Sarah Turner, welcome back to the QVC podcast.

It's a pleasure to see you again. I'm excited to

dive into neuroscience with you.

Thank you. It's always a pleasure to chat to you

and be on your show.

Super fun. So for those of us who just joined us,

we are doing this live with an, with an audience.

Members of the QVC Pro community are here

listening to my interview with Sarah and then

they will all be invited to do a Q and A. So this

is a slightly different format than usual. So,

Sarah, let's start off. You've been on the

podcast before and we did kind of a deep dive

into your background. So I really recommend

people go listen to that episode. It was really

good, but I would like to go over it again just a

little bit. Your background in neuroscience, your

training in red light therapy, your deep dive

into Parkinson's research, how did it all happen?

And how did you end up in this weird area of

health instead of working for a pharmaceutical

company?

Well, funny enough, I did start out at the

pharmaceutical company. So my, my background is I

was a scientific researcher at pharmaceutical

companies for, for the first 10 years of my

career. And I spent six years with

GlaxoSmithKline, one of the biggest, well,

biggest worldwide, but certainly the biggest in

the uk. And I was looking at researching not

actually drugs, but more drug delivery devices.

So I was involved in asthma delivery and more

specifically, I was on a task force. You know, if

there's issues that came up, a task force was

sent in to resolve the issue quickly. And one of

the main issues that they were looking at at some

point was why do these asthma. The new. They had

new asthma inhaler devices. Why were they not

working as they were expected? Because they knew

the drug was good, but for some reason, when they

put it out in these, they were like a spherical

plastic inhaler, a bit of a change from their

usual ones. And what we found very rapidly was

it's because the plastic causes a static charge.

And so if the, if the artificial lung, because

that's what we were testing, we don't test in

humans in these labs, you know, everything's

tested, you know, in a kind of a simulation. But

if that wasn't grounded because these plastic

devices actually made a static charge, then you

got a different deposition of the drug in the

lung. And so I did a lot of experiments where I

was grounded, where I was not grounded, where I

wore like rubber welly boots, where I wore like

special. An outfit that had silver in it. So that

we knew I was grounded. I attached myself to,

like the bed. Oh, it's the fairies. That's like a

fairy chime. But what I found was it makes a big

difference whether actually you're grounded on

not whether where the drug will deposit in the

lung. And to me, this was kind of a bit of a

revelation because it was nothing to do with

actually the inhaler or the drug delivery. It was

purely the state of where you're delivering that

drug. Right. In that case, it was into the. We

call them stacks, into the kind of simulation of

a lung. But in reality, the implication is that

if the person isn't grounded or hasn't touched

the ground, that the drug is going to. The drug

is to deposit in a different place in the body.

And so really the solution for the problem is

just to make sure everybody is grounded before

they start taking these drugs, because

potentially you would need less drugs or maybe

even no drug at all if that was kind of the

problem with the lung function in the first

place. So that is really fascinating why I left.

One of many reasons. But I think that was

probably like the straw that broke the camel's

back from why I left the pharmaceuticals. Because

really, the solution is not necessarily

necessarily then in the pharmaceutical. It's

really in the environment of the person. And

that's something that is so easy to modify. You

know, something as simple as standing out on the

ground for 10 minutes could have sold that

solution of this. This strange drug deposition in

the lung.

Isn't that incredible? And it's so interesting to

me how, you know, living as we all exist in the

quantum field, you never know what, where. What

thread is going to lead us to that next insight.

So you were trying to figure out why the drug

delivery system didn't work, and you ended up

uncovering the science of grounding and how

important it is to humans, which is a completely

different paradigm than what the pharmaceutical

company was operating in.

It's a completely different paradigm. And

actually, with credit to Glaxo, they did actually

start to initiate some very interesting studies

into all kinds of like bipolar drug deposition in

the lung, different kinds of plastics, different

kinds of effects. I mean, ultimately they're just

looking for a plastic that doesn't cause the

effects. You know, they're not ultimately looking

for solutions for people to dissipate the effect

in themselves. You know, which is. Which is

really what is available to everybody. I mean,

they are still a business. But it was a very

interesting insight for me about how charge in

the body specifically can have a very dramatic

effect. And you know, we were talking about

inhaled products, but you can apply that to

anything that's inhaled. You know, we're inhaling

fine particles and things in our environments all

the time. You know, whether that's for the good

or for the bad. The way that our bodies respond

to our environment very much depends on the

charge in our bodies. So, you know, in order to

maximize the efficacy of all the systems in the

body, something very simple like grounding and

kind of. We know this now. There's been a lot of

books written about earthing and grounding, but

this is a very real demonstration of that. So,

yes, that was very interesting for me. And then I

left the pharmaceutical industry and I actually

pursued nutritional medicine because for me, that

was the next step. It's like, okay, how can we

best prepare the body? We can do grounding, but

maybe we can also change ourselves from the

inside with nutrition. But actually, that didn't

go far enough because for a lot of times, you

know, your mindset is. Your mind state is so

intrinsically linked that you can change your

nutrition and not have an effect. So I went on to

study clinical neuroscience, and that was really

where I started to learn more about the brain and

brain function and then start to look at ways to

modify brain function. You know, my focus changed

from that point. I moved to the States. I got

involved in the whole biohacking movement. I did

Jack Cruz Cruise. I studied various people. I

went and interviewed May Wan Ho. So. So that was

the point really, I suppose, about 15 years ago

when I moved to the States, that I got mostly

involved in looking very seriously at the brain

and brain function and ways that we could modify

that with an alternative medicine slant.

Right. And what were some of the insights that

you had that were different from traditional

neuroscience?

