Welcome to episode 222 of the Business Development Podcast.

And today I'm joined by Jamar Jones, author, branding expert, and one of the most inspiring voices in business.

From hip hop stages to corporate boardrooms, this is a masterclass in reinvention, resilience and building a brand that truly reflects who you are.

Stick with us, you are not gonna wanna miss this episode.

The great Mark Cuban business happens over years and years.

Value is measured in the total upside of a business relationship, not by how much you squeezed out in any one deal.

And we couldn't agree more.

This is the business of Development Podcast.

Based in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada and broadcasting to the world.

You'll get expert business development advice, tips and experiences and you'll hear interviews with business owners, CEOs and business development development reps.

You'll get actionable advice on how to grow business brought to you by Capital Business Development, CapitalBD CA.

Let's do it.

Welcome to the Business Development Podcast.

And now your expert host, Kelly Kennedy.

Hello.

Welcome to episode 222 of the Business Development Podcast.

Well, if that isn't a special number, I don't know what is.

Today, it is my absolute pleasure to bring you Jamar Jones.

Jamar is the founder of Foreva Media and has carved a unique path from his high school days as a passionate rapper to becoming a trailblazing entrepreneur and leader in personal branding.

His journey is a testament to hard work, resilience and the power of self investment.

Transitioning from the music industry to the IT field, Jamar harnessed his performance skills to excel in a corporate environment.

This diverse experience laid the foundation for Forever Media, where he now helps businesses and individuals amplify their brands through dynamic marketing strategies and compelling content.

Jamar's experience has earned him collaborations with prestigious clients like Marcus Lemonis, Vayner X and Red bull, securing over 200,000 in sponsorships through his podcast and events.

A seasoned entrepreneur, national keynote speaker and podcast host, Jamar's influence extends far beyond business.

His book change your circle, change your life and his impactful talks at renowned companies and events such as BMW and Summerfest Tech Showcase.

His dedication to empowering others recognized nationally, including a feature on Office hours by David Meltzer and a billboard in Times Square.

Jamar is a proud member of Forbes, BLK and the Black Excellence Society with a mission to champion excellence and create opportunities for entrepreneurs, leaders and creators globally.

Jamar Jones is not just transforming businesses, he's revolutionizing the way we approach personal branding.

Jamar, it's an honor and a pleasure to have you on the show today.

Oh, man.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You know, a lot of people ask about that, that long bio.

It's so.

It's so important, though, for framing.

You know, that's why people need to understand if they.

The first time that they're hearing about you, you want to have the right framing, the right foundation for a conversation to happen, so.

But I appreciate you having me on this, man.

It's going to be a great conversation.

It's going to be an awesome conversation.

And actually, don't feel bad today, I've just.

For whatever reason, my throat's bugging me.

Normally, I totally kill it.

And honestly, nobody will know anyway.

Anybody hear?

It's already been edited perfectly.

Sorry.

Sounds amazing.

But for all of you who are listening, I totally butchered his intro because I can't talk today.

But we're gonna do it anyway.

And actually, that's very relevant.

That's very relevant for this particular show, isn't it, Jamar?

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

Dude, this is.

This is round two for me and you.

And it's not round two because we recorded the first time.

It's round two because somehow in my research, I missed that you had a book, and we got on a great conversation.

We chatted for, like, 20 minutes, and I'm like, dude, I can't wait to do this show with you, but I want to read your book first.

And, man, am I happy.

I did, because it is an excellent, excellent book.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I really appreciate it, man.

It took a lot of time.

I mean.

Well, I actually released the book out in.

In six months.

Wow.

Which I know to a lot of people, that's.

That's very fast.

But it.

The concept of the book really was like, a collection of, like, 10 years of experience.

And the thought of Change your circle, change youe Life was about five years ago, and I just had this actually.

Sorry, sorry, hold on.

I gotta rewind this back.

Because Covid actually messed up everything.

It's actually 10 years ago.

It was 2015 is when that concept.

I got an old video of me sitting on a couch, and I'm like, change your circle.

Change your life, man.

And that was before I even thought of, like, a book.

Yeah.

It's funny how.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know what, dude?

Like, I really loved the book, and, you know, I read it from start to finish, and it's so much.

Not just a biography on your life.

Like, it's so much more than that if it ends up being a bit of a biography, but Then a gigantic self help book at the same time.

Yes.

And I loved the story and I connected with so much of it because so many of the things, especially with the bums side of it.

Yeah.

It's like, holy crap.

That was so me.

Like I, I connected with so much of that.

Like the person I was to the person I am today and the things that came and went to get there is so much of the book.

And I loved it, man.

I loved it.

We're going to chat about all the concepts of that today, but for those that are just hearing this for the first time, they haven't been introduced yet to Jamar Jones.

True.

Who is Jamar Jones?

Or should I say 4O?

Yeah, there you go.

There you go, man.

Dude, I've heard that in a minute.

Wow.

Wow.

Yeah.

So, you know, I am really kind of a special breed of, of, of an individual.

Like, I've had a lot of different life experiences from being a former hip hop artist forming for ti, Snoop Dogg, Kesha Cole, Common, Bone Thugs, and Harmony.

The peak.

I was doing about 100 shows a year.

Wow.

So I was, I was, I was cranking and I was doing all the promotion, marketing, I formulated the team.

I was doing everything, you know, myself pushing that out there, really developing and, and pushing a personal brand that we're all talking about today.

But I've been personal branding for a very, very long time.

But I'm also, I worked eight years in it, worked my way up from a technician to an IT manager.

And now I, I run an agency for about the past 10 years, which is branding and, and media.

And we, we focus on brand building people's personal brands, man.

And, and like, I am super passionate about taking all that I learned from the entertainment world and applying it to business.

And that is how I'm able to do the things that I'm doing in business.

And also to help people achieve their goals by looking at what they have in their current situation and getting them to that next level.

With all the things that I've learned throughout the, the past and the history, and I just apply it to people's lives and their businesses.

And I just have a knack of like seeing things further than what people can see for themselves.

And I love it, man.

I love working with people and getting real results for them.

Yeah, yeah, no, for sure, for sure.

Dude.

I want you to take me into your time in the music industry, though.

You are one of, like three people in over 220 episodes that have been from the music industry.

Like, that's how rare it is in this field to really talk to anybody from the music industry.

And you weren't just in it.

Like, you were.

Were in it.

I was in it.

I was in it.

I had the chance to speak with one of our guests.

One of our guests is Zale Moransky.

And actually he was a pop star, like a little.

A kid pop star.

And so I had a great conversation with him.

And you know what he honestly said?

He's like.

He's like, don't put your kids through that.

Feedback on.

He's like.

He's like.

It was like.

It was a really challenging thing for him as a kid, especially because I think the band only lasted like four years.

Like, it was a.

It was like a really.

It was just the moment, right?

It was the moment.

The late 90s, early 2000s boy band moment.

And he said, like, it was.

It was really crazy because they became really popular and then kind of faded away.

But, like, he had to, like, reinvent himself and so much of obviously change your circle, change your life is about reinvention.

But yeah, it.

It was an interesting.

It was an interesting view.

And I hadn't.

I hadn't ever seen it.

I'm thankful I got to have it.

But I would love to have your view from essentially a decade later, from that time, you know, run me through it.

What was it like trying to get into the music industry and obviously working your way up that ladder?

Yeah, it's.

The music industry is the hardest, really.

The entertainment industry is the hardest, toughest industry, I think, compared to any other industry.

Any other one is extremely easier.

That includes even, like, now sports can be deemed as entertainment, but I even think, like, that's an athletic industry, you know.

Sure.

To have.

