Master - Louise McHugh

[00:00:00] Hi there. And a very warm, welcome decision. Five episode 60 of people soup. It's Ross McIntosh here. P supers. Well, I'm as surprised as you are to be popping up with this bonus episode. It's a one-off special where I have a chat with the president of the ACBS UK and Republic of Ireland chapter president. professor Louise MCU. And we talk about the upcoming conference on the 16th and 17th of November this year. I'm all booked to do attend, and we thought it would be good to tell you more about the conference so you can see if it might be just the experience you're looking for.

[00:00:32] People soup, season six, we'll be back soon with a great set of guests and all your favorite features. But for now. Got a brew on and have I listened to my chat with Louise murkier?

[00:00:46] Ross: Professor Louise McHugh, welcome to PeopleSoup.

[00:00:50] Louise: So happy to be here with you. I love this podcast.

[00:00:53] Ross: thank you so much, Louise. And Louise, you'll be familiar with my research department. And they're just coming back of their summer break, and more importantly, I want to get you on the podcast in a different role. sometime probably early next year. So they've kept their contribution short this time but they'll go into more depth the next time we speak because we're here for a very special reason today.

[00:01:18] Louise: We are, we've got the UK and Republic of Ireland ACBS chapter conference coming up in November the 16th and it's our first time we've had the conference over a weekend. So we're hoping that that kind of the variety of that would also bring diverse and different people to the group that for various reasons might during the week, uh, have to sort of miss out on income.

[00:01:41] Um, and. This one is the sixth one that we've had as a UK and Ireland chapter, so it's, it's pretty exciting. And it's going to be in London, which the London conference that we did before was our sort of biggest, um, and with that broad audience, [00:02:00] and we're really excited that there's going to be lots of people from the different European chapters coming as well.

[00:02:05] So yeah, it's exciting.

[00:02:06] Ross: Brilliant. And just for those of you who haven't met Louise yet, Louise is a professor of psychology and head of department. at University College Dublin and head of department in psychology I should say. And we're speaking on quite a momentous day because this is your first day as the head of department.

[00:02:27] Louise: It is. It's an exciting day for me and it poured rain beyond any Dublin belief so hopefully it's not pathetic fallacy.

[00:02:37] Ross: But that also means that pouring of rain means that Louise is wearing a rather fetching UCD sweatshirt, a hoodie should I say.

[00:02:48] Louise: Had to go straight to the student union shop and uh, the only option was to buy the local merch. So I'm now looking like a brand ambassador for my department.

[00:02:57] Ross: Yeah, bang on brand. I bet people are just thinking. God, she's so committed to this role.

[00:03:03] Louise: I think they're thinking, dear God, it's not going to be a uniform, is it?

[00:03:08] Ross: Aye, keep them on their toes, that's what I say. you're the director of the UCD CVS Lab and you're the president of the ACBS UK and Republic of Ireland chapter. So, as you've said, we're here to talk about the conference, so let's dive straight in. You've mentioned the dates. Let's just recap on those.

[00:03:28] 16th and 17th of

[00:03:30] Louise: Yeah, in UCL in London.

[00:03:33] Ross: Right, so that's University College in London. It's a Saturday and a Sunday. And tell us about the theme of the

[00:03:39] conference,

[00:03:39] Louise.

[00:03:40] Louise: So the theme we picked is expanding horizons. So it's nurturing connections and growth in contextual behavioral science. And so we really wanted to sort of focus on keeping the, the broader disciplines and just psychology and then thinking towards, you know, connections being sort of the piece that we always [00:04:00] have as sort of central to what ACBS does so well.

[00:04:02] But then also thinking about connections in the sense of like networks in, in, in the way that, you know, everything's connected and everything's related. and then also wanting to look towards growth and I guess the sort of the future for the UK and Ireland chapter in, in, in that growth while maintaining our connections and integrity to our, uh, research foundations, you know.