Yes, well, of course, I think probably your group

probably knows this very well, but most

traditional courses is in biology and

neuroscience are not teaching biophysics, you

know, so. So at this point, I had three science

degrees because I had already got a biology

science degree. I went and got my nutritional

medicine degree, and then I had a clinical

neuroscience master's degree. At no point did

anybody ever mention how biology interacts with

light, how potentially water changes its

structure when you have an interaction with

light. Nobody was really talking a lot, even

about circadian biology. So we was. I was still

much taught the kind of lock and key, kind of

more biochemical view of the brain, even with all

of that education. So it wasn't really. Until I

really started getting into the work of, like I

say, Dr. May Wan Ho, Dr. Jack Cruz, you know, all

of the people who went then and all of the people

who went before, because obviously there was lots

of people talking about light, for example, a

long time before then. But they were, they were

the ones who really got me to understand it in a

scientific way. So yes, it was, it's a total

turnaround from any of my academic training. I

can just say from my academic training. At least

now I have the background to understand how the

brain works, that I can apply these new

learnings. Because really they were all new

learnings. All of the quantum biology piece was

new learnings for sure. Right.

And I'm, I'm so interested in that because I

think it's actually a really, really good

combination to have a very strong foundation in

the traditional model. So that way when you layer

on the biophysics piece, the quantum piece, you

can fill in the missing pieces, of which there

are many. But you can also speak to people who

are still living and working out of the old

paradigm and be a bridge. The flip side of that

is that, and this goes for so many people in this

community, I don't want to say out on your own,

right, but you're charting a new path. Like we're

all sort of contributing to the creation of an

alternative to what is currently the mainstream

structure. So what did that look like for you?

How did you find your way? How did you find your

people? How did you support yourself?

Well, actually when I came to the States, I came

with a company. I was looking at some very way

out there science focusing on consciousness

interface devices.

Love it. What's that about?

Very, very interesting because there was some

research that was carried out at Stanford

actually where they were looking at the ability

to influence seemingly random events with the

power of the mind. So you know, the experiments,

the original experiments they called the pet. It

was actually Princeton, not Stanford. The

original experiments were called the PEAR studies

where they were using like a, a wall with

different color ping pong balls and looking to

see whether even though it should be a random

distribution, could you maybe focus on one color

and therefore somehow your own focused intention

was influencing the result. And other people have

done interesting experiments. William Tiller also

did some interesting experiments looking at

whether you could potentially affect the ph of a

liquid. All kinds of very interesting things. Can

you influence, you know, I know that there are

now different devices which have different random

colors. Can you predict the next color that comes

from a. In effect, it's like a random event

generator, Random event generator or pseudo

random event generator that's inside Some kind of

technology that mainly is what people use

nowadays rather than these kind of big like ping

pong balls on a wall. But it's the same concept

and it was a very interesting time because there

were, there are a lot of people looking at this.

It seems quite wacky and woo woo. But actually

when you meet the people who are doing the

research, they are, they're not at all. They're

actually very serious scientifically minded

people. It's just, you know, our measuring

mechanisms, you know, we, we don't have a good

way for kind of measuring what that could be. And

I think it comes down to either the science that

we're using to measure is wrong, which is the,

you know, that could be the case, or you know,

we're looking at a different kind of effect, you

know, maybe some kind of strange effect where,

you know, there's something going on with the

observation. But it's, it was a difficult place

to be for a long time because like you say,

there's so much resistance. And so, you know,

you're kind of labeled as fringe at best and kind

of wacky woo woo at worst. So you kind of have to

take that on the chin. And actually as I started

to move through that process and really kind of

get an understanding of it, I got introduced to

the concept of structured water by interviewing

Professor Jerry Pollock, who of course wrote the

book Fourth Phase Water. And this is something

that I could really get into because although

it's kind of still on the fringe if you think

about people talking about ordered water,

particularly in the brain, but it is something

where you can actually measure the effect. And

photobiomodulation has long history of research

and it works, you know, and it was through doing

that and looking at structured water and then

applying it to the brain, I got involved on some

like, as you mentioned before, Parkinson's

trials, I could see a real tangible, measurable

effect. So I made the jump to that because

although I still love that kind of woo woo world,

it's a difficult place to kind of base yourself

permanently because we, perhaps we're not using

the right science to record those observations.

But photobiomodulation straddles both worlds

because we can go into the whole esoteric side of

light science, which is fascinating, but we can

also get very real, tangible clinical effects

that we can use right now to kind of provide

evidence and to make this mainstream. So really

that's why I'm kind of in my happy spot right now

in between this kind of really exciting esoteric

and fringe world of Light therapy, but also in a

very firm, hard, scientific world of

photobiomodulation, where we can actually show

clinical data.

I love this so much because, yes, I. And I get

that question a lot. Or that, you know, that

comes up a lot. And people like, oh, is this just

like some biohacking thing? I don't know, I'm

just gonna, like, you know, how many minutes in

front of the red light for this or that or

whatever.

Like.

Or is this more of a spiritual, you know, open

our consciousness to a new level and it's like,

well, it's both, you know, what. What door are

you coming in? So I love that, that you're

bridging that and, sorry, there's someone at my

door. And I do see light as the starting point to

go in any direction that you want to go. Light

incorporated with the structured water. So you

move. So you started in pharmaceuticals, then you

moved into consciousness, and now you're in

photobiomodulation. So, yes, this crowd is

obviously very on the call here today, is

obviously very familiar with photobiomodulation.

But for those who are tuning into this podcast,

who maybe have heard of red light therapy, they

know a little bit about it. Could you give your

description of what it is and why it's so

important?