Be a professional in sports, entertainment.

When you think of comedy, music, even like Broadway, acting like that, the entertainment industry is brutal.

It's because there's no clear path to actually getting to success.

You know, like, if you think about sports, like, there's a path.

If you're good, you're gonna get found.

Scouts.

I mean, the.

The way on how colleges work and how they.

They.

They find different people, they get talent.

There's a whole system to find that in entertainment, you have a R, so artist representatives that are out there trying to find people, but there's no program really to be found.

It's.

Unless you're on like, America Got Talent or American Idol or something, I don't know, there's nothing really you could be found.

So there's like this.

There's this I always explain to people there's two modes to it.

So you have your starving artist, and then you have your successful, like, musicians or entertainers.

Yeah.

And the middle ground of that is, like, so gray.

It's.

It's crazy.

So it's one of the toughest industries to get into, so.

And I was a motivational hip hop artist, so I also had to develop my voice, my sound, everything that I, you know, need to figure out, really, my identity of me as an artist, which is, you know, very similar to developing your personal brand and your voice and your message and your story.

Yeah.

But I had to take that and then figure out what can I do that's unique to the market that I can actually get shows.

And so I was doing the thing where I was banging on doors trying to get shows.

I did.

I got a funny story that I've never told on a podcast.

Super funny story.

So, like, my probably third show that I ever did, my first show ever was at a talent show and at high school.

And then the third show I did with my guy Plex.

He's still one of my best friends to this day.

We performed at this church, and we had a manager at the time, and so I was probably about 17 years old, and then he was probably about 16 or 15 years old.

Can't remember exactly the time frame.

Yeah.

But we performed at this thing, and the power went out at the show.

So, like, we're in mid performance, Right.

We're getting it right.

We're mid performance, got a little crowd, power cuts out.

We are so amateur and didn't understand what to do that actually I ran out of the building.

I left the whole building.

I was running so far.

I hit Mickey D's down the street, man.

Because I was.

It was just like this frozen and then just like darted.

And I remember Plex following me because.

Because he didn't know what to do, so he followed me out there.

And then our manager was like, like, yelling at us, like, you get back on the stage.

And, like, I mean, she was just brutal.

Just brutal.

And.

Yeah, so that was a huge learning lesson.

I've never told that story, but it's like, it didn't happen overnight just to get really good on stage, you know, Like, I went through the, like, super embarrassments, but really, what.

Really, what worked for me to get to the success that I mentioned earlier?

Really, I did.

Did a lot of shows, did a lot of clubs and stuff, constantly perfecting the sound in the studio.

And then I would really.

I would start burning a lot of CDs back then.

This is back before a lot of streaming and stuff.

SoundCloud was starting to pop.

You know, you had Facebook and stuff like that.

And so I was burning a lot of CDs, and I would take it to different parties and college parties and stuff, and to start passing out the.

The mixtapes and stuff.

And then one day I was like, how can I figure out a way?

And I kind of.

I talked about this in the book, but how can I figure out a way to be where it's not all about me?

Because it was so tough to get shows.

You had gatekeepers.

You had all these people you had to go through.

And I was like, man, I'm trying to get out there.

And back then, like, you had to perform to get seen.

Like, yeah, you could start to build a little social media, but it wasn't like, what it is today.

Sure.

You know, there was a thing called SoundCloud rappers back in the day, you know, where you had to, like, grow your SoundCloud.

And that was.

That's what.

That's how you got popping.

But I had to figure out, like, how am I going to get these shows?

And I figured out a thing where I was like, you know, where's my audience?

I'm like, colleges.

Because college students are at least in this mind frame where they can accept, like, new music into their life.

They're not like, oh, man, the good old days.

This is all I listen to.

They're.

They're susceptible to new things.

And so, like, how can I get into colleges?

So I started to call these colleges just like, you know, on the main number, and I was like, hey, I'm trying to perform.

Blah, blah, click, click.

No, no, you know, gatekeeper.

Gatekeeper.

And then what happened is I was like, what if I attach myself to something bigger than myself?

And this was the epiphany moment because I was like, I had people in my family that have suffered from cancer, and I'm like, there is an organization called Relay for Life that are.

That's nationwide through all different colleges, and they.

They're attached to the American Cancer Society.

And so I started to then call the colleges and ask for the student services department for the.

For the president.

The student that ran the.

For president for that Relay for Life program.

Yeah.

So long story short is what.

What happened is I began to.

Finally, I started to bang on the door and see, do they need a performer?

And the whole conversation changed once I got the first performance, which is University of Superior Wisconsin, which is like, literally on the top of Wisconsin, like in the middle of nowhere.

That's the first university that I performed at.

It's literally on the top.

You look on a map and it's like on the top of it.

It's like a six hour drive from Milwaukee.

So if anybody's like, kind of knows where things are at, I got that.

And I got that, that opportunity.

And when I called them and told them, like, oh my God.

They're like, no one ever calls.

No one ever calls here.

We're surprised this ph even works.

We didn't even know it, right?

So we.

So I called them and they're like, I'm like, yeah, I'm trying to perform at the, at the Relay for Life event.

They're like, oh my God.

Yeah.

And then they asked me one crazy question.

They said, how much do you charge?

And as a starving artist, where you normally got to perform for free or even pay sometimes and then sell tickets and, and you run the whole thing?

I was like, how much I charge?

So I was like, like, 750, you know, I know.

And I was bringing the whole squad with me, you know, I was like, 750?

They said, oh my God.

Yeah, we, you know, we have that in the budget that that'll work and we'll also pay for travel and hotel.

And I was like, what?

And that was, that was the moment where I, I was like.

And then once I did that show.

So since I had that show, then I started to say, okay, what are some other places that I could perform since I was already in town.

Yeah.

And then that's when I got to perform at the largest nightclub in Wisconsin at the time called Scar Stargate.

Wow.

Nightclub.

Gigantic nightclub.

The owner was, I don't know, he was on some drugs or something.

There was something going on.

I feel like that might just be like par for the course.

You got too much money.

Van der.

He just.

There's nothing else to do with Superior.

There's like a couple docs, this college and this nightclub.

Like, that's it.

There's nothing else up there.

But I got to perform there.

And they also paid me to perform there.

But the reason why they, they accepted that was because I was already performing at the college.

Yes.

So they were like, yo, this guy must be a big deal.

We want him at the nightclub after.

And he's bringing people back, you know, over to the, to the spot.

So I use that philosophy is that when you think about business, what can you attach yourself to that's bigger than yourself and stop Making it all about me.

All the self promotion, like, no one cares.

But when you attach yourself to something bigger, all of a sudden, people then can attach themselves to that.

And then once you pick, get some momentum with that, then you can branch out and do other things and start to talk to other people.

And that is how I got so many shows.

So I started to just ramp it up.

Calls with about 100 calls a day, and I just started to snowball and I started performing at all these different colleges, all these different clubs, lounges, and.

Yeah.

And it just.

It just started.

What.

You were at your.

At your peak, you were doing a little over a hundred shows a year.

Yeah, 100 shows a year.

Like a show every three days?

Yeah.

Wow.

No, because.

So the weekends were.

So I literally would have sometimes three to four shows in one weekend.

Wow.

Like, I would travel to a spot, do a show, and then after that, do another show, stay overnight, do another show.

So, like, when I performed at Minnesota, I hit up a lounge spot, and then I did perform at the University of Minnesota, and then I performed at Hamlin University the next day.

And then I just drove back to Milwaukee.

Wow.

Oh, man.

Like, that's just so crazy.

Like, you know, just hearing your story, knowing some of the people you've opened for, it's like, you were right there.

You were.

