I always wanted to be let off at the corner 'cause I didn't want my friends to see where I lived. I didn't want them to know my dad was a gardener. All I could do was think of why couldn't I be someone else? And that that's the ultimate self-hatred is wanting to be someone else.

I never knew my dad felt this way about himself or my Han. I always thought of him as this proud Asian American filmmaker. So I guess it's just hard to learn that he was so ashamed of who he was and it hurts even more to know that he had no one to talk to, no one to help him understand what was going on or how to cope.

We will discuss race and how it plays a factor and how we didn't even talk about this topic 'cause we were afraid

A Black Executive Perspective.

We are coming to you live from the new BEP studio for another thought provoking episode of A Black Executive Perspective podcast, A safe space where we discuss all matters related to race, culture, and those uncomfortable topics that people tend to avoid. I'm your host Tony Tidbit. So before we get started on this fantastic episode, I want to give a friendly reminder to all of you out there in the stratosphere. Make sure you check out our partners at CODE M Magazine, whose mission is to save the black family by first saving the black man. So you definitely wanna check them out @codemmagazine.com. That is codemmagazine.com. So today. We dive into the crossroads of filmmaking, DEI and Asian American history with an award-winning documentary producer and director, director Eurie Chung. From an unexpected path into the industry to making of Third Act, we'll uncover the creative and financial hurdles of bringing diverse stories to the screen. At a time when DEI faces growing resistance, we will discuss the persistent barriers to amplifying marginalized voices, and we'll also bridge the press and present examining how a pivotal Asian American legal battle shaped US citizenship rights and why those historical struggles still resonate in today's policies. So let me tell you a little bit about my good friend Eurie Chung. She's a documentary producer dedicated to amplifying Asian American narratives through film as a head of flash cuts. Along alongside her partner, Walt Louis. She has spent nearly two decades supporting filmmakers across all facets of production and post-production. Her diverse body and work includes the documentary we're gonna talk about today, Third Act, which was at Sundance Forever We Are Young, That was at South by Southwest, as well as the acclaimed PBS docuseries, Asian Americans, which earned a 2020 Peabody Award. Most recently, she directed a documentary short, I can't keep quiet. She's a 2024 Sundance Producer Lab fellow, and Eurie continues to champion under underrepresented voices in the. Eurie Chung, welcome to A Black Executive Perspective podcast, my sister.

Hi Tony. Thank you so much for having me.

Well, thank you for coming. Look, you got you, you, you making films all over the place, right? And they're being recognized all over. I mean, I love it. Oh my God. Peabody Award winner and you know, the Sundance and oh my God. Just a lot of great things. So we're excited that you're able to come on today and share your story and talk about, you know, Asian American culture and just educate everyone on something that, to be honest, in my opinion. It has not been elevated in the way it should be elevated, you know, across all platforms and spectrums. But before we get into the heavy stuff, let's learn a little bit more about you. So tell us where you're currently residing and a little bit about your family.

Sure. Uh, I'm based in LA uh, weather's colder than it should be, uh, but I'm soft now. Uh, and uh, yeah, I live here with my partner and our cat and dog.

So, who runs the house? The cat and the dog.

The cat absolutely runs the house.

Yeah. You know why I asked that? 'cause it's no different in my house. Right. My dog, our dog is like 80 pounds. The cat may be eight pounds or 10 pounds. Yeah. And the cat runs the house.

The

dog is afraid of the cat.

Exactly. The cat always goes to the highest position in the room and looks down on all of this.

Yeah. You know, it's funny, my, our dog, the cat and the cat knows Fluffy, that's her name. She knows that Tucker is afraid of her. So when he tries to come down the stairs, she'll stand at the bottom of the stairs on purpose. Or if he's trying to come upstairs, she'll stand up there and just, and he'll get stuck on the stairs and he'll start crying and then we're like, what's wrong? And we'll look and fluffy standing at the top of the stairs, like, yeah, what are you going to do? All right. And, and, and, and we gotta make fluffy moves so he can go up and down the stairs. So it's, it's interesting. So at least we know that we're not the only ones that the cat runs the house with the dog.

No, absolutely not. Oh yeah.

Okay, cool. So listen, you, you, you have a very busy schedule, my friend. You're doing a lot. So the question I have, why did you wanna come on A Black Executive Perspective podcast? Talk about this topic.

Sure. Uh, a, a person, a director I work with before, um, uh, Ilana Trachtman, uh, who directed Ain't No Back to a Merry-Go-Round, said that she had a great experience, uh, coming on your podcast and that you know, that I should talk to you. And I feel like what you're doing here with a podcast is really about diversity in a real way, which think gets lost sometimes in the conversations, right? We always, like you said, uh, tiptoe around it, it's hard conversations. And I think I appreciated the fact that you, you wanna address things head on and, um, it's a lot of my work, so it seemed like it was a good fit. I.

Well, thank you for that. And more importantly, we're glad that you are here to talk about this important topic. And guess what, we're not gonna tiptoe around this one as well. So you ready to talk about it, my friend?

Yes, let's ready to talk.