Yeah, I mean, we can kind of go very granular or

we can go very surface level with

photobiomodulation. I mean, it is just a long

fancy word for light therapy, right? Photo being

light bio, you know, modifying something,

modifying biology with light really is. Is the

definition. And it's a new definition because

previous, a lot of the devices that we use were

laser, so they had to change the definition from

cold level laser therapy or low level laser

therapy to something more inclusive because

people now use different light sources. So

photobiomodulation was the term for better or for

worse. It's a bit of a mouthful, but to me, it's

just the concept of using light to change our

biology. And very simplistically, the sun is our

major power source. And it's something that for

literally thousands and thousands of years, it's

something that biology has evolved alongside the

sun. And that's really why biology is here at

all, is because of the sun. So we respond in a

myriad of ways to the different wavelengths of

light from the sun. And so red light therapy is

taking a portion of the sun's wavelengths of

light, and it's the portion that's usually found

at sunrise and sunset because of the angle of the

sun at the sky at that Point we get this longer

wave light because if we think about light as a,

as a spectrum going from shortwave to long wave,

red light is at the longer wave of the visible

range and a little bit further on. So we're

talking about longer wave visible light and

slightly longer than that. And this is like I

say, sunrise and sunset. This light will

penetrate our bodies because actually our bodies

are very transparent to near infrared light. And

then we have a whole cascade of biological

effects. Now probably we're just at the start of,

of working out exactly how this works with our

biology. Because if we discussed before, this is

a new science, people, you know, have not really

published a lot on the mechanisms of light

therapy because I think, you know, we, we haven't

historically applied the physics angle to

biology, but we do know it's received by the

mitochondria, which is where our body makes

energy. We do know that it increases ATP. We do

know that it affects reactive oxygen species. We

know there's a transient release of nitric oxide.

So those small things mean that we have energy

and blood flow. And for a lot of people, you

know, that's, that may be enough. I think

probably what's going on is far more complex and

intricate than that. You know, because we have

synaptogenesis, we have neurogenesis. There are

lots of different light receivers, not just the

mitochondria. I mean, I came into it via water.

So, you know, my. One of the things I've always

got running is how are we actually changing the

structure of water in our bodies? And what are

those implications? Huge and many. But we have

other, you know, anything with an aromatic ring

is going to oscillate to a certain extent to

certain wavelengths of light, and specifically

red light too. So our bodies are really

oscillating, vibrating with these different

wavelengths of light. We live indoor lifestyles

now. You know, there's not many people who are

outside all day and all night kind of getting

those wavelengths of light. So we're very

deficient, we're very deficient as a species in

long wave red light. If you start to put those

back, it's like any deficiency. As soon as you

start to put those, those wavelengths back, the

body starts to respond and sometimes in, in, you

know, very amazing ways, because your body's been

deficient in some, something you give it back,

the body starts working. So I think from a very

simplistic point of view, it's as simple as that.

I see it almost like a vitamin deficiency or any

other deficiency. As soon as you put that Back,

the body will then start working because, you

know, you now have the tools that the body needs

to function.

Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I think it's

such a good way to present it and to help people

to think about it. When I sort of, I'm out in the

world and, you know, this winter I've talked to

so many people who are like, oh, I had the flu

and it's been three weeks and I still don't feel

better. And I'm like, you should really go get an

infrared sauna. Right. There's a little place

near, near where I live where you can just pay

like $30 for half an hour and sit in there. And

they're like, what? And it's because, like, we

lack, we lack the language, we lack the, the

paradigm to think about light and so to talk

about it in. I'm like, it's like food, you know,

the difference between processed food and, and

real food. Same goes for light. But, you know,

it's the way our lives are structured. It's so

hard for many of us to get what we need from the

sun because we're just not outside enough. So,

so, and so now I want to get into the, into the

brain a little bit because there's a lot of,

there are a lot of red light therapy devices on

the market, you know, a lot of quality products

that will make a difference in your life, but

most of them are not specific to the brain. And

with your background in neuroscience and then the

new paradigm you've decided to focus on, on the

brain. So tell us from a, from a biophysics point

of view, from the quantum biologic perspective,

how you see the brain working and why it needs

red light.

Yeah, I think we, we, we have kind of lost sight

of ourselves a little bit as light beings, you

know, of, of really running online as a major

energy source. Again, it's something alien. It's

not something that we've been made aware of. And

maybe it's kind of even less obvious to us now

that we do lead these indoor lives. And maybe

we're not so conscious of, you know, the cycles

of light, the cycles of the sun. You know, a lot

of that has been taken away from us. You know, we

don't do our own farming. We, you know, we're

really very much kind of removed from this

understanding of, of how we respond to light. And

from a point of view of how the brain is working,

let's say the brain is covered in potential light

receivers. So the mitochondria, the water in our

brains, the flavins in our brains, the opsins in

our brains. So we're covered in light receivers.

And so from my point of view, it's how can we

optimize getting the this kind of beneficial

light onto the brain in a way that's going to

have a therapeutic effect? So from my research,

you know, I think we, we know that we get light

onto the brain. We do know that the skull is a

barrier because, you know, you've got quite a lot

of bone. You know, the brain is contained in the

skull. And although it's not dark in there, you

know, we are receiving and emitting light from

our brains. We do have to make sure that the

light goes in. And with light, the angle is very

important because if you have something that's

kind of square to you and you know the angle is

not right, the light is very bouncy. Light is

just going to bounce off different surfaces. So,

you know, if you see light coming off of, if you

see yourself shining up red when you're doing the

light therapy, a lot of that is light that's

coming off you. It's not actually going in. So in

order for light to actually get onto the surface

of the brain, we know that we have to have

something that fits flush to the head and is

contoured in the right way, that the angle is

just right. So there are a lot of light therapy

devices for the brain, and all of them are either

like a helmet or something that actually pushes

up close to the head. And the reason for that is

you really do have to get the right angle with

regards to the wavelength. You also need to have

near infrared, because red light is surface

level. So red light is going to get kind of get

the blood and it's going to get the skin and it's

going to do good work. But in order to get onto

the surface of the brain, you need near infrared.