[00:04:21] Ross: Wonderful. And I just want to add a personal note in there, if I may, because I, As you know, I moved to live in Spain coming up to three years ago, which is incredible that that three years has passed. I saw the advert last year for the hot topics and kind of networking event in Birmingham, and I was humming and harring, but my real inner compulsion was, God, I'm so going to this. I want to reconnect with my community, and I was so enthusiastic when I signed up that sometimes, you know what it's like when you say, I'm gonna go to a party and then the date gets nearer. As it got nearer, I thought, oh, I felt a bit like, oh gosh, I just got too much on.

[00:05:05] Nevertheless, I got on that plane to Birmingham and I had the best time ever. it felt like a warm hug from my ACBS UK and Republic of Ireland family. So many people I hadn't seen for a while, partly because of the pandemic, but it just felt like I was just like a warm embrace that I was back there.

[00:05:27] So I would, I would hazard a guess that if someone was coming for the first time, they might also have that sense of a, of a warm embrace from the people there.

[00:05:37] Louise: Definitely. So the, every second year we have the, the, what was the Birmingham event last year, it's like just networking and then the conference. And now we're from the Birmingham last year, networking. Now we're moving into the con for the London conference. And, you know, of course it'll be lots of, many of the same people will be at those events as sort of people who, Come to a lot of our, our chapter events and it, you know, it, it really, that Birmingham event, it felt so [00:06:00] warm.

[00:06:00] I mean, it just felt like a really, I got it like a coming home and really creative in terms of the ideas. And a lot of the stuff discussed at that has kind of been implemented in our chapter in different ways. So, you know, all the ideas from other people there was amazing. And of course, definitely then if you're a new, if you're new to ACBS, for the UK and Ireland chapter, we're planning and having, definitely we'll have a little rookies retreat version or session in the first.

[00:06:23] And what I mean by that is like in the first hour, we'll definitely get everybody who's new together with people who are not so new and, and, you know, make sure that they already immediately get into the community and, and, you know, feel included straight away.

[00:06:38] Ross: Great, great. And I know that all the details, and we'll put this in the show notes for this episode and in the social media postings, all the details are online now on the website of the whole program, the how you can reserve your ticket and sign up. And I think there are some special ticket prices, is that right?

[00:06:59] Louise: So we have, um, a number, we have sort of set, we set up our pre conference workshops to be fundraisers for tickets for low income and students so that they could, there is a lower rate for low income students, but actually these are sort of free tickets for As many as we raise funds for. And at the moment we've so far raised the funds to bring 12 students, uh, or low income people.

[00:07:21] So the applications are open at the moment and it's first come, first serve, for people to get those free tickets. And they, that kind of opened a week ago. Um, and there was an email out over the UK and Ireland listserv. and so if, if you know anyone that get them to forward you the, the link to that, uh, and it's also on our, our website about it.

[00:07:39] So there is a way to to if, if you're even thinking it's outta your reach. Financially, we've been sort of raising those funds to get people to be able to access this experience as well. And the way we did it was we did, um, sort of in line with what was important to us is getting training out in an accessible way to as many people as possible, scalable way.

[00:07:58] so we, sort of the [00:08:00] way we did our pre cons were online, and we did them sort of once a month and the build up to the conference where we had five different ones, two are left, three are done, and all proceeds went to students, uh, or low income tickets. But also the, to attend them was only 10 pounds sterling, which is for attendance, attendance at like a three hour skills workshop, a really low rate, certainly in the UK and Ireland.

[00:08:24] and so. We've had amazing signups to those and they're available to everyone because the recording is available for two weeks afterwards. So even if it's not your time zone, so we've had an amazing uptake on that from people within our chapter and beyond. And we had one, uh, with It was the first one and that was a pro social and health care.

[00:08:43] And then we had Henry Whitfield do sort of psychedelic therapy. And, Alison Stapleton looked at neurodiversity and neuroaffirmative practices. and the last two, the next one is coming up, on the 25th of September and that's on supervision with Jim Lucas and Sarah Benkwitz. and then in October the 10th, we've got, education with Duncan Gillard and they're both like for 10 pounds, you know, do not miss them.