All right, so let's talk about it. So look, you know, one of the things when I was, you know, doing some research on you and just seeing all the incredible things that you were doing and you know, especially your movie Third Act, which we'll dive into shortly, but you know, I always, I am intrigued by how somebody has a plan. To do one thing, and then they end up doing something totally different. So, you know, you, you had planned to pursue a master's degree in social work out at UCLA, right? But then you, you took a totally different direction and then you got in the filmmaking. So talk a little bit about that, how that pivot that, that, uh, you were on the yellow brick road of being, getting a social, uh, uh, a master's degree in social work and you got off in the woods and started doing something else. Talk to us a little, talk to us about that. Sure,

sure, sure. Um, I often ask myself the same question, um, but, uh, it was important to me to go to UCLA and pursue a master's degree in Asian American studies. That was first and foremost. Um, social work. You know, you can kind of get a degree at a number of institutions, but I found that. You know, UCLA was offering both, so that's kind of like pushed me kind of to the coast if, if you will. Mm-hmm. From, um, Connecticut and Boston, where I had spent most of my life and the way the program's structured the first year is all Asian American studies and then you start your social work degree. And I think just being immersed in the history and the issues and like taking that documentary class with Bob Nakamura, who's the subject of Third Act, um, it just really opened my eyes to the possibilities of media in a way that I hadn't understood until I, until I got there. So if ultimately what I wanted to do with social work is kind of. Understand Asian American experiences increase empathy for Asian American communities. And like basically I wanted to work in institutions that kind of support Asian American, uh, people and communities and mental health and all of those things. Um, and I felt like I didn't wanna do that outside of having this grounding in Asian American studies. So, you know, I think when I think back on it now, what I was able to find in filmmaking was like a creative way to do that, what I wanted to do in social work. And instead of being more individualized in kind of what I was doing, I could make a film that would like, you know, it could be seen by a lot of people and have a different kind of impact. Right. Um, and, and that ended up sort of like, in some ways I think I'm still social working, social working, but like through film, because the kind of content that I'm doing is focused on those communities and giving, giving people a voice so that like. Other people who see them feel empowered to kind of reclaim their stories and maybe delve into topics that they wouldn't have, right? Uh, otherwise, like things that they're afraid to talk about or things that hadn't been discussed, really. Um, so I think that's, that's sort of how it, it happened and it makes sense now looking back, but at the time it seemed a little insane, uh, to just completely drop social work as like a practical career.

You know, it always makes sense later, uh, after you've gone through the journey. But, you know, I, I'm always interested to hear how people, you know, ended up where they are. Right. You know, a lot of kids go to school to get a degree. They end up getting a degree. And the majority of them end up working in something totally different than the, uh, degree that they got right now. You, you talked about growing up in Connecticut and Boston, you know, out here on the East coast, which, you know, it's not, you know, la la land or movie or movie making land or anything like that. You know, I will say now there's a lot more, uh, television shows and movies being produced out here on the east coast in Connecticut and Boston, but not to the la So growing up out here, did you, even though you, were you pursuing social work, did you see yourself being a storyteller, uh, in those early days?

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I feel like, you know, if I was like a little kid growing up, like I wanted to be a writer, it just didn't seem practical. Right? Like a novelist or you know, something like that. And I just, I just didn't, I just didn't think it was something that I was allowed to do really, despite being an English major or whatever at college. So I think I. I knew that I was drawn to storytelling. I just didn't understand what role I would have in it, or if there even really was one for me. But I also like, grew up like addicted to tv, you know? And I think it didn't occur to me that, that that's a job, like someone actually has to write that and make, make those stories. So.

So when you say you didn't think you, and, and, and I'm paraphrasing, um, didn't have the right to do it, what do you mean by that?

Uh, I just, in addition to just having immigrant Korean parents, you know, who probably wouldn't accept that, you know, like you wanna be successful, you know, like I was, I was working from the age of 15 or whatever, you know, you don't wanna, you don't wanna have your parents worried about you, right? Like that. And that's why they always push you towards like the more traditional jobs of it's, I mean, it's very stereotypical lawyer, doctor, you know, like those are the things that make sense to them. Um, I knew I didn't want to do those things, but. I also didn't like, I didn't understand like, what do you do if you wanna be a writer? You just like wake up one day and like, go to your word processor and just start typing things. You know, like, and then like, right. And then what happens? Like, right. I didn't understand. Like, you get an agent and you, you know, it's like, but it's, it's, it's a difficult process. Like it's, you know, in some ways it's like a one in a million lottery ticket, right? So like,

right.

I think I understood instinctively that it would be hard to, to navigate that, or even, you know, even if I wanted to become a writer. So it's. Maybe I didn't give myself the permission in terms of like being allowed to. Right. It's not like any, no one, I never said out loud, I want to be a writer, and someone said, no way. You know, like it wasn't that, I think I was like, it's what you

thought in your own mind. Correct. Right, correct. Right, right. Like,

I was limiting myself in terms of like, well, what is realistic? What is possible? Like, uh, maybe I was overly pragmatic, you know, as a kid I wasn't like dreaming about unicorns and, you know, like the big, the, you know, Hollywood or anything. So.

Well, I, I think also to your point though, right? You know, our parents, um, drop seeds in our minds in terms of what they think we could be or what's a, what they perceive as a great career. You know, they want the best for us. Um, and then there's not a lot of dreaming outside of that. Okay, so very rarely somebody says, oh, I think you could be a writer, or I think you could be a director. Or, I think you could, you know, so, or you could be president of the United States, say, why don't you, you know, so those things, you know, your parents don't, nine times to 10 don't say those things, right? Yep. They say to your point, the practical things in terms of, because they want you to, you know, obviously be, be better than them. And those careers that they plant are, you know, safe, conservative careers that, you know, people do become successful at them. Um, you know, let me ask you this. You know, when I was coming up in Detroit, Michigan, you know, and I had my first like racial awakening when I was 10 years old. I don't wanna say from that time, maybe it was earlier to be honest, but I started really diving into African American history. You know, I really wanted to know more about, uh, my people's history, where I come from. I. What, where did black people come? I mean, you know, you go to school and you get a limited, uh, version or just a little taste of those things. Right. And so, you know, I, I just wanted, and we didn't have iPhones and stuff of that nature, you know, you had to go to the library and I would read all these type books and, and, and, you know, really dive into understanding, um, where I came from, what's the struggle of, of African American people here. And, and it really helped shape my perspective. Right. Talk a little bit about, you know, you growing up and, and you know, what background shaped your perspective where you started saying, you know what, I wanna start pushing and start promoting and, and diving into Asian American stories. I.

