my team is the Reds.

You you might be more of a Tigers fan up there, but, um, yeah, Yeah, it's

interesting as I watch those players, I love seeing, you know, the stories

about them personally because of what it takes to them to be, you know,

an elite level athlete like that.

And, you know, make no mistake about it.

They are.

I mean, they're doing things every day that the rest of us could never

dream of doing, even though we may look at it and think we could.

Um, and yet, you know, You know, you talk about them and how do they achieve

work life balance, and I agree with you.

It's kind of baloney.

Um, and I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but, but I guess, you know, you talk

about, okay, well, they're an athlete and they're doing what they're called to do.

Well, those of us in business are doing what we're called to do also.

Um, and it takes commitment and it takes a lot of drive and

perseverance and a lot of hard work.

So, um, kudos to you.

All right.

Thank you.

And you're right.

I mean, I'm more of a basketball guy myself.

I'll relate things to Michael Jordan or to Kobe Bryant.

You know, those two, they were in the gym at three o'clock in the morning and they

were in the gym immediately after games.

And, you know, there's a different mentality.

You have to have to be successful as an owner and not everyone needs that.

We don't, we don't want everyone to be an entrepreneur or a leader of a company.

We need people that just want to work and there's nothing wrong with that, but

absolutely.

You know, and I just think that's, that's part

of the burden that we bear.

As entrepreneurs is, is the lack of that, that, you know, admitted

work life balance concept.

Yeah.

Interesting.

Well, I'm kind of curious who have been some of the strong mentors or positive

influencers in your life, uh, along the way, anyone in particular come to mind.

Uh, my father is a huge one.

He

suffered a massive setback professionally when I was in high school.

Uh, and rather than, you know, tucking tail and admitting defeat and, and.

You know, laying down for the rest of his life.

He turned it around and and Started his own company.

Um, that, which was kind of my first real taste of, of entrepreneurship.

And I saw that and I thought, wow, my, you know, dad's his own boss.

How, how the heck do you do that?

Mm-Hmm, . Um, so, you know, that that was a, a pivotal moment in my life.

And, you know, I've, I've learned a lot through those experiences.

Certainly.

Um, I have other mentors along the way too, but, you know, I, I would say is a,

a, a kind of life altering, uh, moment.

That, that was it.

Yeah, very interesting.

Well, you and I, you're a lot younger than me, but you and I have very

similar stories because I've got similar experience with my father also.

So, uh, very interesting.

Well, Matt, it's been a great time talking to you.

We're kind of close to wrapping up, but we kind of call the business

end of things and here in a little bit, we'll give you a chance to

share all your contact information.

Um, but is there anything we haven't covered today that you wanted to be

sure and share with our audience?

No, I think we've touched on it.

You know, obviously my my big focus right now outside of the construction

company is is the build better foundation.

So any, any, any way anyone can help either financially or or just helping to

get the word out is is always appreciated.

Cool.

And I'm sure you'd love to talk with folks who may want to start something

similar in their regions to and share with them what you've learned.

That's cool.

Well, and I will tell you if you're someplace in Southeast Michigan

and looking to have a building built, uh, Schafer construct should

be a great option to talk to you.

So that's cool too.

We do that too.

Well, before we close out, I am going to invite

you to take part in something we call our rapid fire questions.

They're not really that rapid, but we'll do them as quick as we can.

Um, so these are seven questions kind of out of the blue that you have no idea.

We're going to ask, um, are you up to the challenge of rapid fire fire away?

Cool.

And I think I said, we're going to ask, I guess it's going to be me.

Um, but anyway.

Number one, what is a product or service that you've purchased in recent years

that has been a real game changer for you?

Sort of a, where have you been all my life

moment?

Uh, I joined a entrepreneurial mastermind called the Arate Syndicate

about four years ago, and it has been an absolute game changer.

I wish I had started.

Much sooner.

So for our audience that doesn't know, tell us a little bit

about how that mastermind group works.

Does it meet once a week, once a month virtual, I assume?

Yeah, it's virtual meetings.

Primarily.

There's a, there's a call 3 times a week on on zoom.

There's a, I'm sorry, 3 times a month on zoom.

Uh, a Facebook group.

And then a few times a year, there are opportunities for in person meetups.

Um, all of which I've done all the above.

And it's from a, from a business ownership perspective, it is, it is

1000 percent changed the trajectory of,

of where Schafer construction

is going and, and where we were.

And it's, you know, It's been a very beneficial thing.

Uh, cool.

Good for you.

That's great.

Question number two, if you could have any superpower, what superpower

would you choose to have and why?

I've always thought flying would be cool.

Um, I don't really know why maybe, maybe to cut down on my commute, maybe.

So I don't have to fly commercial.

Uh, so I guess until I get my, my first jet.