[00:09:07] Ross: Unbelievable that those prices are superb. And the speakers, these are, these are world class speakers, folks. And it's all also to raise more money to enable more students or people on low incomes to get a free ticket and come along to the conference. So it speaks to who the chapter is as a, as a collective.

[00:09:28] And yes, all the details for that are on the website too.

[00:09:32] Louise: I guess I was thinking like in line with what you're saying, you know, I because ACBS has grown so much, you know, since that, you know, it, the first world conference for ACBS was like in 2003 and, and today. And, I suppose when our huge and the local chapters and even I suppose with climate change as well, like the local chapters and the events that they can run are becoming increasingly.

[00:09:53] sort of important for community building pieces, so that you're not sort of in a conference of 900 people, but you're more [00:10:00] in a conference of, you know, a couple of hundred people where you can really get to know the community. so yeah, I think these, these chapter conferences are really a really important part of, of ACBS now, you know.

[00:10:10] Ross: Yeah, folks, and if you're a PSuper and you're interested in the guests I have and the sort of science we talk about to support you in the workplace, then maybe this is the right arena for you to become a little bit more immersed in the world of ACBS and think, Think how you can gain insights from different disciplines as well, cross disciplines, because it's great to hear people talk about different areas and personally, I could do that.

[00:10:36] And I think, how can I apply this in the workplace? So yes. And if anyone has any, any questions, please come and ask me. If you, if you're a workplace kind of person and you're thinking, well, will this really be useful for me? Come and have a chat because I guarantee it will.

[00:10:54] So, do please check out the, the website, because there's a great range, and this takes me on to my next theme, I think, of keynote speakers. Who've, who've we got lined up for keynotes?

[00:11:05] Louise: Yeah, we've amazing keynotes. Um, and you know, we, one thing we do is we always play to our strengths of, of people in our keynotes that are based in our UK and Ireland chapter and doing amazing things. and, uh, one of the, the, keynote speakers is, uh, you know, somebody we all know and love if we've been to ACBS chapters before, Joe Oliver, um, he's going to do a really exciting piece around back to the future.

[00:11:28] Okay. Um, looking at the UK and Ireland chapter, the history, where we came from, how we've developed, and where we need to go, and how we can grow in really effective ways. and Joe always does things in, in really tied into the science way. I, you know, I think it'll be, it'll be exciting. It'll be really exciting to see what he says about that.

[00:11:45] Um, And then we have, Dr. Jessica Kingston from Royal Holloway. and she's got a sort of context of a science lab there, and she's a big trainer of the clinical psychology students there. and so she's going to be looking at, you know, in particular how [00:12:00] we can use the processes of CBS. to enhance meaning, well being, and trust, both inside and outside of the clinical practice. And then we have Riska Solomon, and she is going to be looking, uh, doing our relational frame theory plenary, and she's going to be looking at using contextual behavioral science. everywhere all at once while applying RFT to all levels of the sort of interdisciplinary therapy services. Um, and she works a lot with autism and sort of applying RFT across the board there as well.

[00:12:31] So that would be sort of, you know, really kind of exciting seeing how she's practically applying all that RFT work and making a difference. And then the last of our, our four speakers is now Kashita and now is doing incredible work with acceptance and commitment therapy and carers. and she's got a, you know, digital app and she's got digitally delivered self help for carers.

[00:12:53] So she'll be talking about that work she's doing over there in the UK.

[00:12:55] Ross: That's, that's quite a lineup. And that itself it's worth my, my flight to, to London for that weekend. But as well as that, we've got, um, symposia, we've got individual sessions, we've got, let me just see, I've got, I've got some printed off panel discussions and skills classes. So it really is.

[00:13:18] A wealth of opportunity and you can choose the ones that you really want to go to. Are there any, any that you'd like to highlight from the, I know it's difficult to pick out maybe, maybe three or four, but any that you'd highlight from the skills and, uh, panel discussions, et

[00:13:35] Louise: Yeah. Well, so the personal favs, um, or ones that I'm looking at myself, Ross White is going to do a workshop on ACT and sports. Be more like a tree. and you know, I, I know he writes the books on that and, and does so much work in that, that I think that would be a really exciting workshop, always. Um, and then in terms of some of the research side of stuff that I'm excited to see, um, [00:14:00] Freddie Jackson Brown and his group are going to be looking at AI work and relational frame theory and presenting research on that, which, you know, kind of blow the mind really what the possibilities are there.