Yeah, so I, I, Korean Americans, there's a big evangelical church culture, I don't know if you're aware of, but like a, a lot of community, Korean community in the United States is built around a church, um, Methodist, I don't know, Presbyterian, whatever, but like mm-hmm. Mostly those, those denominations. And that is the context in which I understood being Korean. Like I didn't, you know, like outside of my family, I, I experienced being Korean through going to church every Sunday, right? Mm-hmm. And so just real quick, when

you said yes, when you said you experienced being Korean, going to church, so dive deeper into that, how, how's experience in Korean going to church every Sunday? Tell me a little bit more about that.

That's where you saw most of the Korean people you would interact with. You know, it's not like you would see them at, you wouldn't see them at like school, for example. Right? Like maybe my cousin or something, you know? But like, right. It wasn't like, there were a bunch of Korean kids at school and so, you know, where you hear the most Korean spoken, like where all your social interactions with the Koreans as like a group as opposed to your parents or your siblings. That all happened at church. So it was like, it was very social in addition to like, you know, Bible study and sermons and, you know, all that. Um, and like, I honestly felt like a little bit of an outsider most of the time. 'cause I was, I felt like I was like a weirdo, like I wasn't. I, I don't know what it, I just never quite fit in for whatever reasons. Um, and if I'm being totally honest, like once I got to high school and started learning about like the civil rights movement and all that stuff, I was like very jealous of black churches. Like mm-hmm. That experience felt like, whoa. Like they're political, but they, you know, but it comes, you know, it's like they're actually talking about these issues in church, whereas like,

because it was grounded, it was grounded in the church. Right,

right. So it's like, it wasn't just religion or Christianity. Correct. It was like actually like, how are we practicing this, these concepts, right. Of um, but like, I felt like we were just like learning about things in a very, like. Maybe it's just 'cause Koreans felt they, they weren't part of Americanist society, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, like existed in parallel things, but like, we never talked about politics or like, actually things that were happening outside our front door. We would just be like very insular. And that's, that was something that always bothered me about church. Mm-hmm. And so when I would like, like, I just remember just being like enamored with like Martin Luther King and his speeches and like literally going to Barnes and Noble or whatever, you know, in high school and buying a book of his speeches because like mm-hmm. That was the way that like, oh, like what he's talking about feels very real to me. I'm not black, but you know, like he's speaking about things that I think are important. Like social justice, right? Poverty, all of these things that I felt like we were ignoring in the Korean church. So I think that I. In terms of like a racial awakening, I was very in tune with like the black civil rights movement. And I like devoured as much as I can could about that. And I remember watching Eyes on the Prize, like either in high school or college, you know, and just being like, whoa, look, like, look at this. And it took me a while to figure out like, oh, Asian Americans have that too. We just don't learn about it. Um, right, right. You know, like there's, there was a similar like awakening of like, oh, we need to be taught this stuff. Like we can, we, we should be taught this stuff. And like, who's gonna teach us and how are we gonna figure those things out? So that's. I got a little taste of it. I got basically none in high school. I got a little taste of it in college through like two or three courses. And then I was like, I, this is why I need to go to UCLA. Like I need to go up to a place where like, this is actually like an established discipline and curriculum and they have history and they're teaching us, like talking to people my parents age who were actually born here. And I'm not like diminishing the immigrant experience, but like I could relate to them because they understood my experience as like the child of immigrants even though they were older. Right. So like it was, it was sort of coming into contact with this older generation who had fought to get this knowledge and teach this.

You talking about the people at UCLA?

Yeah.

Got it, got it, got it, got it, got it.

With professors at UCLA who were, you know, actually like doing the work and. People like Bob who are actually part of, you know, almost birthing this idea of ethnic studies and Asian American studies.

Right, right. You know what's interesting as you tell this, um, and you know, we never met, we are sitting here on a podcast sharing stories and what's interesting is that, you know, part of what I did is part of what you did right? Is that you got a taste of what was going on and then you started wanting more and you started going and researching it and, and reading books and watching movies and, you know, that, um, for me was a sense of pride. Right, because I wanted to know more about what was going on, and I wanted, you know, to make sure that our people was always advancing all right. And moving forward. And so I'm, you know, it was interesting you're telling me that and saying, Hey, I, civil rights movement was something that, you know, was speaking to me as well and, you know, made me go and, and so that is, that is awesome. And then you went out to LA and you met Bob. Who is the, the, the, the star of the, the documentary, you know, Third Act. Which is about his life. So speak a little bit about, talk a little bit about Third Act, um, and tell everybody, you know, how did it start? Why is it important? And a lot about Bob because that guy, the, the majority of people, the Asian godfather of movie making, I believe that's what the, what his title is. So tell us more about Bob.

Sure. Um, Bob Nakamura, he was actually incarcerated in Manzanar when he was six years old. And so that experience shaped his life

tremendously. And just to, and just to be clear, because most people don't know what Manza car is, so Sir,

uh, Manzanar is a Japanese American, uh, sorry, Japanese American concentration camp that happened, uh, in the wake of the bombing of Pearl Harbor in World War ii, where, uh, FDR signed an executive order stating that. Any one of Japanese descent was a potential enemy, uh, and needed to be removed from their homes and incarcerated. And so they built, I'm sorry that, I don't know the exact number, but they built various camps in remote areas, you know, throughout like 10 or 11

of them. I think it was 10, 11 camps. Yeah.