Um, being able to just to fly like Superman would be, would be kind of fun.

There you go.

Sounds good to me.

Okay.

Question number three.

Do you have a bucket list vacation?

Um, I have a lot of bucket list vacations.

Um, my wife and I are, she's a very similar mindset to me and we're,

we're always working on something.

So we, we've become very good at kind of coupling our travel options with,

um, Our entrepreneurial ventures.

So everywhere we go to where we always are going kind of with the

look in the eye of, you know, how can we turn this into something new?

How can we turn this into either another business or an opportunity?

And so really any, anywhere we go that we haven't been yet, our

bucket list adventures to us.

Good deal.

Well, this next one is a would you rather question.

Would you, would you rather have spaghetti for your hair

or maple syrup for your sweat?

Um, boy, that's equally, equally disgusting.

I think I would go with, uh, with maple syrup, I guess.

And I don't have a good answer.

I like maple syrup more than I like spaghetti.

We'll leave it at that.

See, I would take the spaghetti because I haven't

had hair in about 30 years, so I'd have to go with that.

Okay, another would you rather question.

Would you rather have a permanent clown face or would you rather always

have to wear giant clown shoes?

I'm a shoe guy.

I'd go with the shoes.

I like my my Jordans and my my cowboy boots, but I I'd add

some clown shoes into the mix.

There you go.

Love it.

Okay.

Next to last question.

If you could have dinner with any historical figure, who would

you choose to have dinner with

historical figure?

I would probably go with, uh, you know, a John Adams or a Paul Revere type.

Type figure just to kind of pick their brain on, you know, what, what their,

what their mindset was, what their, uh, what their core values were when

they were, you know, working on, on the revolution and the constitution

and that phase of our country's existence, that'd be pretty neat to me

to understand more on a deeper level, especially given where we are today.

Yeah, I agree.

Cool.

And I love the flag.

You said, uh, they're behind you.

You said a friend made that for

you.

He did.

I have a good friend.

He, uh, he owns a company unrelated to woodworking.

Um, but he's also a pretty accomplished woodworker.

So he made this and shipped it up from, uh, shipped it over from New Jersey.

Uh, and it's, it's hung on my wall ever since.

Wow, that's beautiful.

Thank

you.

Last question.

What would you like to be for remembered for at the end of your days?

I think that's easy.

Everybody wants to be remembered for making a difference making a positive

change You know and that's that kind of goes along with the question you asked

me earlier and why I do all that I do um You know, it'd be pretty boring to

me to just live a mediocre existence.

That's never interested me.

Um, never been a guy that wanted to punch a clock and, and go sit down and, and, you

know, watch TV every night so I can turn my time into, into valuable production

and make, make a positive impact.

Good for you.

Well, you are well on the path to making that difference and

you are making that difference.

So it's been great.

So Matt, thank you again, um for folks who want to get in touch with you or learn

more about Schafer construction

or the construction corner podcast or The build better

foundation, uh, what are the best ways for them to do that?

And we'll put this information in the show notes as well, by the way.

I appreciate that todd Um easiest way to get a hold

of me is my my personal linkedin.

It's Matt Vetter Pretty easy to find.

Uh, the website company website is Schafer Construction.

net.

Um, through that site, you can get to the build better foundation also.

So it's all a pretty easy one stop shop.

Cool.

Well, we encourage everyone to check that out and, and especially

check out what Matt's doing through the build better foundation.

And, uh, it's an important part of, uh, continuing our industry and

hopefully improving it on our industry.

And, uh, so check that out for sure.

So Matt, I have to ask you, did you get your challenge word in?

I sure did.

I used precision when I talked about the precision of making

crafting a mission statement that can withstand the test of time

and you did it.

Well, you're right.

I remember it now, but went right over my head at the time I worked mine in,

which was traction didn't use it that way.

But for all you business owners out there, Matt and I were

talking about the book traction.

Great business leadership book, business management book.

So we highly recommend that if you're looking for something.

Matt, this has been great.

Thank you so much.

It's been really good to get to know you and to learn more about what you're doing.

Keep up the great work.

I

appreciate it, Todd.

It's been fun.

Well, thank you to our audience for tuning into

this very special episode of Construction Disruption with Matt

Vetter of Schafer Construction

based in Brighton, Michigan.

Please watch for future episodes of our podcast.

Don't forget to leave a review on Apple podcasts or YouTube.

Um, we always have great guests just like today, and we appreciate that.

Um, but until the next time we're together, keep on disrupting and

challenging, looking for better ways of doing things, and don't forget to

have a positive impact on everyone you encounter, make them smile, give them

encouragement, so God bless and take care.

This is Isaiah Industries signing off until the next episode

of Construction Disruption.

This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty

metal roofing and other building products.