I was right.

Right there.

And then.

And then what?

It kills me.

It kills me even to talk about it because, like, music is still, like, my number one passion, like, entertainment music.

There's no.

I still.

I speak on, you know, large stages now as a.

As a keynote speaker, but there's no feeling like when you're ripping up a stage, man.

And it got to a point, too, where people starting to know the lyrics, and it was.

I was starting to get that momentum, and it just kills me because if.

Especially with the technology that's out today, oh, my goodness.

Man, I just felt like it would have happened.

But also, I don't know if it was just my destiny to do that.

I mean, I can still record and do some things, but.

And for people to know the reason why I stopped is because I tore my vocal cords.

So I was performing at the University of Minnesota, actually, that.

That leg, that trip, and my vocal cords ripped.

It was like it basically stretched.

I was doing way too many shows and I overextended it.

And I can't perform full hour sets anymore.

Like, yeah, I can't.

Like, my.

I'll start getting real raspy and it won't work.

And I can't Talk for, like, two days.

Oh, man.

When I hit that in the book, like, and I knew this before, but when I hit that point in the book, and it was just.

You were talking about how, like, you were on stage, you're going.

And then just a crushing pain followed by the taste of blood.

And I was just like, oh, my gosh.

Like, in the middle of a set.

Like, that would have been just.

I.

Like, I'm sorry.

Like, that's all I can say.

Like, just from human to human, from someone who.

Who can totally feel for you and what.

What that must have been like.

I guess in the moment, you.

You didn't know how bad it was.

You probably thought, you know, I'll bounce back from this.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I performed the next day.

I kind of lip saying, though, you know, Like, I.

I didn't really go all out, but I thought that this would be fine.

Do I have this all on video?

Wow.

Like, I.

One day I need to, like, go find this and.

Yeah.

And.

And.

And bring.

And pull it up.

But, yeah, it.

It.

It wrecked me, man.

I didn't think that it was going to be something long term.

And I got a doctor, I saw a throat specialist and everything.

Got it all confirmed.

And I was like, dude, I need to.

Like, my identity was basically ripped, you know, from my body.

Yeah.

I don't know if there's any comic book heads.

I got a Marvel T shirt on right now, if anybody's listening.

But, like, you know, when.

When Venom, you know, basically gets that symbiote around him, and that's like, his identity.

Yeah.

And then if that gets taken away, he's a whole different person.

That's.

That's the best analogy I can give it.

Like, I lost that, and then I had to reinvent myself once again.

Yeah.

And figure out what I was gonna do.

My gosh.

And I wanted to spend some time there, Jamar, because I've talked to a lot of people who have had many failures before.

They had an extreme success, and some of them lost everything.

Their business, their houses, down to the last dime.

And I've talked to others who have sold their business for over $400 million and still experience that massive, crushing loss of losing a part of their identity entity.

And I wanted to chat with you about that because in that moment when you finally realized, holy cow, like, I think this is done.

How did you build yourself back, man?

How did you do it?

Because that must have taken you right to the brink.

Yeah.

And I'll.

And I guess I'll I'll be honest about.

So we.

We have one of our clients that kind of talks on this, on, like, dealing with your emotions and that negative and positive emotions are actually, like, you need to go through them and you need to understand them.

But I was depressed for two and a half years.

Yeah, I had to go through that kind of grieving almost of who I was.

And I was not the same individual that you see today.

I was, you know, got overweight.

I.

I was just like, I just lost him.

I.

I've.

I lost it because I was like.

Because I would then try to push myself because it's like, it's like an athlete that gets injured.

And then, like, in your mind, you think that you could still do these things, but then you try to do it and you can't.

So I would go push myself in the studio.

I'm like, yo, maybe I just got to, like, get through it.

Maybe the doctors are tripping and, like, they don't know what they're talking about.

And, like, I could just power through it.

And then it got worse and worse and like, you know, so I was.

I had to really sit with myself.

And then one day, actually through self development and self improvement in my own mindset, that's what kind of got me out of it.

Because I'm like, well, if this is not the avenue that I can go through right now, what else can I apply myself to?

And at the time, it was my IT job for like, the last, like, two and a half years.

And I applied myself and.

And killed it.

But I.

But as far as the self discovery, they actually really didn't.

I didn't really tap into who I am, who you see today, until I started my business.

That's where I started to get back into the entertainment.

That's how I kind of started, was getting back into the entertainment and teaching other artists.

And when they saw what I was doing a few years ago, at that time was like, a few years ago, they're like, dude, you are killing it, bro.

Yeah, I need help with some of the basics, you know, Like, I haven't performed three shows before.

You've done, like, hundreds.

Yeah.

So, like, you know, I was doing.

So I got some fulfillment through that.

And then.

And then it was just the teaching of helping others achieve their goals.

I kind of transfer that instead of me being the.

The focal point of the success in my own mind, because I have my own dreams, aspirations to.

To really grow.

And.

And then I also thought of this, this one critical moment where I was like, what was the ultimate goal of music besides, like, making people feel good or having a critical time in their life that they want to.

They listen to something, it helps them through, you know, fame.

Like, what was the goal?

And I remember sitting there and I was like, the goal was to create change in the world.

And then I'm like, maybe the vehicle just needs to be different.

And that was the biggest.

That's actually what got me over the hump.

Yeah.

Of where I was at.

Yeah.

I love that saying the vehicle needed to be different.

Because not long ago, I actually interviewed a woman named Liz Ryan.

She's very famous for HR and HR terms, and she wrote a really great book called Reinvention Roadmap.

And we talked about this ahead of the show, man.

Like, 2024 is a year of personal branding and reinvention.

Those are, like, the trendy things this year.

It's.

It's come up over and over again on this show, and you notice it.

Right.

Like we talked about it before the show, I feel like 2023 was, like, the year of AI.

Everyone wanted to talk.

Yeah.

And now 2024 is the year of personal branding and reinvention.

And yet these experts, like yourself, who I have coming on, you guys have been talking about it forever.

Forever.

It just happens to be on fire this year.

But it's so funny.

Like, you wrote this book in 2021 in the middle of COVID and I want to chat about that.

But, you know, Liz Ryan wrote her book way back in 2016, like, way before any.

Like, I don't even think I was using LinkedIn properly in 2016.

I know.

I know I wasn't.

How about that?

I'm not gonna.

I know I wasn't.

So it's just.

It's crazy.

It's funny how there's a time and a place for everything, and I think you are a shining, shining example of being right place, right time, being ahead of it.

And I talked with this about Liz Ryan, about being like, you were so far ahead, but it's.

Some people are just like, you.

You see that.

You see the curve come in way before it's coming.

Yeah, yeah.

It's.

It's like, you know, you just gotta have belief and have that.

That vision that.

That foresight, and just stick to what you believe in, because your time is coming.

Your time is definitely coming.

And it definitely is the season right now of rebranding and reinvention.

I think.

I think it's because it's a collective of layoffs.

People, you know, with, like, Inflation right now, where.

Where people are like, I got to do something on the side.

Like, I.

I got to do something for myself.

So people.

And then because we went through Covid, you know, they're like, yo, like, I'm not gonna rely on my.

These circumstances to dictate what my future is.

So I need to actually, you know, start to do things for myself.

And that's why I feel like a lot of people are doing these side hustles or going into entrepreneurship or reinventing themselves or even if they're in the corporate world, they're like, but I need a brand.

I need a brand, you know, So I have opportunities, you know, like, so I don't.

If my job lets me go, like, I got options, you know?

So I think that's right.

Yeah.

Well, let's just lead into it, because the book really goes right into that, where it's.

Everybody needs a brand.