[00:14:10] And then another skills class that I really like the look of is with Ricky Kelgart on, creative hopelessness, which is, you know, it's like essentially it has to kind of be the beginning of any kind of act intervention, you know, it's so pivotally important with it's the functional assessment, you know, I suppose we think in behavioral terms.

[00:14:29] So I'm really excited. And, you know, yeah. REC A brings such high energy to these and really makes everything just feel like, not even feel like you're learning, but you're just learning everything. You know what I mean? It's so much, so engaged and fun. Um, then there's a, going to be a session by, uh, with, Joseph Lavelle and Orla Moran and Alison Stapleton looking at single case experimental designs.

[00:14:49] And they're going to be specifically sort of looking at process based therapy and this idea That I suppose in context, we have a science we talk about a lot, which is looking at the individual, not the group. Um, so they're going to do a nice workshop where they're going to be able to give people sort of a tool kit and some tools if they want to sort of do more single case designs in their work, um, which I think would be really, really nice of a nice suite of materials.

[00:15:12] And yeah, I think it'll be really worthwhile. No matter what, where you're trying to do research, the single case design stuff makes it more manageable and particularly if you've got unique populations that are hard to get, which I don't know about you, but recruitment is always the hard to get research, right?

[00:15:25] And numbers and dropouts. So, yeah, and then there's going to be a great panel on supervision as well, um, where Sarah Cassidy and Jim Lucas and Sarah Benquist are going to come together and talk about this whole issue of supervision, um, And in another session, talk about why does ACNOT do CPD and should we, which people might be interested to hear about, or sorry, accreditation, should I say? yeah, so they'd be my kind of ones that I was pulling out.

[00:15:52] Ross: yeah, that just gives you a flavor folks. And like I said earlier, I wouldn't shy away if you, if you're [00:16:00] not clinical or perhaps educational, don't shy away from going to those sessions because I always learn so much because the people presenting present it in such an accessible way that it makes me think, oh yeah, the humans they're working with are the same as the humans I'm working with.

[00:16:16] Mine are just generally in the workplace, whereas for them, they're working with them in maybe a clinical setting or an educational setting. And there's some that, some others that really leapt out at me. Um, I'm going to say, oh well, rickies you've already covered. The sports looked really interesting.

[00:16:34] Something around compassion focused therapy, which is a relative of ACT. And. really interesting in organizations. there's one on building brighter futures using ACT in youth populations in schools. Where else did I want to go? Using metaphor in group settings. That would be amazing with Sandro Voy and Niklas Torneki. And, bravery and honesty.

[00:17:01] How to, or not to, talk about body image issues. And that's more of an issue in the workplace than you might imagine. I had a guest on, Quite recently Sarah Pegram who's done research around body issues and weight stigma and it's absolutely fascinating when you start to think how that might apply in the workplace.

[00:17:24] Louise: and there's three tracks at any time. So there's always, we kind of tried to balance it. There's like one research, but then there's always a sales class. And there's always, you know, if a panelist happened, we tried to divide them out. So. That you kind of find what's relevant to you at any given time.

[00:17:40] Ross: You and me know what it is, but I just wonder if you'd explain to the P Supers. Because it says on Saturday night there's something called Follies. What the hell is Follies, Louise? How would you describe that to a Martian from another

[00:17:51] planet?

[00:17:52] Louise: Follies is like a cabaret where, uh, where it's all about the sort of conference and contextual way of the [00:18:00] science more generally. So it might be a song that, that shifts the lyrics to engage in, um, a relevant topic that's happening or a relevant part of act. I think of like at the World Conference day for example.

[00:18:13] David Galanders did sort of change the lyrics of the Copacabana while we were in South America. And, you know, and, and, oh my God, did an absolute mic dropping performance, but you don't have to just be brilliant like that. He happens to be a good one. Um, you know, it's, it's all levels of, of, of, of good and bad, uh, entertainment allowed.