So that's the longer wave I was talking about. So

from my point of view, I'm interested in

structured water. Water absorbs above 900

nanometers, so that that's relatively a longer

wavelength of light than most devices. Most

devices don't want the light to be absorbed by

the water. They want it on the mitochondria. But

for my device, I wanted to have these longer

wavelengths too, because I want to target water.

So you need to have a device that is at least 850

nanometers. Mine also does 940 and 1070 because

I'm targeting all kinds of different light

receivers in the brain. But the main thing is to

have something that's flush and then the other

thing is hair. We all have different kinds of

hair. And although I'm not saying that hair is

going to be directly a barrier, it will change

the absorption. You know, the darker your hair,

the more light it will absorb. The thicker your

hair, the more it will kind of reflect and bounce

the light. So from my point of view, I wanted to

give a consistent dose because I'm making a home

use device, you know, for many people to use. So

in order for me to be sure that I'm giving

everyone the same dose, my device just goes

through the front part of the forehead and also

you're there on the frontal cortex. You know,

this is a very important part of the brain. It's

decision making. And a lot of neural projections

end here in, in the prefrontal cortex. So if

we're thinking about how lights working in a

brain, and again, this is where we have to go a

little bit, we have to be a little imaginative

because we really don't have a lot of data on why

something like Parkinson's. It's really deep in

the brain, right. And you're shining light onto

the surface. Why is that responding so well?

Maybe it's because you have a global effect of

water. Maybe neurons are acting of waves guides,

maybe there's effective microtubules. Something

is going on. But if it, but whatever it is, it

does seem that this part of the brain responds

very well, even if you've got an issue with

something that's deeper in the brain. So from my

point of view, this is a great target, the

prefrontal cortex. There's no hair, there's no

barrier. You can actually get a reasonable amount

of light onto the surface of the brain. It's

still not easy. You're still getting a fraction

of the light. And that's why I also use a body

panel, because, because the effect of light is

systemic. So if you can shine light into another

part of the body, you're also going to have an

effect on the brain. You know, if you're shining

light into, onto the blood and the mitochondria,

picking it up, you know, that's still going to

end up in your brain. We're a huge interconnected

system, you know, you can't. So treat your body

holistically was also another one of my, another

one of my reasonings for doing a dual, a dual

system, a dual device system where you could

target different parts of the body and still have

a brain effect.

Right? Because to use Mei1ho's words. If we're

liquid crystal, then yes, everything is traveling

at the speed of light or faster all through our

body. You have the gut, which is communicating

with the brain. So light on the prefrontal cortex

and light on the gut. I wanted to talk a little

bit about these neurodegenerative diseases. So

Parkinson's. I feel like when I think about the

generation above me, my parents generation, the

parents of my friends, cancer and Parkinson's,

it's like I don't. It seems to me that almost

every family, someone has one of those two. So

talk to me about what Parkinson's is. I know that

you were involved in some studies using red light

therapy on people with Parkinson's and the big

lab using big lab machines. So you've now

developed a home use device. What is going on?

How is Parkinson's and early onset Alzheimer's

related to light? I know there's a lot of

research out showing that disrupted circadian

rhythms, having light in the bedroom while you're

sleeping has been linked to these. I think more

than linked. I think there's probably a causal

mechanism that's been shown by now, but so much

of the lead up to these diseases has been linked

to light. What is going on and how does adding in

photobiomodulation help to work with these

diseases?

Parkinson's People may know that Parkinson's is a

degeneration of the cistantia nigra. It's neurons

in a certain part of the brain, fairly deep in

the brain, and you have degeneration of the

neurons there. And even the word substantia

nigra. It's interesting because it implies black,

doesn't it? Nigra, you know, it's a word for

black. And we know that if there's a dark matter

in the body that we're probably thinking about

melanin and where, you know, that's why you have

these different. You have different kinds of

molecules that are doing different things in the

brain. It's very interesting that Parkinson's is.

Seems to be this disease which is caused by this

particular dark neurons being degenerated. And we

kind of know from a quantum biology point of view

how important things like melanins are from a

conduction point of view, from an electrically

conductive view in the brain. Now, that's

obviously not the orthodox scientific take on it,

but if you kind of go back to thinking about the

body as being electric and it's just really about

redox potential and how electrons are moving in

our brain and how light is penetrating the brain.

I think it puts a very different slant on

Parkinson's and why that would respond so quickly

to light therapy. You know, you have a lack of

this pigment in the brain which is making the

brain more conductive. And then you start to

shine light therapy on which is in essence kind

of charging up the brain in a very real way, you

know, in a like adding electrons to the brain and

then you start to see these beneficial effects.