You have a brand.

And you talk about this in the book.

You have a brand, whether you know it or not.

And that's the thing.

You have the choice to be able to take control of that and reinvent yourself in a way that you can choose where your brand goes.

So many people are just flying through life letting other people make their brand for them.

Oh, for sure.

For sure.

And it's like, you.

Everybody has a brand.

And so you have to ask yourself, do you want to control your brand, or do you want others to control it for you?

You.

That's.

That's the question.

Because everybody has a.

Has a personal brand.

And this is not for.

I just had a call this morning, and I have to do a better job.

And see, I'm always.

I'm always trying to refine, but I have to do a better job of articulating this, because when I talk about personal branding, this isn't just for influencers and celebrities.

That's not what we're talking about when we say personal brand.

I'm literally saying, who are you?

Besides just your work resume, who are you?

Don't be defined by just your company that you work at as your title, as the definition of you.

You have your own brand of the things you like, your values, your morals, your own story, your own unique journey and your skill set.

The things that you've done, your accomplishments, like these are all pieces to the puzzle to identify your unique personal brand.

Every single person has one.

Because what are they saying when you're not in the room?

Yes.

What are they saying when you're not in the room?

So if you can't Pitch and be able to be in those rooms to give yourself those opportunities.

What are they saying?

And that is your brand.

Because brand, the word brand is not just for Nike and Adidas and Apple.

And when we think brand, that's what we think of.

Because they're really good at it.

Yeah, because it's lifestyle.

You think of lifestyle, you think of technology, you think of these Apple commercials that are just so impactful.

Emotional connection.

But that is you.

What kind of connection, emotions do you give off?

What do you care about?

What are you.

What.

What's your lifestyle look like?

You know, these.

This is your brand.

And so you have to start thinking about your brand, whether you think that you like, I don't want to be an influencer or celebrity.

You got to think about this regardless.

And the more that you take this as and make this a priority, the more opportunities that you're going to have for yourself.

Yeah.

I would say at this point, it's not the influencers or the celebrities that we need to worry about.

Right.

It is everyone else.

It is Mr.

VP of Operations.

Right.

Who has worked at a company for 10 years and no one knows him but the people who work at that company.

Right?

Yeah.

Like, I don't think we need to be worried like the influencers.

And, you know, the, the famous people, the celebrities, they've got their personal brand on lockdown that not only do they have it on lockdown, they have someone that they pay that helps them build that.

Yeah.

They have somebody who works on that for them on their behalf.

Right, exactly.

Everyone else.

And, you know, that was really the conversation when I had with Liz, that was such a big hit home, where it really is.

No, and, and I'll tell you, I think that.

I think we're still, we're still on the cusp of this.

Like, this show is coming out early 2025.

And what's really cool is we're talking to people hopefully at a time when they're thinking about what can I do during this coming year?

Right.

And I really think that if you have not thought seriously about your personal brand, if you have not thought or, or decided, you know, what, what, what do I want the world to say about me?

What do I want people to say about me when I'm not in the room?

And it can be so much bigger.

We live in a time of social media, of influence, of just everything.

Everything is in your favor at this point to create a personal brand.

Like the, the tools.

The tools are right there.

You have no excuse.

I think what stops People is they think of somebody that they deem is to have a good personal brand, and they say, I'm not.

That that is what stops them because they're like, I can't mimic that.

I can't imitate that.

Yeah.

And the truth is, you don't have to.

And that's the best part about it.

Well, you just have to be uniquely you.

And don't imitate.

A lot of times you start to imitate.

People can sniff that from a mile away.

Totally.

You know, you're like, dude, you're just copying it.

You're just saying whatever this other guy's saying.

Think of, like, I mean, especially when Gary Vee started to pop.

Like, so many people started to like, I'm an nft, you know, influencer, and I could do this.

Or I.

It's like, dude, like, you don't even have your own voice right now.

Yeah.

Like, we know where this is coming from.

Yeah.

This is not even you.

Like, just be you.

And that's what the best part about it is.

Totally.

Totally.

I'll tell you, when I started this show, man, I was talking to a basement wall.

I didn't think anyone would listen.

I didn't think anybody would be listening.

Jamar, I you not.

I was like, you know what?

I have a business development fir.

I know business development like the back of my hand.

There's a lot of people that could just benefit from some weekly information.

And I love podcasts.

So I was listening at the Point, probably two podcasts a day.

And we still do all the time.

Like, it's.

It's the medium we love and the medium that the Kennedy household supports.

Yeah.

And so I was like, okay, well, why don't I try?

But, dude, was I afraid.

I was so scared.

And there's things that still scare me.

And I think fear.

And you talk about it in the book, like, fear is the thing holding everyone back.

And I you not.

Dude, when I started this show, I bought like, probably $2,000 worth of audio equipment.

Like, I went full pro from the beginning because that's just who I am.

I hate half assing anything.

Yeah.

But I didn't know what the hell I was doing.

I didn't know how to use any of it.

I didn't know how to edit the show, produce the show, anything.

And it sat in the corner of my room, and my fiance Shelby pulls me to the side and she goes, dude, sell it or do something with it.

But I want that out of our room in the next two weeks.

Wow.

And I Did, man, that night.

That night, that was it.

It was like probably like 6pm And I just went downstairs, I unpacked it all, I hooked it all up to the computer, and I recorded the trailer for the business development podcast.

Oh, my God.

So.

So can we.

Can we just pause for a second here?

Because.

Yeah, this is, this is the key.

So one, you had a push.

Yeah.

So you already deemed it as valuable.

Right.

You.

You bought, you invested $2,000 worth of equipment that you don't know how to use, and it just sat.

How long did it sit for?

How long did.

How long?

At least a month.

At least a month that it sat.

For 30 days or more.

And then you were basically an ultimatum.

You were presented with an ultimatum, either sell it or get right or you better just do it.

Like, I mean, it's like it's taking up space and you had to push through fear.

So somebody pushed you and you push through fear, though, because you're like, I committed to this in my mind, but I haven't put any action to it.

That's right.

So you took that step forward and saw the goal on the other side and said, you know what?

On the other side is me actually having an episode or having a trailer or whatever.

The first thing that was recorded, but the fear was stepping in front of.

In between that.

Yeah.

So you identify that the why got strong enough and you had a little push.

Just a little.

To actually go through.

Yeah.

To go through fear to get you to that other side to record it.

And now you're talking.

I mean, 222 episodes later.

Yeah.

And X amount of downloads, X amount of people that you've interviewed.

I mean, the accomplishments are incredible.

But it took you to start, and I want people to hear this loud and clear.

The number one thing, the reason why, I mean, you probably have heard this, but a lot of dreams die because you didn't start.

There's a lot of dreams that are sitting in the graveyard right now.

Lot of dead dreams, because they never got started.

And it's because of that fear.

But on the other side of fear is your goal.

So you have to think of a why that's strong enough and also think of who's supporting you.

And if you're going to do something, tell somebody about it, because then you have some accountability.

And they're like, hey, man, whatever happened to that podcast thing that you were saying you were going to do?

You know?

Oh, man, that's just.

That's sitting on the floor over there.

There.

And I every.

When Are you gonna do something with that?

Man, you really should do something.

You need a push.

You need accountability.

So.

So tell somebody about it.

Tell somebody about it to.

To push you through to your goals.

And I.

I talk about it on this show a lot.

Episode three almost was the end.

Like, I think I.

Wow.

I had recorded the.

The first, the second, the third episode.

And you know what?

This was me.

I'm like.

I'm like, man, I don't sound good on this episode.

Like, I don't think I did this one very well.

Like, it was just completely like, imposter syndrome.