So Manzanar is, uh, close to mount, sorry, I forget the mount. It's, it's about three or three hours away from LA on your way up to Mammoth Mountain. That, that stretch of road. It's very, it's high desert. It's super. Cold, dusty, windy, isolated, away from everything. And so what had happened with, you know, obviously there's a huge number of, uh, Japanese Americans in Los Angeles. They were given very little notice to sell their things, pack up what they could carry and board a bus, um, that would take them oftentimes first to Santa Anita Racetrack, where they actually had to sleep in horse stalls. Um, and then from there, while they were building the actual barracks in which they would come to live later, um, then they would be moved to those camps.

And they were, these were US citizens, correct?

Uh, majority US citizens. A lot of them were, may have been immigrants, but they had children who were here, um, children who were born here. Um, and it's a, the number, the total number is about 120,000. Um, who were taken. To live in these camps and they were not released until the end of the war.

Hmm. And, and Bob Li and he was, he experienced that as a 6-year-old.

Yes. So you see his photo of him and attending elementary school, you know, uh, with all the other kids his age. So he is sort of the, the younger end, I guess, of like kind of the last generation of survivors. Correct. People of that age right now. 'cause he's 89 now. Um, anyway, that once the civil rights movement actually happened in the, in the sixties, he started to be like, wait, what, what is this camp? You know, I went to this camp, like we never talk about it. And like, he ended up partnering with people a little bit younger than him who were not in the camps, but were children of people who had, who had been in the camps. And I. They were like, we wanna know what this is. Let's march to Manzanar. And like they were like, oh wait, it's like 300 miles away or something. So, um, it became this discovery. It's like that that first pilgrimage in 1969 was a huge moment of discovery and racial awakening and, you know, personal identity and, and things in that had, it ended up becoming an annual pilgrimage eventually, where we, they would take buses of people up to see the site and then it became a national park and, you know, all of these things. So Bob, I think understanding the power of that moment, of discovering his, you know, that his history is actually connected to US history, American history, um, he moved from being a photographer to basically being like a documentary filmmaker where he's one of the earliest people to document the experience of Japanese concentration camps in the United States.

I have a clip I want to play from Third Act that kind of speaks to exactly what you said, so let's play the clip right now. Then I want to hear your thoughts. After

my life changed around totally. In the seventies when anti-war movement and Asian American movement started, it was like we were building something, a whole new concept, like ethnic studies, and you could see progress. We were questioning white society in general. Everything I did before I began to look at as kind of bullshit. I had all the skills, and now the movement gave me the content for my work. The movement, more or less solved all my problems. My artistic problems, my identity problems, my sense of self-worth, sense of belonging, it gave meaning to my life.

So, wow. I mean, here's a guy who's known as the godfather of Asian American films is saying the movement, uh, gave him, there was an awakening for him, and it, and, and I love the party said, it gave me my, helped me find my identity. Okay. So speak a little bit about that.

Yeah, I, I think that what he, his gift as a teacher was to give that to all of us. You know, who, who took his class, which is that, you know, this isn't just a course, you know, Asian American Studies 1 0 1 or something, you know, like he. Sharing his experience and awakening with learning about that history. I think he gave us all that gift, which is to be like, take, take this knowledge. But like, you know, you don't have to necessarily, you know, be, go out and make films, but like, it should transform you. Right? Like this knowledge should have an impact on you personally. 'cause like, I'm not Japanese American specifically, but that this concept of Asian American is actually kind of a radical concept that people whose ancestors come from Asia, which is like, you know, dozens of languages that we cannot communicate with each other, you know, back home. But that like our faces, you know, kind of, you know, put us together in a group. But that there, there can be power in that. And there's power in understanding. The origins of, you know, ethnic studies and Asian American studies, that when we did come together and demand those things, you know, in the sixties and SF State and Berkeley, um, that that happened also in, in Unity with the Third World Liberation Front and Black power activists and, you know, Latino activists, Chicano activists, you know, American Indian activists. So like, I think, I think that's really what I took from Asian American Studies is like mm-hmm. It's, it's, it's very empowering to be able to own your own story and to know it and to see the value in it. And I think it does open you up, it opens your mind in a different way to like, what, what, what is possible? Like we, we don't have to be, I. Just always functioning from like a place of invisibility or visibility or, you know, deficits or, you know, whatever. Like, oh, well no one did this for us. It's like, no, they're never gonna do it for you. Right. Like, but you, once you have this knowledge, you can go forward and make, make the path that you want to build for others. So that's Bob as the Godfather, right? He made a path for us as media makers, as creative people, as, you know, Asian Americans, um, to know this history and then like, you know, move forward with it and take it into a different direction. And that's sort of how Third Act became what it became. Uh, but

he also, he also did that with his son, right? Exactly. Yeah. 'cause his son Yeah. You know, is the one that wanted to make the movie Third Act about his father. So speak a little bit about that as well.