But, you know, from an orthodox point of view,

there is a degeneration of these neurons cause

unknown in orthodox sites. But, you know, of

course we live, we're leading lifestyles where

you have got things which are going to reduce

your redox. You know, people aren't grounding

outside, people are watching blue screens, we're

surrounded by different WI fi. There's a lot of

things happening in our environment which could

potentially lower the charge or the redox

potential we have in our body, which may in turn

lead to degenerative diseases. And you know,

there are various genes and things which are

linked to having certain weaknesses in certain

body systems. So, you know that Alzheimer's,

Parkinson's, all these neurodegeneration are also

linked to certain genetic predispositions. So I

think really it's just a combination of genetic

and potentially epigenetic predispositions

combined with lifestyle that puts you in a

position where you are not able for whatever

reason to charge your body and your brain. So

that's why, you know, if you start to think of

the body more from our point, you know, very

simple battery point of view, it's just a

depleted battery is the issue. And what you're

doing with light is you're just charging the

battery. I mean, I think, I think it really is as

simple as that. Obviously, if you really start to

look at the biochemistry, lots of interesting

things are going on. And, and Parkinson's is an

interesting one because it's gut health too. You

know, I think it's mainly recognized now that

Parkinson's starts in the gut because we have a

lot of nervous tissue in the gut. We have the

microbiome that lives in the gut. We have the

vagus connection there. You know, again, this is

hugely important from a point of view of that

systemic effect of what's going on. You know, if

you have leaky gut and you have inflammation

caused by metabolites going into your blood, then

you have neuroinflammation too. You know,

everything is systemic. You know, nothing is

contained in its own compartment. So this, all

kinds of things cause this Leaky gut again, maybe

bad food, maybe pesticides, maybe pollution, bad

habits, bad relationships. You know, if you're

constantly stressed, you know, you're potentially

changing the chemicals in your gut and causing

leaky gut. So everything is connected, I think,

you know, very simple. Eat well, sleep well, have

good relationships. You know, that's the kind of

thing we need to do. If we've got ourselves in a

position where we've already got the genetic

predisposition combined with a poor environment,

that's really what causes any kind of, not only

neurodegeneration, but probably any kind of

chronic disease. How it manifests is probably

just a bit of a mixture of, you know, the cards

you were dealt with initially.

Right. So it's interesting you say that. I was

involved in an exchange on Twitter recently and

someone was saying, we need to stop calling it

mental health and physical health. And someone

was like, what should we call it? And the guy was

like, health? How about just health? It's

everything. So I'm going to open it up to

questions from. We have a lot of curious, curious

cats on the call today. Who has a question for

Sarah? This is being recorded, so raise your hand

or just unmute yourself and jump right in. As I

was saying, these are our practitioner. This is

our practitioner community. Who's on here today?

Who wants to go first? Lynn. Lynn, just unmute

yourself and ask your question. You can't. Okay,

let me. Okay, so this is from Lynn. Lynn wants to

know about red light protocols specifically for

Parkinson's.

Yes. So at the moment, I do have a small cohort

of young onset Parkinson's, actually. And that's

just because it's just so happened that that's

the community of people that have come for some,

you know how it is, somebody gets a result from

an illness and then they recommend to friends and

then you have a little community. And what

they're finding mainly is the. I have a program

in my headband that also oscillates at 40 hertz,

because we know that as well as shining light

onto the brain to have an effect, you can also

pulse that light at certain frequencies. The

brain is pulsing at different frequencies all the

time in hugely complex ways. But the hertz

frequency, or number of times of oscillations a

second is, is the one that we usually measure

when we're doing something like QEEG, which is an

electroencephalogram. And 40 times a second seems

to be a sweet spot for kind of enabling the brain

to entrain to a frequency where you're more alert

and Attentive. So the protocol that we currently

have for managing Parkinson's symptoms, and I

want to be very clear that I'm not talking about

curing, preventing, treating or diagnosing

disease. I'm talking about symptom management. A

40 Hz pulsing frequency with light on a headband.

Also utilizing a body pad seems to be having the

best result. And it's just 10 minutes a day on my

device, which is about 50 milliwatts if you're

using a different product, maybe just kind of

titrate up or down depending on the power. But I

would say with that, it's fairly low power.

Actually, it's a fairly low power device. Oh, and

Lynn's also asking, what do I think about

Vielight? I think they're awesome. I think

they're a brilliant company that's doing some

great results, great research. Should I say Dr.

Lou Lim? I've seen him talk many times and he's

always at the frontier of things. So, yeah, I

think it's a good product.

And what's the difference? Violated. That's the

one that goes up your nose, or am I thinking of

something else?

V. Light violet. They have. Yes. They have one

that goes up the nose and then they have. It's

kind of like different little pods they have. And

they're specifically targeting the default mode

network. So theirs goes on the default mode

network here, which is a bit awkward if you've

got hair. But I think they must have worked a way

to kind of push it in there. And then they have

an intranasal. And their idea is you're getting

light onto the kind of the olfactory bulb at the

back. But they have, they, I think their devices,

they sell different ones. So they have an alpha

and a gamma. So one is doing pulsing it 10 times

a second, one's pulsing at 40, but I don't think

it's in the same device. Unless I'm wrong, they

might have come out with a combination device.

But again, it's their kind of way of adjusting of

kind of targeting systemic is that they use the

nose, I use the gut because I'm interested very

much in gut health. And I think if you can solve

your gut health, a lot of the times the brain

issues go away on their own. So I'm very much

into using the gut, they use the nose, they use

intranasal.

Fantastic. And Michelle has a question before we

hear from Michelle. So you talked about doing

case studies and collecting your research. You

talked about some of the other companies that are

doing the same thing. Is this body of research,

who's going to look at it? Do you foresee a

future where in the United States perhaps the FDA

will recognize these devices? Like what is,

what's the ideal pathway with this research?