I think I was just.

I was experiencing, like, the most imposter syndrome I think I've ever have on this show.

Yeah.

But you know what?

I released it anyway, and I went back the next week and I recorded the next show.

And you know what?

It was just a hiccup.

What's funny is I've never had one person reach out and say, your episode three sucked.

Not one person has ever.

Nobody's ever been like, what the hell were you thinking on episode three, Kelly, why the hell did you release that show?

Not one person ever.

I'm the only one, other than everyone else who's heard me talk about it more than once on this damn show.

But it really is.

You're going to face your own fears and your own imposter syndrome, but they're just temporary.

And you talk about it in the book, right?

Fear is so temporary.

Imposter syndrome can never stay forever because it's impossible to suck at something forever.

Especially if you try.

That's right.

Especially if you.

You put your foot forward in front of the other and you just go into the next episode.

Now, if you stopped at three and there's only three episodes, then, yeah, maybe somebody finds episode three.

That's right.

That's right.

I was gonna say, by the time you have 200 plus episodes, good luck.

Right.

Like there's.

Yeah.

Who's gonna find episode three?

And if you do, you're already like, you've.

You've digested other content.

You've digested other stuff.

You're like, okay, you know, you don't even notice it.

You don't even notice it.

That's right.

It's.

You know, the longer that I've gone on in this show as a business owner, what I've realized is that what I actually have to do is put myself in as many uncomfortable situations as I can because I don't grow in the day to day.

I don't grow in the success I grow in the challenge, which is crazy.

Like, I never.

I think there was a part of me that thought when I would start a business, that I would just hit a point where it's like, all good.

Like, we're just coasting along and the money's coming in and life is all great.

But that's.

It never lasts.

You have to be constantly challenging yourself, looking for that thing you're scared of and running right at it.

And I.

I find that now I'm being presented with more of those opportunities, and I think it's just.

Just the universe throwing in my way.

But, yeah, my mindset has changed on it.

My viewpoints have changed on the things that scare me to.

If you're scared of it, you need to.

You need to challenge it.

You need to figure out what it is about that that's scaring you.

And most of the time, it's nothing.

It's just.

Just.

It's like an irrational fear.

It's all.

It's all in your head, and you're having conversations with yourself, and a lot of times you're talking yourself out of it because you don't.

People are scared of the unknown.

That's really what it comes down to.

And especially for people that are very analytical and they.

They don't like to take risks and they want a sure bet on things.

But you have to.

To grow, you have to live in that uncomfortable space.

It's.

It's just how life works.

You.

You.

If you become comfortable, you start to decay, you start to die.

I mean, you.

You start to wither away.

It.

The more comfortable you.

More comfortable you become.

I mean, this is.

If you think about it, this is how like the human makeup is.

Is designed.

If somebody doesn't exercise, if somebody does not active, the older that they get, the more it becomes a concern.

The more comfortable that you seek for yourself and just relaxation, sitting on the couch and not being active, the more that your body actually starts to.

To go the opposite direction.

And it's the same thing with the growth mindset.

Like, you have to be pushing yourself and getting to those uncomfortable moments for growth, for opportunities, for.

For you to actually push yourself and actually move yourself from one point to the next.

And that's where you have to constantly be doing and constantly keep changing your circle and really just keep looking for those uncut.

So those moments that you're talking about, obviously, also, I will preface this as an entrepreneur.

Saying yes to everything is probably not a good idea because you will start to get too thin of time and Effort and energy.

But if there's a great opportunity.

Yeah, of course, go.

Go for it.

I mean, see, hey, how, how can it work?

I mean, it's.

A good friend of mine, Randy, he always said this, this, this quote where he said, it's not about what you can't do, it's about what you can do.

So always have that can do attitude where you're thinking of if you're posed of a problem or there's an opportunity in front of you, just say, how could I do it?

How could instead of thinking pessimistic and thinking like, oh, it's never going to work.

It's not for me.

That's not me.

I'm not set up right now.

I don position.

But just, just try to go through the exercise of saying, how could it work first.

Yeah.

And you'd be surprised on, like, where that gets you in life.

Well, that and winging it, right?

And winging it.

Yeah.

You gotta.

Hey, you gotta wing it.

Hey, Kelly, I like you, man.

I like you.

I like you.

You gotta wing it, man.

Because, like, not everybody has the answers.

Like, if you think that everybody has the, the exact formula for success, you're dead wrong.

You're absolutely dead wrong.

Yeah.

So you have to wing it and gain a little bit of that confidence in yourself and say, I'm gonna say yes.

And then figure out the rest later.

You know, I'm going, I'm going to deliver on this.

And in.

It happens all the time.

In business, people think that leadership knows everything that, that they're doing.

Or maybe they have good, you know, resume, accolades.

They came from a fancy, you know, other company.

Now they're at this new place and they think they got it all together.

They don't.

They have winged it to a certain degree to be able to put confidence in themselves and put a bet on themselves, and they delivered, and that got them further in their career.

And that's where the magic happens.

When you can place that bet on yourself, that's where the magic happens.

Almost everything is trial and error.

Like, almost everything in business is trial and error.

Right from the top down to the bottom, it's trial and error.

They might, they might walk in that room and look like the most confident people ever and put together this plan and say, this is what we're doing.

Trust me, if they haven't tried it before, they're winging it.

They're seeing if it works.

They're totally winging it.

Yeah.

I think this should work.

This is gonna work, right?

This podcast is like the best example of a Kelly just winging it.

I knew nothing.

Like, nothing at all.

Nothing about speaking to a microphone or people, nothing about podcast equipment, nothing about editing, nothing about, like, how to market this.

Like, I knew how to do business development really well in a B2B setting with me and another person.

This is so different from that in every way.

And I.

I'm still learning 222 episodes in.

I still have a lot to learn.

This show gets better month over month, week over week, year over year, because there's new things that I learn and new things that I implement.

I feel like I never.

I will never stand here and say that I am an expert.

I am an expert until yesterday.

Tomorrow, brand new day, new lessons to learn.

And I could be not an expert before you even know it because technology is changing so quickly.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's.

I always tell people, like, you got to do things in iterations, so don't think of the long term goal, especially with podcasting.

So one piece of advice for, for podcasting is that when you start your podcast.

I just told us literally to.

I had a sales call today.

Literally, today I talk about starting a podcast because, you know, a lot of people come to me for that because we have a successful podcast as well.

And like, we know this.

We know this space as well.

And I said, I don't want you to even look at your stats.

Don't.

Don't look at the stats until you hit episode 30.

Don't look at it.

Because what happens is people get discouraged.

Most podcasts quit at episode seven.

Most of them, yeah.

So, yeah.

And it's funny that you said three.

Three was really your mind.

We have been.

We have such amazing, amazing listeners on this show.

Listeners who literally went on later to become sponsors too, which has been so cool.

Yes, that's amazing.

One of our sponsors is Hyperbac Technologies, the owner of that company.

His name is Colin Harms.

He's an absolutely remarkable individ.

But he reached out to me on episode 21.

I didn't even know this, but he sent me this, like, statistics, like, great job, Kelly.

I think it was like, only 1% of podcasts ever make it to episode 21.

I had no idea.

But what he didn't know at that time, once again, Jamar, was that I was struggling internally with, like, why am I doing this?

Like, it doesn't pay anything.

It's a lot of work.

Like, this is really hard to produce a good show and do it well.

And I.

It was, dude, it Was that like.

It was that divine kick in the ass that I needed right at that moment.

And I, you know, I shouted him out.

I feel like it was like our 150th episode or 100th episode, and I just like.

Or I think it was our 121st episode because, just because of the synchronicity of it.