[00:18:30] Um, it could be a comedy sketch. it just can be sort of a video that's recorded with a comedy idea around it. It can be like a funny therapist client roleplay, but it's basically a cabaret or a suite of different type of ways of really Thinking light about ourselves and, and the work that we do, being able to be playful about that.

[00:18:51] and we're actually going to have a silent disco after the, that's the first time we've done that. We're having a silent disco after the follies, uh, as a, a way to rock on for the evening in a memorable way.

[00:19:05] Ross: Now, just for completeness sake, maybe explain what a silent

[00:19:09] disco is as

[00:19:09] Louise: I know, right? So we'll all have headsets and the music will be playing in our, in, in, uh, in our ears and we'd be dancing, but there would be no sound in the room. While we're doing that.

[00:19:22] Ross: And I've never been to a silent disco, so that's intriguing.

[00:19:25] Louise: neither.

[00:19:26] Ross: And I'm guessing, daft question, but everyone's listening to

[00:19:29] the same

[00:19:29] Louise: Do you know, do you know what is so funny about this conversation? Until I started describing it to you, because I just thought this is so fun, right? It never occurred to me that we'd be listening to different music. I think we are. I think we're listening to the same music.

[00:19:43] Ross: to be, otherwise if we're, if we're, if you and me are cutting shapes on the dance floor Louise, we might not be in the same rhythm.

[00:19:52] Louise: Yeah.

[00:19:53] Ross: and folks just going back to the follies, you are quite at liberty to sit and appreciate the hilarity from a [00:20:00] chair without a knee. involvement from yourself getting up on stage. So don't be alarmed by that. If that fills you with dread, the thought of audience participation or come on, why don't you get on stage?

[00:20:11] There won't be that. Please be reassured about

[00:20:13] that.

[00:20:14] Louise: All. Yeah. It's definitely totally on a voluntary basis of what would be enjoyable for the individuals. So I would say probably 20 percent of people, decide that they really want to do a folly and 80 percent of people probably are thrilled to enjoy the show.

[00:20:32] Ross: Yes. Yes. And continue networking. where are people attending from? Because you've mentioned some names. You've mentioned Ricky and I've seen that, um, Eric Morris is on the program too. Is Eric actually coming

[00:20:45] over?

[00:20:46] Louise: So, um, Eric and Jennifer Kemp are due to come over from Australia. So they are the furthest, and I actually meant to mention Jennifer Kemp's, uh, interceptive awareness workshop, which would be insanely amazing. so they're really the really furthest travelers. but we have people from. a number of people are going to come from the Romania chapter, which is the ACPS Romania chapter is growing at the moment.

[00:21:08] They're wonderful. And they've agreed they're coming. There's going to be people from Turkey, the Turkish chapter, the Polish chapter, are presenting. Uh, there's going to be people from the Italian chapter. and obviously the Swedish chapter, uh, with Nicholas and, uh, Ricky, uh, well Ricky's Denmark.

[00:21:24] And so we're really. You know, we're getting a broad audience, which is going to be really exciting. And then of course we're getting people from, the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, um, and England. So, you know, it's, yeah, it's going to be a really fun group. And I guess you're coming from Spain, right?

[00:21:40] Ross: Yeah, I was, I was merrily sitting here thinking, maybe I'll win the award for the furthest travelled.

[00:21:47] Louise: Yeah, no.

[00:21:48] Ross: And thinking, hell no. And there's one more symposium I want to mention, which I'm involved with. We've got a bit of a workplace vibe going on, and we're talking about psychological flexibility [00:22:00] across contexts.

[00:22:00] Thanks. Thanks. insights from ACT, interventions in the workplace and educational settings. So there's a band of legends alongside, I'm fortunate enough to be alongside them, and we're going to be talking about ACT in the workplace. So another great reason to join

[00:22:16] Louise: I want to attend that one as well. Tell me what's going to be the fun reason to attend that one.