So at the moment we're still in a paradigm where

in order to get medical device approval you have

to go through the fda. I have to say I think that

is crumbling. That kind of institution is

crumbling, especially with the kind of the new

political environment that you have here in the

States. It seems things are changing, however, at

the moment. To get a medical device approval,

yes, you need to go through the FDA and some

companies are getting, like Veet talked about,

Vielight. That's one example. They're looking to

get a medical device approval for long Covid and

I think they've already submitted the data for

that. So if they get that, then that's going to

be great because it means that then is then a

recognized disease state that light therapy is

used for and then that hopefully opens the doors

for everybody else who wants to, to get a medical

device approval. I know there are other companies

looking at autistic spectrum disorder. I have

some colleagues that are working on mild

cognitive. So that is kind of the ultimate goal.

I'm at the stage where I'm collecting data on

young onset Parkinson's and motor neurons

disease, which you call ALS here in the States.

And I am just doing documented case studies under

the guided supervision of Professor Paul Chazot

at Durham. But I'm a long way off from being able

to submit that for medical device approval. But

at the moment, I think there's enough market and

a kind of option for people to be in the wellness

market still, you know, we can, still, we can't

talk about curing Parkinson's, but we can talk

about helping people manage their symptoms and

maybe going from a baseline of where they're at

to better. And I think for now, maybe that is a

place where we need to be. Because like I say, I

think things are changing and people are starting

to recognize more alternative ways of looking at

science and alternative ways of validating these

technologies. I already know, you know, people

are starting to look at different research groups

based in the Bahamas or maybe in Europe, where

we're kind of having the same level of scrutiny

on the data, but maybe not so much the

bureaucracy, red tape and outside interests that

influence some of these big bodies like the fda.

Yes, I agree. I think we're heading into a new

era. I'm so excited to see what happens. And yes,

that would be Ideal, keep the rigor, lose the

bureaucracy. That should be our mantra. All

right, Michelle, did you want to unmute yourself

and ask a question? Yeah, sure, I've got a couple

of questions.

The first one was just, I'm just curious on sort

of what measurements and.

Outcomes you're looking at other than symptoms.

Are you using QEG or any other.

Yeah, methodologies, just to see the effect of

your, of your red light. So I have a very small

amount of people where I'm doing QEG because it's

quite expensive and really I'm only doing that

where I've got access to the university. So I

have a few, I have a couple of case studies going

on at Durham where I have access to qeg. Some of

the people that I'm working with because I've

been in biohacking have things like aura rings.

And although, you know, it's still not recognized

as proper clinical data, it is valid data to look

at taking someone from where they're at to like

increased heart rate variability or deep sleep

scores or things like that. So I do use metrics,

not just aura, anything. I have a platform that

allows me to bring in anything anyone's got,

whether that's Apple, Garmin, Fitbit, Whoop,

whatever, whatever they're using. So I use those

kinds of metrics. I also use very basic

questionnaires because a lot of the people who

are at the moment buying my product are people

maybe a slightly older demographic who are quite

happy with self assessment questionnaires. So I

have one called my MOP Measure Yourself Outcome

Questionnaire. And that is very simple. It's just

what is your main symptom? On a scale of 1 to 6,

what does it prevent you doing? On a scale of 1

to 6, what is your general wellness? And then you

just repeat that every month. And I find that

hugely helpful for a lot of people because once

when you start getting ill, start getting better,

if you've been ill, you don't want to remember

being ill. So for a lot of people it's good to

say, okay, well, you know, when you first came,

you said that your brain fog was six maximum.

You're now saying it's one. Oh yeah, I forgot. I

used to be like that, you know. So for me, when

I'm just starting out, I'm not doing. This is not

clinical data that's going to be accepted by the

fda. But in order to kind of get something like

a. My mock form is a tool, you know, it is a

registered tool. I could use it if I wanted. To,

to publish the data. So I'm not using anything

that's wildly subjective, but at the same time

I'm just being. I'm very simple. I'm trying to

make things as easy as possible for people.

Yeah, that's great.

Thank you. The other question I had was whether

you had any experience combining your devices

with methylene blue? Because I've seen some

research around that with neurodegeneration.

Yeah, I, I do. I have done a lot of self studies

with methylene blue and I have a couple of. Well,

I have a guy in my group with motor neurons

disease who is, is very keen to kind of try out

these protocols with me. So he's been doing a

methylene blue protocol alongside the light

therapy and we're tracking his progress and he

thinks that he is getting an increased result.

I'm always, I'm a little bit hesitant just

because, you know, methylene blue has been used

historically as an anti, parasitic and an

antimicrobial. And I really, really have not been

able to get to the bottom of what is the exact

effect on chronic methylene blue use and the gut

microbiome. I don't know, maybe somebody here, I

would love to know.

Do you want to, just for the audience, just say a

little bit more about methylene blue, Sarah or

Michelle, sort of what it is and why it has been

become such a hot topic. As I speak this past

week, methylene blue blew up again on the

Internet because.

Did it?

Yes. Robert F. Kennedy. Someone shot a video on

their phone of him putting it in his water on Air

Force One or something. So now everyone's taken

over the Internet.