And I told the story, but it's like, it's amazing.

Just sometimes you get the right kick in the butt at the right moment.

Yeah.

And it's good.

It's.

It's good you got that too.

Because.

Yeah.

And, and that you actually just further double down on.

Don't.

Don't look at the.

Because you, you're going to get discouraged.

You're like, who's listening to this thing?

This thing takes a long time to produce.

Like, why am I doing.

This is a, this is a time suck for me.

It's like, just get to, if you're gonna commit to it, get to episode 30, then look at your stats, then look at what you got going on.

Because you're gonna look at it and it's gonna be episode 10.

You're like, man, I got 15 downloads.

Like, what's going on?

You know, like, you're not gonna have this big audience until you put the work in.

I mean, it's.

And, and you also have to have an audience to start with.

A lot of these companies and people that start podcasts don't have a platform, they don't have an audience that if they release it, they get immediate attention.

So you're trying to start something with like an empty stadium.

So, like, you have to keep showing up like a comedian at the same bar and keep doing it and showing up, showing up, showing up until that bar is full and you're like, dude, this is my 70s, you know, second time performing this bit.

Yeah, no, I agree completely.

And, and the only thing that I would add to that is celebrate every win.

Celebrate your first 100 downloads.

Celebrate your first 1,000, your 10,000, your 50,000.

And they go up quick.

But like, celebrate everyone, because everyone is a hard fought battle.

It does not like it.

I think we were, I think we rolled over our first thousand downloads within, within two months, which was like, it was such a huge deal.

We couldn't believe.

We're like, this is a thousand.

People listen to the show at this point.

We're probably pushing 300, 350,000 or more.

By the time the show comes out.

But the point is, is that, that honestly, there's a part of me that.

That cherishes that first thousand almost more than 100,000 or 150,000.

It was hard.

It, like getting to that first thousand downloads was so much harder than taking that 10x to 100,000.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And this is.

This is just such a good conversation because for someone, it's like the analogy is perfect because for someone starting their personal brand, like, even I know a lot of people with starting their personal brand, they want to get into podcasting or they.

They want to speak on stages, they want to grow their social media.

Like, this is a journey.

This is a process.

You're not just going to instantly get success, like, right when you start this stuff.

So what you're saying, Kelly, is literally the journey that people have to take, really, no matter what they do.

So when you go on this journey of personal branding, just take one step in front of the other, keep showing up, keep trying and celebrate those wins along the way.

Like, celebrate that.

Because you're not going to get this amazing success until you put the work in.

And through repetition, through consistency, that will guarantee you success.

You have, but you have to show up, up.

Too many people start something and then they fail and then they quit because they're just like, it's not serving me.

I'm not seeing the results.

It's taking too long.

And also divine timing is different for everybody.

You know, like, you started your podcast, somebody else may have started their podcast right around the same time and had even more success faster than you, but it wasn't your time yet.

It wasn't your time to.

To have that really click, and that's okay, but you have to.

But if you would have stopped, you would have.

You would have made it for sure that you wouldn't have.

You wouldn't had your podcast be as successful as it is today, but if you continue and you stay consistent, that's how you guarantee success.

That's right.

That's right.

I.

I would argue that, too.

It's like just the grit and determination to keep going because obviously you're going to have a hard time, too.

There's no ups and ups and ups, forever, endlessly.

That's not how business works.

That's not how podcasting works.

Marks, to this day, we have amazing months.

We have super amazing months, and we have months like it.

Right?

Even this, even as a successful show, it's not amazing all the time.

There's some.

Some months are better than others.

And a lot of it, I'll tell you what doesn't even make any sense.

And you know this.

You're in podcasts, you'll be like, what the hell?

Like, we did great last February.

Why is this February shitty?

Like, a lot of podcasting statistics do not make any sense.

The, like, rhyme or reason to why people listen when people listen.

And so you're right.

It's like if you can't just commit to the long game, the long game is where the success lies.

Because you could have, let's say, two months that were really bad, and you're like, screw it, I'm gonna shut down the show.

But the third, the third month could have been tripled or quadrupled numbers, and you would never know because you didn't do the last month.

So you have to stay in it.

And that's the same for business.

You got to do the long game too, because it works the same way.

It's just.

It's just like that meme that has the.

The guy that's digging.

Have you seen that one where he's like, digging and, like, there's a wall and then he like, turns around and like, he's walking away.

But on the other side of like, the rocks is like gold.

It's like this big gold mine just walked away.

There's like this much left.

Yeah.

And you just don't know.

And you know, I mean, I used to.

I remember back in my sales days, I would always say, you don't know which one's your million dollar phone call, so you got to pick it up and make the call.

Right.

You gotta.

Because you just don't know.

You could be one away.

You never know.

But you gotta call until you get it.

Yeah, yeah, you gotta, you gotta keep calling, man.

I mean, you just never know.

You just never know.

And I think that's why just showing up and being consistent, that's why it wins.

And that's.

I try to break this down to the most simplistic way for people to actually take action.

And that's one thing in the book is like, like, I break everything down into actionable steps.

So like, literally something that you could, like you read a chapter, what are the takeaways?

What are the action steps?

But I try to break this down into a very simplistic way for people just to get started.

Because that is oftentimes the number one thing that's hindering them from success or from taking action.

It's just literally the action of just getting started.

And so I want people to listen to this and say, you know what?

Enough's enough.

Stop making excuses and just take A step.

Just do it today.

Do it today.

Here's the push that you need.

You're listening right now.

Take the step.

Stop making excuses.

Shut up and get to work.

Just do it.

Yeah, yeah, it really is.

It's.

That first step is the hardest one.

After that, you start to gain a little bit of momentum, and every step after that is easier, but you got to do the first one.

The first one is the hardest.

And, you know, we're talking to a lot of people today that are, you know, maybe they're hearing this.

It's resonating.

Jamar.

They are.

They're on board.

They're like, I get it.

Like, I got to do something with my personal brand.

Dude, you are a personal branding expert.

You work with companies.

You work with people to help them develop their brand.

What is the starting point?

Can we give people a little 101 on how to do that first step?

Where should they start?

Yeah, I.

Great question.

A fantastic question.

I always tell people they got to work inward before they go outward.

So too many people want to just start with being on stage, getting the attention, having a great LinkedIn profile or Instagram profile, just.

Just killing it, and whatever the outward marketing and promotion method is.

You have to start with identifying your unique story.

That's where you have to start.

What makes you unique in the marketplace that know, like, what are your unique skills?

What do you do flawlessly that no one else like that other people struggle with?

Identify what your story is.

So I always.

I always like to identify this as like a hero arc.

Everything is comic book related for me, guys.

I.

Okay.

It's.

It's literally like, that's.

You see it on the back wall.

If you're watching on the back wall, there's Iron man, there's Justice League.

Like, everything is comic book related.

Okay.

So I gotta get that out the way.

So it's.

It's a hero arc, right?

A good hero arc is somebody that has a.

A beginning, a humble kind of beginning of.

Of where they came from.

They.

They have a challenge and they overcome something in a journey in.

In kind of a.

In their arc.

They have.

They're.

They're trying.

They're striving for something, or maybe they had something happen to them and they have to overcome something, and then at the end of it, they have a solution to that problem or to the thing that they overcame.

And so identify what your hero arc is.

What does that story look like?

What.

Define a time that you.

Maybe one of your top clients that you've worked with what was the hero story?

Define a time that you had the biggest challenge in your life.

What was the biggest challenge?

Not just business wise.

It could be relationships, it could be friends, it could be motivational, like if you had a car accident or something, like whatever the biggest challenge was that you had in your life, identify that and figure out what that hero story is.