Yeah. So Tad Nakamura is Bob's son. Um. Tad actually went to UCLA as an undergrad, took his father's class. He learned, learned about to feed foot of Masters, if you will. But he, I think he was surprised that he was good at it. I think Bob was surprised that he wanted to, you know, follow in his footsteps and not do something totally different. But the film kind of just started out as like, maybe we should do a short film that tells people about Bob ER's career because people, he's well known in certain communities, but definitely not on like a national scale. Right, right. You know, definitely not in terms of like, really, like if you're outside of the documentary community or the American community, Japanese American community just may not know every, everything that he did. So it kind of started off as like, oh, maybe this is just like a biopic about this person's life who you should know about. Um. So the process really started in 2018 where I think Tad was like, I'm gonna raise money. I'm gonna start, you know, get some grants and you know, just start documenting this. 'cause my father's getting older, you know, he's in his eighties, so, you know, who knows, you know, how much time we have to, to do this. In the course of making the film, Bob was diagnosed with Parkinson's and it just became clear that like, you know, his speech was slowing down. You know, his physical, his physicality, you know, was, was not as robust as it was when they started. And so, you know, we, the process of making the film was difficult because Tad actually in his past films, has edited and directed them himself. And I think that this ended up being a little bit too personal in some ways for him to tackle. Like he didn't have the emotional distance in some ways to, to do it. And so. He had asked me to produce, and I was like, that means a lot of different things to different people. Like what does producing mean for you? And I, I took the class Ethnocommunications at UCLA as a grad student with Bob as my instructor. He eventually became my thesis advisor, but Tad was part of the teaching staff at that point, even though he was, uh, still in school. So, you know, I've known them since like 2003, you know, and mm-hmm. As, as a unit essentially, right? That they, they're kind of, um, both responsible for teaching me how to be a filmmaker. Um, tad and I have been friends since then, you know, not, not best friends, but like, we hang out socially. Like I've helped him on other films, but this is the first film where it was really like, okay, like I am much more day to day in terms of like helping this get done. Um, I think the, the Parkinson's diagnosis kind of forced us to face Bob's mortality.

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And I think it forced Tad to realize that like a regular biopic is probably not gonna do it. I remember one thing that I told him was like, frankly, I can make that version of the film about your dad. I know your dad well enough. I think he's comfortable enough with me, you know, that he would say what he needed to say. No one can make this film a ver the version of the film that is your relationship as a filmmaker to your filmmaker father, and. How he has taught you how to make this film, right? Like that's a very different, it's a little bit meta, but it's a, it's a different film that no one else can make. So if you, if you aren't a character in this and we're, you know, we're just watching Bob's life from here, from a distance, from any person observing his career. Um, two very different films. Yes. So it was a struggle

and it, it seemed that, you know, I watched it and number one, very sad, um, and very emotional. And, and when I say emotional, you know, I'm looking at it, obviously I'm looking at it from an audience point of view, but I put myself in Tad's position where if that was my father, and you know, as he opened up, I always saw my father as a superhero. And then you hear your father talk about his depression, um. And the things that he was going through that he didn't tell anybody about, and then you find out he has Parkinson's and it, it was just it. It was it. I can imagine how tough that was to, you know, create a movie that you wanna honor your father and all the things that he has done. So people outside of the network or California or whatever, that can really dive in and see how great of a man he is and what, you know, what type of work he has done and how many voices that he was able to amplify. But then at the same time, you see your father's mortality and your father is opening up to you and sharing things. Um, that you would never, not, that's not a superhero. That's, he's not infallible. He's not the man of steel. Okay. That, it just blew me away. It was so emotional. It was a great, great documentary. And, but you had something to do with it as well, right? Because you've, like you said, you've known them for over 20 years and I believe you were, you are trying to get him to finish this. Um, and, and then obviously there was pushback. So talk a little bit about that as well.

Yeah, I think the, well, number one, it was getting an, an editor who wasn't Tad himself to look at the footage fresh and to be able to say like this, you know, uh, you can't, you can't, not everything can be super rosy, right? Like you need, you need to be able to. Show what's real, you know? But it's like, how far does that go? 'cause like, you could keep filming forever, right? You're, you're my son. Right? Right. Like, he's never, he's not gonna stop you. Right. So, you know, like, I think step one was like, okay, we, we actually need an editor with a, you know, just a little bit of emotional distance to, to help us wade through years of footage and figure out what is, what is the actual through line here. Um, I'll say that for a long time it felt like a biopic mashed with a personal story, right? That they weren't, they weren't fully integrated in that way. Right. Where Tad Todd felt like a character from the beginning. Right. They kind of felt like we spent the first hour, so just learning about Bob's career. Correct. And then, and then it was like, oh, and then things changed and I realized like, oh, this isn't the movie that I was gonna make it. Those things are all still in there. I think it was just how we, how are we integrating it sooner so that I think Tad was kind of avoiding being in front of the camera. Right. He's usually, he's used to being behind the camera. So. Refining the, the, the narration that, you know, that has to come from him and all of that stuff. It's like, you know, we would, we would go for a while being like, have you written a new path of narration? Like, no. Okay. Like, when, when, when can we get that done? You know? Um, but to I, I totally understand that it was very hard for him to face the film. You know, I think he has said in some interviews that like, it was almost like if I finish the film, then my, my working relationship with my father's over, right? Because this is the last film that we're gonna make together. So like, in some ways it's drawing out that process. Like no one has a relationship, no one has that kind of relationship with each other like they do, right? And so if Tad is no longer making this film about Bob. They are father and son, right? Not filmmaker father and filmmaker son. And they're not talking shop like they are then like it, it changes their relationship.

Right?

And as, and as Bob, you know, his health declines physically, you know, it changes their relationship. Tad is much more of a caretaker to his father than he was, you know, even a couple years ago. So that, you know, trying to be his friend, you know, and support him in all that, it must be like to have to go through that with a parent, um, on top of the pressure of making a film. Right. Um, it's so personal, right? I mean, it's, it's so, it's just so personal and like, I was like, yeah, it's tough to see Bob this way, right? Like, I, I'm watching the footage. It's tough, but like. Kind of what Bob says in the film, when there's a moment in the car where Tad's like, you know, I could shoot everything. It's like, shouldn't I just be spending time with you and enjoying these holidays and moments we have together? And Bob's like, I think you just have to film and finish, you know, get what you need and finish the film and move on. You know, it's so practical. But like, sometimes I felt that way too, but like, I wasn't always, you know, allowed. Not allowed. But like, it was hard to say that, like, it had to come from Bob in a way. 'cause he is like, I'm, I'm giving you permission Ted to, you know? Right. Finish the movie.