[00:22:22] Ross: it's different from the others and we're talking about Some great research, the researcher that particularly sticks in my mind is Arianna Prudenzi, and her, groundbreaking research, and her, just her energy and tenacity as a researcher is, is

[00:22:40] amazing.

[00:22:41] Louise: Did you know that Dr. Prodenze, many moons ago, started her interest in context based science at the CBS lab in UCD when she was on an Erasmus Plus exchange? and of course, because she's brilliant, she, you know, of course, ran with it and made that internship into published work and, you know, that's just who she is.

[00:23:02] But yeah, it'll be amazing.

[00:23:04] Ross: So let's try and, let's try and explain what the experience will be like. What will people be seeing, hearing, feeling? I've described it as a warm hug, a friendly environment. Anything else you'd say about that environment?

[00:23:17] Louise: Yeah, I definitely think that It's not like other conferences in my opinion because It isn't about this type of trying to outdo each other or outsmart each other. there isn't so much of that writing kind of reflex where you're trying to be right. it really is a, you know, supportive environment.

[00:23:35] That's more about, you know, intellectual curiosity, definitely. But not making people's palms sweat with, you know, suits on and, and, you know, taking ourselves too seriously. I think it's more of a really caring about this and being passionate about it and wanting to support everybody to grow in this. So I, yeah, the community and the openness to, to welcome everyone in always feels, certainly from my perspective, certainly feels [00:24:00] like something that's, you know, It's different and sort of a calmer vibe than other conferences

[00:24:05] Ross: I love that, a calmer vibe, and I absolutely agree. So PSupers will be used to a question like this.

[00:24:12] It's kind of a modified question, but Louise, if you could represent the conference in a song choice. What might that song, what might that song be and why? Hehehehe

[00:24:26] Louise: make an Oasis choice since everyone my age seemed to try and get tickets this weekend for the Irish set up, but I'm not sure I'm going to be able to integrate that in that quick way.

[00:24:34] A song that I always liked for act was, um, you know, that one crazy. Um, just like me,

[00:24:41] Ross: I remember when, I remember when I lost my mind.

[00:24:44] Louise: , it's a really famous artist. Now it's Barkley.

[00:24:48] Ross: ah,

[00:24:49] Louise: So

[00:24:49] Ross: yes.

[00:24:50] Louise: maybe Niles Barkley is a song that I think about for the UK and Ireland chapter, and maybe act in a CBS because, you know, he talks about, you know, remembering when you lost your mind. And I think it is, When you sort of noticed that God so much of this is nonsense and not helping me like live the type of life I want to live and Again, it does that whole thing is like that realization that like does this make me crazy?

[00:25:13] Probably but you too because we all have these minds that are doing this nonsense So I think in these conferences this conference in the UK and Ireland and that we are the chapter of and world conference As well, it's it's that piece that Allows you to let go of your mind and I think

[00:25:30] connecting a more human level with the, with the, the group. And, and I suppose because the, why the UK and Ireland then I suppose, cause it's even a smaller group, which makes it even easier, you know, to sort of reconnect in that way and sort of defuse. We would say defuse, right. But I think

[00:25:46] to, to just get that peace of mind, it's kind of peace of mind, isn't it?

[00:25:51] Cause you kind of let go of all the chatter and just connect with people in a way that's fun and about what you care about, which is. I'm interested in this work. It's not about getting [00:26:00] stuck on comparing myself to others, which I think we often go into that space in conference mode. And it's more about, Oh, we all care about something similar.

[00:26:08] We can enjoy this.

[00:26:10] Ross: Brilliant. Thank you to you and Niles Barkley for, for that song, for that normalization for us all. So Louise, I'm going to say, thanks so much for joining me. on PeopleSoup and I take it as a firm intention that you're willing to come back in next year at some point. I hope for you early next year to talk about more about that RFT, relational frame theory, and possibly the topic of boundaries, really useful in the workplace.

[00:26:38] But for now, I want to say thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you at the conference and hope to see many of our listeners there

[00:26:45] too.

[00:26:45] Louise: Yeah, I really hope to see you all there. And thank you so much Ross for this chat. I, you know, as I said at the beginning, I love this podcast