What's the foundation?

What was the challenge?

How did you overcome it?

And then what was the solution?

At the end of the day, that makes you the expert of that challenge because you've gone through it.

You have lived experiences that need to be shared and need to be talked about.

And that's where we start with, with our clients.

Is, is the story the message, what sets them apart?

And I'm telling you, after you get one of your stories, put that into a social media post especially.

I, I think a lot of listeners on here, I think are on LinkedIn as well.

Because, yeah, business development, I mean, you got to be on LinkedIn.

If you're not, I don't know what you're doing, I have no clue what you're doing.

So, so you gotta post it, post it on LinkedIn.

Right.

But write this story in a way that literally describe the story.

And I want you to take that hero story and do that.

It doesn't always have to be business related.

You can try to tie it into business if you want, towards the end of the post and just as a summary thing like, hey, maybe other people have faced this in their company or things that they had to deal with or maybe in their personal life.

But people will be connected to you in a total different way that you've never seen before.

They're going to know who you are, your story, that you're going to be relatable and that is powerful.

And you're probably going to get more engagement comments and likes that you've ever gotten in your life.

You may get a couple private messages because it happens every single time we do it with our clients.

The first post is always like this crazy, like, whoa.

Because you've never done it.

Yeah.

You've never shared a story that, that shows this hero arc.

But it's.

But in business, the reason why it's important in business is that if I see that hero arc of what you've overcame, that means I'm building trust.

You want customers to know like, and trust you.

So that's building trust and credibility with somebody that maybe was on the fence and they're like, hey, if they got through that, I'm sure they're going to take really good care of me as a service or a product.

Like, there is psychology to this of.

Of growing.

That's why people that have a personal brand get inbound leads.

They get people to reach out to them.

Yes.

Because they're, They're.

They're connecting in a way that's relatable.

And it's more than just business.

You can connect to the individual and their personal story.

And so identify that hero arc.

Identify your story of who you are, and then try to start and market and promote yourself out there.

But the first step is.

Is.

Is start within.

Okay.

No, that's amazing.

One of the questions that came to my mind while you were speaking about that was how does it differ between a personal brand and, say, like, a corporate brand?

If somebody's trying to, you know, do stuff personally, is it different or does the same strategies apply if someone's trying to brand for, say, their business brand?

Awesome question.

I get this all the time.

Amazing.

I literally get this all the time.

So it's a great question.

So you want to think about this.

I'm going to try to do this in an analogy piece or something that you can relate to.

So why do you buy.

So what kind of car do you own, Kelly?

I have a Chevy Silverado.

Silverado.

Okay.

Okay.

Why did you buy the Silverado?

You know what?

I bought it because I needed a 4x4.

Because in Canada, we get wicked, wicked winters, and I need to be able to go wherever I need to go when I need to get there.

And so for me, it.

I just needed a truck.

And at the time, it was the right price.

I wasn't super picky about the truck.

It could have been a Dodge or Ford.

I wouldn't have been picky.

But honestly, I fell in love with it the moment I saw it, and that was the one I got.

But I.

For me being in business development, the length of time I've been in it, the ability to go anywhere I need to go, no matter the weather condition, is.

Is one of my specific needs.

Yeah.

And.

And if.

And who owns Chevy Chevrolet?

Oh, that's a good question.

I don't know.

This is good.

This is good, Kelly, because this is going to make my point.

So if.

Are you a fan of Tesla?

Yes, of course.

Okay.

If you were to buy a Tesla, why would you buy it?

Oh, my goodness.

Because it's awesome and they look cool.

Where did you first hear about Tesla?

Oh, guaranteed, I heard it in one of Elon Musk's talks.

So you.

You so now let me.

Let me break this down really quick.

So if you were to get a Tesla, it would have honestly been because, yeah, they're super cool.

I want one too.

It's.

It's on the list.

It's on the list for the next, probably year or two.

I'm.

I'm definitely gonna get one.

I.

I just want mine pimped out.

Yeah.

So I gotta.

I gotta get the right stuff.

So for us.

For us, the problem is that there's snow on the ground six, six to eight months.

You got to get the cyber truck.

So the.

The reason why I went through that exercise is because if you were to get a Tesla today, it would have been because you found out through Elon Musk through his personal brand.

Yes.

Yes.

Right.

So that would have already given a moment in your mind of like, hey, I heard it through a podcast.

I know this guy.

You're building rapport through the podcast.

You start to see you consume a lot of other content and then you look at the product and then you say, hey, here are all the utilities.

And it's pretty cool and I like it.

But that helps your buying decision because you know the person, right?

Yes.

You just described Chevy and you just said all the.

The.

The more utilities, the benefits, the features of the vehicle, but you have no personal attachment to Chevy.

Correct.

You have no.

You don't even know who.

Who owns it.

You don't even know.

You have no clue.

There's no.

You don't even know who sold it to you.

You have no clue who that guy was.

You have no clue who he was.

And you're not following him on social.

You have no.

You're probably not gonna go back to him if, if you needed another car.

I don't even recognize him.

If I needed another car.

This is so perfect.

This is so perfect.

So the.

To answer your question about what it like, what's the difference between the company brand and the personal brand?

It's connection.

Connection, A company with a logo.

Unless you're Adidas or Nike under armour.

But here's the thing about those companies.

The reason why their company has connection is because they use athletes.

That is a personal brand that you can connect to and you show lifestyle.

So the brand has life.

But not a lot of these companies can't promote like a personal brand can promote.

Think of it similar to Gary Vaynerchuk.

His following is extreme.

It's like 3 million more than Vayner X.

Why?

Because a lot of people don't even know what his company's calls Vayner X and VaynerMedia.

He has all these other companies.

We, they had.

They sponsored our event one time.

They, they.

He has other entities and other companies.

But why do people work with him?

Why do people go to that.

It's his personal brand.

The, the personal brand is always going to be bigger than the brand itself.

Always.

Because of connection and relatability.

People buy people.

That is, that is just the essence of the human psychology.

And so the brand, the marketing strategy is slightly different.

You can try to do some of these things with your company that the personal brand is.

You can have brand ambassadors, you could have people.

But at the end of the day, your logo can't have a conversation with an individual.

That's right.

It can't.

Not yet.

Let's give it 15 years.

Oh, shoot.

So you.

Not yet.

Not yet.

Lord, kid.

The day, the day that I get a talking Apple logo is gonna be.

I want to be like, nah, I don't trust it.

Yeah, no, no, this is too much.

It's just.

It's hard to build trust with a logo.

It is, it's hard.

It's.

It's like if you were talking to, you know, oh, my God.

What, what.

What other logo?

I mean, I keep saying these sport.

Look, if you're.

Well, even sports like the logo.

The reason why the fandom is so big is because of people.

They get attached to the pr, to the people that are on the team.

And, you know, they, they build up that fandom through there.

It start.

It's, it's with people.

You can't talk to a logo.

You just can't do it.

I got a nice, you know, FM logo.

It looks dope, dope, but, like, you can't talk to it.

You need to have something represent the logo.

And that's what people buy.

That's, that's, that's what it is.

I mean, a logo can help with branding to know that the, the product is.

No, is.

Is known, liked and trusted and has credibility as it builds a reputation.

And that's something that, you know, because literally it's like on the cow.

It's like the branding is like right there.

Bam.

You're.

You're mine.

That's.

That's it.

It.

That's where the word branding comes from.

But it's, it's, it's.

You have to have a human connection to really.

You know, I love the analogy that with the exercise we just went through, because that just goes to show you that people is the connection point.

So think about that.

Also in your business.