Right, right. You know, you, it came out at the, uh, Sundance Film Festival. Talk a little bit about the reaction. And then was there any moments there when, you know, the whole family was there? That's like breathtaking.

Yeah, I, so Bob actually had a film at Sundance, uh, years ago and called Toya mta, infinite Shades of Gray. And then Ted had a short film in 2006. So for them to be at Sundance together, like, I think Bob Bob's in a wheelchair now. He's, he's, you know, it's, Sundance is very hard to navigate when you're completely able bodied, let alone, you know what I mean, like freezing cold in a wheelchair. So it took a lot for Bob to get there. But you know, Bob, his wife Karen, uh, Tad's sister, Ty Tad's sister's kids, uh, Guss and Bina, tad Tad's wife, Cindy and Tad's two kids, uh, prince who was in the film and Malia, that whole crew, they were able to come and it was pretty. Spectacular. You know, so it's like the film plays right to like a 500 seat theater and everyone's crying already because it's so emotional. It is emotional. And then, then we kind of like get ourselves together and we go up for the q and a and you know, Bob gets wheeled up to the front. And I think if you don't know the family and you don't, it's, you may not know that Bob was gonna be there, right? So like, there's this like added moment of like, oh my gosh, he's actually there. And then his wife, Karen TA's mom reads a statement that Bob, that Bob wrote, which we were barely holding it together as it was. And then when she read that, his statement, I think we all lost it again. Um, because in the end he was like, you know, he started by. She was reading Bob's statement. He started by saying, you know, I've seen many versions of the film over the years, but I wanted to wait and see this ver the final version with you in the theater so we could all, you know, experience it together. Which is very sweet. And at the end he says, you know, tad, I know this isn't a very Ja or Japanese American thing to do, but I wanna tell you that like, I'm so proud of you and I love you. And I think like everyone just, we just couldn't hold it together at that point. I can imagine. Um, but yeah, it, it felt like we had the audience with us, you know, from the get go and we never lost 'em. So when we got to the front, you know, and just seeing everybody, you know, people came from the Bay Area, they came from la you know, like people who worked on the film and didn't, who were just friends, you know, of the family. I think Tad said his, one of his best friends from middle school booked. Uh, condo at Park City in October, which was before we even got into Sundance. He was like, I'm so confident that this film is great. Like, having not seen a frame of it, he was like, you're gonna get into Sundance. And he booked this, this lodging for him and his family. And I think that, that, that was like the energy, right, of the whole experience of Sundance is that we're surrounded by so much love and support, um, not just for the film, but for us, you know, as, as filmmakers.

It was a, that is awesome and it is beautiful and I recommend everyone to check this out is really, really well done. Um, very sad, but also celebratory because you're, you're celebrating a person that really came on this earth and found this calling. And really inspired and brought up people like yourself and was able to amplify stories that we wouldn't really know about today. Um, and you talked a little bit about when Tad, you know, wanted to raise money for the film. Right. Um, and I don't know exactly what he went through, but talk a little bit about the battle to raise money for, you know, Asian American stories. Right. What challenges does Asian American filmmakers face when they're trying to get financing and distribution for their work?

Um, I mean, the, the landscape is obviously super challenging. You know, regardless of the content that you're making, if you don't have like, really a-list star power or some kind of marvel, you know, IP behind what you're doing, everyone says independent filmmaking is. Very, getting increasingly difficult, and then you add the dimension of Asian American stories to it. I feel like it's always been a challenge to prove that there is a market, um, for that material. 'cause it, it's, I remember years ago talking to somebody and they told me that like when Nielsen ratings, you know, uh, clocks, viewership and ratings, they, for a long time, I don't even, I don't know if this is true today, so I don't wanna say for sure, but for a long time they, they cat classified Asian Americans as whites saying that the buying, buying patterns and the watching patterns were essentially, uh, so similar to whites that they wouldn't disaggregate that data separately. That

probably, but it was probably true.

Yeah. So it's, it was basically impossible to track, right? Like, what, what is. The buying power, the viewer, the viewership power of this demographic. And you know, at the end of the day, it's very hard to get something green lit if you can't prove that people are going to watch it or buy tickets to it. You know, it's like people don't really go to documentaries in the movie theater anyway, so, you know, like you have that element of it. Um, I think right now, documentaries, most people would say it's sort of saturated by star, star biopics, and true crime. Those are the two that essentially quote unquote sell. Um, so it's cha like I, most of my work has been on PBS, so, you know, thank, thank God for PBS, the Corporation for Public Podcasting, uh, ITBS, independent lens, like, um, those. Those programs or those strands, um, are vital to people telling diverse stories because it's, it is an investment, but it's not, it's not judged by the same metrics in terms of like profitability, um, if you were trying to go to a Netflix or something like that. Right, right, right. So like they, I am super grateful to them for, you know, ITVS particularly invested in this movie at a development stage, and then also, uh, provided production funding. And so it's like we have the, the privilege of knowing that it would have a home, you know, on pub, on PBS. Uh, but I think the overall challenges are that sometimes you're just considered too niche. Um, but then if, if as an Asian American filmmaker, you don't do Asian American content, you're doing like, you know. General, you know, not specific. They'll be like, well, how can you speak to that? Like, why aren't you speaking about your own story? So it's like, it's a little bit of a catch 22. And I think that all I can do is just say that like, look at how resonant a film like Third Act can be across, right. Uh, race and age, all. Yeah,