Again now this kind of taking off now with, you

know, you would never, I would never think that

we would be kind of being introduced to these

health topics in this way, but however it's

coming through, that's great. Methylene blue

actually historically is a dye. It's a dye that

was used actually, you know, in blue jeans. You

know, so it's a chemical. But the thing about

methylene blue is it's an electronic recycler. So

it's not only an electron donator, but it

actually removes excess electrons. So from the

point of view of having something that would work

well with red light therapy, it is a compound

that people have been using because, you know,

you can supply even more electrons into the

electron transport chain to enhance the effect,

or if you're kind of over producing electrons in

the form of reactive oxygen species, you can mop

some of them up. So a lot of people use Methylene

blue. You know, I've seen people use it in their

eyes lately. You know, people are using it in

quite outrageous ways. It, it has been used

historically in the US Military. You know, that's

why people talk about, you know, because you pee

blue afterwards. So I think, you know, it has a,

it has a very strange biological effect. And

actually that's how you can titrate the dose is

by seeing how blue your pee is and kind of

titrating back from that. But it was used, it was

used for malaria actually, to treat malaria

because it is anti parasitic because of this

effect on the electrons and it actually has an

effect on the outer coats of the, of the

parasites. So this is kind of where I'm, I have

tried it. I'm happy to try things on myself and

see how it works. I'm not always happy about

recommending it to other people unless I really

for sure know that it's totally safe. And I'm

not, I'm not 100% convinced about it right now

because I just need a little bit more information

on how it is actually interacting with the gut

microbiome. Because my whole thing is, you know,

that I want the body to be optimally functioning

and, you know, if you focus just on one thing,

like you focus on getting more electrons to the

brain to the detriment of your gut bacteria, that

doesn't sit well with me. But I'm very happy to

hear anybody else's input on this because it's

something that, as you say, it's, Everybody talks

about it and if you go to any biohacking event,

everyone's got a blue tongue and now they've got

blue eyes, you know, where they're actually

dropping it into the whites of their eyes.

All right.

I do. I have used it and I have used it and I did

think I, I got more energy for it. Do I use it

every day? No, I don't. Do I use it every, Do I

recommend it to other people? No, not unless they

really kind of know the risks and they want to do

a little protocol in it. And I have to say that

just from an N of one of a volunteer here who's

got motor neuron, he did find it helped with

brain fog.

Right? Yes. No, I've, I've heard good feedback on

it. I also haven't tried it. I know. I think

people think I try all the things. I'm, I'm

pretty low maintenance. I, I don't use that many

extra products, to be honest. Julie?

Yes, Hi. So my question Actually is this is.

Kind of good to follow on the methylene blue

topic because I'm thinking about.

Or could you talk about the difference.

Between a therapy for a particular disease.

State, such as Parkinson's versus that

deficiencies.

Or health issues that maybe led to that.

And I feel like methylene blue kind of falls into

that. Like could it be used therapeutically

versus.

Do you use it in a preventative sort of way?

Because the preventative piece just seems so much

more complex as far as what's leading to

different disease states. Yeah, I think a lot of

it is urgency and motivation. If you find

yourself already in a fairly progressed disease

state, maybe you may take a more calculated risk.

But I think it is just about calculating risk.

With any kind of drug, with any kind of non

natural intervention, there's going to be a side

effect somewhere down the line. There's always a

price to pay for a pharmaceutical or for a drug.

And methylene blue does sit a little bit within

that category. Whether it's your detox organs or

maybe potentially upsetting your bacteria

balance, there's always some price to pay. But

it's about taking a calculated risk because if

you're in a fairly progressed disease state, you

might find that that risk is worth it for the

potential gain. I think from a prevention point

of view it's very, you know, it's very simple.

It's just really optimize your environment. Well,

this is my advice. Maybe this isn't advice that

anybody would take, but optimize your light

environment, optimize your relationships,

optimize everything and you don't need to do to

anything. In addition to that, I, I think it may

be something where you would want to do something

Additionally, once you find yourself in that

state or whether you're like me and you're just

curious and you just want to find out, but it's

not something I would do long term without having

the necessity to do that. So again, I think it's

about risk management. I do have a predisposition

for neurodegeneration, so I am kind of always

trying to weigh up what is the potential risk to

this particular therapy versus the potential

advantage. But yes, you're right, prevention is

tricky. It's a hard sell for sure. And it's a

tricky one to know what you, what's the best

thing you can do to put yourself in a better

position in your later life.

All right, so Sarah, where can people find you

and where can they find.

The Sarah Thrive so people can find me. It's my

name's Sarah. But my company is also Sarah. So

I've. I've helpfully won this T shirt so that

people can see the different spelling. But my

name, my name's Sarah Turner and my company is

called Sarah Thrive. Spelled like the brain. C E

R A, like cerebral, like cerebellum. So I'm on

almost all socials with that handle, Sarah

Thrive. So you can LinkedIn whatever it is. It's

Sarah Thrive. The company is SarahThrive.com and

also Shaws. And anything, any kind of contact

info you find goes to me. So, you know, you're

more than welcome to email me. Otherwise it's

just sarathrive.com great.

And Jedidiah has questions.

Can you hear me?

Yep.

So in your experience, do Parkinson's patients

tend to be dehydrated and. Yeah, sorry, do they

tend to be dehydrated and, and do you tend. Do

they tend to be fast oxidizers? You're asking me

if they're dehydrated and fast oxidizers? I. I

don't know. I mean, I don't have a measure of

someone's hydration status. If people are coming

to me with Parkinson's, usually it's because

they've been diagnosed with it and so they're

just coming with a pre diagnosis. And most of the

time people don't know things like their status.

Most, most people are just coming from what, what

the doctors told them, and presumably they're

just being measured based on things like tremor

and maybe mri. So I, I really don't know. I mean,

I, I think obviously hydration goes very closely

with the light piece that we're talking about,

because if you're very healthy and your proteins

are working properly in your brain, then they're

going to be hydrated proteins so that they fold

in the right way. Because a lot of

neurodegeneration comes from misfolding of

proteins, which, you know, is coming from the

fact that maybe the water surrounding them isn't

charged or charged effectively, that the proteins

can fold in the right way. So I would think that

neurodegeneration is definitely associated with

some kind of water issue. But no, I, I wouldn't

have that additional information, and I'm not

sure that even the people who have been diagnosed

have that information. What. What's your take on

it? Well, I'm speaking more personally, but yes,

it seems to me that, that there's a lot to do

with that. I know that this is a question. If you

know anything more about it. Melanin itself

requires dopamine to make melanin. And since we

don't create enough dopamine in the first place,

that creates a problem receiving the light and

creating the water. I also wondered about the

fast oxidation piece because when you were

talking about methylene blue and excess

electrons. I know for myself and for my family

line, it seems like people are fast oxidizers. In

other words, they're, they're more high strung

and high metabolism, fast metabolism, as opposed

to the people that, you know.