And if people are even in business development, I mean, like, they are the company, they are the, are the, the face of the company.

So, you know, they're gonna, they're buying you, to be honest.

They're, they may like the service, they may need it.

You may fill a void or complete a challenge for them, but they're buying you also when they're making that buying decision.

Yeah, no, absolutely.

Dude, this has been, this has been absolutely amazing.

And I want to spend a little bit of time about Forever Media.

Talk to me.

What are.

And it was funny because I was reading your book and dude, I loved it because you were talking about when you were launching your company.

You're like, like, there was like 15 things I was great at.

And I was like, dude, that was me too.

I was like, I, it was so funny.

And I, I've talked to so many entrepreneurs and I would say when most of us launch our companies, we don't know what the hell is going to be successful.

We just, we can do everything right?

And Totally, totally was like, that was so.

Me too.

Like, when I launched Capital Business Development, I'm like, I can do a ton of things.

Let's talk, do anything, whatever you need.

You need a sandwich?

Pull up.

Yeah, I absolutely love that I connected with that so much.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was funny because for the longest time, our website was like, like a thousand things, right?

And it was only like, literally this last year, I'm like, okay, our website has not represented us, right, for over a year.

It's time to do something with it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's.

Less is more.

Less is more.

But yeah, I told, I mean, mean, look, I didn't know what I was, I didn't know, I didn't know what the game plan was because, like, I just, I just started it, man.

I, I, I just, I literally, I got laid off from my, from the job and I had, I just started it.

You know, I was like, anything I'm kind of good at is what I'm, is what I'm gonna, you know, present here.

And I just wanted to see what would, what's really stuck with people.

And the video, the videography, that's actually what, what actually launched the business where people, like really dove into that and I started to do more and more of that.

That now it's totally evolved today where we're doing personal branding for entrepreneurs and executives.

And the, the main thing with, with Forever Media is that the reason why we're different is that we literally live what we teach and what we help people with, we literally live it.

Just last week I had, we did about 2 million views on Instagram.

We're, we're testing, we're trying different things with reels and like the things we're teaching our clients of how to do, we're doing it ourselves.

With Forever Media, I've lived the experience and then everybody on my team, obviously we're training them to learn and so they have that knowledge and expertise as well.

And so the, and we also, we, we put it into live applications so we actually do experiences as well.

So we've done large conferences, we've done meetups, we've done workshops all across the country where I have a, actually one that's, this will be posted afterwards.

So what we're doing in New York, October 10th through the 12th, where everybody's gonna be featured on a billboard, we're having podcasters come out to Times Square to record content with all the attendees and people that will be there.

We're workshopping everybody's business.

We, we actually apply what we teach and we have applications that we help people through that.

And that's what makes us really unique.

And we're coming from a different position where some people may know a little bit about something about personal branding.

We literally are living it.

And we know exactly the formula through our system to get you to the next level, to get you the results, to grow your revenue or to grow your career.

Like it's, it's guaranteed because like we've done it for others, we've done it for ourselves and we continue to do it.

So we're not stale and we don't know what's going on, trending with the trends of the market.

Like we know what's happening and we're always testing and that's like you said, we're always trying.

Like you, like your podcast, you're always learning.

Like every single, every single day you're learning and you're adapting and you're applying it.

And that's what we do.

And so everybody and we, we guarantee success.

Like everybody we work with, if you're a one on one client, like we're going to help you and we're going to find a way to get you to where you're trying to go.

Well, yeah, dude.

And like your timing on this is perfect.

Like I, I can't see a better time yet other than this year.

And beyond that, like personal branding that the people of the mindset's there, they're ready.

Like there are people listening to this right now who are like, you know what?

Absolutely.

I want to do this, but I could use some help and Good thing they got you today.

Yeah, yeah, no, there is no yeah.

And I want, I just want to mention too, if, if that is you, if you're a person that, that has an established business or you're a C suite executive that is in transition in their, in their mind of like, hey, I need to do something.

I need to get to that next level.

Maybe like, Kelly, you have a podcast that's, that's popping that you've had for a while, and you're like, I need to get it to the next level.

Maybe you do a little bit of speaking, but you want to figure out how to get to the next level.

Maybe your online presence is like, hey, I'm.

I got about 5,000 followers.

But, but how do I get to that next level?

How do I push and really grow on LinkedIn or grow on Instagram?

And maybe you're a person that says, hey, I have done a lot in my career, but I'm kind of scatterbrained and I don't know how to package all this stuff up to be.

To articulate my message, my story, and what makes me unique, then those, those are the type people that we love to work with, the people that we know.

We can get people to that next level and get them clarity into what they're doing.

So that way they get results and they get, you know, paid speaking gigs.

They get their podcast to new heights and get it sponsored like yours, Kelly, like where, you know, you get that, that sponsored and you actually grow your credibility, you grow your thought leadership in your organization so we can get you those results.

And we have resources and partners and people that we deploy on that to be able to make sure that the results happen.

Dude, that's amazing.

And I guarantee you there's people listening right now who are 100% on board.

What is the best way for them to get a hold of you?

Yeah, the, the best way is honestly, LinkedIn, similar to how me and Kelly connected is.

Is the best way of, of how to do it.

You know, shoot.

Shoot me a message.

Also, you can check out forevermedia.com if you subscribe to our newsletter.

We'll be able to shoot you a lot of information on personal branding.

Let's let have you start to discover, and we also have our podcast as well, that you can be able to start diving into people's stories, other people's journeys of personal branding as well.

And we also do Have a free community as well that you can also join on Discord.

You know, feel free to pop in, you know, see what's going on, see what other people are, that's working for them and be able to just talk with, with other people that are building their personal brand because that's kind of where it starts.

But you have to take a step, step.

So that's, that's, that's what I always say.

You have to take a step to change your circle.

Yeah, no, absolutely, dude.

This has been amazing and obviously I will have all the links.

So if you're hearing this show, you'll see the social posts when this thing goes live and it'll have all of the links for you to find Jamar and Forever Media.

It's, it's, it's amazing.

He's doing lots and I would say anybody listening to this, change your circle, change your life.

It's an amazing book.

I don't think it was much more than 20 bucks on Amazon.

Highly, highly recommend.

Pick it up.

It's got a tidbit of something in there for everybody and specifically for personal branding.

And Jamar's story is amazing and it's in the book.

So highly recommend.

Dude.

It's well done.

Appreciate it, man.

Thank you for having me.

I really.

This was awesome.

Like one of the, one of the best interviews.

I feel like, just flow wise, like, it was really, really good, man.

Great job.

I love the platform, love what you're doing.

I, I knew that our problem was not going to be putting out a great show.

It was going to be how the heck do we fit three hours to five hours of conversation in an hour and a half.

Right?

Right.

I knew for a fact, dude, like the moment we had our first talk or the moment we had our first kind of meeting, I was like, this is going to be an amazing show, but how the heck do I condense this into something that's not going to be like four hours long.

For that?

We're gonna have to do a whole workshop, man, if it's gonna be four hours.

So.

But yeah, yeah, conversation was easy, man.

Oh, thanks, dude.

I'm sure at this point we'll, we'll have you back for another conversation, I'm sure.

On it.

Until next time, everyone, this has been episode 220 business development podcast, and we will catch you on the flip side.

This has been the business development podcast with Kelly Kennedy.

Kelly has 15 years in sales and business development experience within the Alberta oil and gas industry and founded his own business development firm in 2020.

His passion and his specialization is in customer relationship generation and business.

The show is brought to you by Capital Business Development, your business development specialists.

For more, we invite you to the website at www.capitalbd.ca.

see you next time on the Business Development podcast.