exactly. Across all races. Right. Third Act, you know, to me is something that, that's why after I saw it, I was blown away and I kept thinking about it. But it's, and, and the thing about it is, is so, um, relatable to. Every community, your father, a son, I mean, there's a lot of similarities. Similarities in terms of what we deal with with our children, with our parents, you know, and then seeing that they're not, that they're not infallible. So there's a million things with that, right? That could go across. However, you have to be willing to, you know, see that and be willing to invest in it. Okay? Because a lot of times, you know, people, groups are put in boxes and only black people are gonna watch black stories and all. And that's not true. It's just not true. How good is the story? Is the story relatable? So, you know, those are the things that I'm glad that you're out there, that we have to continue to fight and not just from an Asian American. It goes into, like I said, from African American, the whole nine yards. The more you start slicing the onion up. And you put an onion in different boxes. All right? And it says only these people are gonna watch this box. The, the, the, the struggle will continue to happen. However, you know, one of the things is, is that we know history repeats itself. Okay? And, you know, right now where we are in America, you know, there's an attack on DEI, there's a attack on, you know, um, you know, muffling, uh, underrepresented groups. I. There's a attack on, you know, these groups are getting more than you, so we gotta stop them. Okay. Which we know is not true, but those are the narratives that are being pushed out. Right. And then, you know, the administration came out with a narrative that they wanted to end birthright citizen. Okay. Which the majority of people don't even know where birthright relationship started. They know nothing about the 14th Amendment. But this, they, I can tell you this, they don't even know this story about Juan Kim Ark. Okay. Which, to be honest, in 1898 was the first person to be able to test the birthright citizenship. So talk a little bit about that.

Yeah. I mean, I'll say that in Asian American history specifically, they tried to use the legal system as much as possible, like flood the courts with these kinds of cases. Like there's, there's earlier cases of. American born Chinese girl being excluded from the white school and their mom, their father, mother, and father taking that case to the Supreme Court, um, saying, no, we have a right to an education and it should not be segregated, but it ended up being segregated anyway. So it is part of like Asian American history to use these legal cases to fight for their rights as citizens. Che Arc specifically is a kind of a crazy test case because it became so much bigger than this one. Yes, yes. This one man who was born here who is going back and forth between China and the US and you know, I think the third time he did it. He was basically imprisoned on the boat for two months while they decided whether or not he should have citizen, he should, he should be granted, he should be

right

citizenship to the United States on the basis of where he was born, not his parents', um, citizenship. And like the arguments were crazy. It was like, that's not how they did it in Rome. Like they, you know, the lawyers would go back and say in Rome, it's just, you know, whatever your parents are, that's what you are, not where you physically were born. And it does go back to the 14th amendment of like, if you un. If you basically undid, birthright citizenship, the the children of slaves would not be citizens. And that's really what the,

that was the key. Right. And

that's right. And so now they're trying to carve out Chinese people specifically is saying, well, we can let this, this group be citizens, but we can't let this group. And then the ultimate conclusion was that if you try to undo this, there's too many people, you're stripping, you're stripping citizenship from too many people. Like every Italian, every German, every, correct. The British, the British people who have children here. Correct. Uh, post, you know, the civil, uh, revolutionary War. So it's like, it just, they recognized that it was just gonna undo way too much. And it seems crazy to even think that they're even mildly considering this. I mean, Trump himself, isn't he? The son of the German immigrant, I believe. Well, it's, it's, it's not logical anymore. It's not logical. Makes no sense. Right.

And I, he probably, they can't do nothing with it anyway. This is just a way to to, to r people up. Right. But at the end of the day, um, you know, again, there's so much Asian American history that people are not aware of that discrimination, that's American history, that's American history. And that discrimination has been part of it from day, you know, you know, one thing that we're not even talking about was the Chinese excursion Act. That's why they didn't want him to come back. 'cause they didn't want the Chinese here in the United States. Okay. So you can go. So these things, what, what, what drives me crazy, Eurie, is that we, and I'm saying people of color, black, Asian, Hispanic, you name it, we always put ourselves in silos. And we end up, you know, fighting our battle, our own battle thinking. It is just us when that's not true. Okay. And just like you said earlier, how when you started watching the Civil Rights Movement and Martin Luther King and this and that, you felt a kinship to that. Okay. That, Hey, I'm not black, but you know what? I can, I'm, I'm, I can empathize, um, with what's going on, because that's happened. Not di not the same a hundred percent, but discrimination has happened to my group as well. Okay. And where we are today, we're so separated when we should be coming together and fighting these things together. Okay. And to me, we would have way more power. All right. See, the, the, the, the, the goal, the strategy is divide and conquer. Okay. So if we can divide them, get them to fight amongst themselves, we can conquer them. Okay. And, and that goes for white people too, because a lot of white people end up voting against their own interests because they fall into the divide and conquer things. All right? And so, you know, it's very important that we share these stories, okay. Not just from this group, from all groups. So then we can have a bigger holistic view and say, you know what? It ain't just us. It's them too. And it's also them and this and that. And you know what? I now understand what my Korean brothers and sisters go through. My Hispanic brothers and sisters go through, blah, blah, blah. And you know what, maybe we should start working and, and building and, and, and, and, and coming together so we can all fight these things collectively. What's your thoughts on that?