On the other, have the other metabolic.

Problems of the, you know, putting on weight and

being the low metabolizers. And I want to know if

you had any experience with that or, you know,

observed just people who you worked with? No, you

know, I don't. And I suppose the science is only

good as the data that's collected from people,

because if this data was being collected, then we

would be able to do an analysis and find out, you

know, look for those trends. But I think if in

all the research, the data, we're not collecting

those data points, then it's very difficult to

say, yeah, there does seem to be a trend for

these kinds of things. Maybe once, you know,

maybe, you know, the whole thing about AI is

getting huge now, but maybe once we start to go

back, we could retrospectively look, if any, if

any of this data was collected, then we could see

trends. But I mean, your own observation again,

is data in itself. So if that's something you're

observing yourself, I would suggest that, that,

that could definitely be your idea of the survey.

I mean, just asking those questions. I'd love to

be, I mean, the clinic that I go to for

Parkinson's is not going to let me interview my

fellow patients. And so I would love to create a

survey just to ask the group of Parkinson's

patients whether they have symptoms that would

say, yes, you're dehydrated or yes, you are fast

oxidizer, things like that. Another thing I'm

curious about is this whole thing of the, the arc

that you have instead of like I have a red light

panel and just use it on my brain and my,

actually my whole torso, front and back. But

you're saying that because of the skull, the

light doesn't come in at all angles. Is that

correct? Yes. I'm saying in order to actually get

light onto the surface of the brain, you probably

need to have a device that goes flush to your

head rather than a device that's kind of square

on. Yes. But you're, you're still getting the

light in through the body, you know, you're still

having the systemic effect. And, and certainly,

you know, if you're shining it onto the abdomen,

you're still getting that gut effect where

you're, you're going to get a brain effect. It's

just if you want to target the brain directly, I

really think that you need to have a device

that's contoured. Otherwise the light just can't

get through the skull. All right.

Good to know. Thank you. Thank you. And thank

you, Sarah. It's been so good. And I just wanted

to pick up on that, the dehydration piece. So for

our podcast audience, a little more general than

the pros we have in the room right now. Could you

just say a little bit? I mean, I think when most

people think dehydration, we think, oh, I didn't

drink enough water. No, of course we need to

drink a decent amount of high quality water. But

talk to me about cellular dehydration. And you

already mentioned the effect that that could have

on the brain in terms of protein folding. But how

does light help with hydration?

Yeah, I think it's an important topic. It's, it's

about how the body is utilizing the water. And,

and if we think about inside the body, we are a

huge percentage of water, and some of that is in

our cells and some of it is in our blood. And it

makes a difference of where that water is

situated. It also makes a difference of making

sure that all the proteins in our bodies are

surrounded by water. And we mentioned May Wan ho

earlier. You know, this is one of her principles,

that everything is being kind of conducted in

this way via the water in our bodies. Because,

you know, we have intracellular water, but we

also have all of this water surrounding all of

our proteins. And from the work of Jerry Pollock,

we know that you can change the structure or the

order of the water when you expose a hydrophilic

surface, which is basically means water loving.

But any kind of membrane or anything inside our

body, if you expose the water that's next to one

of those surfaces to light, we can actually

change the order or the structure of water. And

this is a hugely fascinating concept, and

probably we could talk for an hour about it on

its own, but it basically means that you can have

different visualization viscosities of water in

different areas of the bodies and also different

charges. So my point of view is like protein

folding. Proteins fold according to where the

relative charges are on the, on the surface

structure. So if you don't have those charges or

if they're weak charges because, you know, we

have dehydration or not enough in those areas.

And you can have suboptimal functioning of the

cell. Hydration is very important. But also

having water, you're right, you could drink a

gallon of water. It's not going to the right

places, or your detox organs are not working

properly. Just peeing it all out. You know,

you're not getting that effect. So it's about

again, thinking holistically about it. You drink

enough water, but you also need the light

exposure and the good food and the good

environment in order to make maximum use of that

water so that you are hydrated.

Right. Coming back to what you were saying

earlier about keeping the battery charged, Right.

We need to be well hydrated, and the light and

the water all work together to keep us in that.

In that healthy state. Sarah, thank you so much.

Any last thoughts or anything that's coming to

you that you'd like to share with our audience

about anything?

No, I do. I think we've covered everything and it

was lovely to speak to your group. I think we did

good to do a podcast where we got some

interaction, but I also think it's also about

keeping it simple. You know, we just need to

really understand the importance of light in

biology and also in our science because it is

something that I feel like has been. We're just

so far removed from it. But as soon as you start

to kind of gain that concept and even, you know,

do little simple experiments, be outdoors, kind

of be your N equals one, you know, I think it

becomes more real and tangible because sometimes

the science, you know, we can get a little bit

stuck in the weeds, but it's actually very

simple. You know, good water, good light, good

friends. Done. You know, love it.

Yes. Real water, real food, real light, real

people.

Yes. Yes.

Recipe for happiness. And health. And happiness.

Sarah appreciates seeing you. I know you're very

busy traveling the world, attending all these

conferences, so I'd love to do this again

sometime. And thanks for being back on the QVC

podcast.

Thank you. Thank you all. Bye. Bye.