Oh, a hundred percent. I mean, that's, I think. Where we are today is the result of us, not us, you and me, but the collective us, uh, believing the lies that we, we have less in common with each other than with Trump and Musk, or, you know what I mean? Like Correct. There's nothing further from the truth, right? Is that all, most of us who are not billionaires, um, have a lot more in common with each other. And they've also, I think, been very successful at, um, like spreading the lie that there's, there's not enough to go around. Um, 'cause the money's all there. I mean, it's like literally the bank accounts of like, what, 20 people in, in the United States. The money is there. It's just they'll, they'll use whatever excuse they can to not. Not give it to you, not pay their taxes, not, you know, not do the things that, that make it seem like there's an abundance. I think the US is the richest country in the world. You know, like it's, it's crazy to think that anywhere in the United States, anyone is going hungry, that anyone is going without housing, that, you know, like all of these social quote unquote social problems, they're not, they're not individual problems. They're actually social problems. They're society, societal problems in how we've dealt with them. Um, but yeah, I mean, we're, it's, we're just as a collective believing the lie that we, that we don't have things in common with each other. That, that we can't, that we can't fight this, you know, whatever this thing is, or that, like the idea that diversity is a thing that's causing our downfall. Like the di diversity is a thing that makes us. Strong and unique and, you know, special. Um, and to downplay that or to make that the enemy is so misguided and really preying on people's fears. Um,

that's

it. And it's working. It's working and it's, it's sad.

That's it. It's, you hit it, my sister, you hit it right on the head, divide and conquer. Okay. If we can divide them, we can conquer them. And you push narratives out there, that's not true. But what you are really doing is you are tapping into people's fears. And when people are afraid, they're not thinking rationally. They'll believe anything. Right? Yeah. But let me just ask you this final thoughts. What's the final thoughts that you wanna leave the

audience today, YEEuriee? Oh, big question.

Um. I think I, I, I do think that if we truly listen to each other, and I think that if these stories, these very human universal story, like it's crazy how specific, no matter how specific you are, like that actually resonates more in some ways than this kind of, these broad generalizations. But, um, I think if we really did listen, like we could move forward for all people and not just for individuals. Um, I think I just, I saw a video clip the other day of a guy, an older gentleman who went to testify against trans. Some, you know, uh, some, he was supposed to go and vote for support on a trans anti-trans bill. And he said, I've been sitting here for an hour listening to these people talk about their experiences. And he is like, they've changed my mind. You know, and he was, he was an older white gentleman who, you know, who came in one way and basically spoke into the microphone and said, I listening here has changed my mind. Mm-hmm. And I think that truly that's why I'm drawn to storytelling is that if you really do sit and listen to other people and other points of view, I feel like there's, there's potential there. And we shouldn't downplay it as, as, it's hard, it's easy to be cynical in these times. It's easy to be very, you know, resigned to, we have, you know, this side and this side, and we're never gonna come together. I, I don't, I don't know what it's gonna take, but I do think that it will have to involve listening. Um, I don't know any other way that we're gonna move forward.

I totally agree. My friend. Final question. How can A Black Executive Perspective podcast help you? I.

Yeah. Uh, I mean, thank you for having me again. Uh, it's a great conversation. Um, yeah, I mean, watch, watch films, watch films that aren't about people who look like you. Uh, Third Act film.com is our website. We have festivals going on. Uh, you know, throughout this year. We won't be on PBS until probably next year, 2026, but if you follow us or sign up for our newsletter, you can find out when the film will be, uh, near you or on your tv. Um, but yeah, I, I think. Honestly, just having me on, having the experience of sharing with you, talking with you, um, being able to talk about the film. It's been a great gift and I appreciate the time and being able to be here with you.

Well, we appreciate you investing the time, idea, busy schedule to come on and share. And that is Third Act.com, is that correct?

Uh, Third Act film.com.

Third Act film.com. Make sure you check out Third Act act film.com. See all these fantastic stories, educate yourself and more importantly, you know, share with others as

well. So, YEEuriee Chung, thanks

for coming on A Black Executive Perspective podcast. We really enjoyed this. I want you to stay right there. I think it's now time for Tony's tidbit and so the tidbit today. Marginalized voices don't need permission to be heard. They need platforms, resources, and the will to make it happen. If history has taught us anything, it is that the fight for justice is never over. It just takes on new forms. You heard a lot of that today with my conversation with Eurie Chung, and please don't forget to check out the next need to know by Dr. Nsenga Burton. Dr. Burton dives into the timely and crucial topics that shape our community and world you want. Don't wanna miss her insights and deepen your understanding on the issues. Check her out. Next Thursday on Need To Know by Dr. Nsenga And then also, don't forget to check out the next pull up. Speak up where you'll hear bold, unfiltered voices tackle the round, the provocative issues. Our round table provides sharp perspectives, real talk, and a call to action. This is not a conversation, it's a revolution. So make sure you do not miss the next episode of Pull Up. Speak up. So now it's time for BP's call to action. And for our, our AVID listeners, you know what our goal is, but this is your first time watching A Black Executive Perspective podcast or listening. Our goal is to decrease, eliminate. All forms of discrimination and how to do that. We've come up with an acronym called less. LESS and L stands for learn. You wanna learn about different racial and culture nuances to educate yourself. Then after you learn, you have the letter E, which stands for empathy. Now, since you've learned about new people and new cultures, now you can understand their point of view, because now you can put yourself in their shoes. And then after empathy, you have the first S, which is share. Now you want to share what you've learned to your friends and colleagues so they can become enlightened as well. And then the final S. It stop. You want to stop discrimination as it walks in your path. So if Aunt Jenny or Uncle Joe says something at the Sunday dinner table that's inappropriate, you say, aunt Jenny, uncle Joe, we don't believe that. We don't say that. And you stop it right there. So if everyone can incorporate less. LESS will build a more fair, more understanding world, and we all will be able to see the change that we wanna see because less will become more. Don't forget to follow A Black Executive Perspective on YouTube, apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast. And you can follow us on our social channels of LinkedIn, X, YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok at a black exec. For our fabulous guest, the award-winning producer, director, Eurie Chung. I'm Tony Tidbit. We talked about it today. We learned about it today. We love you, and now it's time for us to get out

A Black Executive Perspective.